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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Farage’s man’s refusal to admit defeat means Betfair Alabama p

SystemSystem Posts: 3,967
edited December 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Farage’s man’s refusal to admit defeat means Betfair Alabama punters won’t get their winnings this side of Xmas

It is now 5 days since the white supremacist, Roy Moore, lost the special election in Alabama for the US Senate.

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,623
    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 8,728
    FPT:

    Cheap modern books are badly produced. The paper doesn't have sufficient rag and then bindings are most often glued, rather than sewn.

    Recommend private press books if people want books to last.

    *Dusts the shelf of sixteenth century books in leather bindings and perfect condition*
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,532
    edited December 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

    Eton, along with Harrow, Winchester and Westminster is considered to be one of the top 4 public schools (and Eton probably the most academic of those). So an Eton and Oxbridge education is considered the best you can have in the UK so it is no surprise so many with that background have become PM.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,532
    Even Trump has conceded Alabama so Moore will eventually have to bow to the inevitable
  • I think my bank balance can wait for the £10
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 9,830
    TBF I suppose Betfair can't make generous assumptions like, say, Paddypower, because it has customers on both sides of the bets. Perhaps there's a punter with £10K on Moore still hoping who would sue Betfair if they decided he'd lost before it was official.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942
    Sad
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,044
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

    Eton, along with Harrow, Winchester and Westminster is considered to be one of the top 4 public schools (and Eton probably the most academic of those). So an Eton and Oxbridge education is considered the best you can have in the UK so it is no surprise so many with that background have become PM.
    It is a surprise it so many, even being the best. It's such a high proportion.

    On topic, he's Farage''s man? Cheeky.

    Seriously though, are Moore's views really what Farage supports? He's been in the wrong country.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 8,728
    Are we expecting polling tonight?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 15,939
    Mortimer said:

    Are we expecting polling tonight?

    Record high for Sinn Fein in this one.

  • "there is no suggestion anywhere that the result can be overturned"

    Well, it CAN be overturned. It's not yet certified, there are military ballots which could theoretically put it in recount territory, and the Moore team claim voting irregularities.

    The issue is more whether it WILL be overturned, which does look so vanishingly unlikely that people (and President) aren't interested in it and the debate has moved on to the 51-49 Senate.

    The result does change the dynamics of national politics a fair bit. There are a handful of swing voters in the Senate - Collins, Murkowski, McCain, Corker, Flake. Perming two of those is a hell of a lot easier than three.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,044

    Mortimer said:

    Are we expecting polling tonight?

    Record high for Sinn Fein in this one.

    Ugh.
  • kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

    Eton, along with Harrow, Winchester and Westminster is considered to be one of the top 4 public schools (and Eton probably the most academic of those). So an Eton and Oxbridge education is considered the best you can have in the UK so it is no surprise so many with that background have become PM.
    It is a surprise it so many, even being the best. It's such a high proportion.

    On topic, he's Farage''s man? Cheeky.

    Seriously though, are Moore's views really what Farage supports? He's been in the wrong country.
    Moore is just acting like Farage did at the Oldham by-election in the last parliament. Remember his squealing after UKIP's failure in that election and all the talk of a challenge to the result which, of course, never came
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,532
    edited December 2017
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

    Eton, along with Harrow, Winchester and Westminster is considered to be one of the top 4 public schools (and Eton probably the most academic of those). So an Eton and Oxbridge education is considered the best you can have in the UK so it is no surprise so many with that background have become PM.
    It is a surprise it so many, even being the best. It's such a high proportion.

    On topic, he's Farage''s man? Cheeky.

    Seriously though, are Moore's views really what Farage supports? He's been in the wrong country.
    Cameron was the first Etonian PM since Home though in 1964, Churchill was the last Harrovian PM. Earl Russell was the last PM from Westminster (though Clegg was also educated there as a Deputy PM) and Henry Addington the last PM from Winchester and you have to go back to the 19th century for them.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,044

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

    Eton, along with Harrow, Winchester and Westminster is considered to be one of the top 4 public schools (and Eton probably the most academic of those). So an Eton and Oxbridge education is considered the best you can have in the UK so it is no surprise so many with that background have become PM.
    It is a surprise it so many, even being the best. It's such a high proportion.

    On topic, he's Farage''s man? Cheeky.

    Seriously though, are Moore's views really what Farage supports? He's been in the wrong country.
    Moore is just acting like Farage did at the Oldham by-election in the last parliament. Remember his squealing after UKIP's failure in that election and all the talk of a challenge to the result which, of course, never came
    I was thinking more of Moore's political views, not the refusal to concede. In all honesty outside of Brexit I'm not confident in what Farage's views even are.
  • TBF I suppose Betfair can't make generous assumptions like, say, Paddypower, because it has customers on both sides of the bets. Perhaps there's a punter with £10K on Moore still hoping who would sue Betfair if they decided he'd lost before it was official.

    Yes, I'm waiting for £100 but I don't think Betfair are being unreasonable here, for the reason stated, and we have had surprise reversals before.

    Moore on the other hand is being a dick. But then if he wasn't one, he probably wouldn't have lost.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,532

    Mortimer said:

    Are we expecting polling tonight?

    Record high for Sinn Fein in this one.

    So DUP still ahead then despite everything and the suspension, plus of course SF can only work with the DUP under the GFA.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 15,516

    TBF I suppose Betfair can't make generous assumptions like, say, Paddypower, because it has customers on both sides of the bets. Perhaps there's a punter with £10K on Moore still hoping who would sue Betfair if they decided he'd lost before it was official.

    Yes, it’s the fundamental difference between a traditional bookie and an exchange.

    Paddy can (and do) write off early payouts on the “wrong” side of a bet to a marketing budget somewhere, but it’s their own money to spend as they please. Betfair are dealing in other people’s money on both sides of the event.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,532
    5* have a 3% lead for May's Italian general election

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/941837751124504577
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,623
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

    Eton, along with Harrow, Winchester and Westminster is considered to be one of the top 4 public schools (and Eton probably the most academic of those). So an Eton and Oxbridge education is considered the best you can have in the UK so it is no surprise so many with that background have become PM.
    What about St Paul's?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,532
    60% of Germans oppose a United States of Europe by 2025

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/939560995269349377
  • HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Are we expecting polling tonight?

    Record high for Sinn Fein in this one.

    So DUP still ahead then despite everything and the suspension, plus of course SF can only work with the DUP under the GFA.
    Adams is making a pitch for the let's-join-the-Republic-and-stay-in-the-EU vote. Can't see it happening but might be worth a couple of percentage points in the polls.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,532
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

    Eton, along with Harrow, Winchester and Westminster is considered to be one of the top 4 public schools (and Eton probably the most academic of those). So an Eton and Oxbridge education is considered the best you can have in the UK so it is no surprise so many with that background have become PM.
    What about St Paul's?
    St Paul's is first division rather than premier league like those 4, hence Osborne was dangled out of a window by his legs at the Bullingdon Club while at Oxford for being an oik.
  • Mr. HYUFD, bad form to wrap up the date and the concept in a single question.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,532
    edited December 2017

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Are we expecting polling tonight?

    Record high for Sinn Fein in this one.

    So DUP still ahead then despite everything and the suspension, plus of course SF can only work with the DUP under the GFA.
    Adams is making a pitch for the let's-join-the-Republic-and-stay-in-the-EU vote. Can't see it happening but might be worth a couple of percentage points in the polls.
    I expect almost all those who back that are already voting Sinn Fein though there might still be a handful voting SDLP
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 15,516
    edited December 2017
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

    Eton, along with Harrow, Winchester and Westminster is considered to be one of the top 4 public schools (and Eton probably the most academic of those). So an Eton and Oxbridge education is considered the best you can have in the UK so it is no surprise so many with that background have become PM.
    What about St Paul's?
    St Paul's is first division rather than premier league like those 4, hence Osborne was dangled out of a window by his legs at the Bullingdon Club while at Oxford for being an oik.
    And 30 years later was thrown out of the back door of 10 Downing St for being a c***

    *hides from TSE* :tongue:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,532

    Mr. HYUFD, bad form to wrap up the date and the concept in a single question.

    Blame the pollster
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,208
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

    Of course they are very smart (about 35-40% go to Oxbridge with another 10% going to Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Berkeley.

    But you wouldn't want to be thought to have to try
  • Mr. HYUFD, ahem, I didn't mean to suggest I was blaming you :p
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,532

    Mr. HYUFD, ahem, I didn't mean to suggest I was blaming you :p

    No worries
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 4,259
    edited December 2017
    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Are we expecting polling tonight?

    Record high for Sinn Fein in this one.

    So DUP still ahead then despite everything and the suspension, plus of course SF can only work with the DUP under the GFA.
    Adams is making a pitch for the let's-join-the-Republic-and-stay-in-the-EU vote. Can't see it happening but might be worth a couple of percentage points in the polls.
    I expect almost all those who back that are already voting Sinn Fein though there might still be a handful voting SDLP
    My impression from a recent visit to NI is slightly different, and based largely on the young having rather different attitudes to us old folk.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,208
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

    Eton, along with Harrow, Winchester and Westminster is considered to be one of the top 4 public schools (and Eton probably the most academic of those). So an Eton and Oxbridge education is considered the best you can have in the UK so it is no surprise so many with that background have become PM.
    Wrong. Simply wrong. You have a tediously definitive style when you don't know that of which you speak.

    Winchester is the most academic - and that is a feeder for Cambridge*, the more academic university. Eton and Oxford students are ferociously bright but are trained in rhetoric and logic not academics. That's why you get so many politicians from Eton and Oxford and comparatively few from Winchester and Cambridge.

    * it amuses me that when the Winchester/New and Eton/Kings links became too controversial they simply swapped - Eton is now a feeder to New and Winchester to Kings
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,623
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

    Eton, along with Harrow, Winchester and Westminster is considered to be one of the top 4 public schools (and Eton probably the most academic of those). So an Eton and Oxbridge education is considered the best you can have in the UK so it is no surprise so many with that background have become PM.
    Wrong. Simply wrong. You have a tediously definitive style when you don't know that of which you speak.

    Winchester is the most academic - and that is a feeder for Cambridge*, the more academic university. Eton and Oxford students are ferociously bright but are trained in rhetoric and logic not academics. That's why you get so many politicians from Eton and Oxford and comparatively few from Winchester and Cambridge.

    * it amuses me that when the Winchester/New and Eton/Kings links became too controversial they simply swapped - Eton is now a feeder to New and Winchester to Kings
    Is Winchester more academic than Westminster?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,208
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

    Eton, along with Harrow, Winchester and Westminster is considered to be one of the top 4 public schools (and Eton probably the most academic of those). So an Eton and Oxbridge education is considered the best you can have in the UK so it is no surprise so many with that background have become PM.
    Wrong. Simply wrong. You have a tediously definitive style when you don't know that of which you speak.

    Winchester is the most academic - and that is a feeder for Cambridge*, the more academic university. Eton and Oxford students are ferociously bright but are trained in rhetoric and logic not academics. That's why you get so many politicians from Eton and Oxford and comparatively few from Winchester and Cambridge.

    * it amuses me that when the Winchester/New and Eton/Kings links became too controversial they simply swapped - Eton is now a feeder to New and Winchester to Kings
    Is Winchester more academic than Westminster?
    Vastly so - in culture and focus
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,208
    I've just ordered a pizza with pineapple
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 9,830
    HYUFD said:

    5* have a 3% lead for May's Italian general election

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/941837751124504577

    Tricky forming a coalition with those figures - 31% each for left and right, and 24% for the maverick 5* who are disliked by both left and right.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 9,830
    HYUFD said:

    60% of Germans oppose a United States of Europe by 2025

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/939560995269349377

    In 8 years! Even I'd hesitate about abolishing all 28 countries that soon. I think 32% in favour is quite an impressive score. I wonder what % would favour it as a long-term aspiration.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 9,830



    Yes, I'm waiting for £100 but I don't think Betfair are being unreasonable here, for the reason stated, and we have had surprise reversals before.

    Moore on the other hand is being a dick. But then if he wasn't one, he probably wouldn't have lost.

    Lol! Well put.
  • The Tories are seen as more divided than Labour by voters, according to the final Opinium/Observer poll of 2017.

    Almost half of voters see the Conservatives as disunited (47%) compared with the 40% who see Labour as split.

    The findings come after a bruising period for Theresa May’s party over Brexit. The division were exposed last week when 11 Tory MPs rebelled in a vote over the role parliament should have in approving the final Brexit deal.

    Overall Labour holds a two-point lead over the Tories. Labour is down one point on a month ago at 42% while the Tories are also down one point on 39%.

    The Liberal Democrats and Ukip are both up one point on 7% and 6% respectively.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/16/brexit-row-leaves-voters-thinking-tories-are-more-divided-than-labour
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 61,059
    edited December 2017
    Charles said:

    I've just ordered a pizza with pineapple

    BAN THIS SICK FILTH!!!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,271

    TBF I suppose Betfair can't make generous assumptions like, say, Paddypower, because it has customers on both sides of the bets. Perhaps there's a punter with £10K on Moore still hoping who would sue Betfair if they decided he'd lost before it was official.

    Yes, I'm waiting for £100 but I don't think Betfair are being unreasonable here, for the reason stated, and we have had surprise reversals before.

    Moore on the other hand is being a dick. But then if he wasn't one, he probably wouldn't have lost.
    +1

    It only costs a tiny proportion of your winnings to cash out now, insuring yourself against any funny business.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,208

    Charles said:

    I've just ordered a pizza with pineapple

    BAN THIS SICK FILTH!!!
    My daughter just said "I didn't know you were allowed to do that"
  • The Tories are seen as more divided than Labour by voters, according to the final Opinium/Observer poll of 2017.

    Almost half of voters see the Conservatives as disunited (47%) compared with the 40% who see Labour as split.

    The findings come after a bruising period for Theresa May’s party over Brexit. The division were exposed last week when 11 Tory MPs rebelled in a vote over the role parliament should have in approving the final Brexit deal.

    Overall Labour holds a two-point lead over the Tories. Labour is down one point on a month ago at 42% while the Tories are also down one point on 39%.

    The Liberal Democrats and Ukip are both up one point on 7% and 6% respectively.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/16/brexit-row-leaves-voters-thinking-tories-are-more-divided-than-labour

    Hardly surprising as the conservatives are under the media spotlight and labour's divisions are not relevant at present.

    Also labour is down one to 41% not 42%
  • Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

    Eton, along with Harrow, Winchester and Westminster is considered to be one of the top 4 public schools (and Eton probably the most academic of those). So an Eton and Oxbridge education is considered the best you can have in the UK so it is no surprise so many with that background have become PM.
    Wrong. Simply wrong. You have a tediously definitive style when you don't know that of which you speak.

    Winchester is the most academic - and that is a feeder for Cambridge*, the more academic university. Eton and Oxford students are ferociously bright but are trained in rhetoric and logic not academics. That's why you get so many politicians from Eton and Oxford and comparatively few from Winchester and Cambridge.

    * it amuses me that when the Winchester/New and Eton/Kings links became too controversial they simply swapped - Eton is now a feeder to New and Winchester to Kings
    Eton and Winchester. Winchester and Eton. Would it be too mischievous to remind pb that both these fine schools were this year implicated in A-level scandals where teachers leaked questions to pupils?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,271

    The Tories are seen as more divided than Labour by voters, according to the final Opinium/Observer poll of 2017.

    Almost half of voters see the Conservatives as disunited (47%) compared with the 40% who see Labour as split.

    The findings come after a bruising period for Theresa May’s party over Brexit. The division were exposed last week when 11 Tory MPs rebelled in a vote over the role parliament should have in approving the final Brexit deal.

    Overall Labour holds a two-point lead over the Tories. Labour is down one point on a month ago at 42% while the Tories are also down one point on 39%.

    The Liberal Democrats and Ukip are both up one point on 7% and 6% respectively.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/16/brexit-row-leaves-voters-thinking-tories-are-more-divided-than-labour

    The two main parties slipping, although clearly within MOE. Labour is, for the time being, fudging its differences so that its MPs and supporters can look into both fields from their perch on the fence, whilst the Tories remain more exposed.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,271

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

    Eton, along with Harrow, Winchester and Westminster is considered to be one of the top 4 public schools (and Eton probably the most academic of those). So an Eton and Oxbridge education is considered the best you can have in the UK so it is no surprise so many with that background have become PM.
    Wrong. Simply wrong. You have a tediously definitive style when you don't know that of which you speak.

    Winchester is the most academic - and that is a feeder for Cambridge*, the more academic university. Eton and Oxford students are ferociously bright but are trained in rhetoric and logic not academics. That's why you get so many politicians from Eton and Oxford and comparatively few from Winchester and Cambridge.

    * it amuses me that when the Winchester/New and Eton/Kings links became too controversial they simply swapped - Eton is now a feeder to New and Winchester to Kings
    Eton and Winchester. Winchester and Eton. Would it be too mischievous to remind pb that both these fine schools were this year implicated in A-level scandals where teachers leaked questions to pupils?
    That is taking education way too literally.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 2,126

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

    Eton, along with Harrow, Winchester and Westminster is considered to be one of the top 4 public schools (and Eton probably the most academic of those). So an Eton and Oxbridge education is considered the best you can have in the UK so it is no surprise so many with that background have become PM.
    Wrong. Simply wrong. You have a tediously definitive style when you don't know that of which you speak.

    Winchester is the most academic - and that is a feeder for Cambridge*, the more academic university. Eton and Oxford students are ferociously bright but are trained in rhetoric and logic not academics. That's why you get so many politicians from Eton and Oxford and comparatively few from Winchester and Cambridge.

    * it amuses me that when the Winchester/New and Eton/Kings links became too controversial they simply swapped - Eton is now a feeder to New and Winchester to Kings
    Eton and Winchester. Winchester and Eton. Would it be too mischievous to remind pb that both these fine schools were this year implicated in A-level scandals where teachers leaked questions to pupils?
    It's just their way of ensuring value for money!
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 3,459
    I can't pretend that I don't find current political developments depressing but it's nice to hear from Tony Blair in this season of goodwill saying he thinks it is important that Labour wins the next election. Not his number one priority (remaining in the EU) but important nonetheless that Comrade Corbyn gets to form a government.

    LOL.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,208

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

    Eton, along with Harrow, Winchester and Westminster is considered to be one of the top 4 public schools (and Eton probably the most academic of those). So an Eton and Oxbridge education is considered the best you can have in the UK so it is no surprise so many with that background have become PM.
    Wrong. Simply wrong. You have a tediously definitive style when you don't know that of which you speak.

    Winchester is the most academic - and that is a feeder for Cambridge*, the more academic university. Eton and Oxford students are ferociously bright but are trained in rhetoric and logic not academics. That's why you get so many politicians from Eton and Oxford and comparatively few from Winchester and Cambridge.

    * it amuses me that when the Winchester/New and Eton/Kings links became too controversial they simply swapped - Eton is now a feeder to New and Winchester to Kings
    Eton and Winchester. Winchester and Eton. Would it be too mischievous to remind pb that both these fine schools were this year implicated in A-level scandals where teachers leaked questions to pupils?
    That's not what happened at Eton.

    One of the teachers shared information with other teachers. None of them passed it on to the pupils. The teacher was sacked
  • HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

    Eton, along with Harrow, Winchester and Westminster is considered to be one of the top 4 public schools (and Eton probably the most academic of those). So an Eton and Oxbridge education is considered the best you can have in the UK so it is no surprise so many with that background have become PM.
    Isn't Harrow considered a bit of a dump these days? As tim, formerly of this parish, used to remark, you don't even have to pass an entrance exam. So it's the place for rich thickos.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,623
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

    Eton, along with Harrow, Winchester and Westminster is considered to be one of the top 4 public schools (and Eton probably the most academic of those). So an Eton and Oxbridge education is considered the best you can have in the UK so it is no surprise so many with that background have become PM.
    Wrong. Simply wrong. You have a tediously definitive style when you don't know that of which you speak.

    Winchester is the most academic - and that is a feeder for Cambridge*, the more academic university. Eton and Oxford students are ferociously bright but are trained in rhetoric and logic not academics. That's why you get so many politicians from Eton and Oxford and comparatively few from Winchester and Cambridge.

    * it amuses me that when the Winchester/New and Eton/Kings links became too controversial they simply swapped - Eton is now a feeder to New and Winchester to Kings
    Eton and Winchester. Winchester and Eton. Would it be too mischievous to remind pb that both these fine schools were this year implicated in A-level scandals where teachers leaked questions to pupils?
    That's not what happened at Eton.

    One of the teachers shared information with other teachers. None of them passed it on to the pupils. The teacher was sacked
    For not passing it on to the pupils?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,208
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

    Eton, along with Harrow, Winchester and Westminster is considered to be one of the top 4 public schools (and Eton probably the most academic of those). So an Eton and Oxbridge education is considered the best you can have in the UK so it is no surprise so many with that background have become PM.
    Wrong. Simply wrong. You have a tediously definitive style when you don't know that of which you speak.

    Winchester is the most academic - and that is a feeder for Cambridge*, the more academic university. Eton and Oxford students are ferociously bright but are trained in rhetoric and logic not academics. That's why you get so many politicians from Eton and Oxford and comparatively few from Winchester and Cambridge.

    * it amuses me that when the Winchester/New and Eton/Kings links became too controversial they simply swapped - Eton is now a feeder to New and Winchester to Kings
    Eton and Winchester. Winchester and Eton. Would it be too mischievous to remind pb that both these fine schools were this year implicated in A-level scandals where teachers leaked questions to pupils?
    That's not what happened at Eton.

    One of the teachers shared information with other teachers. None of them passed it on to the pupils. The teacher was sacked
    For not passing it on to the pupils?
    He had written the paper and breached security by discussed with other teachers
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 17,926
    Charles said:

    I've just ordered a pizza with pineapple

    Rebel with a cause.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 4,234

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    When I went to Cambridge from my state school, the Old Etonians I met were very smart indeed.

    Also this:

    Eton, along with Harrow, Winchester and Westminster is considered to be one of the top 4 public schools (and Eton probably the most academic of those). So an Eton and Oxbridge education is considered the best you can have in the UK so it is no surprise so many with that background have become PM.
    Isn't Harrow considered a bit of a dump these days? As tim, formerly of this parish, used to remark, you don't even have to pass an entrance exam. So it's the place for rich thickos.
    The relationship between the 3 schools is perfectly captured in the old joke: there are 3 men and 1 woman somewhere (doesn't matter where). The Etonian suggests the lady might like a chair, the Wykehamist fetches it, and the Harrovian sits on it.
  • Spurs and english cricket..... perfect correlation forever.
  • I don’t know if this was posted earlier on, but just saw an Independent article on it. Couldn’t copy the link from that article so I found a tweet linking to the story from Sky News:



  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 17,926

    Spurs and english cricket..... perfect correlation forever.

    You’ll get me wishing they can win a game then.

    But the EPL has never been like this. It’s a procession. I don’t think you need to be a United fan to regret it.
  • So, if i stick a fiver on Gemma Atkinson, am I going to win some money, TSE?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,942
    Charles said:

    I've just ordered a pizza with pineapple

    A pizza and a pineapple? You must be hungry :)
  • IanB2 said:

    TBF I suppose Betfair can't make generous assumptions like, say, Paddypower, because it has customers on both sides of the bets. Perhaps there's a punter with £10K on Moore still hoping who would sue Betfair if they decided he'd lost before it was official.

    Yes, I'm waiting for £100 but I don't think Betfair are being unreasonable here, for the reason stated, and we have had surprise reversals before.

    Moore on the other hand is being a dick. But then if he wasn't one, he probably wouldn't have lost.
    +1

    It only costs a tiny proportion of your winnings to cash out now, insuring yourself against any funny business.
    Thanks IanB2 but I did that as soon as I heard Moore wasn't conceding. I'm one of the old-stagers around here and remember Ohio.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 3,459
    Pizza with pineapple.

    Is the pineapple on the pizza or is it a side dish? Nice to Charles enjoys a bit of peasant food.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 10,714
    edited December 2017

    I don’t know if this was posted earlier on, but just saw an Independent article on it. Couldn’t copy the link from that article so I found a tweet linking to the story from Sky News:



    Hammond being tackless and getting the Brexiteers upset.

    I am sure that is where we will end up but it needs to be a process.
  • TomsToms Posts: 1,453
    Charles, I find that pineapple goes with just about everything, especially ham.

    Less importantly, for science and Maths:

    Cambridge is a great place to be a post-grad or an academic. Ghosts of great academics lurk everywhere---check out the statue of Newton in the Trinity chapel---but it is is a bleak place to be trampled by tourists.

    Cal Tech is academically challenging and quite a test. Strangely its locale is relatively provincial.

    MIT is great also in economics. Its location teems culturally.

    Of the three, MIT manages to mix homeyness with global excellence.
  • HYUFD said:

    60% of Germans oppose a United States of Europe by 2025

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/939560995269349377

    In 8 years! Even I'd hesitate about abolishing all 28 countries that soon. I think 32% in favour is quite an impressive score. I wonder what % would favour it as a long-term aspiration.
    I've alsways fancied it as a long-term aspiration but then I had in mind something like fifty to a hundred years, by which time I would have long since been beyond caring.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,044

    HYUFD said:

    60% of Germans oppose a United States of Europe by 2025

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/939560995269349377

    In 8 years! Even I'd hesitate about abolishing all 28 countries that soon. I think 32% in favour is quite an impressive score. I wonder what % would favour it as a long-term aspiration.
    I've alsways fancied it as a long-term aspiration but then I had in mind something like fifty to a hundred years, by which time I would have long since been beyond caring.
    I've never been opposed to the dream of a more united Europe, I just have deep reservations in what the current version looks like and lost hope it would ever improve in a manner personally acceptable to me.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 15,939

    I don’t know if this was posted earlier on, but just saw an Independent article on it. Couldn’t copy the link from that article so I found a tweet linking to the story from Sky News:



    Hammond being tackless and getting the Brexiteers upset.

    I am sure that is where we will end up but it needs to be a process.
    It’s been government policy since the Florence speech.
  • I don’t know if this was posted earlier on, but just saw an Independent article on it. Couldn’t copy the link from that article so I found a tweet linking to the story from Sky News:



    Hammond being tackless and getting the Brexiteers upset.

    I am sure that is where we will end up but it needs to be a process.
    It’s been government policy since the Florence speech.
    Yes but winding up the Brexiteers from China is not good politics
  • kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    60% of Germans oppose a United States of Europe by 2025

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/939560995269349377

    In 8 years! Even I'd hesitate about abolishing all 28 countries that soon. I think 32% in favour is quite an impressive score. I wonder what % would favour it as a long-term aspiration.
    I've alsways fancied it as a long-term aspiration but then I had in mind something like fifty to a hundred years, by which time I would have long since been beyond caring.
    I've never been opposed to the dream of a more united Europe, I just have deep reservations in what the current version looks like and lost hope it would ever improve in a manner personally acceptable to me.
    My doubts about the direction of the EU project were sufficiently deep that even I, long-standing europhile that I am, seriously hesitated before voting Remain. But as a long-term aspiration European consolidation still seems to me a worthwhile goal, especially given recent trends in the USA and China.
  • I don’t know if this was posted earlier on, but just saw an Independent article on it. Couldn’t copy the link from that article so I found a tweet linking to the story from Sky News:



    Hammond being tackless and getting the Brexiteers upset.

    I am sure that is where we will end up but it needs to be a process.
    I'm astonished at how tin-earred Hammond is with rather basic political skills.
  • HYUFD said:

    60% of Germans oppose a United States of Europe by 2025

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/939560995269349377

    In 8 years! Even I'd hesitate about abolishing all 28 countries that soon. I think 32% in favour is quite an impressive score. I wonder what % would favour it as a long-term aspiration.
    At least you're honest about abolishing the 28 countries.

    Brexiteers normally get called foaming or swivel-eyed when they point that out.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,463
    Evening all :)

    To link the Opinium poll and the previous thread (with thanks as always to David H), perceptions are often more important than but not necessarily related to realities. I suspect the Conservatives are well aware of the first rule of politics which is that if you don't hang together you'll all hang separately.

    Disunity or the perception of disunity was, I believe, a key factor in the disastrous 92-97 Major Government but that was exacerbated by the equally inaccurate perception that, after four election victories and the miracle of 92, the party could do what it liked and still win.

    We see the same now - Corbyn acts as a shield for the Conservatives and re-enforces the belief of those supporters who assert it doesn't matter how disunited the party appears, it will always win against Corbyn.

    Perhaps but no Party has a divine right to rule - long periods of Conservative and Labour rule have come to ruinous ends having at times looked immortal. To simply assume that the public will always go for the Devil they know is naive and foolish.

    Wilson in 64, Thatcher in 79 and Blair in 97 were all to a greater or lesser extent untried and untested. All were doubted because of their perceived inexperience and all faced experienced if not long-serving Prime Ministers (neither Home nor Callaghan had been in office three years).

    To assume people won't Labour because of Corbyn would be foolish - they might vote Labour because after a dozen years (assuming it will be 2022) they will be tired of the Conservatives (despite numerous re-inventions and re-brandings) being in power and even the Conservatives will be tired of being in power (even though that's basically all they do).

    If I were Corbyn or Labour, I'd be trying to build my blueprint of a post-EU 2020s Britain and trying to figure out what will work for the majority of people. That demands radical thinking but offers non-ideological alternatives which can be sold to the electorate.
  • kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    60% of Germans oppose a United States of Europe by 2025

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/939560995269349377

    In 8 years! Even I'd hesitate about abolishing all 28 countries that soon. I think 32% in favour is quite an impressive score. I wonder what % would favour it as a long-term aspiration.
    I've alsways fancied it as a long-term aspiration but then I had in mind something like fifty to a hundred years, by which time I would have long since been beyond caring.
    I've never been opposed to the dream of a more united Europe, I just have deep reservations in what the current version looks like and lost hope it would ever improve in a manner personally acceptable to me.
    I am opposed to it both in principle and practice. What is the dream of europhiles is my nightmare.

    I think the pursuit of single global government is a terrible idea, and as naive and foolhardy as that of world socialism.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,417

    So, if i stick a fiver on Gemma Atkinson, am I going to win some money, TSE?

    Depends on where you stick it on her I guess.
  • The headline figures are driven by 2016 referendum non-voters:

    “However, readers should note that digging deeper into the data reveals that this shift has come predominantly from those who did not actually vote in the 2016 referendum, with around nine in ten Leave and Remain voters still unchanged in their view.

    “Our polling suggests that about a year ago, those who did not vote in the referendum were broadly split, but today’s poll shows that they are now overwhelmingly in favour of remaining in the EU, by a margin of more than four to one.”
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 9,830

    HYUFD said:

    60% of Germans oppose a United States of Europe by 2025

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/939560995269349377

    In 8 years! Even I'd hesitate about abolishing all 28 countries that soon. I think 32% in favour is quite an impressive score. I wonder what % would favour it as a long-term aspiration.
    At least you're honest about abolishing the 28 countries.

    Brexiteers normally get called foaming or swivel-eyed when they point that out.
    Yes, but I'm not a typical Remainer. It's swivel-eyed when one depicts all Remainers or all Continentals as being like that.
  • The strictly panel seem to be coalescing around making everyone virtually the same.

    There must be bigger variations and it doesn't seem right to me but then I do not follow strictly
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 9,830
    I think you're mistaken, if that remains the direction of travel. Labour will evolve with public opinion, because the leadership has no strong preference (that's why we're not really pinned down to anything) and the party is otherwise strongly Remain and if a "stop this disaster" meme grows in strength, the Tory rebels will take heart. Certainly the EU would be up for calling the whole thing off, and there has never been an EU law that the collective will of the Council of Ministers hasn't found a way round.

    But it's only one poll for now.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 15,410

    The Tories are seen as more divided than Labour by voters, according to the final Opinium/Observer poll of 2017.

    Almost half of voters see the Conservatives as disunited (47%) compared with the 40% who see Labour as split.

    The findings come after a bruising period for Theresa May’s party over Brexit. The division were exposed last week when 11 Tory MPs rebelled in a vote over the role parliament should have in approving the final Brexit deal.

    Overall Labour holds a two-point lead over the Tories. Labour is down one point on a month ago at 42% while the Tories are also down one point on 39%.

    The Liberal Democrats and Ukip are both up one point on 7% and 6% respectively.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/16/brexit-row-leaves-voters-thinking-tories-are-more-divided-than-labour

    Hardly surprising as the conservatives are under the media spotlight and labour's divisions are not relevant at present.

    Fixed!
  • HYUFD said:

    60% of Germans oppose a United States of Europe by 2025

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/939560995269349377

    In 8 years! Even I'd hesitate about abolishing all 28 countries that soon. I think 32% in favour is quite an impressive score. I wonder what % would favour it as a long-term aspiration.
    At least you're honest about abolishing the 28 countries.

    Brexiteers normally get called foaming or swivel-eyed when they point that out.
    Yes, but I'm not a typical Remainer. It's swivel-eyed when one depicts all Remainers or all Continentals as being like that.
    Nonsense. You're insulting my intelligence.

    We both know Brexiters are referring to the EU federalists who drive the EU's agenda when they say that. As you put it: "even I'd hesitate about abolishing all 28 countries that soon."

    The debate is only about tactics: what's the maximum politically sustainable rate at which "The Dream" should be pursued, to reach the inevitable destination.

    The "mad" label put back on eurosceptics in the UK is political chaff designed to disorientate the average UK voter from honing in on the evidence, until it's too late.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 10,714
    edited December 2017

    I think you're mistaken, if that remains the direction of travel. Labour will evolve with public opinion, because the leadership has no strong preference (that's why we're not really pinned down to anything) and the party is otherwise strongly Remain and if a "stop this disaster" meme grows in strength, the Tory rebels will take heart. Certainly the EU would be up for calling the whole thing off, and there has never been an EU law that the collective will of the Council of Ministers hasn't found a way round.

    But it's only one poll for now.
    I think if that happened it would cause utter chaos with the country ex the metropolitan areas going ballistic and labour losing it's working class vote
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 8,728

    I think you're mistaken, if that remains the direction of travel. Labour will evolve with public opinion, because the leadership has no strong preference (that's why we're not really pinned down to anything) and the party is otherwise strongly Remain and if a "stop this disaster" meme grows in strength, the Tory rebels will take heart. Certainly the EU would be up for calling the whole thing off, and there has never been an EU law that the collective will of the Council of Ministers hasn't found a way round.

    But it's only one poll for now.
    An opinion poll doesn't carry constitutional weight.

    I truly hope Labour embrace Remaining, though. Great way to ensure their social conservative bloc vote Blue next time.
  • MaxPB said:

    So, if i stick a fiver on Gemma Atkinson, am I going to win some money, TSE?

    Depends on where you stick it on her I guess.
    She's since lengthened to over 35/1.

    Not sure that means she's on course for a win.
  • I think you're mistaken, if that remains the direction of travel. Labour will evolve with public opinion, because the leadership has no strong preference (that's why we're not really pinned down to anything) and the party is otherwise strongly Remain and if a "stop this disaster" meme grows in strength, the Tory rebels will take heart. Certainly the EU would be up for calling the whole thing off, and there has never been an EU law that the collective will of the Council of Ministers hasn't found a way round.

    But it's only one poll for now.
    I think if that happened it would cause utter chaos with the country ex the metropolitan areas going ballistic and labour losing it's working class vote
    The polling on such a question will only become informative once the future framework of our post Brexit relationship with the EU is known, and if the EU puts a deal back on the table for the UK Remaining, so we know what is being measured.

    Until then, it's really just a (MoE filled) barometer for public opinion on the current state of play of the negotiations.
  • So if Britain were Austria, Nick Griffin would be Home Secretary, Tommy Robinson would be Foreign Secretary and Trump's Twitter pal from Britain First would be Defence Secretary. I suppose 'No Surrender' is a defence policy of sorts.

    And these people now have a veto on our Brexit deal. (In theory)
  • So if Britain were Austria, Nick Griffin would be Home Secretary, Tommy Robinson would be Foreign Secretary and Trump's Twitter pal from Britain First would be Defence Secretary. I suppose 'No Surrender' is a defence policy of sorts.

    And these people now have a veto on our Brexit deal. (In theory)

    And they say the EU is one happy family
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,463


    Nonsense. You're insulting my intelligence.

    We both know Brexiters are referring to the EU federalists who drive the EU's agenda when they say that. As you put it: "even I'd hesitate about abolishing all 28 countries that soon."

    The debate is only about tactics: what's the maximum politically sustainable rate at which "The Dream" should be pursued, to reach the inevitable destination.

    The "mad" label put back on eurosceptics in the UK is political chaff designed to disorientate the average UK voter from honing in on the evidence, until it's too late.

    If Nick P isn't a typical REMAIN voter then I'm not a typical LEAVE voter.

    I voted LEAVE in sorrow more than anger because I like the idea of a European Union where individual countries pool aspects of their sovereignty and work together for the common good of all their citizens. Whether through NATO or other international agencies, Britain already cedes aspects of its sovereignty voluntarily.

    The notion of free trade, collaborative working and a single European voice on the world stage isn't unattractive to me but that's not what the EU became. It tried to become a country in its own right and became more interested in those making money than in people in general. The social, economic and cultural catastrophe of the Single Market convinced me the "idea" had lost its way - the EU could have achieved so much more by being so much less but like all institutions once it had power it wanted more.

    That doesn't discredit or diminish the dream, only the reality.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,044
    Mortimer said:

    I think you're mistaken, if that remains the direction of travel. Labour will evolve with public opinion, because the leadership has no strong preference (that's why we're not really pinned down to anything) and the party is otherwise strongly Remain and if a "stop this disaster" meme grows in strength, the Tory rebels will take heart. Certainly the EU would be up for calling the whole thing off, and there has never been an EU law that the collective will of the Council of Ministers hasn't found a way round.

    But it's only one poll for now.
    An opinion poll doesn't carry constitutional weight.

    I'm more concerned labour apparently have no policy other than going with the flow and switching to remain if public opinion evolves that way! I'm with guy verhofstadt, leading means more than following public will, it involves trying to lead it (I don't think his allies do this enough in practice, in fairness).

    The tories not knowing what they want is more immediately pressing, but 'no preference, let's switch tack if the polls shift' is I would suggest a mite unsatisfactory on such a critical issue.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,044
    edited December 2017
    stodge said:


    Nonsense. You're insulting my intelligence.

    We both know Brexiters are referring to the EU federalists who drive the EU's agenda when they say that. As you put it: "even I'd hesitate about abolishing all 28 countries that soon."

    The debate is only about tactics: what's the maximum politically sustainable rate at which "The Dream" should be pursued, to reach the inevitable destination.

    The "mad" label put back on eurosceptics in the UK is political chaff designed to disorientate the average UK voter from honing in on the evidence, until it's too late.

    If Nick P isn't a typical REMAIN voter then I'm not a typical LEAVE voter.

    I voted LEAVE in sorrow more than anger because I like the idea of a European Union where individual countries pool aspects of their sovereignty and work together for the common good of all their citizens. Whether through NATO or other international agencies, Britain already cedes aspects of its sovereignty voluntarily.

    The notion of free trade, collaborative working and a single European voice on the world stage isn't unattractive to me but that's not what the EU became. It tried to become a country in its own right and became more interested in those making money than in people in general. The social, economic and cultural catastrophe of the Single Market convinced me the "idea" had lost its way - the EU could have achieved so much more by being so much less but like all institutions once it had power it wanted more.

    That doesn't discredit or diminish the dream, only the reality.

    Well said, and very much what turned me from Remainer to leaver. But it was still a close call in the end, I hesitated.

    In the end, it had to be head over heart.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 8,728
    kle4 said:

    Mortimer said:

    I think you're mistaken, if that remains the direction of travel. Labour will evolve with public opinion, because the leadership has no strong preference (that's why we're not really pinned down to anything) and the party is otherwise strongly Remain and if a "stop this disaster" meme grows in strength, the Tory rebels will take heart. Certainly the EU would be up for calling the whole thing off, and there has never been an EU law that the collective will of the Council of Ministers hasn't found a way round.

    But it's only one poll for now.
    An opinion poll doesn't carry constitutional weight.

    I'm more concerned labour apparently have no policy other than going with the flow and switching to remain if public opinion evolves that way! I'm with guy verhofstadt, leading means more than following public will, it involves trying to lead it (I don't think his allies do this enough in practice, in fairness).

    The tories not knowing what they want is more immediately pressing, but 'no preference, let's switch tack if the polls shift' is I would suggest a mite unsatisfactory on such a critical issue.
    The golden rule of Brexit is that everything Remainers cheer ultimately hurts their cause.

    Remainers cheering Labour on will be just another example of it.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 4,573
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    To link the Opinium poll and the previous thread (with thanks as always to David H), perceptions are often more important than but not necessarily related to realities. I suspect the Conservatives are well aware of the first rule of politics which is that if you don't hang together you'll all hang separately.

    Disunity or the perception of disunity was, I believe, a key factor in the disastrous 92-97 Major Government but that was exacerbated by the equally inaccurate perception that, after four election victories and the miracle of 92, the party could do what it liked and still win.

    We see the same now - Corbyn acts as a shield for the Conservatives and re-enforces the belief of those supporters who assert it doesn't matter how disunited the party appears, it will always win against Corbyn.

    Perhaps but no Party has a divine right to rule - long periods of Conservative and Labour rule have come to ruinous ends having at times looked immortal. To simply assume that the public will always go for the Devil they know is naive and foolish.

    Wilson in 64, Thatcher in 79 and Blair in 97 were all to a greater or lesser extent untried and untested. All were doubted because of their perceived inexperience and all faced experienced if not long-serving Prime Ministers (neither Home nor Callaghan had been in office three years).

    Callaghan had actually been PM for just over three years!

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,623

    So if Britain were Austria, Nick Griffin would be Home Secretary, Tommy Robinson would be Foreign Secretary and Trump's Twitter pal from Britain First would be Defence Secretary. I suppose 'No Surrender' is a defence policy of sorts.

    And these people now have a veto on our Brexit deal. (In theory)

    The Brexit deal is QMV isn't it?
  • MaxPB said:

    So, if i stick a fiver on Gemma Atkinson, am I going to win some money, TSE?

    Depends on where you stick it on her I guess.
    She's since lengthened to over 35/1.

    Not sure that means she's on course for a win.
    Im on her. It aint happening
  • MaxPB said:

    So, if i stick a fiver on Gemma Atkinson, am I going to win some money, TSE?

    Depends on where you stick it on her I guess.
    She's since lengthened to over 35/1.

    Not sure that means she's on course for a win.
    Im on her. It aint happening
    Bugger.
  • stodge said:


    Nonsense. You're insulting my intelligence.

    We both know Brexiters are referring to the EU federalists who drive the EU's agenda when they say that. As you put it: "even I'd hesitate about abolishing all 28 countries that soon."

    The debate is only about tactics: what's the maximum politically sustainable rate at which "The Dream" should be pursued, to reach the inevitable destination.

    The "mad" label put back on eurosceptics in the UK is political chaff designed to disorientate the average UK voter from honing in on the evidence, until it's too late.

    If Nick P isn't a typical REMAIN voter then I'm not a typical LEAVE voter.

    I voted LEAVE in sorrow more than anger because I like the idea of a European Union where individual countries pool aspects of their sovereignty and work together for the common good of all their citizens. Whether through NATO or other international agencies, Britain already cedes aspects of its sovereignty voluntarily.

    The notion of free trade, collaborative working and a single European voice on the world stage isn't unattractive to me but that's not what the EU became. It tried to become a country in its own right and became more interested in those making money than in people in general. The social, economic and cultural catastrophe of the Single Market convinced me the "idea" had lost its way - the EU could have achieved so much more by being so much less but like all institutions once it had power it wanted more.

    That doesn't discredit or diminish the dream, only the reality.

    That's a fair aspiration.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,417

    So if Britain were Austria, Nick Griffin would be Home Secretary, Tommy Robinson would be Foreign Secretary and Trump's Twitter pal from Britain First would be Defence Secretary. I suppose 'No Surrender' is a defence policy of sorts.

    And these people now have a veto on our Brexit deal. (In theory)

    Tbh, both Austrian governing parties are friendlier to Brexit than the previous government. Neither party is happy with the EU, so might not be bothered to see the Eurocrats defeated.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 2,126
    The best man won :smile:
This discussion has been closed.