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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Review : November 17th 2017

SystemSystem Posts: 3,967
edited November 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Review : November 17th 2017

Kirkley on Waveney (Lab defence) Result: Con 217 (28% +7% on last time), Lab 374 (48% +12% on last time), Lib Dem 84 (11% no candidate last time), UKIP 78 (10% -10% on last time), Green 30 (4% -5% on last time) (No Independent candidate this time -15%) Labour HOLD with a majority of 157 (20%) on a swing of 2.5% from Con to Lab

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Comments

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 18,176
    edited November 2017
    Thirst.

    Conservatives not doing as badly as might be feared...
  • Oxford college introduces compulsory classes on 'cultural appropriation' for students

    Magdalen College will run the mandatory workshops for freshers starting from next year, where they will be taught about racism, institutional racism, cultural appropriation and implicit bias.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/11/17/oxford-college-introduces-compulsory-classeson-cultural-appropriation/

    Sigh....
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 844

    Oxford college introduces compulsory classes on 'cultural appropriation' for students

    Magdalen College will run the mandatory workshops for freshers starting from next year, where they will be taught about racism, institutional racism, cultural appropriation and implicit bias.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/11/17/oxford-college-introduces-compulsory-classeson-cultural-appropriation/

    Sigh....

    Can people sold a pup ask for their money back? I would.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 15,939
    FPT

    New Thread...so we can carry on the same argument as every other thread for the past year.

    So... Apple or Android?
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 487
    Scott_P said:
    Never mind the European transnational agencies that have to leave post Brexit. No commercial company (whether in manufacturing or services) in its right mind will choose a UK base for its European operations post Brexit.

    As for Ireland, there are only 2 possible solutions post 29/3/19 if the UK leaves the SM/CU - a hard border across Ulster or in the Irish Sea, whoever retains responsibility for administering the 6 counties. Until there is clarity on this key issue, there should be no negotiations about any future possible trade deal between the EU and the UK.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 844

    FPT

    New Thread...so we can carry on the same argument as every other thread for the past year.

    So... Apple or Android?
    Still disappointed Google's Nexus 6 didn't look anything like Sean Young...
  • FPT

    New Thread...so we can carry on the same argument as every other thread for the past year.

    So... Apple or Android?
    I was more thinking...Radiohead the most overrated live act....yea or nay.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 19,519
    daodao said:

    Scott_P said:
    Never mind the European transnational agencies that have to leave post Brexit. No commercial company (whether in manufacturing or services) in its right mind will choose a UK base for its European operations post Brexit.

    As for Ireland, there are only 2 possible solutions post 29/3/19 if the UK leaves the SM/CU - a hard border across Ulster or in the Irish Sea, whoever retains responsibility for administering the 6 counties. Until there is clarity on this key issue, there should be no negotiations about any future possible trade deal between the EU and the UK.
    Wrong way around.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 6,648
    Excellent piece by Jonathan Turley in The Hill on the Franken and Moore cases, and the very limited powers of Congress to handle them appropriately. I particularly liked this line:

    "a congressional ethics investigation ... is the equivalent to volunteering to be chased by a wild pack of golden retriever puppies. They are likely to catch you but hardly likely to devour you."

    His views on Moore's right to serve should he be elected are also interesting.

    http://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/360922-roy-moore-and-al-franken-are-why-congress-needs-new-ethics-rules
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 9,952
    daodao said:

    Scott_P said:
    Never mind the European transnational agencies that have to leave post Brexit. No commercial company (whether in manufacturing or services) in its right mind will choose a UK base for its European operations post Brexit.

    As for Ireland, there are only 2 possible solutions post 29/3/19 if the UK leaves the SM/CU - a hard border across Ulster or in the Irish Sea, whoever retains responsibility for administering the 6 counties. Until there is clarity on this key issue, there should be no negotiations about any future possible trade deal between the EU and the UK.
    Could be a disaster for the EMA, and consequently for public health across the EU. And Britain.
    None (or almost none) of the staff want to go there.

    It’s the old story isn’t it. Disaster; never mind, we’ve got blue passports!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942

    FPT

    New Thread...so we can carry on the same argument as every other thread for the past year.

    So... Apple or Android?
    Pineapple or no pineapple?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942
    daodao said:

    Scott_P said:
    Never mind the European transnational agencies that have to leave post Brexit. No commercial company (whether in manufacturing or services) in its right mind will choose a UK base for its European operations post Brexit.

    As for Ireland, there are only 2 possible solutions post 29/3/19 if the UK leaves the SM/CU - a hard border across Ulster or in the Irish Sea, whoever retains responsibility for administering the 6 counties. Until there is clarity on this key issue, there should be no negotiations about any future possible trade deal between the EU and the UK.
    Surely the border hinges on what trade deal is made? It’s absurd to think they are utterly separate matters.
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 487
    Sean_F said:

    daodao said:

    Scott_P said:
    Never mind the European transnational agencies that have to leave post Brexit. No commercial company (whether in manufacturing or services) in its right mind will choose a UK base for its European operations post Brexit.

    As for Ireland, there are only 2 possible solutions post 29/3/19 if the UK leaves the SM/CU - a hard border across Ulster or in the Irish Sea, whoever retains responsibility for administering the 6 counties. Until there is clarity on this key issue, there should be no negotiations about any future possible trade deal between the EU and the UK.
    Wrong way around.
    I don't understand your comment.

    Unless the UK chooses to remain in the SM/CU, in which case there is no need for hard border, there has to be one, whether or not there is eventually some sort of trading deal in addition to WTO arrangements. There must be clarity about the Irish border arrangements first.
  • Scott_P said:
    I saw the planned home for the EMA in Milan last week when I was there. Just around the corner from the Duomo. I suspect the EMA staff won't be so pleased if Bratislava gets the nod in the carve up.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942
    daodao said:

    Sean_F said:

    daodao said:

    Scott_P said:
    Never mind the European transnational agencies that have to leave post Brexit. No commercial company (whether in manufacturing or services) in its right mind will choose a UK base for its European operations post Brexit.

    As for Ireland, there are only 2 possible solutions post 29/3/19 if the UK leaves the SM/CU - a hard border across Ulster or in the Irish Sea, whoever retains responsibility for administering the 6 counties. Until there is clarity on this key issue, there should be no negotiations about any future possible trade deal between the EU and the UK.
    Wrong way around.
    I don't understand your comment.

    Unless the UK chooses to remain in the SM/CU, in which case there is no need for hard border, there has to be one, whether or not there is eventually some sort of trading deal in addition to WTO arrangements. There must be clarity about the Irish border arrangements first.
    Clarity will come when we find out what the future trading relationship will be.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,044
    Whaplode and Holbeach St. John’s the clear winner in that list, though honourable mentions for Staining and Weeton and Red Hall and Lingfield
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 42,097
    DVLA Thursday, ESA Friday.
    What screw up will Saturday bring ?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 10,714
    edited November 2017
    daodao said:

    Sean_F said:

    daodao said:

    Scott_P said:
    Never mind the European transnational agencies that have to leave post Brexit. No commercial company (whether in manufacturing or services) in its right mind will choose a UK base for its European operations post Brexit.

    As for Ireland, there are only 2 possible solutions post 29/3/19 if the UK leaves the SM/CU - a hard border across Ulster or in the Irish Sea, whoever retains responsibility for administering the 6 counties. Until there is clarity on this key issue, there should be no negotiations about any future possible trade deal between the EU and the UK.
    Wrong way around.
    I don't understand your comment.

    Unless the UK chooses to remain in the SM/CU, in which case there is no need for hard border, there has to be one, whether or not there is eventually some sort of trading deal in addition to WTO arrangements. There must be clarity about the Irish border arrangements first.
    The DUP on Sky this evening rejected the Irish PM's ascertions and will not agree to staying in the single market or customs union. Also they accused the EU of using Ireland

    As I have said the universal media broadside tonight on how we have to bow to the EU demands will harden the Brexit vote in favour and no matter the consequences.

    The EU and those in the UK working with them need to realise the Country will reject their lack of negotiation as we rapidly head to the majority in the UK backing a hard Brexit no matter the mutual chaos caused
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 5,400
    edited November 2017
    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942
    FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    I doubt it has ever been as low as 4%:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland#Public_opinion
  • Chris Coleman has left his job with Wales to take over at Championship club Sunderland.
  • FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    It strikes me that this is the perfect long term solution to the issue of Northern Ireland. The only justification that the UK could ever have for retaining Northern Ireland was that this was the will of the majority of the population there. As and when demographics change that justification will no longer exist and the time will be right to ask the population whether they wish to be British or Irish by nationality.
  • FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 487
    edited November 2017

    FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    It strikes me that this is the perfect long term solution to the issue of Northern Ireland. The only justification that the UK could ever have for retaining Northern Ireland was that this was the will of the majority of the population there. As and when demographics change that justification will no longer exist and the time will be right to ask the population whether they wish to be British or Irish by nationality.
    I agree. In the meantime if there has to be hard border between the EU and GB it should be in the Irish Sea (and La Manche).
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 7,510

    FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    It strikes me that this is the perfect long term solution to the issue of Northern Ireland. The only justification that the UK could ever have for retaining Northern Ireland was that this was the will of the majority of the population there. As and when demographics change that justification will no longer exist and the time will be right to ask the population whether they wish to be British or Irish by nationality.
    Agreed. I doubt, however, that Republic would want them.
  • FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    You've misread that 4% in 2013 poll. That is NOT what it says.
  • daodao said:

    FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    It strikes me that this is the perfect long term solution to the issue of Northern Ireland. The only justification that the UK could ever have for retaining Northern Ireland was that this was the will of the majority of the population there. As and when demographics change that justification will no longer exist and the time will be right to ask the population whether they wish to be British or Irish by nationality.
    I agree. In the meantime if there has to be hard border between the EU and GB it should be in the Irish Sea (and La Manche).
    As I said both countries should just say no.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942

    FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    You've misread that 4% in 2013 poll. That is NOT what it says.
    Oh dear....
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 5,400
    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    I doubt it has ever been as low as 4%:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland#Public_opinion
    It was the same polling company. Although the 2013 poll offered the option of joining Ireland 20 years later that 22% went for. There is no doubt Brexit has boosted Irish re-unification. A further 10% of Remain (in the UK) voters would switch to Leave in the case of Hard Brexit, while 10% of Leave (to join Ireland) voters would switch to Remain if Brexit were abandoned.
  • Report via the Express that the air traffic control at the airport the plane and helicopter took off from before their mid air collision was closed due to staff shortages.

  • daodao said:

    FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    It strikes me that this is the perfect long term solution to the issue of Northern Ireland. The only justification that the UK could ever have for retaining Northern Ireland was that this was the will of the majority of the population there. As and when demographics change that justification will no longer exist and the time will be right to ask the population whether they wish to be British or Irish by nationality.
    I agree. In the meantime if there has to be hard border between the EU and GB it should be in the Irish Sea (and La Manche).
    As I said both countries should just say no.
    The DUP rejected the idiotic idea of the Irish sea border comprehensively tonight on Sky news
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942
    FF43 said:

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    I doubt it has ever been as low as 4%:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland#Public_opinion
    It was the same polling company. Although the 2013 poll offered the option of joining Ireland 20 years later that 22% went for. There is no doubt Brexit has boosted Irish re-unification. A further 10% of Remain (in the UK) voters would switch to Leave in the case of Hard Brexit, while 10% of Leave (to join Ireland) voters would switch to Remain if Brexit were abandoned.
    A couple of points higher than 2006, so not all that unusual.
  • One hopes that the rot has stopped.

    PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 15,939

    FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.
    This is nothing but absurd gaslighting. If the UK insists on taking Northern Ireland out of the single market and customs union it would be the UK forcing the issue.
  • FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.
    I wonder how EIRE will enjoy the EU dictating its corporation tax rates once Brexit is over.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 1,487

    FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.
    This is nothing but absurd gaslighting. If the UK insists on taking Northern Ireland out of the single market and customs union it would be the UK forcing the issue.
    Northern Ireland is part of the UK. We are not 'taking' them out; the country of which they are part has decided to leave. I know you are hoping that the union breaks just to be proved right, but it's not going to happen.
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 487

    FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.
    If the UK insists on taking Northern Ireland out of the single market and customs union it would be the UK forcing the issue.
    Exactly.
  • FF43 said:

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    I doubt it has ever been as low as 4%:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland#Public_opinion
    It was the same polling company. Although the 2013 poll offered the option of joining Ireland 20 years later that 22% went for. There is no doubt Brexit has boosted Irish re-unification. A further 10% of Remain (in the UK) voters would switch to Leave in the case of Hard Brexit, while 10% of Leave (to join Ireland) voters would switch to Remain if Brexit were abandoned.
    I don't think polling on Irish reunification is informative until after Brexit has taken place.

    Right now, i suspect a subset of it is a proxy for that fight.
  • FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.
    This is nothing but absurd gaslighting. If the UK insists on taking Northern Ireland out of the single market and customs union it would be the UK forcing the issue.
    I think the DUP will have a big say on this - they are accusing the EU of using the Irish and are implacably opposed to any border between mainland UK and Northern Ireland
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 4,521
    RobD said:

    FPT

    New Thread...so we can carry on the same argument as every other thread for the past year.

    So... Apple or Android?
    Pineapple or no pineapple?
    Star Trek: Discovery versus The Orville... :)
  • One hopes that the rot has stopped.

    PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

    I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

    If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 15,939

    FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.
    This is nothing but absurd gaslighting. If the UK insists on taking Northern Ireland out of the single market and customs union it would be the UK forcing the issue.
    I think the DUP will have a big say on this - they are accusing the EU of using the Irish and are implacably opposed to any border between mainland UK and Northern Ireland
    Until Arlene Foster says something I would ignore the "my dad's bigger than your dad" style interventions from their MPs.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 4,521

    daodao said:

    FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    It strikes me that this is the perfect long term solution to the issue of Northern Ireland. The only justification that the UK could ever have for retaining Northern Ireland was that this was the will of the majority of the population there. As and when demographics change that justification will no longer exist and the time will be right to ask the population whether they wish to be British or Irish by nationality.
    I agree. In the meantime if there has to be hard border between the EU and GB it should be in the Irish Sea (and La Manche).
    As I said both countries should just say no.
    The DUP rejected the idiotic idea of the Irish sea border comprehensively tonight on Sky news
    Good. Let us hope this bloody stupid stupid stupid GB/NI hard border idea dies like a shithouse rat. In great pain. On acid. Twice.

    I may not have expressed that intensely enough.
  • FPT:

    Sean_F said:

    This is all a catch 22. We can't work out a solution to the Irish Border question, until we know what our trading relationship with the EU will be.

    The options don't depend on the precise detail but on the broad category of relationship we want. In the single market and customs union, there no border problem either between Ireland and NI, or NI and GB.
    Except that the single market and customs union have already been ruled out.

    In the single market and customs union but out of the EU is the worst of all worlds, we would have no right to do trade deals, or change domestic rules to suit us and would be required to adopt all EU laws without any say in writing them. Why would anyone in their sane mind want that?

    So, time to come up with a practical proposal for how the Irish border would work under the trade deal that we want. Of course, the problem is that the government does not know what trade deal it wants.

    It'd be very presumptive for us at this stage to say "this will be our trade deal, therefore this is the Irish solution". The EU might just have a thing or two to say about what they will or will not give us as part of the trade deal therefore we need to negotiate the trade deal with the EU.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 4,521

    FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.
    Perhaps if the UK government were willing to put such a concept in writing...?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 20,643
    edited November 2017

    Oxford college introduces compulsory classes on 'cultural appropriation' for students

    Magdalen College will run the mandatory workshops for freshers starting from next year, where they will be taught about racism, institutional racism, cultural appropriation and implicit bias.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/11/17/oxford-college-introduces-compulsory-classeson-cultural-appropriation/

    Sigh....

    Ridiculous.
  • FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.
    This is nothing but absurd gaslighting. If the UK insists on taking Northern Ireland out of the single market and customs union it would be the UK forcing the issue.
    I think the DUP will have a big say on this - they are accusing the EU of using the Irish and are implacably opposed to any border between mainland UK and Northern Ireland
    Until Arlene Foster says something I would ignore the "my dad's bigger than your dad" style interventions from their MPs.
    I really worry for your sanity - you are an obsessive oblivious to anything that may disturb your vision of the perfect and wonderful EU that everyone has to worship with deference and respect
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 12,273
    edited November 2017
    daodao said:

    FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    It strikes me that this is the perfect long term solution to the issue of Northern Ireland. The only justification that the UK could ever have for retaining Northern Ireland was that this was the will of the majority of the population there. As and when demographics change that justification will no longer exist and the time will be right to ask the population whether they wish to be British or Irish by nationality.
    I agree. In the meantime if there has to be hard border between the EU and GB it should be in the Irish Sea (and La Manche).
    What country is this "GB" of which you speak? There is no WTO nation called GB, there is one called the United Kingdom (UK) and any trade deal we sign will be ratified at the WTO between the EU and UK.

    https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/countries_e/united_kingdom_e.htm
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 4,521

    One hopes that the rot has stopped.

    PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

    I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

    If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way
    Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help... :)
  • viewcode said:

    FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.
    Perhaps if the UK government were willing to put such a concept in writing...?
    It would be good if they would. Remember I agree with the Remainers and most of the Leavers as well in my scorn for how badly the Government appears to have handled Brexit so far and have no faith at all that they will make the right decisions on anything.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,781

    Chris Coleman has left his job with Wales to take over at Championship club Sunderland.

    He has?
    Sir Humphrey might say that was a courageous move...
  • FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    In answer to O'Tooles very reasonable point, the British and Irish should refùse to reinstate the border and challenge the EU to force the issue.
    This is nothing but absurd gaslighting. If the UK insists on taking Northern Ireland out of the single market and customs union it would be the UK forcing the issue.
    Nope. Your previous EU will be the only entity trying to reignite the Troubles by insisting on a hard border when every signatory to the Good Friday Agreement is saying they do not want it and will not enforce it.

  • daodaodaodao Posts: 487
    edited November 2017
    viewcode said:

    One hopes that the rot has stopped.

    PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

    I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

    If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way
    Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help... :)
    What offer? The Maybot and the 3 Brexiteer ministers appear to be at sixes and sevens and can't even be consistent with themselves, yet alone with one another. By contrast, senior EU officials and key EU27 national leaders are singing from the same hymn sheet. The UK has a nightmare government at present, in office but not in power.
  • viewcode said:

    One hopes that the rot has stopped.

    PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

    I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

    If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way
    Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help... :)
    Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

    The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 6,803
    dixiedean said:

    Chris Coleman has left his job with Wales to take over at Championship club Sunderland.

    He has?
    Sir Humphrey might say that was a courageous move...
    Or even Everton ;-)
  • daodao said:

    viewcode said:

    One hopes that the rot has stopped.

    PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

    I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

    If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way
    Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help... :)
    What offer? The Maybot and the 3 Brexiteer ministers appear to be at sixes and sevens and can't even be consistent with themselves, yet alone with one another. By contrast, senior EU officials and key EU27 national leaders are singing from the same hymn sheet. The UK has a nightmare government at present, in office but not in power.
    Not on recent evidence - poor showing by labour last night even losing a seat to the conservatives
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 19,519
    FF43 said:

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    I doubt it has ever been as low as 4%:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland#Public_opinion
    It was the same polling company. Although the 2013 poll offered the option of joining Ireland 20 years later that 22% went for. There is no doubt Brexit has boosted Irish re-unification. A further 10% of Remain (in the UK) voters would switch to Leave in the case of Hard Brexit, while 10% of Leave (to join Ireland) voters would switch to Remain if Brexit were abandoned.
    Currently, depending how the question is asked, 19-33% wish to join the Irish Republic, 55-64% wish to remain in the UK.
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 487

    viewcode said:

    One hopes that the rot has stopped.

    PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

    I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

    If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way
    Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help... :)
    Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

    The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily
    Use of the new Mersey road crossing (and the old bridge at Runcorn when it reopens) requires access to and use of the Internet, which therefore precludes its universal accessibility. That can't be done with a national frontier.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 15,939

    Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening.

    DExEU's 'track and trace' idea was listened to by industry with incredulity, before being dismissed by Davis as merely 'blue-sky thinking'.
  • daodao said:

    viewcode said:

    One hopes that the rot has stopped.

    PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

    I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

    If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way
    Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help... :)
    Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

    The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily
    Use of the new Mersey road crossing (and the old bridge at Runcorn when it reopens) requires access to and use of the Internet, which therefore precludes its universal accessibility. That can't be done with a national frontier.
    Well if you are excluding internet access from your argument you must be a real dinosaur

    And assume the vehicles will grind to a halt on these bridges if they are unable to access the internet

  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942
    daodao said:

    viewcode said:

    One hopes that the rot has stopped.

    PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

    I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

    If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way
    Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help... :)
    Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

    The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily
    Use of the new Mersey road crossing (and the old bridge at Runcorn when it reopens) requires access to and use of the Internet, which therefore precludes its universal accessibility. That can't be done with a national frontier.
    I wonder how many businesses that import/export to/from the UK don't have access to the internet?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 4,521

    viewcode said:

    One hopes that the rot has stopped.

    PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

    I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

    If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way
    Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help... :)
    Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

    The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily
    It's not a bad idea: remote monitoring, licensing and random inspections can serve as border security, albeit not as hard as I'd like. But regardless of how porous the border is or will be, at some point the UK has to stop generating ideas and start doing things: in this case employing people, redirecting funds, issuing requests for proposals and choosing firms to implement the tech. We have fifteen-sixteen months to get at least some of this done, and we're kind of running out of time.
  • Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening.

    DExEU's 'track and trace' idea was listened to by industry with incredulity, before being dismissed by Davis as merely 'blue-sky thinking'.
    Most of your posts are liistened to in 'incredulity'
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,781
    edited November 2017

    dixiedean said:

    Chris Coleman has left his job with Wales to take over at Championship club Sunderland.

    He has?
    Sir Humphrey might say that was a courageous move...
    Or even Everton ;-)
    Touche. However, our problems pale into insignificance compared to the shambles at SAFC.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 4,234
    daodao said:

    viewcode said:

    One hopes that the rot has stopped.

    PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

    I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

    If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way
    Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help... :)
    Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

    The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily
    Use of the new Mersey road crossing (and the old bridge at Runcorn when it reopens) requires access to and use of the Internet, which therefore precludes its universal accessibility. That can't be done with a national frontier.
    The sort of claim you don't even have to google to know it is wrong.

    And if you do google,

    "You can pay
    • online at www.merseyflow.co.uk (24 hours a day, 7 days a week)
    • by phone on 01928 878 878 (available 8am-8pm Monday-Friday and 9am-6pm Saturday,
    Sunday and bank holidays)
    • at merseyflow’s walk-in centre at Howard Court, Manor Park, Runcorn, WA7 1SJ between
    8am-8pm Monday-Friday and 9am-6pm Saturday, Sunday and bank holidays
    • at one of 10,000 Payzone outlets across the UK"
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 2,126

    Report via the Express that the air traffic control at the airport the plane and helicopter took off from before their mid air collision was closed due to staff shortages.

    Sounds irrelevant - I doubt they were in controlled airspace.
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    One hopes that the rot has stopped.

    PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

    I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

    If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way
    Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help... :)
    Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

    The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily
    It's not a bad idea: remote monitoring, licensing and random inspections can serve as border security, albeit not as hard as I'd like. But regardless of how porous the border is or will be, at some point the UK has to stop generating ideas and start doing things: in this case employing people, redirecting funds, issuing requests for proposals and choosing firms to implement the tech. We have fifteen-sixteen months to get at least some of this done, and we're kind of running out of time.
    I agree with you
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    One hopes that the rot has stopped.

    PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

    I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

    If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way
    Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help... :)
    Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

    The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily
    It's not a bad idea: remote monitoring, licensing and random inspections can serve as border security, albeit not as hard as I'd like. But regardless of how porous the border is or will be, at some point the UK has to stop generating ideas and start doing things: in this case employing people, redirecting funds, issuing requests for proposals and choosing firms to implement the tech. We have fifteen-sixteen months to get at least some of this done, and we're kind of running out of time.
    I agree with you
    Though a transistion deal will help
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 7,510
    “I didn’t vote because I didn’t think we should have been given the vote in the first place because as ordinary members of the public how are the fuck are you qualified to talk about the break-up of the oldest continent in the fucking world.

    That sort of talk would get him sent down from Oxford!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942
    Fact-checkers out in force today, I see :D
  • Report via the Express that the air traffic control at the airport the plane and helicopter took off from before their mid air collision was closed due to staff shortages.

    Sounds irrelevant - I doubt they were in controlled airspace.
    Probably - though I am no expert on the subject
  • daodao said:

    viewcode said:

    One hopes that the rot has stopped.

    PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

    I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

    If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way
    Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help... :)
    Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

    The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily
    Use of the new Mersey road crossing (and the old bridge at Runcorn when it reopens) requires access to and use of the Internet, which therefore precludes its universal accessibility. That can't be done with a national frontier.
    Of course it can, the internet is universally accessible now.

    A whole ton of government business can only be conducted online now including for national frontiers such as Advance Passenger Information (API).

    Last time I flew to Canada which I do regularly I was told I couldn't board the flight as they now require you to apply for Electronic Travel Authorisation (ETA) which again has to be one on their website. That is a new requirement that had not been required in the past but is now and as we were already at the airport ready to board we had to complete the form using PCs at Manchester Airport.
  • daodao said:

    viewcode said:

    One hopes that the rot has stopped.

    PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

    I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

    If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way
    Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help... :)
    Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

    The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily
    Use of the new Mersey road crossing (and the old bridge at Runcorn when it reopens) requires access to and use of the Internet, which therefore precludes its universal accessibility. That can't be done with a national frontier.
    Of course it can, the internet is universally accessible now.

    A whole ton of government business can only be conducted online now including for national frontiers such as Advance Passenger Information (API).

    Last time I flew to Canada which I do regularly I was told I couldn't board the flight as they now require you to apply for Electronic Travel Authorisation (ETA) which again has to be one on their website. That is a new requirement that had not been required in the past but is now and as we were already at the airport ready to board we had to complete the form using PCs at Manchester Airport.
    Yes I needed one to visit my son and his wife in Vancouver earlier this year and I did it on line at home in seconds
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 4,234
    tlg86 said:

    “I didn’t vote because I didn’t think we should have been given the vote in the first place because as ordinary members of the public how are the fuck are you qualified to talk about the break-up of the oldest continent in the fucking world.

    That sort of talk would get him sent down from Oxford!
    It would if he was reading geology. Does Europe predate Gondwana? Pangaia? Protolaurasia?
  • daodao said:

    viewcode said:

    One hopes that the rot has stopped.

    PMQs, the votes this week in the HoC, and the local election results (all, of course, unlinked) suggest the Conservatives aren't dead if they keep their heads.

    I do not think the EU are doing TM any harm by the hamfisted way they are trying to bully us iinto submission

    If she keeps making reasonable offers and they constantly turn her down then the UK electorate will turn against Brussels in a big way
    Have the UK made a reasonable offer regarding the Ire/NI border, and have they put it in writing? I think that might help... :)
    Any innovative ideas the UK have on the use of advanced technology they just put their fingers in their ears and say they are not listening. They do not want a deal so in the end we leave without one unfortunately

    The new Mersey crossing is a toll bridge with no toll booths. Everything is done on number plate recognition and thousands of commercial vehicles cross it daily
    Use of the new Mersey road crossing (and the old bridge at Runcorn when it reopens) requires access to and use of the Internet, which therefore precludes its universal accessibility. That can't be done with a national frontier.
    Of course it can, the internet is universally accessible now.

    A whole ton of government business can only be conducted online now including for national frontiers such as Advance Passenger Information (API).

    Last time I flew to Canada which I do regularly I was told I couldn't board the flight as they now require you to apply for Electronic Travel Authorisation (ETA) which again has to be one on their website. That is a new requirement that had not been required in the past but is now and as we were already at the airport ready to board we had to complete the form using PCs at Manchester Airport.
    Yes I needed one to visit my son and his wife in Vancouver earlier this year and I did it on line at home in seconds
    Indeed its not difficult to do just like most eForms that are becoming universal for government business including national frontiers now. daodao is acting like we're still painting on caves rather than in the 21st century.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 2,126

    Report via the Express that the air traffic control at the airport the plane and helicopter took off from before their mid air collision was closed due to staff shortages.

    Sounds irrelevant - I doubt they were in controlled airspace.
    Probably - though I am no expert on the subject
    Well it's quite a few years since I was flying but IIRC outside controlled airspace Visual Flight Rules apply - it's down to the pilots not Air Traffic Control. Someone with up to date knowledge will correct me if I am wrong.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942
    Scott_P said:
    I thought we were members with full rights and responsibilities until the moment we left?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 20,643
    edited November 2017
    Dreadlock Holiday by 10cc is on BBC4 at the moment. I wonder whether it would count as cultural appropriation these days, a bunch of white guys from Manchester singing reggae music with fake Jamaican accents.
  • Scott_P said:
    I wish them good luck with that one. The rebate is deducted at source, before we send the money to the EU.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,127
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:
    I thought we were members with full rights and responsibilities until the moment we left?

    How do they withhold it anyway - since we are the ones who don't pay it in the first place?

    Anyway... "Telegraph".

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 4,521
    Ishmael_Z said:

    tlg86 said:

    “I didn’t vote because I didn’t think we should have been given the vote in the first place because as ordinary members of the public how are the fuck are you qualified to talk about the break-up of the oldest continent in the fucking world.

    That sort of talk would get him sent down from Oxford!
    It would if he was reading geology. Does Europe predate Gondwana? Pangaia? Protolaurasia?
    If I was asked, and without googling, I'd say Australia. It's not as geologically active as the others and it has no great mountains nor (currently) active volcanos. That speaks to senescence not adolescence.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,532
    edited November 2017
    tlg86 said:

    “I didn’t vote because I didn’t think we should have been given the vote in the first place because as ordinary members of the public how are the fuck are you qualified to talk about the break-up of the oldest continent in the fucking world.

    That sort of talk would get him sent down from Oxford!
    Since when was the EU equivalent to the continent of Europe?

    Though much of what he says is quite sensible '“Then the people trying to get the vote overturned, they used to call that fascism. But they don’t call it fascism anymore because they’re fucking ‘right on’.
    “Personally, I don’t think we should have left the [European] Union because I feel right at the time of it happening, we turned our back on the French, who were going through some dark terror shit.
    “But it’s happened now. It was a legal vote. Fucking get it done and let’s move on.”

    Liam Gallagher also had plenty of common sense on Brexit too 'I love Europe. I guess the borders have got to be tightened but all that stuff about going ‘this is my country’, I don’t get that. 
    “We all live under one sky. I certainly don’t sit there and go ‘this is my f***in’ England, stay out’, but I think we should definitely keep an eye on who’s coming in and out of the country”.
    “That just makes common sense because you don’t want a load of loony c*** coming in. But good people should be allowed to move and groove wherever they want
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 19,519
    AndyJS said:

    Dreadlock Holiday by 10cc is on BBC4 at the moment. I wonder whether it would count as cultural appropriation these days, a bunch of white guys from Manchester singing reggae music with fake Jamaican accents.

    I've never understood why "cultural appropriation" is meant to be a bad thing. Different cultures borrow from each other.

    It' s just rich left wingers finding something to whinge about.
  • RobD said:

    Scott_P said:
    I thought we were members with full rights and responsibilities until the moment we left?

    How do they withhold it anyway - since we are the ones who don't pay it in the first place?

    Anyway... "Telegraph".

    Don't have a Telegraph subscription but it sounds like they're refusing to count it in the final bill which they're demanding we agree to within a fortnight or else they deny us trade talks until after March.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 6,803
    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    “I didn’t vote because I didn’t think we should have been given the vote in the first place because as ordinary members of the public how are the fuck are you qualified to talk about the break-up of the oldest continent in the fucking world.

    That sort of talk would get him sent down from Oxford!
    Since when was the EU equivalent to the continent of Europe?

    Though much of what he says is quite sensible '“Then the people trying to get the vote overturned, they used to call that fascism. But they don’t call it fascism anymore because they’re fucking ‘right on’.
    “Personally, I don’t think we should have left the [European] Union because I feel right at the time of it happening, we turned our back on the French, who were going through some dark terror shit.
    “But it’s happened now. It was a legal vote. Fucking get it done and let’s move on.”

    Liam Gallagher also had plenty of common sense on Brexit too 'I love Europe. I guess the borders have got to be tightened but all that stuff about going ‘this is my country’, I don’t get that. 
    “We all live under one sky. I certainly don’t sit there and go ‘this is my f***in’ England, stay out’, but I think we should definitely keep an eye on who’s coming in and out of the country”.
    “That just makes common sense because you don’t want a load of loony c*** coming in. But good people should be allowed to move and groove wherever they want
    Thought you like it - lol
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,127
    Sean_F said:

    AndyJS said:

    Dreadlock Holiday by 10cc is on BBC4 at the moment. I wonder whether it would count as cultural appropriation these days, a bunch of white guys from Manchester singing reggae music with fake Jamaican accents.

    I've never understood why "cultural appropriation" is meant to be a bad thing. Different cultures borrow from each other.

    It' s just rich left wingers finding something to whinge about.

    It's about power and control. If the left can say you are bad for doing X, and get support for it (either from the mob or your acquiescence), then they can control part of your life.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 25,664
    edited November 2017
    Another IOS 11 update...perhaps this one might fix all the bugs! iOS 11 the equivalent of a Radiohead live performance!
  • RobD said:

    Scott_P said:
    I thought we were members with full rights and responsibilities until the moment we left?

    How do they withhold it anyway - since we are the ones who don't pay it in the first place?

    Anyway... "Telegraph".

    Don't have a Telegraph subscription but it sounds like they're refusing to count it in the final bill which they're demanding we agree to within a fortnight or else they deny us trade talks until after March.
    They need to be given a take it or leave it offer and then we move on to adjust as necessary,.

    This cannot go on

    And I cancelled my Telegraph sub following that absurd front page
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,532
    edited November 2017
    FF43 said:

    Support in Northern Ireland for Irish reunification runs at 34% with 10% undecided, according to LucidTalk, up from 4% in 2013. 55% of those under 45 support Irish reunification. I guess as the Northern Irish become less religious and sectarian they identify more clearly as Irish.

    A very elegant essay by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times on the absurdity of reintroducing a border you have got rid of.

    I am not convinced the UK line of "it's very difficult so lets come up with a couple of platitudes and not bother to find a solution" is going to be enough.

    55% of Northern Irish want to remain in the UK on those figures, 34% to leave.

    Over 45s back staying in the UK by a comfortable majority of 60% to 29% with 10% undecided, under 45s are split almost evenly 44% to remain in the UK, 46% to join the Republic of Ireland and 9% undecided, so I don't think you got your figures quite right there.
    http://lucidtalk.co.uk/images/News/LTOct17TrackerPoll-GeneralReport.pdf
  • Sean_F said:

    AndyJS said:

    Dreadlock Holiday by 10cc is on BBC4 at the moment. I wonder whether it would count as cultural appropriation these days, a bunch of white guys from Manchester singing reggae music with fake Jamaican accents.

    I've never understood why "cultural appropriation" is meant to be a bad thing. Different cultures borrow from each other.

    It' s just rich left wingers finding something to whinge about.
    I think some of them are just looking for a hook onto which they can parade their anti-racism.
  • RobD said:

    Scott_P said:
    I thought we were members with full rights and responsibilities until the moment we left?
    I am rapidly approaching the "go f*ck yourselves, then" stage.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 2,126

    Another IOS 11 update...perhaps this one might fix all the bugs! iOS 11 the equivalent of a Radiohead live performance!

    Not had any issues at all with it myself - seemed as seemless as every other IOS update to me.
  • tlg86 said:

    “I didn’t vote because I didn’t think we should have been given the vote in the first place because as ordinary members of the public how are the fuck are you qualified to talk about the break-up of the oldest continent in the fucking world.

    That sort of talk would get him sent down from Oxford!
    Good job for Noel that wasn't on the ballot paper, then.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,207

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:
    I thought we were members with full rights and responsibilities until the moment we left?

    How do they withhold it anyway - since we are the ones who don't pay it in the first place?

    Anyway... "Telegraph".

    Don't have a Telegraph subscription but it sounds like they're refusing to count it in the final bill which they're demanding we agree to within a fortnight or else they deny us trade talks until after March.
    So presumably they are crediting us 36bn not 20bn for the next 2 years contributions?

    Or does it only work when it is in the EU's favour?
  • RobD said:

    Scott_P said:
    I thought we were members with full rights and responsibilities until the moment we left?
    I am rapidly approaching the "go f*ck yourselves, then" stage.
    I have been saying that all night and expect so is the Country
  • Sean_F said:

    AndyJS said:

    Dreadlock Holiday by 10cc is on BBC4 at the moment. I wonder whether it would count as cultural appropriation these days, a bunch of white guys from Manchester singing reggae music with fake Jamaican accents.

    I've never understood why "cultural appropriation" is meant to be a bad thing. Different cultures borrow from each other.

    It' s just rich left wingers finding something to whinge about.

    It's about power and control. If the left can say you are bad for doing X, and get support for it (either from the mob or your acquiescence), then they can control part of your life.

    Some on the Left go further: your rights and life are forfeit if you're a Tory.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 25,664
    edited November 2017

    Another IOS 11 update...perhaps this one might fix all the bugs! iOS 11 the equivalent of a Radiohead live performance!

    Not had any issues at all with it myself - seemed as seemless as every other IOS update to me.
    The problems have been widely reported and hence why pretty much weekly updates since ios 11 was released.
This discussion has been closed.