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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,634
    edited January 8

    I think Graham Brady's getting a letter soon.

    The odds of a 2018 General Election must be shorter after today.
    Despite his bluster the last thing Corbyn wants is to have to negotiate Brexit and either infuriate Labour Remain voters and members or working class Leave voters in Labour marginal seats and this campaign he would have to stick to a position
  • I think Graham Brady's getting a letter soon.

    The odds of a 2018 General Election must be shorter after today.
    Nah, as much as we might not like Brexit, we're democrats, so we respect the Brexit vote, and we don't want to do anything that will make Corbyn PM.

    I expect the chances of Mrs May going in 2018 have increased today.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 13,990

    Excellent news* that Esther McVey is back in a big job, even if it's not the exact big job I would have ideally chosen for her. Get your bets on now.

    * My betting position has of course no influence on my view on this point.

    Except she has been handed the ticking bomb that is UC. Which will explode before next GE as working families find their tax credits are being rolled into the scheme and cut.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,086
    dr_spyn said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Honestly, how could May have survived so long in politics and been so utterly rubbish at it?

    How?

    Perhaps by keeping her head down and looking busy? Personally, I suspect that she is more of a foot-soldier than a General. She simply does not seem to be up to the job of developing policy and strategy.

    Like Gordon Brown, she appears to be a living embodiment of the Peter Principle.
    Just an observation that Cameron, Osborne, Leadsom, Johnson, Grove all failed to keep her from no 10.
    They all failed to recognise her manoeuvres for the leadership, and more probably from knowing her record in the Home Office, didn't think anyone would actually vote for her....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,424

    I think Graham Brady's getting a letter soon.

    The odds of a 2018 General Election must be shorter after today.
    Nah, as much as we might not like Brexit, we're democrats, so we respect the Brexit vote, and we don't want to do anything that will make Corbyn PM.

    I expect the chances of Mrs May going in 2018 have increased today.
    Today was always going to be "meh". Tomorrow needs to be the shake up.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664
    Scott_P said:

    Anazina said:

    She always struck me as a potential star for Labour, telegenic, intelligent, moderate etc.

    Thus the reason she is not on Corbyn's front bench...
    :)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 13,990
    Mail online headline: "May's Reshuffle Wrecked".

    She really does have the reverse Midas touch doesn't she.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,230
    Cyclefree said:


    I take issue with people who do not follow the advice of experts in their field e.g. scientists. So if someone wanted to set up a school which sought to teach Genesis as science I would not permit that because Genesis is not science and children ought to be taught science by people who are expert in it. Religion, to me, is about morality - about how one treats other people ("do as you would be done by" etc). It is not a science and when dealing with scientific matters I would no more listen to a priest or imam or rabbi than I would listen to an economist if I had a lump in my breast.

    I have never felt a conflict between religion and science, partly because there are quite a lot of scientists and teachers in my own family and partly because the Catholic nuns in my primary school were so determined on teaching us as well as possible that I arrived at my secular secondary school a year ahead of the other girls in maths and science. Still, I realise that this is an anecdote and not scientific proof of anything, other than perhaps that my family was unusual and I was fortunate in my education.

    Similarly, I would not permit taxpayers' money spent on the NHS to be spent on homeopathy which is, again, bad science. I wonder whether all the people who use homeopathy or promote it are religious or atheists or whether this is irrelevant.

    But I think that expertise is valuable and not something to be shunned or sneered at. I wish we had more respect for people who value education and learning and expertise, whatever field that expertise is in.

    The argument for homeopathy on the NHS is cast iron, and goes as follows: most people who go to the NHS have nothing wrong with them that the placebo effect won't cure as effectively as an active drug. That being so it is preferable on grounds of cost and side effects to prescribe placebos. In these sad days of universal literacy you cannot get away with prescribing pillum sucrum or aqua colorata, which is how placebos used to work; homeopathic remedies manage the actually quite difficult feat of being nothing but chalk and water but claiming to be something else. There is an argument to be had as to whether the debauchment of science in the service of better and cheaper public health is justified, but it isn't knockdown either way.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,062
    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    This reshuffle has got to be one of the most pointless reshuffles ever. Long term, it’s likely caused more trouble for May, with Greening’s departure.

    And in a day where TMay promoted Badenoch and Cleverly (probably hoping to get good headlines from it as well) Sam Coates tweeted this lol:

    I think it IS the worst reshuffle ever isn't it? No-one has been reshuffled have they, surely that is the key criteria of a reshuffle? One SoC has quit of her own accord while another has left due to ill health. The fact that the government have been trailing it for weeks just makes the whole fiasco even more embarrassing.

    The worst reshuffle ever? Are you completely mad? Have you forgotten Blair's reshuffles?

    Well yes there is that, but the point is that this fails on the key technical criteria that no-one has actually been reshuffled. It is the Reshuffle That Never Was.

    Granted, some of Blair's more indulgent efforts were more damaging to the country.
    Actually it's a medium-sized reshuffle. Quite a lot of significant changes, most notably David Gauke's move to Justice, Ester McVey's big promotion to DWP, Damian Hinds to Education, Matt Hancock to Culture, David Lidington to Cabinet Office minister, Brandon Lewis to Party Chair, Karen Bradley to NI, departures of Patrick McLoughlin and Justine Greening (and sadly James Brokenshire, let's hope his operation goes well),
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 13,990

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    This reshuffle has got to be one of the most pointless reshuffles ever. Long term, it’s likely caused more trouble for May, with Greening’s departure.

    And in a day where TMay promoted Badenoch and Cleverly (probably hoping to get good headlines from it as well) Sam Coates tweeted this lol:

    I think it IS the worst reshuffle ever isn't it? No-one has been reshuffled have they, surely that is the key criteria of a reshuffle? One SoC has quit of her own accord while another has left due to ill health. The fact that the government have been trailing it for weeks just makes the whole fiasco even more embarrassing.

    The worst reshuffle ever? Are you completely mad? Have you forgotten Blair's reshuffles?

    Well yes there is that, but the point is that this fails on the key technical criteria that no-one has actually been reshuffled. It is the Reshuffle That Never Was.

    Granted, some of Blair's more indulgent efforts were more damaging to the country.
    Actually it's a medium-sized reshuffle. Quite a lot of significant changes, most notably David Gauke's move to Justice, Ester McVey's big promotion to DWP, Damian Hinds to Education, Matt Hancock to Culture, David Lidington to Cabinet Office minister, Brandon Lewis to Party Chair, Karen Bradley to NI, departures of Patrick McLoughlin and Justine Greening (and sadly James Brokenshire, let's hope his operation goes well),
    Ester McVey is very worrying. She will try and grandstand, rather than quietly sort out the mess, as Gauke appeared to be doing.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 5,769
    Homeopathic reshuffle. May's planned changed have been diluted to the point that there is no substance remaining.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,634

    Excellent news* that Esther McVey is back in a big job, even if it's not the exact big job I would have ideally chosen for her. Get your bets on now.

    * My betting position has of course no influence on my view on this point.

    Except she has been handed the ticking bomb that is UC. Which will explode before next GE as working families find their tax credits are being rolled into the scheme and cut.
    Or alternatively that if they get a part time job they do not lose all their benefits as a result
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,303

    Homeopathic reshuffle. May's planned changed have been diluted to the point that there is no substance remaining.


    :smiley:
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,542
    HYUFD said:

    I think Graham Brady's getting a letter soon.

    She was offered DWP but turned it down. With Brexit talks ongoing I expect May will stay with a Davis coronation by Tory MPs the most likely alternative if there is a successful no confidence vote pre March 2019
    I would have thought that Education to DWP could be perceived as a promotion. It is the largest department in terms of spending.

    She had every right to turn it down - but it was surely an offer worthy of consideration - even with the UC issue (which she could have worked to improve)
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,086

    I think Graham Brady's getting a letter soon.

    Expanded briefs? The reshuffle wasn't that exciting.
    Oooo! I wonder who she was talking about? Don't think we'll have to hunt very hard....
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,062
    Scott_P said:
    DD is quite right. We are still members of the EU. The Commission should not do anything to discriminate against us.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:


    I take issue with people who do not follow the advice of experts in their field e.g. scientists. So if someone wanted to set up a school which sought to teach Genesis as science I would not permit that because Genesis is not science and children ought to be taught science by people who are expert in it. Religion, to me, is about morality - about how one treats other people ("do as you would be done by" etc). It is not a science and when dealing with scientific matters I would no more listen to a priest or imam or rabbi than I would listen to an economist if I had a lump in my breast.

    I have never felt a conflict between religion and science, partly because there are quite a lot of scientists and teachers in my own family and partly because the Catholic nuns in my primary school were so determined on teaching us as well as possible that I arrived at my secular secondary school a year ahead of the other girls in maths and science. Still, I realise that this is an anecdote and not scientific proof of anything, other than perhaps that my family was unusual and I was fortunate in my education.

    Similarly, I would not permit taxpayers' money spent on the NHS to be spent on homeopathy which is, again, bad science. I wonder whether all the people who use homeopathy or promote it are religious or atheists or whether this is irrelevant.

    But I think that expertise is valuable and not something to be shunned or sneered at. I wish we had more respect for people who value education and learning and expertise, whatever field that expertise is in.

    The argument for homeopathy on the NHS is cast iron, and goes as follows: most people who go to the NHS have nothing wrong with them that the placebo effect won't cure as effectively as an active drug. That being so it is preferable on grounds of cost and side effects to prescribe placebos. In these sad days of universal literacy you cannot get away with prescribing pillum sucrum or aqua colorata, which is how placebos used to work; homeopathic remedies manage the actually quite difficult feat of being nothing but chalk and water but claiming to be something else. There is an argument to be had as to whether the debauchment of science in the service of better and cheaper public health is justified, but it isn't knockdown either way.
    So why not just employ a load of JobCentrePlus clients to pour tap water into a fancy bottles and hand that out to patients? Better than spending millions on fees for sham practitioners to do it for you. All homeopathy is is water. That is literally it. Water.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,500
    Not that I'm one for quota watching, but this is interesting - women up to 45% of cabinet:



    I imagine this would have been one of May's objectives.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,062

    Excellent news* that Esther McVey is back in a big job, even if it's not the exact big job I would have ideally chosen for her. Get your bets on now.

    * My betting position has of course no influence on my view on this point.

    Except she has been handed the ticking bomb that is UC. Which will explode before next GE as working families find their tax credits are being rolled into the scheme and cut.
    Maybe, but invisibility is worse.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    This reshuffle has got to be one of the most pointless reshuffles ever. Long term, it’s likely caused more trouble for May, with Greening’s departure.

    And in a day where TMay promoted Badenoch and Cleverly (probably hoping to get good headlines from it as well) Sam Coates tweeted this lol:

    I think it IS the worst reshuffle ever isn't it? No-one has been reshuffled have they, surely that is the key criteria of a reshuffle? One SoC has quit of her own accord while another has left due to ill health. The fact that the government have been trailing it for weeks just makes the whole fiasco even more embarrassing.

    The worst reshuffle ever? Are you completely mad? Have you forgotten Blair's reshuffles?

    Well yes there is that, but the point is that this fails on the key technical criteria that no-one has actually been reshuffled. It is the Reshuffle That Never Was.

    Granted, some of Blair's more indulgent efforts were more damaging to the country.
    Actually it's a medium-sized reshuffle. Quite a lot of significant changes, most notably David Gauke's move to Justice, Ester McVey's big promotion to DWP, Damian Hinds to Education, Matt Hancock to Culture, David Lidington to Cabinet Office minister, Brandon Lewis to Party Chair, Karen Bradley to NI, departures of Patrick McLoughlin and Justine Greening (and sadly James Brokenshire, let's hope his operation goes well),
    Ester McVey is very worrying. She will try and grandstand, rather than quietly sort out the mess, as Gauke appeared to be doing.
    She is too shrill for that role – has already come a cropper in the very same department.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,270

    DD is quite right. We are still members of the EU. The Commission should not do anything to discriminate against us.

  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,086
    Foxy said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    This reshuffle has got to be one of the most pointless reshuffles ever. Long term, it’s likely caused more trouble for May, with Greening’s departure.

    And in a day where TMay promoted Badenoch and Cleverly (probably hoping to get good headlines from it as well) Sam Coates tweeted this lol:

    I think it IS the worst reshuffle ever isn't it? No-one has been reshuffled have they, surely that is the key criteria of a reshuffle? One SoC has quit of her own accord while another has left due to ill health. The fact that the government have been trailing it for weeks just makes the whole fiasco even more embarrassing.

    Predictable but time will tell - the only criticism I would have is the sacking of Greening but including Social care in health and Housing in the DCLG are very good moves that will bear fruit
    In all fairness you are such a loyalist that May could have promoted Mr Blobby to Pensions Secretary and you would have spun it as a triumph for diversity.
    I find Big_G's unshakable loyalty to TMay rather endearing tbh. Misguided of course, but endearing nonetheless.
    Until he is loyal to the next leader. PB Tories are more like Marxists than they like :)
    More like the Vicar of Bray?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,784
    Has this Radiohead news been covered?

    http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-42602900
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,270

    Not that I'm one for quota watching, but this is interesting - women up to 45% of cabinet:

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 10,714
    Is Tess still shuffling? Or is it finished now?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,634

    HYUFD said:

    I think Graham Brady's getting a letter soon.

    She was offered DWP but turned it down. With Brexit talks ongoing I expect May will stay with a Davis coronation by Tory MPs the most likely alternative if there is a successful no confidence vote pre March 2019
    I would have thought that Education to DWP could be perceived as a promotion. It is the largest department in terms of spending.

    She had every right to turn it down - but it was surely an offer worthy of consideration - even with the UC issue (which she could have worked to improve)
    Yes, there was plenty to get stuck into
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,062
    Scott_P said:

    DD is quite right. We are still members of the EU. The Commission should not do anything to discriminate against us.

    Ah, that's a different point.

    Surely no-one is naive enough to think that this is a legal skirmish rather than a political one?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,062
    Scott_P said:
    Translation: 'I didn't get the promotion I expected'.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,617
    Scott_P said:
    It found a role for her at DWP, she refused it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,784

    Scott_P said:
    DD is quite right. We are still members of the EU. The Commission should not do anything to discriminate against us.
    Taken to the extreme that argument would mean they should refuse to accept our Article 50 notification because it would harm us.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 679
    GIN1138 said:

    Is Tess still shuffling? Or is it finished now?

    Aren't we still waiting for the Minister for Hard Brexit we were promised over the weekend?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,062
    edited January 8
    rpjs said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Is Tess still shuffling? Or is it finished now?

    Aren't we still waiting for the Minister for Hard Brexit we were promised over the weekend?
    Perhaps the Post-It note fell off the desk so it got missed out, as happened with one of Blair's reshuffles.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 12,784
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 10,714
    Who replaced Justine at education?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 5,769
    Scott_P said:
    I thought they would have ditched Toby quietly while attention was on the reshuffle.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,542
    rpjs said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Is Tess still shuffling? Or is it finished now?

    Aren't we still waiting for the Minister for Hard Brexit we were promised over the weekend?
    That was never going to be a cabinet-attending role - more likely to emerge tomorrow
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 12,784
    Scott_P said:
    Couldn't that go to someone tomorrow? It doesn't have to be held by someone in cabinet does it?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,230
    Anazina said:


    So why not just employ a load of JobCentrePlus clients to pour tap water into a fancy bottles and hand that out to patients? Better than spending millions on fees for sham practitioners to do it for you. All homeopathy is is water. That is literally it. Water.

    It takes an impressively low IQ not to be able to deduce from my post to which you are replying that I am already aware that "All homeopathy is is water". Your coloured water suggestion is also dealt with in the same post, but I will try again. The placebo effect is drastically weakened if the patient realises that the placebo is a placebo. It is impossible these days to hand out coloured water claiming it is something else because it's unethical, and because people will read the label and look it up on the internet. There is no solution to this problem that I can think of, other than homeopathy.

    Does that help?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,270

    Couldn't that go to someone tomorrow? It doesn't have to be held by someone in cabinet does it?

    That's the point. It was a cabinet role, and now it might not be. That doesn't sound like Promoting women and equalities...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,617

    Scott_P said:
    Couldn't that go to someone tomorrow? It doesn't have to be held by someone in cabinet does it?
    And even if it doesn't, does that mean suddenly women and all equalities issues are to be disregarded?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 679
    edited January 8

    rpjs said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Is Tess still shuffling? Or is it finished now?

    Aren't we still waiting for the Minister for Hard Brexit we were promised over the weekend?
    That was never going to be a cabinet-attending role - more likely to emerge tomorrow
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/07/theresa-may-set-appoint-cabinet-minister-no-deal-reshuffle/ - Theresa May to appoint a 'Cabinet minister for no deal Brexit' in reshuffle
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,062

    Scott_P said:
    I thought they would have ditched Toby quietly while attention was on the reshuffle.
    Presumably they are waiting to get maximum impact from his promotion to Women & Equalities Minister.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,448
    Scott_P said:
    Virtue signalling dullards like Mr Reynolds should be mocked at every turn - what a wobbling little ponce.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,270
    TGOHF said:

    Virtue signalling dullards like Mr Reynolds should be mocked at every turn - what a wobbling little ponce.

    He's right, though
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 679

    rpjs said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Is Tess still shuffling? Or is it finished now?

    Aren't we still waiting for the Minister for Hard Brexit we were promised over the weekend?
    Perhaps the Post-It note fell off the desk so it got missed out, as happened with one of Blair's reshuffles.
    Funny to think we used to run a quarter of the planet, isn't it?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,230

    Scott_P said:
    Translation: 'I didn't get the promotion I expected'.
    This level of ineptitude doesn't arise more than once in a political generation. This has Hill and Timothy's fingerprints all over it. I bet she is still in touch with them.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,617
    edited January 8
    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Is Tess still shuffling? Or is it finished now?

    Aren't we still waiting for the Minister for Hard Brexit we were promised over the weekend?
    That was never going to be a cabinet-attending role - more likely to emerge tomorrow
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/07/theresa-may-set-appoint-cabinet-minister-no-deal-reshuffle/ - Theresa May to appoint a 'Cabinet minister for no deal Brexit' in reshuffle
    Just sounds like poor reporting, since while the url and headline say 'Cabinet Minister' the second paragraph talks about said minister being based in Davis's department, which is to say not a Cabinet Minister at all, just a minister. Granted it does say cabinet attending, but I can quite believe some journalist just got over excited at the proposed significance and oversold what they had been told. But we shall see tomorrow, perhaps there will be another cabinet attendee.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,617
    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Is Tess still shuffling? Or is it finished now?

    Aren't we still waiting for the Minister for Hard Brexit we were promised over the weekend?
    Perhaps the Post-It note fell off the desk so it got missed out, as happened with one of Blair's reshuffles.
    Funny to think we used to run a quarter of the planet, isn't it?
    The world was in some ways a simpler place, in terms of what nations were willing to do. Is it funny that Mongolia used to run about a fifth of the planet, or whatever it was, but do not now?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,062
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:
    Translation: 'I didn't get the promotion I expected'.
    This level of ineptitude doesn't arise more than once in a political generation. This has Hill and Timothy's fingerprints all over it. I bet she is still in touch with them.
    It really isn't inept. It's about average for a medium-sized reshuffle, especially when you make allowances for the PM's weak initial position.

    Of course the press like to scream 'shambles' at everything. But this is not particularly a shambles.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,448
    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Virtue signalling dullards like Mr Reynolds should be mocked at every turn - what a wobbling little ponce.

    He's right, though
    He should invented an irrelevantly straw man - nobody outside your closet cares.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 1,749
    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Is Tess still shuffling? Or is it finished now?

    Aren't we still waiting for the Minister for Hard Brexit we were promised over the weekend?
    Perhaps the Post-It note fell off the desk so it got missed out, as happened with one of Blair's reshuffles.
    Funny to think we used to run a quarter of the planet, isn't it?
    Though we made a good few blunders then too!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 5,769
    Is #JeSuisJustine trending yet?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,542

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:
    Translation: 'I didn't get the promotion I expected'.
    This level of ineptitude doesn't arise more than once in a political generation. This has Hill and Timothy's fingerprints all over it. I bet she is still in touch with them.
    It really isn't inept. It's about average for a medium-sized reshuffle, especially when you make allowances for the PM's weak initial position.

    Of course the press like to scream 'shambles' at everything. But this is not particularly a shambles.
    The focus of the 'shambles' claim seems to be Greening's decision to walk rather than take a promotion to the biggest spending department in Cabinet. Given the weekend briefing was that she was going to be sacked, she was clearly feeling vulnerable. And we don't know her reasons for not wanting the DWP. But it doesn't feel as shambolic as the media are trying to paint it. But, of course, when did reality matter in the face of a 'story'?
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Anazina said:


    So why not just employ a load of JobCentrePlus clients to pour tap water into a fancy bottles and hand that out to patients? Better than spending millions on fees for sham practitioners to do it for you. All homeopathy is is water. That is literally it. Water.

    It takes an impressively low IQ not to be able to deduce from my post to which you are replying that I am already aware that "All homeopathy is is water". Your coloured water suggestion is also dealt with in the same post, but I will try again. The placebo effect is drastically weakened if the patient realises that the placebo is a placebo. It is impossible these days to hand out coloured water claiming it is something else because it's unethical, and because people will read the label and look it up on the internet. There is no solution to this problem that I can think of, other than homeopathy.

    Does that help?
    Yes, that was my point. Just lie. By your thinking just a massive, brazen, state-sponsored lie would work just as well. So lie. It's no more unethical than 'real' homeopathy, which is exactly the same thing, a lie on a grand scale. Indeed 'real' homeopathy is more unethical as it costs taxpayers at least one order of magnitude more than 'sham' homeopathy, which is in fact precisely the same as 'real' homeopathy – just pure water.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,062
    By far the worst aspect of the reshuffle - which the excitable media, obsessed with trivia, haven't noticed - is that both David Gauke and Damian Hinds have been taken out of DWP. That is the two ministers who were most heavily involved with the Universal Credit roll-out. I don't think Esther McVey, for all her many talents, is the right person to pick up the detail and drive it forward.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,617

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:
    Translation: 'I didn't get the promotion I expected'.
    This level of ineptitude doesn't arise more than once in a political generation. This has Hill and Timothy's fingerprints all over it. I bet she is still in touch with them.
    It really isn't inept. It's about average for a medium-sized reshuffle, especially when you make allowances for the PM's weak initial position.

    Of course the press like to scream 'shambles' at everything. But this is not particularly a shambles.
    I'd still lean more toward the 'boring' analysis than 'shambles'.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,693
    Why did Greening need to be moved anyway? Why did any of them?

    About the only change which made sense was moving Social Care to Health. But the rest? What was the point?
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 387

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:
    Translation: 'I didn't get the promotion I expected'.
    This level of ineptitude doesn't arise more than once in a political generation. This has Hill and Timothy's fingerprints all over it. I bet she is still in touch with them.
    It really isn't inept. It's about average for a medium-sized reshuffle, especially when you make allowances for the PM's weak initial position.

    Of course the press like to scream 'shambles' at everything. But this is not particularly a shambles.
    The focus of the 'shambles' claim seems to be Greening's decision to walk rather than take a promotion to the biggest spending department in Cabinet.
    “Promotion” in quotes. I chose not to go for the milkround at university as working for PWC et al would have bored me stupid and wasted the chance to do something I believe in, though it would have paid probably seven, eight times more by now.

    Maybe Greening is the same. Maybe she genuinely cared about schools and didn’t want to be moved. Don’t knock it. Passion and commitment is a rare thing and May’s government could do with more of it, not less.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 387

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:
    Translation: 'I didn't get the promotion I expected'.
    This level of ineptitude doesn't arise more than once in a political generation. This has Hill and Timothy's fingerprints all over it. I bet she is still in touch with them.
    It really isn't inept. It's about average for a medium-sized reshuffle, especially when you make allowances for the PM's weak initial position.

    Of course the press like to scream 'shambles' at everything. But this is not particularly a shambles.
    Objectively you’re 100% right. But this is the age of Twitter and instant judgements. The press might be over-excitable and focus on minutiae, but they’re the press that your voters read (online or in print) and so you have to deal with them, no matter how trivial their preoccupations.

    In Campbell and Mandelson, Blair had advisers who truly understood the narrative of the time and how it was communicated. May needs the same and no, Nick Timothy is not it.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 387
    This is very good: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/01/theresa-mays-treatment-justine-greening-makes-no-sense-all
    It is increasingly hard not to suspect that Theresa May is a particularly well-placed Labour mole who has succeeded well beyond her handlers’ wildest dreams.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,213
    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Virtue signalling dullards like Mr Reynolds should be mocked at every turn - what a wobbling little ponce.
    That's an insult I've not heard for decades. Are you 85 or something?
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