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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Reshuffling the TMay way – a cock-up over Grayling that will d

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  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,500
    Anazina said:

    It is amazing that at a time of significant national need, the Tories and Labour have conspired to present us with the worst government and opposition in living memory.


    We appear to have entered an age of reverse politics, whereby talentless extremists prosper while skilled pragmatists founder on the backbenches. One could quite easily select a strong cabinet from those sidelined by May's Brexit-botherers and Labour's PLP rebellion!
    It's hardly surprising when you're expected to be a Saint going back your whole life, yet also have real-life experience, put up with personal attacks and intrusion at any time, and your whole career can be finished with a single gaffe.

    Why would anyone normal want to be a politician?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,060

    According to the Beeb the vitally important reception is for Welsh Assembly members.

    Good to see Wales being recognised
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,400

    DavidL said:

    BBC now talking about Brokenshires gratitude and commenting on David Liddigton’s knowledge of Tudor history.
    Is that it?

    Part of a winning team on University Challenge twice apparently. Certainly a step up from David Lammy.
    I've often wondered if Lammy didn't do that on purpose. I can't think what he might have been trying to achieve but surely nobody could be that thick in real life?
    In fairness, I can well imagine even an experienced politician having something of a brain freeze with the music and the black chair. Good on him for having a go.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,265
    edited January 8

    Lolz.

    'Can I haff a cup of your finest char, my dear'

    Oh dear. Harris showing his ignorance. The Abwehr under Canaris spent almost the whole war undermining Hitler, helping Jews escape to neutral countries (Canaris appointed dozens of known Jewish officers and diplomats as spies to neutral countries where they promptly disappeared) and doing everything it could to make sure the Nazis lost. So much so that many of their members were eventually arrested and executed.
    They also dropped a series of ill-equipped spies into England with dodgy accents and even dodgier tweeds, which is I think is the not too obscure point.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 41,809
    Mr. Royale, agree entirely. Said it before, but more scrutiny of policies and less of politicians would make us better governed.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 12,463

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    O/T Jaguar sales up 20% in a year: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42603271

    Impressive.

    I was one of those.

    Doing my bit for UK Plc India.
    Amended
    Designed here, made here, mate.

    Although, it is true to say that we Brits can't run major companies for toffee.
    You're lining the pockets of foreign businessmen.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,728

    According to the Beeb the vitally important reception is for Welsh Assembly members.

    Good to see Wales being recognised
    True, of course, and the trains from Cardiff arn not as good as they could be.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 1,956
    Anazina said:

    TOPPING said:

    Apparently there is a pause due to a reception at no 10

    which shows a government fit for the future, doesn't it, Big G?
    Lot fitter than Corbyn's labour
    Weak, weak, weak. Your argument essentially boils down to "we are shit, but not as shit as the other lot hypothetically would be, were they in government, which they are not."
    Desperate times for the Tories...
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664

    Miss Anazina, given politics is a choice (in this case largely between Conservative and Labour), how is "the Conservatives are better than Labour" a weak argument?

    A choice made by the hard-right loons of the DUP in this case, yes, point taken.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,060

    According to the Beeb the vitally important reception is for Welsh Assembly members.

    Good to see Wales being recognised
    True, of course, and the trains from Cardiff arn not as good as they could be.
    Cardiff is impossible to reach from North Wales and is in many was detached from us. We can get to London quicker and have much more in common with Liverpool and Manchester
  • Don’t do this to me Theresa, I’ve already spent my Jeremy Hunt as next PM winnings.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,400
    The most penetrating analysis to date on the BBC website on the reshuffle is currently from Larry the cat. He's gone inside, apparently. This might be it.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-42602570
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    O/T Jaguar sales up 20% in a year: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42603271

    Impressive.

    I was one of those.

    Doing my bit for UK Plc India.
    Amended
    Designed here, made here, mate.

    Although, it is true to say that we Brits can't run major companies for toffee.
    A good choice of car too. The XF is a car with which I am familiar. A tremendous drive.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664

    According to the Beeb the vitally important reception is for Welsh Assembly members.

    Good to see Wales being recognised
    Clearly your heroine May hadn't realised Wales existed a month ago, when this reshuffle was scheduled.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,400

    Anazina said:

    It is amazing that at a time of significant national need, the Tories and Labour have conspired to present us with the worst government and opposition in living memory.


    We appear to have entered an age of reverse politics, whereby talentless extremists prosper while skilled pragmatists founder on the backbenches. One could quite easily select a strong cabinet from those sidelined by May's Brexit-botherers and Labour's PLP rebellion!
    It's hardly surprising when you're expected to be a Saint going back your whole life, yet also have real-life experience, put up with personal attacks and intrusion at any time, and your whole career can be finished with a single gaffe.

    Why would anyone normal want to be a politician?
    If we ever get a normal person as a politician we will no doubt find out.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,062

    Don’t do this to me Theresa, I’ve already spent my Jeremy Hunt as next PM winnings.

    Look on the bright side, he might flounce out in a huff and become the main focus of anti-Theresa feeling on the backbenches.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 1,956
    edited January 8
    Anazina said:

    Miss Anazina, given politics is a choice (in this case largely between Conservative and Labour), how is "the Conservatives are better than Labour" a weak argument?

    A choice made by the hard-right loons of the DUP in this case, yes, point taken.
    +1

    DUP are scum! Utter, utter scum...

    Just shows how low the Tories have fallen!
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664

    Anazina said:

    It is amazing that at a time of significant national need, the Tories and Labour have conspired to present us with the worst government and opposition in living memory.


    We appear to have entered an age of reverse politics, whereby talentless extremists prosper while skilled pragmatists founder on the backbenches. One could quite easily select a strong cabinet from those sidelined by May's Brexit-botherers and Labour's PLP rebellion!
    It's hardly surprising when you're expected to be a Saint going back your whole life, yet also have real-life experience, put up with personal attacks and intrusion at any time, and your whole career can be finished with a single gaffe.

    Why would anyone normal want to be a politician?
    No idea. It sounds like the worst life in the world to me.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anazina said:

    Can someone explain to me what the point of this 'reshuffle' was exactly? A couple of complete nobodies appointed to party roles, and entirely cosmetic departmental rebrand, and all of the big offices of state left untouched. A squib of the dampest order – one only the trio of true believers – Lotta, Morty and G-Man – could love.

    Clearly the point of it is to give people like you the opportunity to rubbish it, irrespective of what it actually comprised.

    So far it's a minor reshuffle, unsurprisingly given the circumstances, but it seems sensible enough. It's not like one of Blair's idiotic games of musical chairs which moved ministers around just at the point where there might be some small risk that they'd be about to master their briefs.
    Then someone, be it the govt's PR, or marketing, or communications directors are at fault.

    If it is not a Reshuffle fair enough, in which case expectations should have been managed down ("the right team in place but that's not to say we won't be welcoming new blood...") or it should have been all done by midday and they could move on.

    As it is, they allowed the build up of expectations, and then have dashed those expectations (of new blood, of a change, of clearing out the Augean stables, of whatever...) with a hugely underwhelming teeny tiny change dragged out over two days.

    So far...
    A full on Night of the Long Knives would have been fun, but TM is not NLK material. Knowing how she works, I'd say she planned something major (possibly on the unofficial advice which I bet she is still getting from Fiona and beardy), everyone from the 3 great officers of state to the downing street cat told her over the weekend that if she moved them she was dead meat, and she is now going through the motions but not actually doing anything.
    As was predicted over the weekend.

    That said, I don't think she could have avoided this one, which looks to have been prompted by James Brokenshire's lung. Hard to replace him - which couldn't be delayed - and not sort out the gap left by Green's departure. And if you replace two office-holders then it's become a reshuffle and you have to resolve other hanging issues, such as the CCHQ posts (which do look a decent set of appointments).

    Even so, the error was in allowing the story to leak out well before the changes were made.
    That strikes me as a very fair assessment, David.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 5,143
    Given the current headlines ("chaos reigns" etc), the thread header prediction was just about spot on.
    (Though it might have also included 'few will notice'.)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,693
    This so-called reshuffle is extremely boring.

    Can I distract everyone by saying how appallingly dressed pretty much all the actresses were at last night's Golden Globes. Not one stylish or elegant one in sight. A lot of vulgar flummery on display and some of the girls even seemed too poor to afford underwear.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 1,956
    Cyclefree said:

    This so-called reshuffle is extremely boring.

    Can I distract everyone by saying how appallingly dressed pretty much all the actresses were at last night's Golden Globes. Not one stylish or elegant one in sight. A lot of vulgar flummery on display and some of the girls even seemed too poor to afford underwear.

    Is this available on catch-up TV? ;)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,728

    According to the Beeb the vitally important reception is for Welsh Assembly members.

    Good to see Wales being recognised
    True, of course, and the trains from Cardiff arn not as good as they could be.
    Cardiff is impossible to reach from North Wales and is in many was detached from us. We can get to London quicker and have much more in common with Liverpool and Manchester
    We discussed the other day. Difficult to very difficult bit not totally impossible, even from Caernafon. Not too bad from Wrexham, though!
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,125
    With anyone else, I'd suggest that Jeremy Hunt would only be kept waiting if he had something really nice to wait for. But with Theresa May's personnel skills, that suggestion is not safe to make.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,634

    According to the Beeb the vitally important reception is for Welsh Assembly members.

    So basically 'Sorry to keep you waiting Jeremy, the PM is washing her hair!'
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 7,369
    murali_s said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This so-called reshuffle is extremely boring.

    Can I distract everyone by saying how appallingly dressed pretty much all the actresses were at last night's Golden Globes. Not one stylish or elegant one in sight. A lot of vulgar flummery on display and some of the girls even seemed too poor to afford underwear.

    Is this available on catch-up TV? ;)
    :D When the Mail write a paragraph like that they usually have the decency to provide pictures.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,060
    Anazina said:

    According to the Beeb the vitally important reception is for Welsh Assembly members.

    Good to see Wales being recognised
    Clearly your heroine May hadn't realised Wales existed a month ago, when this reshuffle was scheduled.
    The disaster in politics is Wales labour with a disgraceful record on health and education. I waited 64 weeks for my hernia operation. Furthermore Wales labour is embroiled in accusations of bullying and the sad suicide of Carl Sargeant. And we have had 5% year on year increases in council tax for the last five years
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,270
    @matt_dathan: Looks like Jeremy Hunt has successfully resisted attempts to move him - he stays at Health department, but now as Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,693
    murali_s said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This so-called reshuffle is extremely boring.

    Can I distract everyone by saying how appallingly dressed pretty much all the actresses were at last night's Golden Globes. Not one stylish or elegant one in sight. A lot of vulgar flummery on display and some of the girls even seemed too poor to afford underwear.

    Is this available on catch-up TV? ;)
    Exile to the sidebar of the Daily Mail for you.......
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,270
    @SamCoatesTimes: Social care portfolio moved from DCLG to Department for Health - Jeremy Hunt remains in job of the new combined role
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,796

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    At what point can I claim that this reshuffle would be much ado about nothing is vindicated? Its looking desperately dull at the moment.

    It really does typify how useless this bunch of donkeys are. May makes Brown look like a towering genius as PM. Easily the worst PM in history.
    Tories should not be trying to joke about anyone given the state of them, time they concentrated on the day job and stopped playing at toilet attendants.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 5,769
    Cyclefree said:

    This so-called reshuffle is extremely boring.

    Can I distract everyone by saying how appallingly dressed pretty much all the actresses were at last night's Golden Globes. Not one stylish or elegant one in sight. A lot of vulgar flummery on display and some of the girls even seemed too poor to afford underwear.

    Has Toby Young shared his thoughts on this topic?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,728
    Guardian says AM’s have left.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664

    Anazina said:

    According to the Beeb the vitally important reception is for Welsh Assembly members.

    Good to see Wales being recognised
    Clearly your heroine May hadn't realised Wales existed a month ago, when this reshuffle was scheduled.
    The disaster in politics is Wales labour with a disgraceful record on health and education. I waited 64 weeks for my hernia operation. Furthermore Wales labour is embroiled in accusations of bullying and the sad suicide of Carl Sargeant. And we have had 5% year on year increases in council tax for the last five years
    What has that got to do with this? Non sequitur.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,125
    Not a good day for those hoping for big promotions for outside chances. The timidity of the reshuffle makes you wonder why she is carrying it out at all.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,400
    Cyclefree said:

    This so-called reshuffle is extremely boring.

    Can I distract everyone by saying how appallingly dressed pretty much all the actresses were at last night's Golden Globes. Not one stylish or elegant one in sight. A lot of vulgar flummery on display and some of the girls even seemed too poor to afford underwear.

    The bizarre combination of black to show how serious they were and why their views should be listened to with the gratuitous exposure of so much flesh suggests that Hollywood may yet have some way to go.

    And it is. Boring, that is.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,270
    @MrHarryCole: Two hours inside No10 and Hunt - who was set to move - has not moved and no one has seen Greg Clark.. something is up.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 12,784
    murali_s said:

    Anazina said:

    Miss Anazina, given politics is a choice (in this case largely between Conservative and Labour), how is "the Conservatives are better than Labour" a weak argument?

    A choice made by the hard-right loons of the DUP in this case, yes, point taken.
    +1

    DUP are scum! Utter, utter scum...

    Just shows how low the Tories have fallen!
    Yet the DUP are still infinitely better than some of those the Labour leadership hang out with which just shows how low Labour have fallen.

    Besides which it was the electorate and not the Tories that made the deal with the DUP necessary. The electorate gave the Tories a majority in Great Britain and the DUP a majority in Northern Ireland.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 5,769
    Scott_P said:

    @matt_dathan: Looks like Jeremy Hunt has successfully resisted attempts to move him - he stays at Health department, but now as Secretary of State for Health and Social Care

    Jesus wept.

    This whole day has been a farce.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,728
    Scott_P said:

    @SamCoatesTimes: Social care portfolio moved from DCLG to Department for Health - Jeremy Hunt remains in job of the new combined role

    Makes sense to have them both under one SoS. Still leave some difficult relationships on the ground.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,693
    Anazina said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    O/T Jaguar sales up 20% in a year: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42603271

    Impressive.

    I was one of those.

    Doing my bit for UK Plc India.
    Amended
    Designed here, made here, mate.

    Although, it is true to say that we Brits can't run major companies for toffee.
    A good choice of car too. The XF is a car with which I am familiar. A tremendous drive.
    My last 3 cars have been Jaguars. Fantastic car.

    I shall be very sorry when we all have to be driven round in milk floats.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,060
    Scott_P said:

    @SamCoatesTimes: Social care portfolio moved from DCLG to Department for Health - Jeremy Hunt remains in job of the new combined role

    That is a good move and long overdue
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,062
    edited January 8
    Scott_P said:

    @SamCoatesTimes: Social care portfolio moved from DCLG to Department for Health - Jeremy Hunt remains in job of the new combined role

    If true, Bingo! That was the recommendation which our local Conservative branch made a few months ago in response to a Conservative Policy Forum consultation. Basically we said 'forget all the proposals you've asked us about, and do this instead.'
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 12,463
    Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 2,716

    Hunt stays at Health but govt adds ‘and social care’ to title of the department

    — Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) January 8, 2018
    That's good
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 7,369
    Does this mean social care is being taken off the councils?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,270
    @faisalislam: Downing St snapper suggests At this rate Williamson (who has just gone in) might become Defence and Guns Secretary
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 1,749

    Scott_P said:

    @matt_dathan: Looks like Jeremy Hunt has successfully resisted attempts to move him - he stays at Health department, but now as Secretary of State for Health and Social Care

    Jesus wept.

    This whole day has been a farce.
    Any news on Charlie Faulkener?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,060
    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    According to the Beeb the vitally important reception is for Welsh Assembly members.

    Good to see Wales being recognised
    Clearly your heroine May hadn't realised Wales existed a month ago, when this reshuffle was scheduled.
    The disaster in politics is Wales labour with a disgraceful record on health and education. I waited 64 weeks for my hernia operation. Furthermore Wales labour is embroiled in accusations of bullying and the sad suicide of Carl Sargeant. And we have had 5% year on year increases in council tax for the last five years
    What has that got to do with this? Non sequitur.
    You wouldn't say that if you lived in Wales and needed urgent health care as I did
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 7,369
    edited January 8
    Beaten to it (as so often) by @Scott_P
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,062
    TOPPING said:

    Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.

    Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 751
    Moving social care to the Health department is the first step towards the necessary combination of the heath and social care systems.

    Probably the most important announcement of the day.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,400
    Scott_P said:

    @MrHarryCole: Two hours inside No10 and Hunt - who was set to move - has not moved and no one has seen Greg Clark.. something is up.

    Occam's razor and past experience of Mrs May suggests it is pure incompetence, nothing more sinister.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,634
    Scott_P said:

    @matt_dathan: Looks like Jeremy Hunt has successfully resisted attempts to move him - he stays at Health department, but now as Secretary of State for Health and Social Care

    Any more money though? Otherwise his post is even more difficult
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,400

    Not a good day for those hoping for big promotions for outside chances. The timidity of the reshuffle makes you wonder why she is carrying it out at all.

    We have had 2 departments renamed. What more do you want?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 12,463

    TOPPING said:

    Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.

    Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
    Unless there is a reorg in the way it is overseen and delivered (horrible word) then little will change. If he is responsible and accountable then that will mean a real and welcome change.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,728

    Moving social care to the Health department is the first step towards the necessary combination of the heath and social care systems.

    Probably the most important announcement of the day.

    Indeed; it was Lansley who went some way to messing it up.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,693

    murali_s said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This so-called reshuffle is extremely boring.

    Can I distract everyone by saying how appallingly dressed pretty much all the actresses were at last night's Golden Globes. Not one stylish or elegant one in sight. A lot of vulgar flummery on display and some of the girls even seemed too poor to afford underwear.

    Is this available on catch-up TV? ;)
    :D When the Mail write a paragraph like that they usually have the decency to provide pictures.

    Helpfully, the Mail is full of pictures of young ladies with no underwear wearing some hideous black dresses. It looks like they're all at a Convention of Widowed Tarts.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 5,769
    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: Downing St snapper suggests At this rate Williamson (who has just gone in) might become Defence and Guns Secretary

    But will we have a new Sec of State for Planes, Trains and Automobiles?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,062
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.

    Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
    Unless there is a reorg in the way it is overseen and delivered (horrible word) then little will change. If he is responsible and accountable then that will mean a real and welcome change.
    Agreed. It requires a complete reorganisation right down to local hospital level. But this is a good and necessary step towards achieving that.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,270
    @nickeardleybbc: Greg Clark stays as Business Sec
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,400
    TOPPING said:

    Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.

    I suspect it means that May's ambitions for an Alzheimer's tax are not yet dead but if the focus is properly on ensuring that those needing social care are moved out of hospital beds faster that will be a good thing.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.

    Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
    Unless there is a reorg in the way it is overseen and delivered (horrible word) then little will change. If he is responsible and accountable then that will mean a real and welcome change.
    Health and Social Care should come together. If nothing else this now means Hunt is responsible for Social Care. Because at the moment the responsibility was dumped on councils but without either the funding or the ability to fund raise. This was causing a serious crisis both in social care provision and in Local Government funding.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,060

    Moving social care to the Health department is the first step towards the necessary combination of the heath and social care systems.

    Probably the most important announcement of the day.

    Agreed and one that will unite the party.

    Interesting that over the weekend Jeremy Hunt was talking of a ten year health and social care settlement.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,270
    @paulwaugh: So the quiet man dug in. Greg Clark stays as Business Secretary. NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,270
    @christopherhope: NEW Rt Hon Greg Clark MP remains Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy. Why is it taking so long to confirm that no one is moving? #CabinetShuffle
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,270
    @tnewtondunn: The reshuffle is now in serious trouble. Hunt was supposed to emerge from No10 as the new Business Secretary. Appears Greg Clark has refused to budge.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 10,714
    Theresa May coming across as incredibly dynamic today I must say...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,060

    Does this mean social care is being taken off the councils?

    Lets hope so
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,270
    @PolhomeEditor: And now Greg Clark remains as Business Secretary. Are we still allowed to call this a reshuffle? It's not even a shuffle.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,063
    edited January 8
    Scott_P said:

    @nickeardleybbc: Greg Clark stays as Business Sec

    lol, a 'major' reshuffle! Greening will end up feeling hard done by if she gets sacked / demoted. Still we may yet have the amusement of Ledsom going.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,693

    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: Downing St snapper suggests At this rate Williamson (who has just gone in) might become Defence and Guns Secretary

    But will we have a new Sec of State for Planes, Trains and Automobiles?

    Surely Grayling must be a shoo-in for that role?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,728

    Moving social care to the Health department is the first step towards the necessary combination of the heath and social care systems.

    Probably the most important announcement of the day.

    Agreed and one that will unite the party.

    Interesting that over the weekend Jeremy Hunt was talking of a ten year health and social care settlement.
    I don’t think that there’ll be much criticism of that across the parties.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,062
    edited January 8

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.

    Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
    Unless there is a reorg in the way it is overseen and delivered (horrible word) then little will change. If he is responsible and accountable then that will mean a real and welcome change.
    Health and Social Care should come together. If nothing else this now means Hunt is responsible for Social Care. Because at the moment the responsibility was dumped on councils but without either the funding or the ability to fund raise. This was causing a serious crisis both in social care provision and in Local Government funding.
    It's worse than that. At the moment there is an active disincentive to local councils to help the NHS get elderly people out of hospitals, since that immediately hits their budgets even if it saves more overall. It's a barmy structure.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 12,784

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.

    Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
    Unless there is a reorg in the way it is overseen and delivered (horrible word) then little will change. If he is responsible and accountable then that will mean a real and welcome change.
    Health and Social Care should come together. If nothing else this now means Hunt is responsible for Social Care. Because at the moment the responsibility was dumped on councils but without either the funding or the ability to fund raise. This was causing a serious crisis both in social care provision and in Local Government funding.
    So if the central government takes over responsibility for social care then does that mean that funding for Local Government, our Council Tax rates can be cut?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 12,463
    JonathanD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @nickeardleybbc: Greg Clark stays as Business Sec

    lol, a 'major' reshuffle! Greening will end up feeling hard done by if she gets sacked / demoted. Still we may yet have the amusement of Ledsom going.
    Don't forget Greening dug in her heels with Dave over the Coalition cabinet. No idea why or if she would think that Tezza is in a stronger position.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,270
    @MrHarryCole: Yep. And they haven't even got to Greening yet... this is fine....
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 870

    Moving social care to the Health department is the first step towards the necessary combination of the heath and social care systems.

    Probably the most important announcement of the day.

    Agreed and one that will unite the party.

    Interesting that over the weekend Jeremy Hunt was talking of a ten year health and social care settlement.
    yes agreed this makes a lot of sense, and a good first step. Would not object to social care moving out of council control in its entirety.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,062

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.

    Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
    Unless there is a reorg in the way it is overseen and delivered (horrible word) then little will change. If he is responsible and accountable then that will mean a real and welcome change.
    Health and Social Care should come together. If nothing else this now means Hunt is responsible for Social Care. Because at the moment the responsibility was dumped on councils but without either the funding or the ability to fund raise. This was causing a serious crisis both in social care provision and in Local Government funding.
    So if the central government takes over responsibility for social care then does that mean that funding for Local Government, our Council Tax rates can be cut?
    Wanna guess?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,270
    @JGForsyth: Renaming 1 department might be sensible, but renaming 2 begins to make it look like you think you can take care of the difficult bit in the title
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,728

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.

    Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
    Unless there is a reorg in the way it is overseen and delivered (horrible word) then little will change. If he is responsible and accountable then that will mean a real and welcome change.
    Health and Social Care should come together. If nothing else this now means Hunt is responsible for Social Care. Because at the moment the responsibility was dumped on councils but without either the funding or the ability to fund raise. This was causing a serious crisis both in social care provision and in Local Government funding.
    So if the central government takes over responsibility for social care then does that mean that funding for Local Government, our Council Tax rates can be cut?
    You are assuming that everything has been thought through!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 10,714
    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: The reshuffle is now in serious trouble. Hunt was supposed to emerge from No10 as the new Business Secretary. Appears Greg Clark has refused to budge.

    How can he "refuse" to budge?
  • Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: The reshuffle is now in serious trouble. Hunt was supposed to emerge from No10 as the new Business Secretary. Appears Greg Clark has refused to budge.

    No one will notice
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 12,463
    On the optics/politics side, she has also missed a trick.

    She should have had a press conference, scheduled or impromptu, with Hunt at her side and made an announcement that henceforth she would be adding social care to health..etc, etc...

    Instead, the announcement is all but overshadowed by the stasis of the non-reshuffle.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 1,057

    Moving social care to the Health department is the first step towards the necessary combination of the heath and social care systems.

    Probably the most important announcement of the day.

    Agreed and one that will unite the party.

    Interesting that over the weekend Jeremy Hunt was talking of a ten year health and social care settlement.
    It'll unite the country I think. Next step is to take seriously the all-party letter from 90 MPs asking for some points to be accepted after 70 years of the NHS and to move on from that. This doc. attempts to decipher facts from fiction

    https://fullfact.org/health/has-nhs-been-judged-best-healthcare-system-world/?utm_source=content_page&utm_medium=related_content
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 448

    Anazina said:

    According to the Beeb the vitally important reception is for Welsh Assembly members.

    Good to see Wales being recognised
    Clearly your heroine May hadn't realised Wales existed a month ago, when this reshuffle was scheduled.
    The disaster in politics is Wales labour with a disgraceful record on health and education. I waited 64 weeks for my hernia operation. Furthermore Wales labour is embroiled in accusations of bullying and the sad suicide of Carl Sargeant. And we have had 5% year on year increases in council tax for the last five years
    Can't agree on a personal level with your statements, particularly in terms of the health service in Wales which from my own experience is very different from yours. The service provided has improved substantially over the last 6 years.

    My Mother died in 2011 in the Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, mid scandal. The service she received was negligent and her last day on this earth was truly shocking and a moral disgrace.

    My 86 year old Father has been in the same hospital since a car accident on 11th October. The quality of service has been exceptional! The clinical care has been faultless and the management at ward level has been highly professional. True, some of the staff couldn't care less, but these people are in the minority and generally agency nurses.

    I suspect there is more to the Carl Sargeant issue than meets the eye, but I do hope his son wins the seat in The Welsh Assembly.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,063
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: The reshuffle is now in serious trouble. Hunt was supposed to emerge from No10 as the new Business Secretary. Appears Greg Clark has refused to budge.

    How can he "refuse" to budge?
    His personal reassurance to all the Japanese companies that the UK government will keep frictionless trading with the EU? If Clark goes, bye-bye Nissan, Honda and Toyota.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,062
    I love the way journalists make up stories about some minister being moved and then when it doesn't happen make up another story about the minister refusing to budge.

    Especially when the minister is Greg Clark, whose political clout in a hypothetical refusal to budge would be approximately the square root of zero.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 12,784

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.

    Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
    Unless there is a reorg in the way it is overseen and delivered (horrible word) then little will change. If he is responsible and accountable then that will mean a real and welcome change.
    Health and Social Care should come together. If nothing else this now means Hunt is responsible for Social Care. Because at the moment the responsibility was dumped on councils but without either the funding or the ability to fund raise. This was causing a serious crisis both in social care provision and in Local Government funding.
    So if the central government takes over responsibility for social care then does that mean that funding for Local Government, our Council Tax rates can be cut?
    Wanna guess?
    I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for a cut.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,060
    The big story coming out of this is the combination of Health and Social care in one department

    Let's hope that this is the beginning of a grown up debate seeking consensus and taking this most important of subjects out of party politics
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 13,655

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.

    Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
    Unless there is a reorg in the way it is overseen and delivered (horrible word) then little will change. If he is responsible and accountable then that will mean a real and welcome change.
    Health and Social Care should come together. If nothing else this now means Hunt is responsible for Social Care. Because at the moment the responsibility was dumped on councils but without either the funding or the ability to fund raise. This was causing a serious crisis both in social care provision and in Local Government funding.
    It's worse than that. At the moment there is an active disincentive to local councils to help the NHS get elderly people out of hospitals, since that immediately hits their budgets even if it saves more overall. It's a barmy structure.
    Spot on. Bringing responsibility for both within the same budget would deliver plenty of efficiencies just by cutting out exactly those sort of politics, never mind those that would come from working together.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,693
    I must say we really are quite blessed with our leaders.

    We have Corbyn who couldn't find anyone to fill places in his reshuffle and took 3 weeks to complete it. And May who manages to move no-one at all and takes almost as long.

    There must be something in the air to give us such a splendid choice.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 7,948
    Well, this is exciting isn't it. Waiting for the number 10 to fall of the door.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,062
    edited January 8

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Explicitly recognising Social Care is sensible and overdue. If there is an associated increase in budget to accompany the rebrand.

    Even without an increase in overall budget it's a very good idea.
    Unless there is a reorg in the way it is overseen and delivered (horrible word) then little will change. If he is responsible and accountable then that will mean a real and welcome change.
    Health and Social Care should come together. If nothing else this now means Hunt is responsible for Social Care. Because at the moment the responsibility was dumped on councils but without either the funding or the ability to fund raise. This was causing a serious crisis both in social care provision and in Local Government funding.
    So if the central government takes over responsibility for social care then does that mean that funding for Local Government, our Council Tax rates can be cut?
    Wanna guess?
    I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for a cut.
    Yeah, don't borrow the money you think you might save!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,270
    Meanwhile...

    @elashton: In HoC, Sarah Wollaston says Toby Young should be asked to resign. "The kind of person who would tweet comments to a woman that talk about masturbating over images of refugees, I'm afraid it just does cross a line."
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,063
    TOPPING said:

    On the optics/politics side, she has also missed a trick.

    She should have had a press conference, scheduled or impromptu, with Hunt at her side and made an announcement that henceforth she would be adding social care to health..etc, etc...

    Instead, the announcement is all but overshadowed by the stasis of the non-reshuffle.

    Good point. She is useless at this politics lark...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,400

    The big story coming out of this is the combination of Health and Social care in one department

    Let's hope that this is the beginning of a grown up debate seeking consensus and taking this most important of subjects out of party politics

    What on earth would the Labour Party talk about then? #notgoingtohappen
This discussion has been closed.