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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Latest Brexit trackers from ORB find declining approval of the

SystemSystem Posts: 3,967
edited August 7 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Latest Brexit trackers from ORB find declining approval of the way TMay’s government is handling Brexit

The numbers are broadly in line with what other pollsters have been finding. Last week YouGov found 55% saying they thought the process was going badly with 25% saying well.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 3,048
    Suspect public opinion on how it is going is just reflecting what the media are saying.... Not sure it matters until there is a deal/no deal and then people can judge for themselves based on the impact to their own lives.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 1,333
    rkrkrk said:

    Suspect public opinion on how it is going is just reflecting what the media are saying.... Not sure it matters until there is a deal/no deal and then people can judge for themselves based on the impact to their own lives.

    Also on what the Government is saying - or more exactly the various members are saying. There is no consistent narrative from the Government ranks.

    Add to that the reports that are coming from the EU side about how Mrs May and her team of buffoons are conducting themselves, there is enough evidence available for the public to make up their own minds.

    And the Conservatives are stuck with this for the next four and a half years - unless they cut and run again.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 22,106
    The final graph doesn't match the headline.
  • RightChuckRightChuck Posts: 85
    rkrkrk said:

    Suspect public opinion on how it is going is just reflecting what the media are saying.... Not sure it matters until there is a deal/no deal and then people can judge for themselves based on the impact to their own lives.

    Exactly. But for hard core remainers every little twist and turn of the polls, every tittle, every tattle, is reason for hope. False hope, I think, but the situation will be (slightly) clearer when the UK government publishes its postion papers towards the end of summer. Perhaps.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 15,478

    The final graph doesn't match the headline.

    Yes it's a confusing colour code but I think you're right. 65% percent think we will have more control over immigration. That's a lot of people who stand to be disappointed.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 39,546
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Not much to be excited about in the graphs. They're mostly as you were.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 2,329
    rkrkrk said:

    Suspect public opinion on how it is going is just reflecting what the media are saying.... Not sure it matters until there is a deal/no deal and then people can judge for themselves based on the impact to their own lives.

    I would be substantially less than shocked if the negotiators weren't at all sure how it was going. Public Opinion will surely be the arbiter of that on both sides and, as you say, that's a way off yet.
  • AllanAllan Posts: 262
    Tim Montgomerie ن ✔ @montie
    Is there a name for continually thinking the European project, and its gradual erosion of nation state democracies, will turn out ok?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    The final graph doesn't match the headline.

    Indeed. Immigration actually needs to be higher in certain spheres for the right sort of skills that the country needs.

    Control is not the same as reduce.

    I want control but I do not necessarily want reduction.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 2,329
    Allan said:

    Tim Montgomerie ن ✔ @montie
    Is there a name for continually thinking the European project, and its gradual erosion of nation state democracies, will turn out ok?

    stupidity
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Allan said:

    Tim Montgomerie ن ✔ @montie
    Is there a name for continually thinking the European project, and its gradual erosion of nation state democracies, will turn out ok?

    Quisling
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 2,329
    GeoffM said:

    The final graph doesn't match the headline.

    Indeed. Immigration actually needs to be higher in certain spheres for the right sort of skills that the country needs.

    Control is not the same as reduce.

    I want control but I do not necessarily want reduction.
    I find it difficult to believe that any sensible person would find much to argue with in that position.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 15,478

    GeoffM said:

    The final graph doesn't match the headline.

    Indeed. Immigration actually needs to be higher in certain spheres for the right sort of skills that the country needs.

    Control is not the same as reduce.

    I want control but I do not necessarily want reduction.
    I find it difficult to believe that any sensible person would find much to argue with in that position.
    It's a moveable principle since almost all Brexiteers want to keep the CTA and have uncontrolled migration between the UK and Ireland.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,564
    FPT;

    Pong said:

    Pong said:

    It's exactly what they did.

    Personally I support either a graduate tax, or backdating tuition fees.

    We're all in this together, remember?

    We effectively have a graduate tax. What are you complaining about?
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/nov/25/osborne-student-loan-tuition-fees-university-higher-education-autumn-statement

    Tory theft.

    £3k on average, £6k for the median Plan2 earner.
    A tax increase on the higher-paid, just the kind of thing you advocate.
    One plus point that comes out of it is the tories won't be able to credibly object to Chancellor McDonnell imposing retrospective taxation.

    They shot themselves in the foot there, imo.
  • felixfelix Posts: 6,903

    The final graph doesn't match the headline.

    Hmmmmm - I wonder how much the wish was father to the mistake!
  • felixfelix Posts: 6,903
    Pong said:

    FPT;

    Pong said:

    Pong said:

    It's exactly what they did.

    Personally I support either a graduate tax, or backdating tuition fees.

    We're all in this together, remember?

    We effectively have a graduate tax. What are you complaining about?
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/nov/25/osborne-student-loan-tuition-fees-university-higher-education-autumn-statement

    Tory theft.

    £3k on average, £6k for the median Plan2 earner.
    A tax increase on the higher-paid, just the kind of thing you advocate.
    One plus point that comes out of it is the tories won't be able to credibly object to Chancellor McDonnell imposing retrospective taxation.

    They shot themselves in the foot there, imo.
    Yup - the middle classes who voted Labour will pay dearly when they find out just how much extra tax McDonnell will need from them to pay for his Venesocialism.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 16,972
    Pong said:

    One plus point that comes out of it is the tories won't be able to credibly object to Chancellor McDonnell imposing retrospective taxation.

    They shot themselves in the foot there, imo.

    Indeed they did, but not half as much as you and others who actually vote for Corbyn. It will be a very painful learning curve for you.
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 212
    felix said:

    Pong said:

    FPT;

    Pong said:

    Pong said:

    It's exactly what they did.

    Personally I support either a graduate tax, or backdating tuition fees.

    We're all in this together, remember?

    We effectively have a graduate tax. What are you complaining about?
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/nov/25/osborne-student-loan-tuition-fees-university-higher-education-autumn-statement

    Tory theft.

    £3k on average, £6k for the median Plan2 earner.
    A tax increase on the higher-paid, just the kind of thing you advocate.
    One plus point that comes out of it is the tories won't be able to credibly object to Chancellor McDonnell imposing retrospective taxation.

    They shot themselves in the foot there, imo.
    Yup - the middle classes who voted Labour will pay dearly when they find out just how much extra tax McDonnell will need from them to pay for his Venesocialism.
    Exactly - the only goal now must be to keep the stupid communists out of power long enough for the turkeys to realise that Christmas dinner won't be as good for them as they think it will...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,364

    But if that line doesn't hold, then the only way the hard Brexiteers can keep the dream alive is to concede to a customs border in the Irish sea. This is the remorseless logic that risks leaving the DUP completely isolated.

    As Osborne says, the Irish have the upper hand and this is something not many on the UK side have woken up to.

    I don't think he's quite right on that - if our EU friends agree to what we are asking for, i.e. a comprehensive free trade agreement, the Irish border issue becomes hugely simpler. It's the EU, not the UK, which wants to impose tariffs and border checks. The logic of the EU27's position on Ireland is exactly the kind of deal we want.
    The EU wants a comprehensive FTA with the UK.

    The biggest issues are (1) the dispute resolution mechanism, (2) regulatory equivalence in services. Neither of these impact the border in Ireland.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,364
    rkrkrk said:

    George Osborne on the state of negotiations. He's spot on.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-in-brexit-talks-it-turns-out-money-is-the-easy-bit-a3605601.html

    Leo Varadkar is a new kind of Taoiseach — not just because he’s a gay child of an Indian immigrant. He’s worked out that Ireland holds the upper hand in negotiations with Britain because, without Irish consent, the other 26 EU nations won’t sign off that “sufficient progress” has been made in the negotiations. Mr Varadkar said the options for solving the border issue were clear: either Britain stays in the EU customs union, or forms a new customs union with the EU, or in effect rejoins the European Free Trade Association. The Cabinet is split on all these, with hard Brexiteers ruling out all of them.

    This points to the larger row now coming. Once the rest of the EU does judge that we’ve made “sufficient progress” on the initial issues, it expects us to present our ideal plan for our long-term relationship with the EU. It is this moment that Whitehall now fears. For there is no agreement at all, in a divided Cabinet or hung Parliament, on that future status. When Europe turns to Brexit Britain this autumn and says “tell us what you want”, our reply will be “we don’t know”. It turns out that handing over the money is going to be easy part.

    The Irish border issue is really tricky.
    Perhaps in the end we will just have a hard border between ROI and Northern Ireland and look for ways to mitigate the economic and political impact.
    I think this issue is hugely overdone, so long as we're relaxed about the continuation of the CTA. Switzerland, for example, is not a member of the EEA and doesn't have a "hard" border with the EU.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 9,576
    blueblue said:

    felix said:

    Pong said:

    FPT;

    Pong said:

    Pong said:

    It's exactly what they did.

    Personally I support either a graduate tax, or backdating tuition fees.

    We're all in this together, remember?

    We effectively have a graduate tax. What are you complaining about?
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/nov/25/osborne-student-loan-tuition-fees-university-higher-education-autumn-statement

    Tory theft.

    £3k on average, £6k for the median Plan2 earner.
    A tax increase on the higher-paid, just the kind of thing you advocate.
    One plus point that comes out of it is the tories won't be able to credibly object to Chancellor McDonnell imposing retrospective taxation.

    They shot themselves in the foot there, imo.
    Yup - the middle classes who voted Labour will pay dearly when they find out just how much extra tax McDonnell will need from them to pay for his Venesocialism.
    Exactly - the only goal now must be to keep the stupid communists out of power long enough for the turkeys to realise that Christmas dinner won't be as good for them as they think it will...
    I hear the sound of straws being clutched!
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,176
    CORRECTION. I misread the third chart.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 39,546
    edited August 7
    Ah, I knew I forgot something. These graphs just reminded me: I'm going to have a look and see whether there's a significant overlap between engine supplier and retirement rates in F1 this year (Honda obviously only supply one team, but the reliability appears much improved since the recent update).

    Edited extra bit: hmm, surprisingly less overlap than I thought there might be, actually.

    Got some early bets in mind for Spa, but the markets won't awaken for another fortnight, alas.
  • JSpringJSpring Posts: 28
    edited August 7


    I hear the sound of straws being clutched!

    During the Blair/Brown era and prior to it, opinion polling consistently showed that a substantial proportion of the population was willing to pay extra taxes for better public services. Polling on this matter has dried up in recent times, but given that nearly 13 million people voted for a Corbyn-led Labour Party a few weeks ago, I doubt it's much different now.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 39,546
    Mr. Spring, but is that other people paying for services the respondent uses? Or the respondent paying for services other people use, or a mishmash?

    I can see the very wealthy (contribution versus dedication, for those who remember the New Testament from school) being content to part with a sliver of their enormo-wealth, but those on low/middling incomes are perhaps less likely to approve of their own taxes increasing.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 4,996
    I will be very surprised if we end up with a third cross-over on the top graph.

    The second graph may change dramatically if the PM changes.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 2,360
    Can Eire get its goods to market in the EU without going through the UK ?
  • hamiltonacehamiltonace Posts: 249
    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    George Osborne on the state of negotiations. He's spot on.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-in-brexit-talks-it-turns-out-money-is-the-easy-bit-a3605601.html

    Leo Varadkar is a new kind of Taoiseach — not just because he’s a gay child of an Indian immigrant. He’s worked out that Ireland holds the upper hand in negotiations with Britain because, without Irish consent, the other 26 EU nations won’t sign off that “sufficient progress” has been made in the negotiations. Mr Varadkar said the options for solving the border issue were clear: either Britain stays in the EU customs union, or forms a new customs union with the EU, or in effect rejoins the European Free Trade Association. The Cabinet is split on all these, with hard Brexiteers ruling out all of them.

    This points to the larger row now coming. Once the rest of the EU does judge that we’ve made “sufficient progress” on the initial issues, it expects us to present our ideal plan for our long-term relationship with the EU. It is this moment that Whitehall now fears. For there is no agreement at all, in a divided Cabinet or hung Parliament, on that future status. When Europe turns to Brexit Britain this autumn and says “tell us what you want”, our reply will be “we don’t know”. It turns out that handing over the money is going to be easy part.

    The Irish border issue is really tricky.
    Perhaps in the end we will just have a hard border between ROI and Northern Ireland and look for ways to mitigate the economic and political impact.
    I think this issue is hugely overdone, so long as we're relaxed about the continuation of the CTA. Switzerland, for example, is not a member of the EEA and doesn't have a "hard" border with the EU.

    Switzerland may not have a hard border with EC but it is a pain to ship to them. It costs £70 to send a pallet to South France and £120 to Switzerland due to border and customs. I cannot get a next day box to Switzerland for less than £120 or so and they still get held up every couple of months. Today Fedex asked for more description of 3,000 Galipots. These are small plastic pots worth 2p each.

    One of my customers sits on Ni/ Eire border. His thought is to have 2 warehouses one on each side of border and say the goods are made where it is better to say they are made. Sounds as good a solution as I have heard so far but is this really the way to run an economy?














  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 3,962
    JSpring said:


    I hear the sound of straws being clutched!

    During the Blair/Brown era and prior to it, opinion polling consistently showed that a substantial proportion of the population was willing to pay extra taxes for better public services. Polling on this matter has dried up in recent times, but given that nearly 13 million people voted for a Corbyn-led Labour Party a few weeks ago, I doubt it's much different now.
    I would imagine that most people are easily capable of the cognitive dissonance needed to agree to that general proposition while opposing any and every specific instance of it. Post dementia tax, I am not sure I even have to exercise my imagination on the point.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 3,708
    Yorkcity said:

    Can Eire get its goods to market in the EU without going through the UK ?

    Yes. It may need to develop Cork & Cobh a bit more but it could do so. Both "face" northwestern France / Brittany
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 17,997
    Oh, ffs. What a sick, handkerchief-waving piece of dross that is. The causes of the problems in Venezuela are clear, and the best Corbyn can do is utter meaningless platitudes.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,364
    Yorkcity said:

    Can Eire get its goods to market in the EU without going through the UK ?

    It depends on what they are. Ireland's biggest export is pharmaceuticals, where the value-to-weight ratio is extremely high. That would be largely unaffected.

    The Port of Cork is also a pretty efficient container port.

    There are also established rules for transhipment of sealed containers, that mean that lorries from Ireland could cross the UK seamlessly.

    Still, there would clearly be time and cost issues.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 15,478

    Oh, ffs. What a sick, handkerchief-waving piece of dross that is. The causes of the problems in Venezuela are clear, and the best Corbyn can do is utter meaningless platitudes.
    I take it you don't agree that the "effective and serious attempts at reducing poverty in Venezuela" should be recognised?
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 2,360

    Yorkcity said:

    Can Eire get its goods to market in the EU without going through the UK ?

    Yes. It may need to develop Cork & Cobh a bit more but it could do so. Both "face" northwestern France / Brittany
    Thanks Beverly C would the costs be prohibitive using these routes to the EU ?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,176

    Yorkcity said:

    Can Eire get its goods to market in the EU without going through the UK ?

    Yes. It may need to develop Cork & Cobh a bit more but it could do so. Both "face" northwestern France / Brittany
    There's a direct Cork to Roscoff ferry service by Brittany Ferries.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Oh, ffs. What a sick, handkerchief-waving piece of dross that is. The causes of the problems in Venezuela are clear, and the best Corbyn can do is utter meaningless platitudes.
    The only way he can ever condemn his side is to wrap it up in false equivalence. It's the Troubles all over again.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 9,576
    In cricket news Essex have just comprehensively defeated Yorkshire.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 17,997

    Oh, ffs. What a sick, handkerchief-waving piece of dross that is. The causes of the problems in Venezuela are clear, and the best Corbyn can do is utter meaningless platitudes.
    I take it you don't agree that the "effective and serious attempts at reducing poverty in Venezuela" should be recognised?
    Venezuela, unlike the UK, is a country with widespread, real poverty. We'd all like a Bill and Ted's world where we're all 'excellent to one another'. But the question is how we get there, and I'd be good if Corbyn were to answer how Chavez and Maduro's squandering of oil money has helped the population.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 17,997

    In cricket news Essex have just comprehensively defeated Yorkshire.

    Can cricket have 'news'? Surely by the time a game finishes a new Ice Age has begun, the Apes have risen, and the result belongs firmly in the 'history' section ? ')
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 16,972

    Oh, ffs. What a sick, handkerchief-waving piece of dross that is. The causes of the problems in Venezuela are clear, and the best Corbyn can do is utter meaningless platitudes.
    I take it you don't agree that the "effective and serious attempts at reducing poverty in Venezuela" should be recognised?
    This is what "effective and serious attempts at reducing poverty" mean in practice, as reported by an extreme right-wing tabloid:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/24/venezuela-crisis-basic-food-shortages
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 39,546
    Mr. Glenn, hasn't the poverty rate increased massively, hence so many people starving to death?

    The murder rate has also hugely increased. And employment has declined. And the government is on an express train to dictatorship.

    But Corbyn can't even bring himself to condemn a regime that locks up opposition leaders and rigs votes to give itself more power. Because it's socialist.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 3,587

    Oh, ffs. What a sick, handkerchief-waving piece of dross that is. The causes of the problems in Venezuela are clear, and the best Corbyn can do is utter meaningless platitudes.
    I take it you don't agree that the "effective and serious attempts at reducing poverty in Venezuela" should be recognised?
    Venezuela, unlike the UK, is a country with widespread, real poverty. We'd all like a Bill and Ted's world where we're all 'excellent to one another'. But the question is how we get there, and I'd be good if Corbyn were to answer how Chavez and Maduro's squandering of oil money has helped the population.
    Not just a handwaving piece of dross, but seriously dishonest, too.
    "effective and serious attempts at reducing poverty in Venezuela"....

    https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/venezuela-unprecedented-economic-collapse-by-ricardo-hausmann-2017-07?referrer=/nvBcqfkklA
    ...Income poverty increased from 48% in 2014 to 82% in 2016, according to a survey conducted by Venezuela’s three most prestigious universities. The same study found that 74% of Venezuelans involuntarily lost an average of 8.6 kilos (19 pounds) in weight. The Venezuelan Health Observatory reports a ten-fold increase in in-patient mortality and a 100-fold increase in the death of newborns in hospitals in 2016. And yet President Nicolás Maduro’s government has repeatedly turned down offers of humanitarian assistance….
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Ali has a Michelle, got to be in with a shout for Man of the Series.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 3,587
    edited August 7

    In cricket news Essex have just comprehensively defeated Yorkshire.

    Can cricket have 'news'? Surely by the time a game finishes a new Ice Age has begun, the Apes have risen, and the result belongs firmly in the 'history' section ? ')
    There is no poetry in your soul.
    :smile:

    (Though, admittedly, cricket is perhaps more Homer's Odyssey rather than your Japanese Haiku...)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 15,478
    FPT
    rcs1000 said:

    The EU wants a comprehensive FTA with the UK.

    That would be some way down their list of preferred outcomes. Why would the EU want to shrink the single market?
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Ali has a Michelle, got to be in with a shout for Man of the Series.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 7,736

    Ali has a Michelle, got to be in with a shout for Man of the Series.

    Just imagine how good our first choice spinner and those batsmen who are so much better than him that they are keeping him out of the No. 5 slot must be...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 9,576

    In cricket news Essex have just comprehensively defeated Yorkshire.

    Can cricket have 'news'? Surely by the time a game finishes a new Ice Age has begun, the Apes have risen, and the result belongs firmly in the 'history' section ? ')
    Blasphemy! And from someone named Jessop!!!!!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 7,736

    In cricket news Essex have just comprehensively defeated Yorkshire.

    Can cricket have 'news'? Surely by the time a game finishes a new Ice Age has begun, the Apes have risen, and the result belongs firmly in the 'history' section ? ')
    Blasphemy! And from someone named Jessop!!!!!
    Well, Gilbert Jessop was certainly not one to wait for the new Ice Age.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    ydoethur said:

    Ali has a Michelle, got to be in with a shout for Man of the Series.

    Just imagine how good our first choice spinner and those batsmen who are so much better than him that they are keeping him out of the No. 5 slot must be...
    Well, he's doing pretty well where he is; if it ain't broke...
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 4,201

    In cricket news Essex have just comprehensively defeated Yorkshire.

    You have to wonder what sort of a wicket they were playing on though. The game barely lasted a day and a half. Essex have a pretty lively attack but it ain't that good. Yorkshire's bowlers may be a bit less sharp, but a very strong Essex batting side could only manage 231 against them.

    Do they play on corrugated iron at Scarborough these days?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 4,201

    Yorkcity said:

    Can Eire get its goods to market in the EU without going through the UK ?

    Yes. It may need to develop Cork & Cobh a bit more but it could do so. Both "face" northwestern France / Brittany
    There's a direct Cork to Roscoff ferry service by Brittany Ferries.
    And of course those Cork boats never sink.

    OK, I have my coat.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 7,736

    ydoethur said:

    Ali has a Michelle, got to be in with a shout for Man of the Series.

    Just imagine how good our first choice spinner and those batsmen who are so much better than him that they are keeping him out of the No. 5 slot must be...
    Well, he's doing pretty well where he is; if it ain't broke...
    Yes, he's doing well.

    However, shall we say politely that our number five is about as much use as a Conservative election pledge? I don't think the current team is 'working.'

    Here's a controversial suggestion - Adil Rashid would score more runs than Dawid Malan. Discuss.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 3,587

    In cricket news Essex have just comprehensively defeated Yorkshire.

    You have to wonder what sort of a wicket they were playing on though. The game barely lasted a day and a half. Essex have a pretty lively attack but it ain't that good...
    Amir took 10 wickets in the match. I hear that he's a bit useful....

    Agreed that the pitch must have been quite bowler friendly, though - and coming straight out of the one day tournament, batsmen' minds might not have been in the right place.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 7,736
    edited August 7

    In cricket news Essex have just comprehensively defeated Yorkshire.

    You have to wonder what sort of a wicket they were playing on though. The game barely lasted a day and a half. Essex have a pretty lively attack but it ain't that good. Yorkshire's bowlers may be a bit less sharp, but a very strong Essex batting side could only manage 231 against them.

    Do they play on corrugated iron at Scarborough these days?
    If anyone wants to see another embarrassing collapse, Northants are currently 19 for 5.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Ali's series was better than Botham's Ashes!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 3,587
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ali has a Michelle, got to be in with a shout for Man of the Series.

    Just imagine how good our first choice spinner and those batsmen who are so much better than him that they are keeping him out of the No. 5 slot must be...
    Well, he's doing pretty well where he is; if it ain't broke...
    Yes, he's doing well.

    However, shall we say politely that our number five is about as much use as a Conservative election pledge? I don't think the current team is 'working.'

    Here's a controversial suggestion - Adil Rashid would score more runs than Dawid Malan. Discuss.
    Their respective test averages, though the product of a limited data set, tend to bear that out.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    ydoethur said:

    I don't think the current team is 'working.'

    Seems harsh.

  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 2,360

    In cricket news Essex have just comprehensively defeated Yorkshire.

    You have to wonder what sort of a wicket they were playing on though. The game barely lasted a day and a half. Essex have a pretty lively attack but it ain't that good. Yorkshire's bowlers may be a bit less sharp, but a very strong Essex batting side could only manage 231 against them.

    Do they play on corrugated iron at Scarborough these days?
    It was a bit windy the other day when I walked passed Scarborough cricket ground .I forgot how close it was to the sea, as it was years since I have been.Was on the way to see Madness at the Scarborough Open Theatre.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 7,736

    ydoethur said:

    I don't think the current team is 'working.'

    Seems harsh.

    8 of them are doing quite well. One deserves a bit more time.

    It's two of the other three I'm worried about.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 4,201
    ydoethur said:

    In cricket news Essex have just comprehensively defeated Yorkshire.

    You have to wonder what sort of a wicket they were playing on though. The game barely lasted a day and a half. Essex have a pretty lively attack but it ain't that good. Yorkshire's bowlers may be a bit less sharp, but a very strong Essex batting side could only manage 231 against them.

    Do they play on corrugated iron at Scarborough these days?
    If anyone wants to see another embarrassing collapse, Northants are currently 19 for 5.
    In their defence, they are having to cope with Liam Norwell, the talented Gloucestershire quicky who has somehow managed to evade the attention of the selectors so far.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 17,821
    Things I have found out today: part of the river Walbrook apparently originally sprang from just outside the front door of my block of flats.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 7,736

    ydoethur said:

    In cricket news Essex have just comprehensively defeated Yorkshire.

    You have to wonder what sort of a wicket they were playing on though. The game barely lasted a day and a half. Essex have a pretty lively attack but it ain't that good. Yorkshire's bowlers may be a bit less sharp, but a very strong Essex batting side could only manage 231 against them.

    Do they play on corrugated iron at Scarborough these days?
    If anyone wants to see another embarrassing collapse, Northants are currently 19 for 5.
    In their defence, they are having to cope with Liam Norwell, the talented Gloucestershire quicky who has somehow managed to evade the attention of the selectors so far.
    If the mess the selectors made of Finn is typical, I hope he continues to do so for a while yet.

    Talking of selectors:

    Haseeb Hameed not out 57

    Alex Hales 218 for Notts.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Ali's series was better than Botham's Ashes!

    I know which of them I'd rather go for a beer with though, and who is more likely to step forward for a good cause.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 16,972

    Things I have found out today: part of the river Walbrook apparently originally sprang from just outside the front door of my block of flats.

    You are living over multiple layers of detritus dating back to before the Romans.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 4,201
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I don't think the current team is 'working.'

    Seems harsh.

    8 of them are doing quite well. One deserves a bit more time.

    It's two of the other three I'm worried about.
    Yes, Westley has earned a bit more time, but in a way he demonstrates the laughable incompetence of the selectors because, as an Essex man, I can assure you the County has two other batsmen who deserved to be picked ahead of him - Lawrence and Browne. Now if he's not even in the top two at Essex, wtf is he doing in the England team? (And I'm ignoring Bopara who is also better than Westley and bowls a useful medium pace but has failed too many times in the past to merit another go.)

    And don't get me going on Dawson, please.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 39,546
    Mr. Punter, some samurai used cork armour to enable them to cross rivers.

    And with that, I must be off.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 17,821

    Things I have found out today: part of the river Walbrook apparently originally sprang from just outside the front door of my block of flats.

    You are living over multiple layers of detritus dating back to before the Romans.
    Generally I try not to think too much about what lies beneath. I doubt it would be good for house prices to know.
  • glwglw Posts: 3,872

    Mr. Glenn, hasn't the poverty rate increased massively, hence so many people starving to death?

    The murder rate has also hugely increased. And employment has declined. And the government is on an express train to dictatorship.

    But Corbyn can't even bring himself to condemn a regime that locks up opposition leaders and rigs votes to give itself more power. Because it's socialist.

    Yep, that's about the sum of it. Socialism is killing Venezuela and Corbyn will never willingly condemn it.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 4,201
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    In cricket news Essex have just comprehensively defeated Yorkshire.

    You have to wonder what sort of a wicket they were playing on though. The game barely lasted a day and a half. Essex have a pretty lively attack but it ain't that good. Yorkshire's bowlers may be a bit less sharp, but a very strong Essex batting side could only manage 231 against them.

    Do they play on corrugated iron at Scarborough these days?
    If anyone wants to see another embarrassing collapse, Northants are currently 19 for 5.
    In their defence, they are having to cope with Liam Norwell, the talented Gloucestershire quicky who has somehow managed to evade the attention of the selectors so far.
    If the mess the selectors made of Finn is typical, I hope he continues to do so for a while yet.

    Talking of selectors:

    Haseeb Hameed not out 57

    Alex Hales 218 for Notts.
    Because England have eight fine players, three of whom are genuine all-rounders, picking the other three should be a doddle. And what a pig's ear the selectors have made of it. Malan, Jennings...Dawson, ffs.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 7,736
    GeoffM said:

    Ali's series was better than Botham's Ashes!

    I know which of them I'd rather go for a beer with though, and who is more likely to step forward for a good cause.
    You wouldn't be able to go for a beer with Ali, he's a teetotaller.

    I think it's also rather unfair to suggest he doesn't do charity work as well. He may do it on the quiet but it's not the less effective for that.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 3,708

    Yorkcity said:

    Can Eire get its goods to market in the EU without going through the UK ?

    Yes. It may need to develop Cork & Cobh a bit more but it could do so. Both "face" northwestern France / Brittany
    There's a direct Cork to Roscoff ferry service by Brittany Ferries.
    Indeed there is Mike, but if cargo is going to be diverted from the Port of Dublin then they may need to increase capacity at Cork. Having said that, given some of the roads in that neck of the woods it might be quicker to go from Dublin to France :)
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 4,201

    Things I have found out today: part of the river Walbrook apparently originally sprang from just outside the front door of my block of flats.

    You are living over multiple layers of detritus dating back to before the Romans.
    Generally I try not to think too much about what lies beneath. I doubt it would be good for house prices to know.
    Oh I don't know, Alastair. It's good old Anglo-Saxon shit you are sitting on; none of that European muck.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 7,736
    edited August 7

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I don't think the current team is 'working.'

    Seems harsh.

    8 of them are doing quite well. One deserves a bit more time.

    It's two of the other three I'm worried about.
    Yes, Westley has earned a bit more time, but in a way he demonstrates the laughable incompetence of the selectors because, as an Essex man, I can assure you the County has two other batsmen who deserved to be picked ahead of him - Lawrence and Browne. Now if he's not even in the top two at Essex, wtf is he doing in the England team? (And I'm ignoring Bopara who is also better than Westley and bowls a useful medium pace but has failed too many times in the past to merit another go.)

    And don't get me going on Dawson, please.
    I think it's probably a next cab off the rank job. He's been on their radar for a while, therefore he was the one picked. At least that may give encouragement to the others (bearing in mind Gloucestershire have had one player picked for England in 15 years despite significant one-day success in that time).

    Have to say though I could see a compelling case for trying Hales at three. While his earlier career has resembled Hick's in the wrong way, he has the potential to emulate the Hick who briefly looked the real deal as a Test number three in the mid 90s.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 3,708

    Yorkcity said:

    Can Eire get its goods to market in the EU without going through the UK ?

    Yes. It may need to develop Cork & Cobh a bit more but it could do so. Both "face" northwestern France / Brittany
    There's a direct Cork to Roscoff ferry service by Brittany Ferries.
    And of course those Cork boats never sink.

    OK, I have my coat.
    Bonus Question - which famous historical naval person designed the Port of Dublin's self-dredging design?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 4,201

    Mr. Punter, some samurai used cork armour to enable them to cross rivers.

    And with that, I must be off.

    I suspect a wind-up, but am never sure with you, Morris.

    Cheerio.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 3,708

    Yorkcity said:

    Can Eire get its goods to market in the EU without going through the UK ?

    Yes. It may need to develop Cork & Cobh a bit more but it could do so. Both "face" northwestern France / Brittany
    There's a direct Cork to Roscoff ferry service by Brittany Ferries.
    And of course those Cork boats never sink.

    OK, I have my coat.
    Bonus Question - which famous historical naval person designed Dublin harbour's self-dredging design?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 16,972
    edited August 7

    Things I have found out today: part of the river Walbrook apparently originally sprang from just outside the front door of my block of flats.

    You are living over multiple layers of detritus dating back to before the Romans.
    Generally I try not to think too much about what lies beneath. I doubt it would be good for house prices to know.
    Oh I don't know, Alastair. It's good old Anglo-Saxon shit you are sitting on; none of that European muck.
    Not true, there's plenty of Roman muck from the earlier version of the Single Market.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 4,201
    Yorkcity said:

    In cricket news Essex have just comprehensively defeated Yorkshire.

    You have to wonder what sort of a wicket they were playing on though. The game barely lasted a day and a half. Essex have a pretty lively attack but it ain't that good. Yorkshire's bowlers may be a bit less sharp, but a very strong Essex batting side could only manage 231 against them.

    Do they play on corrugated iron at Scarborough these days?
    It was a bit windy the other day when I walked passed Scarborough cricket ground .I forgot how close it was to the sea, as it was years since I have been.Was on the way to see Madness at the Scarborough Open Theatre.
    Only been there once but it was to see Yorkshire play AER Gilligan's XI and the day remains a cherished memory. My recollection is that the track was batsman friendly. How times have changed.

    Or maybe the groundsman changed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 7,736

    Yorkcity said:

    Can Eire get its goods to market in the EU without going through the UK ?

    Yes. It may need to develop Cork & Cobh a bit more but it could do so. Both "face" northwestern France / Brittany
    There's a direct Cork to Roscoff ferry service by Brittany Ferries.
    And of course those Cork boats never sink.

    OK, I have my coat.
    Bonus Question - which famous historical naval person designed the Port of Dublin's self-dredging design?
    Well, I would have guessed a thousand times and not come up with that name.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 4,201

    Things I have found out today: part of the river Walbrook apparently originally sprang from just outside the front door of my block of flats.

    You are living over multiple layers of detritus dating back to before the Romans.
    Generally I try not to think too much about what lies beneath. I doubt it would be good for house prices to know.
    Oh I don't know, Alastair. It's good old Anglo-Saxon shit you are sitting on; none of that European muck.
    Not true, there's plenty of Roman muck from the earlier version of the Single Market.
    I blame Charlemagne myself.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 17,997

    In cricket news Essex have just comprehensively defeated Yorkshire.

    Can cricket have 'news'? Surely by the time a game finishes a new Ice Age has begun, the Apes have risen, and the result belongs firmly in the 'history' section ? ')
    Blasphemy! And from someone named Jessop!!!!!
    Gilbert Jessop is a non-entity, and will be forgotten along with the so-called 'sport' he played. Whereas my works, and those of my father and grandfather, will be remembered forever!

    Indeed, if I had not died before my time, I will have seen completed the synergistic link between canal and rail, the precursor of the modern age on which our very society relies!

    (Yes, it is all My fault). ;)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 19,125

    Things I have found out today: part of the river Walbrook apparently originally sprang from just outside the front door of my block of flats.

    Back in the day, the locals would have called it the Shitbrook.

    Medieval English was splendidly terse and to the point.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 17,997
    Sean_F said:

    Things I have found out today: part of the river Walbrook apparently originally sprang from just outside the front door of my block of flats.

    Back in the day, the locals would have called it the Shitbrook.

    Medieval English was splendidly terse and to the point.
    Indeed. Rarely has a city been as well named as 'Snottingham'.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 4,201
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I don't think the current team is 'working.'

    Seems harsh.

    8 of them are doing quite well. One deserves a bit more time.

    It's two of the other three I'm worried about.
    Yes, Westley has earned a bit more time, but in a way he demonstrates the laughable incompetence of the selectors because, as an Essex man, I can assure you the County has two other batsmen who deserved to be picked ahead of him - Lawrence and Browne. Now if he's not even in the top two at Essex, wtf is he doing in the England team? (And I'm ignoring Bopara who is also better than Westley and bowls a useful medium pace but has failed too many times in the past to merit another go.)

    And don't get me going on Dawson, please.
    I think it's probably a next cab off the rank job. He's been on their radar for a while, therefore he was the one picked. At least that may give encouragement to the others (bearing in mind Gloucestershire have had one player picked for England in 15 years despite significant one-day success in that time).

    Have to say though I could see a compelling case for trying Hales at three. While his earlier career has resembled Hick's in the wrong way, he has the potential to emulate the Hick who briefly looked the real deal as a Test number three in the mid 90s.
    Nah, I think at Test level you have to play people in their proper positions. You also have to pick players who are in form, unless they have such obvious class (Buttler) or such a long record of success at Test level (Cook) that you have to pick them anyway. So chuck out poor Jennings, and Malan and replace the former with Stonehouse, or Browne, or Hales, or some other in-form opener - and of course Buttler (if available) for Malan. If Buttler not available you go for N.E Other Informbatsman (Lawrence for example) or wicket-taking bowler - probably Rashid, but numerous options that are not called Dawson.

    It's not difficult really.

    Oh yes....drop Bayliss. That's essential.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,650
    Hamid 77 not out today. Batted for over five hours in an unpromising position. Has turned probable defeat into a possible victory for the mighty Lanky. Got a hundred for 2nd eleven last week too. Form temporary, class permanent.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 4,201
    dixiedean said:

    Hamid 77 not out today. Batted for over five hours in an unpromising position. Has turned probable defeat into a possible victory for the mighty Lanky. Got a hundred for 2nd eleven last week too. Form temporary, class permanent.

    If he played for Middlesex, he'd have fifty caps by now.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 19,125

    Sean_F said:

    Things I have found out today: part of the river Walbrook apparently originally sprang from just outside the front door of my block of flats.

    Back in the day, the locals would have called it the Shitbrook.

    Medieval English was splendidly terse and to the point.
    Indeed. Rarely has a city been as well named as 'Snottingham'.
    "The Town of Snot".

    Every major city had its GropeCunt Street.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,650

    dixiedean said:

    Hamid 77 not out today. Batted for over five hours in an unpromising position. Has turned probable defeat into a possible victory for the mighty Lanky. Got a hundred for 2nd eleven last week too. Form temporary, class permanent.

    If he played for Middlesex, he'd have fifty caps by now.
    Agree with the sentiment, although he is only 20. Brings me to another point. How does he play himself into form when there is no 4 day cricket for weeks at a time? He doesn't play one day.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 10,302
    edited August 7
    I'm actually surprised at how well things are going all things considering...

    When TM blew the election I thought we really was in the sh*t but it seems the ship has been steadied and negotiations appear to have gone well so far.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 4,201
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Hamid 77 not out today. Batted for over five hours in an unpromising position. Has turned probable defeat into a possible victory for the mighty Lanky. Got a hundred for 2nd eleven last week too. Form temporary, class permanent.

    If he played for Middlesex, he'd have fifty caps by now.
    Agree with the sentiment, although he is only 20. Brings me to another point. How does he play himself into form when there is no 4 day cricket for weeks at a time? He doesn't play one day.
    That's a serious problem, and the one real excuse the selectors have. It's impossible to 'demand' an England place through performances in County cricket. There just isn't enough of it.

    The vexed issue of England's opening partner for Cook is a good illustration. His Essex number two, Nick Browne, was in sensational form but if he had been picked for Old Trafford instead of the chronically out of form Jennings (who was actually out of form when picked for the first Test, but no matter) he would have been playing his first long-form game for a month. He may well have been out of form by then. Who knows?

    Don't know what the answer to that is, but picking out-of-form players sure isn't it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 17,997
    I've just discovered that Mrs J has never heard of the films, musical or book 'South Pacific' (*).

    Rarely has the gulf in our education and cultures been more sorely highlighted.

    (*) Although the book has a slightly different title.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 4,201
    GIN1138 said:

    I'm actually surprised at how well things are going all things considering...

    When TM blew the election I thought we really was in the sh*t but it seems the ship has been steadied and negotiations appear to have gone well so far.

    Aye aye, Cap'n.......Edward John Smith.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,650

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Hamid 77 not out today. Batted for over five hours in an unpromising position. Has turned probable defeat into a possible victory for the mighty Lanky. Got a hundred for 2nd eleven last week too. Form temporary, class permanent.

    If he played for Middlesex, he'd have fifty caps by now.
    Agree with the sentiment, although he is only 20. Brings me to another point. How does he play himself into form when there is no 4 day cricket for weeks at a time? He doesn't play one day.
    That's a serious problem, and the one real excuse the selectors have. It's impossible to 'demand' an England place through performances in County cricket. There just isn't enough of it.

    The vexed issue of England's opening partner for Cook is a good illustration. His Essex number two, Nick Browne, was in sensational form but if he had been picked for Old Trafford instead of the chronically out of form Jennings (who was actually out of form when picked for the first Test, but no matter) he would have been playing his first long-form game for a month. He may well have been out of form by then. Who knows?

    Don't know what the answer to that is, but picking out-of-form players sure isn't it.
    The structure of the domestic season needs looking at. As you say, there are no form players to pick, as nobody is playing championship games. This is also the time when weather usually is better and long innings can be played in better batting conditions.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 17,997

    Yorkcity said:

    Can Eire get its goods to market in the EU without going through the UK ?

    Yes. It may need to develop Cork & Cobh a bit more but it could do so. Both "face" northwestern France / Brittany
    There's a direct Cork to Roscoff ferry service by Brittany Ferries.
    And of course those Cork boats never sink.

    OK, I have my coat.
    Bonus Question - which famous historical naval person designed Dublin harbour's self-dredging design?
    Do you care to answer the question? ;)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 17,375
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ali has a Michelle, got to be in with a shout for Man of the Series.

    Just imagine how good our first choice spinner and those batsmen who are so much better than him that they are keeping him out of the No. 5 slot must be...
    Well, he's doing pretty well where he is; if it ain't broke...
    Yes, he's doing well.

    However, shall we say politely that our number five is about as much use as a Conservative election pledge? I don't think the current team is 'working.'

    Here's a controversial suggestion - Adil Rashid would score more runs than Dawid Malan. Discuss.
    Well of course he would. So would Woakes. But do we really need 6 bowlers?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 4,201
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Hamid 77 not out today. Batted for over five hours in an unpromising position. Has turned probable defeat into a possible victory for the mighty Lanky. Got a hundred for 2nd eleven last week too. Form temporary, class permanent.

    If he played for Middlesex, he'd have fifty caps by now.
    Agree with the sentiment, although he is only 20. Brings me to another point. How does he play himself into form when there is no 4 day cricket for weeks at a time? He doesn't play one day.
    That's a serious problem, and the one real excuse the selectors have. It's impossible to 'demand' an England place through performances in County cricket. There just isn't enough of it.

    The vexed issue of England's opening partner for Cook is a good illustration. His Essex number two, Nick Browne, was in sensational form but if he had been picked for Old Trafford instead of the chronically out of form Jennings (who was actually out of form when picked for the first Test, but no matter) he would have been playing his first long-form game for a month. He may well have been out of form by then. Who knows?

    Don't know what the answer to that is, but picking out-of-form players sure isn't it.
    The structure of the domestic season needs looking at. As you say, there are no form players to pick, as nobody is playing championship games. This is also the time when weather usually is better and long innings can be played in better batting conditions.
    Yes, but have a look at this scorecard from the match at Chelmsford played at the end of June, just before the month's break.

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8052/scorecard/1068554/Essex-vs-Middlesex--Specsavers-County-Championship-Division-One

    Observe the double century scored by the opener, Nick Browne. OK it was a pretty decent track but the seam attack of Finn and Roland-Jones isn't exactly sub-standard, and Essex did manage to bowl out Middlesex twice in two days on the same strip, so it wasn't exactly soporific.

    So now pretend you are Selector Bayliss and tell me why you picked Toblerone (look at his figures for the match) for the next Test, and stayed loyal to Jennings rather than pick Browne or any of the other in-form openers.

    Take your time.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 7,736
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ali has a Michelle, got to be in with a shout for Man of the Series.

    Just imagine how good our first choice spinner and those batsmen who are so much better than him that they are keeping him out of the No. 5 slot must be...
    Well, he's doing pretty well where he is; if it ain't broke...
    Yes, he's doing well.

    However, shall we say politely that our number five is about as much use as a Conservative election pledge? I don't think the current team is 'working.'

    Here's a controversial suggestion - Adil Rashid would score more runs than Dawid Malan. Discuss.
    Well of course he would. So would Woakes. But do we really need 6 bowlers?
    Do we really need 8 batsmen, two of whom can't bat?
This discussion has been closed.