Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Amber Rudd moves to joint 3rd CON leader favourite following s

SystemSystem Posts: 3,967
edited August 6 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Amber Rudd moves to joint 3rd CON leader favourite following speculation that she’s got Ruth Davidson’s backing

There’s been a flurry of speculation over Amber Rudd’s leadership chances following her trip to Scotland and a private meeting with the Scottish Tory leader, Ruth Davidson.

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • PClippPClipp Posts: 1,108
    edited August 6
    First. Like Russ.......
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 24,181
    Second like Remain...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 6,454
    edited August 6
    Thing is, unless everyone coalesces around one candidate and May is chopped down quickly, a la 2003, a leadership contest would probably make life impossible for the Tories due to these time-limited negotiations. They can't afford to be seen to be sabotaging them even though we all realise by now that one side is interested in coming to a deal. And, quite simply, there is no unity candidate even if Davis were minded to withdraw a second time. For that reason I really can't see them having an election in the next twelve months.

    A more plausible scenario is May quits at the 2018 conference and is replaced by somebody with the job of selling whatever deal (or no deal) there is, possibly via another election (which incidentally would also be the only hope, and a slim one at that, that Corbyn has of becoming PM). But again it requires a unity candidate and Rudd is not likely to be it.

    I still think the ones to watch are ex-ministers on the back benches who have missed all the trouble. What an idiot Osborne looks like now.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 37,194
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Doethur, to [roughly] quote Grey Fox, you're saying she's neither alive nor dead, a shadow trapped in a world of lights?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 16,461
    How does an exit figure of £36 billion sound?
  • felixfelix Posts: 6,575
    Russ sounds interesting - s/he might get my vote! :)
  • felixfelix Posts: 6,575

    How does an exit figure of £36 billion sound?

    Sounds pretty likely I'd have thought. Depends what the UK gets for the money.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 30,811

    How does an exit figure of £36 billion sound?

    £350m a week for the NHS...
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 6,492
    Electing Theresa May to replace Cameron took three weeks or so. The idea that the country will be paralysed for months is nonsense, even if you add a week to consult the members.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)_leadership_election,_2016

    Ruth Davidson's support is useful but the question for Amber Rudd is whether Theresa May will help ease her into Number 10. It would not surprise me and that is how I'd bet if a contest were called tomorrow.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 6,492
    Jacob Rees-Mogg is presumably in the betting only to pay for Shadsy's Christmas party. He has no expressed desire for, or experience of, high office. He is a poor man's Boris Johnson. The Moggster is also getting too old for his young fogey act.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 15,320

    How does an exit figure of £36 billion sound?

    about 2 years of continued membership
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 8,348
    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 21,220

    How does an exit figure of £36 billion sound?

    If that is our starting price then it will be going up.

    I don't think it sellable to the country though.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 21,220

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 6,492
    edited August 6

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    Rudd would get a bounce just from being prime minister, but if CCHQ were worried then Rudd would have a choice of safe seats including Maidenhead where TMay would be stepping down.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 8,348

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Would agree with that.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 15,320

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    better for who ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 6,454
    edited August 6

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Doethur, to [roughly] quote Grey Fox, you're saying she's neither alive nor dead, a shadow trapped in a world of lights?

    A very poetic way of putting it, Mr Dancer!

    Electing Theresa May to replace Cameron took three weeks or so. The idea that the country will be paralysed for months is nonsense, even if you add a week to consult the members.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)_leadership_election,_2016

    So ballots can be printed, posted, filled in and returned all in a week? I admire your optimism. In 2005, which is the real parallel, it took two months from Howard's resignation, and that ignores the fact it had been running unofficially for five months already.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 5,004

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    better for who ?
    The country.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 15,320
    edited August 6

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    better for who ?
    The country.
    unlikely

    last time she ran a front line campaign she lost
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 8,584
    ydoethur said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Doethur, to [roughly] quote Grey Fox, you're saying she's neither alive nor dead, a shadow trapped in a world of lights?

    A very poetic way of putting it, Mr Dancer!

    Electing Theresa May to replace Cameron took three weeks or so. The idea that the country will be paralysed for months is nonsense, even if you add a week to consult the members.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)_leadership_election,_2016

    So ballots can be printed, posted, filled in and returned all in a week? I admire your optimism. In 2005, which is the real parallel, it took two months from Howard's resignation, and that ignores the fact it had been running unofficially for five months already.
    The two worst things (politically) for the country are a) and election and b) a Tory leadership election.
    A Tory coronation would be somewhat less bad.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 30,811

    The two worst things (politically) for the country are a) and election and b) a Tory leadership election.
    A Tory coronation would be somewhat less bad.

    Why do you hate democracy?
  • PongPong Posts: 3,888
    edited August 6

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And we could see some hyper-localised dynamics affecting specific constituencies in a post-brexit election. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north, but if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could lose her seat.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 21,220

    ydoethur said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Doethur, to [roughly] quote Grey Fox, you're saying she's neither alive nor dead, a shadow trapped in a world of lights?

    A very poetic way of putting it, Mr Dancer!

    Electing Theresa May to replace Cameron took three weeks or so. The idea that the country will be paralysed for months is nonsense, even if you add a week to consult the members.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)_leadership_election,_2016

    So ballots can be printed, posted, filled in and returned all in a week? I admire your optimism. In 2005, which is the real parallel, it took two months from Howard's resignation, and that ignores the fact it had been running unofficially for five months already.
    The two worst things (politically) for the country are a) and election and b) a Tory leadership election.
    A Tory coronation would be somewhat less bad.
    I would disagree. May is a zombie PM. A Tory leadership contest then GE is just what the country needs to resolve its contradictions.

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    better for who ?
    The country.
    unlikely

    last time she ran a front line campaign she lost
    One more thing that attracts me to her as Tory leader!

    :)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 21,220
    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 6,454
    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And we could see some hyper-localised dynamics affecting specific constituencies in a post-brexit election. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north, but if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    I must confess I hadn't realised there were still fishermen in Hastings. But this article was very interesting;

    http://fishingnews.co.uk/news/commercial-fishing-hastings/
  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 954

    ydoethur said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Doethur, to [roughly] quote Grey Fox, you're saying she's neither alive nor dead, a shadow trapped in a world of lights?

    A very poetic way of putting it, Mr Dancer!

    Electing Theresa May to replace Cameron took three weeks or so. The idea that the country will be paralysed for months is nonsense, even if you add a week to consult the members.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)_leadership_election,_2016

    So ballots can be printed, posted, filled in and returned all in a week? I admire your optimism. In 2005, which is the real parallel, it took two months from Howard's resignation, and that ignores the fact it had been running unofficially for five months already.
    The two worst things (politically) for the country are a) and election and b) a Tory leadership election.
    A Tory coronation would be somewhat less bad.
    I agree, the country is tired of voting, just get on with governing.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 15,320

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    make your mind up

    I thought hard brexit meant no jobs no trade
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 6,454

    ydoethur said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Doethur, to [roughly] quote Grey Fox, you're saying she's neither alive nor dead, a shadow trapped in a world of lights?

    A very poetic way of putting it, Mr Dancer!

    Electing Theresa May to replace Cameron took three weeks or so. The idea that the country will be paralysed for months is nonsense, even if you add a week to consult the members.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)_leadership_election,_2016

    So ballots can be printed, posted, filled in and returned all in a week? I admire your optimism. In 2005, which is the real parallel, it took two months from Howard's resignation, and that ignores the fact it had been running unofficially for five months already.
    The two worst things (politically) for the country are a) and election and b) a Tory leadership election.
    A Tory coronation would be somewhat less bad.
    I would disagree. May is a zombie PM. A Tory leadership contest then GE is just what the country needs to resolve its contradictions.

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    better for who ?
    The country.
    unlikely

    last time she ran a front line campaign she lost
    One more thing that attracts me to her as Tory leader!

    :)
    May I be mischievous at this point and remind you that Corbyn has lost every single major campaign he has ever been involved in, except for the Labour leadership elections?
  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 954

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    OK I'll rise to it, why would there be a lorry park in Hastings?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 13,037

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    OK I'll rise to it, why would there be a lorry park in Hastings?
    Ah, you must be one step ahead of us. Have you concluded that the government will cave in on leaving the customs union too?
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 1,970

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    OK I'll rise to it, why would there be a lorry park in Hastings?
    They'll be full of chlorine washed chickens for the food banks, I expect
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 6,492
    edited August 6
    ydoethur said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Doethur, to [roughly] quote Grey Fox, you're saying she's neither alive nor dead, a shadow trapped in a world of lights?

    A very poetic way of putting it, Mr Dancer!

    Electing Theresa May to replace Cameron took three weeks or so. The idea that the country will be paralysed for months is nonsense, even if you add a week to consult the members.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)_leadership_election,_2016

    So ballots can be printed, posted, filled in and returned all in a week? I admire your optimism. In 2005, which is the real parallel, it took two months from Howard's resignation, and that ignores the fact it had been running unofficially for five months already.
    Printing and posting ballot papers in a day for delivery the next day is feasible. How long does it take members to put a cross on a piece of paper?

    Time could also be saved by having members' ballot papers printed at the start and trusting members not to vote for those already eliminated. Time could also be saved by reducing the gaps between MPs' voting rounds.

    It is time for Conservative leadership elections to feel the white heat of the technological revolution. The days when ballot papers were hand rolled on maidens' thighs are behind us.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 21,220
    edited August 6

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    make your mind up

    I thought hard brexit meant no jobs no trade
    There will be fewer lorries, but stopping for longer in Kent.

    It won't just be bacon butties and prostitutes though, there would be good white collar jobs as customs officers.

    Rye is quite smart and picturesque, but Hastings is quite rundown. Some lovely old Victorian townhouses turned into slums. It could gentrify well if there were better jobs.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 4,117

    How does an exit figure of £36 billion sound?

    The money won't be a big issue as long as it is no more than we pay now. £36 billion/£60 billion is haggle territory. Citizenship will be what both sides respectively offer. The other side can't force better terms. Ireland will be what it is. Neither side wants more disruption than is necessary.

    The big issues come with the second and third rounds of the negotiations and what's not currently being discussed. The UK wants a deep and comprehensive trade deal with the EU but rejects the deepest and most comprehensive one. How much continuity will there be on March 30 2019?
  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 954

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    OK I'll rise to it, why would there be a lorry park in Hastings?
    Ah, you must be one step ahead of us. Have you concluded that the government will cave in on leaving the customs union too?
    I've concluded nothing, I'm interested in why there'll be a lorry park in Hastings.

    Perhaps you can tell me?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 15,320

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    make your mind up

    I thought hard brexit meant no jobs no trade
    There will be fewer lorries, but stopping for longer in Kent.

    It won't just be bacon butties and prostitutes though, there would be good white collar jobs as customs officers.

    Rye is quite smarth and picturesque, but Hastings is quite rundown. Some lovely old Victorian townhouses turned into slums. It could gentrify well if there were better jobs.
    your class snobbery shines through

  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 954

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    OK I'll rise to it, why would there be a lorry park in Hastings?
    They'll be full of chlorine washed chickens for the food banks, I expect
    Hahaha!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 13,037

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    OK I'll rise to it, why would there be a lorry park in Hastings?
    Ah, you must be one step ahead of us. Have you concluded that the government will cave in on leaving the customs union too?
    I've concluded nothing, I'm interested in why there'll be a lorry park in Hastings.

    Perhaps you can tell me?
    Because the vindictive EU will insist on customs controls even though they know full well that we're British so there's no need.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 6,454

    ydoethur said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Doethur, to [roughly] quote Grey Fox, you're saying she's neither alive nor dead, a shadow trapped in a world of lights?

    A very poetic way of putting it, Mr Dancer!

    Electing Theresa May to replace Cameron took three weeks or so. The idea that the country will be paralysed for months is nonsense, even if you add a week to consult the members.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)_leadership_election,_2016

    So ballots can be printed, posted, filled in and returned all in a week? I admire your optimism. In 2005, which is the real parallel, it took two months from Howard's resignation, and that ignores the fact it had been running unofficially for five months already.
    Printing and posting ballot papers in a day for delivery the next day is feasible. How long does it take members to put a cross on a piece of paper?

    Time could also be saved by having members' ballot papers printed at the start and trusting members not to vote for those already eliminated. Time could also be saved by reducing the gaps between MPs' voting rounds.

    It is time for Conservative leadership elections to feel the white heat of the technological revolution. The days when ballot papers were hand rolled on maidens' thighs are behind us.

    No, it really wouldn't. It takes at least five weeks because of verifying the membership register and the returned ballots. I know this because my Union had a similar problem and had to put the deadline back as a result. I suggested an electronic ballot but was told the system wasn't secure enough, and anyway that required verifying email addresses which for some peculiar reason that they never explained took longer.

    Moreover, do you think they would have the money for express delivery on all ballots?

    Finally, putting the wrong names on a ballot invalidates it. This is why when a candidate dies the election has to be postponed.

    While I appreciate your passionate hatred for May means you don't care how she's removed you just want her out - I sympathise, by the way, as it's how I feel about the Jezziah - will you just pause and think about the logistics and the implications before making silly claims?

    Please tell me one contested leadership election from any party that has gone to the membership in the last 25 up years that has been resolved in less than two months. Most of them take four.
  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 954

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    OK I'll rise to it, why would there be a lorry park in Hastings?
    Ah, you must be one step ahead of us. Have you concluded that the government will cave in on leaving the customs union too?
    I've concluded nothing, I'm interested in why there'll be a lorry park in Hastings.

    Perhaps you can tell me?
    Because the vindictive EU will insist on customs controls even though they know full well that we're British so there's no need.
    I suggest you look at a map.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 23,026

    How does an exit figure of £36 billion sound?

    Sounds to me like an opening offer and an admission that the British negotiation up to now has been an almost total failure!! It will surely kill David Davis's leadership ambitions. That, at least, would be good news for the country. It's also Boris's chance to flounce out of cabinet and take explicit leadership of the Empire 2.0 wing of the swivel-eyed Brexiteer party.

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 4,117
    edited August 6
    ydoethur said:

    Thing is, unless everyone coalesces around one candidate and May is chopped down quickly, a la 2003, a leadership contest would probably make life impossible for the Tories due to these time-limited negotiations. They can't afford to be seen to be sabotaging them even though we all realise by now that one side is interested in coming to a deal. And, quite simply, there is no unity candidate even if Davis were minded to withdraw a second time. For that reason I really can't see them having an election in the next twelve months.

    A more plausible scenario is May quits at the 2018 conference and is replaced by somebody with the job of selling whatever deal (or no deal) there is, possibly via another election (which incidentally would also be the only hope, and a slim one at that, that Corbyn has of becoming PM). But again it requires a unity candidate and Rudd is not likely to be it.

    I still think the ones to watch are ex-ministers on the back benches who have missed all the trouble. What an idiot Osborne looks like now.

    The Conservatives are pretty much a Leave party now so the selected l party leader needs to be an enthusiastic Leaver. By the time May leaves however the country will largely be in a damage limitation mode on Brexit, which requires a pragmatic Remainer. Leavers can't do damage limitation because they can't admit to there being damage to limit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 6,454

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    OK I'll rise to it, why would there be a lorry park in Hastings?
    Ah, you must be one step ahead of us. Have you concluded that the government will cave in on leaving the customs union too?
    I've concluded nothing, I'm interested in why there'll be a lorry park in Hastings.

    Perhaps you can tell me?
    Because the vindictive EU will insist on customs controls even though they know full well that we're British so there's no need.
    In light of this morning's news, I'm thinking they might be better off imposing customs on the Dutch.

    Any bets on nothing actually happening to them? Including no ban on their highly harmful poultry products?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 21,220

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    make your mind up

    I thought hard brexit meant no jobs no trade
    There will be fewer lorries, but stopping for longer in Kent.

    It won't just be bacon butties and prostitutes though, there would be good white collar jobs as customs officers.

    Rye is quite smarth and picturesque, but Hastings is quite rundown. Some lovely old Victorian townhouses turned into slums. It could gentrify well if there were better jobs.
    your class snobbery shines through

    I have an uncle there who works in social services. There is a great deal of social deprivation in the town itself, though the surrounding area is pretty. Hastings has pretty poor transport links, and has little commuting for employment. The seafront has some grand houses that would be worth a fortune up the coast in Brighton.
  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 954

    How does an exit figure of £36 billion sound?

    Sounds to me like an opening offer and an admission that the British negotiation up to now has been an almost total failure!! It will surely kill David Davis's leadership ambitions. That, at least, would be good news for the country. It's also Boris's chance to flounce out of cabinet and take explicit leadership of the Empire 2.0 wing of the swivel-eyed Brexiteer party.

    Phew, I hadn't heard "swivel eyed" for a few weeks. I'm strangely comforted by it.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 15,320
    ydoethur said:

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    OK I'll rise to it, why would there be a lorry park in Hastings?
    Ah, you must be one step ahead of us. Have you concluded that the government will cave in on leaving the customs union too?
    I've concluded nothing, I'm interested in why there'll be a lorry park in Hastings.

    Perhaps you can tell me?
    Because the vindictive EU will insist on customs controls even though they know full well that we're British so there's no need.
    In light of this morning's news, I'm thinking they might be better off imposing customs on the Dutch.

    Any bets on nothing actually happening to them? Including no ban on their highly harmful poultry products?
    Nothing will happen

    the Germans have just unilaterally decided their diesel engines dont kill anyone

    so thats OK
  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 954

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    make your mind up

    I thought hard brexit meant no jobs no trade
    There will be fewer lorries, but stopping for longer in Kent.

    It won't just be bacon butties and prostitutes though, there would be good white collar jobs as customs officers.

    Rye is quite smarth and picturesque, but Hastings is quite rundown. Some lovely old Victorian townhouses turned into slums. It could gentrify well if there were better jobs.
    your class snobbery shines through

    I have an uncle there who works in social services. There is a great deal of social deprivation in the town itself, though the surrounding area is pretty. Hastings has pretty poor transport links, and has little commuting for employment. The seafront has some grand houses that would be worth a fortune up the coast in Brighton.
    For some reason you are yet to expand on why there'll be a lorry park in Hastings
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 8,584
    Scott_P said:

    The two worst things (politically) for the country are a) and election and b) a Tory leadership election.
    A Tory coronation would be somewhat less bad.

    Why do you hate democracy?
    What makes you post that? A remarkable non sequitur, unless you are of the opinion that a constant state of uncertainily is desiirable. In which case you are an anarchist!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 15,320

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    make your mind up

    I thought hard brexit meant no jobs no trade
    There will be fewer lorries, but stopping for longer in Kent.

    It won't just be bacon butties and prostitutes though, there would be good white collar jobs as customs officers.

    Rye is quite smarth and picturesque, but Hastings is quite rundown. Some lovely old Victorian townhouses turned into slums. It could gentrify well if there were better jobs.
    your class snobbery shines through

    I have an uncle there who works in social services. There is a great deal of social deprivation in the town itself, though the surrounding area is pretty. Hastings has pretty poor transport links, and has little commuting for employment. The seafront has some grand houses that would be worth a fortune up the coast in Brighton.
    yadda

    english middle calss property fixation

    maybe you can BTL to the chavs down there
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 6,454

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    make your mind up

    I thought hard brexit meant no jobs no trade
    There will be fewer lorries, but stopping for longer in Kent.

    It won't just be bacon butties and prostitutes though, there would be good white collar jobs as customs officers.

    Rye is quite smarth and picturesque, but Hastings is quite rundown. Some lovely old Victorian townhouses turned into slums. It could gentrify well if there were better jobs.
    your class snobbery shines through

    I have an uncle there who works in social services. There is a great deal of social deprivation in the town itself, though the surrounding area is pretty. Hastings has pretty poor transport links, and has little commuting for employment. The seafront has some grand houses that would be worth a fortune up the coast in Brighton.
    Takes a surprisingly long time to get to London by train - two hours? I could do it from Lichfield in not much more than half that. Mind you it does cost twice as much and it's a bugger to park at Trent Valley.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 21,220

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    OK I'll rise to it, why would there be a lorry park in Hastings?
    Ah, you must be one step ahead of us. Have you concluded that the government will cave in on leaving the customs union too?
    I've concluded nothing, I'm interested in why there'll be a lorry park in Hastings.

    Perhaps you can tell me?
    Because the vindictive EU will insist on customs controls even though they know full well that we're British so there's no need.
    I suggest you look at a map.
    I think the transport links from Hastings are poor, and would need improvement to disperse the permanent Operation Stack.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 6,454
    Anyway, I have to go and perform on a mighty three manual organ this morning. I've got a piece that needs an 8 foot horn for my climax and I need a couple of dry runs to get it right.

    Have a good morning.
  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 954

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    OK I'll rise to it, why would there be a lorry park in Hastings?
    Ah, you must be one step ahead of us. Have you concluded that the government will cave in on leaving the customs union too?
    I've concluded nothing, I'm interested in why there'll be a lorry park in Hastings.

    Perhaps you can tell me?
    Because the vindictive EU will insist on customs controls even though they know full well that we're British so there's no need.
    I suggest you look at a map.
    I think the transport links from Hastings are poor, and would need improvement to disperse the permanent Operation Stack.
    This is extraordinary.

    I've lived in Dover for most of my life, it is the busiest passenger port in Europe, Operation Stack cripples the town. Hastings is at least 1 1/2 hours from Dover along coastal roads, it has zero impact on Dover, I've now been told by headbanging Remainers that it will be a lorry park and subject to customs control.

    Please continue with your errant nonsense, it proves how weak your arguments are.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 21,220

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    make your mind up

    I thought hard brexit meant no jobs no trade
    There will be fewer lorries, but stopping for longer in Kent.

    It won't just be bacon butties and prostitutes though, there would be good white collar jobs as customs officers.

    Rye is quite smarth and picturesque, but Hastings is quite rundown. Some lovely old Victorian townhouses turned into slums. It could gentrify well if there were better jobs.
    your class snobbery shines through

    I have an uncle there who works in social services. There is a great deal of social deprivation in the town itself, though the surrounding area is pretty. Hastings has pretty poor transport links, and has little commuting for employment. The seafront has some grand houses that would be worth a fortune up the coast in Brighton.
    yadda

    english middle calss property fixation

    maybe you can BTL to the chavs down there
    BTL is not my cup of tea, but undoubtably Hastings has considerable social problems, like many East coast towns. Drugs, petty crime, disability benefits, alcoholism, low educational achievement and low paid employment. It is a rather sad and depressing place, whose best years were a century ago.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 15,320

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    make your mind up

    I thought hard brexit meant no jobs no trade
    There will be fewer lorries, but stopping for longer in Kent.

    It won't just be bacon butties and prostitutes though, there would be good white collar jobs as customs officers.

    Rye is quite smarth and picturesque, but Hastings is quite rundown. Some lovely old Victorian townhouses turned into slums. It could gentrify well if there were better jobs.
    your class snobbery shines through

    I have an uncle there who works in social services. There is a great deal of social deprivation in the town itself, though the surrounding area is pretty. Hastings has pretty poor transport links, and has little commuting for employment. The seafront has some grand houses that would be worth a fortune up the coast in Brighton.
    yadda

    english middle calss property fixation

    maybe you can BTL to the chavs down there
    BTL is not my cup of tea, but undoubtably Hastings has considerable social problems, like many East coast towns. Drugs, petty crime, disability benefits, alcoholism, low educational achievement and low paid employment. It is a rather sad and depressing place, whose best years were a century ago.
    how could it have social problems ?

    we're still in the EU,

    I thought all the problems were meant to start when we left ?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 21,220

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    OK I'll rise to it, why would there be a lorry park in Hastings?
    Ah, you must be one step ahead of us. Have you concluded that the government will cave in on leaving the customs union too?
    I've concluded nothing, I'm interested in why there'll be a lorry park in Hastings.

    Perhaps you can tell me?
    Because the vindictive EU will insist on customs controls even though they know full well that we're British so there's no need.
    I suggest you look at a map.
    I think the transport links from Hastings are poor, and would need improvement to disperse the permanent Operation Stack.
    This is extraordinary.

    I've lived in Dover for most of my life, it is the busiest passenger port in Europe, Operation Stack cripples the town. Hastings is at least 1 1/2 hours from Dover along coastal roads, it has zero impact on Dover, I've now been told by headbanging Remainers that it will be a lorry park and subject to customs control.

    Please continue with your errant nonsense, it proves how weak your arguments are.
    So sadly Hastings misses out on that opportunity too.

    That Brexit dividend really is a mirage for the poor people of Hastings isn't it?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 9,112
    edited August 6
    If the election largely reruns 2017 (a huge If), it may be relevant that the Independent in Rudd's seat in 2017 was a left-wing socialist who sought the Labour nomination and then stood as an indie; he presumably won't stand again. His vote of 0.8% was larger than Rudd's margin.

    I think Rudd would be OK for much the same reasons as May looked a reasonable choice - reasonably solid, no obvious blunders or weird opinions. I doubt if she'd set the country on fire - she'd be seen as a continuity candidate rather than a fresh face. The Tories could do worse but a fresh look might be better for them.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 21,220

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    make your mind up

    I thought hard brexit meant no jobs no trade
    There will be fewer lorries, but stopping for longer in Kent.

    It won't just be bacon butties and prostitutes though, there would be good white collar jobs as customs officers.

    Rye is quite smarth and picturesque, but Hastings is quite rundown. Some lovely old Victorian townhouses turned into slums. It could gentrify well if there were better jobs.
    your class snobbery shines through

    I have an uncle there who works in social services. There is a great deal of social deprivation in the town itself, though the surrounding area is pretty. Hastings has pretty poor transport links, and has little commuting for employment. The seafront has some grand houses that would be worth a fortune up the coast in Brighton.
    yadda

    english middle calss property fixation

    maybe you can BTL to the chavs down there
    BTL is not my cup of tea, but undoubtably Hastings has considerable social problems, like many East coast towns. Drugs, petty crime, disability benefits, alcoholism, low educational achievement and low paid employment. It is a rather sad and depressing place, whose best years were a century ago.
    how could it have social problems ?

    we're still in the EU,

    I thought all the problems were meant to start when we left ?
    No, though they may well be magnified by leaving.

    Neither is the EU the cause of all our problems.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 15,320

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    make your mind up

    I thought hard brexit meant no jobs no trade
    There will be fewer lorries, but stopping for longer in Kent.

    It won't just be bacon butties and prostitutes though, there would be good white collar jobs as customs officers.

    Rye is quite smarth and picturesque, but Hastings is quite rundown. Some lovely old Victorian townhouses turned into slums. It could gentrify well if there were better jobs.
    your class snobbery shines through

    I have an uncle there who works in social services. There is a great deal of social deprivation in the town itself, though the surrounding area is pretty. Hastings has pretty poor transport links, and has little commuting for employment. The seafront has some grand houses that would be worth a fortune up the coast in Brighton.
    yadda

    english middle calss property fixation

    maybe you can BTL to the chavs down there
    BTL is not my cup of tea, but undoubtably Hastings has considerable social problems, like many East coast towns. Drugs, petty crime, disability benefits, alcoholism, low educational achievement and low paid employment. It is a rather sad and depressing place, whose best years were a century ago.
    how could it have social problems ?

    we're still in the EU,

    I thought all the problems were meant to start when we left ?
    No, though they may well be magnified by leaving.

    Neither is the EU the cause of all our problems.
    So simply put, you just like ramping bollocks because you lost.

  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 6,492
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Doethur, to [roughly] quote Grey Fox, you're saying she's neither alive nor dead, a shadow trapped in a world of lights?

    A very poetic way of putting it, Mr Dancer!

    Electing Theresa May to replace Cameron took three weeks or so. The idea that the country will be paralysed for months is nonsense, even if you add a week to consult the members.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)_leadership_election,_2016

    So ballots can be printed, posted, filled in and returned all in a week? I admire your optimism. In 2005, which is the real parallel, it took two months from Howard's resignation, and that ignores the fact it had been running unofficially for five months already.
    Printing and posting ballot papers in a day for delivery the next day is feasible. How long does it take members to put a cross on a piece of paper?

    Time could also be saved by having members' ballot papers printed at the start and trusting members not to vote for those already eliminated. Time could also be saved by reducing the gaps between MPs' voting rounds.

    It is time for Conservative leadership elections to feel the white heat of the technological revolution. The days when ballot papers were hand rolled on maidens' thighs are behind us.

    No, it really wouldn't. It takes at least five weeks because of verifying the membership register and the returned ballots. I know this because my Union had a similar problem and had to put the deadline back as a result. I suggested an electronic ballot but was told the system wasn't secure enough, and anyway that required verifying email addresses which for some peculiar reason that they never explained took longer.

    Moreover, do you think they would have the money for express delivery on all ballots?

    Finally, putting the wrong names on a ballot invalidates it. This is why when a candidate dies the election has to be postponed.

    While I appreciate your passionate hatred for May means you don't care how she's removed you just want her out - I sympathise, by the way, as it's how I feel about the Jezziah - will you just pause and think about the logistics and the implications before making silly claims?

    Please tell me one contested leadership election from any party that has gone to the membership in the last 25 up years that has been resolved in less than two months. Most of them take four.
    I have no hatred of May, passionate or otherwise. I merely point out that leadership elections need not paralyse the country for months at a time.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 21,220

    If the election largely reruns 2017 (a huge If), it may be relevant that the Independent in Rudd's seat in 2017 was a left-wing socialist who sought the Labour nomination and then stood as an indie; he presumably won't stand again. His vote of 0.8% was larger than Rudd's margin.

    I think Rudd would be OK for much the same reasons as May looked a reasonable choice - reasonably solid, no obvious blunders or weird opinions. I doubt if she'd set the country on fire - she'd be seen as a continuity candidate rather than a fresh face. The Tories could do worse but a fresh look might be better for them.

    Rudd has one major advantage over other frontbenchers, in that she actually listens to people and responds intelligently to their questions rather than spewing out a rehearsed bit of spin. This was visible in her debate performance at the GE and Brexit.

    I think that the government of the living dead will continue for some time.

    Best get off to church, we have a Hiroshima themed service that sounds interesting. Play nicely!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 17,300

    BTL is not my cup of tea, but undoubtably Hastings has considerable social problems, like many East coast towns. Drugs, petty crime, disability benefits, alcoholism, low educational achievement and low paid employment. It is a rather sad and depressing place, whose best years were a century ago.

    When I was on my coastal walk, I passed through Hastings mid-morning in a December Saturday. There is a place where there are two promenades, with one above the other. A few men were looking down at something, and one asked if I had a phone for an ambulance.

    A man was lying in blood on the bottom walkway. I eventually found a way down and stayed with him until the police and an ambulance came. He was barely conscious and could only just give me his name. I asked him how long he'd been lying there, and he replied: "two months!"

    I never heard anything else about the story, or even found out where he was bleeding from.

    It certainly gave me an interesting impression of Hastings!
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 9,112
    Somewhat encouraging that the Chinese voted for sanctions on North Korea and then engaged in direct talks with them - surprisingly, China is the most constructive and balanced major power in foreign affairs these days, and I don't say that with any illusions about their political virtue.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/05/un-north-korea-sanctions-nikki-haley

    Apparently the Tories thought closely about taxing gains on house sales, and might do so again:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/05/tax-wealth-or-lose-election-will-tanner-theresa-may-aide-warns-tories

    - that would certainly appeal to some on the centre-left, including me, though how many votes it would swing I'm less sure.
  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 954

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    OK I'll rise to it, why would there be a lorry park in Hastings?
    Ah, you must be one step ahead of us. Have you concluded that the government will cave in on leaving the customs union too?
    I've concluded nothing, I'm interested in why there'll be a lorry park in Hastings.

    Perhaps you can tell me?
    Because the vindictive EU will insist on customs controls even though they know full well that we're British so there's no need.
    I suggest you look at a map.
    I think the transport links from Hastings are poor, and would need improvement to disperse the permanent Operation Stack.
    This is extraordinary.

    I've lived in Dover for most of my life, it is the busiest passenger port in Europe, Operation Stack cripples the town. Hastings is at least 1 1/2 hours from Dover along coastal roads, it has zero impact on Dover, I've now been told by headbanging Remainers that it will be a lorry park and subject to customs control.

    Please continue with your errant nonsense, it proves how weak your arguments are.
    So sadly Hastings misses out on that opportunity too.

    That Brexit dividend really is a mirage for the poor people of Hastings isn't it?
    This is getting ridiculous, what on earth is Hastings missing out?

    Are you finally realising why Leave won? All I read from you is confirmation bias that is miles from reality.
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 100
    You sort of need to make your mind up. You say no deal is a disaster. So the Government contemplates making a decent offer to move the negotiations forward (when their own legal advice is that there is no liability) and you say they are a failure?

    Seems like people like you will only be satisfied if Brexit is a total disaster. The prospect of the sort of deal which you claim is essential seems to fill you with dread.

    Anyway, don't worry yourself. The EU will reject any offer that seeks to tie money to trade even though it is totally obvious to everyone that this is the only viable outcome. Then you will blame the Government again because nothing is ever the EU's fault.

    How does an exit figure of £36 billion sound?

    Sounds to me like an opening offer and an admission that the British negotiation up to now has been an almost total failure!! It will surely kill David Davis's leadership ambitions. That, at least, would be good news for the country. It's also Boris's chance to flounce out of cabinet and take explicit leadership of the Empire 2.0 wing of the swivel-eyed Brexiteer party.

  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 1,004

    Somewhat encouraging that the Chinese voted for sanctions on North Korea and then engaged in direct talks with them - surprisingly, China is the most constructive and balanced major power in foreign affairs these days, and I don't say that with any illusions about their political virtue.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/05/un-north-korea-sanctions-nikki-haley

    Apparently the Tories thought closely about taxing gains on house sales, and might do so again:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/05/tax-wealth-or-lose-election-will-tanner-theresa-may-aide-warns-tories

    - that would certainly appeal to some on the centre-left, including me, though how many votes it would swing I'm less sure.

    Most constructive and balanced major power in world affairs? How can you possibly reconcile that with them propping up the most heinous regime in the world today, as well as their unilateral territory grabs in the South China Sea?
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,292
    Scott_P said:

    The two worst things (politically) for the country are a) and election and b) a Tory leadership election.
    A Tory coronation would be somewhat less bad.

    Why do you hate democracy?
    It's what Peebies hate...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 8,584

    Pong said:

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    Hmm. I'm not sure. UNS is bolloxed right now. And Brexit adds in some very localized factors. Amber PM could potentially win a majority, sweeping up dozens of TM's *did well, but not quite well enough* constituencies in the rural north.

    But if a final brexit deal screws over the Hastings fishermen, she could be toast.

    I'd move her to a safe seat in the shires, ASAP.
    A hard Brexit would turn her constituency into a large lorry park. Jobs galore building and servicing it...
    OK I'll rise to it, why would there be a lorry park in Hastings?
    Ah, you must be one step ahead of us. Have you concluded that the government will cave in on leaving the customs union too?
    I've concluded nothing, I'm interested in why there'll be a lorry park in Hastings.

    Perhaps you can tell me?
    Because the vindictive EU will insist on customs controls even though they know full well that we're British so there's no need.
    I suggest you look at a map.
    I think the transport links from Hastings are poor, and would need improvement to disperse the permanent Operation Stack.
    This is extraordinary.

    I've lived in Dover for most of my life, it is the busiest passenger port in Europe, Operation Stack cripples the town. Hastings is at least 1 1/2 hours from Dover along coastal roads, it has zero impact on Dover, I've now been told by headbanging Remainers that it will be a lorry park and subject to customs control.

    Please continue with your errant nonsense, it proves how weak your arguments are.
    So sadly Hastings misses out on that opportunity too.

    That Brexit dividend really is a mirage for the poor people of Hastings isn't it?
    This is getting ridiculous, what on earth is Hastings missing out?

    Are you finally realising why Leave won? All I read from you is confirmation bias that is miles from reality.
    Irony doesn’t come across well in print, does it!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 8,584
    RoyalBlue said:

    Somewhat encouraging that the Chinese voted for sanctions on North Korea and then engaged in direct talks with them - surprisingly, China is the most constructive and balanced major power in foreign affairs these days, and I don't say that with any illusions about their political virtue.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/05/un-north-korea-sanctions-nikki-haley

    Apparently the Tories thought closely about taxing gains on house sales, and might do so again:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/05/tax-wealth-or-lose-election-will-tanner-theresa-may-aide-warns-tories

    - that would certainly appeal to some on the centre-left, including me, though how many votes it would swing I'm less sure.

    Most constructive and balanced major power in world affairs? How can you possibly reconcile that with them propping up the most heinous regime in the world today, as well as their unilateral territory grabs in the South China Sea?
    The field isn’t great!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 9,587
    edited August 6
    The early favourite never gets it. Expect Rudd to fall at the first hurdle....

    And I dispute Ruth is very popular with Con members across the country. From what I've seen a lot of shire pensioners were as upset with her over the WFA debacle as they were Mother Theresa...

    I suspect James Forsyth and the rest of the boys in the bubble will have another shock when they see how little weight Davidson's endorsements have with Con members in England...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 37,194
    Mr. Gin, doesn't Davidson have May's ear, though? That could influence the timing of any election to be helpful for Davidson's preferred candidate.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 12,861

    ydoethur said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Doethur, to [roughly] quote Grey Fox, you're saying she's neither alive nor dead, a shadow trapped in a world of lights?

    A very poetic way of putting it, Mr Dancer!

    Electing Theresa May to replace Cameron took three weeks or so. The idea that the country will be paralysed for months is nonsense, even if you add a week to consult the members.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)_leadership_election,_2016

    So ballots can be printed, posted, filled in and returned all in a week? I admire your optimism. In 2005, which is the real parallel, it took two months from Howard's resignation, and that ignores the fact it had been running unofficially for five months already.
    Printing and posting ballot papers in a day for delivery the next day is feasible. How long does it take members to put a cross on a piece of paper?

    Time could also be saved by having members' ballot papers printed at the start and trusting members not to vote for those already eliminated. Time could also be saved by reducing the gaps between MPs' voting rounds.

    It is time for Conservative leadership elections to feel the white heat of the technological revolution. The days when ballot papers were hand rolled on maidens' thighs are behind us.

    Because some members live 3,500 miles away, and the snail mail takes a couple of weeks in each direction. ;) Also, members will be on holiday at this time of year and will be pissed off if they're denied a vote.

    That said, I'm all in favour of electronic options, Labour managed to do it with over a million affiliates last year.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 37,194
    Mr. Sandpit, electronic voting is the work of Satan.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 9,587
    edited August 6

    Mr. Gin, doesn't Davidson have May's ear, though? That could influence the timing of any election to be helpful for Davidson's preferred candidate.

    Whenever they do it they've still got to get that candidate past the Con membership though.

    I mean, don't get wrong RD's preferred candidate might become leader but the idea that Davidson is so widely popular with Con members that she'll virtually anoint the winner is ridiculous...

    If she was that popular the majority of Con members would've listened to her in the referendum debates... And voted REMAIN... ;)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 7,225
    I have no idea why we're offering money in order to continue trading arrangements which hugely favour the EU. Ridiculous.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 15,881
    I am really not sure why Amber Rudd is looking so popular. As someone very interested in politics she has made almost no impact on me at all. What has she actually done? I do accept she interviews better than May but so does my daughter's cat.

    I can't help feeling that she is another fairly blank canvas on which people can paint their hopes and dreams without having to worry too much about reality. A bit like Theresa all over again. This is the sane candidate because, unlike the others, she is not obviously insane. It may be true but the evidence, like the last time, is modest one way or the other.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 676

    On topic. She won't hold her own seat IMO

    I don't think that a problem. If she loses her seat then the party is in opposition anyway. If she wins comfortably in her seat then she probably has a majority.

    She is a far better option than DD or JRM.
    better for whom ?
    Everyone who's not a socially conservative buffoon.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 8,584
    GIN1138 said:

    Mr. Gin, doesn't Davidson have May's ear, though? That could influence the timing of any election to be helpful for Davidson's preferred candidate.

    Whenever they do it they've still got to get that candidate past the Con membership though.

    I mean, don't get wrong RD's preferred candidate might become leader but the idea that Davidson is so widely popular with Con members that she'll virtually anoint the winner is ridiculous...

    If she was that popular the majority of Con members would've listened to her in the referendum debates... And voted REMAIN... ;)
    RD is a Scot. Therefore she starts behind square one in some quarters.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 705

    I have no idea why we're offering money in order to continue trading arrangements which hugely favour the EU. Ridiculous.

    So either you are missing something or we have a spectacularly badly chosen negotiating team.

  • AllanAllan Posts: 144
    ydoethur said:

    Anyway, I have to go and perform on a mighty three manual organ this morning. I've got a piece that needs an 8 foot horn for my climax and I need a couple of dry runs to get it right.
    Have a good morning.

    Wow. Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor was always my favourite ending to a service.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 7,225


    I have no idea why we're offering money in order to continue trading arrangements which hugely favour the EU. Ridiculous.

    So either you are missing something or we have a spectacularly badly chosen negotiating team.

    It's the latter, clearly.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 15,881
    Allan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Anyway, I have to go and perform on a mighty three manual organ this morning. I've got a piece that needs an 8 foot horn for my climax and I need a couple of dry runs to get it right.
    Have a good morning.

    Wow. Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor was always my favourite ending to a service.
    I always found it very uplifting. But maybe that was because it was the end of the service.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 12,861

    Mr. Sandpit, electronic voting is the work of Satan.

    Electronic voting in public elections is indeed the work of Satan.

    Threads on US elections on tech forums are hillarious, with all the techies arguing for paper and pencil voting rather than easily hackable and outdated voting machines of various types.

    An internal election for a party leader is doable though, when there aren't the same privacy, confidentiality and traceability concerns.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 8,164
    GIN1138 said:

    The early favourite never gets it. Expect Rudd to fall at the first hurdle....

    And I dispute Ruth is very popular with Con members across the country. From what I've seen a lot of shire pensioners were as upset with her over the WFA debacle as they were Mother Theresa...

    I suspect James Forsyth and the rest of the boys in the bubble will have another shock when they see how little weight Davidson's endorsements have with Con members in England...

    The WFA debacle cost the Conservatives a majority.

    May and Davidson really fcked up that one.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 12,861
    DavidL said:

    I am really not sure why Amber Rudd is looking so popular. As someone very interested in politics she has made almost no impact on me at all. What has she actually done? I do accept she interviews better than May but so does my daughter's cat.

    I can't help feeling that she is another fairly blank canvas on which people can paint their hopes and dreams without having to worry too much about reality. A bit like Theresa all over again. This is the sane candidate because, unlike the others, she is not obviously insane. It may be true but the evidence, like the last time, is modest one way or the other.

    Indeed. IMHO May's safe for a couple of years, it will be too divisive and disruptive to have a contest while the Brexit negotiations are ongoing, and an annointment won't work unless the whole Parliamentary party can get behind a single candidate à la Howard in 2003.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 8,164


    I have no idea why we're offering money in order to continue trading arrangements which hugely favour the EU. Ridiculous.

    So either you are missing something or we have a spectacularly badly chosen negotiating team.

    British negotiators wanting to make unnecessary concessions has been the standard line for the last twenty years.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 6,492
    DavidL said:

    I am really not sure why Amber Rudd is looking so popular. As someone very interested in politics she has made almost no impact on me at all. What has she actually done? I do accept she interviews better than May but so does my daughter's cat.

    I can't help feeling that she is another fairly blank canvas on which people can paint their hopes and dreams without having to worry too much about reality. A bit like Theresa all over again. This is the sane candidate because, unlike the others, she is not obviously insane. It may be true but the evidence, like the last time, is modest one way or the other.

    Rudd does human in interviews, so to that extent she is more like Cameron (or Corbyn!) than May, though you are probably right about the blank canvas (not that that is necessarily a disadvantage when seeking votes). The danger for Rudd is the Home Office's line on encryption risks making her look a fool. Law and order sets up a nice opposition with DD's liberalism but there is a thin line between that and the Australian PM appearing to doubt mathematics.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 8,164
    Envy of the world:

    'A damning report into an ambulance trust has revealed a culture of bullying and harassment with concerns over "toxic" atmospheres, sexual grooming and a fear of speaking out.

    When bullying claims at South East Coast Ambulance Service (Secamb) emerged in February the trust commissioned an independent review.

    About half the workforce surveyed experienced bullying in the past year. '

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40825748
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 6,492
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    I am really not sure why Amber Rudd is looking so popular. As someone very interested in politics she has made almost no impact on me at all. What has she actually done? I do accept she interviews better than May but so does my daughter's cat.

    I can't help feeling that she is another fairly blank canvas on which people can paint their hopes and dreams without having to worry too much about reality. A bit like Theresa all over again. This is the sane candidate because, unlike the others, she is not obviously insane. It may be true but the evidence, like the last time, is modest one way or the other.

    Indeed. IMHO May's safe for a couple of years, it will be too divisive and disruptive to have a contest while the Brexit negotiations are ongoing, and an annointment won't work unless the whole Parliamentary party can get behind a single candidate à la Howard in 2003.
    We've just had a general election during Brexit negotiations. It is nonsense to say they could not withstand a mere leadership ballot.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 6,492


    I have no idea why we're offering money in order to continue trading arrangements which hugely favour the EU. Ridiculous.

    So either you are missing something or we have a spectacularly badly chosen negotiating team.

    Both could be true.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 15,881
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    I am really not sure why Amber Rudd is looking so popular. As someone very interested in politics she has made almost no impact on me at all. What has she actually done? I do accept she interviews better than May but so does my daughter's cat.

    I can't help feeling that she is another fairly blank canvas on which people can paint their hopes and dreams without having to worry too much about reality. A bit like Theresa all over again. This is the sane candidate because, unlike the others, she is not obviously insane. It may be true but the evidence, like the last time, is modest one way or the other.

    Indeed. IMHO May's safe for a couple of years, it will be too divisive and disruptive to have a contest while the Brexit negotiations are ongoing, and an annointment won't work unless the whole Parliamentary party can get behind a single candidate à la Howard in 2003.
    I agree. I think May should have gone immediately after the election but it is too late now. Any changes will now be post Brexit by which time whether someone was a remainer or a leaver really won't matter that much.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 17,511

    Somewhat encouraging that the Chinese voted for sanctions on North Korea and then engaged in direct talks with them - surprisingly, China is the most constructive and balanced major power in foreign affairs these days, and I don't say that with any illusions about their political virtue.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/05/un-north-korea-sanctions-nikki-haley

    Apparently the Tories thought closely about taxing gains on house sales, and might do so again:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/05/tax-wealth-or-lose-election-will-tanner-theresa-may-aide-warns-tories

    - that would certainly appeal to some on the centre-left, including me, though how many votes it would swing I'm less sure.

    I think it would swing lots of votes.

    But, not in favour of the Conservatives.
  • MetatronMetatron Posts: 67
    Like others I am mystified by the idea Tories of repeating the same mistake with Amber Rudd as they did with Theresa May.To the lay person she has no real CV either as a govt minister or prior to politics and is not that good a performer in debate or interview.
    She comes from a wealthy privileged background and got divorced with children at home which party members might requires more charisma than she has to cover that.
    Also she was a minister for climate change/energy and can see that putting off both climate sceptics and others who can see Hinkley Point is a going to be a disaster policy that leads huge hikes in energy bills.
    Note Therese Mays cutbacks at the Home Office have now made her vulnerable.She was unable in the election to exploit politically the terrorists attacks against even Corbyn because of her cutbacks in police etc .Note whenever energy prices began to rise any Tory who has worked in the energy dept will lack credibility in talking about getting energy prices down
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 8,164
    Sean_F said:

    Somewhat encouraging that the Chinese voted for sanctions on North Korea and then engaged in direct talks with them - surprisingly, China is the most constructive and balanced major power in foreign affairs these days, and I don't say that with any illusions about their political virtue.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/05/un-north-korea-sanctions-nikki-haley

    Apparently the Tories thought closely about taxing gains on house sales, and might do so again:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/05/tax-wealth-or-lose-election-will-tanner-theresa-may-aide-warns-tories

    - that would certainly appeal to some on the centre-left, including me, though how many votes it would swing I'm less sure.

    I think it would swing lots of votes.

    But, not in favour of the Conservatives.
    Too high a proportion of Britain's wealth is locked up in property.

    As that doesn't create wealth it has to be borrowed to fund consumption.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,083
    Morning all :)

    Moving away from the detritus of the Conservative Party leadership election which has effectively started now and will run until 2019 (Lord help us !!).

    "How Do You solve a problem like North Korea ?" continues to run and run. Superficial unity at the UN bought after some tough talking between the US and China I suspect but what now ?

    Beijing is clearly hoping the temperature can be lowered and life can get back to what passes for normal. It's unclear to me how much "influence" Beijing really has - possibly little with Kim himself but a lot with some of his more senior advisers and generals.

    Clearly, a pro-Beijing regime in Pyongyang stepping away from Juche to a more "sensible" ideological basis would be the ideal outcome and if all that takes is a few bullets in the right places, most of the world would consider that a price worth paying.

    That doesn't seem likely at present and the risk the next escalation will be one too many is a large one (I'm reminded of what happened 103 years ago this weekend (roughly) after one crisis or provocation too many).

    I don't think the West has developed any coherent method of dealing with dictators beyond hoping they will be overthrown from within (though that happens less frequently now it seems). The choices are intervention or containment but both carry huge risks and to be honest not too many rewards. The problem comes when the dictator stops terrorising his own people and starts threatening everyone else.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 30,811
    DavidL said:

    Any changes will now be post Brexit

    Brexit will not be over in the next 10 years
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 16,655
    RoyalBlue said:

    Somewhat encouraging that the Chinese voted for sanctions on North Korea and then engaged in direct talks with them - surprisingly, China is the most constructive and balanced major power in foreign affairs these days, and I don't say that with any illusions about their political virtue.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/05/un-north-korea-sanctions-nikki-haley

    Apparently the Tories thought closely about taxing gains on house sales, and might do so again:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/05/tax-wealth-or-lose-election-will-tanner-theresa-may-aide-warns-tories

    - that would certainly appeal to some on the centre-left, including me, though how many votes it would swing I'm less sure.

    Most constructive and balanced major power in world affairs? How can you possibly reconcile that with them propping up the most heinous regime in the world today, as well as their unilateral territory grabs in the South China Sea?
    I think he does good business with the Chinese, teaching them about democracy and civic values or something...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 16,655
    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Sandpit, electronic voting is the work of Satan.

    Electronic voting in public elections is indeed the work of Satan.

    Threads on US elections on tech forums are hillarious, with all the techies arguing for paper and pencil voting rather than easily hackable and outdated voting machines of various types.

    An internal election for a party leader is doable though, when there aren't the same privacy, confidentiality and traceability concerns.
    Some of Malloch Brown's recent comments have been interesting
This discussion has been closed.