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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Monday morning cartoon

SystemSystem Posts: 3,967
edited December 4 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Monday morning cartoon

Helen Cochrane and Nicholas Leonard have given an interview to Cable Magazine about their cartoons and the world of cartoons, the interview can be read here.

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • Gosh, the lonely lurker.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,411

    Gosh, the lonely lurker.

    There are dozens of us :smiley:
  • We, the silent majority, must find our voice.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,315

    We, the silent majority, must find our voice.

    Shhhhh
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,315
    Ali looks by far the most composed of the English batsmen.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 17,801
    Re: the cartoon

    I guess the Tory "hand on knees" can be laughed about while the Kaboyr cover up of alleged rapes, suicides and groping gets ignored right?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 14,976
    rcs1000 said:

    Ali looks by far the most composed of the English batsmen.

    Yes, but he shouldn’t have been needed until tomorrow.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 24,874
    All very predictable down under. I wonder how much BT wasted on buying the rights.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 59,709
    edited December 4

    All very predictable down under. I wonder how much BT wasted on buying the rights.

    £80 million. Five year deal for all international cricket in Australia plus The Big Bash.

    Covers one Ashes series.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 33,339
    @tconnellyRTE: An EU source has told @rtenews there has been no breakthrough in the overnight talks between British, European Commission and Irish officials on the Irish border issue post Brexit. It now looks unlikely the Irish cabinet will have a text to approve when it meets in Dublin at 9am
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 14,976

    All very predictable down under. I wonder how much BT wasted on buying the rights.

    £80 million. Five year deal for all international cricket in Australia plus The Big Bash.

    Covers one Ashes series.
    £8m would have been more realistic. The time zone makes it something for the diehards, and there’s not going to be many of those left after this match.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 17,321
    Sandpit said:

    All very predictable down under. I wonder how much BT wasted on buying the rights.

    £80 million. Five year deal for all international cricket in Australia plus The Big Bash.

    Covers one Ashes series.
    £8m would have been more realistic. The time zone makes it something for the diehards, and there’s not going to be many of those left after this match.
    Very poor effort by England again. What I have found irritating about BT is the lack of a catch up facility, Given that watching through the night is really not viable I would like to see some play when I have time.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,315
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    All very predictable down under. I wonder how much BT wasted on buying the rights.

    £80 million. Five year deal for all international cricket in Australia plus The Big Bash.

    Covers one Ashes series.
    £8m would have been more realistic. The time zone makes it something for the diehards, and there’s not going to be many of those left after this match.
    Very poor effort by England again. What I have found irritating about BT is the lack of a catch up facility, Given that watching through the night is really not viable I would like to see some play when I have time.
    They could do a three or four minute show of all the England highlights.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 17,321
    Best partnership of the Innings between Woakes and Overton. Some of our supposedly esteemed top 6 really need to look at themselves.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 14,976
    edited December 4
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    All very predictable down under. I wonder how much BT wasted on buying the rights.

    £80 million. Five year deal for all international cricket in Australia plus The Big Bash.

    Covers one Ashes series.
    £8m would have been more realistic. The time zone makes it something for the diehards, and there’s not going to be many of those left after this match.
    Very poor effort by England again. What I have found irritating about BT is the lack of a catch up facility, Given that watching through the night is really not viable I would like to see some play when I have time.
    That’s annoying - although not as annoying as being up at 7am praying England can get 75 runs for the last three wickets to avoid the follow on and a certain innings defeat.

    Sky used to do a full day’s replay starting at 11am, then a 90-minute highlights package at 7pm which I thought was pretty much perfect for the various audiences.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 15,056
    A Monday morning cartoon? What have we become - Guido??
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 17,321
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    All very predictable down under. I wonder how much BT wasted on buying the rights.

    £80 million. Five year deal for all international cricket in Australia plus The Big Bash.

    Covers one Ashes series.
    £8m would have been more realistic. The time zone makes it something for the diehards, and there’s not going to be many of those left after this match.
    Very poor effort by England again. What I have found irritating about BT is the lack of a catch up facility, Given that watching through the night is really not viable I would like to see some play when I have time.
    That’s annoying - although not as annoying as being up at 7am praying England can get 75 runs for the last three wickets to avoid the follow on.

    Sky used to do a full day’s replay starting at 11am, then a 90-minute highlights package at 7pm which I thought was pretty much perfect for the various audiences.
    Yes, they have a much more flexible and comprehensive platform than BT which allows them to get better value from their sports coverage. BT's set up looks really old fashioned by comparison, like back in the days we really had channels.

    Not sure if Australia would/will enforce the follow on. Their quicks are doing a lot of work.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 33,339
    Can't believe nobody is talking about the big political news of the day.

    Bye bye Kez...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 15,056
    Scott_P said:

    Can't believe nobody is talking about the big political news of the day.

    Bye bye Kez...

    But she had even less to offer Australia than the England batting.....
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 4,979
    Scott_P said:

    @tconnellyRTE: An EU source has told @rtenews there has been no breakthrough in the overnight talks between British, European Commission and Irish officials on the Irish border issue post Brexit. It now looks unlikely the Irish cabinet will have a text to approve when it meets in Dublin at 9am

    This sounds like a stand-up from the 1970s:

    "An Englishman, an Irishman and a Eurocrat walk in to a negotiation..."
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 4,979
    Scott_P said:

    Can't believe nobody is talking about the big political news of the day.

    Bye bye Kez...

    Will she be defecting to the Nats when she gets home?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 22,049
    This must be one of those cartoons that's only funny to see those on the political Left.

    Bring back Marf.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 1,157

    This must be one of those cartoons that's only funny to see those on the political Left.

    Bring back Marf.

    There aren't many jokes involving changing lyrics that are funny. But I had a giggle when I heard some choir boys practicing in Chichester cathedral altering 'My Heart is Inditing' to 'My Tart Is Brighton'
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,177

    This must be one of those cartoons that's only funny to see those on the political Left.

    Bring back Marf.

    oh be fair, the left have to cope with Tony Blair's comeback
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 15,056
    Commentators on English cricket would be lost without the five words "Can England avoid the follow-on?"......
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 41,925
    If Overton ends up getting the most first innings runs and wickets, was it right to select him over Mark Wood :) ?
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 2,610
    Survation Scottish opinion poll if you scroll through the article.

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-labours-second-chance-party-11634950
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 14,976
    edited December 4

    Commentators on English cricket would be lost without the five words "Can England avoid the follow-on?"......

    Come on England, only 35 runs more to avoid an innings defeat...

    Anyone wanting a 12% return in a day or two head to Betfair
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/cricket/event/28494509/multi-market?marketIds=1.137425525
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 3,546
    rcs1000 said:

    Ali looks by far the most composed of the English batsmen.

    But that batting has led to his retention despite being (for now) utterly ineffective as England's spinner.
    I'm not sure either of these sides have particularly solid batting lineups - it's the lack of threat in our bowling which will likely see us crushed this series.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 4,979

    Survation Scottish opinion poll if you scroll through the article.

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-labours-second-chance-party-11634950

    The poll by Survation – the only firm to accurately ­forecast June’s ­election result – put the SNP on 37 per cent – the same as they polled in June.

    But Labour are up one point to 28 per cent and the Tories have dropped four to 25 per cent.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 4,979
    And for Holyrood:

    Support for the SNP in the ­constituency vote has dropped from 46 per cent in the last Holyrood ­election in May 2016 to 39 per cent.

    On the regional vote, the party has dropped by nine points from 42 per cent to 33 per cent.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 14,976
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Ali looks by far the most composed of the English batsmen.

    But that batting has led to his retention despite being (for now) utterly ineffective as England's spinner.
    I'm not sure either of these sides have particularly solid batting lineups - it's the lack of threat in our bowling which will likely see us crushed this series.
    Yup. It’s one thing getting crushed by one of the best sides to ever play the sport, it’s another thing to get crushed by a very mediocre opponent who have had their own press on their backs about not being up to standard.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 7,729

    This must be one of those cartoons that's only funny to see those on the political Left.

    Bring back Marf.

    There aren't many jokes involving changing lyrics that are funny. But I had a giggle when I heard some choir boys practicing in Chichester cathedral altering 'My Heart is Inditing' to 'My Tart Is Brighton'
    If you put a breath in the wrong place, Leonard Cohen's 'Hallelujah' contains the line 'I'll stand before the Lord of Song with nothing on.'
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 9,623
    Sandpit said:

    Commentators on English cricket would be lost without the five words "Can England avoid the follow-on?"......

    Come on England, only 35 runs more to avoid an innings defeat...

    Anyone wanting a 12% return in a day or two head to Betfair
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/cricket/event/28494509/multi-market?marketIds=1.137425525
    Tip of the year, I'd think, though I'm no cricket expert. It's now 14%, and there's £36,000 to pick up. DYOR but...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 3,546
    Pulpstar said:

    If Overton ends up getting the most first innings runs and wickets, was it right to select him over Mark Wood :) ?

    Isn't Wood's fitness still doubtful ?
    England took a similar risk playing Moeen. It didn't come off.

    Overton is a useful third seamer, who appears to have a better attitude than many in the team. That both of our opening bowlers are slower than Australia's third seamer seems to be the real problem, and there isn't an easy solution.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 7,729
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Ali looks by far the most composed of the English batsmen.

    But that batting has led to his retention despite being (for now) utterly ineffective as England's spinner.
    I'm not sure either of these sides have particularly solid batting lineups - it's the lack of threat in our bowling which will likely see us crushed this series.
    Yup. It’s one thing getting crushed by one of the best sides to ever play the sport, it’s another thing to get crushed by a very mediocre opponent who have had their own press on their backs about not being up to standard.
    I think any side including Smith and Starc would be dangerous, especially at home.

    Without those two I think it would be a lot more even. Indeed, without Smith Australia would surely have lost the last Test.

    But that's the point - anyone can win on a counter factual. 'If the administration of English cricket was done by people who were vaguely competent, or if Giles Clarke had been eaten by a stray rhinoceros in 2003, they wouldn't have flogged the TV rights to Sky and BT and cricket would be far more popular.'
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 14,976

    Sandpit said:

    Commentators on English cricket would be lost without the five words "Can England avoid the follow-on?"......

    Come on England, only 35 runs more to avoid an innings defeat...

    Anyone wanting a 12% return in a day or two head to Betfair
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/cricket/event/28494509/multi-market?marketIds=1.137425525
    Tip of the year, I'd think, though I'm no cricket expert. It's now 14%, and there's £36,000 to pick up. DYOR but...
    Damn. I just dropped a bag of sand on the 12%. Hey ho.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 3,546

    Sandpit said:

    Commentators on English cricket would be lost without the five words "Can England avoid the follow-on?"......

    Come on England, only 35 runs more to avoid an innings defeat...

    Anyone wanting a 12% return in a day or two head to Betfair
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/cricket/event/28494509/multi-market?marketIds=1.137425525
    Tip of the year, I'd think, though I'm no cricket expert. It's now 14%, and there's £36,000 to pick up. DYOR but...
    What's the weather forecast....?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 14,976
    edited December 4
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Commentators on English cricket would be lost without the five words "Can England avoid the follow-on?"......

    Come on England, only 35 runs more to avoid an innings defeat...

    Anyone wanting a 12% return in a day or two head to Betfair
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/cricket/event/28494509/multi-market?marketIds=1.137425525
    Tip of the year, I'd think, though I'm no cricket expert. It's now 14%, and there's £36,000 to pick up. DYOR but...
    What's the weather forecast....?
    No more than the occasional brief shower for the next three days. Sadly for England.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 14,976
    Remarkably, England are odds against to win a match in this series. 2.06 for small money
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/cricket/event/28291335/market?marketId=1.134731400
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 9,623
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Commentators on English cricket would be lost without the five words "Can England avoid the follow-on?"......

    Come on England, only 35 runs more to avoid an innings defeat...

    Anyone wanting a 12% return in a day or two head to Betfair
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/cricket/event/28494509/multi-market?marketIds=1.137425525
    Tip of the year, I'd think, though I'm no cricket expert. It's now 14%, and there's £36,000 to pick up. DYOR but...
    What's the weather forecast....?
    No more than the occasional brief shower for the next three days. Sadly for England.
    Now gone up to 15%. There are people currently still betting thousands on a draw.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 3,546
    edited December 4
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Ali looks by far the most composed of the English batsmen.

    But that batting has led to his retention despite being (for now) utterly ineffective as England's spinner.
    I'm not sure either of these sides have particularly solid batting lineups - it's the lack of threat in our bowling which will likely see us crushed this series.
    Yup. It’s one thing getting crushed by one of the best sides to ever play the sport, it’s another thing to get crushed by a very mediocre opponent who have had their own press on their backs about not being up to standard.
    I think any side including Smith and Starc would be dangerous, especially at home.

    Without those two I think it would be a lot more even. Indeed, without Smith Australia would surely have lost the last Test.

    But that's the point - anyone can win on a counter factual. 'If the administration of English cricket was done by people who were vaguely competent, or if Giles Clarke had been eaten by a stray rhinoceros in 2003, they wouldn't have flogged the TV rights to Sky and BT and cricket would be far more popular.'
    That's true - but I do think the absence of Stokes, which came out of the blue, right at the last moment, has unbalanced team. While not quite top class either as a batsmen or bowler, he's pretty close, and without him we were never going (for instance) to gamble on Crane instead of the partly fit Moeen, or play Wood rather than Woakes.

    And we also lost our best fielder.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 14,976
    edited December 4

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Commentators on English cricket would be lost without the five words "Can England avoid the follow-on?"......

    Come on England, only 35 runs more to avoid an innings defeat...

    Anyone wanting a 12% return in a day or two head to Betfair
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/cricket/event/28494509/multi-market?marketIds=1.137425525
    Tip of the year, I'd think, though I'm no cricket expert. It's now 14%, and there's £36,000 to pick up. DYOR but...
    What's the weather forecast....?
    No more than the occasional brief shower for the next three days. Sadly for England.
    Now gone up to 15%. There are people currently still betting thousands on a draw.
    Optimistic Englishmen. That, or I’ve made the biggest mistake since throwing away a similar amount at 1.25 on the Tory majority in June!!

    Definitely no storms on the horizon.
    https://weather.com/en-GB/weather/today/l/-34.93,138.60
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 7,729
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Commentators on English cricket would be lost without the five words "Can England avoid the follow-on?"......

    Come on England, only 35 runs more to avoid an innings defeat...

    Anyone wanting a 12% return in a day or two head to Betfair
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/cricket/event/28494509/multi-market?marketIds=1.137425525
    Tip of the year, I'd think, though I'm no cricket expert. It's now 14%, and there's £36,000 to pick up. DYOR but...
    What's the weather forecast....?
    No more than the occasional brief shower for the next three days. Sadly for England.
    There appears to be the risk of our batting being the only shower on show! :smiley:

    I'm off to work. Have a good day.
  • Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Ali looks by far the most composed of the English batsmen.

    But that batting has led to his retention despite being (for now) utterly ineffective as England's spinner.
    I'm not sure either of these sides have particularly solid batting lineups - it's the lack of threat in our bowling which will likely see us crushed this series.
    Yup. It’s one thing getting crushed by one of the best sides to ever play the sport, it’s another thing to get crushed by a very mediocre opponent who have had their own press on their backs about not being up to standard.
    I think any side including Smith and Starc would be dangerous, especially at home.

    Without those two I think it would be a lot more even. Indeed, without Smith Australia would surely have lost the last Test.

    But that's the point - anyone can win on a counter factual. 'If the administration of English cricket was done by people who were vaguely competent, or if Giles Clarke had been eaten by a stray rhinoceros in 2003, they wouldn't have flogged the TV rights to Sky and BT and cricket would be far more popular.'
    That's true - but I do think the absence of Stokes, which came out of the blue, right at the last moment, has unbalanced team. While not quite top class either as a batsmen or bowler, he's pretty close, and without him we were never going (for instance) to gamble on Crane instead of the partly fit Moeen, or play Wood rather than Woakes.

    And we also lost our best fielder.
    We also didn't pick the best squad, or anywhere near it.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 39,452
    Good morning, everyone.

    Hmm. Nice line, though it does suggest that one party's dirty and the others are clean, which is not the case.

    What is the case is that my post-season review has a quartet of splendid graphs. Lib Dems might be excited to learn this includes two bar charts, one of which is three-dimensional:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2017/12/2017-post-season-review.html
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 9,540
    edited December 4

    Good morning, everyone.

    Hmm. Nice line, though it does suggest that one party's dirty and the others are clean, which is not the case.

    What is the case is that my post-season review has a quartet of splendid graphs. Lib Dems might be excited to learn this includes two bar charts, one of which is three-dimensional:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2017/12/2017-post-season-review.html

    Ah, but does it show the 'LibDems Winning Here’?
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 1,632

    This must be one of those cartoons that's only funny to see those on the political Left.

    Bring back Marf.

    There aren't many jokes involving changing lyrics that are funny. But I had a giggle when I heard some choir boys practicing in Chichester cathedral altering 'My Heart is Inditing' to 'My Tart Is Brighton'
    You are quite right, it is really hard to find an appropriate rhyme for "Two Labour Sex Pest Suicides". Really, really hard.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 9,540
    ydoethur said:

    This must be one of those cartoons that's only funny to see those on the political Left.

    Bring back Marf.

    There aren't many jokes involving changing lyrics that are funny. But I had a giggle when I heard some choir boys practicing in Chichester cathedral altering 'My Heart is Inditing' to 'My Tart Is Brighton'
    If you put a breath in the wrong place, Leonard Cohen's 'Hallelujah' contains the line 'I'll stand before the Lord of Song with nothing on.'
    To quote the old favourite ‘Gladly my Croos-Eyed bear’.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 39,452
    King Cole, no, but, to be fair, the Lib Dems don't have a team in F1.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 9,540
    edited December 4

    King Cole, no, but, to be fair, the Lib Dems don't have a team in F1.

    Bit hard with a taxi! Or even two!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 36,073
    edited December 4
    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Raab is 5th, Rudd 6th, Stewart 7th and Hunt 8th and Patel 9th and Williamson 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 8,896
    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Rabb is 5th, Rudd 7th, Stewart 8th and Hunt 9th and Patel 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    Just 18% for the front runner! What a mess they are in.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 14,976
    And there goes Broad. 15 runs required for the last wicket...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 36,073
    edited December 4
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Rabb is 5th, Rudd 7th, Stewart 8th and Hunt 9th and Patel 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    Just 18% for the front runner! What a mess they are in.
    Though even Corbyn did not get more than 50% until the leadership campaign itself was well under way.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 39,452
    Mr. B2, could be worse. After Alexander's death the choice of successor was between a simple fellow and a foetus.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 14,976
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Rabb is 5th, Rudd 7th, Stewart 8th and Hunt 9th and Patel 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    Just 18% for the front runner! What a mess they are in.
    Though even Corbyn did not get more than 50% until the leadership campaign itself was well under way.
    Even after the nominations closed, Corbyn was a 100/1 outsider.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 33,339
    @BBCNormanS: Met boss Cressida Dicks says reviewing whether police in Damian Green leak have committed any offences @BBCLondonNews
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 22,049
    Scott_P said:
    They will rue the day they didn't watch wee eck.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 36,073
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Rabb is 5th, Rudd 7th, Stewart 8th and Hunt 9th and Patel 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    Just 18% for the front runner! What a mess they are in.
    Though even Corbyn did not get more than 50% until the leadership campaign itself was well under way.
    Even after the nominations closed, Corbyn was a 100/1 outsider.
    Yes, if the Tory membership are in a mood for their own Corbyn they will pick Mogg whatever the pundits say. Though Mogg is already on more favourable odds than Corbyn was then.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 19,105
    Nothing beats the New Statesman's headline, following the resignation of Ian Harvey in 1958.

    "There are Tories at the bottoms of our guardsmen."
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 33,339

    They will rue the day they didn't watch wee eck.

    The rocks will melt with the sun before I would watch that show
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 4,979
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Rabb is 5th, Rudd 7th, Stewart 8th and Hunt 9th and Patel 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    Just 18% for the front runner! What a mess they are in.
    Though even Corbyn did not get more than 50% until the leadership campaign itself was well under way.
    Even after the nominations closed, Corbyn was a 100/1 outsider.
    Yes, if the Tory membership are in a mood for their own Corbyn they will pick Mogg whatever the pundits say. Though Mogg is already on more favourable odds than Corbyn was then.
    But will Tory MPs put the Moggster through to the final ballot in order to 'widen the debate'?

    Getting on the ballot is a much tougher ask with the Tory system.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 14,976
    Well that was a shocking innings from England.

    They’ll make us bat again, or rattle off a quick 150 and put us back in for a few overs tonight?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 36,073

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Rabb is 5th, Rudd 7th, Stewart 8th and Hunt 9th and Patel 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    Just 18% for the front runner! What a mess they are in.
    Though even Corbyn did not get more than 50% until the leadership campaign itself was well under way.
    Even after the nominations closed, Corbyn was a 100/1 outsider.
    Yes, if the Tory membership are in a mood for their own Corbyn they will pick Mogg whatever the pundits say. Though Mogg is already on more favourable odds than Corbyn was then.
    But will Tory MPs put the Moggster through to the final ballot in order to 'widen the debate'?

    Getting on the ballot is a much tougher ask with the Tory system.
    His biggest battle is getting the MP nominations yes but there are still probably enough diehard Brexiteers on the Tory backbenches to give him a shot at doing so.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 14,976

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Rabb is 5th, Rudd 7th, Stewart 8th and Hunt 9th and Patel 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    Just 18% for the front runner! What a mess they are in.
    Though even Corbyn did not get more than 50% until the leadership campaign itself was well under way.
    Even after the nominations closed, Corbyn was a 100/1 outsider.
    Yes, if the Tory membership are in a mood for their own Corbyn they will pick Mogg whatever the pundits say. Though Mogg is already on more favourable odds than Corbyn was then.
    But will Tory MPs put the Moggster through to the final ballot in order to 'widen the debate'?

    Getting on the ballot is a much tougher ask with the Tory system.
    Indeed so. JRM’s chances depend on whether the next leader is to be PM or LotO. He’s no chance of the former and every chance of the latter.

    He’s also a good shout to be next Speaker.
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 294
    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Raab is 5th, Rudd 6th, Stewart 7th and Hunt 8th and Patel 9th and Williamson 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    The cabinet Leavers are losing support because the Tory base want to know why they are not standing up to May over Brexit. If the Brexit 'deal' is as bad as the rumours and these guys do not resign, the Mogg will become the overwhelming favourite to be the next leader.

    The next two weeks are going to determine who will be PM - and I can't see it being May for long unless she somehow gets something that even looks like a concession from the EU. Not looking likely.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 8,837
    FTPT
    Tim_B said:

    Pulpstar said:

    viewcode said:



    POINT 1
    A good definition of class in 2010's South-East England looks like this:

    lower working class: will never buy property, because they cannot afford it
    upper working class: buys property via mortgage, pays own deposit
    lower middle class: buys property via mortgage, relatives pay for deposit
    upper middle class: buys property outright, relatives pay for house
    upper class: will never buy property, because they will inherit

    Hmm. I don't buy property because I want someone else to look after the infrastructure while I spend my money on enjoying life. I like there being lots of BTL landlords as it gives me more choice. What class is that?
    Not sure but I can deduce a few things

    1) You most likely live in London - it has the lowest rental yields in the country.
    2) You have no pets, or small ones if any.
    3) You don't particularly have tonnes of material possessions (By weight & volume)
    The fundamental problem is not BTL, or second homes or any such thing - it is a huge lack of housing supply to meet demand, particularly in certain areas. Address that and you solve the problem.

    Yes, I know that it is an easy problem to state but by no means easy to solve. But it has been the case since the 1970s in the UK since I became a home owner there.
    It's an amazing coincidence that house prices started to rocket at exactly the same time as Tennant's rights were weakened and BTL mortgages were introduced.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 8,880
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Rabb is 5th, Rudd 7th, Stewart 8th and Hunt 9th and Patel 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    Just 18% for the front runner! What a mess they are in.
    Though even Corbyn did not get more than 50% until the leadership campaign itself was well under way.
    My MP was excitedly tweeting Liz 4% Kendall was the only realistic challenger to AB during the 1st week of the 2015 campaign. She was 2nd favourite at the time.
  • eekeek Posts: 1,913

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Rabb is 5th, Rudd 7th, Stewart 8th and Hunt 9th and Patel 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    Just 18% for the front runner! What a mess they are in.
    Though even Corbyn did not get more than 50% until the leadership campaign itself was well under way.
    My MP was excitedly tweeting Liz 4% Kendall was the only realistic challenger to AB during the 1st week of the 2015 campaign. She was 2nd favourite at the time.
    I paid my £3 to be part of that 4%
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 24,874
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Rabb is 5th, Rudd 7th, Stewart 8th and Hunt 9th and Patel 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    Just 18% for the front runner! What a mess they are in.
    Though even Corbyn did not get more than 50% until the leadership campaign itself was well under way.
    Even after the nominations closed, Corbyn was a 100/1 outsider.
    Yes, if the Tory membership are in a mood for their own Corbyn they will pick Mogg whatever the pundits say. Though Mogg is already on more favourable odds than Corbyn was then.

    Having met white supremacist Steve Bannon there’s no doubt that the Moggster sees himself as the Tory Corbyn: his enemies’ enemies are his friends.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 39,452
    Mr. Owls, to be fair, most people called the 2015 Labour leadership election wrong.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 17,801
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Rabb is 5th, Rudd 7th, Stewart 8th and Hunt 9th and Patel 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    Just 18% for the front runner! What a mess they are in.
    Though even Corbyn did not get more than 50% until the leadership campaign itself was well under way.
    Even after the nominations closed, Corbyn was a 100/1 outsider.
    Yes, if the Tory membership are in a mood for their own Corbyn they will pick Mogg whatever the pundits say. Though Mogg is already on more favourable odds than Corbyn was then.
    But will Tory MPs put the Moggster through to the final ballot in order to 'widen the debate'?

    Getting on the ballot is a much tougher ask with the Tory system.
    Indeed so. JRM’s chances depend on whether the next leader is to be PM or LotO. He’s no chance of the former and every chance of the latter.

    He’s also a good shout to be next Speaker.
    The Speaker role has the advantage of being one that he actually wants...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 19,105
    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    Tim_B said:

    Pulpstar said:

    viewcode said:



    POINT 1
    A good definition of class in 2010's South-East England looks like this:

    lower working class: will never buy property, because they cannot afford it
    upper working class: buys property via mortgage, pays own deposit
    lower middle class: buys property via mortgage, relatives pay for deposit
    upper middle class: buys property outright, relatives pay for house
    upper class: will never buy property, because they will inherit

    Hmm. I don't buy property because I want someone else to look after the infrastructure while I spend my money on enjoying life. I like there being lots of BTL landlords as it gives me more choice. What class is that?
    Not sure but I can deduce a few things

    1) You most likely live in London - it has the lowest rental yields in the country.
    2) You have no pets, or small ones if any.
    3) You don't particularly have tonnes of material possessions (By weight & volume)
    The fundamental problem is not BTL, or second homes or any such thing - it is a huge lack of housing supply to meet demand, particularly in certain areas. Address that and you solve the problem.

    Yes, I know that it is an easy problem to state but by no means easy to solve. But it has been the case since the 1970s in the UK since I became a home owner there.
    It's an amazing coincidence that house prices started to rocket at exactly the same time as Tennant's rights were weakened and BTL mortgages were introduced.
    In fact, house prices crashed, shortly after rents were deregulated in 1988, although I doubt if it was cause and effect.
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 294
    Letter in today's Telegraph sort of sums it up:

    SIR – My congratulations to Theresa May and her Government for securing a new first for Britain, and indeed, for the world.

    We are to be the first and only country in history to purchase a trade deficit.

    M  J  W Daley
    London W4
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 232
    I suspect this will affect our politics more than Brexit does over the next decade or two. Britain to become 17% Muslim by 2050.

    http://www.pewforum.org/2017/11/29/europes-growing-muslim-population/
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 232

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Rabb is 5th, Rudd 7th, Stewart 8th and Hunt 9th and Patel 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    Just 18% for the front runner! What a mess they are in.
    Though even Corbyn did not get more than 50% until the leadership campaign itself was well under way.
    Even after the nominations closed, Corbyn was a 100/1 outsider.
    Yes, if the Tory membership are in a mood for their own Corbyn they will pick Mogg whatever the pundits say. Though Mogg is already on more favourable odds than Corbyn was then.

    Having met white supremacist Steve Bannon there’s no doubt that the Moggster sees himself as the Tory Corbyn: his enemies’ enemies are his friends.

    If the choice is Corbyn or Mogg for Prime Minister, I will look to emigrate.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 2,610

    Letter in today's Telegraph sort of sums it up:

    SIR – My congratulations to Theresa May and her Government for securing a new first for Britain, and indeed, for the world.

    We are to be the first and only country in history to purchase a trade deficit.

    M  J  W Daley
    London W4

    Like :+1:
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 1,370

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Raab is 5th, Rudd 6th, Stewart 7th and Hunt 8th and Patel 9th and Williamson 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    The cabinet Leavers are losing support because the Tory base want to know why they are not standing up to May over Brexit. If the Brexit 'deal' is as bad as the rumours and these guys do not resign, the Mogg will become the overwhelming favourite to be the next leader.

    The next two weeks are going to determine who will be PM - and I can't see it being May for long unless she somehow gets something that even looks like a concession from the EU. Not looking likely.
    Not every Brexiteer is as raging as you, Mr/Ms Archer. The vast majority of those who matter (ie Tory MPs) accept that future payments are necessary to avoid a damaging cliff edge, and we won't get what we want straight away. Even if we don't proceed to stage 2 this month, May isn't going anywhere.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 4,979
    Elliot said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Rabb is 5th, Rudd 7th, Stewart 8th and Hunt 9th and Patel 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    Just 18% for the front runner! What a mess they are in.
    Though even Corbyn did not get more than 50% until the leadership campaign itself was well under way.
    Even after the nominations closed, Corbyn was a 100/1 outsider.
    Yes, if the Tory membership are in a mood for their own Corbyn they will pick Mogg whatever the pundits say. Though Mogg is already on more favourable odds than Corbyn was then.

    Having met white supremacist Steve Bannon there’s no doubt that the Moggster sees himself as the Tory Corbyn: his enemies’ enemies are his friends.

    If the choice is Corbyn or Mogg for Prime Minister, I will look to emigrate.
    And yet people will still complain that politicians are 'All the same'!
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 2,000
    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Rabb is 5th, Rudd 7th, Stewart 8th and Hunt 9th and Patel 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    Just 18% for the front runner! What a mess they are in.
    Though even Corbyn did not get more than 50% until the leadership campaign itself was well under way.
    Even after the nominations closed, Corbyn was a 100/1 outsider.
    Yes, if the Tory membership are in a mood for their own Corbyn they will pick Mogg whatever the pundits say. Though Mogg is already on more favourable odds than Corbyn was then.
    But will Tory MPs put the Moggster through to the final ballot in order to 'widen the debate'?

    Getting on the ballot is a much tougher ask with the Tory system.
    Indeed so. JRM’s chances depend on whether the next leader is to be PM or LotO. He’s no chance of the former and every chance of the latter.

    He’s also a good shout to be next Speaker.
    The Speaker role has the advantage of being one that he actually wants...
    Presumably because he wants to brings back the wig, stockings and breeches?
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 294
    RoyalBlue said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Raab is 5th, Rudd 6th, Stewart 7th and Hunt 8th and Patel 9th and Williamson 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    The cabinet Leavers are losing support because the Tory base want to know why they are not standing up to May over Brexit. If the Brexit 'deal' is as bad as the rumours and these guys do not resign, the Mogg will become the overwhelming favourite to be the next leader.

    The next two weeks are going to determine who will be PM - and I can't see it being May for long unless she somehow gets something that even looks like a concession from the EU. Not looking likely.
    Not every Brexiteer is as raging as you, Mr/Ms Archer. The vast majority of those who matter (ie Tory MPs) accept that future payments are necessary to avoid a damaging cliff edge, and we won't get what we want straight away. Even if we don't proceed to stage 2 this month, May isn't going anywhere.
    Check the polls - the public are not taking this well and, in the end, that will determine whether the Tory MPs are prepared to back May. There are more than enough Leavers who will feel strongly enough to mount a challenge if the deal starts to stink with the public.

    People can just about accept that money will have to be paid, but they are not going to accept the sellout on ECJ and NI. Sovereignty was the point of Brexit, and there is no way of spinning it when you hand it straight back to Brussels for no particular reason.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 19,105

    RoyalBlue said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Raab is 5th, Rudd 6th, Stewart 7th and Hunt 8th and Patel 9th and Williamson 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    The cabinet Leavers are losing support because the Tory base want to know why they are not standing up to May over Brexit. If the Brexit 'deal' is as bad as the rumours and these guys do not resign, the Mogg will become the overwhelming favourite to be the next leader.

    The next two weeks are going to determine who will be PM - and I can't see it being May for long unless she somehow gets something that even looks like a concession from the EU. Not looking likely.
    Not every Brexiteer is as raging as you, Mr/Ms Archer. The vast majority of those who matter (ie Tory MPs) accept that future payments are necessary to avoid a damaging cliff edge, and we won't get what we want straight away. Even if we don't proceed to stage 2 this month, May isn't going anywhere.
    Check the polls - the public are not taking this well and, in the end, that will determine whether the Tory MPs are prepared to back May. There are more than enough Leavers who will feel strongly enough to mount a challenge if the deal starts to stink with the public.

    People can just about accept that money will have to be paid, but they are not going to accept the sellout on ECJ and NI. Sovereignty was the point of Brexit, and there is no way of spinning it when you hand it straight back to Brussels for no particular reason.
    I'll wait and see what's agreed, before forming a judgement on it.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 39,452
    Mr. F, seeing what's agreed and *then* forming a judgement?! Crazy talk.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 8,837
    edited December 4
    Sean_F said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    Tim_B said:

    Pulpstar said:

    viewcode said:



    POINT 1
    A good definition of class in 2010's South-East England looks like this:

    lower working class: will never buy property, because they cannot afford it
    upper working class: buys property via mortgage, pays own deposit
    lower middle class: buys property via mortgage, relatives pay for deposit
    upper middle class: buys property outright, relatives pay for house
    upper class: will never buy property, because they will inherit

    Hmm. I don't buy property because I want someone else to look after the infrastructure while I spend my money on enjoying life. I like there being lots of BTL landlords as it gives me more choice. What class is that?
    Not sure but I can deduce a few things

    1) You most likely live in London - it has the lowest rental yields in the country.
    2) You have no pets, or small ones if any.
    3) You don't particularly have tonnes of material possessions (By weight & volume)
    The fundamental problem is not BTL, or second homes or any such thing - it is a huge lack of housing supply to meet demand, particularly in certain areas. Address that and you solve the problem.

    Yes, I know that it is an easy problem to state but by no means easy to solve. But it has been the case since the 1970s in the UK since I became a home owner there.
    It's an amazing coincidence that house prices started to rocket at exactly the same time as Tennant's rights were weakened and BTL mortgages were introduced.
    In fact, house prices crashed, shortly after rents were deregulated in 1988, although I doubt if it was cause and effect.
    Indeed, I'm more focused on the introduction of the BTL mortgage which never would have come about if not for the '88 tenancy changes.

    The defaulting of tenancys onto assured short in '97 I'm sure had an effect to.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 10,366
    edited December 4

    Survation Scottish opinion poll if you scroll through the article.

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-labours-second-chance-party-11634950

    Which of PB's numerous charmers said that choosing between the SNP & Labour was like a choice between dementia and cancer?

    It's official, the Ruth Davidson party is less popular than dementia and cancer.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 1,370
    Elliot said:

    I suspect this will affect our politics more than Brexit does over the next decade or two. Britain to become 17% Muslim by 2050.

    http://www.pewforum.org/2017/11/29/europes-growing-muslim-population/

    I mentioned this a few days ago but was met with tumbleweed. I suppose it's the combination of a) being far in the future b) raising very fundamental questions about Britain's future as a nation and c) there being no easy solutions.

    On a less disturbing but still interesting front, we are probably about 10 years away from White British births being a minority in England and Wales.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 14,976

    Good morning, everyone.

    Hmm. Nice line, though it does suggest that one party's dirty and the others are clean, which is not the case.

    What is the case is that my post-season review has a quartet of splendid graphs. Lib Dems might be excited to learn this includes two bar charts, one of which is three-dimensional:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2017/12/2017-post-season-review.html

    Mr Dancer, two programmes that may interest you. C4 showed their hour-long season review last night, and BBC News yesterday had an interview with Nico Rosberg about what he’s been up to this year.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 36,073
    RoyalBlue said:

    Elliot said:

    I suspect this will affect our politics more than Brexit does over the next decade or two. Britain to become 17% Muslim by 2050.

    http://www.pewforum.org/2017/11/29/europes-growing-muslim-population/

    I mentioned this a few days ago but was met with tumbleweed. I suppose it's the combination of a) being far in the future b) raising very fundamental questions about Britain's future as a nation and c) there being no easy solutions.

    On a less disturbing but still interesting front, we are probably about 10 years away from White British births being a minority in England and Wales.
    With the population still 90% white I doubt the latter is true outside of London where it is about 55% white
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 294
    Sean_F said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Raab is 5th, Rudd 6th, Stewart 7th and Hunt 8th and Patel 9th and Williamson 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    The cabinet Leavers are losing support because the Tory base want to know why they are not standing up to May over Brexit. If the Brexit 'deal' is as bad as the rumours and these guys do not resign, the Mogg will become the overwhelming favourite to be the next leader.

    The next two weeks are going to determine who will be PM - and I can't see it being May for long unless she somehow gets something that even looks like a concession from the EU. Not looking likely.
    Not every Brexiteer is as raging as you, Mr/Ms Archer. The vast majority of those who matter (ie Tory MPs) accept that future payments are necessary to avoid a damaging cliff edge, and we won't get what we want straight away. Even if we don't proceed to stage 2 this month, May isn't going anywhere.
    Check the polls - the public are not taking this well and, in the end, that will determine whether the Tory MPs are prepared to back May. There are more than enough Leavers who will feel strongly enough to mount a challenge if the deal starts to stink with the public.

    People can just about accept that money will have to be paid, but they are not going to accept the sellout on ECJ and NI. Sovereignty was the point of Brexit, and there is no way of spinning it when you hand it straight back to Brussels for no particular reason.
    I'll wait and see what's agreed, before forming a judgement on it.
    You are not going to get to see what was agreed, I suspect. The aim will be to make it almost impossible to know how much the UK has agreed to pay and, I suspect, it will be very hard to get a clear answer on what has been given up in respect of the ECJ.

    The ECJ is a key issue, because it actually makes no legal sense for the UKSC to be able to refer matters to the ECJ on citizens rights. The text of the agreement will be in the A50 treaty, and there is no reason that the UKSC will need to refer this to the ECJ for clarification UNLESS what is really happening is that the UK have conceded that exiting EU laws on citizens will continue to apply after Brexit (otherwise existing EU case law is not relevant to interpreting the treaty obligations so nothing would ever get referred to them). This is not a fudging of the red line, it is a massive breach. So I suspect we will get very little detail on what has actually been agreed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 36,073

    RoyalBlue said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Raab is 5th, Rudd 6th, Stewart 7th and Hunt 8th and Patel 9th and Williamson 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    The cabinet Leavers are losing support because the Tory base want to know why they are not standing up to May over Brexit. If the Brexit 'deal' is as bad as the rumours and these guys do not resign, the Mogg will become the overwhelming favourite to be the next leader.

    The next two weeks are going to determine who will be PM - and I can't see it being May for long unless she somehow gets something that even looks like a concession from the EU. Not looking likely.
    Not every Brexiteer is as raging as you, Mr/Ms Archer. The vast majority of those who matter (ie Tory MPs) accept that future payments are necessary to avoid a damaging cliff edge, and we won't get what we want straight away. Even if we don't proceed to stage 2 this month, May isn't going anywhere.
    Check the polls - the public are not taking this well and, in the end, that will determine whether the Tory MPs are prepared to back May. There are more than enough Leavers who will feel strongly enough to mount a challenge if the deal starts to stink with the public.

    People can just about accept that money will have to be paid, but they are not going to accept the sellout on ECJ and NI. Sovereignty was the point of Brexit, and there is no way of spinning it when you hand it straight back to Brussels for no particular reason.
    I doubt most people care about NI concessions or even ECJ jurisdiction on EU citizens provided free movement ends as it will under a FTA, the money is more of an issue and that is where the Tories have lost some voters to UKIP.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 19,105
    RoyalBlue said:

    Elliot said:

    I suspect this will affect our politics more than Brexit does over the next decade or two. Britain to become 17% Muslim by 2050.

    http://www.pewforum.org/2017/11/29/europes-growing-muslim-population/

    I mentioned this a few days ago but was met with tumbleweed. I suppose it's the combination of a) being far in the future b) raising very fundamental questions about Britain's future as a nation and c) there being no easy solutions.

    On a less disturbing but still interesting front, we are probably about 10 years away from White British births being a minority in England and Wales.
    17% seems like a big over-estimate to me, unless many non-Muslims convert.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 15,056
    Ben Stokes just tweeted "Balls swinging". That either needs an apostrophe - or it's just too much information, Ben.....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 36,073

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Rabb is 5th, Rudd 7th, Stewart 8th and Hunt 9th and Patel 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    Just 18% for the front runner! What a mess they are in.
    Though even Corbyn did not get more than 50% until the leadership campaign itself was well under way.
    Even after the nominations closed, Corbyn was a 100/1 outsider.
    Yes, if the Tory membership are in a mood for their own Corbyn they will pick Mogg whatever the pundits say. Though Mogg is already on more favourable odds than Corbyn was then.

    Having met white supremacist Steve Bannon there’s no doubt that the Moggster sees himself as the Tory Corbyn: his enemies’ enemies are his friends.

    Just think, the next US presidential election could be Trump v Sanders and the next UK general election could be Rees-Mogg v Corbyn!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 11,318

    RoyalBlue said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Raab is 5th, Rudd 6th, Stewart 7th and Hunt 8th and Patel 9th and Williamson 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    The cabinet Leavers are losing support because the Tory base want to know why they are not standing up to May over Brexit. If the Brexit 'deal' is as bad as the rumours and these guys do not resign, the Mogg will become the overwhelming favourite to be the next leader.

    The next two weeks are going to determine who will be PM - and I can't see it being May for long unless she somehow gets something that even looks like a concession from the EU. Not looking likely.
    Not every Brexiteer is as raging as you, Mr/Ms Archer. The vast majority of those who matter (ie Tory MPs) accept that future payments are necessary to avoid a damaging cliff edge, and we won't get what we want straight away. Even if we don't proceed to stage 2 this month, May isn't going anywhere.
    Check the polls - the public are not taking this well and, in the end, that will determine whether the Tory MPs are prepared to back May. There are more than enough Leavers who will feel strongly enough to mount a challenge if the deal starts to stink with the public.

    People can just about accept that money will have to be paid, but they are not going to accept the sellout on ECJ and NI. Sovereignty was the point of Brexit, and there is no way of spinning it when you hand it straight back to Brussels for no particular reason.
    No no. The abstract ideal of sovereignty was the point for Brexiters who don't live in the country and have the leisure and space to consider these things from their lofty perches. For the lumpen proletariat on the ground, stuck here, it was the foreigners.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 36,073

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Rabb is 5th, Rudd 7th, Stewart 8th and Hunt 9th and Patel 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    Just 18% for the front runner! What a mess they are in.
    Though even Corbyn did not get more than 50% until the leadership campaign itself was well under way.
    My MP was excitedly tweeting Liz 4% Kendall was the only realistic challenger to AB during the 1st week of the 2015 campaign. She was 2nd favourite at the time.
    Yes I think Remainers in the next Tory leadership race will be like Blairites in the last Labour leadership contest.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 1,370

    RoyalBlue said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg tops new Conservative Home Tory members poll on 18%. Gove is second on 12%, Boris third on 11%, Davis 4th on 8%. Raab is 5th, Rudd 6th, Stewart 7th and Hunt 8th and Patel 9th and Williamson 10th.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/12/next-tory-leader-our-survey-rees-mogg-leads-gove-is-second-and-none-of-the-above-still-beats-the-lot.html

    The cabinet Leavers are losing support because the Tory base want to know why they are not standing up to May over Brexit. If the Brexit 'deal' is as bad as the rumours and these guys do not resign, the Mogg will become the overwhelming favourite to be the next leader.

    The next two weeks are going to determine who will be PM - and I can't see it being May for long unless she somehow gets something that even looks like a concession from the EU. Not looking likely.
    Not every Brexiteer is as raging as you, Mr/Ms Archer. The vast majority of those who matter (ie Tory MPs) accept that future payments are necessary to avoid a damaging cliff edge, and we won't get what we want straight away. Even if we don't proceed to stage 2 this month, May isn't going anywhere.
    Check the polls - the public are not taking this well and, in the end, that will determine whether the Tory MPs are prepared to back May. There are more than enough Leavers who will feel strongly enough to mount a challenge if the deal starts to stink with the public.

    People can just about accept that money will have to be paid, but they are not going to accept the sellout on ECJ and NI. Sovereignty was the point of Brexit, and there is no way of spinning it when you hand it straight back to Brussels for no particular reason.
    Tory MPs know that reopening the leadership at this moment will be viewed far more negatively by the public than any conceivable Brexit settlement. There is no way a majority of Tory MPs would vote for a contest right now, so you are mistaken.

    I like how you say 'people' won't accept the sellout on the ECJ and NI. What percentage of the public knows what the ECJ is? How many are bothered whether NI is even part of the UK? Less than you would think in both cases.
This discussion has been closed.