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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Following her Boris paternity test joke Emily Thornberry becom

SystemSystem Posts: 3,967
edited October 4 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Following her Boris paternity test joke Emily Thornberry becomes favourite to succeed Corbyn

In the last few days there’s been a move to Emily Thornberry in the LAB leadership betting where she’s now favourite almost across the board.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 16,570
    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 17,660
    edited October 4
    Second!

    And to go off-topic immediately, Sputnik 1 was launched sixty years ago today. Four years later a man flew in space, nine years later the US overtook the USSR in the space race, and twelve years later man walked on the Moon.

    Since then access to space has revolutionised civilisation. And all thanks to a little bleeping satellite.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 1,955
    Rochester.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 12,023
    I'm on Thornberry. Got on at 27 back in Feb and topped up when Red Len started on about her talents.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 7,087
    My guess is that if there’s no earlier election he will have stood down before them.

    I disagree - he'll only go if his health fails and I reckon he's in quite good shape.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 12,023
    tlg86 said:

    My guess is that if there’s no earlier election he will have stood down before them.

    I disagree - he'll only go if his health fails and I reckon he's in quite good shape.

    I agree. Who ever, ever gives up the chance to be PM?

    I suppose there's a first time for everything.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 12,340

    tlg86 said:

    My guess is that if there’s no earlier election he will have stood down before them.

    I disagree - he'll only go if his health fails and I reckon he's in quite good shape.

    I agree. Who ever, ever gives up the chance to be PM?

    I suppose there's a first time for everything.
    Wellington, 1834.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 637
    Just found this on The Reg concerning Rudd, and, like this mighty organ, it is the comments which are even more interesting : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/03/amber_rudd_still_does_not_understand_encryption/
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 14,319
    Just stand back a moment.

    Emily Thornberry.

    Prime Minister Emily Thornberry.

    Just let that terrifying notion sink in.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 57,213
    edited October 4

    Just stand back a moment.

    Emily Thornberry.

    Prime Minister Emily Thornberry.

    Just let that terrifying notion sink in.

    Less terrifying than Corbyn, Boris, and May as PM.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 12,023

    Just stand back a moment.

    Emily Thornberry.

    Prime Minister Emily Thornberry.

    Just let that terrifying notion sink in.

    Less terrifying than Corbyn and May as PM.
    McD would still be Chancellor under Thornberry. Let that sink in.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 875

    Just stand back a moment.

    Emily Thornberry.

    Prime Minister Emily Thornberry.

    Just let that terrifying notion sink in.

    That might have had some resonance during the Cameronite years but now that we are enjoying the strength and stability of the May premiership Thornberry seems a credible candidate for PM.
  • I always thought there was an overreaction to her flag comment, and last week’s joke was the funniest joke in politics for ages.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 21,487
    DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
  • Just stand back a moment.

    Emily Thornberry.

    Prime Minister Emily Thornberry.

    Just let that terrifying notion sink in.

    Less terrifying than Corbyn and May as PM.
    McD would still be Chancellor under Thornberry. Let that sink in.
    Five years of that government would see the Labour Party out of power for a generation, so the short term economic hit would be worth it, as the Brexiteers put it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 12,023
    Dura_Ace said:

    Just stand back a moment.

    Emily Thornberry.

    Prime Minister Emily Thornberry.

    Just let that terrifying notion sink in.

    That might have had some resonance during the Cameronite years but now that we are enjoying the strength and stability of the May premiership Thornberry seems a credible candidate for PM.
    I don't have much longer May can last. The Laura K interview last night was excruciating. May is a nervous wreck frankly.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 12,023

    DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    Can she understand end-to-end encryption though?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,095
    edited October 4

    DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    It was Guido's spin on the Rochester Tweet rather than the Tweet itself that caused the problem. And if Tories think this from 2014 is a political problem shows how out of touch with reality they are.

    This kneejerk reaction is pathetic.
  • DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    I find the cross of St George amusing too.

    Our flag and patron saint is honouring some Johnny Foreigner who never stepped foot in L’Angleterre.

    Bloody foreigners not coming over here and stealing our patron saints and flags.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 24,104

    Just stand back a moment.

    Emily Thornberry.

    Prime Minister Emily Thornberry.

    Just let that terrifying notion sink in.

    Less terrifying than Corbyn and May as PM.
    McD would still be Chancellor under Thornberry. Let that sink in.

    I doubt that would be the case given that Corbyn is not going anywhere for a few years and McDonnell is getting older at exactly the same rate. Thornberry would undoubtedly widen the pool from which Labour front benchers are chosen. She is not my cup of tea, but if I were a Tory I would not want her in charge of Labour.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 8,166
    edited October 4
    I hadn't heard that 'joke' before but since the flags of St George/White van man episode I've been a fan. By a distance the most articulate of the Labour possibles and with a pleasant enthusiasm.

    She's also full of confidence which is understandable when you look at the performance of Accrington Stanley's finest in Manchester ths week
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 21,487
    Roger said:

    I hadn't heard that 'joke' before but since the flags of St George/White van man episode I've been a fan. By a distance the most articulate of the Labour possibles and with a pleasant manner.

    She's also full of confidence which is understandable when you look at the performance of Accrington Stanley's finest in Manchester ths week

    Says a lot about you.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 954
    At the beginning of the last election campaign there was a period when Emily Thornberry seemed to be the only Labour politician doing any work. She was on the telly and the radio all the time. At that stage I still shared the generally accepted view that Corbyn's rallies were self indulgent or aimed at the faithful for the aftermath of the inevitable Labour defeat. I thought that she was doing well, but that it would effectively finish off her career by so closely associating herself with a disaster. Funny how wrong one can be.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 9,046

    DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    I find the cross of St George amusing too.

    Our flag and patron saint is honouring some Johnny Foreigner who never stepped foot in L’Angleterre.

    Bloody foreigners not coming over here and stealing our patron saints and flags.
    Usurped the position of St Edmund, late King of East Anglia.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 9,361
    edited October 4
    I don't think Corbyn will stand down before the election, but I agree Emily looks a very strong candidate when he does. The only Tory attack lines seem to be "Lady Nugent" (shrug), something about claiming military rank inappropriately (obscure) and her wry comment on the guy with the huge flag (get over it). She is not especially left-wing but she's from the North London core of the Corbynist movement.

    Technical speech-making note: usually it's unwise to laugh at your own jokes, but in the clip she seems to pull it off, by making herself part of the fun, like equals chuckling together in a room rather than a lofty speaker haranguing the masses.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 17,660

    DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    The reaction to Thornberry's tweet amused me when it occurred. Yes, she over-reacted, but there is a deeper point in what you say: do you thin it is ever permissible to find someone's use of the flag of your nation amusing, or even embarrassing?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 24,104
    edited October 4

    At the beginning of the last election campaign there was a period when Emily Thornberry seemed to be the only Labour politician doing any work. She was on the telly and the radio all the time. At that stage I still shared the generally accepted view that Corbyn's rallies were self indulgent or aimed at the faithful for the aftermath of the inevitable Labour defeat. I thought that she was doing well, but that it would effectively finish off her career by so closely associating herself with a disaster. Funny how wrong one can be.

    She is a smart, pragmatic, career politician, without any discernible ideological obsessions. However, I would not worry too much about Len McCluskey's endorsement. It's Momentum Ltd that she needs to keep on the right side of. That means Jon Lansman. My guess is that Lansman knows she is not "one of us".

    One of the less reported aspects of the Labour leadership election rule change is that it only applies to contests in which the incumbent is not taking part. That means to challenge a sitting Labour leader, the backing of 15% of MPs is still needed. That, in turn, makes an incumbent leader pretty hard to replace - especially one that might be in office. If the wrong leader is elected from Momentum Ltd's point of view, there is no easy way to make amends.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 10,009

    I always thought there was an overreaction to her flag comment, and last week’s joke was the funniest joke in politics for ages.

    Surely now superseded by Boris's dead bodies gag?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 8,101
    Doubt she wins a leadership election, to be honest.

    Labour don't have a great track record at electing women to leadership positions....
  • RogerRoger Posts: 8,166


    ......and the song works. Oh, Em-ily-Thorn-Ber-ry
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 3,407
    Perhaps this should be known as "Cableism" or the "Uncle Vince manoeuvre"?

    Make a witty crack about someone flaling around in government and all of a sudden you are leadership material.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 7,087

    DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    The reaction to Thornberry's tweet amused me when it occurred. Yes, she over-reacted, but there is a deeper point in what you say: do you thin it is ever permissible to find someone's use of the flag of your nation amusing, or even embarrassing?
    I reckon the poor bloke was probably even more bemused by the fuss that was made. I suspect to him, flying the flag is no big deal. What the whole episode showed was that there is a big disconnect between the likes of Thornberry and the average voter in a marginal seat.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 8,166

    I always thought there was an overreaction to her flag comment, and last week’s joke was the funniest joke in politics for ages.

    Surely now superseded by Boris's dead bodies gag?
    Yes that was a cracker!
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 637

    DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    What she found amusing was that a local council was allowing the house to be draped with flags. Most other councils would have slapped the householder with an enforcement order to remove them.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 57,213
    edited October 4
    She also gave Sir Micky Fallon a good shoeing during the campaign.

    Lady Nugee should push her posho credentials, as Cameron showed, the country likes a posho.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 3,021

    I always thought there was an overreaction to her flag comment, and last week’s joke was the funniest joke in politics for ages.

    It was mildly amusing, though rather spoiled by her laughing along with herself as she told it, but 'funniest for ages' ? Not a lot of competition, I guess.
    That said, she is probably Labour's most effective performer to any audience but the true believers, and a million times more comfortable in her own skin than is May.
  • I always thought there was an overreaction to her flag comment, and last week’s joke was the funniest joke in politics for ages.

    Surely now superseded by Boris's dead bodies gag?
    Well I’m the last person who should criticise someone else for telling tactless jokes
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 8,101
    OchEye said:

    DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    What she found amusing was that a local council was allowing the house to be draped with flags. Most other councils would have slapped the householder with an enforcement order to remove them.
    Scotland is not England.

  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 2,539

    I don't think Corbyn will stand down before the election, but I agree Emily looks a very strong candidate when he does. The only Tory attack lines seem to be "Lady Nugent" (shrug), something about claiming military rank inappropriately (obscure) and her wry comment on the guy with the huge flag (get over it). She is not especially left-wing but she's from the North London core of the Corbynist movement.

    Technical speech-making note: usually it's unwise to laugh at your own jokes, but in the clip she seems to pull it off, by making herself part of the fun, like equals chuckling together in a room rather than a lofty speaker haranguing the masses.

    Wasn't a massive fan of Thornberry but seems she has become more comfortable in her leading role and now does well on TV.

    She may not be as left wing as Jeremy - but she has shown rather more sense than other Labour MPs in backing him and trying to make the best of it.

    Her past misteps are minor as you say.

    My concern would be is that she is very obviously London + middle class - and so may struggle to get traction criticising the Tories on certain topics...

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,095

    She also gave Sir Micky Fallon a good shoeing during the campaign.

    Lady Nugee should push her posho credentials, as Cameron showed, the country likes a posho.

    Emily's dad was one of my professors when I was at the LSE in the 60s
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 637
    Mortimer said:

    OchEye said:

    DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    What she found amusing was that a local council was allowing the house to be draped with flags. Most other councils would have slapped the householder with an enforcement order to remove them.
    Scotland is not England.

    Check you local regulations, most councils have similar rules. And no, it doesn't matter if it is a flag of whichever nation, or an advertising banner either. So long as you are not taking the p*ss and the banner or flags are temporary and relevant, no action will be taken, but really, this guy had stuck a catheter up the regulations...
  • She also gave Sir Micky Fallon a good shoeing during the campaign.

    Lady Nugee should push her posho credentials, as Cameron showed, the country likes a posho.

    Emily's dad was one of my professors when I was at the LSE in the 60s
    He was a very impressive fellow.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 21,487

    DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    It was Guido's spin on the Rochester Tweet rather than the Tweet itself that caused the problem. And if Tories think this from 2014 is a political problem shows how out of touch with reality they are.

    This kneejerk reaction is pathetic.
    The Tweet spoke for itself.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 21,487
    OchEye said:

    DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    What she found amusing was that a local council was allowing the house to be draped with flags. Most other councils would have slapped the householder with an enforcement order to remove them.
    WTF? Why can't people cover their homes with flags?
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 5,199
    OchEye said:

    Just found this on The Reg concerning Rudd, and, like this mighty organ, it is the comments which are even more interesting : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/03/amber_rudd_still_does_not_understand_encryption/

    My favourite, but I didn't read all 263 (currently).

    Re: Techies will continue to sneer.
    Here's a novel idea: if you're going to make laws about something, either understand what it is you're making laws about, or find someone who does and get them to explain it to you. If you don't understand it, maybe you should wait to make a law about it until you do.
    Note:
    This applies on both sides of the Atlantic.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 1,955

    DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    It was Guido's spin on the Rochester Tweet rather than the Tweet itself that caused the problem. And if Tories think this from 2014 is a political problem shows how out of touch with reality they are.

    This kneejerk reaction is pathetic.
    The Tweet spoke for itself.
    It did - the guy’s house looked like an EDL shrine. Who on earth would want to live next to that?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 4,011
    Mrs May had always been a poor speaker and interviewee. I said so on here when the fans were having orgasms about what was a mediocre performance at her first PMQs. Unfortunately, it's what politicians are judged on.

    Jezza was very poor at first, but he improved with practice, something our current PM has not done. "She ain't no politician bruv".

    Lady Nugee I put in the same bracket as George. No matter what they say, the smarminess comes across strongly.
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 1,561
    OchEye said:

    DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    What she found amusing was that a local council was allowing the house to be draped with flags. Most other councils would have slapped the householder with an enforcement order to remove them.
    What you have to bear in mind is that she conveyed all of the above with the three words "Image from Rochester".
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,420
    rkrkrk said:

    I don't think Corbyn will stand down before the election, but I agree Emily looks a very strong candidate when he does. The only Tory attack lines seem to be "Lady Nugent" (shrug), something about claiming military rank inappropriately (obscure) and her wry comment on the guy with the huge flag (get over it). She is not especially left-wing but she's from the North London core of the Corbynist movement.

    Technical speech-making note: usually it's unwise to laugh at your own jokes, but in the clip she seems to pull it off, by making herself part of the fun, like equals chuckling together in a room rather than a lofty speaker haranguing the masses.

    Wasn't a massive fan of Thornberry but seems she has become more comfortable in her leading role and now does well on TV.

    She may not be as left wing as Jeremy - but she has shown rather more sense than other Labour MPs in backing him and trying to make the best of it.

    Her past misteps are minor as you say.

    My concern would be is that she is very obviously London + middle class - and so may struggle to get traction criticising the Tories on certain topics...

    My concern regarding her too. Would be 3 successive leaders from or representing London. Not her fault, but could be described as a pattern were she to take over.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 21,487
    Mortimer said:

    OchEye said:

    DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    What she found amusing was that a local council was allowing the house to be draped with flags. Most other councils would have slapped the householder with an enforcement order to remove them.
    Scotland is not England.

    I presume if they'd been Saltires the council would congratulate them for their sense of civic pride.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 1,815
    OchEye said:

    Just found this on The Reg concerning Rudd, and, like this mighty organ, it is the comments which are even more interesting : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/03/amber_rudd_still_does_not_understand_encryption/

    The people who advise her from GCHQ will understand encryption perfectly well.

    I think rather than Rudd not understanding encryption its the Register that doesn't understand intelligence work.

    Also if you read what she says, what they want the tech community to do is a bit more subtle than a straight backdoor into the encryption.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,420

    OchEye said:

    DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    What she found amusing was that a local council was allowing the house to be draped with flags. Most other councils would have slapped the householder with an enforcement order to remove them.
    What you have to bear in mind is that she conveyed all of the above with the three words "Image from Rochester".
    Yeah, I never quite got that. Image from Rochester....factually accurate.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 13,797
    OchEye said:

    Just found this on The Reg concerning Rudd, and, like this mighty organ, it is the comments which are even more interesting : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/03/amber_rudd_still_does_not_understand_encryption/

    LOL, she really doesn’t understand encryption at all - she clearly thinks it’s something that only terrorists and criminals are using, rather than a massive enabler of online commerce and messaging. She does seem to seriously think that legislation can ban mathematics and computing power.

    Some brilliant comments under that article from the tech community, who have of course been saying the same to several Home Secretaries over the years.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 8,166

    Roger said:

    Just heard an interesting piece on 'shy Tories' and 'shy Brexiteers'. Thanks to social media it seems that many under 50's are too embarrassed to admit to being Tory voters and and even more so at having voted 'Leave'.
    I was pleased to hear it. With very few exeptions I loathe the values of those who voted 'Leave'. Less so voting Tory. To hear they at least have an understanding that their prejudices aren't widely shared by their contempories is some relief

    Wow this is so utterly contemptible.

    You're proud of the fact that you and people like you are so mean and without compassion that others have to hide what they think? I have many friends on both sides of all sorts of political divides and I would never expect them to hide that.
    On the morning after the vote like a lot of people I was completely depressed. Less that we would no longer be a member of the EU (though that was significant) but in the knowledge that in the country I called home 52% were racist /Faragists and I never knew.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 10,044
    Theresa May thinks the Cabinet needs to "shape up" ?

    This from a woman who managed to blow a 20% lead in four weeks????
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 2,159
    edited October 4
    tlg86 said:

    My guess is that if there’s no earlier election he will have stood down before them.

    I disagree - he'll only go if his health fails and I reckon he's in quite good shape.

    The odds on Betfair on Corbyn still being in place in 2020 is about 60% probability (compared with about 12% for May). That seems a bit low for both of them.

    If May stays as leader then I don't think there will be an early GE. If she is replaced, then I think the parliamentary Tory party will not be able to hold together sufficiently to prevent an early election. That's why it is unlikely she will be replaced until after 2020. They'll just soldier on.
  • DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    It was Guido's spin on the Rochester Tweet rather than the Tweet itself that caused the problem. And if Tories think this from 2014 is a political problem shows how out of touch with reality they are.

    This kneejerk reaction is pathetic.
    That it was just "Guido's spin" is, frankly, nonsense. Her subsequent explanation was deeply unconvincing and there were even members of the Labour shadow cabinet who were visibly embarrassed.

    And dont think this doesnt continue to play against Labour. It is just this sort of attitude that lost parts of the North and the Midlands for them in June..

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 6,635
    CD13 said:

    Mrs May had always been a poor speaker and interviewee. I said so on here when the fans were having orgasms about what was a mediocre performance at her first PMQs. Unfortunately, it's what politicians are judged on.

    Jezza was very poor at first, but he improved with practice, something our current PM has not done. "She ain't no politician bruv".

    Lady Nugee I put in the same bracket as George. No matter what they say, the smarminess comes across strongly.

    +1
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 10,009
    edited October 4
    dixiedean said:

    OchEye said:

    DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    What she found amusing was that a local council was allowing the house to be draped with flags. Most other councils would have slapped the householder with an enforcement order to remove them.
    What you have to bear in mind is that she conveyed all of the above with the three words "Image from Rochester".
    Yeah, I never quite got that. Image from Rochester....factually accurate.
    A lot of hair trigger reactionaries waiting to be outraged obviously. Perhaps they need a safe space.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 13,797

    DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    It was Guido's spin on the Rochester Tweet rather than the Tweet itself that caused the problem. And if Tories think this from 2014 is a political problem shows how out of touch with reality they are.

    This kneejerk reaction is pathetic.
    That it was just "Guido's spin" is, frankly, nonsense. Her subsequent explanation was deeply unconvincing and there were even members of the Labour shadow cabinet who were visibly embarrassed.

    And dont think this doesnt continue to play against Labour. It is just this sort of attitude that lost parts of the North and the Midlands for them in June..
    Yes, it’s the party of the working man commenting on how horrible it is that England football fans might display flags during the World Cup.

    We’re seeing the same in the UK and the US, that the party that used to support the working man is being taken over by the “liberal” middle classes who find their own traditional voters to be, umm, how to say, deplorable.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 8,498
    I find flag flying deeply suspicious. The only appropriate locations for flags are outside major government buildings (included in that are all embassies/consulates for ease of location for a stranded foreigner), international sporting venues on the day of a match and the type of ultra expensive hotels that the louche, blootered, super rich stay at to give them a hint at what country they just flew into.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 1,815
    Alistair said:

    I find flag flying deeply suspicious. The only appropriate locations for flags are outside major government buildings (included in that are all embassies/consulates for ease of location for a stranded foreigner), international sporting venues on the day of a match and the type of ultra expensive hotels that the louche, blootered, super rich stay at to give them a hint at what country they just flew into.

    Flags on number plates are the worst sort of nationalist xenophobia.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 25,063
    Alistair said:

    I find flag flying deeply suspicious. The only appropriate locations for flags are outside major government buildings (included in that are all embassies/consulates for ease of location for a stranded foreigner), international sporting venues on the day of a match and the type of ultra expensive hotels that the louche, blootered, super rich stay at to give them a hint at what country they just flew into.

    Just ironing my Union Jack underpants right now - I've been "triggered" by your "deplorable" comment :lol:
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 8,101
    Alistair said:

    I find flag flying deeply suspicious. The only appropriate locations for flags are outside major government buildings (included in that are all embassies/consulates for ease of location for a stranded foreigner), international sporting venues on the day of a match and the type of ultra expensive hotels that the louche, blootered, super rich stay at to give them a hint at what country they just flew into.

    Good for you.

    But just because this is your preference doesn't mean you'd stop others, I imagine?
  • Alistair said:

    I find flag flying deeply suspicious. The only appropriate locations for flags are outside major government buildings (included in that are all embassies/consulates for ease of location for a stranded foreigner), international sporting venues on the day of a match and the type of ultra expensive hotels that the louche, blootered, super rich stay at to give them a hint at what country they just flew into.

    Just ironing my Union Jack underpants right now - I've been "triggered" by your "deplorable" comment :lol:
    So you respect our flag so much you put your dangly bits on it.

    Bizarre.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 29,510
    JonathanD said:

    Alistair said:

    I find flag flying deeply suspicious. The only appropriate locations for flags are outside major government buildings (included in that are all embassies/consulates for ease of location for a stranded foreigner), international sporting venues on the day of a match and the type of ultra expensive hotels that the louche, blootered, super rich stay at to give them a hint at what country they just flew into.

    Flags on number plates are the worst sort of nationalist xenophobia.
    Especially that blue one with the gold stars. ;)
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 6,635
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Just heard an interesting piece on 'shy Tories' and 'shy Brexiteers'. Thanks to social media it seems that many under 50's are too embarrassed to admit to being Tory voters and and even more so at having voted 'Leave'.
    I was pleased to hear it. With very few exeptions I loathe the values of those who voted 'Leave'. Less so voting Tory. To hear they at least have an understanding that their prejudices aren't widely shared by their contempories is some relief

    Wow this is so utterly contemptible.

    You're proud of the fact that you and people like you are so mean and without compassion that others have to hide what they think? I have many friends on both sides of all sorts of political divides and I would never expect them to hide that.
    On the morning after the vote like a lot of people I was completely depressed. Less that we would no longer be a member of the EU (though that was significant) but in the knowledge that in the country I called home 52% were racist /Faragists and I never knew.
    Says a guy who wouldn't dream of living in a city where I live.
  • Lady Nugee is a divisive and out of touch figure. She and her type are anathema to many traditional Labour voters beyond the metropolitan districts of southern and central England.

    It speaks volumes about PB that so many PG posters including OGH cant see this.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 3,021
    Sandpit said:

    OchEye said:

    Just found this on The Reg concerning Rudd, and, like this mighty organ, it is the comments which are even more interesting : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/03/amber_rudd_still_does_not_understand_encryption/

    LOL, she really doesn’t understand encryption at all - she clearly thinks it’s something that only terrorists and criminals are using, rather than a massive enabler of online commerce and messaging. She does seem to seriously think that legislation can ban mathematics and computing power.

    Some brilliant comments under that article from the tech community, who have of course been saying the same to several Home Secretaries over the years.
    This quote, if accurate, is astonishing:
    "I do feel that there is a sea of criticism for any of us who try and legislate in new areas, who will automatically be sneered at and laughed at for not getting it right..."

    Surely 'getting it right' is a sine qua non for any legislation ?
    Or perhaps she has picked up the idea of beta testing from the tech industry...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 10,009

    Alistair said:

    I find flag flying deeply suspicious. The only appropriate locations for flags are outside major government buildings (included in that are all embassies/consulates for ease of location for a stranded foreigner), international sporting venues on the day of a match and the type of ultra expensive hotels that the louche, blootered, super rich stay at to give them a hint at what country they just flew into.

    Just ironing my Union Jack underpants right now - I've been "triggered" by your "deplorable" comment :lol:
    So you respect our flag so much you put your dangly bits on it.

    Bizarre.
    Teabags, another great British institution.
  • Alistair said:

    I find flag flying deeply suspicious. The only appropriate locations for flags are outside major government buildings (included in that are all embassies/consulates for ease of location for a stranded foreigner), international sporting venues on the day of a match and the type of ultra expensive hotels that the louche, blootered, super rich stay at to give them a hint at what country they just flew into.

    Just ironing my Union Jack underpants right now - I've been "triggered" by your "deplorable" comment :lol:
    So you respect our flag so much you put your dangly bits on it.

    Bizarre.
    Teabags, another great British institution.
    Indeed.

    image
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 25,063
    edited October 4

    Alistair said:

    I find flag flying deeply suspicious. The only appropriate locations for flags are outside major government buildings (included in that are all embassies/consulates for ease of location for a stranded foreigner), international sporting venues on the day of a match and the type of ultra expensive hotels that the louche, blootered, super rich stay at to give them a hint at what country they just flew into.

    Just ironing my Union Jack underpants right now - I've been "triggered" by your "deplorable" comment :lol:
    So you respect our flag so much you put your dangly bits on it.

    Bizarre.
    It was a JOKE, you humourless REMAINER! :lol:
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 6,831
    JonathanD said:

    OchEye said:

    Just found this on The Reg concerning Rudd, and, like this mighty organ, it is the comments which are even more interesting : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/03/amber_rudd_still_does_not_understand_encryption/

    The people who advise her from GCHQ will understand encryption perfectly well.

    I think rather than Rudd not understanding encryption its the Register that doesn't understand intelligence work.

    Also if you read what she says, what they want the tech community to do is a bit more subtle than a straight backdoor into the encryption.
    Rudd has two problems: one is that what she wants is either technically absurd or ill-defined.

    The other is that it is unthinkingly illiberal -- sure the bad guys watch videos of ISIL atrocities but hands up who watched 500 Americans get shot in Las Vegas. Clearly Rudd doesn't want to lock up everyone who has watched the news, but missions creep and the zeitgeist changes and suddenly we are tracking people who watch Jacob Rees-Mogg -- after all, he wants to replace the democratically-elected PM *and* he thinks gay people shouldn't drive Bentleys, or whatever it was.

  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 2,159

    OchEye said:

    DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    What she found amusing was that a local council was allowing the house to be draped with flags. Most other councils would have slapped the householder with an enforcement order to remove them.
    What you have to bear in mind is that she conveyed all of the above with the three words "Image from Rochester".
    What do you think motivated her to do that tweet?

    I think she was amused by the OTT display and the caricature it presented of a certain type of voter. She's easily amused and she thought it would amuse others. I admit I smiled at it so it amused me. I also admit that revealed condescension and superiority on my part but so what. Tough.

    There's only a problem if you want the vote of someone like the flag displayer and the Labour Party did. That is why she got into trouble.

  • stevefstevef Posts: 256
    As a lifelong Labour supporter who cannot support Corbyn -he makes my flesh creep -I would be delighted if Thornberry became Labour leader. She's clever in more ways than one. The Corbynistas might think that she is one of themselves, but she isnt hard left but more mainstream in the Barbara Castle mode. She would heal the Labour Party of its divisions, and -yes she would win a general election -something I continue to believe that Corbyn will never do -and would be appalled if he did since he would toxify Labour for a generation.
  • glwglw Posts: 3,853
    edited October 4
    Sandpit said:

    OchEye said:

    Just found this on The Reg concerning Rudd, and, like this mighty organ, it is the comments which are even more interesting : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/03/amber_rudd_still_does_not_understand_encryption/

    LOL, she really doesn’t understand encryption at all - she clearly thinks it’s something that only terrorists and criminals are using, rather than a massive enabler of online commerce and messaging. She does seem to seriously think that legislation can ban mathematics and computing power.

    Some brilliant comments under that article from the tech community, who have of course been saying the same to several Home Secretaries over the years.
    What Rudd wants is the for the service providers to "backdoor" their own apps and services, so that the government can avoid mandating a backdoor or trying to regulate encryption. Which would look bad, and ultimately be ineffective.

    The real problem is that if the likes of WhatsApp add some sort of capability to fetch retained messages from a device for the UK government, so that technically the message transport is still encrypted from end-to-end, they are likely to have to do something similar for other governments, or else. Indeed China is currently interfering with the use of WhatsApp as it shares similar views to our government about such services..

    So the end point of the government's brilliant idea is likely to be a severe weakening of the security of messaging services, with them riddled with "lawful access" capabilities for governments. Bad guys will use non-compliant apps and services, and where necessary tunnel through the compliant services. That almost certainly happens today unless the bad guys are particularly dim.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 8,101
    @DecrepitJohnL - JRM is probably May's most vocal supporter.

    He could be her Willie.

    Getting JRM into the cabinet is a must.
  • tysontyson Posts: 4,047
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Just heard an interesting piece on 'shy Tories' and 'shy Brexiteers'. Thanks to social media it seems that many under 50's are too embarrassed to admit to being Tory voters and and even more so at having voted 'Leave'.
    I was pleased to hear it. With very few exeptions I loathe the values of those who voted 'Leave'. Less so voting Tory. To hear they at least have an understanding that their prejudices aren't widely shared by their contempories is some relief

    Wow this is so utterly contemptible.

    You're proud of the fact that you and people like you are so mean and without compassion that others have to hide what they think? I have many friends on both sides of all sorts of political divides and I would never expect them to hide that.
    On the morning after the vote like a lot of people I was completely depressed. Less that we would no longer be a member of the EU (though that was significant) but in the knowledge that in the country I called home 52% were racist /Faragists and I never knew.
    What a prat....not you Roger, but the other one.
    I couldn't have friends who voted leave... NFW.....I just wouldn't want to mix with that kind of blinkered, narrow minded, bigoted person. They are not characteristics that induce me to friendship. After all that vote has caused me to move country, caused my wife immeasurable anxiety and grief and her parents too, and genuinely makes me worried for the prosperity of our country which I believe will be hit a lot harder than any socialist revival under Corbyn ever could. At least an attempt at socialist redistribution would be based on good intentions to help the disadvantaged. The basis of the leave vote was purely achieved by exploiting mean spirited nationalism and xenophobia.

    I really do pity the pathetic, nationalist creatures that pervade this site..the Faragists, or old pbCOM Tories, blinkered in their irrational ideology that is utterly corrosive and damaging. I couldn't be friends with them, NFW...I wouldn't want to share a beer with them. Nope.
  • @Prof. Colin Talbot: How to turn an idiosyncratic blunder into Party policy... Lesson 1:

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 13,797
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    OchEye said:

    Just found this on The Reg concerning Rudd, and, like this mighty organ, it is the comments which are even more interesting : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/03/amber_rudd_still_does_not_understand_encryption/

    LOL, she really doesn’t understand encryption at all - she clearly thinks it’s something that only terrorists and criminals are using, rather than a massive enabler of online commerce and messaging. She does seem to seriously think that legislation can ban mathematics and computing power.

    Some brilliant comments under that article from the tech community, who have of course been saying the same to several Home Secretaries over the years.
    This quote, if accurate, is astonishing:
    "I do feel that there is a sea of criticism for any of us who try and legislate in new areas, who will automatically be sneered at and laughed at for not getting it right..."

    Surely 'getting it right' is a sine qua non for any legislation ?
    Or perhaps she has picked up the idea of beta testing from the tech industry...
    She’s probably planning to release beta legislation, in the same way that the software industry now thinks it’s okay to use their customers as their QA department.

    Seriously though, the HS (and the previous one, who got a promotion) just doesn't understand the issue at all. The HO really need to have a couple of IT advisors who can give them the other side of GCHQ’s and MI5’s views on encryption.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 57,213
    edited October 4
    Mortimer said:

    @DecrepitJohnL - JRM is probably May's most vocal supporter.

    He could be her Willie.

    Getting JRM into the cabinet is a must.

    You really do hate the Tory party don’t you.

    Because having sycophants around Mrs May helped in June.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 614
    Any probability May will announce her resignation today? (Or set a date to leave?) Time to let some new blood take charge.
  • NonreglaNonregla Posts: 35
    edited October 4
    "(T)he fact that there is a capable McCluskey approved alternative in the wings puts her in a strong position."

    It has been clear for some time that Thornberry is highly capable, but far from putting her in a strong position for a job that isn't available, her strength puts Labour in a strong position. Labour have got a capable leader and they have also got a credible and capable successor when the time comes. The Tories have got neither. The senior parliamentary Tory echelon is correctly viewed by most people as a shower of incompetents, backbiters and headbangers.

    The only option for the Tories is to build up a third force that can take votes from Labour. This can't be the Liberal Democrats (discredited) or UKIP (U-who?). A far-right Brexitoid party is possible, perhaps with Boris in it. A far-left party or movement is just about possible. It's hard to envisage where an electoral one might come from, but an extra-parliamentary one perhaps with some friends who participate in elections could be on the cards. The losing by Labour of any electoral support will be welcome by the Tories. What is obvious is that a lot of marketing will be directed at young people. Labour's promise to abolish tuition fees and restore student grants was an enormous vote-winner.

    A year or two down the line things will look different because the Tories will not just hand over, not when the economy could blow almost at any time.

    As for the idea that Theresa May will be the Tory leader who contests the next election, that is just a fantasy. Within a year or two she will be out and forgotten.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 6,831
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    It was Guido's spin on the Rochester Tweet rather than the Tweet itself that caused the problem. And if Tories think this from 2014 is a political problem shows how out of touch with reality they are.

    This kneejerk reaction is pathetic.
    That it was just "Guido's spin" is, frankly, nonsense. Her subsequent explanation was deeply unconvincing and there were even members of the Labour shadow cabinet who were visibly embarrassed.

    And dont think this doesnt continue to play against Labour. It is just this sort of attitude that lost parts of the North and the Midlands for them in June..
    Yes, it’s the party of the working man commenting on how horrible it is that England football fans might display flags during the World Cup.

    We’re seeing the same in the UK and the US, that the party that used to support the working man is being taken over by the “liberal” middle classes who find their own traditional voters to be, umm, how to say, deplorable.
    True -- though any voter with a couple of white vans out front is probably not a mere worker but a thrusting entrepreneur who ought to be of interest to the Conservative Party -- and would have been in the Thatcher/Tebbit era.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 8,101
    edited October 4
    tyson said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Just heard an interesting piece on 'shy Tories' and 'shy Brexiteers'. Thanks to social media it seems that many under 50's are too embarrassed to admit to being Tory voters and and even more so at having voted 'Leave'.
    I was pleased to hear it. With very few exeptions I loathe the values of those who voted 'Leave'. Less so voting Tory. To hear they at least have an understanding that their prejudices aren't widely shared by their contempories is some relief

    Wow this is so utterly contemptible.

    You're proud of the fact that you and people like you are so mean and without compassion that others have to hide what they think? I have many friends on both sides of all sorts of political divides and I would never expect them to hide that.
    On the morning after the vote like a lot of people I was completely depressed. Less that we would no longer be a member of the EU (though that was significant) but in the knowledge that in the country I called home 52% were racist /Faragists and I never knew.
    What a prat....not you Roger, but the other one.
    I couldn't have friends who voted leave... NFW.....I just wouldn't want to mix with that kind of blinkered, narrow minded, bigoted person. They are not characteristics that induce me to friendship. After all that vote has caused me to move country, caused my wife immeasurable anxiety and grief and her parents too, and genuinely makes me worried for the prosperity of our country which I believe will be hit a lot harder than any socialist revival under Corbyn ever could. At least an attempt at socialist redistribution would be based on good intentions to help the disadvantaged. The basis of the leave vote was purely achieved by exploiting mean spirited nationalism and xenophobia.

    I really do pity the pathetic, nationalist creatures that pervade this site..the Faragists, or old pbCOM Tories, blinkered in their irrational ideology that is utterly corrosive and damaging. I couldn't be friends with them, NFW...I wouldn't want to share a beer with them. Nope.
    And you think they're blinkered and narrow minded?

    Remind us again why you moved county?

    Btw, the other day ISTR you mentioned that you'd happily pay more tax. HMRC will willingly accept overpayments, you know.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 5,199
    RobD said:

    JonathanD said:

    Alistair said:

    I find flag flying deeply suspicious. The only appropriate locations for flags are outside major government buildings (included in that are all embassies/consulates for ease of location for a stranded foreigner), international sporting venues on the day of a match and the type of ultra expensive hotels that the louche, blootered, super rich stay at to give them a hint at what country they just flew into.

    Flags on number plates are the worst sort of nationalist xenophobia.
    Especially that blue one with the gold stars. ;)
    Yes, leave that for the Queen's hat.
  • Two RAF typhoon fighter jets escort a Ryanair jet into Luton
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 13,797
    edited October 4
    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    OchEye said:

    Just found this on The Reg concerning Rudd, and, like this mighty organ, it is the comments which are even more interesting : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/03/amber_rudd_still_does_not_understand_encryption/

    LOL, she really doesn’t understand encryption at all - she clearly thinks it’s something that only terrorists and criminals are using, rather than a massive enabler of online commerce and messaging. She does seem to seriously think that legislation can ban mathematics and computing power.

    Some brilliant comments under that article from the tech community, who have of course been saying the same to several Home Secretaries over the years.
    What Rudd wants is the for the service providers to "backdoor" their own apps and services, so that the government can avoid mandating a backdoor or trying to regulate encryption. Which would look bad, and ultimately be ineffective.

    The real problem is that if the likes of WhatsApp add some sort of capability to fetch retained messages from a device for the UK government, so that technically the message transport is still encrypted from end-to-end, they are likely to have to do something similar for other governments, or else. Indeed China is currently interfering with the use of WhatsApp as it shares similar views to our government about such services..

    So the end point of the government's brilliant idea is likely to be a severe weakening of the security of messaging services, with them riddled with "lawful access" capabilities for governments. Bad guys will use non-compliant apps and services, and where necessary tunnel through the compliant services. That almost certainly happens today unless the bad guys are particularly dim.
    Agree completely, and remember that WhatsApp are now Facebook who have their own issues with governments.

    Everyone will just move to Signal as soon as WhatsApp gets compromised.

    The key company is actually Apple, they’re seriously well resourced and have shown they’re prepared to put privacy concerns of their customers above government spying requests. cf the San Bernardino gunman’s iPhone.
  • stevef said:

    As a lifelong Labour supporter who cannot support Corbyn -he makes my flesh creep -I would be delighted if Thornberry became Labour leader. She's clever in more ways than one. The Corbynistas might think that she is one of themselves, but she isnt hard left but more mainstream in the Barbara Castle mode. She would heal the Labour Party of its divisions, and -yes she would win a general election -something I continue to believe that Corbyn will never do -and would be appalled if he did since he would toxify Labour for a generation.


    Yes. A Corbyn-led government will destroy Labour as a party of government, possibly forever. There would be no way back for moderate Labour MPs whose future credibility will have been destroyed by their current Stockholm syndrome pyschosis.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 6,635
    tyson said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Just heard an interesting piece on 'shy Tories' and 'shy Brexiteers'. Thanks to social media it seems that many under 50's are too embarrassed to admit to being Tory voters and and even more so at having voted 'Leave'.
    I was pleased to hear it. With very few exeptions I loathe the values of those who voted 'Leave'. Less so voting Tory. To hear they at least have an understanding that their prejudices aren't widely shared by their contempories is some relief

    Wow this is so utterly contemptible.

    You're proud of the fact that you and people like you are so mean and without compassion that others have to hide what they think? I have many friends on both sides of all sorts of political divides and I would never expect them to hide that.
    On the morning after the vote like a lot of people I was completely depressed. Less that we would no longer be a member of the EU (though that was significant) but in the knowledge that in the country I called home 52% were racist /Faragists and I never knew.
    What a prat....not you Roger, but the other one.
    I couldn't have friends who voted leave... NFW.....I just wouldn't want to mix with that kind of blinkered, narrow minded, bigoted person. They are not characteristics that induce me to friendship. After all that vote has caused me to move country, caused my wife immeasurable anxiety and grief and her parents too, and genuinely makes me worried for the prosperity of our country which I believe will be hit a lot harder than any socialist revival under Corbyn ever could. At least an attempt at socialist redistribution would be based on good intentions to help the disadvantaged. The basis of the leave vote was purely achieved by exploiting mean spirited nationalism and xenophobia.

    I really do pity the pathetic, nationalist creatures that pervade this site..the Faragists, or old pbCOM Tories, blinkered in their irrational ideology that is utterly corrosive and damaging. I couldn't be friends with them, NFW...I wouldn't want to share a beer with them. Nope.
    Again,says a guy who thought Norwich was to white and when had the chance to move back here,didn't take the opportunity of moving to a multicultural /racial city but chose whiteness -lol
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 1,815
    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    OchEye said:

    Just found this on The Reg concerning Rudd, and, like this mighty organ, it is the comments which are even more interesting : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/03/amber_rudd_still_does_not_understand_encryption/

    LOL, she really doesn’t understand encryption at all - she clearly thinks it’s something that only terrorists and criminals are using, rather than a massive enabler of online commerce and messaging. She does seem to seriously think that legislation can ban mathematics and computing power.

    Some brilliant comments under that article from the tech community, who have of course been saying the same to several Home Secretaries over the years.
    What Rudd wants is the for the service providers to "backdoor" their own apps and services, so that the government can avoid mandating a backdoor or trying to regulate encryption. Which would look bad, and ultimately be ineffective.

    The real problem is that if the likes of WhatsApp add some sort of capability to fetch retained messages from a device for the UK government, so that technically the message transport is still encrypted from end-to-end, they are likely to have to do something similar for other governments, or else. Indeed China is currently interfering with the use of WhatsApp as it shares similar views to our government about such services..

    So the end point of the government's brilliant idea is likely to be a severe weakening of the security of messaging services, with them riddled with "lawful access" capabilities for governments. Bad guys will use non-compliant apps and services, and where necessary tunnel through the compliant services. That almost certainly happens today unless the bad guys are particularly dim.
    Of course, there are no perfect solutions. Foreign governments will do what they want - we can't stop them and bad actors will implement works arounds. However, the security services view will be that implementing this will reduce their workload, speed up their reaction time and allow them to identify those people who believe their communications are dodgy enough to require some form of work around even if they can't immediately read it.



    Reducing this to some sort of 'lol Rudd doesn't understand encryption' argument is just juvenile.
  • Any probability May will announce her resignation today? (Or set a date to leave?) Time to let some new blood take charge.

    Not a chance - she will take us to March 2019
  • NonreglaNonregla Posts: 35



    True -- though any voter with a couple of white vans out front is probably not a mere worker but a thrusting entrepreneur who ought to be of interest to the Conservative Party -- and would have been in the Thatcher/Tebbit era.

    They aren't the main contingent in the UKIP vote that went back to Labour. My impression is that many of them do vote Tory and have done for years, since, as you say, the Thatcher-Tebbit era, even if local leaders wouldn't want them coming to party dos and eating peas off their knives, etc. Look for "Help for Heroes" stickers on those vans.

  • Two RAF typhoon fighter jets escort a Ryanair jet into Luton

    Stansted not Luton
  • NonreglaNonregla Posts: 35
    edited October 4

    Any probability May will announce her resignation today? (Or set a date to leave?) Time to let some new blood take charge.

    Not a chance - she will take us to March 2019
    What's the scenario? Exit from the EU in that month is highly unlikely, so she'll fall then or what?

    Personally I doubt she'll make it to then.
  • eekeek Posts: 1,884
    edited October 4
    JonathanD said:

    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    OchEye said:

    Just found this on The Reg concerning Rudd, and, like this mighty organ, it is the comments which are even more interesting : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/03/amber_rudd_still_does_not_understand_encryption/

    LOL, she really doesn’t understand encryption at all - she clearly thinks it’s something that only terrorists and criminals are using, rather than a massive enabler of online commerce and messaging. She does seem to seriously think that legislation can ban mathematics and computing power.

    Some brilliant comments under that article from the tech community, who have of course been saying the same to several Home Secretaries over the years.
    What Rudd wants is the for the service providers to "backdoor" their own apps and services, so that the government can avoid mandating a backdoor or trying to regulate encryption. Which would look bad, and ultimately be ineffective.

    The real problem is that if the likes of WhatsApp add some sort of capability to fetch retained messages from a device for the UK government, so that technically the message transport is still encrypted from end-to-end, they are likely to have to do something similar for other governments, or else. Indeed China is currently interfering with the use of WhatsApp as it shares similar views to our government about such services..

    So the end point of the government's brilliant idea is likely to be a severe weakening of the security of messaging services, with them riddled with "lawful access" capabilities for governments. Bad guys will use non-compliant apps and services, and where necessary tunnel through the compliant services. That almost certainly happens today unless the bad guys are particularly dim.
    Of course, there are no perfect solutions. Foreign governments will do what they want - we can't stop them and bad actors will implement works arounds. However, the security services view will be that implementing this will reduce their workload, speed up their reaction time and allow them to identify those people who believe their communications are dodgy enough to require some form of work around even if they can't immediately read it.



    Reducing this to some sort of 'lol Rudd doesn't understand encryption' argument is just juvenile.
    And anyone who wants to keep things private will move to another product that doesn't have a backdoor.

    Rudd my not understand encryption but based on the comments above I also don't think she can logically work through cause and effect and identify likely consequences of decisions...

    Once the encryption genie left his bottle you can't go backwards...
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 5,199
    JonathanD said:

    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    OchEye said:

    Just found this on The Reg concerning Rudd, and, like this mighty organ, it is the comments which are even more interesting : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/03/amber_rudd_still_does_not_understand_encryption/

    LOL, she really doesn’t understand encryption at all - she clearly thinks it’s something that only terrorists and criminals are using, rather than a massive enabler of online commerce and messaging. She does seem to seriously think that legislation can ban mathematics and computing power.

    Some brilliant comments under that article from the tech community, who have of course been saying the same to several Home Secretaries over the years.
    What Rudd wants is the for the service providers to "backdoor" their own apps and services, so that the government can avoid mandating a backdoor or trying to regulate encryption. Which would look bad, and ultimately be ineffective.

    The real problem is that if the likes of WhatsApp add some sort of capability to fetch retained messages from a device for the UK government, so that technically the message transport is still encrypted from end-to-end, they are likely to have to do something similar for other governments, or else. Indeed China is currently interfering with the use of WhatsApp as it shares similar views to our government about such services..

    So the end point of the government's brilliant idea is likely to be a severe weakening of the security of messaging services, with them riddled with "lawful access" capabilities for governments. Bad guys will use non-compliant apps and services, and where necessary tunnel through the compliant services. That almost certainly happens today unless the bad guys are particularly dim.
    Of course, there are no perfect solutions. Foreign governments will do what they want - we can't stop them and bad actors will implement works arounds. However, the security services view will be that implementing this will reduce their workload, speed up their reaction time and allow them to identify those people who believe their communications are dodgy enough to require some form of work around even if they can't immediately read it.



    Reducing this to some sort of 'lol Rudd doesn't understand encryption' argument is just juvenile.
    Maybe there's an alternative - maybe she (and you) understand encryption but have decided to do stupid things which will be counter productive?
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 678
    With what I remember of the Rochester flag incident, it wasn't the initial tweet that was the problem - it was the crass and tin-eared response she made when challenged about it, that really did for her. I think I was on PB that evening when news of her resignation broke, and there was a wide reaction of bemusement that something that should have been daft and trivial had escalated so quickly.

    She's not always my cup of tea, but I'd fancy her chances against the downbeat Tories at the moment.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 13,797

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    I think she is nailed on. As long as she stays away from the St George flags.

    A lady who finds the flag of her own nation bemusing.
    It was Guido's spin on the Rochester Tweet rather than the Tweet itself that caused the problem. And if Tories think this from 2014 is a political problem shows how out of touch with reality they are.

    This kneejerk reaction is pathetic.
    That it was just "Guido's spin" is, frankly, nonsense. Her subsequent explanation was deeply unconvincing and there were even members of the Labour shadow cabinet who were visibly embarrassed.

    And dont think this doesnt continue to play against Labour. It is just this sort of attitude that lost parts of the North and the Midlands for them in June..
    Yes, it’s the party of the working man commenting on how horrible it is that England football fans might display flags during the World Cup.

    We’re seeing the same in the UK and the US, that the party that used to support the working man is being taken over by the “liberal” middle classes who find their own traditional voters to be, umm, how to say, deplorable.
    True -- though any voter with a couple of white vans out front is probably not a mere worker but a thrusting entrepreneur who ought to be of interest to the Conservative Party -- and would have been in the Thatcher/Tebbit era.
    They’re certainly of interest to the Conservative Party, who saw their vote increase among the C2 group at the last election as Labour decided to be the party of the revolutionary middle classes.
  • Nonregla said:

    Any probability May will announce her resignation today? (Or set a date to leave?) Time to let some new blood take charge.

    Not a chance - she will take us to March 2019
    What's the scenario? Exit from the EU in that month is highly unlikely, so she'll fall then or what?

    Personally I doubt she'll make it to then.
    Probably late 2019 or early 2020. She is not going anywhere before then
This discussion has been closed.