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  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 33,890
    @George_Osborne: Glad to see many of the old Treasury team thriving (and surviving) in this unusual reshuffle - well done @DavidGauke @DamianHinds @sajidjavid @GregClarkMP and my former chief of staff @MattHancock. All competent, creative, hardworking and good to work with.
  • Damian Hinds gets worse.

    1) He's a Papist

    2) He went to Oxford

    3) He read PPE

    That said, George Osborne rates him.

  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 3,770
    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    Perhaps by keeping her head down and looking busy? Personally, I suspect that she is more of a foot-soldier than a General. She simply does not seem to be up to the job of developing policy and strategy.

    Like Gordon Brown, she appears to be a living embodiment of the Peter Principle.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,045
    Why even both to explain it Mr Hunt? I'm reminded of the media chap from Yes Minister talking about stats, about how most won't take them in and of those who do many won't understand them, and if they do many won't believe them - most won't have noticed you did it, and of those who did plenty won't believe the denial of its apparent meaning.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 33,890
    @tnewtondunn: It appears Esther McVey is about to be made the new DWP Secretary. That's quite a leap.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 981
    So all the talk of promoting fresh talent and more female cabinet ministers equates to one woman out and one woman in.....
  • crandlescrandles Posts: 25


    It is conceptually quite difficult to do. There are some luxury developments, in particular, where leasehold service charges make sense for houses.

    Which raises the question: is it the leasehold we have a problem with? Or was it a novel investment product - the ground rent escalator - that the housebuilders invented, then flogged?

    If the ground rent had been a flat £100/year, I doubt anyone would have cared.

    If it was £100/year increasing 5% or less a year, I doubt anyone would have cared. £10000 a year increasing 5% a year might be different though.

    I agree that it is excessive escalator that is the problem that should be addressed. How to address it is more a problem than deciding the escalator is the problem. Perhaps if the rate is any higher than 1.5* higher of (inflation, available interest rate on savings) then it should get caught as an unfair contract term unless the parties explicitly sign to say they understand the implications of the escalator and don't want unfair contract terms act to apply?

    Not sure I see the problem with luxury developments: If it is a new house, sell freehold to the land the house is on but perhaps not the communal grounds and sale contract makes clear no use of services is allowed (perhaps not even right of way to property) unless you enter a contract which will then require a service charge to be paid.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 10,735

    Damian Hinds gets worse.

    1) He's a Papist

    2) He went to Oxford

    3) He read PPE

    That said, George Osborne rates him.

    Good headlines coming in the Standard then
  • Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: It appears Esther McVey is about to be made the new DWP Secretary. That's quite a leap.

    That makes JohnO and myself very happy.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 10,735
    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: It appears Esther McVey is about to be made the new DWP Secretary. That's quite a leap.

    That would be sensational
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 10,735

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: It appears Esther McVey is about to be made the new DWP Secretary. That's quite a leap.

    That makes JohnO and myself very happy.
    And me if true
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 5,281
    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: It appears Esther McVey is about to be made the new DWP Secretary. That's quite a leap.

    Bingo!
  • Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: It appears Esther McVey is about to be made the new DWP Secretary. That's quite a leap.

    McVile? She was adored as Minister of State. Tories couldnt pick anyone with more warmth and empathy for the job...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 17,926

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: It appears Esther McVey is about to be made the new DWP Secretary. That's quite a leap.

    That makes JohnO and myself very happy.
    And me if true
    And me. Having forecast it earlier in the thread
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,116
    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    We the British public.
    I didn't vote for this shower of shits.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 293

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: It appears Esther McVey is about to be made the new DWP Secretary. That's quite a leap.

    That would be sensational
    You have to feel for McVey – DWP is a disaster zone thanks to IDS's horrific handling of universal credit
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 10,735
    Anazina said:

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: It appears Esther McVey is about to be made the new DWP Secretary. That's quite a leap.

    That would be sensational
    You have to feel for McVey – DWP is a disaster zone thanks to IDS's horrific handling of universal credit
    And for the atrocious abuse she received from John McDonnell
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,054
    The reshuffle has turned into Tory Musical Chairs where the last person is left with DWP after all other chairs are removed.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 10,735
    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    We the British public.
    I didn't vote for this shower of shits.
    But you only have one vote like the rest of us
  • crandles said:

    crandles said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Be good if the housing minister took a serious look at UK housebuilders selling new houses on a leasehold basis.Seems to me just a scam to make more money .Also it leaves the buyers in a leasehold property trap.

    It's going to be banned, the government has announced.

    Interestingly they are seeking to bean leasehold "houses" (i.e. not flats) rather than just escalating ground rents. I do wonder how that is supposed to work.
    Thats cos you can't ban leasehold flats, the flats belong to whoever owns the land so to do flats on different floors belonging to different people there is no other way than having leasehold flats. Think they are just banning new leasehold houses.
    I meant, how it is they can ban leasehold houses and more than flats.

    There is no legal thing as a flat. If anything its leaseholds status is a giveaway.
    Did you mean "how it is they can ban leasehold houses any more than flats?"
    Note I said it was *new* leasehold houses they are banning. So if it is existing house or flat it can continue, but if you try to do it with a newly built house, presumably 'leasehold sale' will be voidable as illegal.
    I wonder if enterprising developers will stop building semi-detached houses side-by-side and build them instead as two flats, one above the other?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 33,890
    @simondhodges: @Alison_McGovern In a reshuffle that's been trailed for weeks, so far the PM has managed to sack no-one.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 5,281

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: It appears Esther McVey is about to be made the new DWP Secretary. That's quite a leap.

    McVile? She was adored as Minister of State. Tories couldnt pick anyone with more warmth and empathy for the job...
    As I forecast at 7:10pm:

    "Give it to Esther. She oozes empathy."
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 293

    The reshuffle has turned into Tory Musical Chairs where the last person is left with DWP after all other chairs are removed.

    :)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,045
    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    We the British public.
    I didn't vote for this shower of shits.
    Go down that route and we can all claim not to have done so, since we only voted for own own MPs (or their opponents), and unless they happen to be one of the Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet its not out fault. But the public's vote returned the numbers we have, and we all knew who the leaderships were and how well they can deal with things, so yes we got and get what we deserve.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,555
    edited January 8
    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT as more relevant here:

    HYUFD said:

    No it isn't, even Barnier has said we will get a Canada style FTA on goods if we leave the single market and end free movement
    Where ‘we’ doesn’t mean the United Kingdom, but Great Britain. Can the Conservative and Unionist Party, propped up by the DUP, afford to do that?

    Wrong again, it was agreement over the Irish border and some regulatory alignment which enabled FTA talks to begin but free movement will still end and we will still leave the single market
    Do you really believe the agreement means that a Canada style deal could apply to Northern Ireland?
    As I said the regulatory alignment in so far as NI goes will apply but the UK will still end free movement and leave the single market
    Will a Polish citizen in Dublin need a work permit to transfer to the Belfast branch of their company or will free movement apply?
    Probably the former but as NI voted Remain some flexibility could be allowed, it is England and Wales where free movement really has to end as both voted Leave
    Splendid news. By that token London will also have 'flexibility' on freedom of movement as it voted heavily for Remain. At last some sense is being restored to proceedings!!
    No as London is not one of the 3 nations and 1 province of the UK but a city of England. In any case it is tariffs the Irish want to avoid not to protect free movement for Polish plumbers
    Brexit is a complete mess and requires imaginative thinking. London is a devolved region of the UK with its own directly elected administration. Regional visas work perfectly well in other countries, such as Canada. The obsession from neobrexiteers like yourself with forcing restrictions on free movement on the UK, sorry GB, sorry England & Wales is prevent sensible solutions being found.
    52% voted Leave to end free movement in large part and even most Londoners care more about getting a trade deal than keeping free movement
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 10,735
    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: It appears Esther McVey is about to be made the new DWP Secretary. That's quite a leap.

    That makes JohnO and myself very happy.
    And me if true
    And me. Having forecast it earlier in the thread
    Odds on next pm should be interesting
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 33,890
    @PaulBrandITV: NEW: Esther McVey becomes Sec of State for Work and Pensions. She’s had problems before getting her tone right in that dept so will be an interesting one to watch #cabinetreshuffle
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 33,890
    @paulwaugh: It's taken nearly nine hours but May has just appointed her first new woman Cabinet minister of the day. No.10: The Queen has been pleased to approve the appointment of the Rt Hon Esther McVey as Secretary of State for Work and Pensions.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,045

    The reshuffle has turned into Tory Musical Chairs where the last person is left with DWP after all other chairs are removed.

    In fairness, if you were compiling a list of government departments you didn't want to head up then even without Universal Credit to sort out DWP would be high on the list.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 19,519
    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    She's rubbish at politics, okay at administration.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 5,281
    I would all PBers of a betting persuasion to go balls deep on #Esther4Leader before her odds drop.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,116

    Damian Hinds gets worse.

    1) He's a Papist

    2) He went to Oxford

    3) He read PPE

    Hello - what's wrong with your number (1)? Substitute some other religion, preferably using a vaguely derogatory term, if that helps.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,116
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    She's rubbish at politics, okay at administration.
    And by administration you mean what, exactly? Because she appears to be utterly useless at developing and managing a team. Is she fantastically good at filing? Is that it?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 19,519
    Cyclefree said:

    Damian Hinds gets worse.

    1) He's a Papist

    2) He went to Oxford

    3) He read PPE

    Hello - what's wrong with your number (1)? Substitute some other religion, preferably using a vaguely derogatory term, if that helps.
    TSE is a Wee Free at heart.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 10,735

    I would all PBers of a betting persuasion to go balls deep on #Esther4Leader before her odds drop.

    She will rocket up the odds
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 981
    So Esther gets the poisoned chalice. She’s now got the fight of her life to turn DWP around...
  • Cyclefree said:

    Damian Hinds gets worse.

    1) He's a Papist

    2) He went to Oxford

    3) He read PPE

    Hello - what's wrong with your number (1)? Substitute some other religion, preferably using a vaguely derogatory term, if that helps.
    Some Catholics only have a loyalty to the Pope/Rome and not the UK.

    Cf - Jacob Rees-Mogg

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/02/04/tory-mp-rees-mogg-i-take-my-whip-from-the-roman-catholic-church/
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 1,842
    edited January 8
    So what have we had?
    Wrong Chair announced then unannounced.
    Vice Chair for women opposes women's rights
    Hunt refuses to move
    Clarke (EDIT, not Hands...) refuses to move
    Greening refuses DWP disaster job and goes off to lead remain rebels
    McVile reappointed to DWP after previous stint got her hated so much she lost her seat

    Quality piece of work
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,116

    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    We the British public.
    I didn't vote for this shower of shits.
    But you only have one vote like the rest of us
    I know. And given how I feel at the moment about what's on offer, I am likely to be joining the Meeks party: turning up to abstain - in disgust - in person.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 12,280
    Cyclefree said:

    Damian Hinds gets worse.

    1) He's a Papist

    2) He went to Oxford

    3) He read PPE

    Hello - what's wrong with your number (1)? Substitute some other religion, preferably using a vaguely derogatory term, if that helps.
    He believes in Sky Fairy Magic and not science and evidence ... and we're making him responsible for Education?

    Feel free to switch that with some other religion if you wish.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 19,519
    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    She's rubbish at politics, okay at administration.
    And by administration you mean what, exactly? Because she appears to be utterly useless at developing and managing a team. Is she fantastically good at filing? Is that it?
    In terms of doing Brexit and economic management, she's okay. Not great, but okay.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 293
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    She's rubbish at politics, okay at administration.
    She's generally dire at both. She might be okay at clipping letters together with paperclips. I am willing to concede that much.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 943
    HYUFD said:

    OchEye said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reports that Chuka Umanna has flounced out of a PLP meeting because Corbyn has reiterated Labour's policy of leaving the Single Market and Customs Union:

    18:55

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/jan/08/cabinet-reshuffle-theresa-may-tory-government-pm-to-start-shifting-ministers-politics-live

    The battle between Umunna and Corbyn's view of the Labour Party will dominate Labour for the next decade, Umunna clearly wants to be Macron to Corbyn's Hollande
    Except Umunna and Ian Murray still believe that they are Blair's successors, along with Kinnock and Smith, and that all they have to do is just wait until the membership sees the errors of their ways and return to the true New Labour path... Ain't gonna happen. Murray is a very good constituency MP, just a very lousy tactical Westminster one, but like Kinnock and Smith, if the new constituency alignments come in, then they will lose their seats, and with their records, they will have difficulty in getting new ones as the new CLP's will be able to decide who the candidates will be, and the new executive committees will not be made up from the friends of the previous MP's.
    Macron only got elected after Hollande faced heavy defeat, Hollande still narrowly beat Sarkozy first
    Umunna has, I understand few supporters in the PLP, certainly very few in the general membership, and unless he starts a new party, ala Macron, with similar aims and members to become MP's, councillors and officials, although the would be able to gain substantial financial support from the usual suspects, he will be wandering the halls, passages and cellars of Westminster, as the once and no longer, potential great leader who never was....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 10,735
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    We the British public.
    I didn't vote for this shower of shits.
    But you only have one vote like the rest of us
    I know. And given how I feel at the moment about what's on offer, I am likely to be joining the Meeks party: turning up to abstain - in disgust - in person.
    Shame really for someone who contributes so well to this forum
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    We the British public.
    I didn't vote for this shower of shits.
    But you only have one vote like the rest of us
    I know. And given how I feel at the moment about what's on offer, I am likely to be joining the Meeks party: turning up to abstain - in disgust - in person.
    Are you going to be one of those who writes on the ballot paper next to each candidate

    'They are a [insert rude word]'

    Because I love counting those ballot papers.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 10,735

    So what have we had?
    Wrong Chair announced then unannounced.
    Vice Chair for women opposes women's rights
    Hunt refuses to move
    Hands refuses to move
    Greening refuses DWP disaster job and goes off to lead remain rebels
    McVile reappointed to DWP after previous stint got her hated so much she lost her seat

    Quality piece of work

    Greening will not lead the rebels. Grieve does that
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 19,519
    Foxy said:

    Anazina said:

    Does the government even have a Brexit majority in Parliament? The recent vote that they lost thanks to a europhile rebellion suggests not.

    P.S. I don't remember Justine being one of the rebels. I see that she could make matters worse!
    Greening was part of the "payroll vote" she'd have to resign from Cabinet to rebel.

    Now she's a free agent. She only has the whip to worry about so she can rebel to her hearts content.
    She also has one of the most pro-Remain constituencies in the country.
    Fairly marginal too...
    it's strange to recall she was a right wing eurosceptic, when elected.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,116

    Cyclefree said:

    Damian Hinds gets worse.

    1) He's a Papist

    2) He went to Oxford

    3) He read PPE

    Hello - what's wrong with your number (1)? Substitute some other religion, preferably using a vaguely derogatory term, if that helps.
    He believes in Sky Fairy Magic and not science and evidence ... and we're making him responsible for Education?

    Feel free to switch that with some other religion if you wish.
    You're making a wholly unsubstantiated assumption that if you are religious you do not believe in science or evidence. Try telling that to all the doctors and scientists and teachers and lawyers and judges who are practising Jews or Muslims or Christians or Hindus or Sikhs or Quakers.

    Not everyone who is religious is some sort of creationist.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 293
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    She's rubbish at politics, okay at administration.
    And by administration you mean what, exactly? Because she appears to be utterly useless at developing and managing a team. Is she fantastically good at filing? Is that it?
    In terms of doing Brexit and economic management, she's okay. Not great, but okay.
    Again, you are suffering from delusions of mediocrity. She is bloody awful on the first point, and largely uninvolved on the latter one.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 25,664
    Delurking for second...

    I reckon May would promote J. Corbyn ahead of the likes of Rory the Tory, Kwasi Kwarteng and Johnny Mercer....
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 293

    Cyclefree said:

    Damian Hinds gets worse.

    1) He's a Papist

    2) He went to Oxford

    3) He read PPE

    Hello - what's wrong with your number (1)? Substitute some other religion, preferably using a vaguely derogatory term, if that helps.
    He believes in Sky Fairy Magic and not science and evidence ... and we're making him responsible for Education?

    Feel free to switch that with some other religion if you wish.

    Indeed it would be best if superstitious unicorn botherers of all ilks kept their distance from the great levers of state.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,417
    Greening is not someone I would have on the back benches, give it a few months and she'll be the 12th traitor.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 19,519
    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    She's rubbish at politics, okay at administration.
    And by administration you mean what, exactly? Because she appears to be utterly useless at developing and managing a team. Is she fantastically good at filing? Is that it?
    In terms of doing Brexit and economic management, she's okay. Not great, but okay.
    Again, you are suffering from delusions of mediocrity. She is bloody awful on the first point, and largely uninvolved on the latter one.
    Disagree. She probably falls in the top 10% of world leaders, meaning the bar is not set very high, but there it is.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,045

    Cyclefree said:

    Damian Hinds gets worse.

    1) He's a Papist

    2) He went to Oxford

    3) He read PPE

    Hello - what's wrong with your number (1)? Substitute some other religion, preferably using a vaguely derogatory term, if that helps.
    He believes in Sky Fairy Magic and not science and evidence ... and we're making him responsible for Education?

    .
    Umm, you're only allowed to be in charge of Education if you are an atheist?!

    I am an atheist and that seems...an extreme view.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 10,735
    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    She's rubbish at politics, okay at administration.
    And by administration you mean what, exactly? Because she appears to be utterly useless at developing and managing a team. Is she fantastically good at filing? Is that it?
    In terms of doing Brexit and economic management, she's okay. Not great, but okay.
    Again, you are suffering from delusions of mediocrity. She is bloody awful on the first point, and largely uninvolved on the latter one.
    You only say that because she is taking us out of Europe against your wishes, but in accordance with tbe result of a democratic vote
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,116

    Cyclefree said:

    Damian Hinds gets worse.

    1) He's a Papist

    2) He went to Oxford

    3) He read PPE

    Hello - what's wrong with your number (1)? Substitute some other religion, preferably using a vaguely derogatory term, if that helps.
    Some Catholics only have a loyalty to the Pope/Rome and not the UK.

    Cf - Jacob Rees-Mogg

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/02/04/tory-mp-rees-mogg-i-take-my-whip-from-the-roman-catholic-church/
    I appear to have been transported back to the seventeenth century.

    Catholics are not loyal to the UK - Okaaay. We'd better have the vote removed then. Maybe expulsion is in order.

    Honestly: if someone said that of Muslims you'd be - rightly - all over them. When some attack Jews for being part of some global Jewish conspiracy with no loyalty to the nation where they live you attack them for channelling classic anti-semitic tropes.

    But when one MP explains his views on religious issues you extrapolate that to Catholics - only some mind (though on what basis it's not clear). Perhaps Catholics should be forced to sign up to some form of loyalty test. I believe someone in UKIP suggested something similar a while back.

    Pfft.....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,045

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    We the British public.
    I didn't vote for this shower of shits.
    But you only have one vote like the rest of us
    I know. And given how I feel at the moment about what's on offer, I am likely to be joining the Meeks party: turning up to abstain - in disgust - in person.
    Are you going to be one of those who writes on the ballot paper next to each candidate

    'They are a [insert rude word]'

    Because I love counting those ballot papers.
    It passes the time. The good thing is writing does not automatically invalidate your vote of course. But the best was from someone who obviously wasn't willing to take that risk, so they had stuck a post-it note to the ballot paper, with at least 100 words written on it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,045
    edited January 8

    Cyclefree said:

    Damian Hinds gets worse.

    1) He's a Papist

    2) He went to Oxford

    3) He read PPE

    Hello - what's wrong with your number (1)? Substitute some other religion, preferably using a vaguely derogatory term, if that helps.
    Some Catholics only have a loyalty to the Pope/Rome and not the UK.

    Cf - Jacob Rees-Mogg

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/02/04/tory-mp-rees-mogg-i-take-my-whip-from-the-roman-catholic-church/
    And that is a barrier once again to holding public office? I feel like that explanation is more just hoping someone will make a 'Like having loyalty to the EU over the UK' remark, given we relaxed the rules on Catholics some while ago.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 293
    HYUFD

    Again, you can't infer that from the vote, the ballot paper said leave the EU, nothing more. And we have already had this conversation. Once again you are projecting your own contentions and presenting them as fact.

    This obsession with forcing restrictions on free movement on places that haven't asked for them is preventing sensible solutions from being found. Why not use regional visas in London as Canada does in some provinces? What is wrong with that idea exactly? Difficult times require imaginative thinking, not stubbornness.

    It genuinely is an obsession – this stopping the foreigners coming in – both of brexiteers and neobrexiteers like yourself who suffer from the zeal of the convert.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 5,973
    Good evening all.

    When I called Mrs May 'Calamity Jane' the other day, it was meant to be an epithet not an instruction.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Damian Hinds gets worse.

    1) He's a Papist

    2) He went to Oxford

    3) He read PPE

    Hello - what's wrong with your number (1)? Substitute some other religion, preferably using a vaguely derogatory term, if that helps.
    Some Catholics only have a loyalty to the Pope/Rome and not the UK.

    Cf - Jacob Rees-Mogg

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/02/04/tory-mp-rees-mogg-i-take-my-whip-from-the-roman-catholic-church/
    I appear to have been transported back to the seventeenth century.

    Catholics are not loyal to the UK - Okaaay. We'd better have the vote removed then. Maybe expulsion is in order.

    Honestly: if someone said that of Muslims you'd be - rightly - all over them. When some attack Jews for being part of some global Jewish conspiracy with no loyalty to the nation where they live you attack them for channelling classic anti-semitic tropes.

    But when one MP explains his views on religious issues you extrapolate that to Catholics - only some mind (though on what basis it's not clear). Perhaps Catholics should be forced to sign up to some form of loyalty test. I believe someone in UKIP suggested something similar a while back.

    Pfft.....
    It is a joke.

    Someone on here said they had qualms about a Muslim Mayor of London but had no qualms about JRM as PM.

    We've had some shameful anti-Catholic laws in this country, some only repealed quite recently
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,116

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    We the British public.
    I didn't vote for this shower of shits.
    But you only have one vote like the rest of us
    I know. And given how I feel at the moment about what's on offer, I am likely to be joining the Meeks party: turning up to abstain - in disgust - in person.
    Shame really for someone who contributes so well to this forum
    Well, the election is some time away. I have never abstained so far. But what is on offer is so utterly awful it makes my eyes bleed.

    And my constituency is now a safe Labour seat. It has been a marginal until now. So my vote will make the square root of sod all difference.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 293
    Scott_P said:

    @simondhodges: @Alison_McGovern In a reshuffle that's been trailed for weeks, so far the PM has managed to sack no-one.

    Paddy McLoughlin got sacked I believe?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,116
    Anazina said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Damian Hinds gets worse.

    1) He's a Papist

    2) He went to Oxford

    3) He read PPE

    Hello - what's wrong with your number (1)? Substitute some other religion, preferably using a vaguely derogatory term, if that helps.
    He believes in Sky Fairy Magic and not science and evidence ... and we're making him responsible for Education?

    Feel free to switch that with some other religion if you wish.

    Indeed it would be best if superstitious unicorn botherers of all ilks kept their distance from the great levers of state.

    Oh hello. You must be one of those liberals people keep referring to.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 293

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Damian Hinds gets worse.

    1) He's a Papist

    2) He went to Oxford

    3) He read PPE

    Hello - what's wrong with your number (1)? Substitute some other religion, preferably using a vaguely derogatory term, if that helps.
    Some Catholics only have a loyalty to the Pope/Rome and not the UK.

    Cf - Jacob Rees-Mogg

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/02/04/tory-mp-rees-mogg-i-take-my-whip-from-the-roman-catholic-church/
    I appear to have been transported back to the seventeenth century.

    Catholics are not loyal to the UK - Okaaay. We'd better have the vote removed then. Maybe expulsion is in order.

    Honestly: if someone said that of Muslims you'd be - rightly - all over them. When some attack Jews for being part of some global Jewish conspiracy with no loyalty to the nation where they live you attack them for channelling classic anti-semitic tropes.

    But when one MP explains his views on religious issues you extrapolate that to Catholics - only some mind (though on what basis it's not clear). Perhaps Catholics should be forced to sign up to some form of loyalty test. I believe someone in UKIP suggested something similar a while back.

    Pfft.....
    It is a joke.

    Someone on here said they had qualms about a Muslim Mayor of London but had no qualms about JRM as PM.

    We've had some shameful anti-Catholic laws in this country, some only repealed quite recently
    Yes, most of them involved the monarchy – a bastion of reactionary thinking that has long past its sell-by date.
  • kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    We the British public.
    I didn't vote for this shower of shits.
    But you only have one vote like the rest of us
    I know. And given how I feel at the moment about what's on offer, I am likely to be joining the Meeks party: turning up to abstain - in disgust - in person.
    Are you going to be one of those who writes on the ballot paper next to each candidate

    'They are a [insert rude word]'

    Because I love counting those ballot papers.
    It passes the time. The good thing is writing does not automatically invalidate your vote of course. But the best was from someone who obviously wasn't willing to take that risk, so they had stuck a post-it note to the ballot paper, with at least 100 words written on it.
    My favourite was the ballot paper was the one with a penis drawn against one candidate.

    Candidate said it showed a clear preference for him.

    The returning officer said no, it would only be a clear preference if the drawn penis was erect.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 8,849

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    Perhaps by keeping her head down and looking busy? Personally, I suspect that she is more of a foot-soldier than a General. She simply does not seem to be up to the job of developing policy and strategy.

    Like Gordon Brown, she appears to be a living embodiment of the Peter Principle.
    Just an observation that Cameron, Osborne, Leadsom, Johnson, Grove all failed to keep her from no 10.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 10,735
    Anazina said:

    HYUFD

    Again, you can't infer that from the vote, the ballot paper said leave the EU, nothing more. And we have already had this conversation. Once again you are projecting your own contentions and presenting them as fact.

    This obsession with forcing restrictions on free movement on places that haven't asked for them is preventing sensible solutions from being found. Why not use regional visas in London as Canada does in some provinces? What is wrong with that idea exactly? Difficult times require imaginative thinking, not stubbornness.

    It genuinely is an obsession – this stopping the foreigners coming in – both of brexiteers and neobrexiteers like yourself who suffer from the zeal of the convert.

    Once we have control I have no problem with work visas for anyone from anywhere in the globe coming to live, work and contribute to the UK. I detest this word used by so many ' foreigners'
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,045
    Cyclefree said:

    Anazina said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Damian Hinds gets worse.

    1) He's a Papist

    2) He went to Oxford

    3) He read PPE

    Hello - what's wrong with your number (1)? Substitute some other religion, preferably using a vaguely derogatory term, if that helps.
    He believes in Sky Fairy Magic and not science and evidence ... and we're making him responsible for Education?

    Feel free to switch that with some other religion if you wish.

    Indeed it would be best if superstitious unicorn botherers of all ilks kept their distance from the great levers of state.

    Oh hello. You must be one of those liberals people keep referring to.
    Well in fairness, they did say 'it would be best if' rather than 'they must not be allowed', which is something - there are plenty of opinions many think should automatically disqualify a great many people, far more than is reasonable.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 8,731
    Beginnng to think Lidington is the most likely Remainers to become next leader.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,116

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Damian Hinds gets worse.

    1) He's a Papist

    2) He went to Oxford

    3) He read PPE

    Hello - what's wrong with your number (1)? Substitute some other religion, preferably using a vaguely derogatory term, if that helps.
    Some Catholics only have a loyalty to the Pope/Rome and not the UK.

    Cf - Jacob Rees-Mogg

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/02/04/tory-mp-rees-mogg-i-take-my-whip-from-the-roman-catholic-church/
    I appear to have been transported back to the seventeenth century.

    Catholics are not loyal to the UK - Okaaay. We'd better have the vote removed then. Maybe expulsion is in order.

    Honestly: if someone said that of Muslims you'd be - rightly - all over them. When some attack Jews for being part of some global Jewish conspiracy with no loyalty to the nation where they live you attack them for channelling classic anti-semitic tropes.

    But when one MP explains his views on religious issues you extrapolate that to Catholics - only some mind (though on what basis it's not clear). Perhaps Catholics should be forced to sign up to some form of loyalty test. I believe someone in UKIP suggested something similar a while back.

    Pfft.....
    It is a joke.

    Someone on here said they had qualms about a Muslim Mayor of London but had no qualms about JRM as PM.

    We've had some shameful anti-Catholic laws in this country, some only repealed quite recently
    A joke to you. But not others on this forum, sadly.

    Do me a favour though. Put one of those smiley wotsits on such posts. SeanF's "joke" about Priti Patel being Justice Secretary ruined my lunch.

    Thank you. :)
  • Mortimer said:

    Beginnng to think Lidington is the most likely Remainers to become next leader.

    I did tip him at 100/1 the weekend before last.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 293

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    She's rubbish at politics, okay at administration.
    And by administration you mean what, exactly? Because she appears to be utterly useless at developing and managing a team. Is she fantastically good at filing? Is that it?
    In terms of doing Brexit and economic management, she's okay. Not great, but okay.
    Again, you are suffering from delusions of mediocrity. She is bloody awful on the first point, and largely uninvolved on the latter one.
    You only say that because she is taking us out of Europe against your wishes, but in accordance with tbe result of a democratic vote
    No. I say that because she has proved utterly hopeless at finding a way forward that commands broad support across the country. Tin-eared, stubborn and unable to find compromise, three personal traits that should rule one out of leading a whelk stall, let alone a country.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 5,281
    Will the DUP not veto Papists being appointed to the cabinet?

    In fact, anyone who doesn't know all of the words to The Sash will probably be shown the door.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 10,735
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    We the British public.
    I didn't vote for this shower of shits.
    But you only have one vote like the rest of us
    I know. And given how I feel at the moment about what's on offer, I am likely to be joining the Meeks party: turning up to abstain - in disgust - in person.
    Shame really for someone who contributes so well to this forum
    Well, the election is some time away. I have never abstained so far. But what is on offer is so utterly awful it makes my eyes bleed.

    And my constituency is now a safe Labour seat. It has been a marginal until now. So my vote will make the square root of sod all difference.
    You should still use it you know
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,045
    edited January 8

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    We the British public.
    I didn't vote for this shower of shits.
    But you only have one vote like the rest of us
    I know. And given how I feel at the moment about what's on offer, I am likely to be joining the Meeks party: turning up to abstain - in disgust - in person.
    Are you going to be one of those who writes on the ballot paper next to each candidate

    'They are a [insert rude word]'

    Because I love counting those ballot papers.
    It passes the time. The good thing is writing does not automatically invalidate your vote of course. But the best was from someone who obviously wasn't willing to take that risk, so they had stuck a post-it note to the ballot paper, with at least 100 words written on it.
    My favourite was the ballot paper was the one with a penis drawn against one candidate.

    Candidate said it showed a clear preference for him.

    The returning officer said no, it would only be a clear preference if the drawn penis was erect.
    Hmm, sounds like a tough returning officer. The story on the same thing happening in Montgomeryshire, but the vote being accepted, doesn't mention to tumescence of the member in question.

    I've said before though I do disagree with the decision to accept one where the candidates name was crossed out and replaced with 'Anuerin Bevan'. That to me is ambiguous, in that they might be saying they would only vote for that party if the candidate were Bevan, which they were not.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 293
    Sean_F said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    She's rubbish at politics, okay at administration.
    And by administration you mean what, exactly? Because she appears to be utterly useless at developing and managing a team. Is she fantastically good at filing? Is that it?
    In terms of doing Brexit and economic management, she's okay. Not great, but okay.
    Again, you are suffering from delusions of mediocrity. She is bloody awful on the first point, and largely uninvolved on the latter one.
    Disagree. She probably falls in the top 10% of world leaders, meaning the bar is not set very high, but there it is.
    Your praise so faint it damns her.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Damian Hinds gets worse.

    1) He's a Papist

    2) He went to Oxford

    3) He read PPE

    Hello - what's wrong with your number (1)? Substitute some other religion, preferably using a vaguely derogatory term, if that helps.
    Some Catholics only have a loyalty to the Pope/Rome and not the UK.

    Cf - Jacob Rees-Mogg

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/02/04/tory-mp-rees-mogg-i-take-my-whip-from-the-roman-catholic-church/
    I appear to have been transported back to the seventeenth century.

    Catholics are not loyal to the UK - Okaaay. We'd better have the vote removed then. Maybe expulsion is in order.

    Honestly: if someone said that of Muslims you'd be - rightly - all over them. When some attack Jews for being part of some global Jewish conspiracy with no loyalty to the nation where they live you attack them for channelling classic anti-semitic tropes.

    But when one MP explains his views on religious issues you extrapolate that to Catholics - only some mind (though on what basis it's not clear). Perhaps Catholics should be forced to sign up to some form of loyalty test. I believe someone in UKIP suggested something similar a while back.

    Pfft.....
    It is a joke.

    Someone on here said they had qualms about a Muslim Mayor of London but had no qualms about JRM as PM.

    We've had some shameful anti-Catholic laws in this country, some only repealed quite recently
    A joke to you. But not others on this forum, sadly.

    Do me a favour though. Put one of those smiley wotsits on such posts. SeanF's "joke" about Priti Patel being Justice Secretary ruined my lunch.

    Thank you. :)
    Understood.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 981
    What do we want? Leadsom for leader!!... of the Commons.

    Oh, hang on, we don’t...
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 293
    MaxPB said:

    Greening is not someone I would have on the back benches, give it a few months and she'll be the 12th traitor.


    By 'traitor' I presume you mean representing her own principles and the views of her constituents? I have come to learn Leaverese in my short tenure on this forum.

    In any case I thought there was only 10 'traitors' so far?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,555
    Mortimer said:

    Beginnng to think Lidington is the most likely Remainers to become next leader.

    After Hunt's Greening gaffe and non promotion quite possible, though I still think it will be a Leaver
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,116

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    We the British public.
    I didn't vote for this shower of shits.
    But you only have one vote like the rest of us
    I know. And given how I feel at the moment about what's on offer, I am likely to be joining the Meeks party: turning up to abstain - in disgust - in person.
    Shame really for someone who contributes so well to this forum
    Well, the election is some time away. I have never abstained so far. But what is on offer is so utterly awful it makes my eyes bleed.

    And my constituency is now a safe Labour seat. It has been a marginal until now. So my vote will make the square root of sod all difference.
    You should still use it you know
    I know. But how then does one signal one's utter contempt for the dismal fare on offer? It's not as if the bastards come round canvassing and listen to your views. So how the hell do you get across that having the choice between two malevolent and incompetent ideologies and a party that gives the impression of a corpse is not any sort of choice in a mature democracy?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 10,735
    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    She's rubbish at politics, okay at administration.
    And by administration you mean what, exactly? Because she appears to be utterly useless at developing and managing a team. Is she fantastically good at filing? Is that it?
    In terms of doing Brexit and economic management, she's okay. Not great, but okay.
    Again, you are suffering from delusions of mediocrity. She is bloody awful on the first point, and largely uninvolved on the latter one.
    You only say that because she is taking us out of Europe against your wishes, but in accordance with tbe result of a democratic vote
    No. I say that because she has proved utterly hopeless at finding a way forward that commands broad support across the country. Tin-eared, stubborn and unable to find compromise, three personal traits that should rule one out of leading a whelk stall, let alone a country.
    But your broad support is to retain free movement and effectively stay tied to the EU. That will not happen
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,045
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    We the British public.
    I didn't vote for this shower of shits.
    But you only have one vote like the rest of us
    I know. And given how I feel at the moment about what's on offer, I am likely to be joining the Meeks party: turning up to abstain - in disgust - in person.
    Shame really for someone who contributes so well to this forum
    Well, the election is some time away. I have never abstained so far. But what is on offer is so utterly awful it makes my eyes bleed.

    And my constituency is now a safe Labour seat. It has been a marginal until now. So my vote will make the square root of sod all difference.
    You should still use it you know
    I know. But how then does one signal one's utter contempt for the dismal fare on offer? It's not as if the bastards come round canvassing and listen to your views. So how the hell do you get across that having the choice between two malevolent and incompetent ideologies and a party that gives the impression of a corpse is not any sort of choice in a mature democracy?
    It's the situation the LDs were born for, or so they would like to think.

    You can hope a non crazy independent runs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,555
    Anazina said:

    HYUFD

    Again, you can't infer that from the vote, the ballot paper said leave the EU, nothing more. And we have already had this conversation. Once again you are projecting your own contentions and presenting them as fact.

    This obsession with forcing restrictions on free movement on places that haven't asked for them is preventing sensible solutions from being found. Why not use regional visas in London as Canada does in some provinces? What is wrong with that idea exactly? Difficult times require imaginative thinking, not stubbornness.

    It genuinely is an obsession – this stopping the foreigners coming in – both of brexiteers and neobrexiteers like yourself who suffer from the zeal of the convert.

    80% voted for end free movement parties in June as Corbyn also backs ending it. Though much of the blame lies with Blair for failing to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 6,325
    This reshuffle has got to be one of the most pointless reshuffles ever. Long term, it’s likely caused more trouble for May, with Greening’s departure.

    And in a day where TMay promoted Badenoch and Cleverly (probably hoping to get good headlines from it as well) Sam Coates tweeted this lol:

  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 293
    So Greening has quit of her own accord and Brokenshire has left due to ill health (best wishes to him for a speedy recovery by the way). The shrill Esther McVey has landed the top job in the same department she cocked up last time.

    Dan Hodges is right – this day has rapidly progressed from minor Westminster Village blunder (Grayling, the Chairman That Never Was) to unmitigated shambles.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 15,953

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    She's rubbish at politics, okay at administration.
    And by administration you mean what, exactly? Because she appears to be utterly useless at developing and managing a team. Is she fantastically good at filing? Is that it?
    In terms of doing Brexit and economic management, she's okay. Not great, but okay.
    Again, you are suffering from delusions of mediocrity. She is bloody awful on the first point, and largely uninvolved on the latter one.
    You only say that because she is taking us out of Europe against your wishes, but in accordance with tbe result of a democratic vote
    No. I say that because she has proved utterly hopeless at finding a way forward that commands broad support across the country. Tin-eared, stubborn and unable to find compromise, three personal traits that should rule one out of leading a whelk stall, let alone a country.
    But your broad support is to retain free movement and effectively stay tied to the EU. That will not happen
    Given that a majority think that Brexit was the wrong decision, why do you say that? Any attempt to force through a hard Brexit will just galvanise and broaden support for abandoning the whole thing.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 10,735
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    We the British public.
    I didn't vote for this shower of shits.
    But you only have one vote like the rest of us
    I know. And given how I feel at the moment about what's on offer, I am likely to be joining the Meeks party: turning up to abstain - in disgust - in person.
    Shame really for someone who contributes so well to this forum
    Well, the election is some time away. I have never abstained so far. But what is on offer is so utterly awful it makes my eyes bleed.

    And my constituency is now a safe Labour seat. It has been a marginal until now. So my vote will make the square root of sod all difference.
    You should still use it you know
    I know. But how then does one signal one's utter contempt for the dismal fare on offer? It's not as if the bastards come round canvassing and listen to your views. So how the hell do you get across that having the choice between two malevolent and incompetent ideologies and a party that gives the impression of a corpse is not any sort of choice in a mature democracy?
    Who knows where we will be at the next GE but being perplexed at the current state of politics is very understandable
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,555
    OchEye said:

    HYUFD said:

    OchEye said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reports that Chuka Umanna has flounced out of a PLP meeting because Corbyn has reiterated Labour's policy of leaving the Single Market and Customs Union:

    18:55

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/jan/08/cabinet-reshuffle-theresa-may-tory-government-pm-to-start-shifting-ministers-politics-live

    The battle between Umunna and Corbyn's view of the Labour Party will dominate Labour for the next decade, Umunna clearly wants to be Macron to Corbyn's Hollande
    Except Umunna and Ian Murray still believe that they are Blair's successors, along with Kinnock and Smith, and that all they have to do is just wait until the membership sees the errors of their ways and return to the true New Labour path... Ain't gonna happen. Murray is a very good constituency MP, just a very lousy tactical Westminster one, but like Kinnock and Smith, if the new constituency alignments come in, then they will lose their seats, and with their records, they will have difficulty in getting new ones as the new CLP's will be able to decide who the candidates will be, and the new executive committees will not be made up from the friends of the previous MP's.
    Macron only got elected after Hollande faced heavy defeat, Hollande still narrowly beat Sarkozy first
    Umunna has, I understand few supporters in the PLP, certainly very few in the general membership, and unless he starts a new party, ala Macron, with similar aims and members to become MP's, councillors and officials, although the would be able to gain substantial financial support from the usual suspects, he will be wandering the halls, passages and cellars of Westminster, as the once and no longer, potential great leader who never was....
    A pre general election Labour leadership poll last year to succeed Corbyn had Umunna tied with Starmer for third behind McDonnell and Cooper. If a PM Corbyn faced a big poll deficit who knows what would happen
  • kle4 said:


    Hmm, sounds like a tough returning officer. The story on the same thing happening in Montgomeryshire, but the vote being accepted, doesn't mention to tumescence of the member in question.

    I've said before though I do disagree with the decision to accept one where the candidates name was crossed out and replaced with 'Anuerin Bevan'. That to me is ambiguous, in that they might be saying they would only vote for that party if the candidate were Bevan, which they were not.

    I think the winning candidate was so far ahead it really didn't matter.

    The votes I hate chucking away are the ones where the voters signs their name/puts their address on it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 15,953
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/01/theresa-mays-treatment-justine-greening-makes-no-sense-all

    It is increasingly hard not to suspect that Theresa May is a particularly well-placed Labour mole who has succeeded well beyond her handlers’ wildest dreams.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 293
    Cyclefree said:

    Anazina said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Damian Hinds gets worse.

    1) He's a Papist

    2) He went to Oxford

    3) He read PPE

    Hello - what's wrong with your number (1)? Substitute some other religion, preferably using a vaguely derogatory term, if that helps.
    He believes in Sky Fairy Magic and not science and evidence ... and we're making him responsible for Education?

    Feel free to switch that with some other religion if you wish.

    Indeed it would be best if superstitious unicorn botherers of all ilks kept their distance from the great levers of state.

    Oh hello. You must be one of those liberals people keep referring to.
    I am very liberal – I would not seek to block them. I just have a preference that superstitions are not bases for policy (see homeopathy). Equally, I don't care if religious people lead Education and Health as long as they don't allow their religious views to influence their policy making.
This discussion has been closed.