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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Brexit-backing Sun & Mail seen as having the most negative imp

SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited December 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Brexit-backing Sun & Mail seen as having the most negative impact on society – remain supporting Times & Guardian the most positive

I can’t recall any similar polling – looking at how the main national papers are perceived in terms of the impact they are having on society.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • I think the Telegraph rating must be an artefact of the expenses saga.
  • Britain cannot have a special deal for the City of London, the European Union’s chief Brexit negotiator has told the Guardian, dealing a blow to Theresa May’s hopes of securing a bespoke trade agreement with the bloc.

    Michel Barnier said it was unavoidable that British banks and financial firms would lose the passports that allow them to trade freely in the EU, as a result of any decision to quit the single market.

    “There is no place [for financial services]. There is not a single trade agreement that is open to financial services. It doesn’t exist.” He said the outcome was a consequence of “the red lines that the British have chosen themselves. In leaving the single market, they lose the financial services passport.”

    ....

    The negotiator also said:

    The UK could not stop Brexit unilaterally, arguing that overturning the decision to leave would require the consent of 27 EU member states – a view at odds with one of the authors of article 50, Lord Kerr.
    The UK must follow all rules and regulations of the EU during the transition period, including new laws passed after the UK has left.

    The UK could negotiate trade agreements with the rest of the world during the transition, but they could not come into force.

    He would not confirm British estimates that the final Brexit bill – the UK’s outstanding obligations to the EU – would be no more than €45bn (£39bn).

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/18/uk-cannot-have-a-special-deal-for-the-city-says-eu-brexit-negotiator-barnier
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited December 2017
    fpt;

    Pong said:
    A great article is one you disagree with but respect and admire the argument and conclusions reached. It does not mean an intellectually feeble article which you agree with. Preaching to the converted is easy.
    Eh?

    With respect, your first sentence is certifiably bonkers.

    If you agree with an article, it can't be great?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,606

    Britain cannot have a special deal for the City of London, the European Union’s chief Brexit negotiator has told the Guardian, dealing a blow to Theresa May’s hopes of securing a bespoke trade agreement with the bloc.

    Michel Barnier said it was unavoidable that British banks and financial firms would lose the passports that allow them to trade freely in the EU, as a result of any decision to quit the single market.

    “There is no place [for financial services]. There is not a single trade agreement that is open to financial services. It doesn’t exist.” He said the outcome was a consequence of “the red lines that the British have chosen themselves. In leaving the single market, they lose the financial services passport.”

    ....

    The negotiator also said:

    The UK could not stop Brexit unilaterally, arguing that overturning the decision to leave would require the consent of 27 EU member states – a view at odds with one of the authors of article 50, Lord Kerr.
    The UK must follow all rules and regulations of the EU during the transition period, including new laws passed after the UK has left.

    The UK could negotiate trade agreements with the rest of the world during the transition, but they could not come into force.

    He would not confirm British estimates that the final Brexit bill – the UK’s outstanding obligations to the EU – would be no more than €45bn (£39bn).

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/18/uk-cannot-have-a-special-deal-for-the-city-says-eu-brexit-negotiator-barnier

    What the chief negotiator says on the A50 process may or may not be true - clearly no one really knows, since it has not been tested, and plenty make the claim while we would need their consent, they would find a way whatever the rules says - and he is in no better a position to speak definitively on the subject than anyone else. As the chief negotiator, talking tough on other aspects however is something he is more able to be definitive on, though once again taking it entirely at face value seems to be a mistake - when one side says x has not happened before and cannot happen, well, they might well be right, but it might also be talking tough.
  • So it turns out that it may not only be ‘metropolitan liberals’ that take a rather dim view of The Sun and The Daily Mail.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,606

    kle4 said:

    Pong said:
    You and Paul Mason need a history lesson.

    For starters have you never heard of The English Civil War
    I think for many people history only really began in the 20th Century. Even with the horrors of the world wars and some genocides in there, people tend to forget about how much awfulness and division there was in the past when making their hyperbolic comparisons of how fractious politics now is unprecedented. It's very nostalgic in that regard, romanticizing the past.
    I think it was 4% of the population was killed during The Civil War.

    For Brexit to match that we’d need circa 2,500,000 fatalities from Brexit.
    4% in England
    6% in Scotland
    40% in Ireland
    Things were so rough in Ireland even some members of the Cromwellian parliaments argued that they needed some relief from the proposed level of money being demanded of the Irish citizenry, IIRC

    More amusingly, looking at some of the old debates, I see this objection from a couple of MPs seemingly objecting to the treating of those representing Ireland differently.

    Mr. Bampfield and Mr. Robinson. All that serve for Ireland should be of this committee.

    Sir Gilbert Pickering and Mr. Highland. Against any such distinction of members. It is an ill precedent, and looks not like an union. Desire that they may be all named, and name as many as you will; but let them not be exclusively added.


    As it once was, so it is now.

    Edit - I love accounts of old parliamentary debates, that even in times of great civil strife you see such mundane procedural arguments, or indeed summaries like this

    Mr. Picketing. The end is not to punish any for their opinions, but to reduce them to the obedience of the government...

    He made a long story to little purpose.


    Hansard should insert such commentary.

  • The one that surprises me is the FT. It hardly stands up for the proletariat.
  • Looks like a lot of virtue signalling there of the type:

    Broadsheets = intelligent = good
    Tabloids = thick = bad
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,606
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Pong said:
    You and Paul Mason need a history lesson.

    For starters have you never heard of The English Civil War
    Nah, everyone had the same elitist groupthink.

    That said, I would have thought a born again marxist like Mason would be familiar with the English Civil War, some great historians of the period were marxist in their outlook.
    Christopher Hill being the most notable, I would suggest.
    First name that springs to mind, certainly.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,870
    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,606
    What about the New European?

    Very nice chap I know eagerly awaits every issue, and how it demolishes every Brexiter out there with ease.
  • Looks like a lot of virtue signalling there of the type:

    Broadsheets = intelligent = good
    Tabloids = thick = bad

    As one who voted to Leave I consider the Mail and the Sun as cancers on society.
    It is nice to see that quite a lot of people agree with me.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,606
    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    They should stop asking and just start charging. Some of their stuff is pretty good.
  • So it turns out that it may not only be ‘metropolitan liberals’ that take a rather dim view of The Sun and The Daily Mail.

    They also take a dim view of the Mirror.

    And the least badly thought of is the Express, which is complete drivel.

    But its all likely virtue signalling bollox.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,606

    So it turns out that it may not only be ‘metropolitan liberals’ that take a rather dim view of The Sun and The Daily Mail.

    Most people do. Most people take a dim view toward Macdonalds too, but people still buy what they are selling.
  • Looks like a lot of virtue signalling there of the type:

    Broadsheets = intelligent = good
    Tabloids = thick = bad

    As one who voted to Leave I consider the Mail and the Sun as cancers on society.
    It is nice to see that quite a lot of people agree with me.
    I don't read them but they're clearly popular.

    Including I suspect with some people who claim they have a negative influence on society.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,642
    kle4 said:

    What about the New European?

    Very nice chap I know eagerly awaits every issue, and how it demolishes every Brexiter out there with ease.

    They took the demolition part rather literally with the 'punch a Brexiteer' cartoons. That said if the New European had been included in this survey I'd expect a very high DK % as barely anyone reads it.
  • kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    They should stop asking and just start charging. Some of their stuff is pretty good.
    If the Guardian started charging it would probably boost upper middle class productivity as people spent less time on the internet while at work.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,606
    Essexit said:

    kle4 said:

    What about the New European?

    Very nice chap I know eagerly awaits every issue, and how it demolishes every Brexiter out there with ease.

    They took the demolition part rather literally with the 'punch a Brexiteer' cartoons. That said if the New European had been included in this survey I'd expect a very high DK % as barely anyone reads it.
    Price is going up apparently, so get it while you can.
  • So it turns out that it may not only be ‘metropolitan liberals’ that take a rather dim view of The Sun and The Daily Mail.

    They also take a dim view of the Mirror.

    And the least badly thought of is the Express, which is complete drivel.

    But its all likely virtue signalling bollox.
    True, but many times when anyone on the left judges The Sun and/or the DM you are treated as if you are a part of some separate, out of touch elite going against the majority of people. At least that’s been my experience anyway. Whereas when someone is critical of the Mirror, I’ve never seen them being accused of going against ‘ordinary people.’

    @kle4 Most people take a dim view of McDonalds? Really?
  • For papers that are seen so negative, it doesn’t seem to stop huge numbers of people logging on to their websites.
  • kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    They should stop asking and just start charging. Some of their stuff is pretty good.
    If the Guardian started charging it would probably boost upper middle class productivity as people spent less time on the internet while at work.
    Shouldn't you have said Public Sector productivity?
  • I think the Telegraph rating must be an artefact of the expenses saga.

    Is it not a simple broadsheet/tabloid distinction?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,870
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    They should stop asking and just start charging. Some of their stuff is pretty good.
    That would probably drive them to bankruptcy even faster. It's too late for them to put a paywall up. They've cultivated a culture of not paying for journalism with their criticism of News International. Too many of their readers were brought onto the bandwagon of free news media with those stupid editorials. Now The Times has 200,000 subscribers generating £17m in revenue, plus premium advertising slots and ancillary revenue generated through additional memberships. The Guardian would be starting from less than zero.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,606

    So it turns out that it may not only be ‘metropolitan liberals’ that take a rather dim view of The Sun and The Daily Mail.

    They also take a dim view of the Mirror.

    And the least badly thought of is the Express, which is complete drivel.

    But its all likely virtue signalling bollox.
    True, but many times when anyone on the left judges The Sun and/or the DM you are treated as if you are a part of some separate, out of touch elite going against the majority of people. At least that’s been my experience anyway. Whereas when someone is critical of the Mirror, I’ve never seen them being accused of going against ‘ordinary people.’

    @kle4 Most people take a dim view of McDonalds? Really?
    Well I've not seen polling on that in fairness, but jokes about its food being bad and unhealthy are so prevalent that the company itself has run adds involving people asking questions about it (and being corrected), and it is a go to example of the dangers of fast food outlets, even though there are more subways in the world.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,542
    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    It is not just the Guardian - Cracked has recently got rid of most employees after their business model collapsed following their decision to adopt a radical Social Justice agenda. No-one wants to pay for that sort of content it would appear.
  • Looks like a lot of virtue signalling there of the type:

    Broadsheets = intelligent = good
    Tabloids = thick = bad

    As one who voted to Leave I consider the Mail and the Sun as cancers on society.
    It is nice to see that quite a lot of people agree with me.
    I don't read them but they're clearly popular.

    Including I suspect with some people who claim they have a negative influence on society.
    Sometimes I skim read them in Costa Coffee to remind me what drivel they contain.
    But yes I acknowledge their popularity albeit declining popularity - as all newspapers are experiencing.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,642
    kle4 said:

    Essexit said:

    kle4 said:

    What about the New European?

    Very nice chap I know eagerly awaits every issue, and how it demolishes every Brexiter out there with ease.

    They took the demolition part rather literally with the 'punch a Brexiteer' cartoons. That said if the New European had been included in this survey I'd expect a very high DK % as barely anyone reads it.
    Price is going up apparently, so get it while you can.
    I'll have to switch to regular firelighters, then.
  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,041
    Stop funding hate have said they commissioned the poll.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,639
    I can't argue with that. Although the Sun is nowadays less odious than the Mail.
  • MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    It is not just the Guardian - Cracked has recently got rid of most employees after their business model collapsed following their decision to adopt a radical Social Justice agenda. No-one wants to pay for that sort of content it would appear.
    Buzzfeed have also being burning cash like no tomorrow and had to lay a huge proportion of their uk staff.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,870
    edited December 2017

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    It is not just the Guardian - Cracked has recently got rid of most employees after their business model collapsed following their decision to adopt a radical Social Justice agenda. No-one wants to pay for that sort of content it would appear.
    Buzzfeed have sacked a third of their editorial staff in the UK as well. It's almost as if excluding 50% of the population from reading your website or calling them racist Nazis isn't good for business...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,365
    edited December 2017
    nielh said:

    Stop funding hate have said they commissioned the poll.

    Who did yougov survey? Only those following that campaign on twitter?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,542
    nielh said:

    Stop funding hate have said they commissioned the poll.

    No agenda there then. No not at all.

    Time for a new thread!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,870

    So it turns out that it may not only be ‘metropolitan liberals’ that take a rather dim view of The Sun and The Daily Mail.

    They also take a dim view of the Mirror.

    And the least badly thought of is the Express, which is complete drivel.

    But its all likely virtue signalling bollox.
    True, but many times when anyone on the left judges The Sun and/or the DM you are treated as if you are a part of some separate, out of touch elite going against the majority of people. At least that’s been my experience anyway. Whereas when someone is critical of the Mirror, I’ve never seen them being accused of going against ‘ordinary people.’

    @kle4 Most people take a dim view of McDonalds? Really?
    There's probably a fairly large crossover between the people who rate the Guardian as a positive and thinking McDonald's is not good.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,606

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    It is not just the Guardian - Cracked has recently got rid of most employees after their business model collapsed following their decision to adopt a radical Social Justice agenda. No-one wants to pay for that sort of content it would appear.
    Is that what happened to Cracked? I wondered why there had been such a noticable sudden shift to shorter and fewer content, more reader produced content, articles which were just adverts and peppering of other articles with links to amazon purchases and the like in what I presume is a money making tactic by inserting such links.

    A shame, I've had years of enjoyment from reading Cracked.


  • nielh said:

    Stop funding hate have said they commissioned the poll.

    No agenda there then. No not at all.

    Time for a new thread!
    But the questions asked by YouGov are impeccably neutral.
  • Was the question how do you rate these newspapers...

    The lovely cuddley do-gooder guardian
    The evil brown shirt supporting daily mail
    The phone hacking sun

    ....
  • So it turns out that it may not only be ‘metropolitan liberals’ that take a rather dim view of The Sun and The Daily Mail.

    They also take a dim view of the Mirror.

    And the least badly thought of is the Express, which is complete drivel.

    But its all likely virtue signalling bollox.
    True, but many times when anyone on the left judges The Sun and/or the DM you are treated as if you are a part of some separate, out of touch elite going against the majority of people. At least that’s been my experience anyway. Whereas when someone is critical of the Mirror, I’ve never seen them being accused of going against ‘ordinary people.’
    Lefties tend to attack the Mail and Sun
    Righties tend to attack the Guardian
  • MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    I think perhaps this poll indicates that it isn’t only virtual signalling leftists who may have a positive view of The Guardian.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,542
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    It is not just the Guardian - Cracked has recently got rid of most employees after their business model collapsed following their decision to adopt a radical Social Justice agenda. No-one wants to pay for that sort of content it would appear.
    Is that what happened to Cracked? I wondered why there had been such a noticable sudden shift to shorter and fewer content, more reader produced content, articles which were just adverts and peppering of other articles with links to amazon purchases and the like in what I presume is a money making tactic by inserting such links.

    A shame, I've had years of enjoyment from reading Cracked.


    Many people have said the same.

    I believe the change came around the time of Gamergate - and their revenue declined massively.
  • The i paper was polled, and that's a tabloid and that has a 7% net positive rating.

    So that's shot the virtue signalling meme theory to hell.
  • The i paper was polled, and that's a tabloid and that has a 7% net positive rating.

    So that's shot the virtue signalling meme theory to hell.

    The i tends to be viewed as a broadsheet in tabloid form (like The Times too I believe) as legacy from its days as the Independent.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,542

    nielh said:

    Stop funding hate have said they commissioned the poll.

    No agenda there then. No not at all.

    Time for a new thread!
    But the questions asked by YouGov are impeccably neutral.
    As someone who completes 2-3 YouGov surveys per week, it is perfectly obvious when there is an agenda being pushed.
  • So it turns out that it may not only be ‘metropolitan liberals’ that take a rather dim view of The Sun and The Daily Mail.

    They also take a dim view of the Mirror.

    And the least badly thought of is the Express, which is complete drivel.

    But its all likely virtue signalling bollox.
    @kle4 Most people take a dim view of McDonalds? Really?
    Some people do.

    Weatherspoons has the same effect.
  • Was the question how do you rate these newspapers...

    The lovely cuddley do-gooder guardian
    The evil brown shirt supporting daily mail
    The phone hacking sun

    ....

    Of course it wasn't. Check the detail of how the poll was conducted by going to the link above
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,606

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    It is not just the Guardian - Cracked has recently got rid of most employees after their business model collapsed following their decision to adopt a radical Social Justice agenda. No-one wants to pay for that sort of content it would appear.
    Is that what happened to Cracked? I wondered why there had been such a noticable sudden shift to shorter and fewer content, more reader produced content, articles which were just adverts and peppering of other articles with links to amazon purchases and the like in what I presume is a money making tactic by inserting such links.

    A shame, I've had years of enjoyment from reading Cracked.


    Many people have said the same.

    I believe the change came around the time of Gamergate - and their revenue declined massively.
    Gamergate was some while ago though - I guess they were keeping things going for as long as possible before realising they could not sustain it, as it was quite recently that such a noticable shift came over the content in terms of a sense of 'We need money, badly!'
  • Was the question how do you rate these newspapers...

    The lovely cuddley do-gooder guardian
    The evil brown shirt supporting daily mail
    The phone hacking sun

    ....

    Do you think the following newspapers have a positive or negative influence on society?

    Positive influence
    Negative influence
    Neither a positive nor negative influence
    Don't Know
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,365
    edited December 2017

    Was the question how do you rate these newspapers...

    The lovely cuddley do-gooder guardian
    The evil brown shirt supporting daily mail
    The phone hacking sun

    ....

    Of course it wasn't. Check the detail of how the poll was conducted by going to the link above
    I was joking...God some people seem to have had a humour bypass since brexit...
  • MaxPB said:

    So it turns out that it may not only be ‘metropolitan liberals’ that take a rather dim view of The Sun and The Daily Mail.

    They also take a dim view of the Mirror.

    And the least badly thought of is the Express, which is complete drivel.

    But its all likely virtue signalling bollox.
    True, but many times when anyone on the left judges The Sun and/or the DM you are treated as if you are a part of some separate, out of touch elite going against the majority of people. At least that’s been my experience anyway. Whereas when someone is critical of the Mirror, I’ve never seen them being accused of going against ‘ordinary people.’

    @kle4 Most people take a dim view of McDonalds? Really?
    There's probably a fairly large crossover between the people who rate the Guardian as a positive and thinking McDonald's is not good.
    For my part, I have a mildly positive view of The Guardian and I quite like McDonalds (once in a while it’s not too bad to have).
  • nielh said:

    Stop funding hate have said they commissioned the poll.

    No agenda there then. No not at all.

    Time for a new thread!
    But the questions asked by YouGov are impeccably neutral.
    As someone who completes 2-3 YouGov surveys per week, it is perfectly obvious when there is an agenda being pushed.
    I took part in this poll, you're talking nonsense.
  • The i paper was polled, and that's a tabloid and that has a 7% net positive rating.

    So that's shot the virtue signalling meme theory to hell.

    Don't be silly.

    If people know what the i is they'll think of it as the broadsheet Independent.

    Though how many people have actually read the i is not likely to be high.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,870

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    I think perhaps this poll indicates that it isn’t only virtual signalling leftists who may have a positive view of The Guardian.
    Tbh, I have a net positive view of the Guardian. They do quality stuff. I wouldn't pay for it though, I do pay a hundred quid a year for The Times.
  • MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    I think perhaps this poll indicates that it isn’t only virtual signalling leftists who may have a positive view of The Guardian.
    I have a positive view of the Guardian because its free and in full on the internet.

    And almost all of my reading of it is in its business, sport, culture and lifestyle sections.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,606

    Was the question how do you rate these newspapers...

    The lovely cuddley do-gooder guardian
    The evil brown shirt supporting daily mail
    The phone hacking sun

    ....

    What silliness - do-gooder is often a pejorative, of a well meaning but impractical or annoying way. The description have been the 'saintly' guardian.
  • Was the question how do you rate these newspapers...

    The lovely cuddley do-gooder guardian
    The evil brown shirt supporting daily mail
    The phone hacking sun

    ....

    Of course it wasn't. Check the detail of how the poll was conducted by going to the link above
    According to the details of the poll it was the only question asked. Was it really a survey with only one solitary question asked, or have the other questions been omitted from the link?


  • It's one thing to have right-wing leanings, but the Daily Mail has become ludicrously partisan. The notorious 'malcontent' front page, banging on about Tory unity and Marxists, read like it was written by a Tory whip. The Mail's readership might be small-c conservative, but I doubt they enjoy being ordered to worship Theresa's failing regime. But, of course, Dacre is utterly besotted with her so it's not going to stop.
  • The first part of this survey was asking me if I'd consider buying Samsung phones.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,870
    edited December 2017

    The first part of this survey was asking me if I'd consider buying Samsung phones.

    Did they have a "are you fucking crazy" option?
  • I think the good/bad influence question is largely meaningless. However I would agree that the Guardian and the Times are the only two papers that now show any degree of journalistic integrity and ability. It is pretty easy to ignore the clear left wing bias in the Guardian and once you have done that the standard of journalism is generally good.

    The Telegraph is just a rag these days and the rest are comics not fit to be taken seriously as newspapers.
  • The first part of this survey was asking me if I'd consider buying Samsung phones.

    Was it phrased as "would you consider buying a phone with superior hardware and software than apple" ?
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,642
    The Leave-backing Telegraph is only a little behind the other broadsheets and the Remain-backing Mirror is viewed less favourably than the Express.

    Overall what we can draw from this is the tabloids/broadsheets are more widely read by the working/middle-class, who are more likely to back Leave/Remain, and papers' stance on the issue is determined accordingly. The public generally view broadsheets more positively, or broadsheet readers are more forward about expressing their approval/disapproval of broadsheets/tabloids.
  • MaxPB said:

    The first part of this survey was asking me if I'd consider buying Samsung phones.

    Did they have a "are you fucking crazy" option?
    Only for those dumb enough to buy Apple products.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 64,256
    edited December 2017
    MaxPB said:

    The first part of this survey was asking me if I'd consider buying Samsung phones.

    Did they have a "are you fucking crazy" option?
    They did give you large comments boxes.

    I replied with

    'I love my iPhones, the iPhone X is the da bomb, I'm buried in the Apple ecosystem, and finally I DON'T WANT A PHONE THAT EXPLODES'
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    I think perhaps this poll indicates that it isn’t only virtual signalling leftists who may have a positive view of The Guardian.
    Tbh, I have a net positive view of the Guardian. They do quality stuff. I wouldn't pay for it though, I do pay a hundred quid a year for The Times.
    The Times has quite a few commentators worth reading, but the subscription fee is a bit too expensive for my liking.
  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,041

    nielh said:

    Stop funding hate have said they commissioned the poll.

    No agenda there then. No not at all.

    Time for a new thread!
    But the questions asked by YouGov are impeccably neutral.
    As someone who completes 2-3 YouGov surveys per week, it is perfectly obvious when there is an agenda being pushed.
    I took part in this poll, you're talking nonsense.
    The poll doesn't prove much. A large minority of people really dislike the sun and the daily mail. A few of these people who have found their voice in stop funding hate.
    No big suprise here, in my view.


  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,228

    The first part of this survey was asking me if I'd consider buying Samsung phones.

    Was it phrased as "would you consider buying a phone with superior hardware and software than apple" ?
    I don't think someone who denies that Die Hard is a Christmas movie is ready for the Android experience.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,870

    MaxPB said:

    The first part of this survey was asking me if I'd consider buying Samsung phones.

    Did they have a "are you fucking crazy" option?
    Only for those dumb enough to buy Apple products.
    It would be an option for TSE only.

    Have to say, I have the iPad Pro and it is an exquisite product.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,870

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    I think perhaps this poll indicates that it isn’t only virtual signalling leftists who may have a positive view of The Guardian.
    Tbh, I have a net positive view of the Guardian. They do quality stuff. I wouldn't pay for it though, I do pay a hundred quid a year for The Times.
    The Times has quite a few commentators worth reading, but the subscription fee is a bit too expensive for my liking.
    Aren't you a student? If you have unidays you can get it for £20 a year or something along those lines. Definitely worth it at that price.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    I think perhaps this poll indicates that it isn’t only virtual signalling leftists who may have a positive view of The Guardian.
    Tbh, I have a net positive view of the Guardian. They do quality stuff. I wouldn't pay for it though, I do pay a hundred quid a year for The Times.
    The Times has quite a few commentators worth reading, but the subscription fee is a bit too expensive for my liking.
    Sign up for trial deal, when that is ready to end, ring them up to cancel, they'll ask you why you're wanting to cancel, say the subscription is a bit pricey, and you can get it on iTunes for less, they'll offer you a special rate of around £5/6 a month'

    Is what I've been paying since 2011.

    For that I get complete online, tablet, and phone app coverage.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,365
    edited December 2017
    Ishmael_Z said:

    The first part of this survey was asking me if I'd consider buying Samsung phones.

    Was it phrased as "would you consider buying a phone with superior hardware and software than apple" ?
    I don't think someone who denies that Die Hard is a Christmas movie is ready for the Android experience.
    Lol...I was joking* about push polling as much as poking fun at TSE.

    * Yes mike, joking. I have never been one to claim yougov is intentionally biased etc.
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    I dont think it has anything to do with Brexit. Thats just a coincidence. The vast majority of people dont even read the Times and Guardian both of whom have tiny readerships. Most people dont even know their stances on Brexit.

    Much much more likely is that the Guardian and the Times are perceived as quality newspapers, and the Sun and the Mail have reputations as muck rakers -reputations that they had long before Brexit.

    Beware of seeing everything through the obsessive kaleidoscopic lens of Brexit.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    The first part of this survey was asking me if I'd consider buying Samsung phones.

    Was it phrased as "would you consider buying a phone with superior hardware and software than apple" ?
    I don't think someone who denies that Die Hard is a Christmas movie is ready for the Android experience.
    I had the Android experience for a few months.

    It sucked more than a hooker that swallowed a Dyson.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,365
    edited December 2017

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The first part of this survey was asking me if I'd consider buying Samsung phones.

    Was it phrased as "would you consider buying a phone with superior hardware and software than apple" ?
    I don't think someone who denies that Die Hard is a Christmas movie is ready for the Android experience.
    I had the Android experience for a few months.

    It sucked more than a hooker that swallowed a Dyson.
    So like IoS 11 then...I think after 6 updates in about 8 weeks they might have just about fixed 75% of the bugs they introduced.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,870

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The first part of this survey was asking me if I'd consider buying Samsung phones.

    Was it phrased as "would you consider buying a phone with superior hardware and software than apple" ?
    I don't think someone who denies that Die Hard is a Christmas movie is ready for the Android experience.
    I had the Android experience for a few months.

    It sucked more than a hooker that swallowed a Dyson.
    Android on phones is a far superior experience than any iPhone. I have an 8+ from work and a loathe it, thankfully it sits in my desk drawer for most of the day. On tablets iOS is probably better. I definitely prefer my iPad to my old android tablet.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,606
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    I think perhaps this poll indicates that it isn’t only virtual signalling leftists who may have a positive view of The Guardian.
    Tbh, I have a net positive view of the Guardian. They do quality stuff. I wouldn't pay for it though, I do pay a hundred quid a year for The Times.
    The Times has quite a few commentators worth reading, but the subscription fee is a bit too expensive for my liking.
    Aren't you a student? If you have unidays you can get it for £20 a year or something along those lines. Definitely worth it at that price.
    And a lot less than the £1000 annual fee for access on PB. Everyone else has to pay that, right?
  • kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    I think perhaps this poll indicates that it isn’t only virtual signalling leftists who may have a positive view of The Guardian.
    Tbh, I have a net positive view of the Guardian. They do quality stuff. I wouldn't pay for it though, I do pay a hundred quid a year for The Times.
    The Times has quite a few commentators worth reading, but the subscription fee is a bit too expensive for my liking.
    Aren't you a student? If you have unidays you can get it for £20 a year or something along those lines. Definitely worth it at that price.
    And a lot less than the £1000 annual fee for access on PB. Everyone else has to pay that, right?
    Is that what they charge for access from an iPhone X phone?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,810
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    I think perhaps this poll indicates that it isn’t only virtual signalling leftists who may have a positive view of The Guardian.
    Tbh, I have a net positive view of the Guardian. They do quality stuff. I wouldn't pay for it though, I do pay a hundred quid a year for The Times.
    The Times has quite a few commentators worth reading, but the subscription fee is a bit too expensive for my liking.
    Aren't you a student? If you have unidays you can get it for £20 a year or something along those lines. Definitely worth it at that price.
    And a lot less than the £1000 annual fee for access on PB. Everyone else has to pay that, right?
    Only £1000? Clearly you aren't in the PB Double Diamond club :p
  • RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    I think perhaps this poll indicates that it isn’t only virtual signalling leftists who may have a positive view of The Guardian.
    Tbh, I have a net positive view of the Guardian. They do quality stuff. I wouldn't pay for it though, I do pay a hundred quid a year for The Times.
    The Times has quite a few commentators worth reading, but the subscription fee is a bit too expensive for my liking.
    Aren't you a student? If you have unidays you can get it for £20 a year or something along those lines. Definitely worth it at that price.
    And a lot less than the £1000 annual fee for access on PB. Everyone else has to pay that, right?
    Only £1000? Clearly you aren't in the PB Double Diamond club :p
    I believe large discounts are available for those who are also members of the radiohead fanclub and who want access from a Chromebook.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 2,327
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    I think perhaps this poll indicates that it isn’t only virtual signalling leftists who may have a positive view of The Guardian.
    Tbh, I have a net positive view of the Guardian. They do quality stuff. I wouldn't pay for it though, I do pay a hundred quid a year for The Times.
    The Times has quite a few commentators worth reading, but the subscription fee is a bit too expensive for my liking.
    Aren't you a student? If you have unidays you can get it for £20 a year or something along those lines. Definitely worth it at that price.
    And a lot less than the £1000 annual fee for access on PB. Everyone else has to pay that, right?
    That's MIke's 'special' discout rate. The CIA pay twice that.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,810

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    I think perhaps this poll indicates that it isn’t only virtual signalling leftists who may have a positive view of The Guardian.
    Tbh, I have a net positive view of the Guardian. They do quality stuff. I wouldn't pay for it though, I do pay a hundred quid a year for The Times.
    The Times has quite a few commentators worth reading, but the subscription fee is a bit too expensive for my liking.
    Aren't you a student? If you have unidays you can get it for £20 a year or something along those lines. Definitely worth it at that price.
    And a lot less than the £1000 annual fee for access on PB. Everyone else has to pay that, right?
    Only £1000? Clearly you aren't in the PB Double Diamond club :p
    I believe large discounts are available for those who are also members of the radiohead fanclub and who want access from a Chromebook.
    Lucky gits. I have to pay the pineapple surcharge.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,249
    kle4 said:

    And a lot less than the £1000 annual fee for access on PB. Everyone else has to pay that, right?

    How many "first"s does that get you?
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    I think perhaps this poll indicates that it isn’t only virtual signalling leftists who may have a positive view of The Guardian.
    Tbh, I have a net positive view of the Guardian. They do quality stuff. I wouldn't pay for it though, I do pay a hundred quid a year for The Times.
    The Times has quite a few commentators worth reading, but the subscription fee is a bit too expensive for my liking.
    Aren't you a student? If you have unidays you can get it for £20 a year or something along those lines. Definitely worth it at that price.
    And a lot less than the £1000 annual fee for access on PB. Everyone else has to pay that, right?
    Only £1000? Clearly you aren't in the PB Double Diamond club :p
    I believe large discounts are available for those who are also members of the radiohead fanclub and who want access from a Chromebook.
    Lucky gits. I have to pay the pineapple surcharge.
    I couldn't live with myself if I sold out and joined the radiohead fanclub just for the pb discount.
  • RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    I think perhaps this poll indicates that it isn’t only virtual signalling leftists who may have a positive view of The Guardian.
    Tbh, I have a net positive view of the Guardian. They do quality stuff. I wouldn't pay for it though, I do pay a hundred quid a year for The Times.
    The Times has quite a few commentators worth reading, but the subscription fee is a bit too expensive for my liking.
    Aren't you a student? If you have unidays you can get it for £20 a year or something along those lines. Definitely worth it at that price.
    And a lot less than the £1000 annual fee for access on PB. Everyone else has to pay that, right?
    Only £1000? Clearly you aren't in the PB Double Diamond club :p
    For £1000 I'd expect Double #MODERATED#
  • RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    I think perhaps this poll indicates that it isn’t only virtual signalling leftists who may have a positive view of The Guardian.
    Tbh, I have a net positive view of the Guardian. They do quality stuff. I wouldn't pay for it though, I do pay a hundred quid a year for The Times.
    The Times has quite a few commentators worth reading, but the subscription fee is a bit too expensive for my liking.
    Aren't you a student? If you have unidays you can get it for £20 a year or something along those lines. Definitely worth it at that price.
    And a lot less than the £1000 annual fee for access on PB. Everyone else has to pay that, right?
    Only £1000? Clearly you aren't in the PB Double Diamond club :p
    Membership of the PB Double Diamond club is free if you upload a video to YouTube of yourselves burning a Hawaiian pizza.
  • MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    I think perhaps this poll indicates that it isn’t only virtual signalling leftists who may have a positive view of The Guardian.
    I have a positive view of the Guardian because its free and in full on the internet.

    And almost all of my reading of it is in its business, sport, culture and lifestyle sections.
    I like to read the lifestyle and sports sections too, though I do read their politics section as well.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,606
    Scott_P said:

    kle4 said:

    And a lot less than the £1000 annual fee for access on PB. Everyone else has to pay that, right?

    How many "first"s does that get you?
    I shall not impugn the good name of PB by answering such a question. You only get to impugn at the £2000 level,
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    I think perhaps this poll indicates that it isn’t only virtual signalling leftists who may have a positive view of The Guardian.
    Tbh, I have a net positive view of the Guardian. They do quality stuff. I wouldn't pay for it though, I do pay a hundred quid a year for The Times.
    The Times has quite a few commentators worth reading, but the subscription fee is a bit too expensive for my liking.
    Aren't you a student? If you have unidays you can get it for £20 a year or something along those lines. Definitely worth it at that price.
    I graduated while ago, I’m working now.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    I think perhaps this poll indicates that it isn’t only virtual signalling leftists who may have a positive view of The Guardian.
    Tbh, I have a net positive view of the Guardian. They do quality stuff. I wouldn't pay for it though, I do pay a hundred quid a year for The Times.
    The Times has quite a few commentators worth reading, but the subscription fee is a bit too expensive for my liking.
    Sign up for trial deal, when that is ready to end, ring them up to cancel, they'll ask you why you're wanting to cancel, say the subscription is a bit pricey, and you can get it on iTunes for less, they'll offer you a special rate of around £5/6 a month'

    Is what I've been paying since 2011.

    For that I get complete online, tablet, and phone app coverage.
    Thanks TSE - I’ll try that!
  • Nick Timothy is NOT a Tory.


    twitter.com/SunPolitics/status/942882169395011584

    Labour sleeper agent...
  • Instead, capital gains tax should be levied on house sales to help “younger people on modest incomes”.
  • I know it’s a bad day when I agree with Nick Timothy.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,870

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    And yet the guardian are closest to bankruptcy. Virtue signalling leftists don't like to pay for stuff, clearly.

    I think perhaps this poll indicates that it isn’t only virtual signalling leftists who may have a positive view of The Guardian.
    Tbh, I have a net positive view of the Guardian. They do quality stuff. I wouldn't pay for it though, I do pay a hundred quid a year for The Times.
    The Times has quite a few commentators worth reading, but the subscription fee is a bit too expensive for my liking.
    Aren't you a student? If you have unidays you can get it for £20 a year or something along those lines. Definitely worth it at that price.
    I graduated while ago, I’m working now.
    I see. Well I think it's worth it for the hundred quid. I spend £2 a week on worse stuff and Swiss news is extremely dull and the free paper is terrible. I don't think I could get through the day without The Times app on my phone.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,870

    Instead, capital gains tax should be levied on house sales to help “younger people on modest incomes”.

    How does introducing CGT on primary residences help young people? A home is not an investment. What kind of a second rate SDP sleeper agent is Nick Timothy.
  • MaxPB said:

    Instead, capital gains tax should be levied on house sales to help “younger people on modest incomes”.

    How does introducing CGT on primary residences help young people? A home is not an investment. What kind of a second rate SDP sleeper agent is Nick Timothy.
    So if I buy a house at the top of the boom and sell it for a loss, does that mean I can use the losses to offset my cap gains elsewhere?

    Can I roll them forward?
  • MaxPB said:

    Instead, capital gains tax should be levied on house sales to help “younger people on modest incomes”.

    How does introducing CGT on primary residences help young people? A home is not an investment. What kind of a second rate SDP sleeper agent is Nick Timothy.
    So if I buy a house at the top of the boom and sell it for a loss, does that mean I can use the losses to offset my cap gains elsewhere?

    Can I roll them forward?
    You would have thought rollover relief would be available on main residences.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,870

    MaxPB said:

    Instead, capital gains tax should be levied on house sales to help “younger people on modest incomes”.

    How does introducing CGT on primary residences help young people? A home is not an investment. What kind of a second rate SDP sleeper agent is Nick Timothy.
    So if I buy a house at the top of the boom and sell it for a loss, does that mean I can use the losses to offset my cap gains elsewhere?

    Can I roll them forward?
    I guess so. If you take a capital loss against your name then surely you can roll it forwards or offset it against personal taxation. It surely opens up a huge income tax loophole.
This discussion has been closed.