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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Tory bullying scandal claims the scalp of ex-party chai

SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited November 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Tory bullying scandal claims the scalp of ex-party chairman, Grant Shapps

Until now the ongoing Tory bullying scandal has been largely over-shadowed by the events within LAB. This could possibly change following this afternoon’s resignation from his post as a minister of the party chairman at the General Election last May, Grant Shapps.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    No! This won't make a ha'peth of difference to the Labour civil wars.
  • Blimey beside the ECML?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    It's a very sorry episode, but doesn't change anything in the political weather. It's raining cats and dogs on Labour.
  • FPT
    john_zims said:

    @PClipp

    'I find it very strange that Mr Cameron wants to take us into a complicated war in the Middle East, when he cannot even keep things under control within the Conservative Party itself.'


    Do you think the Lib Dems will save their deposit next week ?

    They got a splendidly massive 0.9% at Rochester & Strood a year ago.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,626
    Needs to run for awhile to take the heat of Labour at present.
  • It's a very sorry episode, but doesn't change anything in the political weather. It's raining cats and dogs on Labour.

    that tories contain some rum coves among the diamond geezers is already priced in. so m'afraid it won't help labour at all
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    By threatening deselection of MPs who do not toe the Party line is bullying in the extreme...Corbyn is threatening to take their jobs.. how bad is that on the bullying scale
  • It's a very sorry episode, but doesn't change anything in the political weather. It's raining cats and dogs on Labour.

    that tories contain some rum coves among the diamond geezers is already priced in. so m'afraid it won't help labour at all
    This is the case in all parties. Tories turn at moment.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    FPT

    If @jungleland is lurking....

    You mentioned SPIN were considering putting up a few more OW&R markets a few days ago.

    Just to say I'd be interested in a party %'age spread.

    Even better would be a raw votes market, though. I'm not sure how the stakes would work on that - maybe votes/1000 or something? Trading the raw vote numbers would be awesome.

    I'll admit it, I'm a geek. :)
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited November 2015
    At least Shapps has stopped the buck, and resigned. Rennard was given a promotion, then forced to step back.

    It's a very sorry episode, but doesn't change anything in the political weather. It's raining cats and dogs on Labour.

    that tories contain some rum coves among the diamond geezers is already priced in. so m'afraid it won't help labour at all
    This is the case in all parties. Tories turn at moment.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Pulpstar said:

    Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Someone posted the other day that Thatcher over her decade in office reduced the state as a proportion of GDP by 6.8% while Osborne after five years has reduced it by 6% already. At this rate I'd expect Osborne to beat Thatchers record without being seen as to the right of Thatcher.

    Osborne has learnt the golden rule of cuts methinks:

    Mr & Mrs Smith with their 3 kids currently receive 3 big bag of sweets courtesy of Gordon B.

    Osborne wanted to take away 2 bags of sweets, but the Smiths kicked up such a rumpus to their local MP, Tory A (Whose vote Osborne needs to win the leadership election) that he decided it wasn't worth his while.

    So Mr and Mrs Junior Jones who will be having 3 kids by 2019 will however be getting half a bag of sweets courtesy of IDS. They won't have splashed out on the 55" TV that Mr & Smith will have done.

    Long term obviously there is far more Junior Jones than Smiths. Hence the finances get in order.
    Out of interest.

    What happens when Mr and Mrs Junior Jones and their do-gooder lawyer decide to sue the government over a policy whereby, despite identical situation, they get less support from the government.

    I'm not sure the government can be so confident this plan will work.
    Noone successfully sued Gordon Brown iirc...
    Did he change a benefit so new applicants were disadvantaged compred to existing claimants?
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    So while everyone is waiting for a Labour MP to resign, a Shadow Minister to resign or Corbyn to resign, the next casualty turns out to be a Tory.

    Lol.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited November 2015
    FPT @Dair

    The claim dates will not be identical, and people claiming before the appropriate date are effectively granted transitional protection on their entitlements. Those claiming after do not. It's been done many times before.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    At least Shapps has stopped the buck, and resigned. Rennard was given a promotion.

    It's a very sorry episode, but doesn't change anything in the political weather. It's raining cats and dogs on Labour.

    that tories contain some rum coves among the diamond geezers is already priced in. so m'afraid it won't help labour at all
    This is the case in all parties. Tories turn at moment.
    Rennard has resigned from the LD federal executive.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/17/tim-farron-urges-lord-rennard-to-step-down-from-lib-dem-executive
  • Dair said:

    So while everyone is waiting for a Labour MP to resign, a Shadow Minister to resign or Corbyn to resign, the next casualty turns out to be a Tory.

    Lol.

    As opposed to 2 SNP MPs.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,746
    Afternoon all :)

    Does this count as the first Ministerial resignation of the new Government and what price was Shapps to be the first one out ?

    Oldham isn't the only contest in a safe Labour seat this week and I'm just back from a cold afternoon's leafleting. Can't honestly say "the Corbyn effect" was much in evidence but as with most December elections it won't be a high turnout.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    It looks like one Make Believe Country is not going to beat another Make Believe Country the way people were predicting in the tennis.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,383
    edited November 2015
    I presume something worse is coming in the Sunday's if Shapps is gone. He rode out previous scandals, Mr Green et al. TBH, the Tories would have been very wise to have ditched him ages ago.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Does this count as the first Ministerial resignation of the new Government and what price was Shapps to be the first one out ?

    Oldham isn't the only contest in a safe Labour seat this week and I'm just back from a cold afternoon's leafleting. Can't honestly say "the Corbyn effect" was much in evidence but as with most December elections it won't be a high turnout.

    IIRC Shapps was dropped from the cabinet after the election.
  • Dair said:

    It looks like one Make Believe Country is not going to beat another Make Believe Country the way people were predicting in the tennis.


    was it Narnia vs Middle Earth, or what?
  • I presume something worse is coming in the Sunday's if Shapps is gone. He rode out previous scandals, Mr Green et al. TBH, the Tories would have been very wise to have ditched him ages ago.

    Presumably CCHQ will accept that complaints were passed on to them (as seems likely).
  • Dair said:

    It looks like one Make Believe Country is not going to beat another Make Believe Country the way people were predicting in the tennis.

    One set all, Dair! Everything to play for!
  • stodge said:


    Oldham isn't the only contest in a safe Labour seat this week and I'm just back from a cold afternoon's leafleting.

    You poor sod! Any point in a safe Labour seat?
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    It looks like one Make Believe Country is not going to beat another Make Believe Country the way people were predicting in the tennis.


    was it Narnia vs Middle Earth, or what?
    Pretty much, the idea of them as nations is just as fictional.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Sounds like it's a messy process who knew what when story.

    They rarely have any impact as most of us don't care that much beyond the key player - and it's the unknown outside Toryland Mark Clarke. I'd no idea who he was until this all began. And he's banned for life now anyway.

    Shapps clearly made the wrong call and has gone.

    I presume something worse is coming in the Sunday's if Shapps is gone. He rode out previous scandals, Mr Green et al. TBH, the Tories would have been very wise to have ditched him ages ago.

  • Dair said:

    Dair said:

    It looks like one Make Believe Country is not going to beat another Make Believe Country the way people were predicting in the tennis.


    was it Narnia vs Middle Earth, or what?
    Pretty much, the idea of them as nations is just as fictional.
    What passport do you hold, Dair?
  • The right must face up to the reality of climate change
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/thunderer/article4625947.ece
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    It looks like one Make Believe Country is not going to beat another Make Believe Country the way people were predicting in the tennis.


    was it Narnia vs Middle Earth, or what?
    Pretty much, the idea of them as nations is just as fictional.
    What passport do you hold, Dair?
    My passport says European Union.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,383
    edited November 2015
    I presume also Tories are probably cleaning stables to try and end the story (not a nice way to put the story that resulted in the death of a young guy).

    Labour's Corbyn problem isn't going anywhere. Next week is Syria, and then it is only a matter of time before some other bust up or one of Team Corbyn says something mad or something dodgy is found out about their past.
  • Dair said:

    Dair said:

    It looks like one Make Believe Country is not going to beat another Make Believe Country the way people were predicting in the tennis.


    was it Narnia vs Middle Earth, or what?
    Pretty much, the idea of them as nations is just as fictional.
    I'm none the wiser, but I hope Gandalf wins
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,429
    The resignation of Shapps is merely a Christmas Day kickabout in No Man's Land by the various warring factions of the Left....
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Tomorrow probably, then everyday next week?

    I presume also Tories are probably cleaning stables to try and end the story (not a nice way to put the story that resulted in the death of a young guy).

    Labour's Corbyn problem isn't going anywhere. Next week is Syria, and then it is only a matter of time before some other bust up or one of Team Corbyn says something mad or something dodgy is found out about their past.

  • Dair said:

    Dair said:

    It looks like one Make Believe Country is not going to beat another Make Believe Country the way people were predicting in the tennis.


    was it Narnia vs Middle Earth, or what?
    Pretty much, the idea of them as nations is just as fictional.
    You don't represent your nation in the Davis Cup; you represent your country.

    And besides, typical Nat rejection of the idea that anyone can have dual- or multiple-identity.
  • Mr. Song, or what? Will we heretics have our opinions taken away? :p
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    I presume something worse is coming in the Sunday's if Shapps is gone. He rode out previous scandals, Mr Green et al. TBH, the Tories would have been very wise to have ditched him ages ago.

    Presumably CCHQ will accept that complaints were passed on to them (as seems likely).
    If they do then Feldman needs to go as well. They need to also find out who was leaking the complaints to Clarke.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 43,033

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    It looks like one Make Believe Country is not going to beat another Make Believe Country the way people were predicting in the tennis.


    was it Narnia vs Middle Earth, or what?
    Pretty much, the idea of them as nations is just as fictional.
    I'm none the wiser, but I hope Gandalf wins
    I've backed Andy Murray E/W for SPOTY and Belgium for the tennis.

    #Dodgypseudohedging...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,796

    Dair said:

    So while everyone is waiting for a Labour MP to resign, a Shadow Minister to resign or Corbyn to resign, the next casualty turns out to be a Tory.

    Lol.

    As opposed to 2 SNP MPs.
    Ha Ha Ha , saddo pipes up, is that the best you can come up with , Tories are rotten to the core.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited November 2015

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    It looks like one Make Believe Country is not going to beat another Make Believe Country the way people were predicting in the tennis.


    was it Narnia vs Middle Earth, or what?
    Pretty much, the idea of them as nations is just as fictional.
    You don't represent your nation in the Davis Cup; you represent your country.

    And besides, typical Nat rejection of the idea that anyone can have dual- or multiple-identity.
    That's strange because the United Kingdom is not a country, the name they play under Great Britain is not a country.

    If they win, all the points for GB will have been won by Scotland. If the other fictional nation wins both Flemings and Walloons will have won points.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited November 2015
    Rod at his best http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/why-dont-the-french-bomb-belgium/
    As a Muslim cleric has to deny saying it’s OK to eat your wife, the BBC and the liberal establishment just cringe with appalling liberal bias

    ...My anti-epiphany began with Kirsty Wark on Newsnight interviewing two women, one of whom said that the problem was France’s racist society and the other, a French-Algerian, who opined that it first looked like the attacks could have been caused by rival drug gangs. I stared at the screen, mouth agape, unable for a while to believe what I was hearing. A whole programme about the Paris attacks in which three words — Muslim, Islam, jihadi — were not used at any point.

    The desperation to exculpate the ideology was present long before the bodies had been carried away. Then, when it was revealed that some attackers had entered the country as refugees, the Today programme had a fair, balanced and unpartisan debate between three people who agreed that we should take more refugees, because getting tough is ‘what they (the nasty terrorists) want us to do’.
  • F1: finding it hard to see much value. I don't want to be spending ages on this, so I may end up putting it up tomorrow, if I don't see any value in the next hour or two [when I've finished some work and had a bite to eat].
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Pulpstar said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    It looks like one Make Believe Country is not going to beat another Make Believe Country the way people were predicting in the tennis.


    was it Narnia vs Middle Earth, or what?
    Pretty much, the idea of them as nations is just as fictional.
    I'm none the wiser, but I hope Gandalf wins
    I've backed Andy Murray E/W for SPOTY and Belgium for the tennis.

    #Dodgypseudohedging...
    You should have got on that earlier.

    I believe he was still 6s or 8s when I tipped him after the Semi-Final win.
  • 'Could this take the media pressure off Mr. Corbyn?'

    Yes, but only till Monday when Labour’s division over Syria will again spring forth.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 6,648
    Dair said:

    So while everyone is waiting for a Labour MP to resign, a Shadow Minister to resign or Corbyn to resign, the next casualty turns out to be a Tory.

    Lol.

    So you find it amusing that a Tory does the honourable while no-one in Labour will. LOL
  • Dair said:

    Dair said:

    It looks like one Make Believe Country is not going to beat another Make Believe Country the way people were predicting in the tennis.


    was it Narnia vs Middle Earth, or what?
    Pretty much, the idea of them as nations is just as fictional.
    You don't represent your nation in the Davis Cup; you represent your country.

    And besides, typical Nat rejection of the idea that anyone can have dual- or multiple-identity.
    And of the fact that the Scottish people decisively voted to stay in the Union last year.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 43,033
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    It looks like one Make Believe Country is not going to beat another Make Believe Country the way people were predicting in the tennis.


    was it Narnia vs Middle Earth, or what?
    Pretty much, the idea of them as nations is just as fictional.
    You don't represent your nation in the Davis Cup; you represent your country.

    And besides, typical Nat rejection of the idea that anyone can have dual- or multiple-identity.
    And of the fact that the Scottish people decisively voted to stay in the Union last year.
    No-one choose whether or not to stay.

    Scots voted to end the UK, Residents voted to give it a couple more years.
  • On topic, no, it won't take the pressure of Corbyn for the simple reason that by going, Shapps has neutralised much of the story (although not all of it). By contrast, Corbyn is in for another week of division coming up. Had Shapps not gone, next weekend might have been tough for him once the Syria vote and Oldham were out of the way.
  • Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    It looks like one Make Believe Country is not going to beat another Make Believe Country the way people were predicting in the tennis.


    was it Narnia vs Middle Earth, or what?
    Pretty much, the idea of them as nations is just as fictional.
    You don't represent your nation in the Davis Cup; you represent your country.

    And besides, typical Nat rejection of the idea that anyone can have dual- or multiple-identity.
    And of the fact that the Scottish people decisively voted to stay in the Union last year.
    No-one choose whether or not to stay.

    Scots voted to end the UK, Residents voted to give it a couple more years.
    Wrong.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,482
    edited November 2015

    The right must face up to the reality of climate change
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/thunderer/article4625947.ece

    You must face up to the reality that man made climate change is a load of ball*. Arctic ice cover up.Antartic ice cover up.northern hemisphere jet steam has moved southward. More snow patches left in the Scottish Highlands this year, 10x that in 2007. 90pc of world glaciers now expanding. And termites produce 10 times the co2 of human beings. Climate gate emails when East anglia university realised the raw unfiddled data showed no warning. Infact the satellite data shows slight cooling since 1997. You and your man made climate change are totally discredited just as Harrabin, Shuckman and Paris next week are.
  • I see David Icke is now backing Corbyn. The scairest thing, he is not the nuttiest recruit to the Corbynism cause.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    IS blamed for mass Yazidi grave found near Sinjar, Iraq

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34954233
  • Rod at his best http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/why-dont-the-french-bomb-belgium/

    As a Muslim cleric has to deny saying it’s OK to eat your wife, the BBC and the liberal establishment just cringe with appalling liberal bias

    ...My anti-epiphany began with Kirsty Wark on Newsnight interviewing two women, one of whom said that the problem was France’s racist society and the other, a French-Algerian, who opined that it first looked like the attacks could have been caused by rival drug gangs. I stared at the screen, mouth agape, unable for a while to believe what I was hearing. A whole programme about the Paris attacks in which three words — Muslim, Islam, jihadi — were not used at any point.

    The desperation to exculpate the ideology was present long before the bodies had been carried away. Then, when it was revealed that some attackers had entered the country as refugees, the Today programme had a fair, balanced and unpartisan debate between three people who agreed that we should take more refugees, because getting tough is ‘what they (the nasty terrorists) want us to do’.


    his best was when he was on the radio (producing). all he is now is a decade long sulk. any tosser could come up with this stuff
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    For anyone feeling the need for a conspiracy theory, PBS America has a good docu on Oswald/MLK and Bobby Kennedy called Oswald's Ghost. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/oswald/

    I see David Icke is now backing Corbyn. The scairest thing, he is not the nuttiest recruit to the Corbynism cause.

  • Rod at his best http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/why-dont-the-french-bomb-belgium/

    As a Muslim cleric has to deny saying it’s OK to eat your wife, the BBC and the liberal establishment just cringe with appalling liberal bias

    ...My anti-epiphany began with Kirsty Wark on Newsnight interviewing two women, one of whom said that the problem was France’s racist society and the other, a French-Algerian, who opined that it first looked like the attacks could have been caused by rival drug gangs. I stared at the screen, mouth agape, unable for a while to believe what I was hearing. A whole programme about the Paris attacks in which three words — Muslim, Islam, jihadi — were not used at any point.

    The desperation to exculpate the ideology was present long before the bodies had been carried away. Then, when it was revealed that some attackers had entered the country as refugees, the Today programme had a fair, balanced and unpartisan debate between three people who agreed that we should take more refugees, because getting tough is ‘what they (the nasty terrorists) want us to do’.
    his best was when he was on the radio (producing). all he is now is a decade long sulk. any tosser could come up with this stuff

    editing, sorry, not producing
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 13,658
    edited November 2015
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    It looks like one Make Believe Country is not going to beat another Make Believe Country the way people were predicting in the tennis.


    was it Narnia vs Middle Earth, or what?
    Pretty much, the idea of them as nations is just as fictional.
    You don't represent your nation in the Davis Cup; you represent your country.

    And besides, typical Nat rejection of the idea that anyone can have dual- or multiple-identity.
    That's strange because the United Kingdom is not a country, the name they play under Great Britain is not a country.

    If they win, all the points for GB will have been won by Scotland. If the other fictional nation wins both Flemings and Walloons will have won points.
    Yes, you can blame the Irish for that one. Britain's national representation in international sport is an anomaly in many sports, mostly due to it being based on the home nations before the international bodies codified things. But there's no other country in the world which has Britain's arrangement.

    But the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a country in the usual sense of being the highest sovereign civil power within a geographic area. That said, the terminology of countries, states and so on is hopelessly ambiguous. Put another way, how would you define the UK? A state?

    You also assume that Andy Murray will win tomorrow. He may not, in which case it'll come down to a Yorkshireman to seal the victory.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 8,066
    Pulpstar said:
    I'm going to Athens for the Arsenal game the week after next. When I saw your post I thought you were being serious - you know, iPads and the like - but no.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,626
    malcolmg said:

    Dair said:

    So while everyone is waiting for a Labour MP to resign, a Shadow Minister to resign or Corbyn to resign, the next casualty turns out to be a Tory.

    Lol.

    As opposed to 2 SNP MPs.
    Ha Ha Ha , saddo pipes up, is that the best you can come up with , Tories are rotten to the core.
    No party has a monopoly on rotten individuals, at worst some may, at some stages, be worse than others in permitting such individuals leeway. To pretend otherwise, that any single party is inherently, and inevitably, more morally questionable, is to be a blinkered, fanatical partisan.

    Shapps seems like a dick, though.
  • malcolmg said:

    Dair said:

    So while everyone is waiting for a Labour MP to resign, a Shadow Minister to resign or Corbyn to resign, the next casualty turns out to be a Tory.

    Lol.

    As opposed to 2 SNP MPs.
    Ha Ha Ha , saddo pipes up, is that the best you can come up with , Tories are rotten to the core.
    No. Some minor toss pot is not anybody's 'core'. But you can keep dreaming so if you like. And of course you will, it saves facing up to reality.
  • Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    It looks like one Make Believe Country is not going to beat another Make Believe Country the way people were predicting in the tennis.


    was it Narnia vs Middle Earth, or what?
    Pretty much, the idea of them as nations is just as fictional.
    What passport do you hold, Dair?
    My passport says European Union.
    Think you'll find the "European Union" is the fictional dreamland state. What about the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland on your passport?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,645
    Daily Telegraph uses electoral calculus to forecast that if Labour lost Oldham West to UKIP a similar swing at the next election would push the party into third with UKIP becoming the main opposition on 102 seats with Labour on just 73 and the Tories on 388, even if it only lost half its majority that would still see Labour fall to 160 seats with UKIP on 10

    In the same paper John Mcternan, a former Blair and Julia Gillard aide, backs Hilary Benn as Corbyn's replacement
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12021977/Labour-MPs-have-only-one-option-a-mutiny.html


  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    My passport says I am citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,645
    On topic - Simon Heffer 'There's something rotten at the heart of the Tory Party, others should do the decent thing and follow Shapps'
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/12021988/Theres-something-rotten-at-the-heart-of-the-Tory-party.html
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,796
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Dair said:

    So while everyone is waiting for a Labour MP to resign, a Shadow Minister to resign or Corbyn to resign, the next casualty turns out to be a Tory.

    Lol.

    As opposed to 2 SNP MPs.
    Ha Ha Ha , saddo pipes up, is that the best you can come up with , Tories are rotten to the core.
    No party has a monopoly on rotten individuals, at worst some may, at some stages, be worse than others in permitting such individuals leeway. To pretend otherwise, that any single party is inherently, and inevitably, more morally questionable, is to be a blinkered, fanatical partisan.

    Shapps seems like a dick, though.
    kle4, for sure but Tories are hard to beat
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108


    Yes, you can blame the Irish for that one. Britain's national representation in international sport is an anomaly in many sports, mostly due to it being based on the home nations before the international bodies codified things. But there's no other country in the world which has Britain's arrangement.

    This is no longer true.

    The PRC/Hong Kong arrangement now works similarly. Actually more widespread, Hong Kong has Olympic status.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,626

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    It looks like one Make Believe Country is not going to beat another Make Believe Country the way people were predicting in the tennis.


    was it Narnia vs Middle Earth, or what?
    Pretty much, the idea of them as nations is just as fictional.
    You don't represent your nation in the Davis Cup; you represent your country.

    And besides, typical Nat rejection of the idea that anyone can have dual- or multiple-identity.
    That's strange because the United Kingdom is not a country, the name they play under Great Britain is not a country.

    If they win, all the points for GB will have been won by Scotland. If the other fictional nation wins both Flemings and Walloons will have won points.


    But the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a country in the usual sense of being the highest sovereign civil power within a geographic area. That said, the terminology of countries, states and so on is hopelessly ambiguous. Put another way, how would you define the UK? A state?
    Don't bother - to Dair, anything that signifies the UK as a state is artificial or illegitimate, including millions of people saying otherwise, despite the inherent arbitrary tribalism that splits any of humanity into separate factions. I think I'll avoid the sophistic arguments to that effect for today.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,626
    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Dair said:

    So while everyone is waiting for a Labour MP to resign, a Shadow Minister to resign or Corbyn to resign, the next casualty turns out to be a Tory.

    Lol.

    As opposed to 2 SNP MPs.
    Ha Ha Ha , saddo pipes up, is that the best you can come up with , Tories are rotten to the core.
    No party has a monopoly on rotten individuals, at worst some may, at some stages, be worse than others in permitting such individuals leeway. To pretend otherwise, that any single party is inherently, and inevitably, more morally questionable, is to be a blinkered, fanatical partisan.

    Shapps seems like a dick, though.
    kle4, for sure but Tories are hard to beat
    They certainly have more of a reputation for it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,796

    malcolmg said:

    Dair said:

    So while everyone is waiting for a Labour MP to resign, a Shadow Minister to resign or Corbyn to resign, the next casualty turns out to be a Tory.

    Lol.

    As opposed to 2 SNP MPs.
    Ha Ha Ha , saddo pipes up, is that the best you can come up with , Tories are rotten to the core.
    No. Some minor toss pot is not anybody's 'core'. But you can keep dreaming so if you like. And of course you will, it saves facing up to reality.
    I do not give a toss for any politician, I ma only for the SNP as the best of a bad lot and the only Scottish party and also interested in Scotland. Otherwise I have a real life.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,645
    Dair said:


    Yes, you can blame the Irish for that one. Britain's national representation in international sport is an anomaly in many sports, mostly due to it being based on the home nations before the international bodies codified things. But there's no other country in the world which has Britain's arrangement.

    This is no longer true.

    The PRC/Hong Kong arrangement now works similarly. Actually more widespread, Hong Kong has Olympic status.
    Indeed while Britain still competes as the UK and TeamGB at the Olympics
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Wow..HK has Olympic status...that means they have joined the drugs cartel..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,645
    'Donald Trump meets with Coalition of African American Ministers at Trump Towers' on Monday in most surreal event being advertised this weekend
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/27/100-black-religious-leaders-endorse-donald-trump-monday/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,645
    Reuters five day polling rolling average

    Donald Trump 30.0%
    Ben Carson 10.7%
    Marco Rubio 5.7%
    Fla. Gov. Jeb Bush 5.3%
    Ted Cruz 5.0%
    John Kasich 3.8%
    Chris Christie 3.7%
    Mike Huckabee 3.5%
    Rand Paul 2.4%
    http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/TR130/dates/20150823-20151127/type/smallest
  • Dair said:

    It looks like one Make Believe Country is not going to beat another Make Believe Country the way people were predicting in the tennis.

    Scotland vs Wallonia?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Someone posted the other day that Thatcher over her decade in office reduced the state as a proportion of GDP by 6.8% while Osborne after five years has reduced it by 6% already. At this rate I'd expect Osborne to beat Thatchers record without being seen as to the right of Thatcher.

    Osborne has learnt the golden rule of cuts methinks:

    Mr & Mrs Smith with their 3 kids currently receive 3 big bag of sweets courtesy of Gordon B.

    Osborne wanted to take away 2 bags of sweets, but the Smiths kicked up such a rumpus to their local MP, Tory A (Whose vote Osborne needs to win the leadership election) that he decided it wasn't worth his while.

    So Mr and Mrs Junior Jones who will be having 3 kids by 2019 will however be getting half a bag of sweets courtesy of IDS. They won't have splashed out on the 55" TV that Mr & Smith will have done.

    Long term obviously there is far more Junior Jones than Smiths. Hence the finances get in order.
    Out of interest.

    What happens when Mr and Mrs Junior Jones and their do-gooder lawyer decide to sue the government over a policy whereby, despite identical situation, they get less support from the government.

    I'm not sure the government can be so confident this plan will work.
    Noone successfully sued Gordon Brown iirc...
    Did he change a benefit so new applicants were disadvantaged compred to existing claimants?
    You don't seriously expect frozen arsed Labour MP's to resign, do you?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 10,714
    edited November 2015
    Looks like the Daily Mail has destroyed Michael Green! :smiley:
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 10,714
    There was always something a bit... Dodgy about him wasn't there? ;)

    I guess Cameron would have loved to have got rid in May but as he was party chairman (person) when the Tories got their first majority for 23 years it was kind of tricky?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 12,470
    What exactly did Mark Clarke do?
  • F1: hmm. Still struggling to find much. Got a few half-hearted ideas, which I shall contemplate soon.
  • Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Dair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Someone posted the other day that Thatcher over her decade in office reduced the state as a proportion of GDP by 6.8% while Osborne after five years has reduced it by 6% already. At this rate I'd expect Osborne to beat Thatchers record without being seen as to the right of Thatcher.

    Osborne has learnt the golden rule of cuts methinks:

    Mr & Mrs Smith with their 3 kids currently receive 3 big bag of sweets courtesy of Gordon B.

    Osborne wanted to take away 2 bags of sweets, but the Smiths kicked up such a rumpus to their local MP, Tory A (Whose vote Osborne needs to win the leadership election) that he decided it wasn't worth his while.

    So Mr and Mrs Junior Jones who will be having 3 kids by 2019 will however be getting half a bag of sweets courtesy of IDS. They won't have splashed out on the 55" TV that Mr & Smith will have done.

    Long term obviously there is far more Junior Jones than Smiths. Hence the finances get in order.
    Out of interest.

    What happens when Mr and Mrs Junior Jones and their do-gooder lawyer decide to sue the government over a policy whereby, despite identical situation, they get less support from the government.

    I'm not sure the government can be so confident this plan will work.
    Noone successfully sued Gordon Brown iirc...
    Did he change a benefit so new applicants were disadvantaged compred to existing claimants?
    Parliament can change laws as it sees fit. Otherwise I'll have my state pension at 65, thank you very much.
  • kle4 said:



    No party has a monopoly on rotten individuals, at worst some may, at some stages, be worse than others in permitting such individuals leeway. To pretend otherwise, that any single party is inherently, and inevitably, more morally questionable, is to be a blinkered, fanatical partisan.

    Shapps seems like a dick, though.

    I might use this down the pub one night. Wonderfully put.
  • Dair said:


    Yes, you can blame the Irish for that one. Britain's national representation in international sport is an anomaly in many sports, mostly due to it being based on the home nations before the international bodies codified things. But there's no other country in the world which has Britain's arrangement.

    This is no longer true.

    The PRC/Hong Kong arrangement now works similarly. Actually more widespread, Hong Kong has Olympic status.
    Ah right. So does that make 'China' a pretendy country too?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Just me letting in a little light on the subject:
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 10,714
    edited November 2015
    However, after giving Jack's ARSE a little rub and gazing into the future, the mists of time have parted to reveal that this will NOT change the political weather....

    Corbyn is still toast! :smiley:
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,299
    I hope this does not upset anyone, but I feel it needs saying:

    Whilst I regret his death and sympathise with his family and friends, can I just say that the way the poor man chose to end his life was utterly selfish.

    I've known drivers and others who have been deeply affected by suicides on the tracks and their aftermath. It can stay with them forever. It is not just drivers: someone described picking up body parts and tissue from the undercarriage of a train; another finding belongings of a suicide some days afterwards. Even that, he said, had been upsetting.

    http://www.samaritans.org/your-community/saving-lives-railway/suicide-and-railways

    In some cases, such as Ufton Nervert or Glendale, on-track suicides can kill others.
  • chestnut said:

    IS blamed for mass Yazidi grave found near Sinjar, Iraq

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34954233

    Josias "Erdogan" Jessop will pop up shortly blaming Assad!
  • TOPPING said:

    What exactly did Mark Clarke do?

    Wasn't he the one who charged into Rome, against orders, just in time for the feat to be eclipsed by D-Day?
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,303

    I hope this does not upset anyone, but I feel it needs saying:

    Whilst I regret his death and sympathise with his family and friends, can I just say that the way the poor man chose to end his life was utterly selfish.

    I've known drivers and others who have been deeply affected by suicides on the tracks and their aftermath. It can stay with them forever. It is not just drivers: someone described picking up body parts and tissue from the undercarriage of a train; another finding belongings of a suicide some days afterwards. Even that, he said, had been upsetting.

    http://www.samaritans.org/your-community/saving-lives-railway/suicide-and-railways

    In some cases, such as Ufton Nervert or Glendale, on-track suicides can kill others.

    They clamped down on the ways of people committing suicide (eg number of paracetamol you can buy), so people find other solutions.

    When someone has decided to go, I doubt they care much about who will be picking up the pieces.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,299

    chestnut said:

    IS blamed for mass Yazidi grave found near Sinjar, Iraq

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34954233

    Josias "Erdogan" Jessop will pop up shortly blaming Assad!
    Oh, do grow up Sunil. If you want to make 'jokes', please don't do it about such a serious issue.

    And if it wasn't a joke, p*ss off. ;)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,299

    I hope this does not upset anyone, but I feel it needs saying:

    Whilst I regret his death and sympathise with his family and friends, can I just say that the way the poor man chose to end his life was utterly selfish.

    I've known drivers and others who have been deeply affected by suicides on the tracks and their aftermath. It can stay with them forever. It is not just drivers: someone described picking up body parts and tissue from the undercarriage of a train; another finding belongings of a suicide some days afterwards. Even that, he said, had been upsetting.

    http://www.samaritans.org/your-community/saving-lives-railway/suicide-and-railways

    In some cases, such as Ufton Nervert or Glendale, on-track suicides can kill others.

    They clamped down on the ways of people committing suicide (eg number of paracetamol you can buy), so people find other solutions.

    When someone has decided to go, I doubt they care much about who will be picking up the pieces.
    Indeed. My point still stands though.
  • Mr. Jessop, a fair point (likewise those who hurl themselves in front of buses and the like).

    That said, those committing suicide are rarely the soundest of mind.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    My Uncle Brian was a 125 driver and never got over running a suicidal man over. He saw him a mile uptrack and couldn't stop in time. The chappy looked him in the eye. Then his vapourised parts came into the cabin via the air vents.

    I've been on a train that ran over someone - the driver had the fellow smeared all over the front of his cabin window, the police spent 3hrs picking iddy biddy bits of him off the track and platform.

    It really isn't the way to exit this mortal coil - there are other ways that don't involve others suffering PTSD as a result.

    I hope this does not upset anyone, but I feel it needs saying:

    Whilst I regret his death and sympathise with his family and friends, can I just say that the way the poor man chose to end his life was utterly selfish.

    I've known drivers and others who have been deeply affected by suicides on the tracks and their aftermath. It can stay with them forever. It is not just drivers: someone described picking up body parts and tissue from the undercarriage of a train; another finding belongings of a suicide some days afterwards. Even that, he said, had been upsetting.

    http://www.samaritans.org/your-community/saving-lives-railway/suicide-and-railways

    In some cases, such as Ufton Nervert or Glendale, on-track suicides can kill others.

  • chestnut said:

    IS blamed for mass Yazidi grave found near Sinjar, Iraq

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34954233

    Josias "Erdogan" Jessop will pop up shortly blaming Assad!
    Oh, do grow up Sunil. If you want to make 'jokes', please don't do it about such a serious issue.

    And if it wasn't a joke, p*ss off. ;)
    Note: The subject Josias responds to the stimulus as expected!
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    chestnut said:

    IS blamed for mass Yazidi grave found near Sinjar, Iraq

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34954233

    Josias "Erdogan" Jessop will pop up shortly blaming Assad!
    Oh, do grow up Sunil. If you want to make 'jokes', please don't do it about such a serious issue.

    And if it wasn't a joke, p*ss off. ;)
    Note: The subject Josias responds to the stimulus as expected!
    Is this a pinch JJ on the knackers weekend? ;)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,299

    Mr. Jessop, a fair point (likewise those who hurl themselves in front of buses and the like).

    That said, those committing suicide are rarely the soundest of mind.

    Our friend, who committed suicide a few years back after many years / decades of periodic depression, seems to have made it a priority to 'hurt' as few people as possible. I won't go into how he did it, but it was in his front room. He erected a wall of cardboard boxes behind his front door with a message something like: "Police only past this point."

    As much as I'm hurt by his suicide, I do quite admire (*) the clarity and focus of mind he had to do that. And the death was, by all accounts, peaceful and non-gory.

    Unlike someone I know, who had to de-retire from the city when his hand-picked replacement committed suicide. One Sunday, whilst his wife was cooking dinner, he hung himself from a tree in the garden, within view of the kitchen and house. His wife and teenage kids found his body.

    (*) I'm not sure that's the right word.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,645
    Great Britain just beaten Belgium in the doubles
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 2,640
    There is only so much you can discuss internal party affairs. Corbyn being a disaster stretches across internal party affairs, the byelection, foreign affairs, economics, fiscal policy, and the rest.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,645
    TOPPING said:

    What exactly did Mark Clarke do?

    Bullied his inferiors, manipulated his rivals and cheated on his wife with several younger women, sounds like a model politician from the Frank Underwood school!
  • HYUFD said:

    Great Britain just beaten Belgium in the doubles

    Huzzah! We're well placed to win the Davis Cup :)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 12,470
    edited November 2015
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    What exactly did Mark Clarke do?

    Bullied his inferiors, manipulated his rivals and cheated on his wife with several younger women, sounds like a model politician from the Frank Underwood school!
    Yes thanks just also read the Graun on him.
This discussion has been closed.