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SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited November 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The echoes of 2008? A cartoon first published in 2008 and it could apply to today’s situation

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  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 7,948


    Conservatives, managing to underperform the global financial crisis.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,459
    2nd, like McDonnell vs interviewers...
  • @Jonathan - isn't a lot of that horseshit, though?

    If you create lots of new entry level jobs in the £12-£17k bracket over 5-7 years, you're going to drag the average annual earnings down, even whilst unemployment drastically reduces.

    We wouldn't prefer them all on benefits, with a higher average earnings for the rest, would we?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 7,948

    @Jonathan - isn't a lot of that horseshit, though?

    If you create lots of new entry level jobs in the £12-£17k bracket over 5-7 years, you're going to drag the average annual earnings down, even whilst unemployment drastically reduces.

    We wouldn't prefer them all on benefits, with a higher average earnings for the rest, would we?

    It's all good, move along,, nothing to see here. Ten more glorious years. Tra la la la la.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,624
    Jonathan said:



    Conservatives, managing to underperform the global financial crisis.

    Not on unemployment where it is half the EU average in the UK
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 3,792
    edited November 2017

    @Jonathan - isn't a lot of that horseshit, though?

    If you create lots of new entry level jobs in the £12-£17k bracket over 5-7 years, you're going to drag the average annual earnings down, even whilst unemployment drastically reduces.

    We wouldn't prefer them all on benefits, with a higher average earnings for the rest, would we?

    We’re back to pre-crisis levels of unemployment. Actually a bit lower but basically there.
    But average wages are lower.

    So what we’ve done is swapped better paying jobs for poorer paying jobs.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 1,156

    @Jonathan - isn't a lot of that horseshit, though?

    If you create lots of new entry level jobs in the £12-£17k bracket over 5-7 years, you're going to drag the average annual earnings down, even whilst unemployment drastically reduces.

    We wouldn't prefer them all on benefits, with a higher average earnings for the rest, would we?

    No but we might ask why the economy is incapable of creating higher paid jobs and consider what we can do to change that.
  • rkrkrk said:

    @Jonathan - isn't a lot of that horseshit, though?

    If you create lots of new entry level jobs in the £12-£17k bracket over 5-7 years, you're going to drag the average annual earnings down, even whilst unemployment drastically reduces.

    We wouldn't prefer them all on benefits, with a higher average earnings for the rest, would we?

    We’re back to pre-crisis levels of unemployment. Actually a bit lower but basically there.
    But average wages are lower.

    So what we’ve done is swapped well paying jobs for poorer paying jobs.
    Unemployment at 4.3% or much higher levels as per the EU. There is the choice
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 6,354

    FF43 said:


    Indeed the year had been allocated. Nevertheless the programme no longer applies and cannot apply to the UK unless there's a new decision made to the effect by the European Council and European Parliament.

    I suppose thinking about it, it could be included in the A50 Withdrawal Agreement if we cough up the €50 billion and sort out Ireland etc. Perhaps the Eurocrats could have said that by default it wasn't happening but there might be a decision in 18 months time to allow it. What they can't do is allow the UK programme to proceed now.


    Why can't we just declare our own European City of Culture? Let the bids be decided by the UK.

    We'll still be part of Europe after we leave the EU.

    In my opinion the UK government should do that. The Department of Culture Media and Sport misled candidate cities into bidding and spending money on a programme they weren't eligible for.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 3,792

    rkrkrk said:

    @Jonathan - isn't a lot of that horseshit, though?

    If you create lots of new entry level jobs in the £12-£17k bracket over 5-7 years, you're going to drag the average annual earnings down, even whilst unemployment drastically reduces.

    We wouldn't prefer them all on benefits, with a higher average earnings for the rest, would we?

    We’re back to pre-crisis levels of unemployment. Actually a bit lower but basically there.
    But average wages are lower.

    So what we’ve done is swapped well paying jobs for poorer paying jobs.
    Unemployment at 4.3% or much higher levels as per the EU. There is the choice
    False dichotomy.
    As an aside, The EU’s response to the financial crisis has also been poor.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 3,792
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:


    Indeed the year had been allocated. Nevertheless the programme no longer applies and cannot apply to the UK unless there's a new decision made to the effect by the European Council and European Parliament.

    I suppose thinking about it, it could be included in the A50 Withdrawal Agreement if we cough up the €50 billion and sort out Ireland etc. Perhaps the Eurocrats could have said that by default it wasn't happening but there might be a decision in 18 months time to allow it. What they can't do is allow the UK programme to proceed now.


    Why can't we just declare our own European City of Culture? Let the bids be decided by the UK.

    We'll still be part of Europe after we leave the EU.

    In my opinion the UK government should do that. The Department of Culture Media and Sport misled candidate cities into bidding and spending money on a programme they weren't eligible for.
    Give it to Grimsby.
    The least we can do if they are expecting a bespoke deal just for their City/main industry.
  • This makes me count my blessings.

    I'm also glad I was raised by parents who view debt as the eighth deadliest sin.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 7,948
    Tory complacency is a thing. I think they have no idea what to do.
  • Indian doctors or Romanian pickpockets? Tough choice.

    (For the avoidance of doubt, l am not saying that all Romanians are pickpockets.)
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 252
    This is an important gesture by India. This gives the brexiteers the opportunity I'm sure they have been looking for to show their commitment to international trade and to prove they are not the racist scum guardianistas accuse them of being.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 6,354
    Interestingly, this at the UK's insistence, was one of the stumbling blocks to the EU signing a preferential trade agreement with India. There were however plenty of other issues, including India unilaterally rescinding a number of existing treaties.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,249
    Fenman said:

    This is an important gesture by India. This gives the brexiteers the opportunity I'm sure they have been looking for to show their commitment to international trade and to prove they are not the racist scum guardianistas accuse them of being.

    Take Back Control...

    ...by allowing India to dictate immigration policy.

    Yup, can't see any problem with the Brexiteers endorsing this
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 500

    This makes me count my blessings.

    I'm also glad I was raised by parents who view debt as the eighth deadliest sin.

    Me too. I am relieved that I can ride out Brexit with impunity, and have sorted my offspring as well, and sorted my finance.
    Are we at tipping point yet re Brexit?
    I am a remainer, and the self inflicted damage we are receiving will only grow. Yes I am old, a northerner, time to come out and declare.
  • Indian doctors or Romanian pickpockets? Tough choice.

    (For the avoidance of doubt, l am not saying that all Romanians are pickpockets.)
    ... or all Indians are doctors?
    So pretty pointless comment.
  • jayfdee said:

    This makes me count my blessings.

    I'm also glad I was raised by parents who view debt as the eighth deadliest sin.

    Me too. I am relieved that I can ride out Brexit with impunity, and have sorted my offspring as well, and sorted my finance.
    Are we at tipping point yet re Brexit?
    I am a remainer, and the self inflicted damage we are receiving will only grow. Yes I am old, a northerner, time to come out and declare.
    Not tipping point yet.

    Leavers knew there'd be job losses once Brexit happens but they still voted for it.

    I suspect tipping point will be a long post Brexit slump (and the rest of the EU is booming), people will think they know what the causation is.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 7,948

    jayfdee said:

    This makes me count my blessings.

    I'm also glad I was raised by parents who view debt as the eighth deadliest sin.

    Me too. I am relieved that I can ride out Brexit with impunity, and have sorted my offspring as well, and sorted my finance.
    Are we at tipping point yet re Brexit?
    I am a remainer, and the self inflicted damage we are receiving will only grow. Yes I am old, a northerner, time to come out and declare.
    Not tipping point yet.

    Leavers knew there'd be job losses once Brexit happens but they still voted for it.

    I suspect tipping point will be a long post Brexit slump (and the rest of the EU is booming), people will think they know what the causation is.
    And then what.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,624
    Jonathan said:

    Tory complacency is a thing. I think they have no idea what to do.

    As opposed to Labour complacency and the clueless McDonnell today
  • One if the most important decisions is to move away from directing all to Uni and promote vocational and on job training to cope with the huge number of civil engineering and house building developments we need over the coming years. You can put in billions into road, rail and house building but without the skills in these fields they will stay on the drawing boards for years

    And we need to bring in lots of workers under a new controlled immigration policy.

    It is absolutely essential to point young people to become the new builders, plumbers, joiners, electricians, etc of the future and many will not only earn much more than going to Uni and some willl build multi million pound businesses employing thousands. You do not have to be an accountant (or a lawyer) to succeed in business
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 7,948
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Tory complacency is a thing. I think they have no idea what to do.

    As opposed to Labour complacency and the clueless McDonnell today
    Tories need to clean up own mess. Develop a personal responsibility ethic.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 6,354

    jayfdee said:

    This makes me count my blessings.

    I'm also glad I was raised by parents who view debt as the eighth deadliest sin.

    Me too. I am relieved that I can ride out Brexit with impunity, and have sorted my offspring as well, and sorted my finance.
    Are we at tipping point yet re Brexit?
    I am a remainer, and the self inflicted damage we are receiving will only grow. Yes I am old, a northerner, time to come out and declare.
    Not tipping point yet.

    Leavers knew there'd be job losses once Brexit happens but they still voted for it.

    I suspect tipping point will be a long post Brexit slump (and the rest of the EU is booming), people will think they know what the causation is.
    I think sticking point rather than tipping point. Brexit is heading into the mud.

    (Probably. Hopefully. There is scope to do something REALLY dumb, like refuse to pay €50 billion and leave without a deal).
  • Jonathan said:

    jayfdee said:

    This makes me count my blessings.

    I'm also glad I was raised by parents who view debt as the eighth deadliest sin.

    Me too. I am relieved that I can ride out Brexit with impunity, and have sorted my offspring as well, and sorted my finance.
    Are we at tipping point yet re Brexit?
    I am a remainer, and the self inflicted damage we are receiving will only grow. Yes I am old, a northerner, time to come out and declare.
    Not tipping point yet.

    Leavers knew there'd be job losses once Brexit happens but they still voted for it.

    I suspect tipping point will be a long post Brexit slump (and the rest of the EU is booming), people will think they know what the causation is.
    And then what.
    the Campaign to REjoin the Eu Party or CREEP for short.

    Creep is also Radiohead's only decent song alongside Karma Police.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,624
    We have a choice whether to accept that FTA with India, we have no choice whether to accept free movement from the EU staying in the EU or single market. Blair did not even take the transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004.
  • Fenman said:

    This is an important gesture by India. This gives the brexiteers the opportunity I'm sure they have been looking for to show their commitment to international trade and to prove they are not the racist scum guardianistas accuse them of being.
    I think it has the possibility of being a great deal with benefits both ways
  • jayfdee said:

    This makes me count my blessings.

    I'm also glad I was raised by parents who view debt as the eighth deadliest sin.

    Me too. I am relieved that I can ride out Brexit with impunity, and have sorted my offspring as well, and sorted my finance.
    Are we at tipping point yet re Brexit?
    I am a remainer, and the self inflicted damage we are receiving will only grow. Yes I am old, a northerner, time to come out and declare.
    Perhaps you could detail this damage ?

    Does it include this:

    ' Growth in manufacturing output accelerated in the three months to November according to the latest monthly CBI Industrial Trends Survey.

    Order books also continued to fill up. Total orders were, by a small margin, the strongest since August 1988, while export order books were the joint highest in more than 20 years. '

    http://www.cbi.org.uk/news/manufacturing-orders-strongest-for-nearly-30-years/
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 7,948

    One if the most important decisions is to move away from directing all to Uni and promote vocational and on job training to cope with the huge number of civil engineering and house building developments we need over the coming years. You can put in billions into road, rail and house building but without the skills in these fields they will stay on the drawing boards for years

    And we need to bring in lots of workers under a new controlled immigration policy.

    It is absolutely essential to point young people to become the new builders, plumbers, joiners, electricians, etc of the future and many will not only earn much more than going to Uni and some willl build multi million pound businesses employing thousands. You do not have to be an accountant (or a lawyer) to succeed in business

    The rest of the world is competing for an edge in a high skill, high tech high wage economy. You're advocating a route to irrelevance and poverty . Why not advocate subsistence agriculture employing millions.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 7,948

    Jonathan said:

    jayfdee said:

    This makes me count my blessings.

    I'm also glad I was raised by parents who view debt as the eighth deadliest sin.

    Me too. I am relieved that I can ride out Brexit with impunity, and have sorted my offspring as well, and sorted my finance.
    Are we at tipping point yet re Brexit?
    I am a remainer, and the self inflicted damage we are receiving will only grow. Yes I am old, a northerner, time to come out and declare.
    Not tipping point yet.

    Leavers knew there'd be job losses once Brexit happens but they still voted for it.

    I suspect tipping point will be a long post Brexit slump (and the rest of the EU is booming), people will think they know what the causation is.
    And then what.
    the Campaign to REjoin the Eu Party or CREEP for short.

    Creep is also Radiohead's only decent song alongside Karma Police.
    There will be protests in Farage square stretching all the way down Gove way.
  • Jonathan said:

    One if the most important decisions is to move away from directing all to Uni and promote vocational and on job training to cope with the huge number of civil engineering and house building developments we need over the coming years. You can put in billions into road, rail and house building but without the skills in these fields they will stay on the drawing boards for years

    And we need to bring in lots of workers under a new controlled immigration policy.

    It is absolutely essential to point young people to become the new builders, plumbers, joiners, electricians, etc of the future and many will not only earn much more than going to Uni and some willl build multi million pound businesses employing thousands. You do not have to be an accountant (or a lawyer) to succeed in business

    The rest of the world is competing for an edge in a high skill, high tech high wage economy. You're advocating a route to irrelevance and poverty . Why not advocate subsistence agriculture employing millions.
    With respect that is rubbish
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,769
    FF43 said:

    jayfdee said:

    This makes me count my blessings.

    I'm also glad I was raised by parents who view debt as the eighth deadliest sin.

    Me too. I am relieved that I can ride out Brexit with impunity, and have sorted my offspring as well, and sorted my finance.
    Are we at tipping point yet re Brexit?
    I am a remainer, and the self inflicted damage we are receiving will only grow. Yes I am old, a northerner, time to come out and declare.
    Not tipping point yet.

    Leavers knew there'd be job losses once Brexit happens but they still voted for it.

    I suspect tipping point will be a long post Brexit slump (and the rest of the EU is booming), people will think they know what the causation is.
    I think sticking point rather than tipping point. Brexit is heading into the mud.

    (Probably. Hopefully. There is scope to do something REALLY dumb, like refuse to pay €50 billion and leave without a deal).
    I'd be interested in your take on what the SNP is thinking about Brexit strategy at the moment. My assumption has been they are waiting to see the lie of the land on Northern Ireland, and then if the principle of a differentiated approach is conceded, they can insert themselves right in the middle of phase two, if we ever get there.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 4,692
    I have just come across a photograph of Neville Chamberlain leaving the Treasury to present his April 1934 Budget. I was struck that he was wearing a Top Hat - and wondered when that tradition was abandoned.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,249
    Jonathan said:

    There will be protests in Farage square stretching all the way down Gove way.

    They can be dispersed with BoZo's water cannon...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,400
    3m additional jobs since 2010. Record employment. And this cartoon is relevant how, exactly?

    Last year, in part because of the NMW, the bottom deciles income grew more rapidly than the top. The same will almost certainly happen this year given the NMW is going up by 4.75%, well ahead of inflation and average wages.

    It’s not great but it could be worse.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 20,645
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:


    Indeed the year had been allocated. Nevertheless the programme no longer applies and cannot apply to the UK unless there's a new decision made to the effect by the European Council and European Parliament.

    I suppose thinking about it, it could be included in the A50 Withdrawal Agreement if we cough up the €50 billion and sort out Ireland etc. Perhaps the Eurocrats could have said that by default it wasn't happening but there might be a decision in 18 months time to allow it. What they can't do is allow the UK programme to proceed now.


    Why can't we just declare our own European City of Culture? Let the bids be decided by the UK.

    We'll still be part of Europe after we leave the EU.

    In my opinion the UK government should do that. The Department of Culture Media and Sport misled candidate cities into bidding and spending money on a programme they weren't eligible for.
    We've got more culture than a penicillin factory.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 6,354
    Jonathan said:

    One if the most important decisions is to move away from directing all to Uni and promote vocational and on job training to cope with the huge number of civil engineering and house building developments we need over the coming years. You can put in billions into road, rail and house building but without the skills in these fields they will stay on the drawing boards for years

    And we need to bring in lots of workers under a new controlled immigration policy.

    It is absolutely essential to point young people to become the new builders, plumbers, joiners, electricians, etc of the future and many will not only earn much more than going to Uni and some willl build multi million pound businesses employing thousands. You do not have to be an accountant (or a lawyer) to succeed in business

    The rest of the world is competing for an edge in a high skill, high tech high wage economy. You're advocating a route to irrelevance and poverty . Why not advocate subsistence agriculture employing millions.
    Yup. Value Add is the economy for us. That effectively means a deep and broad integration with the EU. Not an absolute requirement but in the absence of alternatives it's the logical necessity. And we will have to do it on the EU's terms.
  • jayfdee said:

    This makes me count my blessings.

    I'm also glad I was raised by parents who view debt as the eighth deadliest sin.

    Me too. I am relieved that I can ride out Brexit with impunity, and have sorted my offspring as well, and sorted my finance.
    Are we at tipping point yet re Brexit?
    I am a remainer, and the self inflicted damage we are receiving will only grow. Yes I am old, a northerner, time to come out and declare.
    Perhaps you could detail this damage ?

    Does it include this:

    ' Growth in manufacturing output accelerated in the three months to November according to the latest monthly CBI Industrial Trends Survey.

    Order books also continued to fill up. Total orders were, by a small margin, the strongest since August 1988, while export order books were the joint highest in more than 20 years. '

    http://www.cbi.org.uk/news/manufacturing-orders-strongest-for-nearly-30-years/
    We are at maximum capacity and my plant is awash with orders. This is the drop in the pound and the lack of a Brexit impact. At the same time as with other manufacturers we are investing little in new equipment and developing options to invest abroad so we can still supply our new export customers if it all goes pear shaped with Brexit


  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 7,948
    Scott_P said:

    Jonathan said:

    There will be protests in Farage square stretching all the way down Gove way.

    They can be dispersed with BoZo's water cannon...
    Not the only ones to feel the force Johnsons big hose. Lord Johnson of Brexitshire.
  • Scott_P said:

    Jonathan said:

    There will be protests in Farage square stretching all the way down Gove way.

    They can be dispersed with BoZo's water cannon...
    I am struggling not to channel my inner Finbarr Saunders.
  • DavidL said:

    3m additional jobs since 2010. Record employment. And this cartoon is relevant how, exactly?

    Last year, in part because of the NMW, the bottom deciles income grew more rapidly than the top. The same will almost certainly happen this year given the NMW is going up by 4.75%, well ahead of inflation and average wages.

    It’s not great but it could be worse.

    This is an outline of Marf’s thoughts.

  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,459
    justin124 said:

    I have just come across a photograph of Neville Chamberlain leaving the Treasury to present his April 1934 Budget. I was struck that he was wearing a Top Hat - and wondered when that tradition was abandoned.

    Probably around the same time that morals fell through the floor, what?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 6,354
    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:


    Indeed the year had been allocated. Nevertheless the programme no longer applies and cannot apply to the UK unless there's a new decision made to the effect by the European Council and European Parliament.

    I suppose thinking about it, it could be included in the A50 Withdrawal Agreement if we cough up the €50 billion and sort out Ireland etc. Perhaps the Eurocrats could have said that by default it wasn't happening but there might be a decision in 18 months time to allow it. What they can't do is allow the UK programme to proceed now.


    Why can't we just declare our own European City of Culture? Let the bids be decided by the UK.

    We'll still be part of Europe after we leave the EU.

    In my opinion the UK government should do that. The Department of Culture Media and Sport misled candidate cities into bidding and spending money on a programme they weren't eligible for.
    We've got more culture than a penicillin factory.
    In general I agree with you, but these cities bid in good faith on the advice of the DCMS, which was highly misleading.
  • DavidL said:

    3m additional jobs since 2010. Record employment. And this cartoon is relevant how, exactly?

    Last year, in part because of the NMW, the bottom deciles income grew more rapidly than the top. The same will almost certainly happen this year given the NMW is going up by 4.75%, well ahead of inflation and average wages.

    It’s not great but it could be worse.

    I was baffled by the supposed relevance as well.

    I think you made an important point about the link between productivity increases and pay increases.

    What we need now is for people to remember the importance of living within their means.

    These issues are linked.

    If people have to live within their means then to spend more they need to increase their means and that requires higher productivity.

    The addiction to the magic money tree provided another source of income but at the cost of a poorer future.
  • justin124 said:

    I have just come across a photograph of Neville Chamberlain leaving the Treasury to present his April 1934 Budget. I was struck that he was wearing a Top Hat - and wondered when that tradition was abandoned.

    A top hat would have gone well with Osborne's budget day half-mast trousers.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,417

    justin124 said:

    I have just come across a photograph of Neville Chamberlain leaving the Treasury to present his April 1934 Budget. I was struck that he was wearing a Top Hat - and wondered when that tradition was abandoned.

    A top hat would have gone well with Osborne's budget day half-mast trousers.
    A top hat would have gone well with Osborne
  • justin124 said:

    I have just come across a photograph of Neville Chamberlain leaving the Treasury to present his April 1934 Budget. I was struck that he was wearing a Top Hat - and wondered when that tradition was abandoned.

    Probably when people stopped wearing top hats.

    Chamberlain tended to dress in a rather formal, old-fashioned manner.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 4,692
    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    I have just come across a photograph of Neville Chamberlain leaving the Treasury to present his April 1934 Budget. I was struck that he was wearing a Top Hat - and wondered when that tradition was abandoned.

    Probably around the same time that morals fell through the floor, what?
    Possibly a little earlier than that - I don't think Stafford Cripps wore a Top Hat in the late 1940s though RA Butler may have restored the practice in the early to mid- 1950s. If a recent Chancellor had chosen to do that , I wonder whether it would have attracted comment.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 6,354

    FF43 said:

    jayfdee said:

    This makes me count my blessings.

    I'm also glad I was raised by parents who view debt as the eighth deadliest sin.

    Me too. I am relieved that I can ride out Brexit with impunity, and have sorted my offspring as well, and sorted my finance.
    Are we at tipping point yet re Brexit?
    I am a remainer, and the self inflicted damage we are receiving will only grow. Yes I am old, a northerner, time to come out and declare.
    Not tipping point yet.

    Leavers knew there'd be job losses once Brexit happens but they still voted for it.

    I suspect tipping point will be a long post Brexit slump (and the rest of the EU is booming), people will think they know what the causation is.
    I think sticking point rather than tipping point. Brexit is heading into the mud.

    (Probably. Hopefully. There is scope to do something REALLY dumb, like refuse to pay €50 billion and leave without a deal).
    I'd be interested in your take on what the SNP is thinking about Brexit strategy at the moment. My assumption has been they are waiting to see the lie of the land on Northern Ireland, and then if the principle of a differentiated approach is conceded, they can insert themselves right in the middle of phase two, if we ever get there.
    Good question. I think the SNP were burnt by the Westminster election where they thought they could push independence in response to an unwelcome Brexit. The EU is a second order issue in Scotland compared with independence, which is somewhat abated at the moment. My guess is the SNP are watching to see how it pans out. They will cause a fuss about decisions devolved from Brussels that stay in London and don't get passed to Edinburgh. If Northern Ireland does get special arrangements that will be interesting and could stir up things in Scotland. We have a border too.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,459
    justin124 said:

    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    I have just come across a photograph of Neville Chamberlain leaving the Treasury to present his April 1934 Budget. I was struck that he was wearing a Top Hat - and wondered when that tradition was abandoned.

    Probably around the same time that morals fell through the floor, what?
    Possibly a little earlier than that - I don't think Stafford Cripps wore a Top Hat in the late 1940s though RA Butler may have restored the practice in the early to mid- 1950s. If a recent Chancellor had chosen to do that , I wonder whether it would have attracted comment.
    Unspoofable.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 4,692

    justin124 said:

    I have just come across a photograph of Neville Chamberlain leaving the Treasury to present his April 1934 Budget. I was struck that he was wearing a Top Hat - and wondered when that tradition was abandoned.

    Probably when people stopped wearing top hats.

    Chamberlain tended to dress in a rather formal, old-fashioned manner.
    But Top Hats had pretty well disappeared from day to day use a fair bit earlier than 1934 - and I suspect Chamberlain continued to wear them as late as 1937 when presenting his last Budget.
  • DavidL said:

    3m additional jobs since 2010. Record employment. And this cartoon is relevant how, exactly?

    Last year, in part because of the NMW, the bottom deciles income grew more rapidly than the top. The same will almost certainly happen this year given the NMW is going up by 4.75%, well ahead of inflation and average wages.

    It’s not great but it could be worse.

    This is an outline of Marf’s thoughts.

    In the nine years since that cartoon the government borrowed over £1.1 trillion quid.

    We are now finally beginning to face up to reality and slowly rebalancing the economy into something sustainable.

    I find these changes refreshing if long overdue.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 4,692
    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    I have just come across a photograph of Neville Chamberlain leaving the Treasury to present his April 1934 Budget. I was struck that he was wearing a Top Hat - and wondered when that tradition was abandoned.

    Probably around the same time that morals fell through the floor, what?
    Possibly a little earlier than that - I don't think Stafford Cripps wore a Top Hat in the late 1940s though RA Butler may have restored the practice in the early to mid- 1950s. If a recent Chancellor had chosen to do that , I wonder whether it would have attracted comment.
    Unspoofable.
    I suppose that at the end of the day it would be a matter for the individual in that some people like wearing hats and are drawn to formality etc.I doubt that it would be seen as anything more than mildly eccentric - with perhaps a touch of exhibitionism.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 2,639
    Scott_P said:
    We can do our own UK capital of culture, we'll just need a few thousand more civil servants and to shake the magic money tree again.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 2,993
    Scott_P said:
    Not good for Leeds as they have already spent money on the application process.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 6,354

    jayfdee said:

    This makes me count my blessings.

    I'm also glad I was raised by parents who view debt as the eighth deadliest sin.

    Me too. I am relieved that I can ride out Brexit with impunity, and have sorted my offspring as well, and sorted my finance.
    Are we at tipping point yet re Brexit?
    I am a remainer, and the self inflicted damage we are receiving will only grow. Yes I am old, a northerner, time to come out and declare.
    Perhaps you could detail this damage ?

    Does it include this:

    ' Growth in manufacturing output accelerated in the three months to November according to the latest monthly CBI Industrial Trends Survey.

    Order books also continued to fill up. Total orders were, by a small margin, the strongest since August 1988, while export order books were the joint highest in more than 20 years. '

    http://www.cbi.org.uk/news/manufacturing-orders-strongest-for-nearly-30-years/
    We are at maximum capacity and my plant is awash with orders. This is the drop in the pound and the lack of a Brexit impact. At the same time as with other manufacturers we are investing little in new equipment and developing options to invest abroad so we can still supply our new export customers if it all goes pear shaped with Brexit


    There is a lot of uncertainty. Assume an Article 50 deal is signed as proposed with a two year transition on current arrangements leading to a limited preferential trade agreement which eliminated tariffs industrial goods with rules of origin thresholds. Do you think businesses like yours will likely restart investment in the UK in the medium term or would they see brighter prospects in the EU? I know, it's a general question. Trying to get a feel.
  • justin124 said:

    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    I have just come across a photograph of Neville Chamberlain leaving the Treasury to present his April 1934 Budget. I was struck that he was wearing a Top Hat - and wondered when that tradition was abandoned.

    Probably around the same time that morals fell through the floor, what?
    Possibly a little earlier than that - I don't think Stafford Cripps wore a Top Hat in the late 1940s though RA Butler may have restored the practice in the early to mid- 1950s. If a recent Chancellor had chosen to do that , I wonder whether it would have attracted comment.
    Unspoofable.
    I suppose that at the end of the day it would be a matter for the individual in that some people like wearing hats and are drawn to formality etc.I doubt that it would be seen as anything more than mildly eccentric - with perhaps a touch of exhibitionism.
    Make the Moggster Chancellor and we'll be seeing a comeback for the Topper!
  • justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    I have just come across a photograph of Neville Chamberlain leaving the Treasury to present his April 1934 Budget. I was struck that he was wearing a Top Hat - and wondered when that tradition was abandoned.

    Probably when people stopped wearing top hats.

    Chamberlain tended to dress in a rather formal, old-fashioned manner.
    But Top Hats had pretty well disappeared from day to day use a fair bit earlier than 1934 - and I suspect Chamberlain continued to wear them as late as 1937 when presenting his last Budget.
    Sure, but the Budget isn't a day to day thing.

    There were probably plenty of people still wearing top hats for formal events in the 1930s.

    Even the old prole in 1984 says he wore a top hat at a 1930s funeral.
  • Yorkcity said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not good for Leeds as they have already spent money on the application process.
    Aren't all these applications just an excuse for corporate jollies for the council highups ?

    The most ridiculous example IMO being when Goole applied for City status.
  • Scott_P said:
    They are still spending our money on it. What has changed is that we will no longer get any of the benefits in return.
  • justin124 said:

    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    I have just come across a photograph of Neville Chamberlain leaving the Treasury to present his April 1934 Budget. I was struck that he was wearing a Top Hat - and wondered when that tradition was abandoned.

    Probably around the same time that morals fell through the floor, what?
    Possibly a little earlier than that - I don't think Stafford Cripps wore a Top Hat in the late 1940s though RA Butler may have restored the practice in the early to mid- 1950s. If a recent Chancellor had chosen to do that , I wonder whether it would have attracted comment.
    Unspoofable.
    I suppose that at the end of the day it would be a matter for the individual in that some people like wearing hats and are drawn to formality etc.I doubt that it would be seen as anything more than mildly eccentric - with perhaps a touch of exhibitionism.
    Make the Moggster Chancellor and we'll be seeing a comeback for the Topper!
    With a monocle ?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,769
    Scott_P said:
    It looks like they are all retweets from Darren Grimes. Perhaps the Electoral Commission has them worried...
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,268
    Scott_P said:

    Fenman said:

    This is an important gesture by India. This gives the brexiteers the opportunity I'm sure they have been looking for to show their commitment to international trade and to prove they are not the racist scum guardianistas accuse them of being.

    Take Back Control...

    ...by allowing India to dictate immigration policy.

    Yup, can't see any problem with the Brexiteers endorsing this
    If there were a reciprocal agreement to make it easier for UK companies to do business in India, and for Brits to work there, then this Brexiteer wouldn't mind too much. Indians have to be quite highly skilled to get work visas, and increasing the number of those is nothing like allowing any Indian to settle here.
  • Yorkcity said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not good for Leeds as they have already spent money on the application process.
    The EU are doing their best to torpedo any chance of a good relationship in a misguided attempt to bully us into staying.

    And by the way - In fairness I might be old (not elderly) at 74 but still have some of my faculties but at times watching Sky news all day makes me question my sanity.
  • Yorkcity said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not good for Leeds as they have already spent money on the application process.
    The EU are doing their best to torpedo any chance of a good relationship in a misguided attempt to bully us into staying.

    And by the way - In fairness I might be old (not elderly) at 74 but still have some of my faculties but at times watching Sky news all day makes me question my sanity.
    If you don't turn over when Kay Burley is presenting then you have definitely started to lose it.
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 500

    jayfdee said:

    This makes me count my blessings.

    I'm also glad I was raised by parents who view debt as the eighth deadliest sin.

    Me too. I am relieved that I can ride out Brexit with impunity, and have sorted my offspring as well, and sorted my finance.
    Are we at tipping point yet re Brexit?
    I am a remainer, and the self inflicted damage we are receiving will only grow. Yes I am old, a northerner, time to come out and declare.
    Perhaps you could detail this damage ?

    Does it include this:

    ' Growth in manufacturing output accelerated in the three months to November according to the latest monthly CBI Industrial Trends Survey.

    Order books also continued to fill up. Total orders were, by a small margin, the strongest since August 1988, while export order books were the joint highest in more than 20 years. '

    http://www.cbi.org.uk/news/manufacturing-orders-strongest-for-nearly-30-years/
    Yes I still invest in the UK where I see value. My history is in the Chemical industry, but I lived through a period of controlled decline.
    Increasingly I invest elsewhere, my decisions?,time will tell, but I am happy to live with the consequences.
    As said, I am relieved that I am confident that I can ride out the worst of Brexit, and look after my family, sorry that others not so lucky will suffer.
  • Scott_P said:

    Fenman said:

    This is an important gesture by India. This gives the brexiteers the opportunity I'm sure they have been looking for to show their commitment to international trade and to prove they are not the racist scum guardianistas accuse them of being.

    Take Back Control...

    ...by allowing India to dictate immigration policy.

    Yup, can't see any problem with the Brexiteers endorsing this
    If there were a reciprocal agreement to make it easier for UK companies to do business in India, and for Brits to work there, then this Brexiteer wouldn't mind too much. Indians have to be quite highly skilled to get work visas, and increasing the number of those is nothing like allowing any Indian to settle here.
    Our Remainers seem rather more concerned about the prospect of skilled middle class Indian immigrants than of unskilled underclass Eastern European immigrants.

    Perhaps because skilled middle class Indians might actually prove a threat to their jobs and earnings ?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 7,948
    Why are MPs stupid enough to delete Tweets?
  • Yorkcity said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not good for Leeds as they have already spent money on the application process.
    The EU are doing their best to torpedo any chance of a good relationship in a misguided attempt to bully us into staying.

    And by the way - In fairness I might be old (not elderly) at 74 but still have some of my faculties but at times watching Sky news all day makes me question my sanity.
    If you don't turn over when Kay Burley is presenting then you have definitely started to lose it.
    Kay is nowhere near as bad as Faisal Islam and the whole pro remain journalists. However, she does have moments I could throw something at the TV
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 7,948

    Yorkcity said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not good for Leeds as they have already spent money on the application process.
    The EU are doing their best to torpedo any chance of a good relationship in a misguided attempt to bully us into staying.

    And by the way - In fairness I might be old (not elderly) at 74 but still have some of my faculties but at times watching Sky news all day makes me question my sanity.
    Seems like a reasonable question for someone who watches Sky News all day.
  • Yorkcity said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not good for Leeds as they have already spent money on the application process.
    The EU are doing their best to torpedo any chance of a good relationship in a misguided attempt to bully us into staying.

    And by the way - In fairness I might be old (not elderly) at 74 but still have some of my faculties but at times watching Sky news all day makes me question my sanity.
    If you don't turn over when Kay Burley is presenting then you have definitely started to lose it.
    Kay is nowhere near as bad as Faisal Islam and the whole pro remain journalists. However, she does have moments I could throw something at the TV
    Why don't you watch something else ?
  • Jonathan said:

    Why are MPs stupid enough to delete Tweets?

    Because they're stupid enough to tweet in the first place.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,459

    Scott_P said:

    Fenman said:

    This is an important gesture by India. This gives the brexiteers the opportunity I'm sure they have been looking for to show their commitment to international trade and to prove they are not the racist scum guardianistas accuse them of being.

    Take Back Control...

    ...by allowing India to dictate immigration policy.

    Yup, can't see any problem with the Brexiteers endorsing this
    If there were a reciprocal agreement to make it easier for UK companies to do business in India, and for Brits to work there, then this Brexiteer wouldn't mind too much. Indians have to be quite highly skilled to get work visas, and increasing the number of those is nothing like allowing any Indian to settle here.
    Our Remainers seem rather more concerned about the prospect of skilled middle class Indian immigrants than of unskilled underclass Eastern European immigrants.

    Perhaps because skilled middle class Indians might actually prove a threat to their jobs and earnings ?
    :)
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 2,993

    Yorkcity said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not good for Leeds as they have already spent money on the application process.
    The EU are doing their best to torpedo any chance of a good relationship in a misguided attempt to bully us into staying.

    And by the way - In fairness I might be old (not elderly) at 74 but still have some of my faculties but at times watching Sky news all day makes me question my sanity.
    If you don't turn over when Kay Burley is presenting then you have definitely started to lose it.
    Kay is nowhere near as bad as Faisal Islam and the whole pro remain journalists. However, she does have moments I could throw something at the TV
    Has Adam Boulton been sidelined ? He does not seem as high profile on Sky News as he used to be.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,769

    Scott_P said:
    It looks like they are all retweets from Darren Grimes. Perhaps the Electoral Commission has them worried...
  • Scott_P said:
    Well I am certainly pleased. AS I said on the previous thread I thought it was an idiotic scheme.
  • Yorkcity said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not good for Leeds as they have already spent money on the application process.
    The EU are doing their best to torpedo any chance of a good relationship in a misguided attempt to bully us into staying.

    And by the way - In fairness I might be old (not elderly) at 74 but still have some of my faculties but at times watching Sky news all day makes me question my sanity.
    If you don't turn over when Kay Burley is presenting then you have definitely started to lose it.
    Kay is nowhere near as bad as Faisal Islam and the whole pro remain journalists. However, she does have moments I could throw something at the TV
    Why don't you watch something else ?
    Of course I do and actually BBC seem more balanced these days, but of course I need my daily revisit to that wonderful city of Melbourne with neighbours ( been on the set would you believe), daily visit to Yorkshire with Emmerdale ( been on their set as well) and add in most sports including football, cricket and golf in between watching Paw Patrol and PJ Masks with my grand children

    Indeed (sorry Dixie) but watching Everton losing 1- 0 at home in the Europa cup just now
  • Yorkcity said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Scott_P said:
    Not good for Leeds as they have already spent money on the application process.
    The EU are doing their best to torpedo any chance of a good relationship in a misguided attempt to bully us into staying.

    And by the way - In fairness I might be old (not elderly) at 74 but still have some of my faculties but at times watching Sky news all day makes me question my sanity.
    If you don't turn over when Kay Burley is presenting then you have definitely started to lose it.
    Kay is nowhere near as bad as Faisal Islam and the whole pro remain journalists. However, she does have moments I could throw something at the TV
    Has Adam Boulton been sidelined ? He does not seem as high profile on Sky News as he used to be.
    He is on daily at 10.00 in the politics show but he really struggles trying to keep his very remain and pro labour views from bursting out.
  • Is that actual poverty or relative poverty ?
  • Scott_P said:
    Well I am certainly pleased. AS I said on the previous thread I thought it was an idiotic scheme.
    Such schemes are make-work programs for middle class non-jobs and for bureaucrats to piss money up the wall by having piss-ups.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 6,743
    edited November 2017

    Scott_P said:

    Fenman said:

    This is an important gesture by India. This gives the brexiteers the opportunity I'm sure they have been looking for to show their commitment to international trade and to prove they are not the racist scum guardianistas accuse them of being.

    Take Back Control...

    ...by allowing India to dictate immigration policy.

    Yup, can't see any problem with the Brexiteers endorsing this
    If there were a reciprocal agreement to make it easier for UK companies to do business in India, and for Brits to work there, then this Brexiteer wouldn't mind too much. Indians have to be quite highly skilled to get work visas, and increasing the number of those is nothing like allowing any Indian to settle here.
    Our Remainers seem rather more concerned about the prospect of skilled middle class Indian immigrants than of unskilled underclass Eastern European immigrants.

    Perhaps because skilled middle class Indians might actually prove a threat to their jobs and earnings ?
    I’m not concerned, I’ve long been pro-immigration. I think you were only telling me yesterday that it was Eastern European immigration which made things difficult for my demographic.

    I think those who will be concerned if we have to allow more immigration India will be Leavers though - even if the ones on here aren’t.
  • Norway must have a very effective 'sterilise the poor' policy.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,810

    twitter.com/telegraph/status/933760814049247232

    LOL

    Indian doctors or Romanian pickpockets? Tough choice.

    (For the avoidance of doubt, l am not saying that all Romanians are pickpockets.)
    ... or all Indians are doctors?
    So pretty pointless comment.
    Except that it any deal it would probably be restricted to high skilled labour.
  • Norway must have a very effective 'sterilise the poor' policy.
    Or 'sterilise the rich' if its relative poverty.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,810

    Scott_P said:

    Fenman said:

    This is an important gesture by India. This gives the brexiteers the opportunity I'm sure they have been looking for to show their commitment to international trade and to prove they are not the racist scum guardianistas accuse them of being.

    Take Back Control...

    ...by allowing India to dictate immigration policy.

    Yup, can't see any problem with the Brexiteers endorsing this
    If there were a reciprocal agreement to make it easier for UK companies to do business in India, and for Brits to work there, then this Brexiteer wouldn't mind too much. Indians have to be quite highly skilled to get work visas, and increasing the number of those is nothing like allowing any Indian to settle here.
    Our Remainers seem rather more concerned about the prospect of skilled middle class Indian immigrants than of unskilled underclass Eastern European immigrants.

    Perhaps because skilled middle class Indians might actually prove a threat to their jobs and earnings ?
    I’m not concerned, I’ve long been pro-immigration. I think you were only telling me yesterday that it was Eastern European immigration which made things difficult for my demographic.

    I think those who will be concerned if we have to allow FoM with India will be Leavers though - even if the ones on here aren’t.
    I don't think they are suggesting freedom of movement with India.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 6,743
    edited November 2017
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    Fenman said:

    This is an important gesture by India. This gives the brexiteers the opportunity I'm sure they have been looking for to show their commitment to international trade and to prove they are not the racist scum guardianistas accuse them of being.

    Take Back Control...

    ...by allowing India to dictate immigration policy.

    Yup, can't see any problem with the Brexiteers endorsing this
    If there were a reciprocal agreement to make it easier for UK companies to do business in India, and for Brits to work there, then this Brexiteer wouldn't mind too much. Indians have to be quite highly skilled to get work visas, and increasing the number of those is nothing like allowing any Indian to settle here.
    Our Remainers seem rather more concerned about the prospect of skilled middle class Indian immigrants than of unskilled underclass Eastern European immigrants.

    Perhaps because skilled middle class Indians might actually prove a threat to their jobs and earnings ?
    I’m not concerned, I’ve long been pro-immigration. I think you were only telling me yesterday that it was Eastern European immigration which made things difficult for my demographic.

    I think those who will be concerned if we have to allow FoM with India will be Leavers though - even if the ones on here aren’t.
    I don't think they are suggesting freedom of movement with India.
    Correction, more immigrants from India.

    Re the Child Povery tweet: doesn’t specify absolute or relative in the tweets, but I’d have thought it would be pretty alarming either way that we are so near the bottom on the issue in comparison to other countries.
  • Talking of Indians.

    @PeterKGeoghegan: The former deputy leader of the Ulster unionist party describing the irish Taoiseach as ‘the Indian’. Nice

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,769

    Talking of Indians.

    @PeterKGeoghegan: The former deputy leader of the Ulster unionist party describing the irish Taoiseach as ‘the Indian’. Nice

    When in a hole...

  • Scott_P said:

    Fenman said:

    This is an important gesture by India. This gives the brexiteers the opportunity I'm sure they have been looking for to show their commitment to international trade and to prove they are not the racist scum guardianistas accuse them of being.

    Take Back Control...

    ...by allowing India to dictate immigration policy.

    Yup, can't see any problem with the Brexiteers endorsing this
    If there were a reciprocal agreement to make it easier for UK companies to do business in India, and for Brits to work there, then this Brexiteer wouldn't mind too much. Indians have to be quite highly skilled to get work visas, and increasing the number of those is nothing like allowing any Indian to settle here.
    Our Remainers seem rather more concerned about the prospect of skilled middle class Indian immigrants than of unskilled underclass Eastern European immigrants.

    Perhaps because skilled middle class Indians might actually prove a threat to their jobs and earnings ?
    I’m not concerned, I’ve long been pro-immigration. I think you were only telling me yesterday that it was Eastern European immigration which made things difficult for my demographic.

    I think those who will be concerned if we have to allow FoM with India will be Leavers though - even if the ones on here aren’t.
    People tend to view things on whether they are beneficial or detimental to them personally - its human nature.

    If we'd had immigration restricted to middle class professionals there would have been a lot less concern in working class areas but howls of outrage from Tarquin and Jemima's parents when their little darlings weren't able to get graduate jobs because some immigrant was willing to do it cheaper and better.

    Please forgive the AB sterotyping.
  • FF43 said:

    FF43 said:


    Indeed the year had been allocated. Nevertheless the programme no longer applies and cannot apply to the UK unless there's a new decision made to the effect by the European Council and European Parliament.

    I suppose thinking about it, it could be included in the A50 Withdrawal Agreement if we cough up the €50 billion and sort out Ireland etc. Perhaps the Eurocrats could have said that by default it wasn't happening but there might be a decision in 18 months time to allow it. What they can't do is allow the UK programme to proceed now.


    Why can't we just declare our own European City of Culture? Let the bids be decided by the UK.

    We'll still be part of Europe after we leave the EU.

    In my opinion the UK government should do that. The Department of Culture Media and Sport misled candidate cities into bidding and spending money on a programme they weren't eligible for.
    Impact of the UK Decision to Leave the EU

    On 23 June 2016 the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union. The UK is still a full and active Member of the EU. Therefore, the competition for the European Capital of Culture 2023 will run as normal.

    The outcome of exit negotiations with the EU will determine what arrangements apply in relation to EU-administered programmes once the UK has exited. Until the UK has left the EU it remains a full member with all the rights and obligations of EU membership which includes fully engaging in relevant cultural programmes. We are committed for the UK to host the title in 2023, however bidding cities should be aware that the European Capital of Culture title may be subject to the outcome of those exit negotiations which could have a bearing on the UK’s participation and the government will advise bidding cities on this once negotiations have concluded.

    As with previous European Capital of Culture competitions, it is the responsibility of the cities and councils to develop and finance their bids for the competition. As is usual with cultural programmes and competitions the UK government bears no responsibility for the financial investment made by the cities and councils.


    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/578284/Impact_of_the_UK_Decision_to_Leave_the_EU.pdf
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,400
    Scott_P said:
    Absolutely. Complete waste of time and money so some luvvies can keep themselves in plonk.
  • Scott_P said:

    Fenman said:

    This is an important gesture by India. This gives the brexiteers the opportunity I'm sure they have been looking for to show their commitment to international trade and to prove they are not the racist scum guardianistas accuse them of being.

    Take Back Control...

    ...by allowing India to dictate immigration policy.

    Yup, can't see any problem with the Brexiteers endorsing this
    If there were a reciprocal agreement to make it easier for UK companies to do business in India, and for Brits to work there, then this Brexiteer wouldn't mind too much. Indians have to be quite highly skilled to get work visas, and increasing the number of those is nothing like allowing any Indian to settle here.
    Our Remainers seem rather more concerned about the prospect of skilled middle class Indian immigrants than of unskilled underclass Eastern European immigrants.

    Perhaps because skilled middle class Indians might actually prove a threat to their jobs and earnings ?
    I’m not concerned, I’ve long been pro-immigration. I think you were only telling me yesterday that it was Eastern European immigration which made things difficult for my demographic.

    I think those who will be concerned if we have to allow FoM with India will be Leavers though - even if the ones on here aren’t.
    People tend to view things on whether they are beneficial or detimental to them personally - its human nature.

    If we'd had immigration restricted to middle class professionals there would have been a lot less concern in working class areas but howls of outrage from Tarquin and Jemima's parents when their little darlings weren't able to get graduate jobs because some immigrant was willing to do it cheaper and better.

    Please forgive the AB sterotyping.
    Has immigration been restricted to only working class professions though? I doubt that white collar jobs haven’t been effected by immigration to some extent or another.

    I also think people’s concerns about immigration go beyond economic reasons.
This discussion has been closed.