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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The first local election night of the Corbyn era with two L

SystemSystem Posts: 3,967
edited September 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The first local election night of the Corbyn era with two LAB defences in London

Noel Park (Lab defence) and Woodside (Lab defence) on Haringey
Result of council at last election (2014): Labour 48, Liberal Democrats 9 (Labour majority of 39)
Result of ward at last election (2014) : Emboldened denotes elected

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • First?
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Second.
  • Terzo. The Ayr East and Bourn seats look quite interesting this week.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,057
    Number four ;(
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,057
    FPT
    MikeK said:

    GoodnightVienna ‏@CallingEngland 21m21 minutes ago
    #Farage: 'Angela Merkel is the only person I've met who is even more miserable in private than she is in public.' :) #UKIP

    That's because she never had the pleasure of going on a motorcycle tour of East Germany with Jeremy Corbyn.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Boring by-election night.
  • Check this article from Liverpool University. Calm analysis of the Corbyn factor!

    http://news.liv.ac.uk/2015/09/14/the-liverpool-view-prime-minister-jeremy-corbyn/

    Remarkably measured IMO!
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 996
    Tim_B said:

    FPT

    MikeK said:

    GoodnightVienna ‏@CallingEngland 21m21 minutes ago
    #Farage: 'Angela Merkel is the only person I've met who is even more miserable in private than she is in public.' :) #UKIP

    That's because she never had the pleasure of going on a motorcycle tour of East Germany with Jeremy Corbyn.
    And nearly as bad as touring the diesel decks with Rimmer.
  • And this one, which certainly highlights some of the challenges facing Jeremy Corbyn and passes over the ineptness which has characterised his first few days.

    http://news.liv.ac.uk/2015/09/14/the-liverpool-view-jeremy-corbyn-the-communicator/
  • Bobby Sol and Lamela - nearly £60m of Bale money.

    Corbynomics.

    Cor-byn-u-spurs
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 9,131
    Today I have been hit by a revelation about #Indyref2 referendi harder

    The No side of the Independence Referendum just past was led by a generation of Scottish Labour politicians that had dominated British politics for over a decade and had been a prominent feature of it for two decades.

    The general election has swept them aside, or at best into the Lords.

    If there is a second referendum then who will lead the no side? Fundamentally all National level Scottish politicians are now SNP politicians. In five years time who will be the heavy weights that stand for the Union?
  • Tim_B said:

    FPT

    MikeK said:

    GoodnightVienna ‏@CallingEngland 21m21 minutes ago
    #Farage: 'Angela Merkel is the only person I've met who is even more miserable in private than she is in public.' :) #UKIP

    That's because she never had the pleasure of going on a motorcycle tour of East Germany with Jeremy Corbyn.
    No she had to dodge out of their way whilst she crossed the road...
  • Alistair said:

    Today I have been hit by a revelation about #Indyref2 referendi harder

    The No side of the Independence Referendum just past was led by a generation of Scottish Labour politicians that had dominated British politics for over a decade and had been a prominent feature of it for two decades.

    The general election has swept them aside, or at best into the Lords.

    If there is a second referendum then who will lead the no side? Fundamentally all National level Scottish politicians are now SNP politicians. In five years time who will be the heavy weights that stand for the Union?

    Very true and with the Labour party suffering from its internal pressures south of the border, they are in an even worse place. I wish that the Union can be maintained. I truly think that we are better together, but do worry that there may be a tide running... Of course, the SNP canno just call a (binding) referendum whenever they like and also the electorate may not like being constantly asked...

    We shall see!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 34,492
    @paulwaugh: Anneliese Midgley, former Unite head of pol strategy, is now Jeremy Corbyn's deputy chief of staff. More roles due http://t.co/wGJIwp8cXR
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 18,458
    edited September 2015
    Thanks Harry.

    Bourn's my ward. The independent situation back in 2014 can be overstated: one was a local campaigner against housing development, who the Conservatives selected (and who annoyingly won) in this year's locals. The other was a friend of a local character and good guy, who had once served on the council. Both had some significant friends or campaigns behind them back in 2014.

    If anyone wants to know, I voted Lib Dem. I nearly did not, as there was a Lib Dem canvasser outside the station who was sporting the most hideous yellow socks. ;)

    We had two Conservative leaflets through the door (one fairly large format), one Lib Dem, and one UKIP. Nothing from Labour and the Greens. If they can't be bothered to leaflet us, I cannot be bothered to vote for them.

    There was also some good contact with several of the candidates on the local messageboards.

    I'd expect the Conservatives to win, with the Lib Dems a close second.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,241
    Alistair said:

    Today I have been hit by a revelation about #Indyref2 referendi harder

    The No side of the Independence Referendum just past was led by a generation of Scottish Labour politicians that had dominated British politics for over a decade and had been a prominent feature of it for two decades.

    The general election has swept them aside, or at best into the Lords.

    If there is a second referendum then who will lead the no side? Fundamentally all National level Scottish politicians are now SNP politicians. In five years time who will be the heavy weights that stand for the Union?

    you actually think the SNP has heavyweights ? ( salmond aside )

    Scotland is like Labour - full of shit MPs who couldnt carry a sprig of heather let alone an argument.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,057
    Corey Lewandowski, Trump's campaign manager, said he doesn't speak for Trump. Only Trump speaks for Trump.

    You know it.

    I sense the coverage of Trump is changing. Today it has been his criticism of Fiorina and Jeb's wife that is up front. Up until now it has been broadly positive. Today it isn't.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,033
    Can't imagine that Mr Corbyn's recent election to Labour leader will have any impact on local elections, at least not yet.

    However, it's certainly had a remarkable impact on me. I've done something today I couldn't have begun to envisage only a week ago: taken out a subscription to D Telegraph (online).

    Labour-Uncut & Labourlist have been my websites of choice (after PB!) for some years now. But I'm sick of seeing long-term loyal Labour members, whom I know to be quite a long way to the left of my own views, being dubbed Tories & told to get out.

    Demonstrably, the present Labour party wouldn't touch a mild-left-wing person like me with a barge-pole; they'd be insulted by a vote as impure as mine.

    "Owes more to Methodism than Marxism"? Not this lot. I'm not much of a one for ill-wishing anyone or any organisation; but (sorry, @NickPalmer) I hope this lot crash & burn. They don't know what they're throwing down the drain.

  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,216
    I occasionally notice posts from the Jezlamists that the PBTories 'hate' Jez. I don't think I've read a hateful post from a Tory here about Jez; I don't think anyone hates him, like they may have Brown, they just don't agree with him at all. Personally I find him mirthful.
  • Alistair said:

    Today I have been hit by a revelation about #Indyref2 referendi harder

    The No side of the Independence Referendum just past was led by a generation of Scottish Labour politicians that had dominated British politics for over a decade and had been a prominent feature of it for two decades.

    The general election has swept them aside, or at best into the Lords.

    If there is a second referendum then who will lead the no side? Fundamentally all National level Scottish politicians are now SNP politicians. In five years time who will be the heavy weights that stand for the Union?

    Fwiw certainly not Darling.

    'If it happens, someone else would be leading it – I’ve moved on from that. It’s something I strongly, strongly believe in and I would play my part, but I did that two-and-half-year campaign and the banking crisis. I think that’s more than enough for one political life.'

    http://tinyurl.com/q26xwx7

    It's nice that he's moved on.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 2,805
    Alistair said:

    Today I have been hit by a revelation about #Indyref2 referendi harder

    The No side of the Independence Referendum just past was led by a generation of Scottish Labour politicians that had dominated British politics for over a decade and had been a prominent feature of it for two decades.

    The general election has swept them aside, or at best into the Lords.

    If there is a second referendum then who will lead the no side? Fundamentally all National level Scottish politicians are now SNP politicians. In five years time who will be the heavy weights that stand for the Union?

    Well, David Cameron and the European Commission also played some role.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,095

    I occasionally notice posts from the Jezlamists that the PBTories 'hate' Jez. I don't think I've read a hateful post from a Tory here about Jez; I don't think anyone hates him, like they may have Brown, they just don't agree with him at all. Personally I find him mirthful.

    Don't hate him. Find some of his views deeply distasteful, but he strikes me more like a Norman Wisdom character, who by weird circumstance ends up in an operating theatre as the team around him look expectantly for him to commence the brain surgery. "Mister Grimsdale, there's been a bit of a mix-up..."

    He is passed a scalpel.

    He gulps....
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 20,277
    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.
  • The union is dead is when not if it ends... English politicians need to wake up and ensure the split is on English terms.
  • I occasionally notice posts from the Jezlamists that the PBTories 'hate' Jez. I don't think I've read a hateful post from a Tory here about Jez; I don't think anyone hates him, like they may have Brown, they just don't agree with him at all. Personally I find him mirthful.

    Spot on
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 8,879
    FT has something on Corbyn means to stay in Europe to impose a Torbin Tax on The City. Can't read details.
  • SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 9,131
    EPG said:

    Alistair said:

    Today I have been hit by a revelation about #Indyref2 referendi harder

    The No side of the Independence Referendum just past was led by a generation of Scottish Labour politicians that had dominated British politics for over a decade and had been a prominent feature of it for two decades.

    The general election has swept them aside, or at best into the Lords.

    If there is a second referendum then who will lead the no side? Fundamentally all National level Scottish politicians are now SNP politicians. In five years time who will be the heavy weights that stand for the Union?

    Well, David Cameron and the European Commission also played some role.
    David Cameron, like the sensible politician he is, made sure he featured as little as physically possible in the IndyRef campaign.
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 853
    Saw a good point on People's Quantitative Easing and EU membership in The Guardian comments section... think it has been discussed here before. Isn't it true that PQE is banned under the EU treaties? Doesn't that basically mean Corbyn has no economic policy..? Absolute utter shambles if true.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 9,131

    Alistair said:

    Today I have been hit by a revelation about #Indyref2 referendi harder

    The No side of the Independence Referendum just past was led by a generation of Scottish Labour politicians that had dominated British politics for over a decade and had been a prominent feature of it for two decades.

    The general election has swept them aside, or at best into the Lords.

    If there is a second referendum then who will lead the no side? Fundamentally all National level Scottish politicians are now SNP politicians. In five years time who will be the heavy weights that stand for the Union?

    you actually think the SNP has heavyweights ?
    No particularly, but they do have Sturgeon - who remains the most popular politician in Scotland. Who will stand opposite her on the debate platform?
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 20,277

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
    "a bit crazy".

    Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?

    I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.

  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,246
    AnneJGP said:

    Can't imagine that Mr Corbyn's recent election to Labour leader will have any impact on local elections, at least not yet.

    However, it's certainly had a remarkable impact on me. I've done something today I couldn't have begun to envisage only a week ago: taken out a subscription to D Telegraph (online).

    Labour-Uncut & Labourlist have been my websites of choice (after PB!) for some years now. But I'm sick of seeing long-term loyal Labour members, whom I know to be quite a long way to the left of my own views, being dubbed Tories & told to get out.

    Demonstrably, the present Labour party wouldn't touch a mild-left-wing person like me with a barge-pole; they'd be insulted by a vote as impure as mine.

    "Owes more to Methodism than Marxism"? Not this lot. I'm not much of a one for ill-wishing anyone or any organisation; but (sorry, @NickPalmer) I hope this lot crash & burn. They don't know what they're throwing down the drain.

    Honestly Anne, I think you'd have more leverage if you joined the Conservatives and tried to steer them leftwards. As currently constituted, the Labour party is almost certain to elect left wing successors to Corbyn.

    Other commentators have already pointed it out - the Tories should be sprawling all over the centre ground and killing soft left supporters with kindness.

    The counter argument is that without an effective and credible opposition, there will be a tendency for the administration to drift right, and I think that will be counter-productive in the medium term.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 6,817
    Dr Hannah fry,watching her BBC 4 - beauty and brains ;-)
  • SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
    "a bit crazy".

    Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?

    I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.

    Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.

    But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    edited September 2015
    So rapists deserve longer sentences for attacking brown children rather than white children? I find the increasing anti-white racism at the heart of the state very concerning.
  • Pauly said:

    Saw a good point on People's Quantitative Easing and EU membership in The Guardian comments section... think it has been discussed here before. Isn't it true that PQE is banned under the EU treaties? Doesn't that basically mean Corbyn has no economic policy..? Absolute utter shambles if true.

    ''As for “people’s QE”, forcing the Bank to buy the bonds issued by a new national investment bank, which I touched on a couple of weeks ago, not only would this put an end to the most successful economic policy innovation of the past two decades – central bank independence – but it is entirely unnecessary.
    If a future government wants to increase infrastructure spending it can do so. If it did so through a new investment bank, that would also increase spending and debt. But if the new bank was soundly-based, and its bonds guaranteed by the government, financial institutions would queue up to buy them. If, in a subsequent downturn, the monetary policy committee did more QE, it could buy some of these bonds if it chose to do so.
    Forcing the Bank to be the exclusive buyer of such bonds in all circumstances, suggests that they would be too dodgy for investors and leave the Bank saddled in way that would risk insolvency (requiring the government to step in and prop it up). Leaving the QE tap permanently turned on would mean higher inflation and interest rates. This is a policy whose time should never come.''
    http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/002119.html#more
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 20,277

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
    "a bit crazy".

    Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?

    I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.

    Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.

    But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
    The report is quite explicit.

    "The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.

    She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."

    Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 2,805
    John_M said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Can't imagine that Mr Corbyn's recent election to Labour leader will have any impact on local elections, at least not yet.

    However, it's certainly had a remarkable impact on me. I've done something today I couldn't have begun to envisage only a week ago: taken out a subscription to D Telegraph (online).

    Labour-Uncut & Labourlist have been my websites of choice (after PB!) for some years now. But I'm sick of seeing long-term loyal Labour members, whom I know to be quite a long way to the left of my own views, being dubbed Tories & told to get out.

    Demonstrably, the present Labour party wouldn't touch a mild-left-wing person like me with a barge-pole; they'd be insulted by a vote as impure as mine.

    "Owes more to Methodism than Marxism"? Not this lot. I'm not much of a one for ill-wishing anyone or any organisation; but (sorry, @NickPalmer) I hope this lot crash & burn. They don't know what they're throwing down the drain.

    Honestly Anne, I think you'd have more leverage if you joined the Conservatives and tried to steer them leftwards. As currently constituted, the Labour party is almost certain to elect left wing successors to Corbyn.

    Other commentators have already pointed it out - the Tories should be sprawling all over the centre ground and killing soft left supporters with kindness.

    The counter argument is that without an effective and credible opposition, there will be a tendency for the administration to drift right, and I think that will be counter-productive in the medium term.
    Not everyone can join the Conservatives. They will always be constrained to be a certain degree of right-wing by their donors, in the same way that Labour will always be constrained to be a certain degree of left-wing by their donors (a constraint that is not currently binding). If you believe that the financial sector or industrialists or top professionals should be taxed more, the Conservatives are not for you.
  • I occasionally notice posts from the Jezlamists that the PBTories 'hate' Jez. I don't think I've read a hateful post from a Tory here about Jez; I don't think anyone hates him, like they may have Brown, they just don't agree with him at all. Personally I find him mirthful.

    I agree to a point but i do think that as time passes the mirth will fade and feelings will start to harden.

    Some of the people he seems to be promoting alongside his frequently mentioned less than pleasant cheer leaders will start to polarise opinions.

    That said in some ways he is a breath of fresh air-an area i don't think people have considered enough is the impact he will have on the next Conservative leader. Osborne will look even more like the consummate politician from the Westminster bubble. An outsider will look even more appealing.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 5,364
    Love the tweet with Abbott being put in her place by a new MP.

    Have there been any further "Corbygaffes" since 6pm?
  • JEO said:

    So rapists deserve longer sentences for attacking brown children rather than white children? I find the increasing anti-white racism at the heart of the state very concerning.

    To make matter worse, it sounds as though it is because of the misogyny in some parts of these cultures. This judgement therefore reinforces that misogyny.

    People who think an abused child is somehow less valuable, or has somehow been 'shamed', are, frankly, asshats who should not have children.
  • SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
    "a bit crazy".

    Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?

    I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.

    Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.

    But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
    The report is quite explicit.

    "The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.

    She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."

    Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
    That's where "hate crimes" end up.

    As opposed to all those crimes motivated by altruism and love.
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 853

    Pauly said:

    Saw a good point on People's Quantitative Easing and EU membership in The Guardian comments section... think it has been discussed here before. Isn't it true that PQE is banned under the EU treaties? Doesn't that basically mean Corbyn has no economic policy..? Absolute utter shambles if true.

    ''As for “people’s QE”, forcing the Bank to buy the bonds issued by a new national investment bank, which I touched on a couple of weeks ago, not only would this put an end to the most successful economic policy innovation of the past two decades – central bank independence – but it is entirely unnecessary.
    If a future government wants to increase infrastructure spending it can do so. If it did so through a new investment bank, that would also increase spending and debt. But if the new bank was soundly-based, and its bonds guaranteed by the government, financial institutions would queue up to buy them. If, in a subsequent downturn, the monetary policy committee did more QE, it could buy some of these bonds if it chose to do so.
    Forcing the Bank to be the exclusive buyer of such bonds in all circumstances, suggests that they would be too dodgy for investors and leave the Bank saddled in way that would risk insolvency (requiring the government to step in and prop it up). Leaving the QE tap permanently turned on would mean higher inflation and interest rates. This is a policy whose time should never come.''
    http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/002119.html#more
    Fair enough, an economic counter-argument but lefties have been ignoring them for years. If there is a clear EU treaty violation though, that is more likely to convince people like Nick Palmer. It does seem to be a violation and hence his main 'new' policy idea is not even feasible. It is an insult to the electorate if he tries to peddle this until May 2016.
  • SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
    "a bit crazy".

    Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?

    I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.

    Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.

    But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
    The report is quite explicit.

    "The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.

    She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."

    Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
    Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.

    I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"
  • EPGEPG Posts: 2,805

    JEO said:

    So rapists deserve longer sentences for attacking brown children rather than white children? I find the increasing anti-white racism at the heart of the state very concerning.

    To make matter worse, it sounds as though it is because of the misogyny in some parts of these cultures. This judgement therefore reinforces that misogyny.

    People who think an abused child is somehow less valuable, or has somehow been 'shamed', are, frankly, asshats who should not have children.
    What if the person is the abused child? It's a common impact on victims' lives, isn't it?
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Rcs1000's point about a shortage of Muslim brides in Europe isn't thought through. These male migrants will just bring in brides from abroad who will be suitably religious and submissive. Thats what many Muslims in the UK already do. And our immigration system is stupid enough to accommodate such a practice while we cut skilled worker visas.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 20,277

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
    "a bit crazy".

    Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?

    I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.

    Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.

    But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
    The report is quite explicit.

    "The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.

    She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."

    Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
    That's where "hate crimes" end up.

    As opposed to all those crimes motivated by altruism and love.
    I might convert to Islam, now. And try and pretend I'm Asian. At least then my daughters might get the full protection of law, and maximum deterrence against child rapists, rather than the second class "whitey" law that has now been brought in, for the specific and lesser crime of raping white children.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,246
    EPG said:

    John_M said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Can't imagine that Mr Corbyn's recent election to Labour leader will have any impact on local elections, at least not yet.

    However, it's certainly had a remarkable impact on me. I've done something today I couldn't have begun to envisage only a week ago: taken out a subscription to D Telegraph (online).

    Labour-Uncut & Labourlist have been my websites of choice (after PB!) for some years now. But I'm sick of seeing long-term loyal Labour members, whom I know to be quite a long way to the left of my own views, being dubbed Tories & told to get out.

    Demonstrably, the present Labour party wouldn't touch a mild-left-wing person like me with a barge-pole; they'd be insulted by a vote as impure as mine.

    "Owes more to Methodism than Marxism"? Not this lot. I'm not much of a one for ill-wishing anyone or any organisation; but (sorry, @NickPalmer) I hope this lot crash & burn. They don't know what they're throwing down the drain.

    Honestly Anne, I think you'd have more leverage if you joined the Conservatives and tried to steer them leftwards. As currently constituted, the Labour party is almost certain to elect left wing successors to Corbyn.

    Other commentators have already pointed it out - the Tories should be sprawling all over the centre ground and killing soft left supporters with kindness.

    The counter argument is that without an effective and credible opposition, there will be a tendency for the administration to drift right, and I think that will be counter-productive in the medium term.
    Not everyone can join the Conservatives. They will always be constrained to be a certain degree of right-wing by their donors, in the same way that Labour will always be constrained to be a certain degree of left-wing by their donors (a constraint that is not currently binding). If you believe that the financial sector or industrialists or top professionals should be taxed more, the Conservatives are not for you.
    That's a fair point, but I'm invoking the POWER OF ANECDOTE to argue that many right thinking right-of-centre people (e.g. yours truly) are fiscally dry but socially sopping wet. I want sound finances and a strong economy while prioritising care for the sick, disabled and the mentally ill (and by prioritising, I mean over pensioners - or at least the wealthy ones).

    I would imagine that would be palatable across the a wide range of the political spectrum.
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 853
    edited September 2015

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
    "a bit crazy".

    Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?

    I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.

    Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.

    But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
    The report is quite explicit.

    "The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.

    She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."

    Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
    Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.

    I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"
    Maybe I'm an exception but I feel the motive is irrelevant, rather the unlawful action and it's consequences.
  • Pauly said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
    "a bit crazy".

    Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?

    I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.

    Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.

    But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
    The report is quite explicit.

    "The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.

    She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."

    Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
    Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.

    I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"
    Maybe I'm an exception but I feel the motive is irrelevant, rather the unlawful action and it's consequences.
    That's why I said I'm not a fan of such things.
  • BT broadband and BT sport. A match made in hell.

    Missed the whole of the second half trying to get the fdecking site working.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    JEO said:

    So rapists deserve longer sentences for attacking brown children rather than white children? I find the increasing anti-white racism at the heart of the state very concerning.

    To make matter worse, it sounds as though it is because of the misogyny in some parts of these cultures. This judgement therefore reinforces that misogyny.

    People who think an abused child is somehow less valuable, or has somehow been 'shamed', are, frankly, asshats who should not have children.
    I'm sure the new shadow minister for preventing it abuse will sort it out. Its not like she was involved deeply in Labour Rotherham politics when the abuse was going on and never said anything.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 34,492
    @tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
    http://t.co/cUBxZbB6qb
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 20,277

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
    "a bit crazy".


    Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.

    But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
    The report is quite explicit.

    "The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.

    She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."

    Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
    Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.

    I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"
    Hate crimes are a stupid concept. But here the stupidity has been taken to a celestial new level, a truly WTF moment: which makes a mockery of English law, in toto.
  • @tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
    http://www.sunnation.co.uk/depressed-labour-mps-in-talks-to-defect-to-the-tories
  • EPG said:

    JEO said:

    So rapists deserve longer sentences for attacking brown children rather than white children? I find the increasing anti-white racism at the heart of the state very concerning.

    To make matter worse, it sounds as though it is because of the misogyny in some parts of these cultures. This judgement therefore reinforces that misogyny.

    People who think an abused child is somehow less valuable, or has somehow been 'shamed', are, frankly, asshats who should not have children.
    What if the person is the abused child? It's a common impact on victims' lives, isn't it?
    Yes. I was referring to people who have children who have been abused, not the victims themselves.

    Also note: "There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."

    Children as chattels.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
    http://t.co/cUBxZbB6qb

    I hope they resign and fight a by-election. That is the noble thing to do these days.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 34,492
    @nickeardley: #bbcqt a must watch. 2 apologies from @johnmcdonnellMP, more on Labour's policy on Nato membership & more on the national anthem
  • SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.

    I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.

    Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.

    But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
    The report is quite explicit.

    "The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.

    She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."

    Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
    Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.

    I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"
    Obviously, I don't want anyone assaulted for their racial origin, and those who do should be heavily punished, but I disagree.

    What about the boy who's autistic, or who suffers from tourettes, or who's dressed by his parents in poor and crap clothes, or has ginger hair, or has an out-of-town accent, or is just a bit of a loner, or who is cross-eyed and a bit shy?

    These are all crimes motivated by 'hate' on nothing more than the visual appearance of the victim or circumstances beyond his control.

    It is not confined to race and the sorts of people who launch such assaults are very similar to those who launch assaults on any of the above.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 20,007

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
    "a bit crazy".

    Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?

    I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.

    Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.

    But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
    The report is quite explicit.

    "The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.

    She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."

    Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
    Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.

    I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"
    In principle, I'm not sure why the assailant should get a longer sentence for the one assault, rather than the other.
  • SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
    "a bit crazy".


    Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.

    But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
    The report is quite explicit.

    "The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.

    She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."

    Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
    Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.

    I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"
    Hate crimes are a stupid concept. But here the stupidity has been taken to a celestial new level, a truly WTF moment: which makes a mockery of English law, in toto.
    It is like equality laws.

    When I go for a job I want to be hired because I'm the most qualified and suitable person for the job not because of the colour of my skin.

    That's only going to stoke up resentment.
  • SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
    "a bit crazy".

    Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?

    I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.

    Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.

    But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
    The report is quite explicit.

    "The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.

    She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."

    Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
    That's where "hate crimes" end up.

    As opposed to all those crimes motivated by altruism and love.
    I might convert to Islam, now. And try and pretend I'm Asian. At least then my daughters might get the full protection of law, and maximum deterrence against child rapists, rather than the second class "whitey" law that has now been brought in, for the specific and lesser crime of raping white children.
    The most discriminated against group by the authorities are poor white British children, IMHO.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 20,007
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
    "a bit crazy".

    Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?

    I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.

    Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.

    But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
    The report is quite explicit.

    "The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.

    She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."

    Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
    That does seem to an unfortunate implication.
  • SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
    "a bit crazy".

    Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?

    I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.

    Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.

    But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
    The report is quite explicit.

    "The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.

    She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."

    Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
    That's where "hate crimes" end up.

    As opposed to all those crimes motivated by altruism and love.
    I might convert to Islam, now. And try and pretend I'm Asian. At least then my daughters might get the full protection of law, and maximum deterrence against child rapists, rather than the second class "whitey" law that has now been brought in, for the specific and lesser crime of raping white children.
    The most discriminated against group by the authorities are poor white British children, IMHO.
    You might be able to add 'male' to that.
  • isamisam Posts: 24,352
    edited September 2015

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
    "a bit crazy".

    Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?

    I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.

    Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.

    But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
    The report is quite explicit.

    "The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.

    She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."

    Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
    Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.

    I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"
    The paedophiles name was Jamal Muhammed Raheem Ul Nasir
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,033

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
    "a bit crazy".

    Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?

    I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.

    Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.

    But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
    The report is quite explicit.

    "The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.

    She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."

    Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
    Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.

    I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"
    I ask from a position of ignorance, @TSE, but would that still be the case if the person assaulting you & insulting you was also Pakistani?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 8,879
    edited September 2015
    McDonnell has his someone's fucked the bride moment.

    Dinnae worry he's apologised on QT for those IRA remarks.

  • AnneJGP said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
    "a bit crazy".

    Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?

    I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.

    Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.

    But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
    The report is quite explicit.

    "The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.

    She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."

    Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
    Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.

    I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"
    I ask from a position of ignorance, @TSE, but would that still be the case if the person assaulting you & insulting you was also Pakistani?
    I wouldn't have thought so, it would depend on the precise circumstances.
  • Not only is PQE contrary to EU regulations but so is re-nationalisation as far as I understand
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 22,864
    edited September 2015

    @tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
    http://www.sunnation.co.uk/depressed-labour-mps-in-talks-to-defect-to-the-tories

    I don't want the election of Corbyn to tack the Conservative Party to the Left.

    I think JEO put it very well the other day: the Conservatives should stay where they are, and pursue the manifesto and principles they believe in.

    When a sensible Labour leader is (eventually) elected, they will have that much further to travel to meet them to regain power. So, if they want to reshape the British political landscape, it's in the Conservatives interests to pull the middle-ground as close to the Right as possible.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,033
    John_M said:

    EPG said:

    John_M said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Can't imagine that Mr Corbyn's recent election to Labour leader will have any impact on local elections, at least not yet.

    However, it's certainly had a remarkable impact on me. I've done something today I couldn't have begun to envisage only a week ago: taken out a subscription to D Telegraph (online).

    Labour-Uncut & Labourlist have been my websites of choice (after PB!) for some years now. But I'm sick of seeing long-term loyal Labour members, whom I know to be quite a long way to the left of my own views, being dubbed Tories & told to get out.

    Demonstrably, the present Labour party wouldn't touch a mild-left-wing person like me with a barge-pole; they'd be insulted by a vote as impure as mine.

    "Owes more to Methodism than Marxism"? Not this lot. I'm not much of a one for ill-wishing anyone or any organisation; but (sorry, @NickPalmer) I hope this lot crash & burn. They don't know what they're throwing down the drain.

    Honestly Anne, I think you'd have more leverage if you joined the Conservatives and tried to steer them leftwards. As currently constituted, the Labour party is almost certain to elect left wing successors to Corbyn.

    Other commentators have already pointed it out - the Tories should be sprawling all over the centre ground and killing soft left supporters with kindness.

    The counter argument is that without an effective and credible opposition, there will be a tendency for the administration to drift right, and I think that will be counter-productive in the medium term.
    Not everyone can join the Conservatives. They will always be constrained to be a certain degree of right-wing by their donors, in the same way that Labour will always be constrained to be a certain degree of left-wing by their donors (a constraint that is not currently binding). If you believe that the financial sector or industrialists or top professionals should be taxed more, the Conservatives are not for you.
    That's a fair point, but I'm invoking the POWER OF ANECDOTE to argue that many right thinking right-of-centre people (e.g. yours truly) are fiscally dry but socially sopping wet. I want sound finances and a strong economy while prioritising care for the sick, disabled and the mentally ill (and by prioritising, I mean over pensioners - or at least the wealthy ones).

    I would imagine that would be palatable across the a wide range of the political spectrum.
    I want sound finances and a strong economy while prioritising care for the sick, disabled and the mentally ill (and by prioritising, I mean over pensioners - or at least the wealthy ones).

    Quite a close approximation to my own position.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 62,039
    edited September 2015

    @tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
    http://www.sunnation.co.uk/depressed-labour-mps-in-talks-to-defect-to-the-tories

    I don't want the election of Corbyn to tack the Conservative Party to the Left.

    I think JEO put it very well the other day: the Conservatives should stay where they are, and pursue the manifesto and principles they believe in.

    When a sensible Labour leader is (eventually) elected, they will have that much further to travel to meet them to regain power. So, if they want to reshape the British political landscape, it's in the Conservatives interests to pull the middle-ground as close to the Right as possible.
    I've said it too, I think the Tories should stick on the centre/one-nation ground that they currently occupy.

    It is so successful that they can win a majority with UKIP polling 13%
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 853

    @tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
    http://www.sunnation.co.uk/depressed-labour-mps-in-talks-to-defect-to-the-tories

    I don't want the election of Corbyn to tack the Conservative Party to the Left.

    I think JEO put it very well the other day: the Conservatives should stay where they are, and pursue the manifesto and principles they believe in.

    When a sensible Labour leader is (eventually) elected, they will have that much further to travel to meet them to regain power. So, if they want to reshape the British political landscape, it's in the Conservatives interests to pull the middle-ground as close to the Right as possible.
    Yes, but it's in the country's interest to make UKIP the opposition party - and pull the country to right. Keep damaging left-wing economics out of office for a decade or two.
  • isamisam Posts: 24,352
    "Now we are seeing the growth of positive forces acting against integration, of vested interests in the preservation and sharpening of racial and religious differences, with a view to the exercise of actual domination, first over fellow-immigrants and then over the rest of the population.

    For these dangerous and divisive elements the legislation proposed in the Race Relations Bill is the very pabulum they need to flourish. Here is the means of showing that the immigrant communities can organise to consolidate their members, to agitate and campaign against their fellow citizens, and to overawe and dominate the rest with the legal weapons which the ignorant and the ill-informed have provided. As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood."
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 20,870
    edited September 2015

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
    "a bit crazy".

    Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?

    I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.

    Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.

    But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
    The report is quite explicit.

    "The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.

    She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."

    Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
    Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.

    I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"
    The fact that someone gets a longer sentence for assaulting a particular type of person is the most fuckwitted, fucked-up, ridiculous piece of law in the history of the universe, and it needs to be reversed as soon as possible by people with some brain cells.

    If everyone is equal before the law, that needs to be reflected in sentencing.
  • Not only is PQE contrary to EU regulations but so is re-nationalisation as far as I understand

    Worse, hasn't McDonnell said in the past he favours renationalisation without compensation?
  • @tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
    http://www.sunnation.co.uk/depressed-labour-mps-in-talks-to-defect-to-the-tories

    Isn’t there a help-line for these poor "depressed Labour MPs"? – something should be done..
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 853
    edited September 2015
    "The fact that someone gets a longer sentence for assaulting a particular type of person is the most fuckwitted, fucked-up, ridiculous piece of law in the history of the universe, and it needs to be reversed as soon as possible by people with some brain cells.

    If everyone is equal before the law, that needs to be reflected in sentencing."


    We should set up our own Tory party but not obsessed with europe and homosexuals and with sensible judiciary policy.
  • Not only is PQE contrary to EU regulations but so is re-nationalisation as far as I understand

    Worse, hasn't McDonnell said in the past he favours renationalisation without compensation?
    I believe so
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 20,870
    "Threat of defections for Corbyn as Labour MPs approach Lib Dems

    Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron says he has been approched by Labour MPs who are unhappy about Jeremy Corbyn's election victory"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11870776/Jeremy-Corbyn-Labour-party-live.html
  • @tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
    http://www.sunnation.co.uk/depressed-labour-mps-in-talks-to-defect-to-the-tories

    Isn’t there a help-line for these poor "depressed Labour MPs"? – something should be done..
    If I had the energy I'd write the morning thread "You know Labour have hit rock bottom when their MPs are contemplating defecting to the Lib Dems"
  • Bloody hell - just look at this. It's clear that a very large number of these men (and they are mainly men) feel a sense of entitlement to walk into Germany unhindered, and are angry these border countries are putting obstacles in their way.

    Serbia, Croatia and Hungary should hold Merkel responsible for this - and send her the bill:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34278213/migrant-crisis-in-pictures-whats-happening-on-the-hungarian-border

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34283152
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 20,007
    isam said:

    "Now we are seeing the growth of positive forces acting against integration, of vested interests in the preservation and sharpening of racial and religious differences, with a view to the exercise of actual domination, first over fellow-immigrants and then over the rest of the population.

    For these dangerous and divisive elements the legislation proposed in the Race Relations Bill is the very pabulum they need to flourish. Here is the means of showing that the immigrant communities can organise to consolidate their members, to agitate and campaign against their fellow citizens, and to overawe and dominate the rest with the legal weapons which the ignorant and the ill-informed have provided. As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood."

    Race relations laws were designed to prevent obviously spiteful behaviour. But, have evolved into preferring some groups over others.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 18,458
    edited September 2015

    Not only is PQE contrary to EU regulations but so is re-nationalisation as far as I understand

    Worse, hasn't McDonnell said in the past he favours renationalisation without compensation?
    I believe so
    I just found this: Cooper criticised Corbyn for the policy:
    The shadow home secretary criticised the Labour leadership favourite’s proposal not to compensate investors in privatised industries returned to state control by a Corbyn-led government, which she said would affect pension funds and market confidence
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/23/yvette-cooper-criticises-jeremy-corbyn-renationalisation-plan
  • isamisam Posts: 24,352

    Bloody hell - just look at this. It's clear that a very large number of these men (and they are mainly men) feel a sense of entitlement to walk into Germany unhindered, and are angry these border countries are putting obstacles in their way.

    Serbia, Croatia and Hungary should hold Merkel responsible for this - and send her the bill:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34278213/migrant-crisis-in-pictures-whats-happening-on-the-hungarian-border

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34283152

    Croatia have banned traffic in the roads because of the incredible number of migrants

    Has anyone ever over estimated the amount of immigration?
  • isamisam Posts: 24,352
    edited September 2015
    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    "Now we are seeing the growth of positive forces acting against integration, of vested interests in the preservation and sharpening of racial and religious differences, with a view to the exercise of actual domination, first over fellow-immigrants and then over the rest of the population.

    For these dangerous and divisive elements the legislation proposed in the Race Relations Bill is the very pabulum they need to flourish. Here is the means of showing that the immigrant communities can organise to consolidate their members, to agitate and campaign against their fellow citizens, and to overawe and dominate the rest with the legal weapons which the ignorant and the ill-informed have provided. As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood."

    Race relations laws were designed to prevent obviously spiteful behaviour. But, have evolved into preferring some groups over others.
    Indeed, that was the entire reason for Powell's Birmingham speech. How right he was
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    There is a lot of money around it seems, with Assem Allam publicly offering Labour MP's bribes to defect, I'm sure MP's will take the money as I'm sure they will politically flop because of the public nature of the bribe.
  • @tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
    http://www.sunnation.co.uk/depressed-labour-mps-in-talks-to-defect-to-the-tories

    I don't want the election of Corbyn to tack the Conservative Party to the Left.

    I think JEO put it very well the other day: the Conservatives should stay where they are, and pursue the manifesto and principles they believe in.

    When a sensible Labour leader is (eventually) elected, they will have that much further to travel to meet them to regain power. So, if they want to reshape the British political landscape, it's in the Conservatives interests to pull the middle-ground as close to the Right as possible.
    I've said it too, I think the Tories should stick on the centre/one-nation ground that they currently occupy.

    It is so successful that they can win a majority with UKIP polling 13%
    Osborne must be very clever: he has both you and me convinced.

    I read a manifesto promising big tax income and inheritance tax cuts, protection of defence spending, immigration controls, EU renegotiation, a reform of human rights law, a repeal of the fox hunting ban, a neo-thatcherite extension of the right to buy, and English votes for English laws.

    It got my vote.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 42,355
    AndyJS said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
    "a bit crazy".

    Are you fecking serious? This is a British court saying Hello pedophiles, if you want to rape anyone, choose white girls, as we will be more lenient. It is a British court saying that white girls are, intrinsically, worth less before the law than Asian girls, as they are less cherished by their community. Because, you know, white girls are just a bit easier, aren't they?

    I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.

    Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.

    But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
    The report is quite explicit.

    "The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.

    She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."

    Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
    Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.

    I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"
    The fact that someone gets a longer sentence for assaulting a particular type of person is the most fuckwitted, fucked-up, ridiculous piece of law in the history of the universe, and it needs to be reversed as soon as possible by people with some brain cells.

    If everyone is equal before the law, that needs to be reflected in sentencing.
    Well said.

    Quite.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    Bloody hell - just look at this. It's clear that a very large number of these men (and they are mainly men) feel a sense of entitlement to walk into Germany unhindered, and are angry these border countries are putting obstacles in their way.

    Serbia, Croatia and Hungary should hold Merkel responsible for this - and send her the bill:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34278213/migrant-crisis-in-pictures-whats-happening-on-the-hungarian-border

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34283152

    I linked an article from the Swedish media where migrants refused to get off the bus in a small town because they insisted on living in a big city with lots of amenities. The entitlement is strong. And when they're not let in they start shouting "Allah akhbar" at the police forces of the Christian countries they demand to be able to access.
  • Pulpstar said:


    AndyJS said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Is there some reason you're not talking about this?

    "Asian child sex victims suffer more than white children, court rules"

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/sep/17/asian-child-sex-victims-suffer-more-than-white-children-court-rules

    I do not easily recall a more stupid, offensive and disturbing ruling from a British judge.

    If as reported, it sounds a bit crazy on the part of the judge. However the article indicates that the new guidelines might have influenced him in his judgement.

    The NSPCC quote seems about spot-on.
    "a bit crazy".



    I've had people on my Twitter timeline saying they've never felt so ashamed to be a lawyer.

    Yep, a bit crazy. I put the qualifier in because I'm always healthily sceptical wrt press reports, especially about court cases.

    But if it makes you happier: "The judge is insane."
    The report is quite explicit.

    "The judge who originally jailed him, Sally Cahill QC, specifically said that the fact the victims were Asian had been factored in as an “aggravating feature” when passing sentence.

    She explained at the time that the victims and their families had suffered particular shame in their communities because of what they had endured. There were also cultural concerns that the girls’ future prospects of being regarded as a good candidate for arranged marriages could be damaged."

    Don't touch the Asian girls! They'll double your sentence. Go for the white sluts. Yeah. Them. Aged 12.
    Whilst I'm not a fan of such things isn't it effectively the same principle as someone who assaults me in the street because I'm of Pakistani heritage gets a longer sentence than someone who attacks you in the street because you're SeanT.

    I mean if we both get the same injuries my assailant should get a longer sentence than yours if he attacked me for being a "Paki"
    The fact that someone gets a longer sentence for assaulting a particular type of person is the most fuckwitted, fucked-up, ridiculous piece of law in the history of the universe, and it needs to be reversed as soon as possible by people with some brain cells.

    If everyone is equal before the law, that needs to be reflected in sentencing.
    Well said.

    Quite.
    Seconded
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 34,492
    @bbclaurak: McDonnell also says it is not Labour policy to leave NATO and upper rate income tax should be 50% #bbcqt at 2235
  • @tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
    http://www.sunnation.co.uk/depressed-labour-mps-in-talks-to-defect-to-the-tories

    I don't want the election of Corbyn to tack the Conservative Party to the Left.

    I think JEO put it very well the other day: the Conservatives should stay where they are, and pursue the manifesto and principles they believe in.

    When a sensible Labour leader is (eventually) elected, they will have that much further to travel to meet them to regain power. So, if they want to reshape the British political landscape, it's in the Conservatives interests to pull the middle-ground as close to the Right as possible.
    I've said it too, I think the Tories should stick on the centre/one-nation ground that they currently occupy.

    It is so successful that they can win a majority with UKIP polling 13%
    Osborne must be very clever: he has both you and me convinced.

    I read a manifesto promising big tax income and inheritance tax cuts, protection of defence spending, immigration controls, EU renegotiation, a reform of human rights law, a repeal of the fox hunting ban, a neo-thatcherite extension of the right to buy, and English votes for English laws.

    It got my vote.
    I reckon that's why it has to be Osborne to replace Dave.
  • JEO said:

    Bloody hell - just look at this. It's clear that a very large number of these men (and they are mainly men) feel a sense of entitlement to walk into Germany unhindered, and are angry these border countries are putting obstacles in their way.

    Serbia, Croatia and Hungary should hold Merkel responsible for this - and send her the bill:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34278213/migrant-crisis-in-pictures-whats-happening-on-the-hungarian-border

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34283152

    I linked an article from the Swedish media where migrants refused to get off the bus in a small town because they insisted on living in a big city with lots of amenities. The entitlement is strong. And when they're not let in they start shouting "Allah akhbar" at the police forces of the Christian countries they demand to be able to access.
    What public opinion there is that is sympathetic to such mass immigration on humanitarian grounds will rapidly shift if and when (unfortunately, probably when) a major terrorist attack occurs in the EU that can be traced to the admission of one or more of such men.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    The 'centre ground' is not a fixed place but a movable destination depending on where thenpolitical parties are currently and have been in recent history. You get to move it by winning elections with a position away from the centre. The more right wing the Tory party is when it wins in 2020 the further right the centre ground will shift.
  • @tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
    http://www.sunnation.co.uk/depressed-labour-mps-in-talks-to-defect-to-the-tories

    I don't want the election of Corbyn to tack the Conservative Party to the Left.

    I think JEO put it very well the other day: the Conservatives should stay where they are, and pursue the manifesto and principles they believe in.

    When a sensible Labour leader is (eventually) elected, they will have that much further to travel to meet them to regain power. So, if they want to reshape the British political landscape, it's in the Conservatives interests to pull the middle-ground as close to the Right as possible.
    I've said it too, I think the Tories should stick on the centre/one-nation ground that they currently occupy.

    It is so successful that they can win a majority with UKIP polling 13%
    Osborne must be very clever: he has both you and me convinced.

    I read a manifesto promising big tax income and inheritance tax cuts, protection of defence spending, immigration controls, EU renegotiation, a reform of human rights law, a repeal of the fox hunting ban, a neo-thatcherite extension of the right to buy, and English votes for English laws.

    It got my vote.
    I reckon that's why it has to be Osborne to replace Dave.
    Yes.

    I should also add that Ed gave me the heebie jeebies.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,246
    edited September 2015
    AnneJGP said:

    John_M said:

    EPG said:

    John_M said:



    Honestly Anne, I think you'd have more leverage if you joined the Conservatives and tried to steer them leftwards. As currently constituted, the Labour party is almost certain to elect left wing successors to Corbyn.

    Other commentators have already pointed it out - the Tories should be sprawling all over the centre ground and killing soft left supporters with kindness.

    The counter argument is that without an effective and credible opposition, there will be a tendency for the administration to drift right, and I think that will be counter-productive in the medium term.

    Not everyone can join the Conservatives. They will always be constrained to be a certain degree of right-wing by their donors, in the same way that Labour will always be constrained to be a certain degree of left-wing by their donors (a constraint that is not currently binding). If you believe that the financial sector or industrialists or top professionals should be taxed more, the Conservatives are not for you.
    That's a fair point, but I'm invoking the POWER OF ANECDOTE to argue that many right thinking right-of-centre people (e.g. yours truly) are fiscally dry but socially sopping wet. I want sound finances and a strong economy while prioritising care for the sick, disabled and the mentally ill (and by prioritising, I mean over pensioners - or at least the wealthy ones).

    I would imagine that would be palatable across the a wide range of the political spectrum.
    I want sound finances and a strong economy while prioritising care for the sick, disabled and the mentally ill (and by prioritising, I mean over pensioners - or at least the wealthy ones).

    Quite a close approximation to my own position.
    Come to the dark side Anne, you know you want to :).

    On that note, goodnight all. Hopefully Europe won't have been consumed by sturm und drang when I wake.
  • John_M said:

    EPG said:

    John_M said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Can't imagine that Mr Corbyn's recent election to Labour leader will have any impact on local elections, at least not yet.

    However, it's certainly had a remarkable impact on me. I've done something today I couldn't have begun to envisage only a week ago: taken out a subscription to D Telegraph (online).

    Labour-Uncut & Labourlist have been my websites of choice (after PB!) for some years now. But I'm sick of seeing long-term loyal Labour members, whom I know to be quite a long way to the left of my own views, being dubbed Tories & told to get out.

    Demonstrably, the present Labour party wouldn't touch a mild-left-wing person like me with a barge-pole; they'd be insulted by a vote as impure as mine.

    "Owes more to Methodism than Marxism"? Not this lot. I'm not much of a one for ill-wishing anyone or any organisation; but (sorry, @NickPalmer) I hope this lot crash & burn. They don't know what they're throwing down the drain.

    Honestly Anne, I think you'd have more leverage if you joined the Conservatives and tried to steer them leftwards. As currently constituted, the Labour party is almost certain to elect left wing successors to Corbyn.

    Other commentators have already pointed it out - the Tories should be sprawling all over the centre ground and killing soft left supporters with kindness.

    The counter argument is that without an effective and credible opposition, there will be a tendency for the administration to drift right, and I think that will be counter-productive in the medium term.
    Not everyone can join the Conservatives. They will always be constrained to be a certain degree of right-wing by their donors, in the same way that Labour will always be constrained to be a certain degree of left-wing by their donors (a constraint that is not currently binding). If you believe that the financial sector or industrialists or top professionals should be taxed more, the Conservatives are not for you.
    That's a fair point, but I'm invoking the POWER OF ANECDOTE to argue that many right thinking right-of-centre people (e.g. yours truly) are fiscally dry but socially sopping wet. I want sound finances and a strong economy while prioritising care for the sick, disabled and the mentally ill (and by prioritising, I mean over pensioners - or at least the wealthy ones).

    I would imagine that would be palatable across the a wide range of the political spectrum.
    I think you are absolutely right John. The trouble is that in the eyes of many on the left that sort of thinking smacks too much of means testing which appears to be one of the new bete noir's amongst socialists - except of course when it allows them to obviously wealthy.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited September 2015
    In relation with the syrian situation:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/16/obama-s-general-just-set-his-isis-war-plan-on-fire.html

    The USA has spent $500 million to train just 4-5 syrians to fight for them according to the commander of the U.S. Central Command, Army Gen. Lloyd Austin.

    That's about 65 million pounds per soldier.
  • @tnewtondunn: EXCL: Senior Tories have begun talks with depressed Labour MPs to try to persuade them to defect;
    http://www.sunnation.co.uk/depressed-labour-mps-in-talks-to-defect-to-the-tories

    I don't want the election of Corbyn to tack the Conservative Party to the Left.

    I think JEO put it very well the other day: the Conservatives should stay where they are, and pursue the manifesto and principles they believe in.

    When a sensible Labour leader is (eventually) elected, they will have that much further to travel to meet them to regain power. So, if they want to reshape the British political landscape, it's in the Conservatives interests to pull the middle-ground as close to the Right as possible.
    I've said it too, I think the Tories should stick on the centre/one-nation ground that they currently occupy.

    It is so successful that they can win a majority with UKIP polling 13%
    Osborne must be very clever: he has both you and me convinced.

    I read a manifesto promising big tax income and inheritance tax cuts, protection of defence spending, immigration controls, EU renegotiation, a reform of human rights law, a repeal of the fox hunting ban, a neo-thatcherite extension of the right to buy, and English votes for English laws.

    It got my vote.
    I reckon that's why it has to be Osborne to replace Dave.
    Yes.

    I should also add that Ed gave me the heebie jeebies.
    So you're more amenable to Ed's replacement? :lol:
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