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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This must be the Troll of the year

SystemSystem Posts: 3,967
edited December 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This must be the Troll of the year

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  • A period of silence would be welcome from Mr Verhofstadt.
  • Troll of the year?

    You've not seen my thread for tomorrow.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 18,059
    edited December 2017
    Mr Verhofstadt knows his audience. Rather better than Theresa May knows hers, it seems.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,207

    A period of silence would be welcome from Mr Verhofstadt.

    You would have thought that a senior politician involved in a delicate negotiation would be more circumspect

    Or maybe he's not involved... and he just wants to attract attention
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 4,234
    LOL
  • As long as we can get rid of the words 'European Union' on the cover I wouldn't mind if the passport was red and white stripes.

    Coming from a Toon supporter, that is a big statement
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 1,352
    I thought it was a very good reply to Mrs May`s recent stupid comments.
  • TomsToms Posts: 1,453
    s'true innit?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,267
    edited December 2017
    The Tories are never going to hear the end of this blue passport business. For younger people particularly, it will become a symbol of the foolishness of the elder generation.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 1,853
    IanB2 said:

    The Tories are never going to head the end of this blue passport business. For younger people particularly, it will become a symbol of the foolishness of the elder generation.

    That they appear to have thought of it as a 'quick win' just shows how out of touch they are.
  • TomsToms Posts: 1,453
    edited December 2017
    IanB2 said:

    The Tories are never going to head the end of this blue passport business. For younger people particularly, it will become a symbol of the foolishness of the elder generation.

    Will it be in the "tuition fee" category?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512
    IanB2 said:

    The Tories are never going to head the end of this blue passport business. For younger people particularly, it will become a symbol of the foolishness of the elder generation.

    The Tories are not going to lose any young people over blue passports, those annoyed by the change will almost all have voted for Corbyn or the LDs anyway. It is about shoring up the base after the compromises made to get through Phase 1 of the tells with the EU, nothing more
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,933
    Wouldn't surprise me if they've started designing unified passports. ;)
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 1,925
    edited December 2017
    Classic! Top class!!

    I really like these EU top dogs like Guy V and Donald Tusk. They exude class. Meanwhile, back in Blighty, let’s take you straight to John Redwood....
  • So far I've managed to ignore this passport nonsense but can someone enlighten me - is this really from Verhofstadt? If so, presumably he's taking the piss?

    Somebody needs to.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 15,402
    Let's see if he is still laughing when our cheque for £40 billion bounces......

    "Only joking...."
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,267
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Tories are never going to head the end of this blue passport business. For younger people particularly, it will become a symbol of the foolishness of the elder generation.

    The Tories are not going to lose any young people over blue passports, those annoyed by the change will almost all have voted for Corbyn or the LDs anyway. It is about shoring up the base after the compromises made to get through Phase 1 of the tells with the EU, nothing more
    It's not about 'annoying' people with the change, but is a potential symbol for the futility of the whole project. Never underestimate the importance of symbols in politics.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,933
    murali_s said:

    Classic! Top class!!

    I really like these EU top dogs like Guy V and Donald Tusk. They exude class. Meanwhile, back in Blighty, let’s take you straight to John Redwood....

    Guy Verhofstdadt, exude class? What planet are you on? :D
  • murali_s said:

    Classic! Top class!!

    I really like these EU top dogs like Guy V and Donald Tusk. They exude class. Meanwhile, back in Blighty, let’s take you straight to John Redwood....

    Verhofstadt certainly exudes something.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Tories are never going to head the end of this blue passport business. For younger people particularly, it will become a symbol of the foolishness of the elder generation.

    The Tories are not going to lose any young people over blue passports, those annoyed by the change will almost all have voted for Corbyn or the LDs anyway. It is about shoring up the base after the compromises made to get through Phase 1 of the tells with the EU, nothing more
    It's not about 'annoying' people with the change, but is a potential symbol for the futility of the whole project. Never underestimate the importance of symbols in politics.
    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 19,519
    IanB2 said:

    The Tories are never going to hear the end of this blue passport business. For younger people particularly, it will become a symbol of the foolishness of the elder generation.

    Definitely a First World Problem.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512
    edited December 2017
    murali_s said:

    Classic! Top class!!

    I really like these EU top dogs like Guy V and Donald Tusk. They exude class. Meanwhile, back in Blighty, let’s take you straight to John Redwood....

    Verhofstadt is not an EU top dog, he is former leader of the Liberals in the European Parliament.

    The top dogs in the EU are Jean-Claude Juncker as President of the Commission, then Donald Tusk as President of the European Council, then Antonio Tajani as President of the European Parliament along with Michel Barnier as chief Brexit negotiator with the UK.

    Verhofstadt can afford to troll as he has no real decision making power
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,460
    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,779
    Not bloody passports again. I'm tempted never to leave the country again.
    This will annoy remainers as I will become increasingly insular elderly and grumpy.
    This will annoy leavers as I will still have a burgundy passport with European Union written on it.
  • Sean_F said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Tories are never going to hear the end of this blue passport business. For younger people particularly, it will become a symbol of the foolishness of the elder generation.

    Definitely a First World Problem.
    At some point the Conservatives are going to need to signal some interest in people under 70. Evidently they don't think that's necessary just yet.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,267
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Tories are never going to head the end of this blue passport business. For younger people particularly, it will become a symbol of the foolishness of the elder generation.

    The Tories are not going to lose any young people over blue passports, those annoyed by the change will almost all have voted for Corbyn or the LDs anyway. It is about shoring up the base after the compromises made to get through Phase 1 of the tells with the EU, nothing more
    It's not about 'annoying' people with the change, but is a potential symbol for the futility of the whole project. Never underestimate the importance of symbols in politics.
    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers
    Doubtless the poll tax was symbolic of something good for many Tories. For all the good it did you.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 15,402
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Take comfort in having voted LEAVE to get rid of unelected asshats like Guy Verhofstadt. From 2019 he can do a stand-up tour of the UK if he wants a voice here......
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512

    Sean_F said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Tories are never going to hear the end of this blue passport business. For younger people particularly, it will become a symbol of the foolishness of the elder generation.

    Definitely a First World Problem.
    At some point the Conservatives are going to need to signal some interest in people under 70. Evidently they don't think that's necessary just yet.
    Even in 2017 the average age you were more likely to vote Tory than Labour was 47, not 70
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Tories are never going to head the end of this blue passport business. For younger people particularly, it will become a symbol of the foolishness of the elder generation.

    The Tories are not going to lose any young people over blue passports, those annoyed by the change will almost all have voted for Corbyn or the LDs anyway. It is about shoring up the base after the compromises made to get through Phase 1 of the tells with the EU, nothing more
    It's not about 'annoying' people with the change, but is a potential symbol for the futility of the whole project. Never underestimate the importance of symbols in politics.
    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers
    Doubtless the poll tax was symbolic of something good for many Tories. For all the good it did you.
    I did not notice 17 million people voting for the poll tax as they did for Leave!
  • tim80tim80 Posts: 93
    Verhofstadt appears to have a fascination with UK politics.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,460
    HYUFD said:


    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that

    I'm still waiting to see where we are "restoring sovereignty".

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 19,519

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Take comfort in having voted LEAVE to get rid of unelected asshats like Guy Verhofstadt. From 2019 he can do a stand-up tour of the UK if he wants a voice here......
    I'm more interested in getting rid of the reality of EU citizenship than its symbols.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that

    I'm still waiting to see where we are "restoring sovereignty".

    Beyond the passport in a whole range of areas once the transition period ends in 2021
  • It's no surprise this lark with the passport colour has become a source of international merriment at our expense. I blame silly old Theresa for feeding it in the first place. It's also rather contaminated Brexit itself, being a key component of the Brexit agenda from the start.
  • The photo is the passport of the United States of Europe which does.not exist
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 1,352
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that

    I'm still waiting to see where we are "restoring sovereignty".
    Beyond the passport in a whole range of areas once the transition period ends in 2021
    Well, certainly not in Parliament, where Mrs May`s sell-out to the Trump administration is cloaked in darkest secrecy.

    Getting a blue-covered passport is the only thing the Tories are being open about- It is their greatest triumph.

    At the same time as they distract everybody from their sell-out.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 245
    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Take comfort in having voted LEAVE to get rid of unelected asshats like Guy Verhofstadt. From 2019 he can do a stand-up tour of the UK if he wants a voice here......
    I'm more interested in getting rid of the reality of EU citizenship than its symbols.
    I think you will find that like all members of the European Parliament, he was elected.
  • Sean_F said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Tories are never going to hear the end of this blue passport business. For younger people particularly, it will become a symbol of the foolishness of the elder generation.

    Definitely a First World Problem.
    At some point the Conservatives are going to need to signal some interest in people under 70. Evidently they don't think that's necessary just yet.
    Like by abolishing stamp duty for first time buyers, that sort of thing?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 20,614

    murali_s said:

    Classic! Top class!!

    I really like these EU top dogs like Guy V and Donald Tusk. They exude class. Meanwhile, back in Blighty, let’s take you straight to John Redwood....

    Verhofstadt certainly exudes something.

    You beat me to it :smile:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512
    edited December 2017
    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that

    I'm still waiting to see where we are "restoring sovereignty".
    Beyond the passport in a whole range of areas once the transition period ends in 2021
    Well, certainly not in Parliament, where Mrs May`s sell-out to the Trump administration is cloaked in darkest secrecy.

    Getting a blue-covered passport is the only thing the Tories are being open about- It is their greatest triumph.

    At the same time as they distract everybody from their sell-out.
    Sell out to the Trump administration? The UK has just infuriated the Trump administration by voting against the US and Israel after voting against the US recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel at the U.N. Hence US Ambassador Nikki Haley refused the UK an invite to a reception yesterday for the 65 nations who voted with the US and Israel on the motion or abstained.

    A blue coloured passport will be followed by free movement replaced by work permits and the end of most ECJ jurisdiction over the UK once the transition period ends in 2021.
  • The photo is the passport of the United States of Europe which does.not exist

    Yet.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 19,519
    Fenman said:

    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Take comfort in having voted LEAVE to get rid of unelected asshats like Guy Verhofstadt. From 2019 he can do a stand-up tour of the UK if he wants a voice here......
    I'm more interested in getting rid of the reality of EU citizenship than its symbols.
    I think you will find that like all members of the European Parliament, he was elected.
    Did I suggest that he wasn't?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 19,519
    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that

    I'm still waiting to see where we are "restoring sovereignty".
    Beyond the passport in a whole range of areas once the transition period ends in 2021
    Well, certainly not in Parliament, where Mrs May`s sell-out to the Trump administration is cloaked in darkest secrecy.

    Getting a blue-covered passport is the only thing the Tories are being open about- It is their greatest triumph.

    At the same time as they distract everybody from their sell-out.
    Which sell out is this?
  • HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512
    edited December 2017

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 1,853
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    It will be a symbol of our international irrelevance and impoverishment.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 1,188
    edited December 2017
    Anyone got this on their Christmas list?


  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512
    edited December 2017

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    It will be a symbol of our international irrelevance and impoverishment.
    Are we more irrelevant and impoverished as an independent nation which is a member of the UN Security Council, the G7 and G20 and the 5th largest economy in the world with arguably the greatest city in the world as our capital or as 1 of 27 states of the European Union?
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,124

    Pass the port?

    Yes, please.

  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 1,853
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    It will be a symbol of our international irrelevance and impoverishment.
    Are we more irrelevant and impoverished as an independent nation which is a member of the UN Security Council, the G7 and G20 and the 5th largest economy in the world with arguably the greatest city in the world as our capital or as 1 of 27 states of the European Union?
    Though I would guess, our position on the security council will increasingly be questioned from now on.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 4,234
    @PClipp the suspense is killing us. The Trump sellout was ... ?
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 1,188
    edited December 2017
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    It will be a symbol of our international irrelevance and impoverishment.
    Are we more irrelevant and impoverished as an independent nation which is a member of the UN Security Council, the G7 and G20 and the 5th largest economy in the world with arguably the greatest city in the world as our capital or as 1 of 27 states of the European Union?
    The UK is now the 6th largest economy in the world, at least according to Philip Hammond:

    UK officially falls out of world’s top five economies, Government admits

    That'll be the impoverishment starting already!

  • Pass the port?

    Yes, please.

    Non of this eurobooze thank you very much! Scotch Whisky, London Gin and English Ale is more than enough for anyone.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 844
    And they say that BoJo is unprofessional.

    Couldn't be happier we're leaving.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    What "EU Passport?" The people who decided to have the United Kingdom passport Burgundy is the United Kingdom. And distinctive how? Same size/format/bilingual/biometric as now - it'll look exactly the bloody same.

    It's symbolic alright- of how utterly irrelevant this passport issue is apart from to headbangers. That headbangers and CCHQ parrots such as your good self are so Proud of this Achievement is genuinely funny.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,207

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    It will be a symbol of our international irrelevance and impoverishment.
    Are we more irrelevant and impoverished as an independent nation which is a member of the UN Security Council, the G7 and G20 and the 5th largest economy in the world with arguably the greatest city in the world as our capital or as 1 of 27 states of the European Union?
    Though I would guess, our position on the security council will increasingly be questioned from now on.
    I guess we'll just have to veto any attempts to kick us off then
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512
    edited December 2017

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    It will be a symbol of our international irrelevance and impoverishment.
    Are we more irrelevant and impoverished as an independent nation which is a member of the UN Security Council, the G7 and G20 and the 5th largest economy in the world with arguably the greatest city in the world as our capital or as 1 of 27 states of the European Union?
    Though I would guess, our position on the security council will increasingly be questioned from now on.
    It can't be, once you are a permanent member of the UN Security Council with veto power, as we are, you cannot be removed
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512
    edited December 2017

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    It will be a symbol of our international irrelevance and impoverishment.
    Are we more irrelevant and impoverished as an independent nation which is a member of the UN Security Council, the G7 and G20 and the 5th largest economy in the world with arguably the greatest city in the world as our capital or as 1 of 27 states of the European Union?
    The UK is now the 6th largest economy in the world, at least according to Philip Hammond:

    UK officially falls out of world’s top five economies, Government admits

    That'll be the impoverishment starting already!
    Depends which figures you look at, on some we are still the 5th and with just 4% unemployment, one of the lowest in the G7, we are certainly far from impoverished
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 4,234

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    What "EU Passport?" The people who decided to have the United Kingdom passport Burgundy is the United Kingdom. And distinctive how? Same size/format/bilingual/biometric as now - it'll look exactly the bloody same.

    It's symbolic alright- of how utterly irrelevant this passport issue is apart from to headbangers. That headbangers and CCHQ parrots such as your good self are so Proud of this Achievement is genuinely funny.
    And you are going to clench your tiny hands into fists of rage and scream and scream and scream day after day after day until it is clear beyond any possible doubt how UTTERLY IRRELEVANT the issue is, by the sound of it.

    Your Random Capitalization looks a bit Odd, btw.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    What "EU Passport?" The people who decided to have the United Kingdom passport Burgundy is the United Kingdom. And distinctive how? Same size/format/bilingual/biometric as now - it'll look exactly the bloody same.

    It's symbolic alright- of how utterly irrelevant this passport issue is apart from to headbangers. That headbangers and CCHQ parrots such as your good self are so Proud of this Achievement is genuinely funny.
    The current passport is the same four in every EU nation and quite clearly has 'European Union' written in front of it, that will no longer be the case
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,207


    Pass the port?

    Yes, please.

    Non of this eurobooze thank you very much! Scotch Whisky, London Gin and English Ale is more than enough for anyone.
    Port was developed and traded by the Scots...

    (Graham from Glasgow, Warre's - the Symington family, Churchill's - the Cunynghame family from Ayrshire, Dow's - the Ramsey Dows)
  • Why is Mrs May such close friends and employs so many nasty people such as the gruesome twosome Nick Timothy & Fiona Hill and Damian Green?

    Kate Maltby, the Tory activist who made allegations of inappropriate behaviour against Damian Green, believes that his allies orchestrated a ferocious media onslaught in order to discredit her.

    The Observer understands that the Whitehall inquiry that led to the de facto deputy prime minister’s sacking last week was handed material, seen by Maltby, that suggested that Green’s supporters fuelled negative articles about her after she made her claims.

    Several sources familiar with the investigation said that the attacks on Maltby backfired and contributed to the first secretary of state’s forced departure. In her letter dismissing Green, Theresa May said that those affected by inappropriate behaviour should be able to “speak out if they need to”.

    Green and his closest aides deny any suggestion that they contributed in any way to the attacks on Maltby. But Maltby is adamant that collusion between his allies led to a hostile and personal article in the Daily Mail, headlined “One very pushy lady”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/23/damian-green-plotted-kate-maltby
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512
    edited December 2017
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    It will be a symbol of our international irrelevance and impoverishment.
    Are we more irrelevant and impoverished as an independent nation which is a member of the UN Security Council, the G7 and G20 and the 5th largest economy in the world with arguably the greatest city in the world as our capital or as 1 of 27 states of the European Union?
    Though I would guess, our position on the security council will increasingly be questioned from now on.
    I guess we'll just have to veto any attempts to kick us off then
    Indeed, the only other EU nation in our position as a permanent member of the UN Security Council is France, the EU is clearly hoping the French give up their seat for the European Union but I would like to see how that would go down in Paris
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 8,132
    edited December 2017
    HYUFD said:

    Are we more irrelevant and impoverished as an independent nation which is a member of the UN Security Council, the G7 and G20 and the 5th largest economy in the world with arguably the greatest city in the world as our capital or as 1 of 27 states of the European Union?

    Including us it's 28.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    It will be a symbol of our international irrelevance and impoverishment.
    Are we more irrelevant and impoverished as an independent nation which is a member of the UN Security Council, the G7 and G20 and the 5th largest economy in the world with arguably the greatest city in the world as our capital or as 1 of 27 states of the European Union?
    Though I would guess, our position on the security council will increasingly be questioned from now on.
    It can't be, once you are a permanent member of the UN Security Council with veto power, as we are, you cannot be removed
    Not correct, Taiwan was removed in 1971 and still doesn't have a seat at the UN, never mind as a Permanent Member of the SC.

    However I would argue in practice that our top seat at the UN was under more threat from a federal EU claiming it than from losing it by loss of influence. Even if we divorce from Scotland and Northern Ireland England and Wales would still be stronger than any comparable military power. India may come to rival us in time but (a) it has a fair way to go and (b) its ambitions remain quite localised in a way that ours are not.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 2,652
    The EU isn’t a member of the UN so the case for it having a SC seat is a bit weak.
  • This has amused me no end.

    Margaret Thatcher’s key foreign policy adviser has mocked commentators rejoicing over the decision to change the colour of the British passport, describing it as nostalgia driven by ageing Eurosceptics.

    Confirming it was Thatcher’s government who “chose” to ditch the blue passport in the 1980s – under no pressure from the European Union – Charles Powell said the clamour for the old-style travel document was “part of the nostalgia on which the predominantly elderly Brexit constituency thrives”.

    May had sought to end a mostly fraught political year on a triumphant note by announcing the return of navy passports after Brexit, describing them an expression of “independence and sovereignty”. However, by Saturday morning, her move to change the colour of new passports in 2019 was being attacked by some as a PR stunt, as it became clear there is no Brussels legislation stating that EU countries’ passports had to be a certain colour.

    Powell rebuked politicians and commentators who have greeted the announcement, saying: “So long as they are content with symbols, rather than substance, I see no harm in letting them have their way. Perhaps we should go the whole hog and reintroduce ambassadorial dress uniforms, as well as bowler hats and stiff collars for senior civil servants.”

    Powell, who served as private secretary to Thatcher from 1983 to 1990, added: “If we get their agreement to full alignment with the single market in return, it’s a good deal.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/23/blue-passport-brexit-pr-stunt-says-former-thatcher-aide-charles-powell
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512
    edited December 2017
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Are we more irrelevant and impoverished as an independent nation which is a member of the UN Security Council, the G7 and G20 and the 5th largest economy in the world with arguably the greatest city in the world as our capital or as 1 of 27 states of the European Union?

    Including us it's 28.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    It will be a symbol of our international irrelevance and impoverishment.
    Are we more irrelevant and impoverished as an states of the European Union?
    Though I would guess, our position on the security council will increasingly be questioned from now on.
    It can't be, once you are a permanent member of the UN Security Council with veto power, as we are, you cannot be removed
    Not correct, Taiwan was removed in 1971 and still doesn't have a seat at the UN, never mind as a Permanent Member of the SC.

    However I would argue in practice that our top seat at the UN was under more threat from a federal EU claiming it than from losing it by loss of influence. Even if we divorce from Scotland and Northern Ireland England and Wales would still be stronger than any comparable military power. India may come to rival us in time but (a) it has a fair way to go and (b) its ambitions remain quite localised in a way that ours are not.
    Taiwan was only removed because it never had a permanent seat in the first place. The Taiwanese government was just recognised as the Chinese government until it was clear the Nationalists were not going to defeat Mao's Communists and Beijing regained the permanent Chinese seat on the UN Security Council.

    More likely in the longer term India, Japan and Germany (if France has not given up its seat for the EU) will be added to the existing P5 of the US, Russia, France, the UK and China than we give up our permanent seat.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 2,126
    edited December 2017
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    What "EU Passport?" The people who decided to have the United Kingdom passport Burgundy is the United Kingdom. And distinctive how? Same size/format/bilingual/biometric as now - it'll look exactly the bloody same.

    It's symbolic alright- of how utterly irrelevant this passport issue is apart from to headbangers. That headbangers and CCHQ parrots such as your good self are so Proud of this Achievement is genuinely funny.
    The current passport is the same four in every EU nation and quite clearly has 'European Union' written in front of it, that will no longer be the case
    Oh wow! So the chief 'gain' of leaving the EU is that we don't have to have European Union written on our passports!

    As has been noted before, this is change to our passports has been achieved in large part by voters who never use a passport anyway. Marvellous!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 26,204
    edited December 2017
    I see 'passports' continues to annoy all the right people. I suspect because its one of the first visual signals that Brexit is going ahead.

    Of course the overall design is determined by the ICAO where the UK (in its own right) is a 'State of Chief Importance' (one of 11)

    The EU isn't a member, just 'an observer'.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,207
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Are we more irrelevant and impoverished as an independent nation which is a member of the UN Security Council, the G7 and G20 and the 5th largest economy in the world with arguably the greatest city in the world as our capital or as 1 of 27 states of the European Union?

    Including us it's 28.
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive?

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    It will be a symbol of our international irrelevance and impoverishment.
    Are we more irrelevant and impoverished as an independent nation which is a member of the UN Security Council, the G7 and G20 and the 5th largest economy in the world with arguably the greatest city in the world as our capital or as 1 of 27 states of the European Union?
    Though I would guess, our position on the security council will increasingly be questioned from now on.
    It can't be, once you are a permanent member of the UN Security Council with veto power, as we are, you cannot be removed
    Not correct, Taiwan was removed in 1971 and still doesn't have a seat at the UN, never mind as a Permanent Member of the SC.

    However I would argue in practice that our top seat at the UN was under more threat from a federal EU claiming it than from losing it by loss of influence. Even if we divorce from Scotland and Northern Ireland England and Wales would still be stronger than any comparable military power. India may come to rival us in time but (a) it has a fair way to go and (b) its ambitions remain quite localised in a way that ours are not.
    It's not quite of simple as that: it was deemed that the "true" Chinese government was the one based in Beijing not the one in Taipei. The only circumstance that would be -as you suggest - would be the absorption of the UK into another country

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 8,132
    edited December 2017
    alex. said:

    The EU isn’t a member of the UN so the case for it having a SC seat is a bit weak.

    It has asked to take over the SC seats of France and the UK in the past though. Why they thought going from two votes (40% of the de facto top tier, both with veto power) to one vote (25% at best of the top tier, in all probability 1 in 192 without veto power) would enhance the prestige and diplomatic reach of Europe is unclear, but it was requested. I've got a feeling the idea was first mooted in about 2008 but can't find the link.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 8,132
    edited December 2017
    HYUFD said:

    Taiwan was only removed because it never had a permanent seat in the first place. The Taiwanese government was just recognised as the Chinese government until it was clear the Nationalists were not going to defeat Mao's Communists and Beijing regained the permanent Chinese seat on the UN Security Council.

    More likely in the longer term India, Japan and Germany (if France has not given up its seat for the EU) will be added to the existing P5 of the US, Russia, France, the UK and China than we give up our permanent seat.

    'Regained?' They never had it!

    My point was however that if vetoes applied in such cases then Taiwan would still have China's seat, because it could have vetoed UN recognition of Mao. Your argument therefore didn't work.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,207

    Why is Mrs May such close friends and employs so many nasty people such as the gruesome twosome Nick Timothy & Fiona Hill and Damian Green?

    Kate Maltby, the Tory activist who made allegations of inappropriate behaviour against Damian Green, believes that his allies orchestrated a ferocious media onslaught in order to discredit her.

    The Observer understands that the Whitehall inquiry that led to the de facto deputy prime minister’s sacking last week was handed material, seen by Maltby, that suggested that Green’s supporters fuelled negative articles about her after she made her claims.

    Several sources familiar with the investigation said that the attacks on Maltby backfired and contributed to the first secretary of state’s forced departure. In her letter dismissing Green, Theresa May said that those affected by inappropriate behaviour should be able to “speak out if they need to”.

    Green and his closest aides deny any suggestion that they contributed in any way to the attacks on Maltby. But Maltby is adamant that collusion between his allies led to a hostile and personal article in the Daily Mail, headlined “One very pushy lady”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/23/damian-green-plotted-kate-maltby

    That article says that he "lied about the fact that porn was found on his computer"

    I thought he lied about being told that porn had been found?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,207

    Why is Mrs May such close friends and employs so many nasty people such as the gruesome twosome Nick Timothy & Fiona Hill and Damian Green?

    Kate Maltby, the Tory activist who made allegations of inappropriate behaviour against Damian Green, believes that his allies orchestrated a ferocious media onslaught in order to discredit her.

    The Observer understands that the Whitehall inquiry that led to the de facto deputy prime minister’s sacking last week was handed material, seen by Maltby, that suggested that Green’s supporters fuelled negative articles about her after she made her claims.

    Several sources familiar with the investigation said that the attacks on Maltby backfired and contributed to the first secretary of state’s forced departure. In her letter dismissing Green, Theresa May said that those affected by inappropriate behaviour should be able to “speak out if they need to”.

    Green and his closest aides deny any suggestion that they contributed in any way to the attacks on Maltby. But Maltby is adamant that collusion between his allies led to a hostile and personal article in the Daily Mail, headlined “One very pushy lady”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/23/damian-green-plotted-kate-maltby

    That article says that he "lied about the fact that porn was found on his computer"

    I thought he lied about being told that porn had been found?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    What "EU Passport?" The people who decided to have the United Kingdom passport Burgundy is the United Kingdom. And distinctive how? Same size/format/bilingual/biometric as now - it'll look exactly the bloody same.

    It's symbolic alright- of how utterly irrelevant this passport issue is apart from to headbangers. That headbangers and CCHQ parrots such as your good self are so Proud of this Achievement is genuinely funny.
    The current passport is the same four in every EU nation and quite clearly has 'European Union' written in front of it, that will no longer be the case
    Oh wow! So the chief 'gain' of leaving the EU is that we don't have to have European Union written on our passports!

    As has been noted before, this is change to our passports has been achieved in large part by voters who never use a passport anyway. Marvellous!
    As a symbolic move, no longer having 'European Union' on our passport is pretty significant
  • ydoethur said:

    alex. said:

    The EU isn’t a member of the UN so the case for it having a SC seat is a bit weak.

    It has asked to take over the SC seats of France and the UK in the past though. Why they thought going from two votes (40%, both with veto power) to one vote (25% at best, in all probability 1 in 192 without veto power) would enhance the prestige and diplomatic reach of Europe is unclear, but it was requested. I've got a feeling the idea was first mooted in about 2008 but can't find the link.
    It pops up from time to time: - 2011:

    European MPs have voted on Wednesday in favor of requesting their own permanent representative at the UN Security Council.

    https://www.rt.com/news/eu-un-security-council-representative/
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    What "EU Passport?" The people who decided to have the United Kingdom passport Burgundy is the United Kingdom. And distinctive how? Same size/format/bilingual/biometric as now - it'll look exactly the bloody same.

    It's symbolic alright- of how utterly irrelevant this passport issue is apart from to headbangers. That headbangers and CCHQ parrots such as your good self are so Proud of this Achievement is genuinely funny.
    The current passport is the same four in every EU nation and quite clearly has 'European Union' written in front of it, that will no longer be the case
    Oh wow! So the chief 'gain' of leaving the EU is that we don't have to have European Union written on our passports!

    As has been noted before, this is change to our passports has been achieved in large part by voters who never use a passport anyway. Marvellous!
    As a symbolic move, no longer having 'European Union' on our passport is pretty significant
    I think thats what has the Remainers prostrate with apoplexy....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 8,132
    Charles said:

    Why is Mrs May such close friends and employs so many nasty people such as the gruesome twosome Nick Timothy & Fiona Hill and Damian Green?

    Kate Maltby, the Tory activist who made allegations of inappropriate behaviour against Damian Green, believes that his allies orchestrated a ferocious media onslaught in order to discredit her.

    The Observer understands that the Whitehall inquiry that led to the de facto deputy prime minister’s sacking last week was handed material, seen by Maltby, that suggested that Green’s supporters fuelled negative articles about her after she made her claims.

    Several sources familiar with the investigation said that the attacks on Maltby backfired and contributed to the first secretary of state’s forced departure. In her letter dismissing Green, Theresa May said that those affected by inappropriate behaviour should be able to “speak out if they need to”.

    Green and his closest aides deny any suggestion that they contributed in any way to the attacks on Maltby. But Maltby is adamant that collusion between his allies led to a hostile and personal article in the Daily Mail, headlined “One very pushy lady”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/23/damian-green-plotted-kate-maltby

    That article says that he "lied about the fact that porn was found on his computer"

    I thought he lied about being told that porn had been found?
    Yes, but it's the Guardian.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    What "EU Passport?" The people who decided to have the United Kingdom passport Burgundy is the United Kingdom. And distinctive how? Same size/format/bilingual/biometric as now - it'll look exactly the bloody same.

    It's symbolic alright- of how utterly irrelevant this passport issue is apart from to headbangers. That headbangers and CCHQ parrots such as your good self are so Proud of this Achievement is genuinely funny.
    The current passport is the same four in every EU nation and quite clearly has 'European Union' written in front of it, that will no longer be the case
    Oh wow! So the chief 'gain' of leaving the EU is that we don't have to have European Union written on our passports!

    As has been noted before, this is change to our passports has been achieved in large part by voters who never use a passport anyway. Marvellous!
    Perhaps if we hadn't been forced to have 'European Union' written across the front of our passports we wouldn't have voted Leave?

    I don't recall seeing 'NAFTA' written on the front of a Canadian passport.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 4,234

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    What "EU Passport?" The people who decided to have the United Kingdom passport Burgundy is the United Kingdom. And distinctive how? Same size/format/bilingual/biometric as now - it'll look exactly the bloody same.

    It's symbolic alright- of how utterly irrelevant this passport issue is apart from to headbangers. That headbangers and CCHQ parrots such as your good self are so Proud of this Achievement is genuinely funny.
    The current passport is the same four in every EU nation and quite clearly has 'European Union' written in front of it, that will no longer be the case
    Oh wow! So the chief 'gain' of leaving the EU is that we don't have to have European Union written on our passports!

    As has been noted before, this is change to our passports has been achieved in large part by voters who never use a passport anyway. Marvellous!
    The snobbery in your final paragraph is so thick you could cut it with a knife, and outdated by about 50 years (which I thought was meant to be a UKIP thing) - you will find that even the poorest white trash these days tear themselves away from their benefits-sponsored 67" plasma tvs to roast themselves in Benidorm for a fortnight.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 1,217

    ydoethur said:

    alex. said:

    The EU isn’t a member of the UN so the case for it having a SC seat is a bit weak.

    It has asked to take over the SC seats of France and the UK in the past though. Why they thought going from two votes (40%, both with veto power) to one vote (25% at best, in all probability 1 in 192 without veto power) would enhance the prestige and diplomatic reach of Europe is unclear, but it was requested. I've got a feeling the idea was first mooted in about 2008 but can't find the link.
    It pops up from time to time: - 2011:

    European MPs have voted on Wednesday in favor of requesting their own permanent representative at the UN Security Council.

    https://www.rt.com/news/eu-un-security-council-representative/
    The European Parliament asks for their own permanent representative on the UNSC!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512
    edited December 2017
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taiwan was only removed because it never had a permanent seat in the first place. The Taiwanese government was just recognised as the Chinese government until it was clear the Nationalists were not going to defeat Mao's Communists and Beijing regained the permanent Chinese seat on the UN Security Council.

    More likely in the longer term India, Japan and Germany (if France has not given up its seat for the EU) will be added to the existing P5 of the US, Russia, France, the UK and China than we give up our permanent seat.

    'Regained?' They never had it!

    My point was however that if vetoes applied in such cases then Taiwan would still have China's seat, because it could have vetoed UN recognition of Mao. Your argument therefore didn't work.
    Under UN resolution 1668 it took a 2/3 vote of the UN General Assembly to recognise the government of the Peoples Republic of China in Beijing rather than the Republic of China in Taiwan as the official Chinese delegation, yet China did not lose its permanent seat on the UN Security Council, it was just a different government recognised as holding it.

    The equivalent would be Corbyn taking office and the Tories forming a government in exile on the Isle of Wight say and the UN for a time recognising the latter, rather than the former, as holding the UK seat on the Security Council, not the UK losing that seat altogether
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 1,217
    Delusions of grandeur.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    What "EU Passport?" The people who decided to have the United Kingdom passport Burgundy is the United Kingdom. And distinctive how? Same size/format/bilingual/biometric as now - it'll look exactly the bloody same.

    It's symbolic alright- of how utterly irrelevant this passport issue is apart from to headbangers. That headbangers and CCHQ parrots such as your good self are so Proud of this Achievement is genuinely funny.
    And you are going to clench your tiny hands into fists of rage and scream and scream and scream day after day after day until it is clear beyond any possible doubt how UTTERLY IRRELEVANT the issue is, by the sound of it.

    Your Random Capitalization looks a bit Odd, btw.
    It's a Passport. Who cares what bloody colour it is. Does a blue one or a burgundy one or a pink with polka dots one make it any different? Literally nothing will change with our Blue ones - apart from not having the words European Union on the front. Which I voted to leave btw, so unsure about your fists of rage point - I don't get why HYUFD et al are so buzzing about the colour.

    We wanted a blue one why didn't we make them blue? We could have done, so it's not about colour is it? Because colour is irrelevant
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,933
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taiwan was only removed because it never had a permanent seat in the first place. The Taiwanese government was just recognised as the Chinese government until it was clear the Nationalists were not going to defeat Mao's Communists and Beijing regained the permanent Chinese seat on the UN Security Council.

    More likely in the longer term India, Japan and Germany (if France has not given up its seat for the EU) will be added to the existing P5 of the US, Russia, France, the UK and China than we give up our permanent seat.

    'Regained?' They never had it!

    My point was however that if vetoes applied in such cases then Taiwan would still have China's seat, because it could have vetoed UN recognition of Mao. Your argument therefore didn't work.
    Under UN resolution 1668 it took a 2/3 vote of the UN General Assembly to recognise the government of the Peoples Republic of China in Beijing rather than the Republic of China in Taiwan as the official Chinese delegation, yet China did not lose its permanent seat on the UN Security Council, it was just a different government recognised as holding it.

    The equivalent would be Corbyn taking office and the Tories forming a government in exile on the Isle of Wight say and the UN for a time recognising the latter, rather than the former, as holding the UK seat on the Security Council, not the UK losing that seat altogether
    Can't the PB Tory Government in Exile be somewhere more tropical? :D
  • calum said:
    Oh dear, that's going to annoy an awful lot of Tories.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,933

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    What "EU Passport?" The people who decided to have the United Kingdom passport Burgundy is the United Kingdom. And distinctive how? Same size/format/bilingual/biometric as now - it'll look exactly the bloody same.

    It's symbolic alright- of how utterly irrelevant this passport issue is apart from to headbangers. That headbangers and CCHQ parrots such as your good self are so Proud of this Achievement is genuinely funny.
    And you are going to clench your tiny hands into fists of rage and scream and scream and scream day after day after day until it is clear beyond any possible doubt how UTTERLY IRRELEVANT the issue is, by the sound of it.

    Your Random Capitalization looks a bit Odd, btw.
    It's a Passport. Who cares what bloody colour it is. Does a blue one or a burgundy one or a pink with polka dots one make it any different? Literally nothing will change with our Blue ones - apart from not having the words European Union on the front. Which I voted to leave btw, so unsure about your fists of rage point - I don't get why HYUFD et al are so buzzing about the colour.

    We wanted a blue one why didn't we make them blue? We could have done, so it's not about colour is it? Because colour is irrelevant
    If colour is irrelevant, why do the EU recommend one? The answer is in the picture in the header. ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    What "EU Passport?" The people who decided to have the United Kingdom passport Burgundy is the United Kingdom. And distinctive how? Same size/format/bilingual/biometric as now - it'll look exactly the bloody same.

    It's symbolic alright- of how utterly irrelevant this passport issue is apart from to headbangers. That headbangers and CCHQ parrots such as your good self are so Proud of this Achievement is genuinely funny.
    The current passport is the same four in every EU nation and quite clearly has 'European Union' written in front of it, that will no longer be the case
    Oh wow! So the chief 'gain' of leaving the EU is that we don't have to have European Union written on our passports!

    As has been noted before, this is change to our passports has been achieved in large part by voters who never use a passport anyway. Marvellous!
    As a symbolic move, no longer having 'European Union' on our passport is pretty significant
    I think thats what has the Remainers prostrate with apoplexy....
    They call it an 'irrelevant move' but the symbolism clearly grates with them
  • alex.alex. Posts: 2,652
    edited December 2017
    A technical point but a Security Council veto is not absolute. It can be overturned by a vote in the General Assembly. It was such a vote that legalised International participation in the Korean War.

    Re: the EU. One only needs to read the U.N. charter to see why the EU could not have a seat on the SC. For a start it isn’t a state, but even beyond that U.N. membership imposes obligations on members, particularly military obligations, which are beyond the current competences of the European Commission (the assumed representative) to deliver.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 608
    ydoethur said:

    My point was however that if vetoes applied in such cases then Taiwan would still have China's seat, because it could have vetoed UN recognition of Mao. Your argument therefore didn't work.

    The recognition decision was carried out by a general assembly vote, where nobody has a veto. Needed an exaggerated majority though (60%? 66%?)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 2,126
    edited December 2017
    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    What "EU Passport?" The people who decided to have the United Kingdom passport Burgundy is the United Kingdom. And distinctive how? Same size/format/bilingual/biometric as now - it'll look exactly the bloody same.

    It's symbolic alright- of how utterly irrelevant this passport issue is apart from to headbangers. That headbangers and CCHQ parrots such as your good self are so Proud of this Achievement is genuinely funny.
    The current passport is the same four in every EU nation and quite clearly has 'European Union' written in front of it, that will no longer be the case
    Oh wow! So the chief 'gain' of leaving the EU is that we don't have to have European Union written on our passports!

    As has been noted before, this is change to our passports has been achieved in large part by voters who never use a passport anyway. Marvellous!
    The snobbery in your final paragraph is so thick you could cut it with a knife, and outdated by about 50 years (which I thought was meant to be a UKIP thing) - you will find that even the poorest white trash these days tear themselves away from their benefits-sponsored 67" plasma tvs to roast themselves in Benidorm for a fortnight.
    It's nothing to do with "white trash"; it's an age thing. Statistically undeniable that the over 65s are much less likely to travel - and were much more likely to vote leave. Case proven.

    That you brought up the term "white trash" is particularly telling.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 4,234

    calum said:
    Oh dear, that's going to annoy an awful lot of Tories.
    Starting with me, and everybody I know. And that's quite a lot of votes.

    I was out with the Beaufort on Wednesday, for a thoroughly enjoyable day of trail hunting.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taiwan was only removed because it never had a permanent seat in the first place. The Taiwanese government was just recognised as the Chinese government until it was clear the Nationalists were not going to defeat Mao's Communists and Beijing regained the permanent Chinese seat on the UN Security Council.

    More likely in the longer term India, Japan and Germany (if France has not given up its seat for the EU) will be added to the existing P5 of the US, Russia, France, the UK and China than we give up our permanent seat.

    'Regained?' They never had it!

    My point was however that if vetoes applied in such cases then Taiwan would still have China's seat, because it could have vetoed UN recognition of Mao. Your argument therefore didn't work.
    Under UN resolution 1668 it took a 2/3 vote of the UN General Assembly to recognise the government of the Peoples Republic of China in Beijing rather than the Republic of China in Taiwan as the official Chinese delegation, yet China did not lose its permanent seat on the UN Security Council, it was just a different government recognised as holding it.

    The equivalent would be Corbyn taking office and the Tories forming a government in exile on the Isle of Wight say and the UN for a time recognising the latter, rather than the former, as holding the UK seat on the Security Council, not the UK losing that seat altogether
    Can't the PB Tory Government in Exile be somewhere more tropical? :D
    I expect most Tory PBers will be in exile in Singapore or the Caribbean in reality yes but it is a bit easier to organise the resistance on the Isle of Wight
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 2,126

    calum said:
    Oh dear, that's going to annoy an awful lot of Tories.
    Another Labour policy adopted. Can't be that many left to pinch, surely?
  • RobD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    What "EU Passport?" The people who decided to have the United Kingdom passport Burgundy is the United Kingdom. And distinctive how? Same size/format/bilingual/biometric as now - it'll look exactly the bloody same.

    It's symbolic alright- of how utterly irrelevant this passport issue is apart from to headbangers. That headbangers and CCHQ parrots such as your good self are so Proud of this Achievement is genuinely funny.
    And you are going to clench your tiny hands into fists of rage and scream and scream and scream day after day after day until it is clear beyond any possible doubt how UTTERLY IRRELEVANT the issue is, by the sound of it.

    Your Random Capitalization looks a bit Odd, btw.
    It's a Passport. Who cares what bloody colour it is. Does a blue one or a burgundy one or a pink with polka dots one make it any different? Literally nothing will change with our Blue ones - apart from not having the words European Union on the front. Which I voted to leave btw, so unsure about your fists of rage point - I don't get why HYUFD et al are so buzzing about the colour.

    We wanted a blue one why didn't we make them blue? We could have done, so it's not about colour is it? Because colour is irrelevant
    If colour is irrelevant, why do the EU recommend one? The answer is in the picture in the header. ;)
    Ask the people who actually did it. Lord Powell points to history and observes the Thatcher government chose to drop blue a decade before the European Union was created. And if burgundy is mandatory how come it isn't mandatory..?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,512
    edited December 2017

    calum said:
    Oh dear, that's going to annoy an awful lot of Tories.
    It would probably win more voters than it loses though, plenty of swing voters oppose foxhunting and most foxhunters would not dream of voting for Corbyn (and Tory MPs in rural seats will still promise to try and push for a Parliamentary vote to restore foxhunting anyway)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 18,174
    RobD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    It is a symbol of 'futility' for diehard Remainers but a symbol of the restoration of British sovereignty and identity for Leavers

    Really ?

    I didn't vote LEAVE to get a different passport.
    Most voted to restore sovereignty and a distinct British passport is part of that
    How will it be distinctive? It'll be blue. It could have been blue anyway. It'll still have French all over it - required by ICAO. It'll still be the same size, the same number of pages, the same biometrics as required by the Americans.

    It'll be exactly the same bar not having the words "European Union" on it. And bar the lengthy queues that we're likely to enjoy at border crossings.
    So it will be a different colour to the EU passport and be clearly a British passport rather than a European Union passport, which is symbolism enough in itself
    What "EU Passport?" The people who decided to have the United Kingdom passport Burgundy is the United Kingdom. And distinctive how? Same size/format/bilingual/biometric as now - it'll look exactly the bloody same.

    It's symbolic alright- of how utterly irrelevant this passport issue is apart from to headbangers. That headbangers and CCHQ parrots such as your good self are so Proud of this Achievement is genuinely funny.
    And you are going to clench your tiny hands into fists of rage and scream and scream and scream day after day after day until it is clear beyond any possible doubt how UTTERLY IRRELEVANT the issue is, by the sound of it.

    Your Random Capitalization looks a bit Odd, btw.
    It's a Passport. Who cares what bloody colour it is. Does a blue one or a burgundy one or a pink with polka dots one make it any different? Literally nothing will change with our Blue ones - apart from not having the words European Union on the front. Which I voted to leave btw, so unsure about your fists of rage point - I don't get why HYUFD et al are so buzzing about the colour.

    We wanted a blue one why didn't we make them blue? We could have done, so it's not about colour is it? Because colour is irrelevant
    If colour is irrelevant, why do the EU recommend one? The answer is in the picture in the header. ;)
    If colour is irrelevant, why do so many leavers want to change it in a retrograde step?

    I want to keep a burgundy passport; the proposed blue one looks absolutely naff. ;)
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    calum said:
    Oh dear, that's going to annoy an awful lot of Tories.
    Starting with me, and everybody I know. And that's quite a lot of votes.

    I was out with the Beaufort on Wednesday, for a thoroughly enjoyable day of trail hunting.
    Politically it is the right thing to do.

    I know quite a few Tories who say they were harmed by Mrs May's intervention on fox hunting during the campaign, coupled with the ivory ban, it made the Tories look nasty.
This discussion has been closed.