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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The restoration of hanging, corporal punishment & blue passpor

SystemSystem Posts: 3,967
edited December 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The restoration of hanging, corporal punishment & blue passports – the key post-Brexit priorities for Leave voters

The point that Professor John Curtice made yesterday about the big dividing politics British politics has become between social liberals and social conservatives is very much backed up by the above polling published by YouGov earlier in the year.

Read the full story here


Comments

  • Surprised Leavers aren't in favour of capital punishment in schools.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 2,652
    Dung for dinner
  • PongPong Posts: 4,614
    It's frustrating YouGov left out an anti-gay option like "restoring the definition of traditional marriage" or wotnot.

    The crossover is significant.
  • stevefstevef Posts: 616
    A majority of people -especially older more Conservative voters -have for decades been in favour of restoring the death penalty. This has nothing to do with Brexit, despite cunning efforts here to dovetail Brexit with hanging, and thereby to tar the leave cause and leavers in general with the "bring back the noose" brush.

    You could just as easily say that people who fought on D Day in 1944 are more likely to be in favour of hanging and the cane in schools. Therefore fighting in World War Two is a bad thing because it makes you part of the hang em and flog 'em brigade. Its a disingenuous argument intended to discredit leave.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,933
    What about support for AV amongst Remain and leave voters? :smiley:
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 15,917
    Time for mandatory metrification!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,933
    edited December 2017

    Time for mandatory metrification!

    Na. Miles and pints are just fine.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,267
    A downward spiral if ever I saw one.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,039
    edited December 2017
    I am skeptical of that death penalty one - the overall support for death penalty figure has been pretty darn high, for it to be merely 53% of leave voters and 20% of remain voters

    From 2015:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32061822

    Support for the death penalty in Britain has dropped below 50% for the first time on record, an annual opinion survey says.

    The NatCen British Social Attitudes Report found 48% of the 2,878 people it surveyed were in favour of capital punishment.

    It is the lowest figure since the survey began in 1983, when around 75% of people were in favour.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 7,510
    Interesting that there isn't much appetite for bringing back smoking in pubs. One of the best things Labour did in power, in my opinion.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 7,509
    To this crowd the wheel was a bad move.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 7,509
    Hope the govt introduces the ability to choose the colour of your passport. Funny to think if they had done that (which they could), there might have been no Brexit.

    I want a yellow one.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,039
    edited December 2017

    There seems to be a Star Wars cycle.

    A new film is trailed. Everyone gets very excited. Geeks endlessly analyse it for clues.

    The new film release date is announced. TV adverts are overwhelmed with Star Wars merchandising tie-ins. A&E is overwhelmed with hyperventiliating fanboys.

    The new film comes out. The ultra-dedicated attend midnight releases. Children are dressed as Ewoks. Gay men are dressed as Princess Leia.

    It comes out to rave reviews in all the newspapers. The public pour through the ticket halls to see this phenomenon.

    Everyone who actually sees it then decides it's a huge disappointment, that the franchise is waning and hopes that the next one will be a return to form.


    Everyone? Really?

    Obviously popularity is no guarantee of quality, but they wouldn't keep making so much money if everyone was hugely disappointed after the initial hype (that's why Ep 2 made so much less money than Ep 1). The Sonic cycle may indeed be a thing, but the difference is because there really were plenty of bad ones, they no longer have the profile of, say, Mario games, which have had fewer bad ones.

    Speaking personally, the people who get most disappointed by the movies tend to be ultra dedicated fans, since they piss all over the expanded universe books, games and various other stuff.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 9,023


    Nakedly partisan judicial decision.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 5,390
    FPT and somewhat connected with this post
    John_M said:

    Good afternoon all.
    I see we've had a resumption of the Brexit phoney wars, with dire warnings of this and that. I do feel it loses impact after a while.

    I wanted to make two points. One that a one percent underperform of the economy as we have had this year thanks to Brexit and will probably have going forward, and as Italy saw every time they voted Berlusconi, seems trivial but as it accumulates over a decade or so you get to the point when you realise you are not as well off as other countries are or as you should be. The second point is why Italians voted for Berlusconi when it should have been obvious he wasn't doing the country any good. He was a genuinely popular politician. Italians voted for him by and large for the same reasons as Britons voted for Brexit.

    So I think comparisons between Brexit Britain and Berlusconi Italy are valid. A further point is that as we leave the EU we will no longer have the same level of influence as Germany or France, but Italy of a similar population and size of economy as the UK is probably about right.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,614
    edited December 2017
    Jonathan said:

    Hope the govt introduces the ability to choose the colour of your passport. Funny to think if they had done that (which they could), there might have been no Brexit.

    I want a yellow one.

    You misunderstand the brexiteer mindset. It's not about their right to have a blue passport.

    It's important to them that you have a blue passport.

    That's the important thing.

    Take back control
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,614
    I think it's Sweden where people get to choose the colour of their passport
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,933
    Pong said:

    Jonathan said:

    Hope the govt introduces the ability to choose the colour of your passport. Funny to think if they had done that (which they could), there might have been no Brexit.

    I want a yellow one.

    That would never satisfy the brexiteers.

    It's important to them that *you* have a blue passport.

    For some reason.
    Is it? I’ve never heard that before.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,039

    The Strange case of the missing "Leavers are all a bunch of c*£"%s" thread.

    Well, it is old news.
  • Speaking personally, as a Leaver, my priority post Brexit is for the UK to tackle its ballooning and unsustainable deficit in the balance of payments, almost all of which is attributable to our deficit in the trade in goods within the EU.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 7,509
    rcs1000 said:

    I think it's Sweden where people get to choose the colour of their passport

    It's time that happened here and put one of the more pathetic whinges to bed.

    If it were yellow. I might spend less time rummaging for it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,779
    Pre-decimal currency. Good grief. I am 51 and don't remember it. Might as well campaign to get rid of colour TV.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 15,917
    FF43 said:

    FPT and somewhat connected with this post

    John_M said:

    Good afternoon all.
    I see we've had a resumption of the Brexit phoney wars, with dire warnings of this and that. I do feel it loses impact after a while.

    I wanted to make two points. One that a one percent underperform of the economy as we have had this year thanks to Brexit and will probably have going forward, and as Italy saw every time they voted Berlusconi, seems trivial but as it accumulates over a decade or so you get to the point when you realise you are not as well off as other countries are or as you should be. The second point is why Italians voted for Berlusconi when it should have been obvious he wasn't doing the country any good. He was a genuinely popular politician. Italians voted for him by and large for the same reasons as Britons voted for Brexit.

    So I think comparisons between Brexit Britain and Berlusconi Italy are valid. A further point is that as we leave the EU we will no longer have the same level of influence as Germany or France, but Italy of a similar population and size of economy as the UK is probably about right.
    In the mid 80s, Italy had the same population as France and the UK. Now it's 5-6 million lower.

    Perhaps losing Scotland and Northern Ireland would be a short cut to that new position that would avoid the slow decline.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,416
    I'm actually surprised by how low support for smoking in pubs is, leave or remain.

    I'd only support the death penalty for treason and terrorism, both crimes against the state.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,779
    FF43 said:

    FPT and somewhat connected with this post

    John_M said:

    Good afternoon all.
    I see we've had a resumption of the Brexit phoney wars, with dire warnings of this and that. I do feel it loses impact after a while.

    I wanted to make two points. One that a one percent underperform of the economy as we have had this year thanks to Brexit and will probably have going forward, and as Italy saw every time they voted Berlusconi, seems trivial but as it accumulates over a decade or so you get to the point when you realise you are not as well off as other countries are or as you should be. The second point is why Italians voted for Berlusconi when it should have been obvious he wasn't doing the country any good. He was a genuinely popular politician. Italians voted for him by and large for the same reasons as Britons voted for Brexit.

    So I think comparisons between Brexit Britain and Berlusconi Italy are valid. A further point is that as we leave the EU we will no longer have the same level of influence as Germany or France, but Italy of a similar population and size of economy as the UK is probably about right.
    Indeed. Much speculation about the next election and Brexit. By 2022 the most important thing which has happened this year is that it has been yet another year of real wage decline.
    It is this which the government needs to solve to get re-elected, regardless of Brexit.
    The portents do not look good.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 8,846
    For those of you with bets on Premier League managers/coaches having P45s for Christmas.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 7,509
    MaxPB said:

    I'm actually surprised by how low support for smoking in pubs is, leave or remain.

    I'd only support the death penalty for treason and terrorism, both crimes against the state.

    Smoking in pubs was shit. A clear case where modern life is better Travel abroad and rediscover how truly awful it is.
  • MaxPB said:

    I'm actually surprised by how low support for smoking in pubs is, leave or remain.

    I'd only support the death penalty for treason and terrorism, both crimes against the state.

    I find it odd that you regard crimes against the state as being so much more reprehensible than crimes against people. I suppose it figures though, given that the defining characteristic of Leavers is a strong sense of nationalism. I imagine our descendants will look back at this attitude with the same bemusement that we now view harsh attitudes towards crimes against religion, such as blasphemy and apostasy.
  • FF43 said:

    FPT and somewhat connected with this post

    John_M said:

    Good afternoon all.
    I see we've had a resumption of the Brexit phoney wars, with dire warnings of this and that. I do feel it loses impact after a while.

    I wanted to make two points. One that a one percent underperform of the economy as we have had this year thanks to Brexit and will probably have going forward, and as Italy saw every time they voted Berlusconi, seems trivial but as it accumulates over a decade or so you get to the point when you realise you are not as well off as other countries are or as you should be. The second point is why Italians voted for Berlusconi when it should have been obvious he wasn't doing the country any good. He was a genuinely popular politician. Italians voted for him by and large for the same reasons as Britons voted for Brexit.

    So I think comparisons between Brexit Britain and Berlusconi Italy are valid. A further point is that as we leave the EU we will no longer have the same level of influence as Germany or France, but Italy of a similar population and size of economy as the UK is probably about right.
    In the mid 80s, Italy had the same population as France and the UK. Now it's 5-6 million lower.

    Perhaps losing Scotland and Northern Ireland would be a short cut to that new position that would avoid the slow decline.
    If only every country could follow Italy's example the planet wouldn't be quite so fecked.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,039
    edited December 2017

    MaxPB said:

    I'm actually surprised by how low support for smoking in pubs is, leave or remain.

    I'd only support the death penalty for treason and terrorism, both crimes against the state.

    I find it odd that you regard crimes against the state as being so much more reprehensible than crimes against people. I suppose it figures though, given that the defining characteristic of Leavers is a strong sense of nationalism. I imagine our descendants will look back at this attitude with the same bemusement that we now view harsh attitudes towards crimes against religion, such as blasphemy and apostasy.
    That's possible, but many things we currently view as acceptable, even desirable, might be seen as mistaken in the future - history is not some path toward inevitable enlightenment. After all, some countries are getting harsher about things like blasphemy and apostasy, not less. Nationalism has given religion a run for its money in terms of powerful ideologies of the past few centuries, and crimes against the state, in whatever form, have long been regarded as more heinous than ordinary crimes, since long before the nation-state in its current form. It's not unusual to think treason or terrorism as more serious than crimes against individuals.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,614
    edited December 2017
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,039
    Jonathan said:

    MaxPB said:

    I'm actually surprised by how low support for smoking in pubs is, leave or remain.

    I'd only support the death penalty for treason and terrorism, both crimes against the state.

    Smoking in pubs was shit. A clear case where modern life is better Travel abroad and rediscover how truly awful it is.
    Indeed - it's not as though I enjoyed smokey places as a child, but as an adult used to people being able to smoke in very few places, when I do encounter places people can smoke freely, I'm amazed we ever thought it ok.
  • Regarding old money, the number of people who signed this petition says it all...

    https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/3445
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,039
    edited December 2017

    Regarding old money, the number of people who signed this petition says it all...

    https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/3445

    That's just sad, they didn't even know more than a few people to sign it with them.

    Out of interest I wonder what the top petitions from that government were:

    SOPHIES CHOICE. smear test lowered to 16
    Stop the badger cull
    Convicted London rioters should loose[sic] all benefits
    Drop the Health Bill
    Reconsider West Coast Mainline franchise decision

    (several don't appear to have been updated despite being scheduled for debate)

    People seem more active now though. the top 7 from 2015-2017 all have more signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions?parliament=2
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,207
    Alistair said:



    Nakedly partisan judicial decision.

    Why partisan? From that tweet thread it seemed as if an experience Dem yesterday convinced a GOP junior of something. The junior recanted, the judges considered it and made a decision

    That seems reasonable - without examining the ballot yourself it's difficult to claim it's clearly wrong (which is what you would need for "nakedly partisan")
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 564
    dixiedean said:

    Pre-decimal currency. Good grief. I am 51 and don't remember it. Might as well campaign to get rid of colour TV.

    I'm 51 too and I do remember sixpences, which for some reason weren't demonetized until a few years after decimalization, serving as 2½p pieces.

    My parents worked on the London buses at the time. They told me that for some reason London Transport didn't decimalize until three days after the rest of the country, so they had to collect fares in new money but account for them on their waybills in old.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,207

    MaxPB said:

    I'm actually surprised by how low support for smoking in pubs is, leave or remain.

    I'd only support the death penalty for treason and terrorism, both crimes against the state.

    I find it odd that you regard crimes against the state as being so much more reprehensible than crimes against people. I suppose it figures though, given that the defining characteristic of Leavers is a strong sense of nationalism. I imagine our descendants will look back at this attitude with the same bemusement that we now view harsh attitudes towards crimes against religion, such as blasphemy and apostasy.
    You mean tolerate and accept unspeakable punishments for them because it's politically convenient?
  • kle4 said:

    Regarding old money, the number of people who signed this petition says it all...

    https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/3445

    That's just sad, they didn't even know more than a few people to sign it with them.

    Out of interest I wonder what the top petitions from that government were:

    SOPHIES CHOICE. smear test lowered to 16
    Stop the badger cull
    Convicted London rioters should loose[sic] all benefits
    Drop the Health Bill
    Reconsider West Coast Mainline franchise decision

    (several don't appear to have been updated despite being scheduled for debate)

    People seem more active now though. the top 7 from 2015-2017 all have more signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions?parliament=2
    Actually, I started that petition as a piss-take and was most disappointed that it failed to take off.
  • The DM comments section really is something else:

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,039

    kle4 said:

    Regarding old money, the number of people who signed this petition says it all...

    https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/3445

    That's just sad, they didn't even know more than a few people to sign it with them.

    Out of interest I wonder what the top petitions from that government were:

    SOPHIES CHOICE. smear test lowered to 16
    Stop the badger cull
    Convicted London rioters should loose[sic] all benefits
    Drop the Health Bill
    Reconsider West Coast Mainline franchise decision

    (several don't appear to have been updated despite being scheduled for debate)

    People seem more active now though. the top 7 from 2015-2017 all have more signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions?parliament=2
    Actually, I started that petition as a piss-take and was most disappointed that it failed to take off.
    Not as sad, but unlucky then - you'd have expected more than that, even if only from others on a piss take.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512
    Interesting that restoration of the death penalty is the priority for not only a majority of Leavers but a fifth of Remain voters either. Of course we could not restore it inside the EU but we can outside it. Personally I would not consider it except for serial killers but clearly a significant number of voters would. 50 years after the 1960s reforms which abolished capital punishment and legalised homosexuality and abortion it is clear there is still public support for reversing the first reform, even if most voters believe the latter reforms were still the right things to do.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,039
    edited December 2017

    The DM comments section really is something else:

    Some good laughs though.

    'Lost respect for Harry and he is a traitor to his own country. The non German part that is'

    For gods sake people let the German thing go already!

    Surprised none of the top comments talk about his parentage.

    'He should start with giving up his place at the royal trough and go live a life of a leftie politician with his older divorced minx. Who knows maybe France would embrace them since they know how to treat the monarchy and their president is also married to an older woman'

    Older divorced minx? She's 3 years old for crying out loud DM reader.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,267
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    MaxPB said:

    I'm actually surprised by how low support for smoking in pubs is, leave or remain.

    I'd only support the death penalty for treason and terrorism, both crimes against the state.

    Smoking in pubs was shit. A clear case where modern life is better Travel abroad and rediscover how truly awful it is.
    Indeed - it's not as though I enjoyed smokey places as a child, but as an adult used to people being able to smoke in very few places, when I do encounter places people can smoke freely, I'm amazed we ever thought it ok.
    The worst nightmare was coming down an escalator hearing a tube train coming in to the platform, running for the train and just managing to make the carriage before the doors closed, then realising that you were in the smoking carriage. Before KX, obviously.
  • Speaking personally, as a Leaver, my priority post Brexit is for the UK to tackle its ballooning and unsustainable deficit in the balance of payments, almost all of which is attributable to our deficit in the trade in goods within the EU.

    I am a remainer but agree with you entirely on the problem but not the solution. I see a Norway option as the best but I am afraid we will end up with Turkey.so prefer status quo
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,039
    Scott_P said:
    Well I hope it was over something serious and not because he may have watched legal porn, albeit on an official laptop.
  • Scott_P said:
    Who cares? We're on a year old poll that shows all leavers are c@~&£$!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,039
    Scott_P said:
    Laura K beat you to it Faisal, I'm sorry.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512
    edited December 2017
    FF43 said:

    FPT and somewhat connected with this post

    John_M said:

    Good afternoon all.
    I see we've had a resumption of the Brexit phoney wars, with dire warnings of this and that. I do feel it loses impact after a while.

    I wanted to make two points. One that a one percent underperform of the economy as we have had this year thanks to Brexit and will probably have going forward, and as Italy saw every time they voted Berlusconi, seems trivial but as it accumulates over a decade or so you get to the point when you realise you are not as well off as other countries are or as you should be. The second point is why Italians voted for Berlusconi when it should have been obvious he wasn't doing the country any good. He was a genuinely popular politician. Italians voted for him by and large for the same reasons as Britons voted for Brexit.

    So I think comparisons between Brexit Britain and Berlusconi Italy are valid. A further point is that as we leave the EU we will no longer have the same level of influence as Germany or France, but Italy of a similar population and size of economy as the UK is probably about right.
    The Italian economy did not do that badly under Berlusconi actually, albeit he cut taxes and spent a lot so was more a populist than fiscal conservative but it tended to grow faster under him than it is now under the centre-left Renzi.

    Why would we no longer have the same influence as France and Germany? Indeed both are in the G7 as the UK is and also as Italy is too. The UK is also in the UN Security Council like France but unlike Germany and Italy.
  • Scott_P said:
    A resignation is for life, not just for Christmas.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,039
    edited December 2017
    Scott_P said:
    Message to all policeman - you should hold on to personal copies of police material to leak years later to the media to settle a grudge.

    I guess the outcome was that he misled people in his previous categorical denial, if this is the result though.
  • HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    FPT and somewhat connected with this post

    John_M said:

    Good afternoon all.
    I see we've had a resumption of the Brexit phoney wars, with dire warnings of this and that. I do feel it loses impact after a while.

    I wanted to make two points. One that a one percent underperform of the economy as we have had this year thanks to Brexit and will probably have going forward, and as Italy saw every time they voted Berlusconi, seems trivial but as it accumulates over a decade or so you get to the point when you realise you are not as well off as other countries are or as you should be. The second point is why Italians voted for Berlusconi when it should have been obvious he wasn't doing the country any good. He was a genuinely popular politician. Italians voted for him by and large for the same reasons as Britons voted for Brexit.

    So I think comparisons between Brexit Britain and Berlusconi Italy are valid. A further point is that as we leave the EU we will no longer have the same level of influence as Germany or France, but Italy of a similar population and size of economy as the UK is probably about right.
    The Italian economy did not do that badly under Berlusconi actually, albeit he cut taxes and spent a lot so was more a populist than fiscal conservative but it tended to grow faster under him than it is now under the centre-left Renzi.

    Why would we no longer have the same influence as France and Germany? Indeed both are in the G7 as the UK is and also as Italy is too. The UK is also in the UN Security Council like France but unlike Germany and Italy.
    Because as far as Remainers like FF43 are concerned it is a truth to be universally acknowledged that a country outside the EU must be less than a country inside the EU. We will just have to slum it with the other 94% of the world that hasn't seen the light of this particular religious fervour.
  • nielhnielh Posts: 886
    With regard to the death penalty, the government have arguably bought this back already by carrying out extra judicial executions of its own citizens in Syria.

  • kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Well I hope it was over something serious and not because he may have watched legal porn, albeit on an official laptop.
    Dont understand your point. Watching porn at work is a sack able offence in any workplace. Do it at home as much as you want.
  • Speaking personally, as a Leaver, my priority post Brexit is for the UK to tackle its ballooning and unsustainable deficit in the balance of payments, almost all of which is attributable to our deficit in the trade in goods within the EU.

    I am a remainer but agree with you entirely on the problem but not the solution. I see a Norway option as the best but I am afraid we will end up with Turkey.so prefer status quo
    The status quo is not a solution. It hasn't been for over 40 year and there is no reason to expect it suddenly will be now or in the future.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,933
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Message to all policeman - you should hold on to personal copies of police material to leak years later to the media to settle a grudge.

    I guess the outcome was that he misled people in his previous categorical denial, if this is the result though.
    Yeah, this stinks.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,267
    calum said:
    Surely he can sleep on it, if only for punters' sake.

    Anyhow, wasn't he only going to resign if DG was pushed?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 15,917
    IanB2 said:

    calum said:
    Surely he can sleep on it, if only for punters' sake.

    Anyhow, wasn't he only going to resign if DG was pushed?
    DG was pushed. His letter says he was 'asked to resign'.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 2,346
    IanB2 said:

    calum said:
    Surely he can sleep on it, if only for punters' sake.

    Anyhow, wasn't he only going to resign if DG was pushed?
    He was pushed. He was asked to resign.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512

    FF43 said:

    FPT and somewhat connected with this post

    John_M said:

    Good afternoon all.
    I see we've had a resumption of the Brexit phoney wars, with dire warnings of this and that. I do feel it loses impact after a while.

    I wanted to make two points. One that a one percent underperform of the economy as we have had this year thanks to Brexit and will probably have going forward, and as Italy saw every time they voted Berlusconi, seems trivial but as it accumulates over a decade or so you get to the point when you realise you are not as well off as other countries are or as you should be. The second point is why Italians voted for Berlusconi when it should have been obvious he wasn't doing the country any good. He was a genuinely popular politician. Italians voted for him by and large for the same reasons as Britons voted for Brexit.

    So I think comparisons between Brexit Britain and Berlusconi Italy are valid. A further point is that as we leave the EU we will no longer have the same level of influence as Germany or France, but Italy of a similar population and size of economy as the UK is probably about right.
    In the mid 80s, Italy had the same population as France and the UK. Now it's 5-6 million lower.

    Perhaps losing Scotland and Northern Ireland would be a short cut to that new position that would avoid the slow decline.
    That is entirely due to birthrate, the birthrate in France is 2.07 per woman, in the UK it is 1.88 per woman.

    In Italy and Germany it is lower at 1.44 and 1.45 respectively.

    With the SNP losing almost half their MPs in June and the DUP still the largest party in NI both Scotland and Northern Ireland's positions in the UK is secure.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,933
    New thread.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,267
    Guess the topic...

    Nou Fil

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 42,096
    nielh said:

    With regard to the death penalty, the government have arguably bought this back already by carrying out extra judicial executions of its own citizens in Syria.

    Can we extend it to conveyancing solicitors ?
  • RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Message to all policeman - you should hold on to personal copies of police material to leak years later to the media to settle a grudge.

    I guess the outcome was that he misled people in his previous categorical denial, if this is the result though.
    Yeah, this stinks.
    I agree. Green should have been sacked 10 years ago, when it first came out that he looked at frankie on his work's computer, not now because an ex copper kept hold of evidence that he should have destroyed.
  • kle4 said:

    I am skeptical of that death penalty one - the overall support for death penalty figure has been pretty darn high, for it to be merely 53% of leave voters and 20% of remain voters

    From 2015:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32061822

    Support for the death penalty in Britain has dropped below 50% for the first time on record, an annual opinion survey says.

    The NatCen British Social Attitudes Report found 48% of the 2,878 people it surveyed were in favour of capital punishment.

    It is the lowest figure since the survey began in 1983, when around 75% of people were in favour.

    But I think Stevef below is right. It correlates not with Brexit but with year of birth. As such I would expect to see it continue to fall as those born either side of the war start to die out. I don't think it necessarily correlates with age like so many other issues do because I think it is generally accepted by those born after abolition that it is a bad thing not to be returned to. So I do not see a reservoir of aging hippies ready to change their views on this.
  • tlg86 said:

    Interesting that there isn't much appetite for bringing back smoking in pubs. One of the best things Labour did in power, in my opinion.

    Introduced in Wales a year before England. Well done Wales Labour.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    FPT and somewhat connected with this post

    John_M said:

    Good afternoon all.
    I see we've had a resumption of the Brexit phoney wars, with dire warnings of this and that. I do feel it loses impact after a while.

    I wanted to make two points. One that a one percent underperform of the economy as we have had this year thanks to Brexit and will probably have going forward, and as Italy saw every time they voted Berlusconi, seems trivial but as it accumulates over a decade or so you get to the point when you realise you are not as well off as other countries are or as you should be. The second point is why Italians voted for Berlusconi when it should have been obvious he wasn't doing the country any good. He was a genuinely popular politician. Italians voted for him by and large for the same reasons as Britons voted for Brexit.

    So I think comparisons between Brexit Britain and Berlusconi Italy are valid. A further point is that as we leave the EU we will no longer have the same level of influence as Germany or France, but Italy of a similar population and size of economy as the UK is probably about right.
    The Italian economy did not do that badly under Berlusconi actually, albeit he cut taxes and spent a lot so was more a populist than fiscal conservative but it tended to grow faster under him than it is now under the centre-left Renzi.

    Why would we no longer have the same influence as France and Germany? Indeed both are in the G7 as the UK is and also as Italy is too. The UK is also in the UN Security Council like France but unlike Germany and Italy.
    Because as far as Remainers like FF43 are concerned it is a truth to be universally acknowledged that a country outside the EU must be less than a country inside the EU. We will just have to slum it with the other 94% of the world that hasn't seen the light of this particular religious fervour.
    Agree entirely
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,416

    MaxPB said:

    I'm actually surprised by how low support for smoking in pubs is, leave or remain.

    I'd only support the death penalty for treason and terrorism, both crimes against the state.

    I find it odd that you regard crimes against the state as being so much more reprehensible than crimes against people. I suppose it figures though, given that the defining characteristic of Leavers is a strong sense of nationalism. I imagine our descendants will look back at this attitude with the same bemusement that we now view harsh attitudes towards crimes against religion, such as blasphemy and apostasy.
    I guess the defining characteristic of remainers is wish for the UK to be subservient to a foreign power, just as they must be in real life. I imagine our descendants will look at what's happening in Germany and Sweden and thank us for getting out of the EU at the right time.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512

    kle4 said:

    I am skeptical of that death penalty one - the overall support for death penalty figure has been pretty darn high, for it to be merely 53% of leave voters and 20% of remain voters

    From 2015:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32061822

    Support for the death penalty in Britain has dropped below 50% for the first time on record, an annual opinion survey says.

    The NatCen British Social Attitudes Report found 48% of the 2,878 people it surveyed were in favour of capital punishment.

    It is the lowest figure since the survey began in 1983, when around 75% of people were in favour.

    But I think Stevef below is right. It correlates not with Brexit but with year of birth. As such I would expect to see it continue to fall as those born either side of the war start to die out. I don't think it necessarily correlates with age like so many other issues do because I think it is generally accepted by those born after abolition that it is a bad thing not to be returned to. So I do not see a reservoir of aging hippies ready to change their views on this.
    I would expect even under 30s might support the death penalty for serial killers
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,207
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Message to all policeman - you should hold on to personal copies of police material to leak years later to the media to settle a grudge.

    I guess the outcome was that he misled people in his previous categorical denial, if this is the result though.
    Reading the letter it's not that he mislead people in his denial, but that he omitted the fact the police had raised it with his lawyers in 2008.

    He seems bitter - and (if my reading is correct) - reasonably so in that he has been asked to resign for something very minor
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