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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tonight’s cartoon on the crazy staff changes in the Trump Whit

SystemSystem Posts: 3,967
edited July 31 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tonight’s cartoon on the crazy staff changes in the Trump White House

Just trying to keep up with the ins and out in the Trump White House is becoming a huge challenge. In the past fortnight we’ve seen the exits Sean Spicer, the former press secretary, and Reince Priebus, the first chief of staff. Tonight’s news is that the President has removed Anthony Scaramucci from his Communications Director role after he’d served for just ten days.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • It's been a popcorn fest since 20th January 2017

    Long may it continue!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 2,049
    Second!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,650
    Third.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 2,049
    It's not really happening, the Simulation is just trying to help us take our minds off of Brexit.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 4,996
    When Trump sacks his daughter and son-in-law, then we will know that things are getting serious.

    I suppose he has already sacked his wife and brought in a replacement - more than once.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 8,872
    Technically isn't his fist day the 15th of August. He's lasted -2 weeks
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,650
    O/T. Just watched I am Bolt. Highly recommended...what a character. Will be sorely missed.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 2,049
    OT...

    I know it was mentioned a day or so ago (apols, I can't remember by whom) but if you haven't read it, this Spectator article is a good one.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/the-myth-of-britains-decline/

    It is well written and makes a strong argument against Brexit pessimism, which for a Remainer like me is interesting to read. It's (relatively) understated approach carries more power which I feel is a lesson for all of us with strong views either side of the political or Brexit divide.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 2,049
    dixiedean said:

    O/T. Just watched I am Bolt. Highly recommended...what a character. Will be sorely missed.

    Thanks - got it recorded - look forward to watching it tomorrow.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 25,303
    Who the hell was the woman in bright pink outfit who just did the press conference!!! You wouldn't want to cut her up on the road, she would be out her car beating the crap out of you in a blink of an eye.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 2,049
    Alistair said:

    Technically isn't his fist day the 15th of August. He's lasted -2 weeks


    Fist day? Sounds a bit dodgy ?!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 2,049

    Who the hell was the woman in bright pink outfit who just did the press conference!!! You wouldn't want to cut her up on the road, she would be out her car beating the crap out of you in a blink of an eye.

    Didn't see it but suspect it was Sarah Huckabee Sanders = Mike Huckabee's daughter.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 25,303

    Who the hell was the woman in bright pink outfit who just did the press conference!!! You wouldn't want to cut her up on the road, she would be out her car beating the crap out of you in a blink of an eye.

    Didn't see it but suspect it was Sarah Huckabee Sanders = Mike Huckabee's daughter.
    That's her. She is one angry scary woman.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,650

    dixiedean said:

    O/T. Just watched I am Bolt. Highly recommended...what a character. Will be sorely missed.

    Thanks - got it recorded - look forward to watching it tomorrow.
    Nice guy too. Doesn't have the arrogance of so many uber successful people. Supremely self-confident, but not self-important.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 4,996
    Off topic: Just heard a scraping sound outside - turned out to be a Porsche being friendly with a wall. Woops.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 224
    I think the Dems will under preform in the mid terms, I have no idea what they stand *for* apart from being against Trump. I just don't think that is enough.
  • 619619 Posts: 1,784
    nunuone said:

    I think the Dems will under preform in the mid terms, I have no idea what they stand *for* apart from being against Trump. I just don't think that is enough.

    Campaigning hasnt really started for the mid terms yet though. If you are non-republican, why would you vote for rhw GOP and their president at the moment?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 7,362
    edited July 31
    And yet May and her Brexit B Team are all still in place scratching each others eyes out
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 8,051
    Please god there's no Trump visit to see TMay anytime soon....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 17,375
    Does Scaramucci do the fandango?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 3,587
    DavidL said:

    Does Scaramucci do the fandango?

    I think he may have skipped the light version.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 3,966
    edited July 31

    It's been a popcorn fest since 20th January 2017

    Long may it continue!

    You may regret that thought if North Korea keeps playing silly buggers with ICBMs. Or the Chinese do something really daft in the Spratly Islands, or Taiwan. Or Putin invades a Baltic State. Or Iran blocks the Straits of Hormuz.

    None of the above are especially unlikely.

    I'm stockpiling baked beans and fresh water.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 16,972
    "Quite whether things will now settle down is hard to say"

    Doesn't seem very hard to me.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 20,501
    edited July 31
    O/T

    I must be the luckiest cricket fan in the world. I was at Old Trafford in 1995 when Dominic Cork got a hat-trick against the West Indies, and I was at the Oval today when Moeen Ali got another one.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 4,458

    OT...

    I know it was mentioned a day or so ago (apols, I can't remember by whom) but if you haven't read it, this Spectator article is a good one.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/the-myth-of-britains-decline/

    It is well written and makes a strong argument against Brexit pessimism, which for a Remainer like me is interesting to read. It's (relatively) understated approach carries more power which I feel is a lesson for all of us with strong views either side of the political or Brexit divide.

    It's neither well written nor understated. Listing the problems as follows:

    * It downplays things that contradict it ("...temporary dominance in manufacturing during the mid-19th century. This was a brief and unique episode..."),
    * Ad hominems like crazy ("Since the 1880s, pessimists have always tended...")
    * Exaggerates ("...We will be comparable, declinists scoff, to Albania or North Korea...")
    * Submits contentious points as axioms ("...The recent overdue depreciation of an overvalued pound...")
    * Makes some debatable assertions (Germany is an *ancient* rival?)

    If you're going to talk about decline or otherwise, you need to build some sort of definition of decline, then build an index of power, then track it over time. He (Robert Tombs) talks a lot, but I'd've killed for a couple of graphs.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 9,644
    Am American friend says wryly, "It's a fine state of affairs when I HOPE that the Russians have enough dirt on Trump to order him not to do anything that will blow us all up."
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 2,645
    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    I must be the luckiest cricket fan in the world. I was at Old Trafford in 1995 when Dominic Cork got a hat-trick against the West Indies, and I was at the Oval today when Moeen Ali got another one.

    In addition to the 11 hat-tricks taken from 1879 (the first, in the third ever Test) to 1938 (the last before the war), there have been 32 post-war hat-tricks:

    - no hat-tricks in the 1940s
    - 3 hat-tricks in the 1950s
    - 2 hat-tricks in the 1960s
    - 1 hat-trick in the 1970s
    - 2 hat-tricks in the 1980s (they were within a fortnight of each other - coincidentally both split over two innings, the first two times this happened in Tests)
    - 7 hat-tricks in the 1990s (five in 1999, as many as there had been from 1960 to 1993 inclusive and the most there has ever been in one year)
    - 11 hat-tricks in the 2000s
    - 6 hat-tricks in the 2010s so far

    They have jumped up from about two per decade, to almost (on average) annual occurrences, but you're still a very lucky man!

    How many people have seen multiple instances of out for handling the ball? That's only happened seven times in Tests, three in ODIs, and that total is likely to be static since the rule is being abolished from October (it will be merged with "obstructed the ball", which has happened only once in Tests so rarer still!).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 3,587
    viewcode said:

    OT...

    I know it was mentioned a day or so ago (apols, I can't remember by whom) but if you haven't read it, this Spectator article is a good one.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/the-myth-of-britains-decline/

    It is well written and makes a strong argument against Brexit pessimism, which for a Remainer like me is interesting to read. It's (relatively) understated approach carries more power which I feel is a lesson for all of us with strong views either side of the political or Brexit divide.

    It's neither well written nor understated. Listing the problems as follows:

    * It downplays things that contradict it ("...temporary dominance in manufacturing during the mid-19th century. This was a brief and unique episode..."),
    * Ad hominems like crazy ("Since the 1880s, pessimists have always tended...")
    * Exaggerates ("...We will be comparable, declinists scoff, to Albania or North Korea...")
    * Submits contentious points as axioms ("...The recent overdue depreciation of an overvalued pound...")
    * Makes some debatable assertions (Germany is an *ancient* rival?)

    If you're going to talk about decline or otherwise, you need to build some sort of definition of decline, then build an index of power, then track it over time. He (Robert Tombs) talks a lot, but I'd've killed for a couple of graphs.
    Agreed. This bit, in particular, is nonsense:
    "it’s doubtful whether the empire was a source of wealth or power to Britain. Overall, it cost more than it brought in, especially after Britain turned to universal free trade in the 1840s, and colonies ceased to be an exclusive economic domain...."
  • SeaShantyIrishSeaShantyIrish Posts: 104
    AN URGENT APPEAL TO ALL CARING, KIND-HEARTED PBERS

    The COMMMITTEE for the RELIEF of EXCLUDED, EXPENDABLE PUTINISTS

    How PBers can donate: simply find the nearest hedge . . . and make your deposite in the fund!

    Cheers,

    Sea Shanty Irish
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 2,645

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    I must be the luckiest cricket fan in the world. I was at Old Trafford in 1995 when Dominic Cork got a hat-trick against the West Indies, and I was at the Oval today when Moeen Ali got another one.

    In addition to the 11 hat-tricks taken from 1879 (the first, in the third ever Test) to 1938 (the last before the war), there have been 32 post-war hat-tricks:

    - no hat-tricks in the 1940s
    - 3 hat-tricks in the 1950s
    - 2 hat-tricks in the 1960s
    - 1 hat-trick in the 1970s
    - 2 hat-tricks in the 1980s (they were within a fortnight of each other - coincidentally both split over two innings, the first two times this happened in Tests)
    - 7 hat-tricks in the 1990s (five in 1999, as many as there had been from 1960 to 1993 inclusive and the most there has ever been in one year)
    - 11 hat-tricks in the 2000s
    - 6 hat-tricks in the 2010s so far

    They have jumped up from about two per decade, to almost (on average) annual occurrences, but you're still a very lucky man!

    How many people have seen multiple instances of out for handling the ball? That's only happened seven times in Tests, three in ODIs, and that total is likely to be static since the rule is being abolished from October (it will be merged with "obstructed the ball", which has happened only once in Tests so rarer still!).
    Moeen's hat-trick is apparently the first to contain three left-handers, which at first sight was rather surprising - the number of players who bat left-handed is far disproportionate to the percentage of left-handedness in the population, and it's not unusual to see a batting line-up with 5 or 6 LHBs, so I thought we'd have had a couple by now.

    Having looked into the figures, Cricinfo records that historically only about 20% of players have batted left-handed (I'd expected it to be quite a bit more), in which case in the 43 hat-tricks recorded so far, you might expect - subject to various probabilistic assumptions - only 0.2³ × 43 = 0.344 to be all-leftie. So my intuition was quite wrong, we wouldn't have expected any by this stage, and in fact in the long-run expected less than 1% of hat-tricks to contains three LHBs. This puts the rarity of Moeen's accomplishment into perspective.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,364
    nunuone said:

    I think the Dems will under preform in the mid terms, I have no idea what they stand *for* apart from being against Trump. I just don't think that is enough.

    I'm not sure what the Republicans are for, mind. Donald Trump is on a completely different page to most of his party.

    Still, he's incredibly lucky that Obamacare was not repealed. It would have massacred his supporters in the rust belt.
  • SeaShantyIrishSeaShantyIrish Posts: 104
    WORST thing about departure of the Mooch, is that yours truly can no longer call the White House Communications team "Dingleberry & Huckleberry". At least not for another 24 hours or so.
  • SeaShantyIrishSeaShantyIrish Posts: 104
    re: "hat tricks" is headgear beloved by cricketeers the gorblimey hat?

    Sadly, the big sports story in USA right now is neither your hat tricks nor head bangers, but rather allegations that Pete Rose was guilty of statutory rape. Which MAY make him ineligible for Trumpski admin post until AFTER the Kremlin has cleared his pardon. Hard luck for him that he didn't play ice hockey!
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 2,645

    re: "hat tricks" is headgear beloved by cricketeers the gorblimey hat?

    Sadly, the big sports story in USA right now is neither your hat tricks nor head bangers, but rather allegations that Pete Rose was guilty of statutory rape. Which MAY make him ineligible for Trumpski admin post until AFTER the Kremlin has cleared his pardon. Hard luck for him that he didn't play ice hockey!

    I hadn't realised this, but John M. Dowd - author of the Dowd Report that got Rose banned from baseball in the first place, and whose radio comments last year led to Rose suing for defamation over statutory rape allegations and hence to the court case currently grabbing the headlines - was hired in June as part of Trump's personal legal team, and reshuffled into a lead role in his defence against the Russia allegations in late July.

    Does the circus entertain you all?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 25,849
    The SNP WASPI scandal - the SNP know they can do something about it but its not in the public interest that the public know they can:

    https://rwbblog.blogspot.co.id/2017/07/the-great-waspi-cover-up-part-3-not-in.html
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 17,821
    DavidL said:

    Does Scaramucci do the fandango?

    Since they will let him go, I'm guessing no.
  • Richard_HRichard_H Posts: 48
    Bizarre world we are in at the moment ! Trump is making UK Government look professional and almost united in what they want to achieve. Had Clinton won, i think Maybots team would be in a much more difficult position, with more world media attention on Brexit. Trumps regular contributions with a new style of comedy, have taken a lot of the spotlight away from the UK.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 9,576

    re: "hat tricks" is headgear beloved by cricketeers the gorblimey hat?

    Sadly, the big sports story in USA right now is neither your hat tricks nor head bangers, but rather allegations that Pete Rose was guilty of statutory rape. Which MAY make him ineligible for Trumpski admin post until AFTER the Kremlin has cleared his pardon. Hard luck for him that he didn't play ice hockey!

    Who Pete Rose?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 7,016
    edited August 1

    DavidL said:

    Does Scaramucci do the fandango?

    Since they will let him go, I'm guessing no.
    Scaramucci was mistakenly reported dead (in a mistake by Harvard) so maybe that's why he was fired.

    The Mail reports: Just when Anthony Scaramucci's Monday didn't seem like it could get any worse, the ousted White House communications director was killed off by his alma mater.
    In its new directory, Harvard Law School added an asterisk to Scaramucci's name, politely signalling that he had died since the school's last directory was made in 2011.


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4747810/Scaramucci-listed-dead-Harvard-Law-alumni-directort.html
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 3,587
    Watching how the Kelly hire pans out is going to be very interesting indeed.
    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/31/kelly-scaramucci-trump-chaos-241183

    I have little doubt he can deal effectively with the big egos in the White House (Scaramucci being escorted from the building by security will have had a salutary effect) - all except one.
    Donald Trump does not do discipline, and the sight of someone else 'in charge' of the White House is eventually going to rankle. The moment he stops seeing Kelly as a complete subordinate, he's likely to be gone.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 5,389
    viewcode said:

    OT...

    I know it was mentioned a day or so ago (apols, I can't remember by whom) but if you haven't read it, this Spectator article is a good one.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/the-myth-of-britains-decline/

    It is well written and makes a strong argument against Brexit pessimism, which for a Remainer like me is interesting to read. It's (relatively) understated approach carries more power which I feel is a lesson for all of us with strong views either side of the political or Brexit divide.

    It's neither well written nor understated. Listing the problems as follows:

    * It downplays things that contradict it ("...temporary dominance in manufacturing during the mid-19th century. This was a brief and unique episode..."),
    * Ad hominems like crazy ("Since the 1880s, pessimists have always tended...")
    * Exaggerates ("...We will be comparable, declinists scoff, to Albania or North Korea...")
    * Submits contentious points as axioms ("...The recent overdue depreciation of an overvalued pound...")
    * Makes some debatable assertions (Germany is an *ancient* rival?)

    If you're going to talk about decline or otherwise, you need to build some sort of definition of decline, then build an index of power, then track it over time. He (Robert Tombs) talks a lot, but I'd've killed for a couple of graphs.
    Agreed, he may have a point or he may not. What has happened to the value of the pound versus other currencies over that period and how has the British economy compared to others - give us some comparisons.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 7,016
    The Washington Post reports that Trump dictated his son's misleading statement on Russian meetings.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-dictated-sons-misleading-statement-on-meeting-with-russian-lawyer/2017/07/31/04c94f96-73ae-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html

    Is this where it turns into Watergate?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 39,546
    Good morning, everyone.

    Just went to the main site, as usual, and when I was doing something else it redirected me to some 'competition winner' page (I think it must have been some sort of advert wankery). Did a quick virus scan and it looks clean, but I really despise that sort of nonsense (had auto-playing audio too).

  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107
    Pong said:
    Hardly surprising but it's good news for those who want to see prices stabilise or even fall. The BTL market is around yield, 0% isn't appealing.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,204
    edited August 1
    PB gets excited about Donalds reality TV show

    Meanwhile the German car scandal deepens with more accusations the German government hid the truth about diesel emissions so its car makers could sell diesel engines

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/expertentweets-zur-automafia-benebelt-vom-diesel-15130491.html

    In excess of 100,000 Europeans annually will have suffered a premature death because of diesel fumes with health care costs in the UK estimated at up to £3bn

    The EU is doing nothing

    At what point does this hit mainstream politics ?
  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107

    PB gets excited about Donalds reality TV show

    Meanwhile the German car scandal deepens with more accusations the German government hid the truth about diesel emissions so its car makers could sell diesel engines

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/expertentweets-zur-automafia-benebelt-vom-diesel-15130491.html

    In excess of 100,000 Europeans annually will have suffered a premature death because of diesel fumes with health care costs in the UK estimated at up to £3bn

    The EU is doing nothing

    At what point does this hit mainstream politics ?

    When dullards stop getting excited that the US President has sacked a PR man. Politics is becoming Love Island for middle class middle aged anoraks.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 4,099
    I'm amused by Trump's antics. It's a little like the Tom Hanks film '12' where a twelve-year-old inhabits an adult body. But nearly as amusing is the critics' reactions. High grade hysteria at anything unorthodox. He is uncouth - that's the main fault in their eyes, and he can never do anything right even if it is.

    The fuss over not shaking the disabled boys hand is symbolic. It turns out he already had shaken the lad's hand, and the boy didn't want his hand shaken anyway. J.K.Rowling apologised to the family for her reaction, but refused to apologise to Trump ... because he was Trump. Nice objectivity.

    He despises the MSM and they despise him. Both sides are spoilt children.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,204

    PB gets excited about Donalds reality TV show

    Meanwhile the German car scandal deepens with more accusations the German government hid the truth about diesel emissions so its car makers could sell diesel engines

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/expertentweets-zur-automafia-benebelt-vom-diesel-15130491.html

    In excess of 100,000 Europeans annually will have suffered a premature death because of diesel fumes with health care costs in the UK estimated at up to £3bn

    The EU is doing nothing

    At what point does this hit mainstream politics ?

    When dullards stop getting excited that the US President has sacked a PR man. Politics is becoming Love Island for middle class middle aged anoraks.
    I'm a President get me out of here
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 7,736
    CD13 said:

    I'm amused by Trump's antics. It's a little like the Tom Hanks film '12' where a twelve-year-old inhabits an adult body. But nearly as amusing is the critics' reactions. High grade hysteria at anything unorthodox. He is uncouth - that's the main fault in their eyes, and he can never do anything right even if it is.

    The fuss over not shaking the disabled boys hand is symbolic. It turns out he already had shaken the lad's hand, and the boy didn't want his hand shaken anyway. J.K.Rowling apologised to the family for her reaction, but refused to apologise to Trump ... because he was Trump. Nice objectivity.

    He despises the MSM and they despise him. Both sides are spoilt children.

    In this particular case, I think it is fair to say hearts are not Trump's.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 25,849

    At what point does this hit mainstream politics ?

    When Seamus reads 'AutoMafia'.......
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 39,546
    Mr. Brooke, not 'when'. 'If'. The pro-EU side tend to love Germany too much to say anything bad about Mutti, and the sceptical side are probably more concerned with leaving to spend much time on this.

    It does sound like a major scandal, but, as we saw with Osborne on a yacht, sometimes nonsense gets headlines and sometimes serious stuff does not.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 7,736

    PB gets excited about Donalds reality TV show

    Meanwhile the German car scandal deepens with more accusations the German government hid the truth about diesel emissions so its car makers could sell diesel engines

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/expertentweets-zur-automafia-benebelt-vom-diesel-15130491.html

    In excess of 100,000 Europeans annually will have suffered a premature death because of diesel fumes with health care costs in the UK estimated at up to £3bn

    The EU is doing nothing

    At what point does this hit mainstream politics ?

    Is that from the article? My German could be better but I thought it said 50,000 Germans were dying. In which case surely the figure for Europe as a whole would be a lot higher than 100,000?

    That does of course make the scandal far worse (says the diesel driver) but remember, that many people a year died from smoking in the UK alone in the early 1980s (including passive smoking) and there was no concerted action until less than 15 years ago, which even then was fiercely opposed.

    People don't always react the way you expect them to, or even the way they should do.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,204

    Mr. Brooke, not 'when'. 'If'. The pro-EU side tend to love Germany too much to say anything bad about Mutti, and the sceptical side are probably more concerned with leaving to spend much time on this.

    It does sound like a major scandal, but, as we saw with Osborne on a yacht, sometimes nonsense gets headlines and sometimes serious stuff does not.

    In the last more more Londoners will have met a premature death becasue of diesel fumes than died in the Grenfell tower disaster.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 3,587
    ydoethur said:
    Trump doesn't panic - he's just in a constant state of hyper-excitability...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 3,587

    Publishing a book - now what might that mean... ?

    Shame that we already have a President Flake.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 15,478
    https://www.ft.com/content/9fdf35a4-7610-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71

    Brexit set to raise UK banks’ costs 4% and capital needs 30% and see the loss of 40,000 jobs
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,204
    ydoethur said:

    PB gets excited about Donalds reality TV show

    Meanwhile the German car scandal deepens with more accusations the German government hid the truth about diesel emissions so its car makers could sell diesel engines

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/expertentweets-zur-automafia-benebelt-vom-diesel-15130491.html

    In excess of 100,000 Europeans annually will have suffered a premature death because of diesel fumes with health care costs in the UK estimated at up to £3bn

    The EU is doing nothing

    At what point does this hit mainstream politics ?

    Is that from the article? My German could be better but I thought it said 50,000 Germans were dying. In which case surely the figure for Europe as a whole would be a lot higher than 100,000?

    That does of course make the scandal far worse (says the diesel driver) but remember, that many people a year died from smoking in the UK alone in the early 1980s (including passive smoking) and there was no concerted action until less than 15 years ago, which even then was fiercely opposed.

    People don't always react the way you expect them to, or even the way they should do.
    the issue here isnt just the deaths, its the legislation EU wide has banned the sale of diesel engines which dont meet defined emission standards. VW AUdi Porsche Daimler and BMW have been caught selling products which dont meet the standard. Worse the German Government is facing a growing body of evidence that not only did they know this but the Federal Government colluded to make the results fit.

    Since this is an EU matter the silence from Brussels is deafening

  • CD13CD13 Posts: 4,099
    edited August 1
    Mr ydoethur.

    "Hearts are not Trumps."

    LOL

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 24,907

    PB gets excited about Donalds reality TV show

    Meanwhile the German car scandal deepens with more accusations the German government hid the truth about diesel emissions so its car makers could sell diesel engines

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/expertentweets-zur-automafia-benebelt-vom-diesel-15130491.html

    In excess of 100,000 Europeans annually will have suffered a premature death because of diesel fumes with health care costs in the UK estimated at up to £3bn

    The EU is doing nothing

    At what point does this hit mainstream politics ?

    No-one is doing anything. It is a total scandal. But it seems that too many people have too much to lose. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose, as the Welsh say.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,204

    https://www.ft.com/content/9fdf35a4-7610-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71

    Brexit set to raise UK banks’ costs 4% and capital needs 30% and see the loss of 40,000 jobs

    EU incompetence set to kill over 100000 europeans each year
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 39,546
    Mr. Brooke, true but there are deaths and then there are deaths. We accept road casualties as the price for the massive convenience of cars (that convenience may be why the urban-friendly but perhaps rural-ignorant electric 2040 policy might fail). People burning to death because flammable material covered a residential building is not something we collectively signed up to.
  • https://www.ft.com/content/9fdf35a4-7610-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71

    Brexit set to raise UK banks’ costs 4% and capital needs 30% and see the loss of 40,000 jobs

    Sort of related news.

    We're no longer opening an office in Paris because of Brexit.

    We're opening one in Germany instead.

    Hurrah for hurrah.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,204

    https://www.ft.com/content/9fdf35a4-7610-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71

    Brexit set to raise UK banks’ costs 4% and capital needs 30% and see the loss of 40,000 jobs

    Sort of related news.

    We're no longer opening an office in Paris because of Brexit.

    We're opening one in Germany instead.

    Hurrah for hurrah.
    buy a gas mask
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 39,546
    According to Twitter, Venezuela's opposition leader has been taken from his home.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,364

    https://www.ft.com/content/9fdf35a4-7610-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71

    Brexit set to raise UK banks’ costs 4% and capital needs 30% and see the loss of 40,000 jobs

    EU incompetence set to kill over 100000 europeans each year
    EU seeks to solve demographic timebomb by poisoning older Europeans. Seeks bids from carmarkers to help implement this audacious policy.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 24,907
    edited August 1

    Mr. Brooke, not 'when'. 'If'. The pro-EU side tend to love Germany too much to say anything bad about Mutti, and the sceptical side are probably more concerned with leaving to spend much time on this.

    It does sound like a major scandal, but, as we saw with Osborne on a yacht, sometimes nonsense gets headlines and sometimes serious stuff does not.

    Is it really a Leave v Remain thing? It looks much more like a "These are huge companies that generate vast tax revenues and employ a lot of people, while millions drive diesel cars and it would cost a ridiculous amount to right the wrongs" thing. It's what gets Jeremy Corbyn out of bed in the morning, though, so maybe he will seize on it.

    Disclosure - I drive a diesel car. Not a German one, though!

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 7,736

    Mr. Brooke, not 'when'. 'If'. The pro-EU side tend to love Germany too much to say anything bad about Mutti, and the sceptical side are probably more concerned with leaving to spend much time on this.

    It does sound like a major scandal, but, as we saw with Osborne on a yacht, sometimes nonsense gets headlines and sometimes serious stuff does not.

    In the last more more Londoners will have met a premature death becasue of diesel fumes than died in the Grenfell tower disaster.

    But remember about the same number if not more will have died in road accidents. Yet, strangely, most people don't make a big song and dance about it or suggest we should switch to rail (accidental deaths in U.K. in last ten years - approx 40 a year compared to north of 1700 for roads).

    Indeed, campaigns to reduce speed limits like that by the former Chief Constable of North Wales on the A55 are often bitterly resented (admittedly in my experience slow driving is at least as dangerous as fast driving on some roads).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 12,713

    PB gets excited about Donalds reality TV show

    Meanwhile the German car scandal deepens with more accusations the German government hid the truth about diesel emissions so its car makers could sell diesel engines

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/expertentweets-zur-automafia-benebelt-vom-diesel-15130491.html

    In excess of 100,000 Europeans annually will have suffered a premature death because of diesel fumes with health care costs in the UK estimated at up to £3bn

    The EU is doing nothing

    At what point does this hit mainstream politics ?

    No-one is doing anything. It is a total scandal. But it seems that too many people have too much to lose. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose, as the Welsh say.

    Someone is doing something. Isn't there a brewing class action in US that could potentially ruin some of these german car companies?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 3,587

    https://www.ft.com/content/9fdf35a4-7610-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71

    Brexit set to raise UK banks’ costs 4% and capital needs 30% and see the loss of 40,000 jobs

    EU incompetence set to kill over 100000 europeans each year
    And another probable consequence of Brexit is that our government is likely too frightened of scaring off German car makers to fine them the billions that (for example) the US has.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 39,546
    edited August 1
    Mr. Eagles, wunderbar! [I really liked German at school but only ever use it now in videogames. And occasionally writing].

    Edited extra bit: also, mail for you.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,364

    Good morning, everyone.

    Just went to the main site, as usual, and when I was doing something else it redirected me to some 'competition winner' page (I think it must have been some sort of advert wankery). Did a quick virus scan and it looks clean, but I really despise that sort of nonsense (had auto-playing audio too).

    There shouldn't be anything like that on the site. I keep a close watch on our advertising partner displays, and redirects/pop-ups are strictly disallowed. It may be that you accidentally clicked on a link?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 4,099
    edited August 1
    Mr Dancer,

    There was strong evidence about the toxicity of small diesel particulates years ago, but the politicians were too busy burnishing their green credentials ... petrol engines produce more carbon dioxide than diesel - encourage diesel. They can only have one scientific fact in their minds at a time.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 7,368
    edited August 1

    Mr. Brooke, not 'when'. 'If'. The pro-EU side tend to love Germany too much to say anything bad about Mutti, and the sceptical side are probably more concerned with leaving to spend much time on this.

    It does sound like a major scandal, but, as we saw with Osborne on a yacht, sometimes nonsense gets headlines and sometimes serious stuff does not.

    Is it really a Leave v Remain thing? It looks much more like a "These are huge companies that generate vast tax revenues and employ a lot of people, while millions drive diesel cars and it would cost a ridiculous amount to right the wrongs" thing. It's what gets Jeremy Corbyn out of bed in the morning, though, so maybe he will seize on it.

    Disclosure - I drive a diesel car. Not a German one, though!

    Surely it would be a very serious scandal if the Germans had helped produce the rules which their own firms then broke whilst everyone else obeyed them.

    I drive a diesel too - though not very much and most of the mileage is down out of towns and cities.
  • https://www.ft.com/content/9fdf35a4-7610-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71

    Brexit set to raise UK banks’ costs 4% and capital needs 30% and see the loss of 40,000 jobs

    Sort of related news.

    We're no longer opening an office in Paris because of Brexit.

    We're opening one in Germany instead.

    Hurrah for hurrah.
    buy a gas mask
    Am used to it. I've been buying German cars since 2000, and so has my father since 2005.

    Though I did like my one Italian car I bought nearly a decade ago.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 12,713

    PB gets excited about Donalds reality TV show

    Meanwhile the German car scandal deepens with more accusations the German government hid the truth about diesel emissions so its car makers could sell diesel engines

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/expertentweets-zur-automafia-benebelt-vom-diesel-15130491.html

    In excess of 100,000 Europeans annually will have suffered a premature death because of diesel fumes with health care costs in the UK estimated at up to £3bn

    The EU is doing nothing

    At what point does this hit mainstream politics ?

    When dullards stop getting excited that the US President has sacked a PR man. Politics is becoming Love Island for middle class middle aged anoraks.
    I'm a President get me out of here
    Emily Matliss told a good joke on Newsnight last evening: no one has told Trump that this isn't The Apprentice show and so he doesn't have fire someone ever week.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 24,907

    PB gets excited about Donalds reality TV show

    Meanwhile the German car scandal deepens with more accusations the German government hid the truth about diesel emissions so its car makers could sell diesel engines

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/expertentweets-zur-automafia-benebelt-vom-diesel-15130491.html

    In excess of 100,000 Europeans annually will have suffered a premature death because of diesel fumes with health care costs in the UK estimated at up to £3bn

    The EU is doing nothing

    At what point does this hit mainstream politics ?

    No-one is doing anything. It is a total scandal. But it seems that too many people have too much to lose. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose, as the Welsh say.

    Someone is doing something. Isn't there a brewing class action in US that could potentially ruin some of these german car companies?

    True - there is always a US class action. The issue the Americans have is that the German auto-makers are huge investors in the US and employ tens of thousands of Americans in very well paid jobs. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 7,736

    ydoethur said:

    PB gets excited about Donalds reality TV show

    Meanwhile the German car scandal deepens with more accusations the German government hid the truth about diesel emissions so its car makers could sell diesel engines

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/expertentweets-zur-automafia-benebelt-vom-diesel-15130491.html

    In excess of 100,000 Europeans annually will have suffered a premature death because of diesel fumes with health care costs in the UK estimated at up to £3bn

    The EU is doing nothing

    At what point does this hit mainstream politics ?

    Is that from the article? My German could be better but I thought it said 50,000 Germans were dying. In which case surely the figure for Europe as a whole would be a lot higher than 100,000?

    That does of course make the scandal far worse (says the diesel driver) but remember, that many people a year died from smoking in the UK alone in the early 1980s (including passive smoking) and there was no concerted action until less than 15 years ago, which even then was fiercely opposed.

    People don't always react the way you expect them to, or even the way they should do.
    the issue here isnt just the deaths, its the legislation EU wide has banned the sale of diesel engines which dont meet defined emission standards. VW AUdi Porsche Daimler and BMW have been caught selling products which dont meet the standard. Worse the German Government is facing a growing body of evidence that not only did they know this but the Federal Government colluded to make the results fit.

    Since this is an EU matter the silence from Brussels is deafening

    A fair point.

    Yesterday I mentioned the BSE scandal which showed the EU in a very unflattering light. But a much bigger and longer running scandal was that for years the Dutch and Danish flagrantly breached animal welfare standards on pigs and calves for bacon and veal, keeping them in illegal cages because it was cheap. So naturally, they undercut those who were obeying the law - like the British - and damaged their home industry (in the case of veal, beyond repair, in pork, just very badly).

    Now they have more or less cornered the market, they are slowly improving their standards - and raising their prices. All with at the very least the passive connivance of the EU.

    When Jeremy Corbyn criticises the EU for being in hock to business, I have to admit I think he has a point - and that is something I seldom say about him.

    That doesn't mean it doesn't do a lot of good too, but it does make the attempts of its more lunatic fringe of admirers, like that pompous crook Verhofstadt or the drink-sodden Juncker to pass it off as an unmitigated good both dishonest and extremely aggravating.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 24,907
    tlg86 said:

    Mr. Brooke, not 'when'. 'If'. The pro-EU side tend to love Germany too much to say anything bad about Mutti, and the sceptical side are probably more concerned with leaving to spend much time on this.

    It does sound like a major scandal, but, as we saw with Osborne on a yacht, sometimes nonsense gets headlines and sometimes serious stuff does not.

    Is it really a Leave v Remain thing? It looks much more like a "These are huge companies that generate vast tax revenues and employ a lot of people, while millions drive diesel cars and it would cost a ridiculous amount to right the wrongs" thing. It's what gets Jeremy Corbyn out of bed in the morning, though, so maybe he will seize on it.

    Disclosure - I drive a diesel car. Not a German one, though!

    Surely it would be a very serious scandal if the Germans had helped produce the rules which their own firms then broke whilst everyone else obeyed them.

    I drive a diesel too - though not very much and most of the mileage is down out of towns and cities.

    It would be a huge scandal. But the question is what you do about it. Is anyone really going to shut them down and make people give up their German diesel cars? The fact that no Brexit politician seems to be making a fuss about this says to me this is not a Leave v Remain thing.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 39,546
    Mr. 1000, I don't think that's possible as I typed in the address, then went into other tabs before anything loaded.

    If that's the case then, despite everything appearing clean I *might* have a problem. *sighs*

    Of course. After two months of endless shit luck, the 1st of August suggests it might be three in a row. Marvellous.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 7,736

    Mr. Brooke, not 'when'. 'If'. The pro-EU side tend to love Germany too much to say anything bad about Mutti, and the sceptical side are probably more concerned with leaving to spend much time on this.

    It does sound like a major scandal, but, as we saw with Osborne on a yacht, sometimes nonsense gets headlines and sometimes serious stuff does not.

    Is it really a Leave v Remain thing? It looks much more like a "These are huge companies that generate vast tax revenues and employ a lot of people, while millions drive diesel cars and it would cost a ridiculous amount to right the wrongs" thing. It's what gets Jeremy Corbyn out of bed in the morning, though, so maybe he will seize on it.

    Disclosure - I drive a diesel car. Not a German one, though!

    Does a Skoda count as German?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 24,907
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    PB gets excited about Donalds reality TV show

    Meanwhile the German car scandal deepens with more accusations the German government hid the truth about diesel emissions so its car makers could sell diesel engines

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/expertentweets-zur-automafia-benebelt-vom-diesel-15130491.html

    In excess of 100,000 Europeans annually will have suffered a premature death because of diesel fumes with health care costs in the UK estimated at up to £3bn

    The EU is doing nothing

    At what point does this hit mainstream politics ?

    Is that from the article? My German could be better but I thought it said 50,000 Germans were dying. In which case surely the figure for Europe as a whole would be a lot higher than 100,000?

    That does of course make the scandal far worse (says the diesel driver) but remember, that many people a year died from smoking in the UK alone in the early 1980s (including passive smoking) and there was no concerted action until less than 15 years ago, which even then was fiercely opposed.

    People don't always react the way you expect them to, or even the way they should do.
    the issue here isnt just the deaths, its the legislation EU wide has banned the sale of diesel engines which dont meet defined emission standards. VW AUdi Porsche Daimler and BMW have been caught selling products which dont meet the standard. Worse the German Government is facing a growing body of evidence that not only did they know this but the Federal Government colluded to make the results fit.

    Since this is an EU matter the silence from Brussels is deafening

    A fair point.

    Yesterday I mentioned the BSE scandal which showed the EU in a very unflattering light. But a much bigger and longer running scandal was that for years the Dutch and Danish flagrantly breached animal welfare standards on pigs and calves for bacon and veal, keeping them in illegal cages because it was cheap. So naturally, they undercut those who were obeying the law - like the British - and damaged their home industry (in the case of veal, beyond repair, in pork, just very badly).

    Now they have more or less cornered the market, they are slowly improving their standards - and raising their prices. All with at the very least the passive connivance of the EU.

    When Jeremy Corbyn criticises the EU for being in hock to business, I have to admit I think he has a point - and that is something I seldom say about him.

    That doesn't mean it doesn't do a lot of good too, but it does make the attempts of its more lunatic fringe of admirers, like that pompous crook Verhofstadt or the drink-sodden Juncker to pass it off as an unmitigated good both dishonest and extremely aggravating.

    Yep - totally agree.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 12,713
    How long to we give Kelly?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Mr. 1000, I don't think that's possible as I typed in the address, then went into other tabs before anything loaded.

    If that's the case then, despite everything appearing clean I *might* have a problem. *sighs*

    Of course. After two months of endless shit luck, the 1st of August suggests it might be three in a row. Marvellous.

    The easiest way for your luck to change instantly is by following my F1 tips :D

    On a serious note, Mr Dancer, I hope your book sales are doing well.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 12,713

    PB gets excited about Donalds reality TV show

    Meanwhile the German car scandal deepens with more accusations the German government hid the truth about diesel emissions so its car makers could sell diesel engines

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/expertentweets-zur-automafia-benebelt-vom-diesel-15130491.html

    In excess of 100,000 Europeans annually will have suffered a premature death because of diesel fumes with health care costs in the UK estimated at up to £3bn

    The EU is doing nothing

    At what point does this hit mainstream politics ?

    No-one is doing anything. It is a total scandal. But it seems that too many people have too much to lose. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose, as the Welsh say.

    Someone is doing something. Isn't there a brewing class action in US that could potentially ruin some of these german car companies?

    True - there is always a US class action. The issue the Americans have is that the German auto-makers are huge investors in the US and employ tens of thousands of Americans in very well paid jobs. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

    In the US the law will take its own course, no matter how many jobs at stake. It will probably take years though.
  • Mr. Eagles, wunderbar! [I really liked German at school but only ever use it now in videogames. And occasionally writing].

    Edited extra bit: also, mail for you.

    The German language is my favourite language after Latin and French.

    I also like the German people.

    Replied to you.
  • I pointed this out during the campaign.


  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 7,368
    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Brooke, not 'when'. 'If'. The pro-EU side tend to love Germany too much to say anything bad about Mutti, and the sceptical side are probably more concerned with leaving to spend much time on this.

    It does sound like a major scandal, but, as we saw with Osborne on a yacht, sometimes nonsense gets headlines and sometimes serious stuff does not.

    Is it really a Leave v Remain thing? It looks much more like a "These are huge companies that generate vast tax revenues and employ a lot of people, while millions drive diesel cars and it would cost a ridiculous amount to right the wrongs" thing. It's what gets Jeremy Corbyn out of bed in the morning, though, so maybe he will seize on it.

    Disclosure - I drive a diesel car. Not a German one, though!

    Does a Skoda count as German?
    Yes.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 24,907

    PB gets excited about Donalds reality TV show

    Meanwhile the German car scandal deepens with more accusations the German government hid the truth about diesel emissions so its car makers could sell diesel engines

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/expertentweets-zur-automafia-benebelt-vom-diesel-15130491.html

    In excess of 100,000 Europeans annually will have suffered a premature death because of diesel fumes with health care costs in the UK estimated at up to £3bn

    The EU is doing nothing

    At what point does this hit mainstream politics ?

    No-one is doing anything. It is a total scandal. But it seems that too many people have too much to lose. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose, as the Welsh say.

    Someone is doing something. Isn't there a brewing class action in US that could potentially ruin some of these german car companies?

    True - there is always a US class action. The issue the Americans have is that the German auto-makers are huge investors in the US and employ tens of thousands of Americans in very well paid jobs. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

    In the US the law will take its own course, no matter how many jobs at stake. It will probably take years though.

    And years. And that's if there is no deal.

    What should happen is prison for those involved.

  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 7,016
    Diesel engines are less polluting than petrol engines according to this report
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/07/170717110429.htm

    So where do we go from here?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 7,736
    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Brooke, not 'when'. 'If'. The pro-EU side tend to love Germany too much to say anything bad about Mutti, and the sceptical side are probably more concerned with leaving to spend much time on this.

    It does sound like a major scandal, but, as we saw with Osborne on a yacht, sometimes nonsense gets headlines and sometimes serious stuff does not.

    Is it really a Leave v Remain thing? It looks much more like a "These are huge companies that generate vast tax revenues and employ a lot of people, while millions drive diesel cars and it would cost a ridiculous amount to right the wrongs" thing. It's what gets Jeremy Corbyn out of bed in the morning, though, so maybe he will seize on it.

    Disclosure - I drive a diesel car. Not a German one, though!

    Does a Skoda count as German?
    Yes.
    Can we double-Czech that please?

    You will doubtless be pleased to hear I have work to do. Have a good morning!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 7,368

    Diesel engines are less polluting than petrol engines according to this report
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/07/170717110429.htm

    So where do we go from here?

    I think it's all about which type of pollution you are talking about:

    That said, it is true that older diesel cars do pollute more than gasoline cars, because they don't have DPFs, and diesel cars in general emit far more nitrogen oxides, which cause smog and acid rain, the study also noted.

    The rush to get everyone over to diesels was driven by a concern for global warming at the expense of air quality.
This discussion has been closed.