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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » In the absence of divine intervention defeated Alabama Republi

SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited December 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » In the absence of divine intervention defeated Alabama Republican Moore launches action to overturn result

Defeated Republican in Alabama, Roy Moore, launches action to nullify the result. https://t.co/XjsGswYgSM

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • First.

    Has this been done?



    I'm still looking forward to a poll on whether the Irish want to rejoin Brexit UK.
  • Still can’t understand why Farage endorsed the racist guy with an unhealthy interest in young girls?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,812

    First.

    Has this been done?



    I'm still looking forward to a poll on whether the Irish want to rejoin Brexit UK.

    What's the deal with the question? Why not a simple 'how would you vote' question?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,343
    Pleased not to have any money tied up in this one, but a nightmare for Betfair as the result still isn’t official. There’s a fair bit of 1.02 still up, if anyone thinks the result is a foregone conclusion.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/27938931/market?marketId=1.135032133
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,371
    edited December 2017
    Awkward.....

    John McAfee says his Twitter account was hacked..he also posted that he believed his mobile phone had likely been compromised.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42502770

    Given the crap he spouts, it would be hard to tell if his twitter account had been comprised or not!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,812

    Awkward.....

    John McAfee says his Twitter account was hacked..he also posted that he believed his mobile phone had likely been compromised.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42502770

    Given the crap he spouts, it would be hard to tell if his twitter account had been comprised or not!

    He has a photo of himself as his phone wallpaper? :p
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,371
    edited December 2017
    RobD said:

    Awkward.....

    John McAfee says his Twitter account was hacked..he also posted that he believed his mobile phone had likely been compromised.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42502770

    Given the crap he spouts, it would be hard to tell if his twitter account had been comprised or not!

    He has a photo of himself as his phone wallpaper? :p
    He is one very weird dude.

    I bet Trump has a photo of himself as his phone wallpaper as well. Probably lying on a massive pile of gold bars.
  • Have adults ruined children's sport?

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42329564

    I remember playing junior sport and a bigger concern was how many adults were actually playing as ringers. I remember on one occasion was a bit of a give away when a guy drove himself to a U17 games 2 years running.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,211
    RobD said:

    First.

    Has this been done?



    I'm still looking forward to a poll on whether the Irish want to rejoin Brexit UK.

    What's the deal with the question? Why not a simple 'how would you vote' question?
    It looks like an attempt to load the question - do you REALLY want a united Ireland even if it would cost loadsamoney? The answer seems to be a decisive yes, and a major shift, presumably due to uncertainty over the post-Brexit border.

    A similar poll in the North with the premise that the alternative was a hard border produced an almos even split. But that's loaded too, and the outcome is likely to be less dramatic. Nonetheless, the idea of Ireland uniting has moved slightly from the "will never happen" to "we might consider it if..." stage.
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 655
    edited December 2017

    First.

    Has this been done?



    I'm still looking forward to a poll on whether the Irish want to rejoin Brexit UK.

    It would be nice if the Irish public were asked what services they would want cut or taxes raised to fund the €9bn cost of subsidising NI. A 9bn euro cost to the Irish government has no real meaning to the average person - if you said it could pay for X more in pensions or y more doctors and nurses or z more hospitals it might elicit a different response. Cos Ireland has suffered far bigger cuts than the UK since 2008.
  • TomsToms Posts: 1,497
    'Though the country doesn't, Trump & Moore do deserve each other.
  • brendan16 said:

    First.

    Has this been done?



    I'm still looking forward to a poll on whether the Irish want to rejoin Brexit UK.

    It would be nice if the Irish public were asked what services they would want cut or taxes raised to fund the €9bn cost of subsidising NI. A 9bn euro cost to the Irish government has no real meaning to the average person - if you said it could pay for X more in pensions or y more doctors and nurses or z more hospitals it might elicit a different response. Cos Ireland has suffered far bigger cuts than the UK since 2008.
    Does €9bn mean more or less to the average Irish person than £40bn means to the average British person?
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 1,723

    RobD said:

    First.

    Has this been done?



    I'm still looking forward to a poll on whether the Irish want to rejoin Brexit UK.

    What's the deal with the question? Why not a simple 'how would you vote' question?
    It looks like an attempt to load the question - do you REALLY want a united Ireland even if it would cost loadsamoney? The answer seems to be a decisive yes, and a major shift, presumably due to uncertainty over the post-Brexit border.

    A similar poll in the North with the premise that the alternative was a hard border produced an almos even split. But that's loaded too, and the outcome is likely to be less dramatic. Nonetheless, the idea of Ireland uniting has moved slightly from the "will never happen" to "we might consider it if..." stage.
    It's a funny old world isn't it. I don't imagine the Venn diagram of people supporting Brexit and people supporting a united Ireland would have a very big area of overlap. The only person I can think of would be pre-Labour leadership Jeremy Corbyn. It's a bit of a shame he's not in a position to enjoy either outcome very much if they actually happen.
  • Another British youngster moves to Germany on a permanent basis...

    West Ham's Reece Oxford set for RB Leipzig move

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/42504657
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,211
    edited December 2017
    Donald T (sic) on the last thread drew attention to the big market on "next German chnacellor" and suggests that Merkel's price is way too short. He gives a good overview but I'm not sure the conclusion is right - the dynamic in Germany is still "how will Merkel form a government?" more than "will she manage to form a government?" In particular, the CDU/CSU are now giving ground on aliowing family reunification of refugees, which was a key issue for the SPD. There are still major stumbling blocks but the talks only begin seriously on January 7. I agree Merkel should probably be no shorter than 1.2, but she's still likely to do it in the end.

    German polling isn't showing much movement. The FDP are being penalised a bit by voters for walking out of the talks (rather an un-liberal thing to do, it's felt), and the Greens are up a bit, but everyone else is much as they were at the election, so repeating it would be unlikely to solve anything.

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,630
    Yes but Germany opposes a United States of Europe by 52% to 48% so France would just be left with the Benelux nations to create it with them ie in effect a greater France for the most part.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/946372934712557568
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 1,057

    RobD said:

    First.

    Has this been done?



    I'm still looking forward to a poll on whether the Irish want to rejoin Brexit UK.

    What's the deal with the question? Why not a simple 'how would you vote' question?
    It looks like an attempt to load the question - do you REALLY want a united Ireland even if it would cost loadsamoney? The answer seems to be a decisive yes, and a major shift, presumably due to uncertainty over the post-Brexit border.

    A similar poll in the North with the premise that the alternative was a hard border produced an almos even split. But that's loaded too, and the outcome is likely to be less dramatic. Nonetheless, the idea of Ireland uniting has moved slightly from the "will never happen" to "we might consider it if..." stage.
    It's a funny old world isn't it. I don't imagine the Venn diagram of people supporting Brexit and people supporting a united Ireland would have a very big area of overlap. The only person I can think of would be pre-Labour leadership Jeremy Corbyn. It's a bit of a shame he's not in a position to enjoy either outcome very much if they actually happen.
    But would people in N.Ireland with serious health issues want their neighbour's healthcare system? Until 2004, Ireland had no real NHS. It now has a means-tested system endorsed by, er, Owen Paterson.
  • RobD said:

    First.

    Has this been done?



    I'm still looking forward to a poll on whether the Irish want to rejoin Brexit UK.

    What's the deal with the question? Why not a simple 'how would you vote' question?
    What Th'ud forgets is that this excludes the share of UK debt: Divvie is one of our brightest - and humorous - jockanese clowns; sadly he looses coherence and tolerance when challenged.

    I like the poster: I have always imaginde him headbutting the table when challenged. His walnut within-and-between the vacuous-space between his ears reminds me of Lewisham's finest: A Ginger Backer drum-sole during "Creams" 'White Room'! :blush:
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,343
    That 1.02 is still there. Fill yer boots!
  • Meanwhile, one of the more intense Leavers have obviously had time on his or her hands at Christmas:

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,229
    kle4 said:



    And if I find a doctor who says it'll be fine or at least no worse than booze and fags are?

    That's the problem relying on first hand evidence from anecdotes.

    I dont know what the medical evidence says, but if it is no more harmful than other substances we allow, I don't see how it can logically be justified in keeping it banned.

    If it is appreciably worse, then fine, though it s surely relevant other developed nations with presumed medical knowhow don't think it is. That some will abuse it isn't a compelling argument on its own.

    An expert opinion is not an anecdote, and good luck finding a doctor who denies that cannabis psychosis is a common phenomenon. Legislation, esp in the USA, is often driven by other things than evidence.
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    Trump is now a lame duck president. This will be even worse after the mid term elections in ten months time when the Democrats gain further seats in Congress. Two further years of President by bluster and tweet, and then he will be a gonner. He will not serve a second term.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,371
    edited December 2017

    Meanwhile, one of the more intense Leavers have obviously had time on his or her hands at Christmas:

    twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/946386803367477249

    Apparently everybody is a traitor these days...

    https://order-order.com/2017/12/20/olneys-remain-trolls-wish-zac-cancerous-new-year/

    There are a small numbers of nutters everywhere.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,688

    Meanwhile, one of the more intense Leavers have obviously had time on his or her hands at Christmas:

    What a horrible thing to do. Best thrown in the bin.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Meanwhile, one of the more intense Leavers have obviously had time on his or her hands at Christmas:

    What a horrible thing to do. Best thrown in the bin.
    And waste a solid gold Twitter opportunity?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,229

    RobD said:

    First.

    Has this been done?



    I'm still looking forward to a poll on whether the Irish want to rejoin Brexit UK.

    What's the deal with the question? Why not a simple 'how would you vote' question?
    It looks like an attempt to load the question - do you REALLY want a united Ireland even if it would cost loadsamoney? The answer seems to be a decisive yes, and a major shift, presumably due to uncertainty over the post-Brexit border.

    A similar poll in the North with the premise that the alternative was a hard border produced an almos even split. But that's loaded too, and the outcome is likely to be less dramatic. Nonetheless, the idea of Ireland uniting has moved slightly from the "will never happen" to "we might consider it if..." stage.
    It's a funny old world isn't it. I don't imagine the Venn diagram of people supporting Brexit and people supporting a united Ireland would have a very big area of overlap. The only person I can think of would be pre-Labour leadership Jeremy Corbyn. It's a bit of a shame he's not in a position to enjoy either outcome very much if they actually happen.
    You have your Venn and Euler diagrams mixed up. Venn diagrams always show the overlap, and always the same size, even if there is nothing in it. A Venn diagram showing the relationship between MPs and goldfish is two overlapping circles; a Euler diagram, two separate circles.

    Next week: Karnaugh maps.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,229
    Cyclefree said:

    Meanwhile, one of the more intense Leavers have obviously had time on his or her hands at Christmas:

    What a horrible thing to do. Best thrown in the bin.
    LOL at the "royal mail supports mental health awareness" stamp on the envelope.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,343

    Meanwhile, one of the more intense Leavers have obviously had time on his or her hands at Christmas:

    twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/946386803367477249

    Apparently everybody is a traitor these days...

    https://order-order.com/2017/12/20/olneys-remain-trolls-wish-zac-cancerous-new-year/

    There are a small numbers of nutters everywhere.
    Sadly there’s plenty of people on all sides who seem to think it’s okay to hurl abuse at MPs. I wonder if it’s actually getting worse in recent years, or there’s just more awareness of it now everyone is on Twitter.
  • Can I just say, Ocaean's 8 trailer looks so bad it makes Star Wars The Last Jedi look like Oscar material. Ocean's 11 was a good fun movie, stop making crappy sequels!
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 1,723
    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    First.

    Has this been done?



    I'm still looking forward to a poll on whether the Irish want to rejoin Brexit UK.

    What's the deal with the question? Why not a simple 'how would you vote' question?
    It looks like an attempt to load the question - do you REALLY want a united Ireland even if it would cost loadsamoney? The answer seems to be a decisive yes, and a major shift, presumably due to uncertainty over the post-Brexit border.

    A similar poll in the North with the premise that the alternative was a hard border produced an almos even split. But that's loaded too, and the outcome is likely to be less dramatic. Nonetheless, the idea of Ireland uniting has moved slightly from the "will never happen" to "we might consider it if..." stage.
    It's a funny old world isn't it. I don't imagine the Venn diagram of people supporting Brexit and people supporting a united Ireland would have a very big area of overlap. The only person I can think of would be pre-Labour leadership Jeremy Corbyn. It's a bit of a shame he's not in a position to enjoy either outcome very much if they actually happen.
    You have your Venn and Euler diagrams mixed up. Venn diagrams always show the overlap, and always the same size, even if there is nothing in it. A Venn diagram showing the relationship between MPs and goldfish is two overlapping circles; a Euler diagram, two separate circles.

    Next week: Karnaugh maps.
    Well I never knew that. Thanks for the correction.

    (Wanders off humming 'You're so Venn you probably think two overlapping circles describe you.')
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,371
    edited December 2017
    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, one of the more intense Leavers have obviously had time on his or her hands at Christmas:

    twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/946386803367477249

    Apparently everybody is a traitor these days...

    https://order-order.com/2017/12/20/olneys-remain-trolls-wish-zac-cancerous-new-year/

    There are a small numbers of nutters everywhere.
    Sadly there’s plenty of people on all sides who seem to think it’s okay to hurl abuse at MPs. I wonder if it’s actually getting worse in recent years, or there’s just more awareness of it now everyone is on Twitter.
    Honestly. I think it has always gone on, and lets put it in perspective, at one point unless your name was J. Corbyn, the IRA probably had you on their little list. Jo Cox's was shocking and awful, but we have had similar attacks on MPs from individuals since the IRA e.g Stephen Timms.

    And I hate to think what Tory MPs inbox was like under Thatcher.

    I think what has changed is twitter allows anonymous instant abuse (and the trolls get the satisfactory of a reaction), rather than having to sit down write something, go to a mail box nowhere near you, and send it off and never know if it even got there.

    Twitter does allow for a large volume of abuse to be hurled at MPs.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 870
    For a Democrat victory in Alabama, I'd suggest there's already evidence of divine intervention!

    Cannot as a Christian understand how the churches have stayed solidly behind Roy Moore with everything that has emerged. I find it hard enough to reconcile the Gospel of Christ with the Gospel of Trump, but sticking behind this guy just muddies their message even further. Why I don't bet on US politics (beyond a fiver on Trump) as I don't get the mindset at all.

    Looks like he feels he has little to lose by adding 'terrible loser' to his CV!

  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 870

    Donald T (sic) on the last thread drew attention to the big market on "next German chnacellor" and suggests that Merkel's price is way too short. He gives a good overview but I'm not sure the conclusion is right - the dynamic in Germany is still "how will Merkel form a government?" more than "will she manage to form a government?" In particular, the CDU/CSU are now giving ground on aliowing family reunification of refugees, which was a key issue for the SPD. There are still major stumbling blocks but the talks only begin seriously on January 7. I agree Merkel should probably be no shorter than 1.2, but she's still likely to do it in the end.

    German polling isn't showing much movement. The FDP are being penalised a bit by voters for walking out of the talks (rather an un-liberal thing to do, it's felt), and the Greens are up a bit, but everyone else is much as they were at the election, so repeating it would be unlikely to solve anything.

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

    Just back from Germany. They are very calm about not having a permanent government, it happens when it happens. Angie's demise has been long salivated over here, but I sensed no appetite for it over there- so I think Nick is right in his comments.
  • Rebourne_FluffyRebourne_Fluffy Posts: 225
    edited December 2017
    Cyclefree said:

    Meanwhile, one of the more intense Leavers have obviously had time on his or her hands at Christmas:

    What a horrible thing to do. Best thrown in the bin.
    No; bang-out-of-order. I have known QC's who have never made themselves judges. Thankfully you are one of them.

    You should revise 'The Law of Contract'.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,343

    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, one of the more intense Leavers have obviously had time on his or her hands at Christmas:

    twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/946386803367477249

    Apparently everybody is a traitor these days...

    https://order-order.com/2017/12/20/olneys-remain-trolls-wish-zac-cancerous-new-year/

    There are a small numbers of nutters everywhere.
    Sadly there’s plenty of people on all sides who seem to think it’s okay to hurl abuse at MPs. I wonder if it’s actually getting worse in recent years, or there’s just more awareness of it now everyone is on Twitter.
    Honestly. I think it has always gone on, and lets put it in perspective, at one point unless your name was J. Corbyn, the IRA probably had you on their little list. Jo Cox's was shocking and awful, but we have had similar attacks on MPs from individuals since the IRA e.g Stephen Timms.

    And I hate to think what Tory MPs inbox was like under Thatcher.

    I think what has changed is twitter allows anonymous instant abuse (and the trolls get the satisfactory of a reaction), rather than having to sit down write something, go to a mail box nowhere near you, and send it off and never know if it even got there.

    Twitter does allow for a large volume of abuse to be hurled at MPs.
    Yes, sadly I think that hate mail is just part of being an elected representative. There will always be people upset or annoyed with what you do, and if only a fraction of a percent then write to you you’ll still have a full bag of mail.

    Luckily actual attacks are very few and far between, I’d imagine that anything that looks like a credible threat is taken pretty seriously by the authorities.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,371
    edited December 2017
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, one of the more intense Leavers have obviously had time on his or her hands at Christmas:

    twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/946386803367477249

    Apparently everybody is a traitor these days...

    https://order-order.com/2017/12/20/olneys-remain-trolls-wish-zac-cancerous-new-year/

    There are a small numbers of nutters everywhere.
    Sadly there’s plenty of people on all sides who seem to think it’s okay to hurl abuse at MPs. I wonder if it’s actually getting worse in recent years, or there’s just more awareness of it now everyone is on Twitter.
    Honestly. I think it has always gone on, and lets put it in perspective, at one point unless your name was J. Corbyn, the IRA probably had you on their little list. Jo Cox's was shocking and awful, but we have had similar attacks on MPs from individuals since the IRA e.g Stephen Timms.

    And I hate to think what Tory MPs inbox was like under Thatcher.

    I think what has changed is twitter allows anonymous instant abuse (and the trolls get the satisfactory of a reaction), rather than having to sit down write something, go to a mail box nowhere near you, and send it off and never know if it even got there.

    Twitter does allow for a large volume of abuse to be hurled at MPs.
    Yes, sadly I think that hate mail is just part of being an elected representative. There will always be people upset or annoyed with what you do, and if only a fraction of a percent then write to you you’ll still have a full bag of mail.

    Luckily actual attacks are very few and far between, I’d imagine that anything that looks like a credible threat is taken pretty seriously by the authorities.
    Should also say, there has definitely developed a culture on the internet where abuse is just something that happens and somehow should be accepted. YouTube comment sections can be absolutely disgraceful, even for videos from completely vanilla creators.
  • Mr Corbyn continued with his policy of keeping all options open in an interview with the i newspaper, in which he was asked about his deputy Tom Watson’s recent remarks that nothing should be ruled out.

    He said: “He did indeed say that, but our position is that we are not advocating a second referendum.”

    He added: “We have had a referendum which came to a decision. The negotiations are still ongoing, albeit well behind schedule, and we’ve set out the kind of relationship we want to have with Europe in the future.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/28/jeremy-corbyn-fails-rule-second-eu-referendum-labour-gains-power/

    This is going to be like trident again isn't it. Eventually they will, but Jezza will say its the will of the party not him.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,211
    edited December 2017
    Sandpit said:


    Yes, sadly I think that hate mail is just part of being an elected representative. There will always be people upset or annoyed with what you do, and if only a fraction of a percent then write to you you’ll still have a full bag of mail.

    Luckily actual attacks are very few and far between, I’d imagine that anything that looks like a credible threat is taken pretty seriously by the authorities.

    I dunno, unless Broxtowe was unusual it's definitely got worse. In 13 years I had one not very serious-sounding death threat (a bloke who said if I voted for the hunting ban he'd kill me, but he gave his name and address and the police had a word) and a few anonymous letters (1 or 2 a year) with Daily Express clippings and comments like "Aren't you ashamed to be letting Britain be overrun?", but I actually don't recall a letter or email that I'd describe as hateful, and I was getting over 100 communications a day. Nor did colleagues mention it as a problem. It now seems from press reports to be rather common.
  • Of course the easiest way to clarify the law would be to cull the excessive laws: Tsar Alexander I did so within a backward, society. Does England have to be reverted to such before we can address the mess that Europa has punished us for...?
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 1,902

    Mr Corbyn continued with his policy of keeping all options open in an interview with the i newspaper, in which he was asked about his deputy Tom Watson’s recent remarks that nothing should be ruled out.

    He said: “He did indeed say that, but our position is that we are not advocating a second referendum.”

    He added: “We have had a referendum which came to a decision. The negotiations are still ongoing, albeit well behind schedule, and we’ve set out the kind of relationship we want to have with Europe in the future.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/28/jeremy-corbyn-fails-rule-second-eu-referendum-labour-gains-power/

    This is going to be like trident again isn't it. Eventually they will, but Jezza will say its the will of the party not him.

    I think this is just Jezza staying in the Brexit sweet spot of being all things to all men.

    I just don’t see how a second referendum gets through the Commons. The Tory rebels know it would tear their party apart, and I can’t see all the Labour MPs which voted 60%+ for Brexit supporting a rematch, not counting the Labour Leavers.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,371
    edited December 2017

    Sandpit said:


    Yes, sadly I think that hate mail is just part of being an elected representative. There will always be people upset or annoyed with what you do, and if only a fraction of a percent then write to you you’ll still have a full bag of mail.

    Luckily actual attacks are very few and far between, I’d imagine that anything that looks like a credible threat is taken pretty seriously by the authorities.

    I dunno, unless Broxtowe was unusual it's definitely got worse. In 13 years I had one not very serious-sounding death threat (a bloke who said if I voted for the hunting ban he'd kill me, but he gave his name and address and the police had a word) and a few anonymous letters (1 or 2 a year) with Daily Express clippings and comments like "Aren't you ashamed to be letting Britain be overrun?", but I actually don't recall a letter or email that I'd describe as hateful, and I was getting over 100 communications a day. Nor did colleagues mention it as a problem. It now seems from press reports to be rather common.
    Well Jack Straw complained of constant abuse ever since the Iraq War, with people regularly abusing him in public.

    I would have though the 97 - 01 would have been a sweet spot of less abuse, as the government was popular and not really making any controversial decisions.
  • First.

    Has this been done?



    I'm still looking forward to a poll on whether the Irish want to rejoin Brexit UK.

    Don't hold your breath.

    http://www.europeanmovement.ie/em-irelandred-c-poll-2017-irelands-commitment-to-eu-membership-undiminished-by-brexit/

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,131

    RobD said:

    First.

    Has this been done?



    I'm still looking forward to a poll on whether the Irish want to rejoin Brexit UK.

    What's the deal with the question? Why not a simple 'how would you vote' question?
    It looks like an attempt to load the question - do you REALLY want a united Ireland even if it would cost loadsamoney? The answer seems to be a decisive yes, and a major shift, presumably due to uncertainty over the post-Brexit border.

    A similar poll in the North with the premise that the alternative was a hard border produced an almos even split. But that's loaded too, and the outcome is likely to be less dramatic. Nonetheless, the idea of Ireland uniting has moved slightly from the "will never happen" to "we might consider it if..." stage.
    It's a funny old world isn't it. I don't imagine the Venn diagram of people supporting Brexit and people supporting a united Ireland would have a very big area of overlap. The only person I can think of would be pre-Labour leadership Jeremy Corbyn. It's a bit of a shame he's not in a position to enjoy either outcome very much if they actually happen.
    I'd expect there to be a meaningful overlap among those who believe in self determination
  • Good afternoon, everyone.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,343

    Sandpit said:


    Yes, sadly I think that hate mail is just part of being an elected representative. There will always be people upset or annoyed with what you do, and if only a fraction of a percent then write to you you’ll still have a full bag of mail.

    Luckily actual attacks are very few and far between, I’d imagine that anything that looks like a credible threat is taken pretty seriously by the authorities.

    I dunno, unless Broxtowe was unusual it's definitely got worse. In 13 years I had one not very serious-sounding death threat (a bloke who said if I voted for the hunting ban he'd kill me, but he gave his name and address and the police had a word) and a few anonymous letters (1 or 2 a year) with Daily Express clippings and comments like "Aren't you ashamed to be letting Britain be overrun?", but I actually don't recall a letter or email that I'd describe as hateful, and I was getting over 100 communications a day. Nor did colleagues mention it as a problem. It now seems from press reports to be rather common.
    Good to hear you didn’t get it too bad, maybe it’s the case that email and social media have made speaking directly to an MP easier than it used to be. It’s also mostly anonymous, no-one will come after you for your online comments unless they’re clearly illegal. I pity the idiot who said he’d kill you but left his real name and address, hopefully after a couple of boys in blue knocked on his door he’ll have got the message.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,725
    tpfkar said:

    For a Democrat victory in Alabama, I'd suggest there's already evidence of divine intervention!

    Cannot as a Christian understand how the churches have stayed solidly behind Roy Moore with everything that has emerged. I find it hard enough to reconcile the Gospel of Christ with the Gospel of Trump, but sticking behind this guy just muddies their message even further. Why I don't bet on US politics (beyond a fiver on Trump) as I don't get the mindset at all.

    Looks like he feels he has little to lose by adding 'terrible loser' to his CV!

    Didn’t do Gerry Malone, late of Winchester, much good, did it?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,725
    edited December 2017
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:


    Yes, sadly I think that hate mail is just part of being an elected representative. There will always be people upset or annoyed with what you do, and if only a fraction of a percent then write to you you’ll still have a full bag of mail.

    Luckily actual attacks are very few and far between, I’d imagine that anything that looks like a credible threat is taken pretty seriously by the authorities.

    I dunno, unless Broxtowe was unusual it's definitely got worse. In 13 years I had one not very serious-sounding death threat (a bloke who said if I voted for the hunting ban he'd kill me, but he gave his name and address and the police had a word) and a few anonymous letters (1 or 2 a year) with Daily Express clippings and comments like "Aren't you ashamed to be letting Britain be overrun?", but I actually don't recall a letter or email that I'd describe as hateful, and I was getting over 100 communications a day. Nor did colleagues mention it as a problem. It now seems from press reports to be rather common.
    Good to hear you didn’t get it too bad, maybe it’s the case that email and social media have made speaking directly to an MP easier than it used to be. It’s also mostly anonymous, no-one will come after you for your online comments unless they’re clearly illegal. I pity the idiot who said he’d kill you but left his real name and address, hopefully after a couple of boys in blue knocked on his door he’ll have got the message.
    I gather Anna Soubry has had something really unpleasant, on the lines of heads on poles on London Bridge or similar and the idiot who sent it not only included his snail mail address, but also his email one. If ever someone deserved a visit from the BiB....,.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,343

    tpfkar said:

    For a Democrat victory in Alabama, I'd suggest there's already evidence of divine intervention!

    Cannot as a Christian understand how the churches have stayed solidly behind Roy Moore with everything that has emerged. I find it hard enough to reconcile the Gospel of Christ with the Gospel of Trump, but sticking behind this guy just muddies their message even further. Why I don't bet on US politics (beyond a fiver on Trump) as I don't get the mindset at all.

    Looks like he feels he has little to lose by adding 'terrible loser' to his CV!

    Didn’t do Gerry Malone, late of Winchester, much good, did it?
    Maybe those advocating a second referendum on Brexit should remember the case of Mr Malone ;)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,725
    Sandpit said:

    tpfkar said:

    For a Democrat victory in Alabama, I'd suggest there's already evidence of divine intervention!

    Cannot as a Christian understand how the churches have stayed solidly behind Roy Moore with everything that has emerged. I find it hard enough to reconcile the Gospel of Christ with the Gospel of Trump, but sticking behind this guy just muddies their message even further. Why I don't bet on US politics (beyond a fiver on Trump) as I don't get the mindset at all.

    Looks like he feels he has little to lose by adding 'terrible loser' to his CV!

    Didn’t do Gerry Malone, late of Winchester, much good, did it?
    Maybe those advocating a second referendum on Brexit should remember the case of Mr Malone ;)
    Indeed Mr S it’s a concern. Personally I prefer the Burkian model, although I’m not happy with the opinions of the MP a majority of my neighbours voted for.
  • F1: bugger. I misread Renault for Red Bull, and briefly got very excited at odds of 81 on Ladbrokes' Constructors' market :D

    Red Bull are actually 2.87. Backed them a bit at 9 or so on Betfair Exchange. That's gone, but 7 is still available. I think it's between Mercedes and Red Bull, probably contingent on the Renault engine. Still likely to be Silver Arrows, but 7 is a bit long.

    Ladbrokes has McLaren at 17. Bit hefty but I prefer Alonso for the title rather than his team.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,343

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:


    Yes, sadly I think that hate mail is just part of being an elected representative. There will always be people upset or annoyed with what you do, and if only a fraction of a percent then write to you you’ll still have a full bag of mail.

    Luckily actual attacks are very few and far between, I’d imagine that anything that looks like a credible threat is taken pretty seriously by the authorities.

    I dunno, unless Broxtowe was unusual it's definitely got worse. In 13 years I had one not very serious-sounding death threat (a bloke who said if I voted for the hunting ban he'd kill me, but he gave his name and address and the police had a word) and a few anonymous letters (1 or 2 a year) with Daily Express clippings and comments like "Aren't you ashamed to be letting Britain be overrun?", but I actually don't recall a letter or email that I'd describe as hateful, and I was getting over 100 communications a day. Nor did colleagues mention it as a problem. It now seems from press reports to be rather common.
    Good to hear you didn’t get it too bad, maybe it’s the case that email and social media have made speaking directly to an MP easier than it used to be. It’s also mostly anonymous, no-one will come after you for your online comments unless they’re clearly illegal. I pity the idiot who said he’d kill you but left his real name and address, hopefully after a couple of boys in blue knocked on his door he’ll have got the message.
    I gather Anna Soubry has had something really unpleasant, on the lines of heads on poles on London Bridge or similar and the idiot who sent it not only included his snail mail address, but also his email one. If ever someone deserved a visit from the BiB....,.
    There are some real idiots out there. Someone in the US I think posted a comment to the effect that the President was visiting his town next week so he was going to assassinate him. An hour later two black vans pulled up outside his house and he was held in custody until after the President’s visit. He now has to inform the authorities every time he leaves town so they can ensure he doesn’t get within 10 miles of any President for the rest of his life!

    Guido’s site at the time of the expenses saga were full of comments about there not being enough lamp posts on Westminster Bridge to hang all the MPs, but I think they were mostly in jest and in general, rather than sent to specific MPs.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 2,994

    Sandpit said:


    Yes, sadly I think that hate mail is just part of being an elected representative. There will always be people upset or annoyed with what you do, and if only a fraction of a percent then write to you you’ll still have a full bag of mail.

    Luckily actual attacks are very few and far between, I’d imagine that anything that looks like a credible threat is taken pretty seriously by the authorities.

    I dunno, unless Broxtowe was unusual it's definitely got worse. In 13 years I had one not very serious-sounding death threat (a bloke who said if I voted for the hunting ban he'd kill me, but he gave his name and address and the police had a word) and a few anonymous letters (1 or 2 a year) with Daily Express clippings and comments like "Aren't you ashamed to be letting Britain be overrun?", but I actually don't recall a letter or email that I'd describe as hateful, and I was getting over 100 communications a day. Nor did colleagues mention it as a problem. It now seems from press reports to be rather common.
    Well Jack Straw complained of constant abuse ever since the Iraq War, with people regularly abusing him in public.

    I would have though the 97 - 01 would have been a sweet spot of less abuse, as the government was popular and not really making any controversial decisions.
    The NATO bombing of Serbia in 1999 , was controversial for some.British Government was high profile.The countryside was upset with petrol prices in 2000 , and foot and mouth in 2O01.The farmers , hauliers , and their supporters blockaded refineries . If it had been Unions doing the same , many would have been arrested and funds sequestrated .
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,466
    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    First.

    Has this been done?



    I'm still looking forward to a poll on whether the Irish want to rejoin Brexit UK.

    What's the deal with the question? Why not a simple 'how would you vote' question?
    It looks like an attempt to load the question - do you REALLY want a united Ireland even if it would cost loadsamoney? The answer seems to be a decisive yes, and a major shift, presumably due to uncertainty over the post-Brexit border.

    A similar poll in the North with the premise that the alternative was a hard border produced an almos even split. But that's loaded too, and the outcome is likely to be less dramatic. Nonetheless, the idea of Ireland uniting has moved slightly from the "will never happen" to "we might consider it if..." stage.
    It's a funny old world isn't it. I don't imagine the Venn diagram of people supporting Brexit and people supporting a united Ireland would have a very big area of overlap. The only person I can think of would be pre-Labour leadership Jeremy Corbyn. It's a bit of a shame he's not in a position to enjoy either outcome very much if they actually happen.
    I'd expect there to be a meaningful overlap among those who believe in self determination
    I think a united Ireland is quite an attractive proposition - as is an independent Scotland. Nothing lasts forever, not even the United Kingdom.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,778
    John_M said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    First.

    Has this been done?



    I'm still looking forward to a poll on whether the Irish want to rejoin Brexit UK.

    What's the deal with the question? Why not a simple 'how would you vote' question?
    It looks like an attempt to load the question - do you REALLY want a united Ireland even if it would cost loadsamoney? The answer seems to be a decisive yes, and a major shift, presumably due to uncertainty over the post-Brexit border.

    A similar poll in the North with the premise that the alternative was a hard border produced an almos even split. But that's loaded too, and the outcome is likely to be less dramatic. Nonetheless, the idea of Ireland uniting has moved slightly from the "will never happen" to "we might consider it if..." stage.
    It's a funny old world isn't it. I don't imagine the Venn diagram of people supporting Brexit and people supporting a united Ireland would have a very big area of overlap. The only person I can think of would be pre-Labour leadership Jeremy Corbyn. It's a bit of a shame he's not in a position to enjoy either outcome very much if they actually happen.
    I'd expect there to be a meaningful overlap among those who believe in self determination
    I think a united Ireland is quite an attractive proposition - as is an independent Scotland. Nothing lasts forever, not even the United Kingdom.
    Once the English get our nation state back, we may find it easier to reconcile our national identity with pride in being part of a European political union.
  • Mr. Glenn, *raises an eyebrow*

    I suspect you're wronger than the Thirteenth Earl of Wrongcaster.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 1,723

    John_M said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    First.

    Has this been done?



    I'm still looking forward to a poll on whether the Irish want to rejoin Brexit UK.

    What's the deal with the question? Why not a simple 'how would you vote' question?
    It looks like an attempt to load the question - do you REALLY want a united Ireland even if it would cost loadsamoney? The answer seems to be a decisive yes, and a major shift, presumably due to uncertainty over the post-Brexit border.

    A similar poll in the North with the premise that the alternative was a hard border produced an almos even split. But that's loaded too, and the outcome is likely to be less dramatic. Nonetheless, the idea of Ireland uniting has moved slightly from the "will never happen" to "we might consider it if..." stage.
    It's a funny old world isn't it. I don't imagine the Venn diagram of people supporting Brexit and people supporting a united Ireland would have a very big area of overlap. The only person I can think of would be pre-Labour leadership Jeremy Corbyn. It's a bit of a shame he's not in a position to enjoy either outcome very much if they actually happen.
    I'd expect there to be a meaningful overlap among those who believe in self determination
    I think a united Ireland is quite an attractive proposition - as is an independent Scotland. Nothing lasts forever, not even the United Kingdom.
    Once the English get our nation state back, we may find it easier to reconcile our national identity with pride in being part of a European political union.
    Yes, I think you may be right. It would provide a chance for a reset at the very least.
  • Airbus is preparing to halt production of the world’s largest passenger jet as it waits anxiously on a key order from Emirates.

    The Toulouse-based aircraft manufacturer, which developed the A380 at a cost of €11billion (£9.7bn), was hoping to sign a deal with the Gulf carrier, and largest operator of the superjumbo, for 36 new planes worth $16billion (£11.9bn).

    But after talks broke down at the Dubai Air Show in December, it is understood Airbus is now establishing plans for shutting down production of the A380.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,620
    RoyalBlue said:

    Mr Corbyn continued with his policy of keeping all options open in an interview with the i newspaper, in which he was asked about his deputy Tom Watson’s recent remarks that nothing should be ruled out.

    He said: “He did indeed say that, but our position is that we are not advocating a second referendum.”

    He added: “We have had a referendum which came to a decision. The negotiations are still ongoing, albeit well behind schedule, and we’ve set out the kind of relationship we want to have with Europe in the future.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/28/jeremy-corbyn-fails-rule-second-eu-referendum-labour-gains-power/

    This is going to be like trident again isn't it. Eventually they will, but Jezza will say its the will of the party not him.

    I think this is just Jezza staying in the Brexit sweet spot of being all things to all men.

    I just don’t see how a second referendum gets through the Commons. The Tory rebels know it would tear their party apart, and I can’t see all the Labour MPs which voted 60%+ for Brexit supporting a rematch, not counting the Labour Leavers.
    I would not vote Lab in next GE if they force a 2nd referendum.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,725

    John_M said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    First.

    Has this been done?



    I'm still looking forward to a poll on whether the Irish want to rejoin Brexit UK.

    What's the deal with the question? Why not a simple 'how would you vote' question?
    It looks like an attempt to load the question - do you REALLY want a united Ireland even if it would cost loadsamoney? The answer seems to be a decisive yes, and a major shift, presumably due to uncertainty over the post-Brexit border.

    A similar poll in the North with the premise that the alternative was a hard border produced an almos even split. But that's loaded too, and the outcome is likely to be less dramatic. Nonetheless, the idea of Ireland uniting has moved slightly from the "will never happen" to "we might consider it if..." stage.
    It's a funny old world isn't it. I don't imagine the Venn diagram of people supporting Brexit and people supporting a united Ireland would have a very big area of overlap. The only person I can think of would be pre-Labour leadership Jeremy Corbyn. It's a bit of a shame he's not in a position to enjoy either outcome very much if they actually happen.
    I'd expect there to be a meaningful overlap among those who believe in self determination
    I think a united Ireland is quite an attractive proposition - as is an independent Scotland. Nothing lasts forever, not even the United Kingdom.
    Once the English get our nation state back, we may find it easier to reconcile our national identity with pride in being part of a European political union.
    So you’re going to let Wales have back the independence stolen from it in the 13th Century? Repeal Henry VIII’s Act of Union?
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 2,994

    RoyalBlue said:

    Mr Corbyn continued with his policy of keeping all options open in an interview with the i newspaper, in which he was asked about his deputy Tom Watson’s recent remarks that nothing should be ruled out.

    He said: “He did indeed say that, but our position is that we are not advocating a second referendum.”

    He added: “We have had a referendum which came to a decision. The negotiations are still ongoing, albeit well behind schedule, and we’ve set out the kind of relationship we want to have with Europe in the future.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/28/jeremy-corbyn-fails-rule-second-eu-referendum-labour-gains-power/

    This is going to be like trident again isn't it. Eventually they will, but Jezza will say its the will of the party not him.

    I think this is just Jezza staying in the Brexit sweet spot of being all things to all men.

    I just don’t see how a second referendum gets through the Commons. The Tory rebels know it would tear their party apart, and I can’t see all the Labour MPs which voted 60%+ for Brexit supporting a rematch, not counting the Labour Leavers.
    I would not vote Lab in next GE if they force a 2nd referendum.
    My prediction is it will be the Conservatives that force a 2cnd Referendum .
  • John_M said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    First.

    Has this been done?



    I'm still looking forward to a poll on whether the Irish want to rejoin Brexit UK.

    What's the deal with the question? Why not a simple 'how would you vote' question?
    It looks like an attempt to load the question - do you REALLY want a united Ireland even if it would cost loadsamoney? The answer seems to be a decisive yes, and a major shift, presumably due to uncertainty over the post-Brexit border.

    A similar poll in the North with the premise that the alternative was a hard border produced an almos even split. But that's loaded too, and the outcome is likely to be less dramatic. Nonetheless, the idea of Ireland uniting has moved slightly from the "will never happen" to "we might consider it if..." stage.
    It's a funny old world isn't it. I don't imagine the Venn diagram of people supporting Brexit and people supporting a united Ireland would have a very big area of overlap. The only person I can think of would be pre-Labour leadership Jeremy Corbyn. It's a bit of a shame he's not in a position to enjoy either outcome very much if they actually happen.
    I'd expect there to be a meaningful overlap among those who believe in self determination
    I think a united Ireland is quite an attractive proposition - as is an independent Scotland. Nothing lasts forever, not even the United Kingdom.
    Once the English get our nation state back, we may find it easier to reconcile our national identity with pride in being part of a European political union.
    Stop being dishonest. You have said plenty of times on here you don't agree with the concept of nation states. It is far too late now to start pretending otherwise.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,812
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/28/jeremy-corbyn-fails-rule-second-eu-referendum-labour-gains-power/

    Labour’s policy on Brexit is so ill-defined that Labour Remain voters are as convinced that the party is “completely against Brexit” as Labour Leave voters are convinced the party is “completely in favour of Brexit”, according to a YouGov survey.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,812
    Yorkcity said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Mr Corbyn continued with his policy of keeping all options open in an interview with the i newspaper, in which he was asked about his deputy Tom Watson’s recent remarks that nothing should be ruled out.

    He said: “He did indeed say that, but our position is that we are not advocating a second referendum.”

    He added: “We have had a referendum which came to a decision. The negotiations are still ongoing, albeit well behind schedule, and we’ve set out the kind of relationship we want to have with Europe in the future.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/28/jeremy-corbyn-fails-rule-second-eu-referendum-labour-gains-power/

    This is going to be like trident again isn't it. Eventually they will, but Jezza will say its the will of the party not him.

    I think this is just Jezza staying in the Brexit sweet spot of being all things to all men.

    I just don’t see how a second referendum gets through the Commons. The Tory rebels know it would tear their party apart, and I can’t see all the Labour MPs which voted 60%+ for Brexit supporting a rematch, not counting the Labour Leavers.
    I would not vote Lab in next GE if they force a 2nd referendum.
    My prediction is it will be the Conservatives that force a 2cnd Referendum .
    Hm, there aren't too many on the Tory benches who are agitating for one.
  • RobD said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/28/jeremy-corbyn-fails-rule-second-eu-referendum-labour-gains-power/

    Labour’s policy on Brexit is so ill-defined that Labour Remain voters are as convinced that the party is “completely against Brexit” as Labour Leave voters are convinced the party is “completely in favour of Brexit”, according to a YouGov survey.

    What it really tells while we argue on a daily basis over policy specifics and point out the lies / idiotic things politicians say, the general public don’t take a blind bit of notice.

    Furthermore, as I have previous said corbyn is very lucky that like trump a lot of people put their views onto him regardless of the reality. His all opinions welcome “get out” that he uses on a regular basis is being misinterpreted as well he has my view ...
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,211
    Yorkcity said:



    I would have though the 97 - 01 would have been a sweet spot of less abuse, as the government was popular and not really making any controversial decisions.

    The NATO bombing of Serbia in 1999 , was controversial for some.British Government was high profile.The countryside was upset with petrol prices in 2000 , and foot and mouth in 2O01.The farmers , hauliers , and their supporters blockaded refineries . If it had been Unions doing the same , many would have been arrested and funds sequestrated .
    I spoke in favour of the war at a Stop the War rally organised by Alan Simpson, and got the usual "Well, at least you turned up and admitted it" polite reception that one gets in such situations. Went to a farmers' picket line on the M1 and argued against the blockade - they looked grumpy but just muttered. And Tony Blair was famously willing to take on anyone, and got some grudging respect for it. I hink the abuse tends to come from less active people who sit at home waging war by Twitter - people are quite hestant to be nasty face to face (though I remember Galloway shouting "murderer" at me), especially if you're polite to them.
  • Yorkcity said:



    I would have though the 97 - 01 would have been a sweet spot of less abuse, as the government was popular and not really making any controversial decisions.

    The NATO bombing of Serbia in 1999 , was controversial for some.British Government was high profile.The countryside was upset with petrol prices in 2000 , and foot and mouth in 2O01.The farmers , hauliers , and their supporters blockaded refineries . If it had been Unions doing the same , many would have been arrested and funds sequestrated .
    I spoke in favour of the war at a Stop the War rally organised by Alan Simpson, and got the usual "Well, at least you turned up and admitted it" polite reception that one gets in such situations. Went to a farmers' picket line on the M1 and argued against the blockade - they looked grumpy but just muttered. And Tony Blair was famously willing to take on anyone, and got some grudging respect for it. I hink the abuse tends to come from less active people who sit at home waging war by Twitter - people are quite hestant to be nasty face to face (though I remember Galloway shouting "murderer" at me), especially if you're polite to them.
    You obviously caught george on a good day! A bad day and you would have a torrent of abuse followed legal proceeeding started against you.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 2,994
    RobD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Mr Corbyn continued with his policy of keeping all options open in an interview with the i newspaper, in which he was asked about his deputy Tom Watson’s recent remarks that nothing should be ruled out.

    He said: “He did indeed say that, but our position is that we are not advocating a second referendum.”

    He added: “We have had a referendum which came to a decision. The negotiations are still ongoing, albeit well behind schedule, and we’ve set out the kind of relationship we want to have with Europe in the future.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/28/jeremy-corbyn-fails-rule-second-eu-referendum-labour-gains-power/

    This is going to be like trident again isn't it. Eventually they will, but Jezza will say its the will of the party not him.

    I think this is just Jezza staying in the Brexit sweet spot of being all things to all men.

    I just don’t see how a second referendum gets through the Commons. The Tory rebels know it would tear their party apart, and I can’t see all the Labour MPs which voted 60%+ for Brexit supporting a rematch, not counting the Labour Leavers.
    I would not vote Lab in next GE if they force a 2nd referendum.
    My prediction is it will be the Conservatives that force a 2cnd Referendum .
    Hm, there aren't too many on the Tory benches who are agitating for one.
    True but the cabinet is split on the deal to be done. A referendum been held is nothing to do with people pressure, it only comes about when the governing cabinet is split. Also big business funds the conservatives , they eventually will get their preferred outcome.The conservatives will think it is the best way forward.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,725

    Yorkcity said:



    I would have though the 97 - 01 would have been a sweet spot of less abuse, as the government was popular and not really making any controversial decisions.

    The NATO bombing of Serbia in 1999 , was controversial for some.British Government was high profile.The countryside was upset with petrol prices in 2000 , and foot and mouth in 2O01.The farmers , hauliers , and their supporters blockaded refineries . If it had been Unions doing the same , many would have been arrested and funds sequestrated .
    I spoke in favour of the war at a Stop the War rally organised by Alan Simpson, and got the usual "Well, at least you turned up and admitted it" polite reception that one gets in such situations. Went to a farmers' picket line on the M1 and argued against the blockade - they looked grumpy but just muttered. And Tony Blair was famously willing to take on anyone, and got some grudging respect for it. I hink the abuse tends to come from less active people who sit at home waging war by Twitter - people are quite hestant to be nasty face to face (though I remember Galloway shouting "murderer" at me), especially if you're polite to them.
    I think you are right about Twitter etc; desk warfare. It’s too easy as well; someone writes an incendiary piece somewhere, some idiot reads it and recycles it with his (or her) own additions and before you know where you are there are the sort of statements we’ve seen recently.
  • AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 138
    edited December 2017
    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, one of the more intense Leavers have obviously had time on his or her hands at Christmas:

    twitter.com/heidiallen75/status/946386803367477249

    Apparently everybody is a traitor these days...

    https://order-order.com/2017/12/20/olneys-remain-trolls-wish-zac-cancerous-new-year/

    There are a small numbers of nutters everywhere.
    Sadly there’s plenty of people on all sides who seem to think it’s okay to hurl abuse at MPs. I wonder if it’s actually getting worse in recent years, or there’s just more awareness of it now everyone is on Twitter.
    Belatedly, Twitter has made participants believe that their views have value and typing something is qualitively different to vocalising it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,778

    John_M said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    First.

    Has this been done?



    I'm still looking forward to a poll on whether the Irish want to rejoin Brexit UK.

    What's the deal with the question? Why not a simple 'how would you vote' question?
    It looks like an attempt to load the question - do you REALLY want a united Ireland even if it would cost loadsamoney? The answer seems to be a decisive yes, and a major shift, presumably due to uncertainty over the post-Brexit border.

    A similar poll in the North with the premise that the alternative was a hard border produced an almos even split. But that's loaded too, and the outcome is likely to be less dramatic. Nonetheless, the idea of Ireland uniting has moved slightly from the "will never happen" to "we might consider it if..." stage.
    It's a funny old world isn't it. I don't imagine the Venn diagram of people supporting Brexit and people supporting a united Ireland would have a very big area of overlap. The only person I can think of would be pre-Labour leadership Jeremy Corbyn. It's a bit of a shame he's not in a position to enjoy either outcome very much if they actually happen.
    I'd expect there to be a meaningful overlap among those who believe in self determination
    I think a united Ireland is quite an attractive proposition - as is an independent Scotland. Nothing lasts forever, not even the United Kingdom.
    Once the English get our nation state back, we may find it easier to reconcile our national identity with pride in being part of a European political union.
    So you’re going to let Wales have back the independence stolen from it in the 13th Century? Repeal Henry VIII’s Act of Union?
    If we're going to abolish the UK, I would favour creating a federal version of the former Kingdom of England. You could write the state constitution of Wales in such a way that gave it the right to secede unilaterally, and then it would be in the hands of the people.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,439
    edited December 2017

    John_M said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    First.

    Has this been done?



    I'm still looking forward to a poll on whether the Irish want to rejoin Brexit UK.

    What's the deal with the question? Why not a simple 'how would you vote' question?
    It looks like an attempt to load the question - do you REALLY want a united Ireland even if it would cost loadsamoney? The answer seems to be a decisive yes, and a major shift, presumably due to uncertainty over the post-Brexit border.

    A similar poll in the North with the premise that the alternative was a hard border produced an almos even split. But that's loaded too, and the outcome is likely to be less dramatic. Nonetheless, the idea of Ireland uniting has moved slightly from the "will never happen" to "we might consider it if..." stage.
    It's a funny old world isn't it. I don't imagine the Venn diagram of people supporting Brexit and people supporting a united Ireland would have a very big area of overlap. The only person I can think of would be pre-Labour leadership Jeremy Corbyn. It's a bit of a shame he's not in a position to enjoy either outcome very much if they actually happen.
    I'd expect there to be a meaningful overlap among those who believe in self determination
    I think a united Ireland is quite an attractive proposition - as is an independent Scotland. Nothing lasts forever, not even the United Kingdom.
    Once the English get our nation state back, we may find it easier to reconcile our national identity with pride in being part of a European political union.
    So you’re going to let Wales have back the independence stolen from it in the 13th Century? Repeal Henry VIII’s Act of Union?
    Arguably the 11th-12th century with the establishment of the Marcher Baronies, and the subordination of the native rulers to the Crown - the last major lord of Deheubarth was 'Arglwydd' (Lord) not 'Tywysog' (Prince) still less 'Brenin' (King) because he worked for Henry II as Justiciar of the March.

    Also 'Acts' of Union, to be pedantic - 1536 and 1543.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,606

    RobD said:
    What it really tells while we argue on a daily basis over policy specifics and point out the lies / idiotic things politicians say, the general public don’t take a blind bit of notice.

    Furthermore, as I have previous said corbyn is very lucky that like trump a lot of people put their views onto him regardless of the reality. His all opinions welcome “get out” that he uses on a regular basis is being misinterpreted as well he has my view ...
    He's made his own luck in that regard, he should be able to ride it a little longer at the least.

    John_M said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    First.

    Has this been done?



    I'm still looking forward to a poll on whether the Irish want to rejoin Brexit UK.

    What's the deal with the question? Why not a simple 'how would you vote' question?
    It looks like an attempt to load the question - do you REALLY want a united Ireland even if it would cost loadsamoney? The answer seems to be a decisive yes, and a major shift, presumably due to uncertainty over the post-Brexit border.

    A simsider it if..." stage.
    It's a funny old world isn't it. I don't imagishame he's not in a position to enjoy either outcome very much if they actually happen.
    I'd expect there to be a meaningful overlap among those who believe in self determination
    I think a united Ireland is quite an attractive proposition - as is an independent Scotland. Nothing lasts forever, not even the United Kingdom.
    Once the English get our nation state back, we may find it easier to reconcile our national identity with pride in being part of a European political union.
    So you’re going to let Wales have back the independence stolen from it in the 13th Century? Repeal Henry VIII’s Act of Union?
    If we're going to abolish the UK, I would favour creating a federal version of the former Kingdom of England.
    Why's that?



    This is going to be like trident again isn't it. Eventually they will, but Jezza will say its the will of the party not him.

    Worked last time.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,778
    Yorkcity said:

    RobD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Mr Corbyn continued with his policy of keeping all options open in an interview with the i newspaper, in which he was asked about his deputy Tom Watson’s recent remarks that nothing should be ruled out.

    He said: “He did indeed say that, but our position is that we are not advocating a second referendum.”

    He added: “We have had a referendum which came to a decision. The negotiations are still ongoing, albeit well behind schedule, and we’ve set out the kind of relationship we want to have with Europe in the future.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/28/jeremy-corbyn-fails-rule-second-eu-referendum-labour-gains-power/

    This is going to be like trident again isn't it. Eventually they will, but Jezza will say its the will of the party not him.

    I think this is just Jezza staying in the Brexit sweet spot of being all things to all men.

    I just don’t see how a second referendum gets through the Commons. The Tory rebels know it would tear their party apart, and I can’t see all the Labour MPs which voted 60%+ for Brexit supporting a rematch, not counting the Labour Leavers.
    I would not vote Lab in next GE if they force a 2nd referendum.
    My prediction is it will be the Conservatives that force a 2cnd Referendum .
    Hm, there aren't too many on the Tory benches who are agitating for one.
    True but the cabinet is split on the deal to be done. A referendum been held is nothing to do with people pressure, it only comes about when the governing cabinet is split. Also big business funds the conservatives , they eventually will get their preferred outcome.The conservatives will think it is the best way forward.
    The logistical effort required to leave the customs union will be another factor pushing towards that outcome:

    https://www.ft.com/content/b5ee770a-ced1-11e7-9dbb-291a884dd8c6

    I expect May to continue the same approach of giving the Brexiteers chance to propose their solutions to the intractable problems that Brexit presents, then punt them into the long grass. Then when the deal is agreed, she'll announce a second referendum to give people the final say, and will be hailed as a heroine of democracy on two counts: for honouring the result of the first referendum and concluding a concrete Brexit deal, and for giving people the opportunity to reject it and chose to remain in the EU. She could legitimately sit out the second referendum campaign and say that either outcome would be acceptable.
  • If we're going back to old boundaries, it solves the Touquet question as both sides of the Channel will be in English hands.
  • Talking of worrying trends.....

    BREAKING NEWS: Woman, 26, suffers life-changing injuries after acid was thrown in her face in Canary Wharf
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 2,994

    Yorkcity said:



    I would have though the 97 - 01 would have been a sweet spot of less abuse, as the government was popular and not really making any controversial decisions.

    The NATO bombing of Serbia in 1999 , was controversial for some.British Government was high profile.The countryside was upset with petrol prices in 2000 , and foot and mouth in 2O01.The farmers , hauliers , and their supporters blockaded refineries . If it had been Unions doing the same , many would have been arrested and funds sequestrated .
    I spoke in favour of the war at a Stop the War rally organised by Alan Simpson, and got the usual "Well, at least you turned up and admitted it" polite reception that one gets in such situations. Went to a farmers' picket line on the M1 and argued against the blockade - they looked grumpy but just muttered. And Tony Blair was famously willing to take on anyone, and got some grudging respect for it. I hink the abuse tends to come from less active people who sit at home waging war by Twitter - people are quite hestant to be nasty face to face (though I remember Galloway shouting "murderer" at me), especially if you're polite to them.
    Thanks Nick , interesting about Galloway .I do not agree with him on many occasions.However was impressed when he went to Washington in front of the Senate back in ,2010.
  • Mr. Urquhart, the proliferation of acid attacks is a particularly barbaric import of recent times. Terrible for this young woman, and many other victims too.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 2,994

    Yorkcity said:

    RobD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Mr Corbyn continued with his policy of keeping all options open in an interview with the i newspaper, in which he was asked about his deputy Tom Watson’s recent remarks that nothing should be ruled out.

    He said: “He did indeed say that, but our position is that we are not advocating a second referendum.”

    He added: “We have had a referendum which came to a decision. The negotiations are still ongoing, albeit well behind schedule, and we’ve set out the kind of relationship we want to have with Europe in the future.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/28/jeremy-corbyn-fails-rule-second-eu-referendum-labour-gains-power/

    This is going to be like trident again isn't it. Eventually they will, but Jezza will say its the will of the party not him.

    I think this is just Jezza staying in the Brexit sweet spot of being all things to all men.

    I just don’t see how a second referendum gets through the Commons. The Tory rebels know it would tear their party apart, and I can’t see all the Labour MPs which voted 60%+ for Brexit supporting a rematch, not counting the Labour Leavers.
    I would not vote Lab in next GE if they force a 2nd referendum.
    My prediction is it will be the Conservatives that force a 2cnd Referendum .
    Hm, there aren't too many on the Tory benches who are agitating for one.
    True but the cabinet is split on the deal to be done. A referendum been held is nothing to do with people pressure, it only comes about when the governing cabinet is split. Also big business funds the conservatives , they eventually will get their preferred outcome.The conservatives will think it is the best way forward.
    The logistical effort required to leave the customs union will be another factor pushing towards that outcome:

    https://www.ft.com/content/b5ee770a-ced1-11e7-9dbb-291a884dd8c6

    I expect May to continue the same approach of giving the Brexiteers chance to propose their solutions to the intractable problems that Brexit presents, then punt them into the long grass. Then when the deal is agreed, she'll announce a second referendum to give people the final say, and will be hailed as a heroine of democracy on two counts: for honouring the result of the first referendum and concluding a concrete Brexit deal, and for giving people the opportunity to reject it and chose to remain in the EU. She could legitimately sit out the second referendum campaign and say that either outcome would be acceptable.
    Yes I agree, that sums up my prediction .
  • The chief executive of Exmo Bitcoin exchange has been kidnapped in Ukraine.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 1,723
    edited December 2017
    RobD said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/28/jeremy-corbyn-fails-rule-second-eu-referendum-labour-gains-power/

    Labour’s policy on Brexit is so ill-defined that Labour Remain voters are as convinced that the party is “completely against Brexit” as Labour Leave voters are convinced the party is “completely in favour of Brexit”, according to a YouGov survey.

    The thing is though it doesn't matter.

    The Conservatives, wisely or foolishly, have opted to own Brexit. And now they have to deliver it. They'll be judged not on how well it has worked out against the range of possible Brexits they could have gone for, or even how it would have gone with Labour in charge.

    There is no yardstick for a successful Brexit that they can use to justify what they've done. The only result that matters will be what the country looks like and how people feel about it at the next election. They could get Barnier to agree that the EU will give the UK a €60bn leaving present with a card signed by the entire Commission. It won't directly gain the Tories a single vote.

    If people decide that the NHS is in a mess and wages are going down, the Conservatives will get the blame and will be turfed out even if those problems are the direct result of the Brexit vote. It isn't fair. That's politics.

    I admire the diligence of the likes of HYFUD in going through the polls and trying to come up with a winning combination of policies. But there is no formula. If the economy does okay, public services look like they are getting better and there aren't too many immigration stories in the news the Conservatives might just squeeze back in. If not, Labour will win. But the details of the Labour Party's twists and turns on its Brexit policy will have next to no impact.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,419
    More BAFTA screener watching going on. Just watched "The Shape of Water" - it's going to get awards. Brilliant.

    Also, the great silliness that is Mindhorn! Which won't get awards. But you won't care.

    BTW - "The Miniaturist" on BBC was superb.
  • The chief executive of Exmo Bitcoin exchange has been kidnapped in Ukraine.

    Cue bits of Bitcoin exchange exec in the post.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,419
    edited December 2017

    RobD said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/28/jeremy-corbyn-fails-rule-second-eu-referendum-labour-gains-power/

    Labour’s policy on Brexit is so ill-defined that Labour Remain voters are as convinced that the party is “completely against Brexit” as Labour Leave voters are convinced the party is “completely in favour of Brexit”, according to a YouGov survey.

    The thing is though it doesn't matter.

    The Conservatives, wisely or foolishly, have opted to own Brexit. And now they have to deliver it. They'll be judged not on how well it has worked out against the range of possible Brexits they could have gone for, or even how it would have gone with Labour in charge.

    There is no yardstick for a successful Brexit that they can use to justify what they've done. The only result that matters will be what the country looks like and how people feel about it at the next election. They could get Barnier to agree that the EU will give the UK a €60bn leaving present with a card signed by the entire Commission. It won't directly gain the Tories a single vote.

    If people decide that the NHS is in a mess and wages are going down, the Conservatives will get the blame and will be turfed out even if those problems are the direct result of the Brexit vote. It isn't fair. That's politics.

    I admire the diligence of the likes of HYFUD in going through the polls and trying to come up with a winning combination of policies. But there is no formula. If the economy does okay, public services look like they are getting better and there aren't too many immigration stories in the news the Conservatives might just squeeze back in. If not, Labour will win. But the details of the Labour Party's twists and turns on its Brexit policy will have next to no impact.
    The Conservatives are the Government. The Government has chosen to follow the instructions of the voters - and leave the EU.

    A Government that chose to ignore that instruction would not be long for this world.

    How is this the Conservatives opting to own Brexit?
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 1,902

    Yorkcity said:

    RobD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Mr Corbyn continued with his policy of keeping all options open in an interview with the i newspaper, in which he was asked about his deputy Tom Watson’s recent remarks that nothing should be ruled out.

    He said: “He did indeed say that, but our position is that we are not advocating a second referendum.”

    He added: “We have had a referendum which came to a decision. The negotiations are still ongoing, albeit well behind schedule, and we’ve set out the kind of relationship we want to have with Europe in the future.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/28/jeremy-corbyn-fails-rule-second-eu-referendum-labour-gains-power/

    This is going to be like trident again isn't it. Eventually they will, but Jezza will say its the will of the party not him.

    I think this is just Jezza staying in the Brexit sweet spot of being all things to all men.

    I just don’t see how a second referendum gets through the Commons. The Tory rebels know it would tear their party apart, and I can’t see all the Labour MPs which voted 60%+ for Brexit supporting a rematch, not counting the Labour Leavers.
    I would not vote Lab in next GE if they force a 2nd referendum.
    My prediction is it will be the Conservatives that force a 2cnd Referendum .
    Hm, there aren't too many on the Tory benches who are agitating for one.
    True but the cabinet is split on the deal to be done. A referendum been held is nothing to do with people pressure, it only comes about when the governing cabinet is split. Also big business funds the conservatives , they eventually will get their preferred outcome.The conservatives will think it is the best way forward.
    The logistical effort required to leave the customs union will be another factor pushing towards that outcome:

    https://www.ft.com/content/b5ee770a-ced1-11e7-9dbb-291a884dd8c6

    I expect May to continue the same approach of giving the Brexiteers chance to propose their solutions to the intractable problems that Brexit presents, then punt them into the long grass. Then when the deal is agreed, she'll announce a second referendum to give people the final say, and will be hailed as a heroine of democracy on two counts: for honouring the result of the first referendum and concluding a concrete Brexit deal, and for giving people the opportunity to reject it and chose to remain in the EU. She could legitimately sit out the second referendum campaign and say that either outcome would be acceptable.
    I’m sorry, but this is delusional. If May tried to offer a second referendum, she wouldn’t last the day as Tory leader.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 1,650

    F1: bugger. I misread Renault for Red Bull, and briefly got very excited at odds of 81 on Ladbrokes' Constructors' market :D

    Red Bull are actually 2.87. Backed them a bit at 9 or so on Betfair Exchange. That's gone, but 7 is still available. I think it's between Mercedes and Red Bull, probably contingent on the Renault engine. Still likely to be Silver Arrows, but 7 is a bit long.

    Ladbrokes has McLaren at 17. Bit hefty but I prefer Alonso for the title rather than his team.

    Many thanks for this tip, mystifying the gap between Betfair and Ladbrokes on this one. And it even lasted till I got home from work!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,371
    edited December 2017
    FFS...I wish one of these publications would tell the tiny number of twatter moaners to take a hike. Apologising over a tongue in cheek comment taken out of context just lowers the bar for the next twitter outrage.

    Vanity Fair sorry for suggesting Hillary Clinton 'knit'

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42502893
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,229

    RobD said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/28/jeremy-corbyn-fails-rule-second-eu-referendum-labour-gains-power/

    Labour’s policy on Brexit is so ill-defined that Labour Remain voters are as convinced that the party is “completely against Brexit” as Labour Leave voters are convinced the party is “completely in favour of Brexit”, according to a YouGov survey.

    The thing is though it doesn't matter.

    The Conservatives, wisely or foolishly, have opted to own Brexit. And now they have to deliver it. They'll be judged not on how well it has worked out against the range of possible Brexits they could have gone for, or even how it would have gone with Labour in charge.

    There is no yardstick for a successful Brexit that they can use to justify what they've done. The only result that matters will be what the country looks like and how people feel about it at the next election. They could get Barnier to agree that the EU will give the UK a €60bn leaving present with a card signed by the entire Commission. It won't directly gain the Tories a single vote.

    If people decide that the NHS is in a mess and wages are going down, the Conservatives will get the blame and will be turfed out even if those problems are the direct result of the Brexit vote. It isn't fair. That's politics.

    I admire the diligence of the likes of HYFUD in going through the polls and trying to come up with a winning combination of policies. But there is no formula. If the economy does okay, public services look like they are getting better and there aren't too many immigration stories in the news the Conservatives might just squeeze back in. If not, Labour will win. But the details of the Labour Party's twists and turns on its Brexit policy will have next to no impact.
    This "owning" non-concept is meaningless bollocks. In what sense have the government opted to own Brexit? What would the alternative (non-ownership) look like?
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 1,723

    RobD said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/28/jeremy-corbyn-fails-rule-second-eu-referendum-labour-gains-power/

    Labour’s policy on Brexit is so ill-defined that Labour Remain voters are as convinced that the party is “completely against Brexit” as Labour Leave voters are convinced the party is “completely in favour of Brexit”, according to a YouGov survey.

    The thing is though it doesn't matter.

    The Conservatives, wisely or foolishly, have opted to own Brexit. And now they have to deliver it. They'll be judged not on how well it has worked out against the range of possible Brexits they could have gone for, or even how it would have gone with Labour in charge.

    There is no yardstick for a successful Brexit that they can use to justify what they've done. The only result that matters will be what the country looks like and how people feel about it at the next election. They could get Barnier to agree that the EU will give the UK a €60bn leaving present with a card signed by the entire Commission. It won't directly gain the Tories a single vote.

    If people decide that the NHS is in a mess and wages are going down, the Conservatives will get the blame and will be turfed out even if those problems are the direct result of the Brexit vote. It isn't fair. That's politics.

    I admire the diligence of the likes of HYFUD in going through the polls and trying to come up with a winning combination of policies. But there is no formula. If the economy does okay, public services look like they are getting better and there aren't too many immigration stories in the news the Conservatives might just squeeze back in. If not, Labour will win. But the details of the Labour Party's twists and turns on its Brexit policy will have next to no impact.
    The Conservatives are the Government. The Government has chosen to follow the instructions of the voters - and leave the EU.

    A Government that chose to ignore that instruction would not be long for this world.

    How is this the Conservatives opting to own Brexit?
    'Brexit means Brexit'

    Calling an election asking for a mandate to negotiate Brexit.

    Not carrying out much if any consultation on what kind of Brexit people want.

    Not suggesting that it was a cross party event and that all parties represented at Westminster would be involved in the process.

    And it isn't over yet. It might well still work. But it does mean that Labour can say almost whatever they like in the meantime.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 294

    More BAFTA screener watching going on. Just watched "The Shape of Water" - it's going to get awards. Brilliant.

    Also, the great silliness that is Mindhorn! Which won't get awards. But you won't care.

    BTW - "The Miniaturist" on BBC was superb.

    Mindhorn was ace. Get it On Demand.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 2,025
    edited December 2017

    Mr. Urquhart, the proliferation of acid attacks is a particularly barbaric import of recent times. Terrible for this young woman, and many other victims too.

    Hardly recent. It was relatively common in Victorian times. As for imported...blame the French, as so often.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_throwing#History
    https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21725328-what-used-be-weapon-victorian-ladies-has-become-popular-among-londons-gangs-acid-attacks
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,439
    dixiedean said:

    Mr. Urquhart, the proliferation of acid attacks is a particularly barbaric import of recent times. Terrible for this young woman, and many other victims too.

    Hardly recent. It was relatively common in Victorian times. As for imported...blame the French, as so often.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_throwing#History
    https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21725328-what-used-be-weapon-victorian-ladies-has-become-popular-among-londons-gangs-acid-attacks
    It was a crucial element in the Sherlock Holmes story, 'The Illustrious Client' as I recall.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 2,025
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Mr. Urquhart, the proliferation of acid attacks is a particularly barbaric import of recent times. Terrible for this young woman, and many other victims too.

    Hardly recent. It was relatively common in Victorian times. As for imported...blame the French, as so often.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_throwing#History
    https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21725328-what-used-be-weapon-victorian-ladies-has-become-popular-among-londons-gangs-acid-attacks
    It was a crucial element in the Sherlock Holmes story, 'The Illustrious Client' as I recall.
    I seem to remember it in Brighton Rock also...
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,229
    MJW said:

    More BAFTA screener watching going on. Just watched "The Shape of Water" - it's going to get awards. Brilliant.

    Also, the great silliness that is Mindhorn! Which won't get awards. But you won't care.

    BTW - "The Miniaturist" on BBC was superb.

    Mindhorn was ace. Get it On Demand.
    It is free on Amazon Prime ATM.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 64,256
    edited December 2017
    dixiedean said:

    Mr. Urquhart, the proliferation of acid attacks is a particularly barbaric import of recent times. Terrible for this young woman, and many other victims too.

    Hardly recent. It was relatively common in Victorian times. As for imported...blame the French, as so often.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_throwing#History
    https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21725328-what-used-be-weapon-victorian-ladies-has-become-popular-among-londons-gangs-acid-attacks
    You have to remember Morris Dancer has a shocking grasp of every period of history.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,812

    dixiedean said:

    Mr. Urquhart, the proliferation of acid attacks is a particularly barbaric import of recent times. Terrible for this young woman, and many other victims too.

    Hardly recent. It was relatively common in Victorian times. As for imported...blame the French, as so often.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_throwing#History
    https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21725328-what-used-be-weapon-victorian-ladies-has-become-popular-among-londons-gangs-acid-attacks
    You have to remember Morris Dancer has a shocking grasp of every period of history.
    Apart from modern history. That’s his specialty! :smiley:
This discussion has been closed.