Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » CON loses another seat to LDs in latest Local By-Elections

SystemSystem Posts: 3,967
edited December 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » CON loses another seat to LDs in latest Local By-Elections

Newport on North Devon (Con defence) Result: Con 373 (37% -3% on last time), Lab 83 (8%, no candidate last time) Lib Dem 390 (39% +7% on last time), Green 159 (16% -12% on last time) Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative with a majority of 17 (2%) on a swing of 5% from Con to Lib Dem

Read the full story here


«1

Comments

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,781
    First?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942
    Second!
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 3,244
    Look forward to seeing the projection for London - must be a fair bit of work compiling that.
  • FPT:


    It's here:
    ''Previously many were convinced that we are all going to be too busy playing Playstation to turn up at the polls.''

    I thought the Playstation assertion was one people were taking issue with.

    You frequently complain about others' sweeping statements. Amusingly often in posts where you're guilty of exactly the same.

    No. I'm no going to prove it. I expect enough people have seen you at it that I don't feel the need.
    Oh dear, I've touch a nerve. If my posts leave you in such distress you can avoiding read them, it's your choice. 'Enough people' have seen me at it? During my time there's only one other PBer who has spent his time complaining about my posts. I don't generally get much in thrown my way on a daily basis. If I was as much of a pariah as you imply, somehow I think I'd be getting attacked on a daily basis.

    I frequently complain about others sweeping statements? I dispute that. I've said several times before it's natural to make generalizations about your political opponents.
    You don't distress me at all. I find you very amusing. I can tell most of your posts by their hysterical style, without needing to see your name. It can get a bit tedious when you get ultra defensive about what a poster's saying you said that he said that she said. But overall I think you're pretty good value for a young cultist's viewpoint. Keep it up x
    I think the fact you had a rant at me tells me that you're rather triggered by my posts, which I apologise for. I can honestly say I don't mean to trigger you. Also, I think it's rather ironic that you would call anyone hysterical after you got prohibited from going on tangents about a certain case that's in the news. That's what I would say hysterical looks like.

    Tedious? If you find it so tedious, don't read it.

    Young cultist? What cult am I thrall in too? Pray tell? Since you're such the follower of my posts.

    By the way, I don't find you amusing. Just a bit sad. If you're a Conservative - it may be people like you why you're side doesn't do so well among those of a certain age.
    Sound like I'm enjoying PB a bit more than you.
    Nope, I enjoying reading PB overall and many there are PBers who I get on very well with, and have great discussions with.

    It sounds like you're not enjoying PB, after all can't you go around accusing foxinsoxuk of xyz anymore and all my posts have touch a nerve with you, and once again I apologise for that.

    I'm interested btw, you didn't address my question.
  • I'm very much looking forward to seeing Harry's analysis and forecast for London.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 2,352
    edited December 2017
    FPT

    HYUFD said:
    Amusing how with the past few days we have moved from Remainers, Labour, the LDs and SNP moaning about Tory 'hard Brexit' to diehard Leavers and UKIP moaning about Tory capitulation to the EU, which suggests May has got it about right

    I agree. I think she has. I don't know whether it is cleverness or an accident. It's probably like a complex physical system that wanders around all over the place but nevertheless ends up in the position of minimum energy and maximum stability without either a guiding hand or by accident.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 1,156

    I'm very much looking forward to seeing Harry's analysis and forecast for London.

    If last night's Enfield result is typical it will be very good for Labour.

    Notable that Labour picked up much more of the UKIP/BNP vote than the Tories.
  • @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.
  • Barnesian said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:
    Amusing how with the past few days we have moved from Remainers, Labour, the LDs and SNP moaning about Tory 'hard Brexit' to diehard Leavers and UKIP moaning about Tory capitulation to the EU, which suggests May has got it about right

    I agree. I think she has. I don't know whether it is cleverness or an accident. It's probably like a complex physical system that wanders around all over the place but nevertheless ends up in the position of minimum energy and maximum stability without either a guiding hand or by accident.

    I am sad that I feel that it is most likely by chance. May's mistakes in so many other areas outside of Brexit give me little faith that she actually got to this point except either by accident or because the EU genuinely want a solution that works.

    That saddens me because it shows the dearth talent or ability currently on the Right of politics. For me it is no consolation that the Left seem to be equally afflicted. I want competent government whichever colour it is.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942

    @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.

    Could be churn, lower turnout etc.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,532
    Barnesian said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:
    Amusing how with the past few days we have moved from Remainers, Labour, the LDs and SNP moaning about Tory 'hard Brexit' to diehard Leavers and UKIP moaning about Tory capitulation to the EU, which suggests May has got it about right

    I agree. I think she has. I don't know whether it is cleverness or an accident. It's probably like a complex physical system that wanders around all over the place but nevertheless ends up in the position of minimum energy and maximum stability without either a guiding hand or by accident.

    Yes whether by accident or design she has ended up in the right place
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,532
    edited December 2017

    I'm very much looking forward to seeing Harry's analysis and forecast for London.

    If last night's Enfield result is typical it will be very good for Labour.

    Notable that Labour picked up much more of the UKIP/BNP vote than the Tories.
    Though Enfield already has a big Labour majority with 39 Labour councillors to 22 for the Tories and 2 independents. The Tory vote was up in Enfield last night just the Labour vote up more
  • RobD said:

    @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.

    Could be churn, lower turnout etc.
    True, it could be an anomaly. I don't know how reliable these by-elections are in terms of indicating the wider political mood.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942

    RobD said:

    @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.

    Could be churn, lower turnout etc.
    True, it could be an anomaly. I don't know how reliable these by-elections are in terms of indicating the wider political mood.
    LDs tend to get quite excited :D
  • Barnesian said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:
    Amusing how with the past few days we have moved from Remainers, Labour, the LDs and SNP moaning about Tory 'hard Brexit' to diehard Leavers and UKIP moaning about Tory capitulation to the EU, which suggests May has got it about right

    I agree. I think she has. I don't know whether it is cleverness or an accident. It's probably like a complex physical system that wanders around all over the place but nevertheless ends up in the position of minimum energy and maximum stability without either a guiding hand or by accident.

    If May had presented today's deal to the Tory Brexiteers six months ago she would have been in big trouble. She needed to show that what has now been agreed was the best that was available. I suspect that in years to come we may find out that a fair bit of this was worked through with the EU27 - and that the hapless David Davis was something of a useful patsy while it was all happening. May has gone up greatly in my estimation. For all her faults, she has done a very good job on this.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,781
    Good grief!
    Just read Mail, Express comments (I know) re: Brexit deal.
    If they are so angry it must be a reasonable compromise.
    Big question is can May retain the Mail's support?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 19,519

    RobD said:

    @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.

    Could be churn, lower turnout etc.
    True, it could be an anomaly. I don't know how reliable these by-elections are in terms of indicating the wider political mood.
    Enfield North (especially the Eastern wards like Highway) is moving very heavily towards Labour, as owner occupiers have moved out.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.

    Could be churn, lower turnout etc.
    True, it could be an anomaly. I don't know how reliable these by-elections are in terms of indicating the wider political mood.
    LDs tend to get quite excited :D
    Yes, these by-elections have been fairly decent for them these last two weeks, it could be some false hope though. At least if the polls are anything to go by they are (I think polls were actually fairly okay with LD VI last time out),
  • dixiedean said:

    Good grief!
    Just read Mail, Express comments (I know) re: Brexit deal.
    If they are so angry it must be a reasonable compromise.
    Big question is can May retain the Mail's support?

    There was always going to be a section of Brexit opinion that would cry Betrayal whatever deal was agreed. Fear of Corbyn, though, will concentrate most minds - including those of right wing newspaper editors.

  • Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.

    Could be churn, lower turnout etc.
    True, it could be an anomaly. I don't know how reliable these by-elections are in terms of indicating the wider political mood.
    Enfield North (especially the Eastern wards like Highway) is moving very heavily towards Labour, as owner occupiers have moved out.
    Ah, thanks for that info!

    @dixiedean You read the DM AND Express comments sections? Jesus Christ, be kind to yourself! I just tend to only read one out of the DM, Telegraph, Express and Times comments' section when it comes to news. They are literally so similar these days!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.

    Could be churn, lower turnout etc.
    True, it could be an anomaly. I don't know how reliable these by-elections are in terms of indicating the wider political mood.
    Enfield North (especially the Eastern wards like Highway) is moving very heavily towards Labour, as owner occupiers have moved out.
    Ah, thanks for that info!

    @dixiedean You read the DM AND Express comments sections? Jesus Christ, be kind to yourself! I just tend to only read one out of the DM, Telegraph, Express and Times comments' section when it comes to news. They are literally so similar these days!
    The only comments section worth reading is PB. Newspaper ones are full of loons on both sides.
  • Good afternoon, everyone.

    Cheers for this Mr. Hayfield.

    Mr. D, it's true. I've yet to hear of a DM comment extolling the virtues of differential front end grip.
  • F1: meanwhile in the Democratic Republic of F1, Todt is re-elected FIA president unopposed.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/42279775
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,781

    dixiedean said:

    Good grief!
    Just read Mail, Express comments (I know) re: Brexit deal.
    If they are so angry it must be a reasonable compromise.
    Big question is can May retain the Mail's support?

    There was always going to be a section of Brexit opinion that would cry Betrayal whatever deal was agreed. Fear of Corbyn, though, will concentrate most minds - including those of right wing newspaper editors.

    That was my first thought, too. However, the Mail has just reported some terrible trading figures. Can they afford to alienate their core audience?
    What I mean is does fear of Corbyn trump fear of the P45 in the mind of Dacre?
  • RobD said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.

    Could be churn, lower turnout etc.
    True, it could be an anomaly. I don't know how reliable these by-elections are in terms of indicating the wider political mood.
    Enfield North (especially the Eastern wards like Highway) is moving very heavily towards Labour, as owner occupiers have moved out.
    Ah, thanks for that info!

    @dixiedean You read the DM AND Express comments sections? Jesus Christ, be kind to yourself! I just tend to only read one out of the DM, Telegraph, Express and Times comments' section when it comes to news. They are literally so similar these days!
    The only comments section worth reading is PB. Newspaper ones are full of loons on both sides.
    True, CIF used to be decent some years ago, now it's a bit of poo-show tbh.
  • dixiedean said:

    Good grief!
    Just read Mail, Express comments (I know) re: Brexit deal.
    If they are so angry it must be a reasonable compromise.
    Big question is can May retain the Mail's support?

    I just donned my virtual gloves and looked at the Mail's best-rated comments. Good grief indeed.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,781

    RobD said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.

    Could be churn, lower turnout etc.
    True, it could be an anomaly. I don't know how reliable these by-elections are in terms of indicating the wider political mood.
    Enfield North (especially the Eastern wards like Highway) is moving very heavily towards Labour, as owner occupiers have moved out.
    Ah, thanks for that info!

    @dixiedean You read the DM AND Express comments sections? Jesus Christ, be kind to yourself! I just tend to only read one out of the DM, Telegraph, Express and Times comments' section when it comes to news. They are literally so similar these days!
    The only comments section worth reading is PB. Newspaper ones are full of loons on both sides.
    True, CIF used to be decent some years ago, now it's a bit of poo-show tbh.
    Telegraph was good too. Right of centre but sane. That paper has really gone downhill.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 25,664
    edited December 2017
    Newspaper comments sections are tw@tter for old people.....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,623
    RobD said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.

    Could be churn, lower turnout etc.
    True, it could be an anomaly. I don't know how reliable these by-elections are in terms of indicating the wider political mood.
    Enfield North (especially the Eastern wards like Highway) is moving very heavily towards Labour, as owner occupiers have moved out.
    Ah, thanks for that info!

    @dixiedean You read the DM AND Express comments sections? Jesus Christ, be kind to yourself! I just tend to only read one out of the DM, Telegraph, Express and Times comments' section when it comes to news. They are literally so similar these days!
    The only comments section worth reading is PB. Newspaper ones are full of loons on both sides.
    Although we have a few loons on here too...
  • Verhofstadt said a lot of the parliament’s wishes had been taken into account, but named five outstanding issues to be settled, if the parliament is to give its consent before March 2019:
    [snip]
    Securing free movement rights for British nationals in the EU, allowing, for example, a Briton in Spain to move anywhere else in the EU, rather than being tied to Spain.


    ... which was what I suggested on the previous thread as a missing item. On this particular item Verhofstadt seems to be supporting the UK government's view.

    15:29
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/dec/08/brexit-border-eu-theresa-may-juncker-tusk-markets-live
  • rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.

    Could be churn, lower turnout etc.
    True, it could be an anomaly. I don't know how reliable these by-elections are in terms of indicating the wider political mood.
    Enfield North (especially the Eastern wards like Highway) is moving very heavily towards Labour, as owner occupiers have moved out.
    Ah, thanks for that info!

    @dixiedean You read the DM AND Express comments sections? Jesus Christ, be kind to yourself! I just tend to only read one out of the DM, Telegraph, Express and Times comments' section when it comes to news. They are literally so similar these days!
    The only comments section worth reading is PB. Newspaper ones are full of loons on both sides.
    Although we have a few loons on here too...
    Are those the ones that like pineapple on their pizzas?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 17,291
    edited December 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.

    Could be churn, lower turnout etc.
    True, it could be an anomaly. I don't know how reliable these by-elections are in terms of indicating the wider political mood.
    Enfield North (especially the Eastern wards like Highway) is moving very heavily towards Labour, as owner occupiers have moved out.
    Ah, thanks for that info!

    @dixiedean You read the DM AND Express comments sections? Jesus Christ, be kind to yourself! I just tend to only read one out of the DM, Telegraph, Express and Times comments' section when it comes to news. They are literally so similar these days!
    The only comments section worth reading is PB. Newspaper ones are full of loons on both sides.
    Although we have a few loons on here too...
    Yes but only on one side!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942
    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.

    Could be churn, lower turnout etc.
    True, it could be an anomaly. I don't know how reliable these by-elections are in terms of indicating the wider political mood.
    Enfield North (especially the Eastern wards like Highway) is moving very heavily towards Labour, as owner occupiers have moved out.
    Ah, thanks for that info!

    @dixiedean You read the DM AND Express comments sections? Jesus Christ, be kind to yourself! I just tend to only read one out of the DM, Telegraph, Express and Times comments' section when it comes to news. They are literally so similar these days!
    The only comments section worth reading is PB. Newspaper ones are full of loons on both sides.
    Although we have a few loons on here too...
    A good balance between loons and norms. :smiley:
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 3,244
    RobD said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.

    Could be churn, lower turnout etc.
    True, it could be an anomaly. I don't know how reliable these by-elections are in terms of indicating the wider political mood.
    Enfield North (especially the Eastern wards like Highway) is moving very heavily towards Labour, as owner occupiers have moved out.
    Ah, thanks for that info!

    @dixiedean You read the DM AND Express comments sections? Jesus Christ, be kind to yourself! I just tend to only read one out of the DM, Telegraph, Express and Times comments' section when it comes to news. They are literally so similar these days!
    The only comments section worth reading is PB. Newspaper ones are full of loons on both sides.
    Credit to the site's moderators for that.
    To avoid the internet free for all of nastyness - sometimes you have to warn/then kick people out.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942

    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.

    Could be churn, lower turnout etc.
    True, it could be an anomaly. I don't know how reliable these by-elections are in terms of indicating the wider political mood.
    Enfield North (especially the Eastern wards like Highway) is moving very heavily towards Labour, as owner occupiers have moved out.
    Ah, thanks for that info!

    @dixiedean You read the DM AND Express comments sections? Jesus Christ, be kind to yourself! I just tend to only read one out of the DM, Telegraph, Express and Times comments' section when it comes to news. They are literally so similar these days!
    The only comments section worth reading is PB. Newspaper ones are full of loons on both sides.
    Although we have a few loons on here too...
    Are those the ones that like pineapple on their pizzas?
    LOL :D
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 3,244
    Gisela Stuart has an article in Con Home decrying regulatory alignment:
    https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/12/gisela-stuart-ministers-are-mistaken-regulatory-alignment-is-single-market-membership-in-all-but-name-heres-why.html

    That to me indicates she will oppose May's deal.
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,014
    RobD said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.

    Could be churn, lower turnout etc.
    True, it could be an anomaly. I don't know how reliable these by-elections are in terms of indicating the wider political mood.
    Enfield North (especially the Eastern wards like Highway) is moving very heavily towards Labour, as owner occupiers have moved out.
    Ah, thanks for that info!

    @dixiedean You read the DM AND Express comments sections? Jesus Christ, be kind to yourself! I just tend to only read one out of the DM, Telegraph, Express and Times comments' section when it comes to news. They are literally so similar these days!
    The only comments section worth reading is PB. Newspaper ones are full of loons on both sides.
    Whereas PB is a bastion of sanity, courtesy and even-handedness. Hmmmm.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942
    edited December 2017
    rkrkrk said:

    Gisela Stuart has an article in Con Home decrying regulatory alignment:
    https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/12/gisela-stuart-ministers-are-mistaken-regulatory-alignment-is-single-market-membership-in-all-but-name-heres-why.html

    That to me indicates she will oppose May's deal.

    This deal doesn’t get voted on individually, and I think regulatory alignment would only be if there isn’t a FTA.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 11,628
    edited December 2017
    Whenever I get the urge to be nasty or rude, I just play Airbag on my iPod and all my angry thoughts just melt away.
  • dixiedean said:

    Good grief!
    Just read Mail, Express comments (I know) re: Brexit deal.
    If they are so angry it must be a reasonable compromise.
    Big question is can May retain the Mail's support?

    I just donned my virtual gloves and looked at the Mail's best-rated comments. Good grief indeed.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,623

    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.

    Could be churn, lower turnout etc.
    True, it could be an anomaly. I don't know how reliable these by-elections are in terms of indicating the wider political mood.
    Enfield North (especially the Eastern wards like Highway) is moving very heavily towards Labour, as owner occupiers have moved out.
    Ah, thanks for that info!

    @dixiedean You read the DM AND Express comments sections? Jesus Christ, be kind to yourself! I just tend to only read one out of the DM, Telegraph, Express and Times comments' section when it comes to news. They are literally so similar these days!
    The only comments section worth reading is PB. Newspaper ones are full of loons on both sides.
    Although we have a few loons on here too...
    Yes but only on one side!
    Oh, I don't know there are a few "any deal of any kind would be a betrayal" (archer101au for example) loons on here...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 15,410
    felix said:

    RobD said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.

    Could be churn, lower turnout etc.
    True, it could be an anomaly. I don't know how reliable these by-elections are in terms of indicating the wider political mood.
    Enfield North (especially the Eastern wards like Highway) is moving very heavily towards Labour, as owner occupiers have moved out.
    Ah, thanks for that info!

    @dixiedean You read the DM AND Express comments sections? Jesus Christ, be kind to yourself! I just tend to only read one out of the DM, Telegraph, Express and Times comments' section when it comes to news. They are literally so similar these days!
    The only comments section worth reading is PB. Newspaper ones are full of loons on both sides.
    Whereas PB is a bastion of sanity, courtesy and even-handedness. Hmmmm.
    But it can be quite witty too. Show me a comments section that is witty....
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 16,538
    rkrkrk said:

    Gisela Stuart has an article in Con Home decrying regulatory alignment:
    https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/12/gisela-stuart-ministers-are-mistaken-regulatory-alignment-is-single-market-membership-in-all-but-name-heres-why.html

    That to me indicates she will oppose May's deal.

    If you read it the thrust is she wants clarification that we wont end up where Ukraine is.

    People will interpret fudge how they wish - all the way to the final deal.
  • rkrkrk said:

    Gisela Stuart has an article in Con Home decrying regulatory alignment:
    https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/12/gisela-stuart-ministers-are-mistaken-regulatory-alignment-is-single-market-membership-in-all-but-name-heres-why.html

    That to me indicates she will oppose May's deal.

    She's a complete and utter irrelevance.

  • PongPong Posts: 4,616
    edited December 2017
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/08/right-to-buy-homes-owned-private-landlords

    70% of Right-to-buy council houses in Milton Keynes are now buy-to-lets.

    Thatchers property owning democracy has eaten itself.
  • felix said:

    RobD said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.

    Could be churn, lower turnout etc.
    True, it could be an anomaly. I don't know how reliable these by-elections are in terms of indicating the wider political mood.
    Enfield North (especially the Eastern wards like Highway) is moving very heavily towards Labour, as owner occupiers have moved out.
    Ah, thanks for that info!

    @dixiedean You read the DM AND Express comments sections? Jesus Christ, be kind to yourself! I just tend to only read one out of the DM, Telegraph, Express and Times comments' section when it comes to news. They are literally so similar these days!
    The only comments section worth reading is PB. Newspaper ones are full of loons on both sides.
    Whereas PB is a bastion of sanity, courtesy and even-handedness. Hmmmm.
    But it can be quite witty too. Show me a comments section that is witty....
    The Radiohead fans forum? ;-)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,781
    rkrkrk said:

    Gisela Stuart has an article in Con Home decrying regulatory alignment:
    https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/12/gisela-stuart-ministers-are-mistaken-regulatory-alignment-is-single-market-membership-in-all-but-name-heres-why.html

    That to me indicates she will oppose May's deal.

    She isn't an MP any more though.
  • Also off topic, had no idea that Dominic Sandbrook was (or at least he appears to be) right leaning. Up to now I’d only watched his docs on the BBC, but his DM columns, shall we say, take a very different (very Daily-Mail esque) tone.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 3,244
    Pong said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/08/right-to-buy-homes-owned-private-landlords

    70% of Right-to-buy council houses in Milton Keynes are now buy-to-lets.

    Thatchers property owning democracy has eaten itself.

    Wow.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 16,538
    Pong said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/08/right-to-buy-homes-owned-private-landlords

    70% of Right-to-buy council houses in Milton Keynes are now buy-to-lets.

    Thatchers property owning democracy has eaten itself.

    Taxation policy (or lack of) over the intervening period has encouraged this - the stable door has been nudged in the last couple of budgets but horse long gone.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 15,939
    TGOHF said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Gisela Stuart has an article in Con Home decrying regulatory alignment:
    https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/12/gisela-stuart-ministers-are-mistaken-regulatory-alignment-is-single-market-membership-in-all-but-name-heres-why.html

    That to me indicates she will oppose May's deal.

    If you read it the thrust is she wants clarification that we wont end up where Ukraine is.
    Ruled over by corrupt oligarchs under the influence of Russia?
  • FPT

    What are you doing for the cause of unity?

    Why on earth would I want to encourage unity with those who are utterly unrepentant about stirring up xenophobia with wicked lies?

    It is, of course, a problem for those who want to make Brexit a success. Oddly, this is the group that seem most disinclined to consider how to address the problem.
    I don't see anyone here wanting to stir up xenophobia with wicked lies. When the wicked xenophobic posters like Farage's Breaking Point poster they were roundly condemned by all but the most extreme Kippers. Both here and in wider politics.
    76 million Turks are not joining the EU.
    Why on earth not, considering that at the time of the vote Turks, the UK government and the EU government were all saying they were.

    If anyone was full of xenophobic lies it was our government and the EU stringing along the Turks with promises of membership if they never had any intention of honouring their promises.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 3,244
    dixiedean said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Gisela Stuart has an article in Con Home decrying regulatory alignment:
    https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/12/gisela-stuart-ministers-are-mistaken-regulatory-alignment-is-single-market-membership-in-all-but-name-heres-why.html

    That to me indicates she will oppose May's deal.

    She isn't an MP any more though.
    huh - i somehow missed that...
  • Pong said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/08/right-to-buy-homes-owned-private-landlords

    70% of Right-to-buy council houses in Milton Keynes are now buy-to-lets.

    Thatchers property owning democracy has eaten itself.

    Maybe tenants should be given a right to buy off their landlord?
  • FPT

    What are you doing for the cause of unity?

    Why on earth would I want to encourage unity with those who are utterly unrepentant about stirring up xenophobia with wicked lies?

    It is, of course, a problem for those who want to make Brexit a success. Oddly, this is the group that seem most disinclined to consider how to address the problem.
    I don't see anyone here wanting to stir up xenophobia with wicked lies. When the wicked xenophobic posters like Farage's Breaking Point poster they were roundly condemned by all but the most extreme Kippers. Both here and in wider politics.
    76 million Turks are not joining the EU.
    Why on earth not, considering that at the time of the vote Turks, the UK government and the EU government were all saying they were.

    If anyone was full of xenophobic lies it was our government and the EU stringing along the Turks with promises of membership if they never had any intention of honouring their promises.
    Turkey was not joining the EU. You know that, I know that, the dogs that bark in the street know that. You campaigned under a poster that was a direct untruth told to whip up fears of Muslim immigrants.
  • rkrkrk said:

    Gisela Stuart has an article in Con Home decrying regulatory alignment:
    https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/12/gisela-stuart-ministers-are-mistaken-regulatory-alignment-is-single-market-membership-in-all-but-name-heres-why.html

    That to me indicates she will oppose May's deal.

    She's a complete and utter irrelevance.

    I remember finding this about her http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1475512/Anti-Kerry-remarks-by-Labour-MP-put-Blair-on-the-spot.html
    and thinking, wow you’re a bit odd for someone who is a member of a centre left party aren’t you?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 16,538

    TGOHF said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Gisela Stuart has an article in Con Home decrying regulatory alignment:
    https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/12/gisela-stuart-ministers-are-mistaken-regulatory-alignment-is-single-market-membership-in-all-but-name-heres-why.html

    That to me indicates she will oppose May's deal.

    If you read it the thrust is she wants clarification that we wont end up where Ukraine is.
    Ruled over by corrupt oligarchs under the influence of Russia?
    Well I think we could all agree that wouldn't be optimal.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 16,538

    Pong said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/08/right-to-buy-homes-owned-private-landlords

    70% of Right-to-buy council houses in Milton Keynes are now buy-to-lets.

    Thatchers property owning democracy has eaten itself.

    Maybe tenants should be given a right to buy off their landlord?
    Dare I say it that might be a good policy - minimum 10 years as tenant or so ?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 16,538
    How many privatised company shares like BT, British Gas etc are still owned by little old ladies ?

    If RTB tenants sold up and moved then they still prospered. Also people dying doesn't help those figures.

    Problem is the BTL was a very attractive investment for a long period.
  • Ms. Apocalypse, to be expected, though. Stuff I write often has reasonably explicit violence, but when writing for a certain online magazine I tone it down quite a lot because that fits the site's general approach.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942

    FPT

    What are you doing for the cause of unity?

    Why on earth would I want to encourage unity with those who are utterly unrepentant about stirring up xenophobia with wicked lies?

    It is, of course, a problem for those who want to make Brexit a success. Oddly, this is the group that seem most disinclined to consider how to address the problem.
    I don't see anyone here wanting to stir up xenophobia with wicked lies. When the wicked xenophobic posters like Farage's Breaking Point poster they were roundly condemned by all but the most extreme Kippers. Both here and in wider politics.
    76 million Turks are not joining the EU.
    Why on earth not, considering that at the time of the vote Turks, the UK government and the EU government were all saying they were.

    If anyone was full of xenophobic lies it was our government and the EU stringing along the Turks with promises of membership if they never had any intention of honouring their promises.
    Turkey was not joining the EU. You know that, I know that, the dogs that bark in the street know that. You campaigned under a poster that was a direct untruth told to whip up fears of Muslim immigrants.
    No one told Turkey. Look how much activity there was relating to this:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union
  • TGOHF said:

    Pong said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/08/right-to-buy-homes-owned-private-landlords

    70% of Right-to-buy council houses in Milton Keynes are now buy-to-lets.

    Thatchers property owning democracy has eaten itself.

    Maybe tenants should be given a right to buy off their landlord?
    Dare I say it that might be a good policy - minimum 10 years as tenant or so ?
    Thus guaranteeing that no tenant could stay a long time.
  • TGOHF said:

    How many privatised company shares like BT, British Gas etc are still owned by little old ladies ?

    If RTB tenants sold up and moved then they still prospered. Also people dying doesn't help those figures.

    Problem is the BTL was a very attractive investment for a long period.

    While at the same time lots of other investments have been very unattractive / poorly performing.
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,014

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    @anothernick Given that Corbyn was supposed to a pariah that fraction of voters, that's interesting.

    Could be churn, lower turnout etc.
    True, it could be an anomaly. I don't know how reliable these by-elections are in terms of indicating the wider political mood.
    Enfield North (especially the Eastern wards like Highway) is moving very heavily towards Labour, as owner occupiers have moved out.
    Ah, thanks for that info!

    @dixiedean You read the DM AND Express comments sections? Jesus Christ, be kind to yourself! I just tend to only read one out of the DM, Telegraph, Express and Times comments' section when it comes to news. They are literally so similar these days!
    The only comments section worth reading is PB. Newspaper ones are full of loons on both sides.
    Whereas PB is a bastion of sanity, courtesy and even-handedness. Hmmmm.
    But it can be quite witty too. Show me a comments section that is witty....
    True.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942
    TGOHF said:

    Pong said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/08/right-to-buy-homes-owned-private-landlords

    70% of Right-to-buy council houses in Milton Keynes are now buy-to-lets.

    Thatchers property owning democracy has eaten itself.

    Maybe tenants should be given a right to buy off their landlord?
    Dare I say it that might be a good policy - minimum 10 years as tenant or so ?
    Or maybe link help to buy with years of tenancy. The ten year thing will just encourage landlords to kick them out at nine.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,623
    As an aside, has anyone else mentioned that the Brexit bill includes payments during the two year transition period. Given that we would probably be paying £10bn a year for each year of the transition, that means the real bill is actually only about £20bn.
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,014
    edited December 2017

    FPT

    What are you doing for the cause of unity?

    Why on earth would I want to encourage unity with those who are utterly unrepentant about stirring up xenophobia with wicked lies?

    It is, of course, a problem for those who want to make Brexit a success. Oddly, this is the group that seem most disinclined to consider how to address the problem.
    I don't see anyone here wanting to stir up xenophobia with wicked lies. When the wicked xenophobic posters like Farage's Breaking Point poster they were roundly condemned by all but the most extreme Kippers. Both here and in wider politics.
    76 million Turks are not joining the EU.
    Why on earth not, considering that at the time of the vote Turks, the UK government and the EU government were all saying they were.

    If anyone was full of xenophobic lies it was our government and the EU stringing along the Turks with promises of membership if they never had any intention of honouring their promises.
    Turkey was not joining the EU. You know that, I know that, the dogs that bark in the street know that. You campaigned under a poster that was a direct untruth told to whip up fears of Muslim immigrants.
    Of course there are plenty of xenophobes already in the EU - say in, to take an entirely random example out of the air, Hungary.
  • RobD said:

    FPT

    What are you doing for the cause of unity?

    Why on earth would I want to encourage unity with those who are utterly unrepentant about stirring up xenophobia with wicked lies?

    It is, of course, a problem for those who want to make Brexit a success. Oddly, this is the group that seem most disinclined to consider how to address the problem.
    I don't see anyone here wanting to stir up xenophobia with wicked lies. When the wicked xenophobic posters like Farage's Breaking Point poster they were roundly condemned by all but the most extreme Kippers. Both here and in wider politics.
    76 million Turks are not joining the EU.
    Why on earth not, considering that at the time of the vote Turks, the UK government and the EU government were all saying they were.

    If anyone was full of xenophobic lies it was our government and the EU stringing along the Turks with promises of membership if they never had any intention of honouring their promises.
    Turkey was not joining the EU. You know that, I know that, the dogs that bark in the street know that. You campaigned under a poster that was a direct untruth told to whip up fears of Muslim immigrants.
    No one told Turkey. Look how much activity there was relating to this:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union
    You're only fooling yourself. By 2016 Turkey's application was dead in the water and widely recognised as such.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,623

    FPT

    What are you doing for the cause of unity?

    Why on earth would I want to encourage unity with those who are utterly unrepentant about stirring up xenophobia with wicked lies?

    It is, of course, a problem for those who want to make Brexit a success. Oddly, this is the group that seem most disinclined to consider how to address the problem.
    I don't see anyone here wanting to stir up xenophobia with wicked lies. When the wicked xenophobic posters like Farage's Breaking Point poster they were roundly condemned by all but the most extreme Kippers. Both here and in wider politics.
    76 million Turks are not joining the EU.
    Why on earth not, considering that at the time of the vote Turks, the UK government and the EU government were all saying they were.

    If anyone was full of xenophobic lies it was our government and the EU stringing along the Turks with promises of membership if they never had any intention of honouring their promises.
    I always felt the chance of the Greek Cypriots voting for Turkish membership was the real kicker.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 6,321
    edited December 2017

    Ms. Apocalypse, to be expected, though. Stuff I write often has reasonably explicit violence, but when writing for a certain online magazine I tone it down quite a lot because that fits the site's general approach.

    Ah, okay. It’s just that seeing his docs and reading his columns, if you didn’t know who written them, you’d think it was literally another person. I’ve never come across another historian where that’s been the case. When Niall Ferguson writes articles for say, The Times it’s not a million miles away from his docs.

    Edit: he’s not a historian, but Giles Coran is another one who comes off totally different on Twitter, in comparison to when he presents back in time for dinner.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 16,538

    TGOHF said:

    Pong said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/08/right-to-buy-homes-owned-private-landlords

    70% of Right-to-buy council houses in Milton Keynes are now buy-to-lets.

    Thatchers property owning democracy has eaten itself.

    Maybe tenants should be given a right to buy off their landlord?
    Dare I say it that might be a good policy - minimum 10 years as tenant or so ?
    Thus guaranteeing that no tenant could stay a long time.
    Mm ok - how about if a property is sold then any tenant with X years has first option to buy at an independently assessed price ?

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 16,538

    RobD said:

    FPT

    What are you doing for the cause of unity?

    Why on earth would I want to encourage unity with those who are utterly unrepentant about stirring up xenophobia with wicked lies?

    It is, of course, a problem for those who want to make Brexit a success. Oddly, this is the group that seem most disinclined to consider how to address the problem.
    I don't see anyone here wanting to stir up xenophobia with wicked lies. When the wicked xenophobic posters like Farage's Breaking Point poster they were roundly condemned by all but the most extreme Kippers. Both here and in wider politics.
    76 million Turks are not joining the EU.
    Why on earth not, considering that at the time of the vote Turks, the UK government and the EU government were all saying they were.

    If anyone was full of xenophobic lies it was our government and the EU stringing along the Turks with promises of membership if they never had any intention of honouring their promises.
    Turkey was not joining the EU. You know that, I know that, the dogs that bark in the street know that. You campaigned under a poster that was a direct untruth told to whip up fears of Muslim immigrants.
    No one told Turkey. Look how much activity there was relating to this:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union
    You're only fooling yourself. By 2016 Turkey's application was dead in the water and widely recognised as such.
    But not officially.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 15,410
    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, has anyone else mentioned that the Brexit bill includes payments during the two year transition period. Given that we would probably be paying £10bn a year for each year of the transition, that means the real bill is actually only about £20bn.

    And we are paying that 20 billion at about a tenner a week....
  • FPT

    What are you doing for the cause of unity?

    Why on earth would I want to encourage unity with those who are utterly unrepentant about stirring up xenophobia with wicked lies?

    It is, of course, a problem for those who want to make Brexit a success. Oddly, this is the group that seem most disinclined to consider how to address the problem.
    I don't see anyone here wanting to stir up xenophobia with wicked lies. When the wicked xenophobic posters like Farage's Breaking Point poster they were roundly condemned by all but the most extreme Kippers. Both here and in wider politics.
    76 million Turks are not joining the EU.
    Why on earth not, considering that at the time of the vote Turks, the UK government and the EU government were all saying they were.

    If anyone was full of xenophobic lies it was our government and the EU stringing along the Turks with promises of membership if they never had any intention of honouring their promises.
    Turkey was not joining the EU. You know that, I know that, the dogs that bark in the street know that. You campaigned under a poster that was a direct untruth told to whip up fears of Muslim immigrants.
    I don't know that, I supported Turkish accession actually and I think it was a despicable lie to say that they could join if they were not really allowed to. Why not, because they're not white, or because they're Muslim? Is the EU that racist that we can't have a nation of a different race or religion as a member?

    That you support this xenophobia as perfectly acceptable is worrying.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 25,664
    edited December 2017

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, has anyone else mentioned that the Brexit bill includes payments during the two year transition period. Given that we would probably be paying £10bn a year for each year of the transition, that means the real bill is actually only about £20bn.

    And we are paying that 20 billion at about a tenner a week....
    Did Bright House negotiate this deal? And when do I get my 55" 4k OLED tv?

    I personally think we should have created BritCoin and done an ICO...all the mugs that have bought into CryptoKitties would have lapped it up.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,781

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, has anyone else mentioned that the Brexit bill includes payments during the two year transition period. Given that we would probably be paying £10bn a year for each year of the transition, that means the real bill is actually only about £20bn.

    And we are paying that 20 billion at about a tenner a week....
    Did Bright House negotiate this deal?
    HM insisted upon it.
  • FPT

    What are you doing for the cause of unity?

    Why on earth would I want to encourage unity with those who are utterly unrepentant about stirring up xenophobia with wicked lies?

    It is, of course, a problem for those who want to make Brexit a success. Oddly, this is the group that seem most disinclined to consider how to address the problem.
    I don't see anyone here wanting to stir up xenophobia with wicked lies. When the wicked xenophobic posters like Farage's Breaking Point poster they were roundly condemned by all but the most extreme Kippers. Both here and in wider politics.
    76 million Turks are not joining the EU.
    Why on earth not, considering that at the time of the vote Turks, the UK government and the EU government were all saying they were.

    If anyone was full of xenophobic lies it was our government and the EU stringing along the Turks with promises of membership if they never had any intention of honouring their promises.
    Turkey was not joining the EU. You know that, I know that, the dogs that bark in the street know that. You campaigned under a poster that was a direct untruth told to whip up fears of Muslim immigrants.
    I don't know that, I supported Turkish accession actually and I think it was a despicable lie to say that they could join if they were not really allowed to. Why not, because they're not white, or because they're Muslim? Is the EU that racist that we can't have a nation of a different race or religion as a member?

    That you support this xenophobia as perfectly acceptable is worrying.
    Turkey's application was dead in the water in large part because it had turned its back on the democratic norms required of EU member states.

    The xenophobia came from those, such as yourself, who were happy to whip up fears of millions of Muslims descending on Britain through Turkey joining the EU.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 17,291
    edited December 2017
    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Pong said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/08/right-to-buy-homes-owned-private-landlords

    70% of Right-to-buy council houses in Milton Keynes are now buy-to-lets.

    Thatchers property owning democracy has eaten itself.

    Maybe tenants should be given a right to buy off their landlord?
    Dare I say it that might be a good policy - minimum 10 years as tenant or so ?
    Thus guaranteeing that no tenant could stay a long time.
    Mm ok - how about if a property is sold then any tenant with X years has first option to buy at an independently assessed price ?

    Nah, won't fly. The folk memory of the horrors of the 1970s is still too searing. No landlord would take the risk. After all, the tenant can already offer to buy at the market rate, so any such idea would rightly be interpreted as a step to partial confiscation.

    The truth is that every attempt to interfere with the market makes it worse. The most useful reform would be to make it easier to have long tenancies to give tenants more security. This is best done by promoting professional landlord companies, and especially large-scale build-to-let by pension funds etc, who (unlike private landlords) won't need to keep flexibility to get repossession of the property in case their personal circumstances change. The government does seem to be making some progress on this, but it's still a tiny part of the market.

    The other important change is to make it easier to enforce contracts. We hear a lot about rogue landlords, but there are a lot of rogue tenants - which is an important reason why landlords want to be able to chuck them out. No one wants to chuck out a good tenant unless they need the property back themselves.
  • FPT

    What are you doing for the cause of unity?

    Why on earth would I want to encourage unity with those who are utterly unrepentant about stirring up xenophobia with wicked lies?

    It is, of course, a problem for those who want to make Brexit a success. Oddly, this is the group that seem most disinclined to consider how to address the problem.
    I don't see anyone here wanting to stir up xenophobia with wicked lies. When the wicked xenophobic posters like Farage's Breaking Point poster they were roundly condemned by all but the most extreme Kippers. Both here and in wider politics.
    76 million Turks are not joining the EU.
    Why on earth not, considering that at the time of the vote Turks, the UK government and the EU government were all saying they were.

    If anyone was full of xenophobic lies it was our government and the EU stringing along the Turks with promises of membership if they never had any intention of honouring their promises.
    Turkey was not joining the EU. You know that, I know that, the dogs that bark in the street know that. You campaigned under a poster that was a direct untruth told to whip up fears of Muslim immigrants.
    I don't know that, I supported Turkish accession actually and I think it was a despicable lie to say that they could join if they were not really allowed to. Why not, because they're not white, or because they're Muslim? Is the EU that racist that we can't have a nation of a different race or religion as a member?

    That you support this xenophobia as perfectly acceptable is worrying.
    Turkey's application was dead in the water in large part because it had turned its back on the democratic norms required of EU member states.

    The xenophobia came from those, such as yourself, who were happy to whip up fears of millions of Muslims descending on Britain through Turkey joining the EU.
    That's a lie.

    Turkey's application was dead in the water when it turned its back on democratic norms at the time of the coup and the repression afterwards which occured after the referendum.

    Prior to the referendum it was still the official policy of this nation and the EU as a whole to say that the Turks could join. Was our government lying to the Turks when they said they could join?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 15,410



    That's a lie.

    Turkey's application was dead in the water when it turned its back on democratic norms at the time of the coup and the repression afterwards which occured after the referendum.

    Prior to the referendum it was still the official policy of this nation and the EU as a whole to say that the Turks could join. Was our government lying to the Turks when they said they could join?

    One of the most brazen - because it is so easily disproved - of the Remainer lies.
  • rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    What are you doing for the cause of unity?

    Why on earth would I want to encourage unity with those who are utterly unrepentant about stirring up xenophobia with wicked lies?

    It is, of course, a problem for those who want to make Brexit a success. Oddly, this is the group that seem most disinclined to consider how to address the problem.
    I don't see anyone here wanting to stir up xenophobia with wicked lies. When the wicked xenophobic posters like Farage's Breaking Point poster they were roundly condemned by all but the most extreme Kippers. Both here and in wider politics.
    76 million Turks are not joining the EU.
    Why on earth not, considering that at the time of the vote Turks, the UK government and the EU government were all saying they were.

    If anyone was full of xenophobic lies it was our government and the EU stringing along the Turks with promises of membership if they never had any intention of honouring their promises.
    I always felt the chance of the Greek Cypriots voting for Turkish membership was the real kicker.
    I always viewed Greek Cypriots as like Ulster Unionists. They would be holdouts against an unconditional deal but once the deal was imminent they would make damned sure to get a sweetener or their demands met before giving it the greenlight.

    If as part of the package of Turkish accession was an agreement to see Cypriot reunification then the Greek Cypriots would have voted in favour of that.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 18,063
    edited December 2017



    That's a lie.

    Turkey's application was dead in the water when it turned its back on democratic norms at the time of the coup and the repression afterwards which occured after the referendum.

    Prior to the referendum it was still the official policy of this nation and the EU as a whole to say that the Turks could join. Was our government lying to the Turks when they said they could join?

    https://fullfact.org/europe/turkey-likely-join-eu/

    "In brief: Turkey is a candidate to join the EU. But it’s unlikely to join any time soon. There are tensions to be resolved over Cyprus before aspects of the negotiation can even be opened, and the EU has concerns over Turkey’s human rights record. If and when the negotiations finish, Turkey must get approval to join from each existing EU member. Some are opposed to, or planning to hold a referendum on, Turkish membership. Support for membership among the Turkish population has declined since 2010."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/15/the-guardian-view-on-turkey-and-europe-separating-facts-from-fiction

    "Turkey’s accession to the European club may be a promise made in 1963, but there is no prospect of it ever happening – despite what Brexiters claim"

    https://www.ft.com/content/72956a5c-242a-11e6-9d4d-c11776a5124d

    "What British Eurosceptics do not understand is that Turkey is no longer the country it was more than a decade ago, when it was eager to join the EU. In May [2016], Mr Erdogan told the EU, “We’ll go our way, you go yours.” "
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 779
    rkrkrk said:

    Pong said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/08/right-to-buy-homes-owned-private-landlords

    70% of Right-to-buy council houses in Milton Keynes are now buy-to-lets.

    Thatchers property owning democracy has eaten itself.

    Wow.
    I can't tell you how frustrating it is. We have to house statutory homeless families in hotels as far away as Luton and St Neots. Even those in temporary accommodation are often in totally unsuitable properties for the family size (too small or nowhere near the kids' school.)

    If you walk through the underpasses in Central Milton Keynes there is the shameful sight of tents of people with nowhere else to go.

    We are building new council houses. We've signed leases to provide high volume temporary accommodation in MK. We have invested in a £10m property fund. We've even commissioned new modular (i.e. flat-pack) housing to act as temporary housing while we deal with the spike we have.

    And how does the Government help us? Any exception to right to buy? No chance. As you say, it's just fuelled a right to buy boom across our older estates. Are we included on the list of Councils who can lift their borrowing cap to invest in further houses? Nope (we genuinely suspect that it may be different if we had a Tory council)

    I try to be as non-partisan as I can, but it is difficult here. The Government doesn't give any indication that it understands or really cares about our housing problems. And our Tory MPs are good at warm words but have showed no willingness to rock the boat or really cause a fuss. With hindsight, it's no real surprise they both nearly got kicked out in June when we all thought both MK seats were safe (and the Tories were all sent to Coventry ha ha)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 2,126
    tpfkar said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Pong said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/08/right-to-buy-homes-owned-private-landlords

    70% of Right-to-buy council houses in Milton Keynes are now buy-to-lets.

    Thatchers property owning democracy has eaten itself.

    Wow.
    I can't tell you how frustrating it is. We have to house statutory homeless families in hotels as far away as Luton and St Neots. Even those in temporary accommodation are often in totally unsuitable properties for the family size (too small or nowhere near the kids' school.)

    If you walk through the underpasses in Central Milton Keynes there is the shameful sight of tents of people with nowhere else to go.

    We are building new council houses. We've signed leases to provide high volume temporary accommodation in MK. We have invested in a £10m property fund. We've even commissioned new modular (i.e. flat-pack) housing to act as temporary housing while we deal with the spike we have.

    And how does the Government help us? Any exception to right to buy? No chance. As you say, it's just fuelled a right to buy boom across our older estates. Are we included on the list of Councils who can lift their borrowing cap to invest in further houses? Nope (we genuinely suspect that it may be different if we had a Tory council)

    I try to be as non-partisan as I can, but it is difficult here. The Government doesn't give any indication that it understands or really cares about our housing problems. And our Tory MPs are good at warm words but have showed no willingness to rock the boat or really cause a fuss. With hindsight, it's no real surprise they both nearly got kicked out in June when we all thought both MK seats were safe (and the Tories were all sent to Coventry ha ha)
    +1 for this. This is what the Tories need to listen to if they want to have any chance of surviving the next election.
  • Mr. tpfkar, it's a knotty problem.

    What if central government imposed a rule whereby it paid a (small) certain sum to a council every year for every council house it has? That would encourage councils to build more, no?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942



    That's a lie.

    Turkey's application was dead in the water when it turned its back on democratic norms at the time of the coup and the repression afterwards which occured after the referendum.

    Prior to the referendum it was still the official policy of this nation and the EU as a whole to say that the Turks could join. Was our government lying to the Turks when they said they could join?

    https://fullfact.org/europe/turkey-likely-join-eu/

    "In brief: Turkey is a candidate to join the EU. But it’s unlikely to join any time soon. There are tensions to be resolved over Cyprus before aspects of the negotiation can even be opened, and the EU has concerns over Turkey’s human rights record. If and when the negotiations finish, Turkey must get approval to join from each existing EU member. Some are opposed to, or planning to hold a referendum on, Turkish membership. Support for membership among the Turkish population has declined since 2010."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/15/the-guardian-view-on-turkey-and-europe-separating-facts-from-fiction

    "Turkey’s accession to the European club may be a promise made in 1963, but there is no prospect of it ever happening – despite what Brexiters claim"

    https://www.ft.com/content/72956a5c-242a-11e6-9d4d-c11776a5124d

    "What British Eurosceptics do not understand is that Turkey is no longer the country it was more than a decade ago, when it was eager to join the EU. In May [2016], Mr Erdogan told the EU, “We’ll go our way, you go yours.” "
    If there was no prospect of it ever happening, why did they expend all that effort in screening/opening chapters etc.?
  • RobD said:



    That's a lie.

    Turkey's application was dead in the water when it turned its back on democratic norms at the time of the coup and the repression afterwards which occured after the referendum.

    Prior to the referendum it was still the official policy of this nation and the EU as a whole to say that the Turks could join. Was our government lying to the Turks when they said they could join?

    https://fullfact.org/europe/turkey-likely-join-eu/

    "In brief: Turkey is a candidate to join the EU. But it’s unlikely to join any time soon. There are tensions to be resolved over Cyprus before aspects of the negotiation can even be opened, and the EU has concerns over Turkey’s human rights record. If and when the negotiations finish, Turkey must get approval to join from each existing EU member. Some are opposed to, or planning to hold a referendum on, Turkish membership. Support for membership among the Turkish population has declined since 2010."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/15/the-guardian-view-on-turkey-and-europe-separating-facts-from-fiction

    "Turkey’s accession to the European club may be a promise made in 1963, but there is no prospect of it ever happening – despite what Brexiters claim"

    https://www.ft.com/content/72956a5c-242a-11e6-9d4d-c11776a5124d

    "What British Eurosceptics do not understand is that Turkey is no longer the country it was more than a decade ago, when it was eager to join the EU. In May [2016], Mr Erdogan told the EU, “We’ll go our way, you go yours.” "
    If there was no prospect of it ever happening, why did they expend all that effort in screening/opening chapters etc.?
    Because no one is blessed with 20/20 foresight. If they were, political betting markets would be a cinch.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 564
    RobD said:
    Isn't something like one meeeellion bitcoin held by "Satoshi Nakamoto" him-/her- self? It's generally considered to be "lost" but perhaps it might turn up one of these days, probably right before the whole scheme goes bust.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 2,126
    edited December 2017

    Mr. tpfkar, it's a knotty problem.

    What if central government imposed a rule whereby it paid a (small) certain sum to a council every year for every council house it has? That would encourage councils to build more, no?

    Build more? What with?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942
    rpjs said:

    RobD said:
    Isn't something like one meeeellion bitcoin held by "Satoshi Nakamoto" him-/her- self? It's generally considered to be "lost" but perhaps it might turn up one of these days, probably right before the whole scheme goes bust.
    Yeah, those coins haven’t moved... yet.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 844
    rpjs said:

    RobD said:
    Isn't something like one meeeellion bitcoin held by "Satoshi Nakamoto" him-/her- self? It's generally considered to be "lost" but perhaps it might turn up one of these days, probably right before the whole scheme goes bust.
    Satoshi is widely believed to be Hal Finney, who died in 2014. He has been cryogenically preserved though so he may come back one day!
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 8,848
    So far no resignations. Perhaps the government might not fall by Christmas after all.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,623
    RobD said:



    That's a lie.

    Turkey's application was dead in the water when it turned its back on democratic norms at the time of the coup and the repression afterwards which occured after the referendum.

    Prior to the referendum it was still the official policy of this nation and the EU as a whole to say that the Turks could join. Was our government lying to the Turks when they said they could join?

    https://fullfact.org/europe/turkey-likely-join-eu/

    "In brief: Turkey is a candidate to join the EU. But it’s unlikely to join any time soon. There are tensions to be resolved over Cyprus before aspects of the negotiation can even be opened, and the EU has concerns over Turkey’s human rights record. If and when the negotiations finish, Turkey must get approval to join from each existing EU member. Some are opposed to, or planning to hold a referendum on, Turkish membership. Support for membership among the Turkish population has declined since 2010."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/15/the-guardian-view-on-turkey-and-europe-separating-facts-from-fiction

    "Turkey’s accession to the European club may be a promise made in 1963, but there is no prospect of it ever happening – despite what Brexiters claim"

    https://www.ft.com/content/72956a5c-242a-11e6-9d4d-c11776a5124d

    "What British Eurosceptics do not understand is that Turkey is no longer the country it was more than a decade ago, when it was eager to join the EU. In May [2016], Mr Erdogan told the EU, “We’ll go our way, you go yours.” "
    If there was no prospect of it ever happening, why did they expend all that effort in screening/opening chapters etc.?
    Accession requires a treaty signed by every member. The moment that Cyprus joined the EU, Turkey's chance dropped to near zero. (That's probably also true of Poland and Hungary too.)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 25,664
    edited December 2017
    kyf_100 said:

    rpjs said:

    RobD said:
    Isn't something like one meeeellion bitcoin held by "Satoshi Nakamoto" him-/her- self? It's generally considered to be "lost" but perhaps it might turn up one of these days, probably right before the whole scheme goes bust.
    Satoshi is widely believed to be Hal Finney, who died in 2014. He has been cryogenically preserved though so he may come back one day!
    I think it is more accurate to say that Hal Finney is widely believed to have been involved. If he was the only person is another matter.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 3,244
    tpfkar said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Pong said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/08/right-to-buy-homes-owned-private-landlords

    70% of Right-to-buy council houses in Milton Keynes are now buy-to-lets.

    Thatchers property owning democracy has eaten itself.

    Wow.
    I can't tell you how frustrating it is. We have to house statutory homeless families in hotels as far away as Luton and St Neots. Even those in temporary accommodation are often in totally unsuitable properties for the family size (too small or nowhere near the kids' school.)

    If you walk through the underpasses in Central Milton Keynes there is the shameful sight of tents of people with nowhere else to go.

    We are building new council houses. We've signed leases to provide high volume temporary accommodation in MK. We have invested in a £10m property fund. We've even commissioned new modular (i.e. flat-pack) housing to act as temporary housing while we deal with the spike we have.

    And how does the Government help us? Any exception to right to buy? No chance. As you say, it's just fuelled a right to buy boom across our older estates. Are we included on the list of Councils who can lift their borrowing cap to invest in further houses? Nope (we genuinely suspect that it may be different if we had a Tory council)

    I try to be as non-partisan as I can, but it is difficult here. The Government doesn't give any indication that it understands or really cares about our housing problems. And our Tory MPs are good at warm words but have showed no willingness to rock the boat or really cause a fuss. With hindsight, it's no real surprise they both nearly got kicked out in June when we all thought both MK seats were safe (and the Tories were all sent to Coventry ha ha)
    Really interesting insight - thanks for sharing.
    Seems a clearcut example of unintended consequences no one would be particularly keen on.

    70% absolutely stunned me.


  • That's a lie.

    Turkey's application was dead in the water when it turned its back on democratic norms at the time of the coup and the repression afterwards which occured after the referendum.

    Prior to the referendum it was still the official policy of this nation and the EU as a whole to say that the Turks could join. Was our government lying to the Turks when they said they could join?

    https://fullfact.org/europe/turkey-likely-join-eu/

    "In brief: Turkey is a candidate to join the EU. But it’s unlikely to join any time soon. There are tensions to be resolved over Cyprus before aspects of the negotiation can even be opened, and the EU has concerns over Turkey’s human rights record. If and when the negotiations finish, Turkey must get approval to join from each existing EU member. Some are opposed to, or planning to hold a referendum on, Turkish membership. Support for membership among the Turkish population has declined since 2010."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/15/the-guardian-view-on-turkey-and-europe-separating-facts-from-fiction

    "Turkey’s accession to the European club may be a promise made in 1963, but there is no prospect of it ever happening – despite what Brexiters claim"

    https://www.ft.com/content/72956a5c-242a-11e6-9d4d-c11776a5124d

    "What British Eurosceptics do not understand is that Turkey is no longer the country it was more than a decade ago, when it was eager to join the EU. In May [2016], Mr Erdogan told the EU, “We’ll go our way, you go yours.” "
    Funny how all these "Turkey won't join" remarks only came about AFTER Turkish accession came into the debate. Find a speech by Cameron etc prior to Vote Leave making Turkish accession an issue saying that the Turks weren't welcome. Because until that point the opposite was being said.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 1,352
    Pong said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/08/right-to-buy-homes-owned-private-landlords

    70% of Right-to-buy council houses in Milton Keynes are now buy-to-lets.

    Thatchers property owning democracy has eaten itself.

    That worked out well then, didn`t it? At least from the point of view of the Tory hidden agenda.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 15,939

    Prior to the referendum it was still the official policy of this nation and the EU as a whole to say that the Turks could join. Was our government lying to the Turks when they said they could join?

    It's finally sunk in why Leavers struggle to understand the realities of the Turkish situation. It seems entirely natural to them that Turkey could have its cake and eat it, and that the EU would be happy to facilitate this.
This discussion has been closed.