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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Theresa May is set to conduct a major reshuffle in January, bu

SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited December 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Theresa May is set to conduct a major reshuffle in January, but will she end up causing even more problems for herself?

Great for @ShippersUnbound to have such an informed reshuffle piece, but aides briefing on reshuffles causes mayhem – angry ministers start demanding private reassurances and counter-briefing begins. Soon someone asks: are sure we *really* want to do this? pic.twitter.com/E9f99pWHJ5

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • First!
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Sloppy seconds...
  • Good afternoon, everyone.

    Hunt Vs Mordaunt for the leadership.
  • Rebourne_FluffyRebourne_Fluffy Posts: 225
    edited December 2017
    Sad numeric turds above (except MD, whom has jumped the queue).
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,400
    She’s not in a strong enough position to do this.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,439
    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,870
    DavidL said:

    She’s not in a strong enough position to do this.

    We'll see in January. The government definitely needs fresh blood and new ideas. Cutting the deadwood like Greening and Boris would Bea good start.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,419
    Five more malcontents on the backbenches is ameliorated by having five ambitious malcontents taken OFF the backbenches.

    Johnny Mercer, your time is coming.
  • DavidL said:

    She’s not in a strong enough position to do this.

    I suspect her natural caution will save her from making too many enemies simultaneously - look what happened last time she was bold & decisive.....
  • ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
  • Grayling appears not to be a loss: His skills and abilities are not known to me but his appearance does not offer much. A change may be required in the Cabinet but I cannot see if the talent is available: Maybe minor changes and some swappsies for now.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,439

    ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    I'm afraid while you have some positive ideas on the only really important subject, your willingness to waste time on unimportant subjects like maths and science would rule you out.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,439

    Grayling appears not to be a loss: His skills and abilities are not known to me but his appearance does not offer much. A change may be required in the Cabinet but I cannot see if the talent is available: Maybe minor changes and some swappsies for now.

    I would have said his key qualification is that he is the last one of May's actual friends at the cabinet table, which is why I can't imagine she'll ditch him.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,870
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    I'm afraid while you have some positive ideas on the only really important subject, your willingness to waste time on unimportant subjects like maths and science would rule you out.
    Yes, we should dump empirical sciences and prioritise gender equality, intersectional feminism and Islamic studies for feminists. I'm pretty sure the teaching unions would get on board with that curriculum change.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,439
    edited December 2017
    MaxPB said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    I'm afraid while you have some positive ideas on the only really important subject, your willingness to waste time on unimportant subjects like maths and science would rule you out.
    Yes, we should dump empirical sciences and prioritise gender equality, intersectional feminism and Islamic studies for feminists. I'm pretty sure the teaching unions would get on board with that curriculum change.
    Don't be ridiculous. As if I would suggest the latter.

    We should just teach history all the time.

    We don't need any of this bollocks about 2+2=4.

    Edit - incidentally one thing I did do this year is quit my union, although I have joined a different one. One quite niche story looming in education is that a super-union has been created from the ATL and the NUT, and it is a car crash before it's even properly merged. It's too big, too clumsy and profoundly undemocratic and I can foresee lawsuits.

    Which will of course make life just a little easier for the government as at a difficult time one of the main teaching unions, representing I believe the majority of teachers and ancillary staff, is going to be fighting amongst itself.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    I'm afraid while you have some positive ideas on the only really important subject, your willingness to waste time on unimportant subjects like maths and science would rule you out.
    I'd teach them in a historical context.

    Teach the sciences/astronomy by explaining the trial of Galileo.
  • ydoethur said:

    Grayling appears not to be a loss: His skills and abilities are not known to me but his appearance does not offer much. A change may be required in the Cabinet but I cannot see if the talent is available: Maybe minor changes and some swappsies for now.

    I would have said his key qualification is that he is the last one of May's actual friends at the cabinet table, which is why I can't imagine she'll ditch him.
    She has friends?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,459
    I'd be very surprised if Clark was booted out. He's a good communicator amongst a group sometimes lacking in comma skills...
  • ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    Gove is by far the most competent and insightful minister in her Government. I want him to stay at DEFRA because he can achieve real meaningful change but I would be glad to see him in any department. The one thing I do not believe he is suited for is the top job.
  • Rebourne_FluffyRebourne_Fluffy Posts: 225
    edited December 2017
    ydoethur said:

    MaxPB said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    I'm afraid while you have some positive ideas on the only really important subject, your willingness to waste time on unimportant subjects like maths and science would rule you out.
    Yes, we should dump empirical sciences and prioritise gender equality, intersectional feminism and Islamic studies for feminists. I'm pretty sure the teaching unions would get on board with that curriculum change.
    Don't be ridiculous. As if I would suggest the latter.

    We should just teach history all the time.

    We don't need any of this bollocks about 2+2=4.

    Edit - incidentally one thing I did do this year is quit my union, although I have joined a different one. One quite niche story looming in education is that a super-union has been created from the ATL and the NUT, and it is a car crash before it's even properly merged. It's too big, too clumsy and profoundly undemocratic and I can foresee lawsuits.

    Which will of course make life just a little easier for the government as at a difficult time one of the main teaching unions, representing I believe the majority of teachers and ancillary staff, is going to be fighting amongst itself.
    You are so two-dimensional: All xy. We are now gender-fluid so consider z: Only if z is a constant can 2+2(+z)=4 and that is not fluid.

    Further: Arithmatic-operators do not conform to current (and future) biometrics: What happens to a negative receiver? To be a fluid-constant surely the receiver should befine the power behind the coupling.*

    [* Cooking dinner and am bored.]
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,439

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    I'm afraid while you have some positive ideas on the only really important subject, your willingness to waste time on unimportant subjects like maths and science would rule you out.
    I'd teach them in a historical context.

    Teach the sciences/astronomy by explaining the trial of Galileo.
    The official version, which is still popular? Or the real version as described by modern scholarship?
  • F1: I wish Williams would make their mind up on their second driver. I keep checking Sporting Index (hopefully they'll actually have a points market rather than just the stupid ranking market) but nothing's up.

  • ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    Given your disdain for social mobility you would ensure the continuation of lowest common denominator education.
  • To paraphrase Lycurgus, when asked about introducing democracy to Sparta, if Mr. Eagles wants to encourage the learning of history he should begin with his own household.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,439

    You are so two-dimensional: All xy. We are now gender-fluid so consider z: Only if z is a constant can 2+2(+z)=4 and that is not fluid.

    Further: Arithmatic-operators do not conform to current (and future biometrics): What happens to a negative receiver? To be a fluid-constant surely the receiver should befine the power behind the coupling.*

    [* Cooking dinner and am bored.]

    Some years ago during a staff crisis I was asked if I would be willing to teach maths.

    I said I was happy to do it on my own terms, as long as I could teach it as somebody with training in economics. On being asked what I meant, I proceeded to demonstrate that one equals between four and six depending on the parameters you set.

    Strangely I wasn't asked again.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 2,025
    After some pearl-clutching beforehand, WATO Is Democracy Dead? Proved to be interesting, informative and thought-provoking, with a refreshing lack of politicians pontificating and vox pops from ill-informed callers.
    Instead, experts were allowed to speak on the state of democracy worldwide.
    Click bait title? Yes.
    But the show was worth a listen.
  • ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    Given your disdain for social mobility you would ensure the continuation of lowest common denominator education.
    I'm all in favour of social mobility.

    One of the reasons why I'm in favour of abolishing the monarchy.
  • To paraphrase Lycurgus, when asked about introducing democracy to Sparta, if Mr. Eagles wants to encourage the learning of history he should begin with his own household.

    I have an A in A Level history when A Levels were difficult.
  • Mr. Dean, cheers for that report. It sounds similar to many history titles, which tend to have a (presumably publisher-pushed) eye-catching title followed by a grown-up subtitle for the people who actually want to read the book.

    Right now I'm reading Kill Them All - Cathars and Carnage in the Albigensian Crusade, by Sean McGlynn.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,439
    edited December 2017

    To paraphrase Lycurgus, when asked about introducing democracy to Sparta, if Mr. Eagles wants to encourage the learning of history he should begin with his own household.

    I have an A in A Level history when A Levels were difficult.
    One of the things (pace his admirers on this forum) that proves what a clusterfuck Gove made of education is that the new A-levels in History, Politics and Philosophy which he designed to be very rigorous are actually quite a bit easier than the old AS/A2.
  • ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    Given your disdain for social mobility you would ensure the continuation of lowest common denominator education.
    I'm all in favour of social mobility.

    One of the reasons why I'm in favour of abolishing the monarchy.
    Those two points do not equate to each other. I suspect your A level in history was long after they had started to go down in value. Mine was in 1983, back when A levels still had some validity.
  • ydoethur said:

    To paraphrase Lycurgus, when asked about introducing democracy to Sparta, if Mr. Eagles wants to encourage the learning of history he should begin with his own household.

    I have an A in A Level history when A Levels were difficult.
    One of the things (pace his admirers on this forum) that proves what a clusterfuck Gove made of education is that the new A-levels in History, Politics and Philosophy which he designed to be very rigorous are actually quite a bit easier than the old AS/A2.
    I’d insist to get an A grade you’d need to get 80% and above.
  • Mr. Eagles, that must make it very galling to regularly have your arse kicked on historical matters by someone without even a GCSE :D
  • ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    Given your disdain for social mobility you would ensure the continuation of lowest common denominator education.
    I'm all in favour of social mobility.

    One of the reasons why I'm in favour of abolishing the monarchy.
    Those two points do not equate to each other. I suspect your A level in history was long after they had started to go down in value. Mine was in 1983, back when A levels still had some validity.
    Social mobility should be about ensuring no matter your background you should have the opportunity to get any job if you have the talent to do so.

    So the top job in this country is limited to a select few.
  • Mr. Eagles, that must make it very galling to regularly have your arse kicked on historical matters by someone without even a GCSE :D

    Only if your head, as was pointed out most recently when you thought acid attacks were an recent imported practice.
  • A reshuffle amongst junior Cabinet members will make no difference as far as the general public is concerned.

    The only cut through would be a change of leader.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,439

    ydoethur said:

    To paraphrase Lycurgus, when asked about introducing democracy to Sparta, if Mr. Eagles wants to encourage the learning of history he should begin with his own household.

    I have an A in A Level history when A Levels were difficult.
    One of the things (pace his admirers on this forum) that proves what a clusterfuck Gove made of education is that the new A-levels in History, Politics and Philosophy which he designed to be very rigorous are actually quite a bit easier than the old AS/A2.
    I’d insist to get an A grade you’d need to get 80% and above.
    Well, last year the A grade was 70, which was a fair bit below the 80% of the old A2.

    But I was thinking more that the papers themselves are not very rigorous. For example in history you now have blind source material on every paper, not one in three as before, and instead of comparing you just critique them in isolation, which is a truly pointless exercise. You also answer two essay questions, but less detail is required than before.
  • Mr. Eagles, 2017 isn't history.

    Are you saying the frequency of acid attacks hasn't significantly increased in recent times?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,630
    edited December 2017
    According to the Sunday Times Mcloughlin, Greening, Clark, Grayling, Leadsom and Javid may be for the chop. Brandon Lewis will be made party chairman, Jeremy Hunt will get the Cabinet Office role but will not be made first Secretary of State and Dominic Raab and Damian Hinds will be promoted into the Cabinet. Boris, if he accepts, will be moved to a Brexit delivery job in the business department.

    We shall see but yes May has to be careful a second 'night of the long knives' does not create too many more enemies of her.
  • ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    Given your disdain for social mobility you would ensure the continuation of lowest common denominator education.
    I'm all in favour of social mobility.

    One of the reasons why I'm in favour of abolishing the monarchy.
    Those two points do not equate to each other. I suspect your A level in history was long after they had started to go down in value. Mine was in 1983, back when A levels still had some validity.
    In 1983 good A level grades were ten a penny.

    Real value was in 1963 when I took my 'A' levels.

    Also in those days men were men - and women were glad of it. :)
  • To paraphrase Lycurgus, when asked about introducing democracy to Sparta, if Mr. Eagles wants to encourage the learning of history he should begin with his own household.

    I have an A in A Level history when A Levels were difficult.
    :trollface:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,439
    HYUFD said:

    According to the Sunday Times Mcloughlin, Greening, Clark, Grayling, Leadsom and Javid may be for the chop. Brandon Lewis will be made party chairman, Jeremy Hunt will get the Cabinet Office role but will not be made first Secretary of State and Dominic Raab and Damian Hinds will be promoted into the Cabinet.

    We shall see but yes May has to be careful a second 'night of the long knives' does not create too many more enemies of her.

    Third, Hyufd.

    Although hopefully she won't have all her enemies shot, bludgeoned to death with an axe, drowned in a river or beheaded the way the first one did.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,439

    ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    Given your disdain for social mobility you would ensure the continuation of lowest common denominator education.
    I'm all in favour of social mobility.

    One of the reasons why I'm in favour of abolishing the monarchy.
    Those two points do not equate to each other. I suspect your A level in history was long after they had started to go down in value. Mine was in 1983, back when A levels still had some validity.
    In 1983 good A level grades were ten a penny.

    Real value was in 1963 when I took my 'A' levels.

    Also in those days men were men - and women were glad of it. :)
    1963?

    If Corbyn could pass A-levels in 1967, we must assume either you are wrong or there was a sudden dramatic drop in standards in four short years. :smiley:
  • ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    Given your disdain for social mobility you would ensure the continuation of lowest common denominator education.
    I'm all in favour of social mobility.

    One of the reasons why I'm in favour of abolishing the monarchy.
    Those two points do not equate to each other. I suspect your A level in history was long after they had started to go down in value. Mine was in 1983, back when A levels still had some validity.
    In 1983 good A level grades were ten a penny.

    Real value was in 1963 when I took my 'A' levels.

    Also in those days men were men - and women were glad of it. :)
    LOL. I will give you that one. But we are still miles better than the stripling youngster TSE and his Grade 3 CSE equivalent.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,630

    ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    Given your disdain for social mobility you would ensure the continuation of lowest common denominator education.
    I'm all in favour of social mobility.

    One of the reasons why I'm in favour of abolishing the monarchy.
    The monarchy has now seen the daughter of an air hostess and granddaughter of miners rise to become a future Queen and a mixed race American is now set to be a future Duchess. It now combines the best of aristocracy with the best of meritocracy
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,630
    ydoethur said:

    Grayling appears not to be a loss: His skills and abilities are not known to me but his appearance does not offer much. A change may be required in the Cabinet but I cannot see if the talent is available: Maybe minor changes and some swappsies for now.

    I would have said his key qualification is that he is the last one of May's actual friends at the cabinet table, which is why I can't imagine she'll ditch him.
    Grayling even ran May's leadership campaign
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 2,025

    Mr. Dean, cheers for that report. It sounds similar to many history titles, which tend to have a (presumably publisher-pushed) eye-catching title followed by a grown-up subtitle for the people who actually want to read the book.

    Right now I'm reading Kill Them All - Cathars and Carnage in the Albigensian Crusade, by Sean McGlynn.

    Indeed. The conclusion. Is democracy dead? Of course not. Going backwards in some places (Turkey), much the same despite much hype in others (PRC and USA) and showing progress in others (Ecuador), about which I was previously ignorant.

    Not sure Is Democracy Pretty Much Where it was 5 Years Ago? would have worked as a title though...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,630
    ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    If May did go though Hammond would ptobably go with her, he has limited support with Tory MPs and even less support with Tory members
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,630
    Well at least they agree on more money for the NHS
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,796

    DavidL said:

    She’s not in a strong enough position to do this.

    I suspect her natural caution will save her from making too many enemies simultaneously - look what happened last time she was bold & decisive.....
    In other words scared to do what is right and will hang on to the trough at all costs.
  • ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    Given your disdain for social mobility you would ensure the continuation of lowest common denominator education.
    I'm all in favour of social mobility.

    One of the reasons why I'm in favour of abolishing the monarchy.
    Those two points do not equate to each other. I suspect your A level in history was long after they had started to go down in value. Mine was in 1983, back when A levels still had some validity.
    Social mobility should be about ensuring no matter your background you should have the opportunity to get any job if you have the talent to do so.

    So the top job in this country is limited to a select few.
    And would remain so in a Republic. All you would do is replace a stable figurehead position with the illusion of social mobility. Like so much else you extol as 'improvement' the real effect is to reduce mobility and opportunity whilst hiding behind the illusion that things are getting better. The idea of the proles having any real power or position of authority scares the hell out of you and your privately educated attitudes.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,439
    HYUFD said:

    Well at least they agree on more money for the NHS
    Surprising that tuition fees doesn't score more highly, tbh. Would have expected it to be ahead of the NHS given how few 18-24 year olds use it heavily, and how fed up they keep saying they are.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,630
    edited December 2017
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    According to the Sunday Times Mcloughlin, Greening, Clark, Grayling, Leadsom and Javid may be for the chop. Brandon Lewis will be made party chairman, Jeremy Hunt will get the Cabinet Office role but will not be made first Secretary of State and Dominic Raab and Damian Hinds will be promoted into the Cabinet.

    We shall see but yes May has to be careful a second 'night of the long knives' does not create too many more enemies of her.

    Third, Hyufd.

    Although hopefully she won't have all her enemies shot, bludgeoned to death with an axe, drowned in a river or beheaded the way the first one did.
    Hopefully not, May having Osborne and Leadsom as enemies on the liberal and traditionalist wings of the party and adding heavyweight figures in the centre of the party like Grayling and Clark to her opponents would be a risky move.
  • To get a grade A in an 'A'-level requires not only knowledge but an understanding of English. To be fair: Not everyone had the drag of a Scottish, public-school education.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,796
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Grayling appears not to be a loss: His skills and abilities are not known to me but his appearance does not offer much. A change may be required in the Cabinet but I cannot see if the talent is available: Maybe minor changes and some swappsies for now.

    I would have said his key qualification is that he is the last one of May's actual friends at the cabinet table, which is why I can't imagine she'll ditch him.
    Grayling even ran May's leadership campaign
    Deserves to be sacked for that alone , never mind being totally useless.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,870
    Heartening to see nationalise rail and energy so low on both priority lists.

    A party which pledges to give the NHS "£350m per week" by 2022, raise the minimum wage to £12.50 per hour by the end of 2022 and commission a million affordable homes for sale exclusively to non-investor FTBs would do very well.

    I think all of that is well within the realms of possibility for either party tbh, though Labour would probably make them social housing for rent rather than affordable housing for private ownership, which is why the Tories must offer ownership before Labour can create 2-3m new social tenants.
  • HYUFD said:

    Well at least they agree on more money for the NHS
    I am sure they would both also agree to pay less tax and spend more on government services.

    The only questions worth asking are those which have trade offs.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,796

    Mr. Eagles, that must make it very galling to regularly have your arse kicked on historical matters by someone without even a GCSE :D

    Only if your head, as was pointed out most recently when you thought acid attacks were an recent imported practice.
    Certainly were very very rare till mass immigration
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,439
    malcolmg said:

    Mr. Eagles, that must make it very galling to regularly have your arse kicked on historical matters by someone without even a GCSE :D

    Only if your head, as was pointed out most recently when you thought acid attacks were an recent imported practice.
    Certainly were very very rare till mass immigration
    Those bloody Beaker People, they started it all I tell you...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,796

    ydoethur said:

    MaxPB said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    I'm afraid while you have some positive ideas on the only really important subject, your willingness to waste time on unimportant subjects like maths and science would rule you out.
    Yes, we should dump empirical sciences and prioritise gender equality, intersectional feminism and Islamic studies for feminists. I'm pretty sure the teaching unions would get on board with that curriculum change.
    Don't be ridiculous. As if I would suggest the latter.

    We should just teach history all the time.

    We don't need any of this bollocks about 2+2=4.

    Edit - incidentally one thing I did do this year is quit my union, although I have joined a different one. One quite niche story looming in education is that a super-union has been created from the ATL and the NUT, and it is a car crash before it's even properly merged. It's too big, too clumsy and profoundly undemocratic and I can foresee lawsuits.

    Which will of course make life just a little easier for the government as at a difficult time one of the main teaching unions, representing I believe the majority of teachers and ancillary staff, is going to be fighting amongst itself.
    You are so two-dimensional: All xy. We are now gender-fluid so consider z: Only if z is a constant can 2+2(+z)=4 and that is not fluid.

    Further: Arithmatic-operators do not conform to current (and future) biometrics: What happens to a negative receiver? To be a fluid-constant surely the receiver should befine the power behind the coupling.*

    [* Cooking dinner and am bored.]
    more like cooking sherry
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 2,327
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    Given your disdain for social mobility you would ensure the continuation of lowest common denominator education.
    I'm all in favour of social mobility.

    One of the reasons why I'm in favour of abolishing the monarchy.
    Those two points do not equate to each other. I suspect your A level in history was long after they had started to go down in value. Mine was in 1983, back when A levels still had some validity.
    In 1983 good A level grades were ten a penny.

    Real value was in 1963 when I took my 'A' levels.

    Also in those days men were men - and women were glad of it. :)
    1963?

    If Corbyn could pass A-levels in 1967, we must assume either you are wrong or there was a sudden dramatic drop in standards in four short years. :smiley:
    Two E's though.

    When did serious grade inflation start? I'd have imagined it was it was from 1997 onwards, but I'm sure there was (and is) a background level of inflation.

    Does anyone know anyone that got a 4th? (Oxford).

  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    Given your disdain for social mobility you would ensure the continuation of lowest common denominator education.
    I'm all in favour of social mobility.

    One of the reasons why I'm in favour of abolishing the monarchy.
    Those two points do not equate to each other. I suspect your A level in history was long after they had started to go down in value. Mine was in 1983, back when A levels still had some validity.
    In 1983 good A level grades were ten a penny.

    Real value was in 1963 when I took my 'A' levels.

    Also in those days men were men - and women were glad of it. :)
    1963?

    If Corbyn could pass A-levels in 1967, we must assume either you are wrong or there was a sudden dramatic drop in standards in four short years. :smiley:

    According to Wiki, Corbyn achieved two E-grade A-Levels before leaving school at 18.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,640
    When does anything ever go right for our Theresa?
  • ydoethur said:

    To paraphrase Lycurgus, when asked about introducing democracy to Sparta, if Mr. Eagles wants to encourage the learning of history he should begin with his own household.

    I have an A in A Level history when A Levels were difficult.
    One of the things (pace his admirers on this forum) that proves what a clusterfuck Gove made of education is that the new A-levels in History, Politics and Philosophy which he designed to be very rigorous are actually quite a bit easier than the old AS/A2.
    I’d insist to get an A grade you’d need to get 80% and above.
    The grade cut off percentage depends on the difficulty of the exam.

    At University one maths exam was so difficult only one student passed before all the marks were scaled up. The one who passed (Sun Soon Lim from Malaysia) was given 140% to allow the bulk of us to get over the pass mark.
  • Some posters on here dig themselves into their own pisholes. Sad; bigly sad.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,630
    edited December 2017
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Grayling appears not to be a loss: His skills and abilities are not known to me but his appearance does not offer much. A change may be required in the Cabinet but I cannot see if the talent is available: Maybe minor changes and some swappsies for now.

    I would have said his key qualification is that he is the last one of May's actual friends at the cabinet table, which is why I can't imagine she'll ditch him.
    Grayling even ran May's leadership campaign
    Deserves to be sacked for that alone , never mind being totally useless.
    May won the MP vote convincingly so he did that job well
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,630
    MaxPB said:

    Heartening to see nationalise rail and energy so low on both priority lists.

    A party which pledges to give the NHS "£350m per week" by 2022, raise the minimum wage to £12.50 per hour by the end of 2022 and commission a million affordable homes for sale exclusively to non-investor FTBs would do very well.

    I think all of that is well within the realms of possibility for either party tbh, though Labour would probably make them social housing for rent rather than affordable housing for private ownership, which is why the Tories must offer ownership before Labour can create 2-3m new social tenants.
    Well Javid and Hammond are now pushing more affordable housing on councils in their local plans
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,796
    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Grayling appears not to be a loss: His skills and abilities are not known to me but his appearance does not offer much. A change may be required in the Cabinet but I cannot see if the talent is available: Maybe minor changes and some swappsies for now.

    I would have said his key qualification is that he is the last one of May's actual friends at the cabinet table, which is why I can't imagine she'll ditch him.
    Grayling even ran May's leadership campaign
    Deserves to be sacked for that alone , never mind being totally useless.
    May won the MP vote convincingly so he did that job well
    LOL :smiley:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,630
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Well at least they agree on more money for the NHS
    Surprising that tuition fees doesn't score more highly, tbh. Would have expected it to be ahead of the NHS given how few 18-24 year olds use it heavily, and how fed up they keep saying they are.
    Remember even now almost 60% of 18 to 24 year olds do not go to university
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,870
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Heartening to see nationalise rail and energy so low on both priority lists.

    A party which pledges to give the NHS "£350m per week" by 2022, raise the minimum wage to £12.50 per hour by the end of 2022 and commission a million affordable homes for sale exclusively to non-investor FTBs would do very well.

    I think all of that is well within the realms of possibility for either party tbh, though Labour would probably make them social housing for rent rather than affordable housing for private ownership, which is why the Tories must offer ownership before Labour can create 2-3m new social tenants.
    Well Javid and Hammond are now pushing more affordable housing on councils in their local plans
    Affordable rental housing, which does nothing for us. We need to create more homeowners, not more social renters.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,439
    edited December 2017
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    Given your disdain for social mobility you would ensure the continuation of lowest common denominator education.
    I'm all in favour of social mobility.

    One of the reasons why I'm in favour of abolishing the monarchy.
    Those two points do not equate to each other. I suspect your A level in history was long after they had started to go down in value. Mine was in 1983, back when A levels still had some validity.
    In 1983 good A level grades were ten a penny.

    Real value was in 1963 when I took my 'A' levels.

    Also in those days men were men - and women were glad of it. :)
    1963?

    If Corbyn could pass A-levels in 1967, we must assume either you are wrong or there was a sudden dramatic drop in standards in four short years. :smiley:
    Two E's though.

    When did serious grade inflation start? I'd have imagined it was it was from 1997 onwards, but I'm sure there was (and is) a background level of inflation.

    Does anyone know anyone that got a 4th? (Oxford).

    Tables from 1993 onwards are here:

    http://www.bstubbs.co.uk/a-lev.htm

    There doesn't seem to be any one moment where it 'took off' in that timeframe but the greatest jump appears to have been around 2001 for most subjects - curiously the last year of the old A-levels.

    Edit - on a very careful check the largest jump overall was indeed in 2002. But grades had been steadily rising for a long time before that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,630
    edited December 2017
    MaxPB said:

    Heartening to see nationalise rail and energy so low on both priority lists.

    A party which pledges to give the NHS "£350m per week" by 2022, raise the minimum wage to £12.50 per hour by the end of 2022 and commission a million affordable homes for sale exclusively to non-investor FTBs would do very well.

    I think all of that is well within the realms of possibility for either party tbh, though Labour would probably make them social housing for rent rather than affordable housing for private ownership, which is why the Tories must offer ownership before Labour can create 2-3m new social tenants.
    The most successful party platform of all would be one that promised more money for the NHS, paid for in part by slashing overseas aid spending, more affordable housing, a higher minimum wage and to slash immigration. A party that combined the policies of Corbyn and UKIP in 2015 would do very well
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,439
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Well at least they agree on more money for the NHS
    Surprising that tuition fees doesn't score more highly, tbh. Would have expected it to be ahead of the NHS given how few 18-24 year olds use it heavily, and how fed up they keep saying they are.
    Remember even now almost 60% of 18 to 24 year olds do not go to university
    Good point.
  • ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    Given your disdain for social mobility you would ensure the continuation of lowest common denominator education.
    I'm all in favour of social mobility.

    One of the reasons why I'm in favour of abolishing the monarchy.
    Those two points do not equate to each other. I suspect your A level in history was long after they had started to go down in value. Mine was in 1983, back when A levels still had some validity.
    Social mobility should be about ensuring no matter your background you should have the opportunity to get any job if you have the talent to do so.

    So the top job in this country is limited to a select few.
    And would remain so in a Republic. All you would do is replace a stable figurehead position with the illusion of social mobility. Like so much else you extol as 'improvement' the real effect is to reduce mobility and opportunity whilst hiding behind the illusion that things are getting better. The idea of the proles having any real power or position of authority scares the hell out of you and your privately educated attitudes.
    Grammar schools damage social mobility overall as organisations like the Sutton Trust have shown.

    If you're in favour of grammar schools, then you're an enemy of social mobility.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 7,948
    Deckchairs. Titanic.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,630
    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Heartening to see nationalise rail and energy so low on both priority lists.

    A party which pledges to give the NHS "£350m per week" by 2022, raise the minimum wage to £12.50 per hour by the end of 2022 and commission a million affordable homes for sale exclusively to non-investor FTBs would do very well.

    I think all of that is well within the realms of possibility for either party tbh, though Labour would probably make them social housing for rent rather than affordable housing for private ownership, which is why the Tories must offer ownership before Labour can create 2-3m new social tenants.
    Well Javid and Hammond are now pushing more affordable housing on councils in their local plans
    Affordable rental housing, which does nothing for us. We need to create more homeowners, not more social renters.
    No, mainly affordable homes to buy, even if a small percentage will be social housing
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    Given your disdain for social mobility you would ensure the continuation of lowest common denominator education.
    I'm all in favour of social mobility.

    One of the reasons why I'm in favour of abolishing the monarchy.
    Those two points do not equate to each other. I suspect your A level in history was long after they had started to go down in value. Mine was in 1983, back when A levels still had some validity.
    In 1983 good A level grades were ten a penny.

    Real value was in 1963 when I took my 'A' levels.

    Also in those days men were men - and women were glad of it. :)
    1963?

    If Corbyn could pass A-levels in 1967, we must assume either you are wrong or there was a sudden dramatic drop in standards in four short years. :smiley:

    According to Wiki, Corbyn achieved two E-grade A-Levels before leaving school at 18.
    Even after going to one of the best state schools in the country....thick as mince
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,630
    edited December 2017

    ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    Given your disdain for social mobility you would ensure the continuation of lowest common denominator education.
    I'm all in favour of social mobility.

    One of the reasons why I'm in favour of abolishing the monarchy.
    Those two points do not equate to each other. I suspect your A level in history was long after they had started to go down in value. Mine was in 1983, back when A levels still had some validity.
    Social mobility should be about ensuring no matter your background you should have the opportunity to get any job if you have the talent to do so.

    So the top job in this country is limited to a select few.
    And would remain so in a Republic. All you would do is replace a stable figurehead position with the illusion of social mobility. Like so much else you extol as 'improvement' the real effect is to reduce mobility and opportunity whilst hiding behind the illusion that things are getting better. The idea of the proles having any real power or position of authority scares the hell out of you and your privately educated attitudes.
    Grammar schools damage social mobility overall as organisations like the Sutton Trust have shown.

    If you're in favour of grammar schools, then you're an enemy of social mobility.
    Grammar school pupils are overrepresented as a percentage at Oxbridge and the Russell Group and the professions and comprehensive school pupils underrepresented as the Sutton Trust has shown
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 4,286
    Mr Eagles,

    Why are public schoolboys so against Grammar schools? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were a good Grammar school lad, but why was Tony Crossland so against them - the posh git.
  • Right, I'm off to party in Manchester and see in the new year, play nicely and next week's threads might be on AV.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,439
    Jonathan said:

    Deckchairs. Titanic.

    But without the beautiful music:

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,630

    ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    Given your disdain for social mobility you would ensure the continuation of lowest common denominator education.
    I'm all in favour of social mobility.

    One of the reasons why I'm in favour of abolishing the monarchy.
    Those two points do not equate to each other. I suspect your A level in history was long after they had started to go down in value. Mine was in 1983, back when A levels still had some validity.
    Social mobility should be about ensuring no matter your background you should have the opportunity to get any job if you have the talent to do so.

    So the top job in this country is limited to a select few.
    And would remain so in a Republic. All you would do is replace a stable figurehead position with the illusion of social mobility. Like so much else you extol as 'improvement' the real effect is to reduce mobility and opportunity whilst hiding behind the illusion that things are getting better. The idea of the proles having any real power or position of authority scares the hell out of you and your privately educated attitudes.
    88% of Tories back the monarchy and 68% of the country at large, TSE is in a tiny minority within the party as a republican

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/09/08/monarchy-here-stay/
  • CD13 said:

    Mr Eagles,

    Why are public schoolboys so against Grammar schools? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were a good Grammar school lad, but why was Tony Crossland so against them - the posh git.

    I've seen the data and stats, grammar schools help a few, but they damage even more, so they are a net loser.

    I'm in favour of not leaving any child behind.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,439

    Right, I'm off to party in Manchester and see in the new year, play nicely and next week's threads might be on AV.

    Happy New Year Mr Eagles.

    Everyone else, quick! onto the merits of pineapple on pizza and Hannibal so we don't get an AV thread.
  • HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Heartening to see nationalise rail and energy so low on both priority lists.

    A party which pledges to give the NHS "£350m per week" by 2022, raise the minimum wage to £12.50 per hour by the end of 2022 and commission a million affordable homes for sale exclusively to non-investor FTBs would do very well.

    I think all of that is well within the realms of possibility for either party tbh, though Labour would probably make them social housing for rent rather than affordable housing for private ownership, which is why the Tories must offer ownership before Labour can create 2-3m new social tenants.
    Well Javid and Hammond are now pushing more affordable housing on councils in their local plans
    Affordable rental housing, which does nothing for us. We need to create more homeowners, not more social renters.
    No, mainly affordable homes to buy, even if a small percentage will be social housing
    You can not buy 100% of an 'affordable housing' house. The maximum is 80% purchased with the remainder rented.

    The only 'affordable' element of affordable housing is the rented part which must be no more than 80% that of the market rental.

    So for shared ownership (part rental part purchase), the rented element can be subsidised but the purchased element should be at market value.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 4,286
    "I'm in favour of not leaving any child behind,"

    Well said, Mr Eagles. Don't drink too much tonight.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,630
    edited December 2017

    CD13 said:

    Mr Eagles,

    Why are public schoolboys so against Grammar schools? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were a good Grammar school lad, but why was Tony Crossland so against them - the posh git.

    I've seen the data and stats, grammar schools help a few, but they damage even more, so they are a net loser.

    I'm in favour of not leaving any child behind.
    Buckinghamshire and Trafford are both fully selective and both have above average GCSE results
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,439

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    Given your disdain for social mobility you would ensure the continuation of lowest common denominator education.
    I'm all in favour of social mobility.

    One of the reasons why I'm in favour of abolishing the monarchy.
    Those two points do not equate to each other. I suspect your A level in history was long after they had started to go down in value. Mine was in 1983, back when A levels still had some validity.
    In 1983 good A level grades were ten a penny.

    Real value was in 1963 when I took my 'A' levels.

    Also in those days men were men - and women were glad of it. :)
    1963?

    If Corbyn could pass A-levels in 1967, we must assume either you are wrong or there was a sudden dramatic drop in standards in four short years. :smiley:

    According to Wiki, Corbyn achieved two E-grade A-Levels before leaving school at 18.
    Even after going to one of the best state schools in the country....thick as mince
    For everything except History.

    That is an entirely serious comment but unfortunately I can't expand on it too much.

    But otherwise it is a very good school. Indeed my grandfather went there (a little before even Corbyn) and it set him up for a brilliant career in banking.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,371
    edited December 2017
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    Given your disdain for social mobility you would ensure the continuation of lowest common denominator education.
    I'm all in favour of social mobility.

    One of the reasons why I'm in favour of abolishing the monarchy.
    Those two points do not equate to each other. I suspect your A level in history was long after they had started to go down in value. Mine was in 1983, back when A levels still had some validity.
    In 1983 good A level grades were ten a penny.

    Real value was in 1963 when I took my 'A' levels.

    Also in those days men were men - and women were glad of it. :)
    1963?

    If Corbyn could pass A-levels in 1967, we must assume either you are wrong or there was a sudden dramatic drop in standards in four short years. :smiley:

    According to Wiki, Corbyn achieved two E-grade A-Levels before leaving school at 18.
    Even after going to one of the best state schools in the country....thick as mince
    For everything except History.

    That is an entirely serious comment but unfortunately I can't expand on it too much.

    But otherwise it is a very good school. Indeed my grandfather went there (a little before even Corbyn) and it set him up for a brilliant career in banking.
    I presume you are aware of the scandalous name change.
  • CD13 said:

    Mr Eagles,

    Why are public schoolboys so against Grammar schools? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were a good Grammar school lad, but why was Tony Crossland so against them - the posh git.

    I've seen the data and stats, grammar schools help a few, but they damage even more, so they are a net loser.

    I'm in favour of not leaving any child behind.
    So that's why you went to public school?
  • Right, I'm off to party in Manchester and see in the new year, play nicely and next week's threads might be on AV.

    Adult Videos? :open_mouth:
  • New year resolution time - I will be doing a seanT flounce.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,630
    edited December 2017
    CD13 said:

    Mr Eagles,

    Why are public schoolboys so against Grammar schools? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were a good Grammar school lad, but why was Tony Crossland so against them - the posh git.

    TSE is a public schoolboy (as indeed am I though my sister went to a grammar and my cousins to comprehensives).

    Grammar schools increase competition at the top so reduce the public school monopoly of elite schools, indeed many private schools saw falling rolls when grammars were at their peak in the 1950s and early 1960s, why pay for an education you can get free? Plus of course from 1964 we had no private school educated PMs for 33 years, since 1997 In the last 20 years we have had an Old Etonian PM and a PM educated at Fettes, the Eton of Scotland
  • ydoethur said:

    Can't see her sacking Grayling after losing Green.

    Will be a disaster if Greening goes and is replaced by another meddlesome fool in the Gove/Morgan/Balls tradition.

    Overall I would be surprised if the reconstruction was as extensive as predicted. That would mean a third of the Cabinet removed in less than three months, which would compare with Macmillan's Night of the Long Knives. She doesn't have Macmillan's majority and cannot afford the trouble it would cause.

    If she does go for it, I expect her to be out by Easter with Hammond taking over.

    She should make me Education Secretary.

    I'd put a strong emphasis on history, maths, and the sciences.

    I'd be the greatest Education Secretary ever, as I'd push up standards like never before.
    Given your disdain for social mobility you would ensure the continuation of lowest common denominator education.
    I'm all in favour of social mobility.

    One of the reasons why I'm in favour of abolishing the monarchy.
    TSE Will Never Be A Tory.
  • Jonathan said:

    Deckchairs. Titanic.

    You make my old jokes look fresh and invigurating. When are you going to post something positive?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,439
    edited December 2017

    I presume you are aware of the scandalous name change.

    Well, the current name isn't that old - it was Newport Grammar when my grandfather was there.

    I am intrigued however that it is making the link to the independent sector (and it always has been de facto an independent school) so very explicit. I wonder if this presages a Manchester style Declaration of Independence?

    Edit - if you thought my comment was an oblique reference to that, unfortunately it wasn't. It was a reference to the standard of teaching in the History department at Adams.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,459
    MaxPB said:

    Heartening to see nationalise rail and energy so low on both priority lists.

    A party which pledges to give the NHS "£350m per week" by 2022, raise the minimum wage to £12.50 per hour by the end of 2022 and commission a million affordable homes for sale exclusively to non-investor FTBs would do very well.

    I think all of that is well within the realms of possibility for either party tbh, though Labour would probably make them social housing for rent rather than affordable housing for private ownership, which is why the Tories must offer ownership before Labour can create 2-3m new social tenants.
    Anazingly, those were almost exactly my thoughts. Maybe it's something to do with the Alpine air inhaled today.

    Tory position is nowhere near as bad as is painted. Simply by executing Brexit and making sure there are more homeowners I suspect the Tories prevent a Labour government.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 20,654
    HYUFD said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr Eagles,

    Why are public schoolboys so against Grammar schools? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were a good Grammar school lad, but why was Tony Crossland so against them - the posh git.

    TSE is a public schoolboy (as indeed am I though my sister went to a grammar and my cousins to comprehensives).

    Grammar schools increase competition at the top so reduce the public school monopoly of elite schools, indeed many private schools saw falling rolls when grammars were at their peak in the 1950s and early 1960s, why pay for an education you can get free? Plus of course from 1964 we had no private school educated PMs for 33 years, since 1997 In the last 20 years we have had an Old Etonian PM and a PM educated at Fettes, the Eton of Scotland
    TBH, private school fees seem like a waste of money these days. Ever greater sums are spent on ever more elaborate facilities.

    If you can afford to pay fees, you can certainly afford to move to places where there are good State schools.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,812

    Right, I'm off to party in Manchester and see in the new year, play nicely and next week's threads might be on AV.

    Adult Videos? :open_mouth:
    :o

    This is what I get for logging out of PB for a few hours.
This discussion has been closed.