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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Farage’s surprise backing could put a second Brexit referendum

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 26,029
    edited January 11

    EU to hold Britain to fishing quotas during Brexit transition

    Exclusive: EU’s plan means UK would essentially be leaving common fisheries policy in name only after Brexit

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/11/eu-to-hold-britain-to-fishing-quotas-during-brexit-transition?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Guardian super spin alert....Gove says AFTER Brexit....Diplomat says during transition....Isn't the whole point of a 2 year transition not exactly as suggested will happen...
    So in your book Brexit doesn't happen on March 29th 2019 but when the transition ends?
    We won't be properly out until after the transitional period ends.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 5,480
    brendan16 said:

    Genius.

    Poor Tim Farron, being a Liberal Democrat opposed to gay sex is a bit like being a Savage Garden fan turning up to a Sound Garden gig by mistake.
    Seems the Lib Dems would rather have a liar as leader than a supposed 'homophobe' who doesn't oppose gay marriage or gay rights, or wants to jail gay people but has some moral issues with homosexuality because of his religion.

    What exactly is the purpose of the word Liberal in the Lib Dems - I know they have dropped the pretence on democracy re Brexit but Farron is surely bring a true liberal. Doesn't agree with it personally but happy to allow others to do what they want with their lives unhindered.

    Unhindered? Isn't the implication that he he wants them to go to hell?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 26,029
    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Williamson heading for the exit?

    Nothing to do with his Council Tax proposals?

    He's Shadow Minister for Fire and Emergency Services - I doubt having a view on Council tax, which, although not Labour's position, is far from heretical would be grounds for resignation
    Fire services are funded by council tax - so if you want more fire services presumably you need to pay for them somehow. Problem is his proposals would hit momentum central too hard - inner London, Brighton, Oxford and Cambridge renters!
    Their next proposal will be that landlords should pay council tax. As if they think that won’t make any difference.

    But it will allow them to attack landlords more for ever increasing rents.
    In Bristol, the Maomentumers are proposing things along those lines e.g. University should pay council tax for each student in uni accommodation.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 1,935

    I feel a bit sorry for Nigel Farage. The Tory Right were happy to defect to his party when that was a way of causing no end of trouble for Dave; but now that he's outlived his usefulness to them they're being beastly to him and calling him the most frightful names. What a cynical and ungrateful bunch!

    +1
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,094

    I feel a bit sorry for Nigel Farage. The Tory Right were happy to defect to his party when that was a way of causing no end of trouble for Dave; but now that he's outlived his usefulness to them they're being beastly to him and calling him the most frightful names. What a cynical and ungrateful bunch!

    Some of us have been calling Farage the most frightul names for a very, very long time. The idea of him gloating at a Brexit vote was one of the biggest constraints to voting for it.

    The man is [self-censored].
  • EU to hold Britain to fishing quotas during Brexit transition

    Exclusive: EU’s plan means UK would essentially be leaving common fisheries policy in name only after Brexit

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/11/eu-to-hold-britain-to-fishing-quotas-during-brexit-transition?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Guardian super spin alert....Gove says AFTER Brexit....Diplomat says during transition....Isn't the whole point of a 2 year transition not exactly as suggested will happen...
    So in your book Brexit doesn't happen on March 29th 2019 but when the transition ends?
    It is quite simple - Brexit happens on the 29th March 2019 and the transition commences on the 30th March 2019 for two years to allow business to adjust
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 26,029
    edited January 11
    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.
  • Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Williamson heading for the exit?

    Nothing to do with his Council Tax proposals?

    He's Shadow Minister for Fire and Emergency Services - I doubt having a view on Council tax, which, although not Labour's position, is far from heretical would be grounds for resignation
    Fire services are funded by council tax - so if you want more fire services presumably you need to pay for them somehow. Problem is his proposals would hit momentum central too hard - inner London, Brighton, Oxford and Cambridge renters!
    Their next proposal will be that landlords should pay council tax. As if they think that won’t make any difference.

    But it will allow them to attack landlords more for ever increasing rents.
    In Bristol, the Maomentumers are proposing things along those lines e.g. University should pay council tax for each student in uni accommodation.
    And add it to their fees
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 26,029
    edited January 11

    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Williamson heading for the exit?

    Nothing to do with his Council Tax proposals?

    He's Shadow Minister for Fire and Emergency Services - I doubt having a view on Council tax, which, although not Labour's position, is far from heretical would be grounds for resignation
    Fire services are funded by council tax - so if you want more fire services presumably you need to pay for them somehow. Problem is his proposals would hit momentum central too hard - inner London, Brighton, Oxford and Cambridge renters!
    Their next proposal will be that landlords should pay council tax. As if they think that won’t make any difference.

    But it will allow them to attack landlords more for ever increasing rents.
    In Bristol, the Maomentumers are proposing things along those lines e.g. University should pay council tax for each student in uni accommodation.
    And add it to their fees
    Well of course they will...but sssssshhhhh....

    Actually one of the big unspoken things regards uni costs and student debt, student accomodation, it is absolutely eye watering (both uni owned and the likes of UNITE). For the cost of many tiny student rooms (often £150 a week) you could pay the mortgage on a whole flat.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 16,097

    Oh dear, Katie Hopkins now facing a huge costs bill

    That's not news, is it?

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/katie-hopkins-to-appeal/5060323.article

    It's still amusing though.
    This has potential to be one of those amusing cases where both sides of a libel lawsuit end up bankrupted by their own legal bills. Probably the first over a Twitter spat though. Maybe a mediator hired for half a day at £100 an hour might have been a more sensible course of action?
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 4,541

    RobD said:

    Mr. Eagles, he's the Shadow Minister for Schrodinger's Cat.

    I'd say he's Shadow Minister for Heisenberg's Particle/Principle.
    There’s a joke about momentum in there somewhere....
    There's a joke about absolute zero and momentum too but I can't quite pin it down.
    There is a theory you can achieve perpetual motion at absolute zero.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 4,521

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 16,698

    EU to hold Britain to fishing quotas during Brexit transition

    Exclusive: EU’s plan means UK would essentially be leaving common fisheries policy in name only after Brexit

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/11/eu-to-hold-britain-to-fishing-quotas-during-brexit-transition?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Guardian super spin alert....Gove says AFTER Brexit....Diplomat says during transition....Isn't the whole point of a 2 year transition not exactly as suggested will happen...
    So in your book Brexit doesn't happen on March 29th 2019 but when the transition ends?
    We won't be properly out until after the transitional period ends.
    What if we transition to something that isn’t ‘properly out’? Is that still not Brexit?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 16,097
    brendan16 said:

    Genius.

    Poor Tim Farron, being a Liberal Democrat opposed to gay sex is a bit like being a Savage Garden fan turning up to a Sound Garden gig by mistake.
    Seems the Lib Dems would rather have a liar as leader than a supposed 'homophobe' who doesn't oppose gay marriage or gay rights, or wants to jail gay people but has some moral issues with homosexuality because of his religion.

    What exactly is the purpose of the word Liberal in the Lib Dems - I know they have dropped the pretence on democracy re Brexit but Farron is surely bring a true liberal. Doesn't agree with it personally but happy to allow others to do what they want with their lives unhindered.

    Quite. Do the Liberal party want to make it impossible to support them and be Christian?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 26,029
    edited January 11
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 1,813

    dr_spyn said:

    Hopkins Internal Inquiry, looks like one MP isn't gruntled any longer.

    That had me confused for a moment - a different Hopkins!
    I am confused here too.

    Is this the "four slightly flirty notes over two decades" one? So Kerry M did make a complaint to the party.

    I am not clear about a committee of any party sitting as "quasi-judicial", either.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 4,521

    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Williamson heading for the exit?

    Nothing to do with his Council Tax proposals?

    He's Shadow Minister for Fire and Emergency Services - I doubt having a view on Council tax, which, although not Labour's position, is far from heretical would be grounds for resignation
    Fire services are funded by council tax - so if you want more fire services presumably you need to pay for them somehow. Problem is his proposals would hit momentum central too hard - inner London, Brighton, Oxford and Cambridge renters!
    Their next proposal will be that landlords should pay council tax. As if they think that won’t make any difference.

    But it will allow them to attack landlords more for ever increasing rents.
    In Bristol, the Maomentumers are proposing things along those lines e.g. University should pay council tax for each student in uni accommodation.
    And add it to their fees
    Well of course they will...but sssssshhhhh....

    Actually one of the big unspoken things regards uni costs and student debt, student accomodation, it is absolutely eye watering (both uni owned and the likes of UNITE). For the cost of many tiny student rooms (often £150 a week) you could pay the mortgage on a whole flat.
    There are investment trusts invested in the buildings offering staggering yields.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 16,097

    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Williamson heading for the exit?

    Nothing to do with his Council Tax proposals?

    He's Shadow Minister for Fire and Emergency Services - I doubt having a view on Council tax, which, although not Labour's position, is far from heretical would be grounds for resignation
    Fire services are funded by council tax - so if you want more fire services presumably you need to pay for them somehow. Problem is his proposals would hit momentum central too hard - inner London, Brighton, Oxford and Cambridge renters!
    Their next proposal will be that landlords should pay council tax. As if they think that won’t make any difference.

    But it will allow them to attack landlords more for ever increasing rents.
    In Bristol, the Maomentumers are proposing things along those lines e.g. University should pay council tax for each student in uni accommodation.
    But a house full of students currently pays no council tax at all, are they proposing to change that? A Hall of Residence isn’t a profit centre for a university, they’ll just pass on any mandated increase in costs to their students - and make the university comparatively unpopular with those for whom costs of living are important. Only rich kids can afford to study at Bristol.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    Small retailers can suck it up
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 5,480
    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    Genius.

    Poor Tim Farron, being a Liberal Democrat opposed to gay sex is a bit like being a Savage Garden fan turning up to a Sound Garden gig by mistake.
    Seems the Lib Dems would rather have a liar as leader than a supposed 'homophobe' who doesn't oppose gay marriage or gay rights, or wants to jail gay people but has some moral issues with homosexuality because of his religion.

    What exactly is the purpose of the word Liberal in the Lib Dems - I know they have dropped the pretence on democracy re Brexit but Farron is surely bring a true liberal. Doesn't agree with it personally but happy to allow others to do what they want with their lives unhindered.

    Quite. Do the Liberal party want to make it impossible to support them and be Christian?
    All political parties should ask theists to leave their beliefs at the door.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 26,029
    edited January 11
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Williamson heading for the exit?

    Nothing to do with his Council Tax proposals?

    He's Shadow Minister for Fire and Emergency Services - I doubt having a view on Council tax, which, although not Labour's position, is far from heretical would be grounds for resignation
    Fire services are funded by council tax - so if you want more fire services presumably you need to pay for them somehow. Problem is his proposals would hit momentum central too hard - inner London, Brighton, Oxford and Cambridge renters!
    Their next proposal will be that landlords should pay council tax. As if they think that won’t make any difference.

    But it will allow them to attack landlords more for ever increasing rents.
    In Bristol, the Maomentumers are proposing things along those lines e.g. University should pay council tax for each student in uni accommodation.
    But a house full of students currently pays no council tax at all, are they proposing to change that? A Hall of Residence isn’t a profit centre for a university, they’ll just pass on any mandated increase in costs to their students - and make the university comparatively unpopular with those for whom costs of living are important. Only rich kids can afford to study at Bristol.
    Don't confuse the Maomentumers with complex stuff like free market economics...anyway their great wannabe chancellor is going to change the whole broken capitalist system to something better anyway.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 4,521

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    Small retailers can suck it up
    Liberally and tolerantly put, congratulations!

    They are however voters, and have customers who are also voters.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,188

    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    Genius.

    Poor Tim Farron, being a Liberal Democrat opposed to gay sex is a bit like being a Savage Garden fan turning up to a Sound Garden gig by mistake.
    Seems the Lib Dems would rather have a liar as leader than a supposed 'homophobe' who doesn't oppose gay marriage or gay rights, or wants to jail gay people but has some moral issues with homosexuality because of his religion.

    What exactly is the purpose of the word Liberal in the Lib Dems - I know they have dropped the pretence on democracy re Brexit but Farron is surely bring a true liberal. Doesn't agree with it personally but happy to allow others to do what they want with their lives unhindered.

    Quite. Do the Liberal party want to make it impossible to support them and be Christian?
    All political parties should ask theists to leave their beliefs at the door.

    All political parties should ask socialists to leave their beliefs at the door.

  • BromBrom Posts: 925
    murali_s said:

    I feel a bit sorry for Nigel Farage. The Tory Right were happy to defect to his party when that was a way of causing no end of trouble for Dave; but now that he's outlived his usefulness to them they're being beastly to him and calling him the most frightful names. What a cynical and ungrateful bunch!

    +1
    I doubt Nigel has any concern what people think about him and that's partly why he's been so successful. The guy had the last laugh against the Europhiles and his place in history is assured, I do agree though that he is struggling for a purpose somewhat since Britain decided to leave.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 2,706
    edited January 11

    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    Genius.

    Poor Tim Farron, being a Liberal Democrat opposed to gay sex is a bit like being a Savage Garden fan turning up to a Sound Garden gig by mistake.
    Seems the Lib Dems would rather have a liar as leader than a supposed 'homophobe' who doesn't oppose gay marriage or gay rights, or wants to jail gay people but has some moral issues with homosexuality because of his religion.

    What exactly is the purpose of the word Liberal in the Lib Dems - I know they have dropped the pretence on democracy re Brexit but Farron is surely bring a true liberal. Doesn't agree with it personally but happy to allow others to do what they want with their lives unhindered.

    Quite. Do the Liberal party want to make it impossible to support them and be Christian?
    All political parties should ask theists to leave their beliefs at the door.

    All political parties should ask socialists to leave their beliefs at the door.

    So you would scrap the NHS then ? Socialist Marxist.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 5,884
    edited January 11

    EU to hold Britain to fishing quotas during Brexit transition

    Exclusive: EU’s plan means UK would essentially be leaving common fisheries policy in name only after Brexit

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/11/eu-to-hold-britain-to-fishing-quotas-during-brexit-transition?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    According to Michael Gove's DEFRA, the EU Common Fisheries Policy has been a stunning success:

    One such intervention is ‘achieving Maximum Sustainable Yield’ (MSY). To bring overfishing under control, from 2006 EU fisheries management began to adopt the concept of setting quotas to prevent further depletion of fish stocks. This was further strengthened in 2011, and MSY, with its aim of restoring stock populations and maintaining them at sustainable levels, was adopted as a central objective in 2013. MSY represents a reference point or range based on scientific advice that indicates the level at which a species can be fished without harming the stock in the long term. While this might mean in practice that fishermen cannot fish as much in the short-term, it allows fish stocks to rebuild over time and ensures that the resource is available to us for much longer.

    Hake stocks in the North-East Atlantic are an example of how stocks can be rebuilt, and illustrate the potential effect of MSY on stock sizes. Between 1985 and 2004, these stocks were in continual decline owing to overfishing. At the lowest point in 2003, 2,500 tonnes were landed in the UK, at a value of £6m at current prices. From 2006, the EU moved towards setting Total Allowable Catches (the amounts fishermen are allowed to catch) in line with MSY. As a result, stocks are now around five times larger, allowing the UK to land 14,000 tonnes of Hake valued at £35m.


    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/673203/25-year-environment-plan.pdf#page=109
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
    They are being considered along with the impact of tax changes on single use coffee cups, takeaway boxes, straws etc
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 11,550
    edited January 11
    Has anyone thought that Farage suggestion for a second referendum is clever politics as it is more than likely to iritate many ordinary voters and turn public opinion against any prospect of a second referendum thereby dealing a blow to remainers great hope of changing the result
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 16,984

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
    Pain in the neck for supermarkets - they have to do the work.

    With reducing plastics they simply beat their suppliers over the head to find a solution.

  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 615

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
    Many states in the US has bottle and can deposits, but few people bother to return them. I have no clue how to but put the bottles and cans out for recycling, and usually there's somebody comes by before the sanitation truck and grabs all the items that have deposits on them. Hopefully they can make a living out of it.
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 503
    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Williamson heading for the exit?

    Nothing to do with his Council Tax proposals?

    He's Shadow Minister for Fire and Emergency Services - I doubt having a view on Council tax, which, although not Labour's position, is far from heretical would be grounds for resignation
    Fire services are funded by council tax - so if you want more fire services presumably you need to pay for them somehow. Problem is his proposals would hit momentum central too hard - inner London, Brighton, Oxford and Cambridge renters!
    Their next proposal will be that landlords should pay council tax. As if they think that won’t make any difference.

    But it will allow them to attack landlords more for ever increasing rents.
    They could just not allow oligarchs and other rich individuals owning high band properties to claim single person discount on their £65 million One Hyde Park mansions and design a fairer grant system that doesn't over fund central London boroughs so much that they are forced to raise their Band H council tax anyway. This would ensure said bachelor oligarchs end up paying a lot more than the pathetic £1k a year in council tax which is all they pay presently when pensioner couples elsewhere are paying £3500 a year on more out in the sticks!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 5,480

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
    They are being considered along with the impact of tax changes on single use coffee cups, takeaway boxes, straws etc
    A clutching at straws tax? That would really hit the Remoaners!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 26,029
    edited January 11
    TGOHF said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
    Pain in the neck for supermarkets - they have to do the work.

    With reducing plastics they simply beat their suppliers over the head to find a solution.

    When I was in Germany, they just had a machine you feed your bottles into, and then it returned your cash. Then I presume a lorry comes and picks up the massive bin behind the machine.

    I am sure the government could structure some sort of tax credit to make it cost efficient for supermarkets to put these machines in, remembering that the council will not be collecting glass and plastic bottles from homes anymore thus reducing the hugely inefficient use of labour there.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,188
    brendan16 said:

    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Williamson heading for the exit?

    Nothing to do with his Council Tax proposals?

    He's Shadow Minister for Fire and Emergency Services - I doubt having a view on Council tax, which, although not Labour's position, is far from heretical would be grounds for resignation
    Fire services are funded by council tax - so if you want more fire services presumably you need to pay for them somehow. Problem is his proposals would hit momentum central too hard - inner London, Brighton, Oxford and Cambridge renters!
    Their next proposal will be that landlords should pay council tax. As if they think that won’t make any difference.

    But it will allow them to attack landlords more for ever increasing rents.
    They could just not allow oligarchs and other rich individuals owning high band properties to claim single person discount on their £65 million One Hyde Park mansions and design a fairer grant system that doesn't over fund central London boroughs so much that they are forced to raise their Band H council tax anyway. This would ensure said bachelor oligarchs end up paying a lot more than the pathetic £1k a year in council tax which is all they pay presently when pensioner couples elsewhere are paying £3500 a year on more out in the sticks!

    Council Tax has a purpose. It is not meant to be an Income Tax.

  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 5,519
    Leave campaigners mocked for handing EU negotiator hamper full of ‘British’ products opposed to Brexit
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/leave-campaigners-hand-eu-hamper-full-british-products-opposed-brexit/
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 1,396

    I feel a bit sorry for Nigel Farage. The Tory Right were happy to defect to his party when that was a way of causing no end of trouble for Dave; but now that he's outlived his usefulness to them they're being beastly to him and calling him the most frightful names. What a cynical and ungrateful bunch!

    The Tories do that to everybody. Make use of them and then spit them out and trample on them. It`s the nature of the Conservative beast.

    After that, take credit for the policies advocated by the minority party, even though they were strongly opposed to them at the time.

    The Conservatives are the Ruthless and Cynical Party. Nobody should trust them an inch.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 5,884

    Has anyone thought that Farage suggestion for a second referendum is clever politics as it is more than likely to iritate many ordinary voters and turn public opinion against any prospect of a second referendum thereby dealing a blow to remainers great hope of changing the result

    That's possible. It's also possible he wants to frame the debate In?/Out? works better for him than "What do you want?"
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 10,838
    Perhaps Farage gave him advice on dual citizenship.

  • Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
    They are being considered along with the impact of tax changes on single use coffee cups, takeaway boxes, straws etc
    A clutching at straws tax? That would really hit the Remoaners!
    Single use straws are deadly killers of sea life and turtles. They are unnecessary and should be banned World wide
  • PClipp said:

    I feel a bit sorry for Nigel Farage. The Tory Right were happy to defect to his party when that was a way of causing no end of trouble for Dave; but now that he's outlived his usefulness to them they're being beastly to him and calling him the most frightful names. What a cynical and ungrateful bunch!

    The Tories do that to everybody. Make use of them and then spit them out and trample on them. It`s the nature of the Conservative beast.

    After that, take credit for the policies advocated by the minority party, even though they were strongly opposed to them at the time.

    The Conservatives are the Ruthless and Cynical Party. Nobody should trust them an inch.
    Sounds like you are feeling the pain of being the small partner in the coalition though it was a good government
  • FF43 said:

    Has anyone thought that Farage suggestion for a second referendum is clever politics as it is more than likely to iritate many ordinary voters and turn public opinion against any prospect of a second referendum thereby dealing a blow to remainers great hope of changing the result

    That's possible. It's also possible he wants to frame the debate In?/Out? works better for him than "What do you want?"
    Politics hey
  • Perhaps Farage gave him advice on dual citizenship.

    The only problem is how he gets from the embassy to heathrow without being arrested
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 26,029
    edited January 11

    Perhaps Farage gave him advice on dual citizenship.

    The only problem is how he gets from the embassy to heathrow without being arrested
    Knowing the MET, they will arrest the wrong guy...they all looked the same, they were all wearing the same football shirt.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 38,230
    dr_spyn said:

    NHS Winter crisis hasn't turned into Corbyn's trump card.

    Bumping along with a 1% polling lead.

    That new Yougov poll would give 392 Labour 286 Tory and 14 LD MPs so still almost neck and neck on seats at the top though Labour would likely do a deal with the SNP
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 26,029
    edited January 11
    HYUFD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    NHS Winter crisis hasn't turned into Corbyn's trump card.

    Bumping along with a 1% polling lead.

    That new Yougov poll would give 392 Labour 286 Tory and 14 LD MPs so still almost neck and neck on seats at the top though Labour would likely do a deal with the SNP
    TYPO alert....Good job it wasn't our OGH tweeting those seat figures.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,283

    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    dr_spyn said:

    NHS Winter crisis hasn't turned into Corbyn's trump card.

    Bumping along with a 1% polling lead.

    All that noise and so little, so very little, heat.

    especially with the Night of the Short Straws overkill about the reshuffle.
    The fieldwork for this poll was mostly conducted before the reshuffle.
    But still in the media's blitz on the government over the NHS crisis or perceived crisis
    "Perceived crisis" - Simply LOLz
    You do know Wales is far worse than England with terrible daily reports on ITV Wales and labour in serious trouble over it
    Is that your answer to everything? "I know it's bad mate, but you should come to Wales, it's far worse".

    For once, stop trying to score political points and face the facts. The NHS is in crisis - a severe crisis - people are dying on hospital trolleys. That should shame us all. What as a country are we going to do about it?
    For a start, we could listen to MPs/Lords who know more than a bit about healthcare

    Dr Sarah Wollaston
    Dr/Lord David Owen
    Stephen Dorrell ex-MP, involved in health for almost his whole political career
    Norman Lamb

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/health-and-care/house/59135/stephen-dorrell-health-and-political-sloganising-dont-mix

    There may be examples in Labour too but these were the first people I thought of who are prepared to put the NHS above short-term party politics.
    Thats not a bad list SW and SD have indeed criticised their own Government.

    I do agree with these call for a cross party solution, but can see why Labour thinks the current crisis is something of this Governments own making and wants to make Political Capital.

    In my view both main parties reaching a concensus is much more important than point scoring. The problem is urgent both front benches should be involved in a tax hike solution.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 5,884

    Perhaps Farage gave him advice on dual citizenship.

    The only problem is how he gets from the embassy to heathrow without being arrested
    Smuggle him out in the diplomatic bag? Can you make someone a diplomat and give them the status AFTER they have entered the country?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 16,698
    FF43 said:

    Has anyone thought that Farage suggestion for a second referendum is clever politics as it is more than likely to iritate many ordinary voters and turn public opinion against any prospect of a second referendum thereby dealing a blow to remainers great hope of changing the result

    That's possible. It's also possible he wants to frame the debate In?/Out? works better for him than "What do you want?"
    Farage said a few weeks ago that we'd be better off remaining in the EU than accepting the deal that May is negotiating.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 12,547

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
    They are being considered along with the impact of tax changes on single use coffee cups, takeaway boxes, straws etc
    A clutching at straws tax? That would really hit the Remoaners!
    Single use straws are deadly killers of sea life and turtles. They are unnecessary and should be banned World wide
    What would you have people who want a straw use at a restaurant instead of a straw then?

    Do you want a reusable straw someone else has chewed on?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 4,521

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Here you go (though I was referring to English retailers making the same points on the radio)

    But Ewan MacDonald-Russell, head of policy and external affairs at the Scottish Retail Consortium, hit out said a DRS was "unnecessary, anachronistic, and expensive".

    He said: "We know this scheme will be hugely expensive for retailers, costing tens of millions to install reverse vending machines, cannibalising profitable floor space for unprofitable waste machines, disrupting operations and hugely inconveniencing customers.

    The scheme will be expensive for retailers
    "In fact, the costs are clear. What is still uncertain is whether such a scheme will significantly improve overall recycling rates."

    Dr John Lee, head of policy and public Affairs for the Scottish Grocers Federation said: "There are already huge cost pressures on retailers and this would threaten the viability of most independent stores.

    "The potential cost to retailers is reason enough for this idea to be scrapped now."

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/823310/SNP-risks-row-row-pushing-forward-bottle-can-deposit-return-scheme
  • HYUFD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    NHS Winter crisis hasn't turned into Corbyn's trump card.

    Bumping along with a 1% polling lead.

    That new Yougov poll would give 392 Labour 286 Tory and 14 LD MPs so still almost neck and neck on seats at the top though Labour would likely do a deal with the SNP
    That is 692 ex SNP and others
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,283

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Williamson heading for the exit?

    Nothing to do with his Council Tax proposals?

    He's Shadow Minister for Fire and Emergency Services - I doubt having a view on Council tax, which, although not Labour's position, is far from heretical would be grounds for resignation
    Fire services are funded by council tax - so if you want more fire services presumably you need to pay for them somehow. Problem is his proposals would hit momentum central too hard - inner London, Brighton, Oxford and Cambridge renters!
    Their next proposal will be that landlords should pay council tax. As if they think that won’t make any difference.

    But it will allow them to attack landlords more for ever increasing rents.
    In Bristol, the Maomentumers are proposing things along those lines e.g. University should pay council tax for each student in uni accommodation.
    But a house full of students currently pays no council tax at all, are they proposing to change that? A Hall of Residence isn’t a profit centre for a university, they’ll just pass on any mandated increase in costs to their students - and make the university comparatively unpopular with those for whom costs of living are important. Only rich kids can afford to study at Bristol.
    Don't confuse the Maomentumers with complex stuff like free market economics...anyway their great wannabe chancellor is going to change the whole broken capitalist system to something better anyway.
    You would have thought the Tories would have understood simple supply and demand well before the 7th year of an NHS pay freeze.
  • TGOHF said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
    Pain in the neck for supermarkets - they have to do the work.

    With reducing plastics they simply beat their suppliers over the head to find a solution.

    When I was in Germany, they just had a machine you feed your bottles into, and then it returned your cash. Then I presume a lorry comes and picks up the massive bin behind the machine.

    I am sure the government could structure some sort of tax credit to make it cost efficient for supermarkets to put these machines in, remembering that the council will not be collecting glass and plastic bottles from homes anymore thus reducing the hugely inefficient use of labour there.
    Yes, you take your empties back to the supermarket when you go shopping and feed them into a machine, which then typically dispenses a credit slip that you can use at the checkout when paying for your shopping. It seems to all work quite smoothly.

    Also, if people do leave bottles lying around after a celebration or something, then they generally get collected by kids and tramps keen to make a few coppers. When I was last there, the deposit was typically 25 cents per bottle.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 12,547

    TGOHF said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
    Pain in the neck for supermarkets - they have to do the work.

    With reducing plastics they simply beat their suppliers over the head to find a solution.

    When I was in Germany, they just had a machine you feed your bottles into, and then it returned your cash. Then I presume a lorry comes and picks up the massive bin behind the machine.

    I am sure the government could structure some sort of tax credit to make it cost efficient for supermarkets to put these machines in, remembering that the council will not be collecting glass and plastic bottles from homes anymore thus reducing the hugely inefficient use of labour there.
    Many (most?) Councils simply collect "mixed recycling" rather than a separate glass and plastic bottle recycling. That will still have to be collected so there's no saving in labour unless you want to cancel mixed recycling collections?
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
    They are being considered along with the impact of tax changes on single use coffee cups, takeaway boxes, straws etc
    A clutching at straws tax? That would really hit the Remoaners!
    Single use straws are deadly killers of sea life and turtles. They are unnecessary and should be banned World wide
    What would you have people who want a straw use at a restaurant instead of a straw then?

    Do you want a reusable straw someone else has chewed on?
    The Industry has to produce bio degradable straws or other alternatives
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 4,439
    edited January 11
    HYUFD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    NHS Winter crisis hasn't turned into Corbyn's trump card.

    Bumping along with a 1% polling lead.

    That new Yougov poll would give 392 Labour 286 Tory and 14 LD MPs so still almost neck and neck on seats at the top though Labour would likely do a deal with the SNP
    Per UKPR advanced swingometer (keeping Scotland and Wales unchanged) it gives:

    Lab 288, Con 287, LD 17, SNP 35

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/advanced-swingometer-map
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 5,519

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
    They are being considered along with the impact of tax changes on single use coffee cups, takeaway boxes, straws etc
    A clutching at straws tax? That would really hit the Remoaners!
    Single use straws are deadly killers of sea life and turtles. They are unnecessary and should be banned World wide
    What would you have people who want a straw use at a restaurant instead of a straw then?

    Do you want a reusable straw someone else has chewed on?
    The Industry has to produce bio degradable straws or other alternatives
    They used to be waxed paper.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 12,547
    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Williamson heading for the exit?

    Nothing to do with his Council Tax proposals?

    He's Shadow Minister for Fire and Emergency Services - I doubt having a view on Council tax, which, although not Labour's position, is far from heretical would be grounds for resignation
    Fire services are funded by council tax - so if you want more fire services presumably you need to pay for them somehow. Problem is his proposals would hit momentum central too hard - inner London, Brighton, Oxford and Cambridge renters!
    Their next proposal will be that landlords should pay council tax. As if they think that won’t make any difference.

    But it will allow them to attack landlords more for ever increasing rents.
    Landlords do pay property tax in America. The tenant doesn't.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 26,029
    edited January 11

    TGOHF said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
    Pain in the neck for supermarkets - they have to do the work.

    With reducing plastics they simply beat their suppliers over the head to find a solution.

    When I was in Germany, they just had a machine you feed your bottles into, and then it returned your cash. Then I presume a lorry comes and picks up the massive bin behind the machine.

    I am sure the government could structure some sort of tax credit to make it cost efficient for supermarkets to put these machines in, remembering that the council will not be collecting glass and plastic bottles from homes anymore thus reducing the hugely inefficient use of labour there.
    Many (most?) Councils simply collect "mixed recycling" rather than a separate glass and plastic bottle recycling. That will still have to be collected so there's no saving in labour unless you want to cancel mixed recycling collections?
    I will think you will find when they don’t specify either the dustmen have to separate as they go into different parts of the truck or when it gets to the depot it is sorted.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 12,547

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
    They are being considered along with the impact of tax changes on single use coffee cups, takeaway boxes, straws etc
    A clutching at straws tax? That would really hit the Remoaners!
    Single use straws are deadly killers of sea life and turtles. They are unnecessary and should be banned World wide
    What would you have people who want a straw use at a restaurant instead of a straw then?

    Do you want a reusable straw someone else has chewed on?
    The Industry has to produce bio degradable straws or other alternatives
    So you still want single use straws?
  • murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    dr_spyn said:

    NHS Winter crisis hasn't turned into Corbyn's trump card.

    Bumping along with a 1% polling lead.

    All that noise and so little, so very little, heat.

    especially with the Night of the Short Straws overkill about the reshuffle.
    The fieldwork for this poll was mostly conducted before the reshuffle.
    But still in the media's blitz on the government over the NHS crisis or perceived crisis
    "Perceived crisis" - Simply LOLz
    You do know Wales is far worse than England with terrible daily reports on ITV Wales and labour in serious trouble over it
    Is that your answer to everything? "I know it's bad mate, but you should come to Wales, it's far worse".

    For once, stop trying to score political points and face the facts. The NHS is in crisis - a severe crisis - people are dying on hospital trolleys. That should shame us all. What as a country are we going to do about it?
    For a start, we could listen to MPs/Lords who know more than a bit about healthcare

    Dr Sarah Wollaston
    Dr/Lord David Owen
    Stephen Dorrell ex-MP, involved in health for almost his whole political career
    Norman Lamb

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/health-and-care/house/59135/stephen-dorrell-health-and-political-sloganising-dont-mix

    There may be examples in Labour too but these were the first people I thought of who are prepared to put the NHS above short-term party politics.
    Thats not a bad list SW and SD have indeed criticised their own Government.

    I do agree with these call for a cross party solution, but can see why Labour thinks the current crisis is something of this Governments own making and wants to make Political Capital.

    In my view both main parties reaching a concensus is much more important than point scoring. The problem is urgent both front benches should be involved in a tax hike solution.
    I absolutely agree and indeed with the present problems and huge investment required it is the only answer
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 38,230
    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    NHS Winter crisis hasn't turned into Corbyn's trump card.

    Bumping along with a 1% polling lead.

    That new Yougov poll would give 392 Labour 286 Tory and 14 LD MPs so still almost neck and neck on seats at the top though Labour would likely do a deal with the SNP
    Per UKPR advanced swingometer (keeping Scotland and Wales unchanged) it gives:

    Lab 288, Con 287, LD 17, SNP 35

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/advanced-swingometer-map
    The clear trend at the moment is a Labour minority government with SNP confidence and supply
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 12,547

    TGOHF said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
    Pain in the neck for supermarkets - they have to do the work.

    With reducing plastics they simply beat their suppliers over the head to find a solution.

    When I was in Germany, they just had a machine you feed your bottles into, and then it returned your cash. Then I presume a lorry comes and picks up the massive bin behind the machine.

    I am sure the government could structure some sort of tax credit to make it cost efficient for supermarkets to put these machines in, remembering that the council will not be collecting glass and plastic bottles from homes anymore thus reducing the hugely inefficient use of labour there.
    Many (most?) Councils simply collect "mixed recycling" rather than a separate glass and plastic bottle recycling. That will still have to be collected so there's no saving in labour unless you want to cancel mixed recycling collections?
    I will think you will find when they don’t specify either the dustmen have to separate as they go into different parts of the truck or when it gets to the depot it is sorted.
    The dustmen certainly don't! It gets lifted by the crane at the back of the machine and simply dumped into the bin.

    As for the depot that's still going to have to do sorting either way. Those depots are actually highly efficient places and there will not be any significant saving just from removing bottles from the mix while still sorting everything else.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 42,354

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
    They are being considered along with the impact of tax changes on single use coffee cups, takeaway boxes, straws etc
    A clutching at straws tax? That would really hit the Remoaners!
    Single use straws are deadly killers of sea life and turtles. They are unnecessary and should be banned World wide
    What would you have people who want a straw use at a restaurant instead of a straw then?

    Do you want a reusable straw someone else has chewed on?
    The Industry has to produce bio degradable straws or other alternatives
    They used to be waxed paper.
    https://www.aardvarkstraws.com/
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 5,519

    TGOHF said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
    Pain in the neck for supermarkets - they have to do the work.

    With reducing plastics they simply beat their suppliers over the head to find a solution.

    When I was in Germany, they just had a machine you feed your bottles into, and then it returned your cash. Then I presume a lorry comes and picks up the massive bin behind the machine.

    I am sure the government could structure some sort of tax credit to make it cost efficient for supermarkets to put these machines in, remembering that the council will not be collecting glass and plastic bottles from homes anymore thus reducing the hugely inefficient use of labour there.
    Yes, you take your empties back to the supermarket when you go shopping and feed them into a machine, which then typically dispenses a credit slip that you can use at the checkout when paying for your shopping. It seems to all work quite smoothly.

    Also, if people do leave bottles lying around after a celebration or something, then they generally get collected by kids and tramps keen to make a few coppers. When I was last there, the deposit was typically 25 cents per bottle.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 2,706

    FF43 said:

    Has anyone thought that Farage suggestion for a second referendum is clever politics as it is more than likely to iritate many ordinary voters and turn public opinion against any prospect of a second referendum thereby dealing a blow to remainers great hope of changing the result

    That's possible. It's also possible he wants to frame the debate In?/Out? works better for him than "What do you want?"
    Farage said a few weeks ago that we'd be better off remaining in the EU than accepting the deal that May is negotiating.
    I think a lot of people will agree with him on that point, when push comes to shove.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 38,230

    HYUFD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    NHS Winter crisis hasn't turned into Corbyn's trump card.

    Bumping along with a 1% polling lead.

    That new Yougov poll would give 392 Labour 286 Tory and 14 LD MPs so still almost neck and neck on seats at the top though Labour would likely do a deal with the SNP
    TYPO alert....Good job it wasn't our OGH tweeting those seat figures.
    Sorry 292 Labour 286 Tory and 14 LD, corrected
  • MattWMattW Posts: 1,813

    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Williamson heading for the exit?

    Nothing to do with his Council Tax proposals?

    He's Shadow Minister for Fire and Emergency Services - I doubt having a view on Council tax, which, although not Labour's position, is far from heretical would be grounds for resignation
    Fire services are funded by council tax - so if you want more fire services presumably you need to pay for them somehow. Problem is his proposals would hit momentum central too hard - inner London, Brighton, Oxford and Cambridge renters!
    Their next proposal will be that landlords should pay council tax. As if they think that won’t make any difference.

    But it will allow them to attack landlords more for ever increasing rents.
    Landlords do pay property tax in America. The tenant doesn't.
    The incidence is on the tenant because that is where all the money in the pot comes from, regardless of the rhetoric.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 11,550
    edited January 11

    TGOHF said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
    Pain in the neck for supermarkets - they have to do the work.

    With reducing plastics they simply beat their suppliers over the head to find a solution.

    When I was in Germany, they just had a machine you feed your bottles into, and then it returned your cash. Then I presume a lorry comes and picks up the massive bin behind the machine.

    I am sure the government could structure some sort of tax credit to make it cost efficient for supermarkets to put these machines in, remembering that the council will not be collecting glass and plastic bottles from homes anymore thus reducing the hugely inefficient use of labour there.
    Many (most?) Councils simply collect "mixed recycling" rather than a separate glass and plastic bottle recycling. That will still have to be collected so there's no saving in labour unless you want to cancel mixed recycling collections?
    I will think you will find when they don’t specify either the dustmen have to separate as they go into different parts of the truck or when it gets to the depot it is sorted.
    In Wales plastic and glass are separated by the home owner before they are put out in our trolley blocks. But Wales is far ahead in recycling generally
  • TGOHF said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
    Pain in the neck for supermarkets - they have to do the work.

    With reducing plastics they simply beat their suppliers over the head to find a solution.

    When I was in Germany, they just had a machine you feed your bottles into, and then it returned your cash. Then I presume a lorry comes and picks up the massive bin behind the machine.

    I am sure the government could structure some sort of tax credit to make it cost efficient for supermarkets to put these machines in, remembering that the council will not be collecting glass and plastic bottles from homes anymore thus reducing the hugely inefficient use of labour there.
    Many (most?) Councils simply collect "mixed recycling" rather than a separate glass and plastic bottle recycling. That will still have to be collected so there's no saving in labour unless you want to cancel mixed recycling collections?
    There are two advantages with a deposit scheme. One is that there is a financial incentive to recycle bottles, rather than simply relying on the goodwill of consumers, thus making it more effective. Secondly, the collected bottles are usually not just recycled, but cleaned and reused, which is much more energy efficient than separating and melting down the glass or plastic to make new bottles.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 4,541
    RobD said:

    Oh dear, Katie Hopkins now facing a huge costs bill

    That's not news, is it?

    https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/katie-hopkins-to-appeal/5060323.article

    It's still amusing though.
    Sounds as though the appeal has been refused.

    Appeal not allowed.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 22,864
    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    NHS Winter crisis hasn't turned into Corbyn's trump card.

    Bumping along with a 1% polling lead.

    That new Yougov poll would give 392 Labour 286 Tory and 14 LD MPs so still almost neck and neck on seats at the top though Labour would likely do a deal with the SNP
    Per UKPR advanced swingometer (keeping Scotland and Wales unchanged) it gives:

    Lab 288, Con 287, LD 17, SNP 35

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/advanced-swingometer-map
    There really isn't much in it. A 2-3% swing either way from that could deliver the Conservatives or Labour a working majority.

    And the polls could stay pretty much the same from today until the last month prior to GE2022, and then suddenly tack in someone's favour in the final few weeks.

    We just don't know.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 12,547

    There are two advantages with a deposit scheme. One is that there is a financial incentive to recycle bottles, rather than simply relying on the goodwill of consumers, thus making it more effective. Secondly, the collected bottles are usually not just recycled, but cleaned and reused, which is much more energy efficient than separating and melting down the glass or plastic to make new bottles.

    I understand that on an environmental level but Mr Urquhart was proposing tax credits on supermarkets paid for by reducing council expenditure on recycling collection at the doorstep. However there won't be any significant reduced expenditure on collection as the collection and sorting will still need to occur anyway.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 4,322

    Perhaps Farage gave him advice on dual citizenship.

    The only problem is how he gets from the embassy to heathrow without being arrested
    They give him diplomatic status ... ?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,292
    Nigelb said:

    Perhaps Farage gave him advice on dual citizenship.

    The only problem is how he gets from the embassy to heathrow without being arrested
    They give him diplomatic status ... ?
    They tried, the UK refused to recognise it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 26,029
    edited January 11

    There are two advantages with a deposit scheme. One is that there is a financial incentive to recycle bottles, rather than simply relying on the goodwill of consumers, thus making it more effective. Secondly, the collected bottles are usually not just recycled, but cleaned and reused, which is much more energy efficient than separating and melting down the glass or plastic to make new bottles.

    I understand that on an environmental level but Mr Urquhart was proposing tax credits on supermarkets paid for by reducing council expenditure on recycling collection at the doorstep. However there won't be any significant reduced expenditure on collection as the collection and sorting will still need to occur anyway.
    I didn’t say paid for, i hypothesised that would enable garbage collection to be more efficient so there would be some offset.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 38,230
    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    NHS Winter crisis hasn't turned into Corbyn's trump card.

    Bumping along with a 1% polling lead.

    That new Yougov poll would give 392 Labour 286 Tory and 14 LD MPs so still almost neck and neck on seats at the top though Labour would likely do a deal with the SNP
    Per UKPR advanced swingometer (keeping Scotland and Wales unchanged) it gives:

    Lab 288, Con 287, LD 17, SNP 35

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/advanced-swingometer-map
    Those LD numbers assume they pick up a seat from the SNP and Plaid and Sheffield Hallam from Labour as well as 2 Tory seats
  • MattWMattW Posts: 1,813
    edited January 11
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Williamson heading for the exit?

    Nothing to do with his Council Tax proposals?

    He's Shadow Minister for Fire and Emergency Services - I doubt having a view on Council tax, which, although not Labour's position, is far from heretical would be grounds for resignation
    Fire services are funded by council tax - so if you want more fire services presumably you need to pay for them somehow. Problem is his proposals would hit momentum central too hard - inner London, Brighton, Oxford and Cambridge renters!
    Their next proposal will be that landlords should pay council tax. As if they think that won’t make any difference.

    But it will allow them to attack landlords more for ever increasing rents.
    In Bristol, the Maomentumers are proposing things along those lines e.g. University should pay council tax for each student in uni accommodation.
    But a house full of students currently pays no council tax at all, are they proposing to change that? A Hall of Residence isn’t a profit centre for a university, they’ll just pass on any mandated increase in costs to their students - and make the university comparatively unpopular with those for whom costs of living are important. Only rich kids can afford to study at Bristol.
    @Sandpit

    Do you have evidence for that last one - "halls are not profit centres"?

    I think if you study the long term rent charges at University Halls of Residence you will find them increasing much faster than inflation with no improvements to the halls.

    In our local University in one hall that I know about the charges to students increased by inflation + 50% over one decade by inflation + about 3-4% each year. No improvements to the hall paid for by the university.

    They probably call it something different, due to being a charity.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,292

    RobD said:

    Oh dear, Katie Hopkins now facing a huge costs bill

    twitter.com/Greg_Callus/status/951473074041442304

    That's not news, is it?

    www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/katie-hopkins-to-appeal/5060323.article

    It's still amusing though.
    Sounds as though the appeal has been refused.

    Appeal not allowed.
    Yeah, I was trying to say that (and failing, miserably).
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 4,541

    TGOHF said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
    Pain in the neck for supermarkets - they have to do the work.

    With reducing plastics they simply beat their suppliers over the head to find a solution.

    When I was in Germany, they just had a machine you feed your bottles into, and then it returned your cash. Then I presume a lorry comes and picks up the massive bin behind the machine.

    I am sure the government could structure some sort of tax credit to make it cost efficient for supermarkets to put these machines in, remembering that the council will not be collecting glass and plastic bottles from homes anymore thus reducing the hugely inefficient use of labour there.
    Many (most?) Councils simply collect "mixed recycling" rather than a separate glass and plastic bottle recycling. That will still have to be collected so there's no saving in labour unless you want to cancel mixed recycling collections?
    I will think you will find when they don’t specify either the dustmen have to separate as they go into different parts of the truck or when it gets to the depot it is sorted.
    In Wales plastic and glass are separated by the home owner before they are put out in our trolley blocks. But Wales is far ahead in recycling generally
    But are Wales' recycling rates higher than in England.

    My area, Aylesbury Vale, achieves 54%. The best is Oxfordshire which achieves 70%
  • There are two advantages with a deposit scheme. One is that there is a financial incentive to recycle bottles, rather than simply relying on the goodwill of consumers, thus making it more effective. Secondly, the collected bottles are usually not just recycled, but cleaned and reused, which is much more energy efficient than separating and melting down the glass or plastic to make new bottles.

    I understand that on an environmental level but Mr Urquhart was proposing tax credits on supermarkets paid for by reducing council expenditure on recycling collection at the doorstep. However there won't be any significant reduced expenditure on collection as the collection and sorting will still need to occur anyway.
    Yes, that's a fair point. Other recyclables are still collected at the doorstep in Germany. One big plus with the German system is that it is a unified national system: a blue bin for card and paper, a yellow sack for other recyclable materials, a green bin for organic waste and a (small!) black bin for anything else. Gove's idea of doing the same in the UK is a good one.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 333
    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    NHS Winter crisis hasn't turned into Corbyn's trump card.

    Bumping along with a 1% polling lead.

    That new Yougov poll would give 392 Labour 286 Tory and 14 LD MPs so still almost neck and neck on seats at the top though Labour would likely do a deal with the SNP
    Per UKPR advanced swingometer (keeping Scotland and Wales unchanged) it gives:

    Lab 288, Con 287, LD 17, SNP 35

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/advanced-swingometer-map
    Those LD numbers assume they pick up a seat from the SNP and Plaid and Sheffield Hallam from Labour as well as 2 Tory seats
    Baxtering the Scottish sub-sample figures on their own (I know, I know...) suggest a much bigger SNP gain, and a mortal blow to Ruth Davidson's ambition/reputation!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 16,097
    Brom said:

    murali_s said:

    I feel a bit sorry for Nigel Farage. The Tory Right were happy to defect to his party when that was a way of causing no end of trouble for Dave; but now that he's outlived his usefulness to them they're being beastly to him and calling him the most frightful names. What a cynical and ungrateful bunch!

    +1
    I doubt Nigel has any concern what people think about him and that's partly why he's been so successful. The guy had the last laugh against the Europhiles and his place in history is assured, I do agree though that he is struggling for a purpose somewhat since Britain decided to leave.
    He’s struggling with the fact that his job is done, and it’s now for the elected British government to work out how to best implement the vote for Brexit.

    He just doesn’t understand why he’s not front and centre any more, as he was a couple of years ago
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 16,097
    brendan16 said:

    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Williamson heading for the exit?

    Nothing to do with his Council Tax proposals?

    He's Shadow Minister for Fire and Emergency Services - I doubt having a view on Council tax, which, although not Labour's position, is far from heretical would be grounds for resignation
    Fire services are funded by council tax - so if you want more fire services presumably you need to pay for them somehow. Problem is his proposals would hit momentum central too hard - inner London, Brighton, Oxford and Cambridge renters!
    Their next proposal will be that landlords should pay council tax. As if they think that won’t make any difference.

    But it will allow them to attack landlords more for ever increasing rents.
    They could just not allow oligarchs and other rich individuals owning high band properties to claim single person discount on their £65 million One Hyde Park mansions and design a fairer grant system that doesn't over fund central London boroughs so much that they are forced to raise their Band H council tax anyway. This would ensure said bachelor oligarchs end up paying a lot more than the pathetic £1k a year in council tax which is all they pay presently when pensioner couples elsewhere are paying £3500 a year on more out in the sticks!
    It’s up to the council what their levels of council tax are though. If Westminster council choose to raise money with a small army of traffic wardens rather than from their own residents in council tax, then that’s up to them. How much should Westmisnster council be obliged to raise from their residents, and what should they be obliged to do with the surplus?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 9,131


    I have indeed read into that what I liked.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 6,487
    Just had a thought... is this the start of a leadership campaign for Nige???
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 503
    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Williamson heading for the exit?

    Nothing to do with his Council Tax proposals?

    He's Shadow Minister for Fire and Emergency Services - I doubt having a view on Council tax, which, although not Labour's position, is far from heretical would be grounds for resignation
    Fire services are funded by council tax - so if you want more fire services presumably you need to pay for them somehow. Problem is his proposals would hit momentum central too hard - inner London, Brighton, Oxford and Cambridge renters!
    Their next proposal will be that landlords should pay council tax. As if they think that won’t make any difference.

    But it will allow them to attack landlords more for ever increasing rents.
    They could just not allow oligarchs and other rich individuals owning high band properties to claim single person discount on their £65 million One Hyde Park mansions and design a fairer grant system that doesn't over fund central London boroughs so much that they are forced to raise their Band H council tax anyway. This would ensure said bachelor oligarchs end up paying a lot more than the pathetic £1k a year in council tax which is all they pay presently when pensioner couples elsewhere are paying £3500 a year on more out in the sticks!
    It’s up to the council what their levels of council tax are though. If Westminster council choose to raise money with a small army of traffic wardens rather than from their own residents in council tax, then that’s up to them. How much should Westmisnster council be obliged to raise from their residents, and what should they be obliged to do with the surplus?
    It isn't actually up to the council as the government provides a large share of the funding via business rates and grants, And there are government imposed referendum limits which restrict rises - oddly the government isn't required to hold referendums to raise taxes above inflation but councils are!

    So how grants and rates are distributed makes a huge difference. Do you really think central London boroughs - which have the lowest band D taxes - are more efficient than other councils or do they just get too much funding via parking, business rates and council tax.

    It is an absolute disgrace that someone living in an apartment worth tens of millions can pay as little as £1k a year in property tax when in Manhattan or Paris they would pay many times that.

    All because the current system is grossly regressive and secondly because the distribution of funding by government reflects historic quirks not current need.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 11,550
    edited January 11

    Many (most?) Councils simply collect "mixed recycling" rather than a separate glass and plastic bottle recycling. That will still have to be collected so there's no saving in labour unless you want to cancel mixed recycling collections?

    I will think you will find when they don’t specify either the dustmen have to separate as they go into different parts of the truck or when it gets to the depot it is sorted.

    In Wales plastic and glass are separated by the home owner before they are put out in our trolley blocks. But Wales is far ahead in recycling generally

    But are Wales' recycling rates higher than in England.

    My area, Aylesbury Vale, achieves 54%. The best is Oxfordshire which achieves 70%

    ..............................................................................................................................

    At 64% Wales is well ahead of the rest of the UK, second in Europe, and third in the World recycling tables.

    Very proud of these figures - indeed our LA is thinking of four weekly bin collections rather than the present three
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 4,541

    TGOHF said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Greenpeace questioned why there was no mention of deposit return schemes for bottles

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42651480

    I have to say, I have no idea why this is so difficult....You go to places like Canada and they have had it for donkeys years. It really isn't that complicated.

    We've had that argument: small retailers hate bottle deposits.

    Good for TMay for this plan. The trouble is partly that it involves abolishing the large and utterly pointless bottled water industry (put taps eveywhere, and people can fill their own bottles). Cutting Vichy off at the knees would be the best political gesture ever, but there are UK players.
    I actually don't remember the debate. Why do they hate bottle deposits, say anymore than charging for bags? It doesn't seem that much of an imposition, and so many other countries I have been to have something along these lines.
    Germany does it, and we used to do it once upon a time. It seems bizarre that bottle deposits aren't being considered.
    Pain in the neck for supermarkets - they have to do the work.

    With reducing plastics they simply beat their suppliers over the head to find a solution.

    When I was in Germany, they just had a machine you feed your bottles into, and then it returned your cash. Then I presume a lorry comes and picks up the massive bin behind the machine.

    I am sure the government could structure some sort of tax credit to make it cost efficient for supermarkets to put these machines in, remembering that the council will not be collecting glass and plastic bottles from homes anymore thus reducing the hugely inefficient use of labour there.
    Many (most?) Councils simply collect "mixed recycling" rather than a separate glass and plastic bottle recycling. That will still have to be collected so there's no saving in labour unless you want to cancel mixed recycling collections?
    I will think you will find when they don’t specify either the dustmen have to separate as they go into different parts of the truck or when it gets to the depot it is sorted.
    In Wales plastic and glass are separated by the home owner before they are put out in our trolley blocks. But Wales is far ahead in recycling generally
    We used to have separate bins for paper, plastic and bottles but now we have only one and machinery is used to separate it out at the depot.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,094
    edited January 11

    Just had a thought... is this the start of a leadership campaign for Nige???

    What - of the LibDems?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 5,884
    FF43 said:

    Perhaps Farage gave him advice on dual citizenship.

    The only problem is how he gets from the embassy to heathrow without being arrested
    Smuggle him out in the diplomatic bag? Can you make someone a diplomat and give them the status AFTER they have entered the country?
    Further thought. Assange would only be a diplomat in the UK if he was accredited to the UK - not going to happen. An Ecuadorean representative to a UN body? Up to the UN to accredit him. In the Diplomatic Bag? The UK seizes the container first and pulls out Assange. The Ecuadoreans make a complaint about the UK's violation of immunity because it opened the bag, containing non-immune material, ie Assange. By then it's too late.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 7,711
    Another referendum. Double and quits.
  • stevefstevef Posts: 999
    Jonathan said:

    Another referendum. Double and quits.

    Tony Blair has already refused to rule out a third referendum if Remain lost again.
  • ITV Wales headlines - NHS A & E patients being told they do not need to be there

    But also Wales Education - Schools at breaking point following funding crisis

    Labour failing in Wales on health and education
  • stevefstevef Posts: 999
    Good news for remoaners. If Farage became UKIP leader again, remainers could all vote for UKIP knowing that Farage was demanding a second referendum.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 16,097

    Perhaps Farage gave him advice on dual citizenship.

    The only problem is how he gets from the embassy to heathrow without being arrested
    I fear they’re about to test the rules of diplomatic bags. Would be a shame if the bag ended up on board an unpressurised cargo plane...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,190


    Many (most?) Councils simply collect "mixed recycling" rather than a separate glass and plastic bottle recycling. That will still have to be collected so there's no saving in labour unless you want to cancel mixed recycling collections?

    I will think you will find when they don’t specify either the dustmen have to separate as they go into different parts of the truck or when it gets to the depot it is sorted.

    In Wales plastic and glass are separated by the home owner before they are put out in our trolley blocks. But Wales is far ahead in recycling generally

    But are Wales' recycling rates higher than in England.

    My area, Aylesbury Vale, achieves 54%. The best is Oxfordshire which achieves 70%

    ..............................................................................................................................

    At 64% Wales is well ahead of the rest of the UK, second in Europe, and third in the World recycling tables.

    Very proud of these figures - indeed our LA is thinking of four weekly bin collections rather than the present three

    Glad to see Wales is doing something right!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 38,230
    sarissa said:

    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    NHS Winter crisis hasn't turned into Corbyn's trump card.

    Bumping along with a 1% polling lead.

    That new Yougov poll would give 392 Labour 286 Tory and 14 LD MPs so still almost neck and neck on seats at the top though Labour would likely do a deal with the SNP
    Per UKPR advanced swingometer (keeping Scotland and Wales unchanged) it gives:

    Lab 288, Con 287, LD 17, SNP 35

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/advanced-swingometer-map
    Those LD numbers assume they pick up a seat from the SNP and Plaid and Sheffield Hallam from Labour as well as 2 Tory seats
    Baxtering the Scottish sub-sample figures on their own (I know, I know...) suggest a much bigger SNP gain, and a mortal blow to Ruth Davidson's ambition/reputation!
    Even then that makes zero difference to the overall picture, a Labour minority government with SNP confidence and supply.

    With polls for Holyrood showing a unionist majority in 2021 we could end up with the SNP holding the balance of power at Westminster but losing their majority with the Greens at Holyrood
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 1,264
    Great news – our universities have exceeded expectations and produced over one in four graduates with first class degrees and two thirds of the rest getting upper seconds. Students obviously working harder nowadays, as the BBC confirms.
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