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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » How Britain should play the Trump card without folding or uppi

SystemSystem Posts: 3,967
edited January 12 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » How Britain should play the Trump card without folding or upping the ante

The vertiginous rise of the new champion of the alt-right in 2016 prompted a palpable blend of bafflement and consternation among the political elite right around the globe. Few dared even imagine that Donald Trump would triumph over his wily, experienced, and altogether far more internationally acceptable rival in the US presidential election. Indeed, most appeared caught almost completely off-guard and, a year on, none have yet managed to figure out quite how to tame the beast (if such a thing is possible).

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Interesting piece.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 5,386
    edited January 12
    Scott_P said:
    Easy statement for Mrs May's PR Team, I think: "When the former Mayor of London refers to his successor as a 'puffed up pompous popinjay in City Hall' Boris knows what he is talking about."
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 25,655
    We are losing money left, right and centre....time to get a new masthead...I'm blown away, definitely going to sub to them now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jan/12/guardian-unveils-new-masthead-tabloid-launch-newspaper-online-apps
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,494
    edited January 12
    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duterte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 12,921
    Interesting piece. We should also not overlook the reality that a huge amount of UK-USA interaction, which defines the so-called special relationship, operates well below Trump's level. Basic intelligence sharing, military work through NATO etc etc.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 61,036
    edited January 12
    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 1,853
    edited January 12
    FF43 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Easy statement for Mrs May's PR Team, I think: "When the former Mayor of London refers to his successor as a 'puffed up pompous popinjay in City Hall' Boris knows what he is talking about."
    Interesting that Boris is choosing to recycle George Galloway (who used this euphonious, but archaic, term for a parrot) to describe the late Christopher Hitchens.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 4,228

    We are losing money left, right and centre....time to get a new masthead...I'm blown away, definitely going to sub to them now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jan/12/guardian-unveils-new-masthead-tabloid-launch-newspaper-online-apps

    I hate that sort of negativity. Did you not read that "The new design is the result of months of thought, creativity and vision by a team of talented designers and senior editors"?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 25,263
    Trump’s actions and policies do not indicate that he is an Anglophile.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,494
    edited January 12

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 12,921
    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duterte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    I am against a visit. It is not worth the security nightmare and massive, and I mean massive, police costs.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 1,853
    The main job of the next US President will be to repair all the bridges that Trump has broken. I'd expect the UK to be one of the first on the list.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 25,263
    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duterte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    Both Macron and Trudeau have also very publicly established that they are not afraid to be critical of Trump and have demonstrated their independence. That has given them the freedom domestically to engage with the US president. May’s timidity makes it much harder for her to do the same.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 12,921

    The main job of the next US President will be to repair all the bridges that Trump has broken. I'd expect the UK to be one of the first on the list.

    Oprah will be seeing the Queen (God willing) in early Feb 2021.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 1,853

    Trump’s actions and policies do not indicate that he is an Anglophile.

    He loves nothing but himself.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 10,597
    Is the author on a syllables per word rate?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 25,655
    edited January 12
    Ishmael_Z said:

    We are losing money left, right and centre....time to get a new masthead...I'm blown away, definitely going to sub to them now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jan/12/guardian-unveils-new-masthead-tabloid-launch-newspaper-online-apps

    I hate that sort of negativity. Did you not read that "The new design is the result of months of thought, creativity and vision by a team of talented designers and senior editors"?
    MONTHS....Jesus Christ...Meetings about meetings about meetings about a new font and using black rather than white colour.

    I could never work in the creative industries!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 15,460
    Very good article, thanks Julian.
    (Maybe he’s known on here by another name)

    We need to see the world as it is, and the relationship between the UK and USA will continue despite the current incumbents. The likes of Sadiq Khan and his virtue signalling aren’t helpful, the government (Boris and the PM) need to make this clear and offer the president a visit.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 1,925
    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duterte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    No thanks - Trump can stick with Netanyahu - two odious scumbags!

    Birds of a feather and all that...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,922

    Ishmael_Z said:

    We are losing money left, right and centre....time to get a new masthead...I'm blown away, definitely going to sub to them now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jan/12/guardian-unveils-new-masthead-tabloid-launch-newspaper-online-apps

    I hate that sort of negativity. Did you not read that "The new design is the result of months of thought, creativity and vision by a team of talented designers and senior editors"?
    MONTHS....Jesus Christ...Meetings about meetings about meetings about a new font and using black rather than white colour.

    I could never work in the creative industries!
    Is it even a new font? Looks like they just swapped the colours. At least they spelt it correctly :p
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 25,655

    The main job of the next US President will be to repair all the bridges that Trump has broken. I'd expect the UK to be one of the first on the list.

    Oprah will be seeing the Queen (God willing) in early Feb 2021.
    I bet the gifts will be a lot better than Obama's.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 15,460

    We are losing money left, right and centre....time to get a new masthead...I'm blown away, definitely going to sub to them now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jan/12/guardian-unveils-new-masthead-tabloid-launch-newspaper-online-apps

    But that page still has the old one at the top.

    How much did they spend on the custom Berliner format presses?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,494
    edited January 12

    The main job of the next US President will be to repair all the bridges that Trump has broken. I'd expect the UK to be one of the first on the list.

    Apart from maybe FDR during WW2 and JFK Republican Presidents tend to be more Anglophile than Democrats, Democrats more focused on continental Europe
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,494

    The main job of the next US President will be to repair all the bridges that Trump has broken. I'd expect the UK to be one of the first on the list.

    Oprah will be seeing the Queen (God willing) in early Feb 2021.
    Or Boris will be visiting Trump
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 12,921
    Sandpit said:

    We are losing money left, right and centre....time to get a new masthead...I'm blown away, definitely going to sub to them now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jan/12/guardian-unveils-new-masthead-tabloid-launch-newspaper-online-apps

    But that page still has the old one at the top.

    How much did they spend on the custom Berliner format presses?
    Lots. Millions. But the problem was not predicting the speed of the decline of the paper press because of digital rather than the presses themselves.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 1,925
    Sandpit said:

    Very good article, thanks Julian.
    (Maybe he’s known on here by another name)

    We need to see the world as it is, and the relationship between the UK and USA will continue despite the current incumbents. The likes of Sadiq Khan and his virtue signalling aren’t helpful, the government (Boris and the PM) need to make this clear and offer the president a visit.

    Khan is just following the wishes of Londoners, my friend. Or maybe that's the wrong approach - maybe we need to over-ride what the plebs want I guess? But remember that is a two-way street.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,494
    edited January 12

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duterte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    Both Macron and Trudeau have also very publicly established that they are not afraid to be critical of Trump and have demonstrated their independence. That has given them the freedom domestically to engage with the US president. May’s timidity makes it much harder for her to do the same.

    May has now criticised Trump over Jerusalem and Britain First while France has got ahead of us for a Trump visit
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 12,921
    HYUFD said:

    The main job of the next US President will be to repair all the bridges that Trump has broken. I'd expect the UK to be one of the first on the list.


    Oprah will be seeing the Queen (God willing) in early Feb 2021.
    Or Boris will be visiting Trump
    The White House doesn't have a room big enough for those two egos.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 25,655
    Almost 100 unprosecuted cases against sex attacker John Worboys will not be reviewed by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), it has emerged.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-42662297
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
  • Nixon was a clever chap.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 15,460

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duterte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    I am against a visit. It is not worth the security nightmare and massive, and I mean massive, police costs.
    Surely their brand new embassy has a roof that can take the weight of one of their Marine One helicopters?

    I’m always in awe of the route the PM takes from Heathrow or Northolt into town. Lots of traffic lights sequenced by the convoy, that travels on both sides of the road and are gone before you realised why you got stopped. Very efficient.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,494
    edited January 12

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    Utter rubbish, apart from Hirohito all of them were Presidents, not monarchs and a British President would have had to meet them just the same as all French Presidents did despite your liberal republican stirring
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,415

    Almost 100 unprosecuted cases against sex attacker John Worboys will not be reviewed by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), it has emerged.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-42662297

    Surely taxi time for Alison Saunders.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 7,502
    Trump cares about Trump. No-one else. His narcissism is only matched by his desire to manipulate and beat people.

    I think it's high risk to align UK goals with that. The question is can you ignore him or do you have to confront him

    History points to the latter.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,494

    HYUFD said:

    The main job of the next US President will be to repair all the bridges that Trump has broken. I'd expect the UK to be one of the first on the list.


    Oprah will be seeing the Queen (God willing) in early Feb 2021.
    Or Boris will be visiting Trump
    The White House doesn't have a room big enough for those two egos.
    I am sure the lawn would suffice
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 40,050
    Mr. Urquhart, at this rate they'll be nicknamed the Criminal Protection Service.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 15,460

    Almost 100 unprosecuted cases against sex attacker John Worboys will not be reviewed by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), it has emerged.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-42662297

    Feeling sorry for the minister who’s going to have to explain that decision to the select committee.

    DPP and Parole Board execs need to justify to Parliament why they think it’s safe to release this guy.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 5,442
    ... that helped cause his downfall.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 8,359

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duterte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    Both Macron and Trudeau have also very publicly established that they are not afraid to be critical of Trump and have demonstrated their independence. That has given them the freedom domestically to engage with the US president. May’s timidity makes it much harder for her to do the same.

    There's that, but also her strategic position makes it much harder for her to do the same. The British voters decided to rip up most of their trade agreements, she unwisely put herself on an exceedingly tight timetable to do this, and now she needs favours from governments all over the world, especially the bigger countries. Trump is petty and vindictive, like it or not she wouldn't be sensible to needlessly piss him off.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 5,442
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    Utter rubbish, apart from Hirohito all of them were Presidents, not monarchs and a British President would have had to meet them just the same as all French Presidents did despite your liberal republican stirring
    For a change, I have to agree with you and disagree with TSE.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 37,494
    edited January 12

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    Utter rubbish, apart from Hirohito all of them were Presidents, not monarchs and a British President would have had to meet them just the same as all French Presidents did despite your liberal republican stirring
    For a change, I have to agree with you and disagree with TSE.
    One for the file, what TSE does during the loyal toast at Tory dinners I dread to think!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 16,526
    edited January 12

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    The popinjays seem to be sticking together on this one.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 7,502
    edited January 12
    I thought the Queen was utterly charming in this piece today.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-42654058/coronation-memories-queen-s-advice-on-wearing-a-crown

    I really wish we could hear what she really thinks and dispense with the toadies and protocols that place a barrier around her.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 61,036
    edited January 12
    TGOHF said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    The popinjays seem to be sticking together on this one.
    At least my pin number isn't 1690.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 15,460
    MaxPB said:

    Almost 100 unprosecuted cases against sex attacker John Worboys will not be reviewed by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), it has emerged.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-42662297

    Surely taxi time for Alison Saunders.
    Yep. She needs to review the evidence as a minimum.

    A lot of the complaints we know are going to be difficult to prosecute (his MO was Rohypnol and similar drugs) but at the time it was thought that the specimen charges would be enough to lock him away for life. To say that the CPS won’t even review the evidence - when requested by the victims - needs to be explained.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 61,036
    edited January 12
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Almost 100 unprosecuted cases against sex attacker John Worboys will not be reviewed by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), it has emerged.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-42662297

    Surely taxi time for Alison Saunders.
    Yep. She needs to review the evidence as a minimum.

    A lot of the complaints we know are going to be difficult to prosecute (his MO was Rohypnol and similar drugs) but at the time it was thought that the specimen charges would be enough to lock him away for life. To say that the CPS won’t even review the evidence - when requested by the victims - needs to be explained.
    Because they've already been reviewed and it was decided most of them didn't meet the charging/evidential test.

    I saw a figure of 14 mentioned the other day.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 779
    edited January 12
    I found the piece very long-winded. Many words to ask what price we would be willing to pay to disengage with such an economic powerhouse.

    Which brings us straight to Brexit - where we've made exactly that decision against the economic grain and decided other factors such as culture, integration and sovereignty were more important. Perhaps that might embolden the Government to be straight about the Trump administration? If only Boris was directing his fire across the pond not across the Thames.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 9,947
    RobD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    We are losing money left, right and centre....time to get a new masthead...I'm blown away, definitely going to sub to them now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jan/12/guardian-unveils-new-masthead-tabloid-launch-newspaper-online-apps

    I hate that sort of negativity. Did you not read that "The new design is the result of months of thought, creativity and vision by a team of talented designers and senior editors"?
    MONTHS....Jesus Christ...Meetings about meetings about meetings about a new font and using black rather than white colour.

    I could never work in the creative industries!
    Is it even a new font? Looks like they just swapped the colours. At least they spelt it correctly :p
    Professor Parkinson strikes again!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 10,597

    TGOHF said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    The popinjays seem to be sticking together on this one.
    At least my pin number isn't 1690.
    How very dare you.
    After seeing T2 Harry changed his pin to 1872.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 26,197

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duterte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    Both Macron and Trudeau have also very publicly established that they are not afraid to be critical of Trump and have demonstrated their independence. That has given them the freedom domestically to engage with the US president. May’s timidity makes it much harder for her to do the same.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/30/theresa-may-not-afraid-to-criticise-donald-trump
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 26,197
    HYUFD said:

    Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    The visit was arranged well before either men were in Office...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 15,460
    edited January 12

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Almost 100 unprosecuted cases against sex attacker John Worboys will not be reviewed by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), it has emerged.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-42662297

    Surely taxi time for Alison Saunders.
    Yep. She needs to review the evidence as a minimum.

    A lot of the complaints we know are going to be difficult to prosecute (his MO was Rohypnol and similar drugs) but at the time it was thought that the specimen charges would be enough to lock him away for life. To say that the CPS won’t even review the evidence - when requested by the victims - needs to be explained.
    Because they've already been reviewed and it was decided most of them didn't meet the charging/evidential test.

    I saw a figure of 14 mentioned the other day.
    Most of them. So some did meet the test?

    I know you’re a lawyer, and want to defend lawyers, but this strikes me as a huge miscarriage of justice for his victims.

    A taxi driver (in a position of trust) convicted of 19 specimen charges of rape and sexual assault, and with a hundred more complaints on file, sentenced aged 51 to life imprisonment, would be surprised to be out a decade later. I’d suggest that his victims were expecting two decades in the big house as a minimum.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 1,925
    Scott_P said:
    LOL!

    This is the closest we will get to in seeing this moron in this country!
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Almost 100 unprosecuted cases against sex attacker John Worboys will not be reviewed by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), it has emerged.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-42662297

    Surely taxi time for Alison Saunders.
    Yep. She needs to review the evidence as a minimum.

    A lot of the complaints we know are going to be difficult to prosecute (his MO was Rohypnol and similar drugs) but at the time it was thought that the specimen charges would be enough to lock him away for life. To say that the CPS won’t even review the evidence - when requested by the victims - needs to be explained.
    Because they've already been reviewed and it was decided most of them didn't meet the charging/evidential test.

    I saw a figure of 14 mentioned the other day.
    Most of them. So some did meet the test?

    I know you’re a lawyer, and want to defend lawyers, but this strikes me as a huge miscarriage of justice for his victims.

    A taxi driver (in a position of trust) convicted of 19 specimen charges of rape and sexual assault, and with a hundred more complaints on file, sentenced aged 51 to life imprisonment, would be surprised to be out a decade later. I’d suggest that his victims were expecting two decades in the big house as a minimum.
    These are the evidential test.

    The charging decision is based on other factors.

    One of the articles said because of drunk/drugged up state of some the victims, I don’t think they’d get convictions.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,922
    murali_s said:

    Scott_P said:
    LOL!

    This is the closest we will get to in seeing this moron in this country!
    Wasn't he in the UK just before his election?
  • Is the author on a syllables per word rate?

    puffed up pompous popinjay IMO
  • HHemmeligHHemmelig Posts: 347

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    Your family hasn't even been in this country as long as HM has been on the throne. And she was kind enough to welcome your ancestors to immigrate here. People like you should not be allowed to agitate to remove a monarchy that has served the indigenous people of this country very well for many hundreds of years.

    (if you insist on doing a poundshop impression of SeanT don't be surprised if others do the same)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,097
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:
    Because they've already been reviewed and it was decided most of them didn't meet the charging/evidential test.

    I saw a figure of 14 mentioned the other day.
    Most of them. So some did meet the test?

    I know you’re a lawyer, and want to defend lawyers, but this strikes me as a huge miscarriage of justice for his victims.

    A taxi driver (in a position of trust) convicted of 19 specimen charges of rape and sexual assault, and with a hundred more complaints on file, sentenced aged 51 to life imprisonment, would be surprised to be out a decade later. I’d suggest that his victims were expecting two decades in the big house as a minimum.

    I am not a fan of the CPS. My experience of them has been that they are utterly woeful. But, you are confusing three issues, with great respect (as we lawyers like to say - :) )

    1. Was the sentence initially given long enough. Or rather the minimum term the judge said he should serve: 8 years. This was, I am told, in accordance with the rules then in place. To me, 8 years seems far too low. I think the sentence should have been challenged at the time but it is now too late.

    2. Is it now safe to release him? This is the issue for the Parole Board and is the critical one. Unfortunately they cannot, by law, release details of why they have come to the decision they have. This ought to be changed. The other question is whether parole officers will really be able to keep an eye on him and whether sufficient conditions have been placed on him.

    3. Should he be charged with additional offences? Two tests here: is there sufficient evidence which gives a better than evens chance of a conviction and is it in the public interest for him to be prosecuted. The latter is easy to answer. The former may be more difficult. It's not just the forensic or physical evidence; it's also the evidence from victims which will now be years old. Those factors make it a more finely judged decision than simply saying: justice for the victims etc. Remember: the burden of proof is on the prosecution and the standard is rightly high. Just because the victims say they were attacked is not enough for a conviction. There may also be the question of whether he can now expect to receive a fair trial given all the publicity.

    I would certainly have thought it made sense for the CPS to review the evidence again, with fresh eyes. But just because it may have been the wrong decision for the then DPP not to prosecute him on additional charges all those years does not necessarily make it the right decision now to charge him.
  • HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    Your family hasn't even been in this country as long as HM has been on the throne. And she was kind enough to welcome your ancestors to immigrate here. People like you should not be allowed to agitate to remove a monarchy that has served the indigenous people of this country very well for many hundreds of years.

    (if you insist on doing a poundshop impression of SeanT don't be surprised if others do the same)
    That’s just payback for invading India and things like the Jallianwala Bagh massacre.

    Nowt to do with the Queen being nice.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 6,276

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Almost 100 unprosecuted cases against sex attacker John Worboys will not be reviewed by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), it has emerged.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-42662297

    Surely taxi time for Alison Saunders.
    Yep. She needs to review the evidence as a minimum.

    A lot of the complaints we know are going to be difficult to prosecute (his MO was Rohypnol and similar drugs) but at the time it was thought that the specimen charges would be enough to lock him away for life. To say that the CPS won’t even review the evidence - when requested by the victims - needs to be explained.
    Because they've already been reviewed and it was decided most of them didn't meet the charging/evidential test.

    I saw a figure of 14 mentioned the other day.
    Which should mean I is remitted to police for evidence gathering, now that we know that it would make a difference to outcomes.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,202

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duterte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    Both Macron and Trudeau have also very publicly established that they are not afraid to be critical of Trump and have demonstrated their independence. That has given them the freedom domestically to engage with the US president. May’s timidity makes it much harder for her to do the same.

    She’s done it a couple of times
  • Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Almost 100 unprosecuted cases against sex attacker John Worboys will not be reviewed by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), it has emerged.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-42662297

    Surely taxi time for Alison Saunders.
    Yep. She needs to review the evidence as a minimum.

    A lot of the complaints we know are going to be difficult to prosecute (his MO was Rohypnol and similar drugs) but at the time it was thought that the specimen charges would be enough to lock him away for life. To say that the CPS won’t even review the evidence - when requested by the victims - needs to be explained.
    Because they've already been reviewed and it was decided most of them didn't meet the charging/evidential test.

    I saw a figure of 14 mentioned the other day.
    Which should mean I is remitted to police for evidence gathering, now that we know that it would make a difference to outcomes.
    Is it possible for John Worboys to get a fair trial now ?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 16,526

    TGOHF said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    The popinjays seem to be sticking together on this one.
    At least my pin number isn't 1690.
    Bobby Sands PIN number was 8080...

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 5,386

    The main job of the next US President will be to repair all the bridges that Trump has broken. I'd expect the UK to be one of the first on the list.

    Oprah will be seeing the Queen (God willing) in early Feb 2021.
    Oprah would make a great Queen. Probably better than president. She can talk to anyone, has the empathy and her foibles would seem charming.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 9,947
    edited January 12
    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    Your family hasn't even been in this country as long as HM has been on the throne. And she was kind enough to welcome your ancestors to immigrate here. People like you should not be allowed to agitate to remove a monarchy that has served the indigenous people of this country very well for many hundreds of years.

    (if you insist on doing a poundshop impression of SeanT don't be surprised if others do the same)
    I’m not quite sure how ‘the indigenous people of this country' is defined. I can probably trace virtually all my ancestors on one side, and around half of them on the other, to the people who were here when the Romans came, but I believe that there were others who were here even earlier.
    So, who are these indigenes?
    And I’d quite like to see a republic too, if it’s all the same to you!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 17,879
    Trump is an arse but he is an arse in a position of considerable power and influence who can have adverse effects on us. It is the job of the government of the day to deal with arses if that is in the national interest. Those in non governmental positions, such as the Mayor of London, are free to indulge themselves in a way that Ministers are not although I think inviting him to reflect on the wisdom of doing so is entirely appropriate.

    It is not in our interests to get involved in spats with Trump, however tempting it may be. Sometimes, as with the UN resolution on Jerusalem, we may feel we have no alternative to expressly and publically disagree with him but it is generally in our interests to keep these occasions to a minimum.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 6,276

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Almost 100 unprosecuted cases against sex attacker John Worboys will not be reviewed by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), it has emerged.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-42662297

    Surely taxi time for Alison Saunders.
    Yep. She needs to review the evidence as a minimum.

    A lot of the complaints we know are going to be difficult to prosecute (his MO was Rohypnol and similar drugs) but at the time it was thought that the specimen charges would be enough to lock him away for life. To say that the CPS won’t even review the evidence - when requested by the victims - needs to be explained.
    Because they've already been reviewed and it was decided most of them didn't meet the charging/evidential test.

    I saw a figure of 14 mentioned the other day.
    Which should mean I is remitted to police for evidence gathering, now that we know that it would make a difference to outcomes.
    Is it possible for John Worboys to get a fair trial now ?
    Yes.

    You would be surprised at how little of any of this is part of the public consciousness.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 9,947

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Almost 100 unprosecuted cases against sex attacker John Worboys will not be reviewed by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), it has emerged.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-42662297

    Surely taxi time for Alison Saunders.
    Yep. She needs to review the evidence as a minimum.

    A lot of the complaints we know are going to be difficult to prosecute (his MO was Rohypnol and similar drugs) but at the time it was thought that the specimen charges would be enough to lock him away for life. To say that the CPS won’t even review the evidence - when requested by the victims - needs to be explained.
    Because they've already been reviewed and it was decided most of them didn't meet the charging/evidential test.

    I saw a figure of 14 mentioned the other day.
    Which should mean I is remitted to police for evidence gathering, now that we know that it would make a difference to outcomes.
    Is it possible for John Worboys to get a fair trial now ?
    Rolf Harris went through the courts a second time IIRC and was found not guilty after sttrenous efforts by the prosecution to obtain a conviction.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 7,195
    edited January 12
    Extraordinary allegations of racist bullying at Chelsea FC in the 1990s. Horrific.

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jan/12/graham-rix-gwyn-williams-accused-racism-bullying-chelsea
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 1,799
    Mr Corbyn has provided leadership and a cool head in this matter,as he has historically shown within the Labour party on foreign policy, and has invited Mr Trump to visit Finsbury Park mosque so he can see there are no "no-go" areas in the UK.I assume the invitation is still open and I hope Mr Trump accepts Mr Corbyn's kind invitation.As a bonus for Mr Trump,they could then visit Mr Corbyn's allotment to get to know each other,share jam and de-escalate tension.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 9,947

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Almost 100 unprosecuted cases against sex attacker John Worboys will not be reviewed by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), it has emerged.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-42662297

    Surely taxi time for Alison Saunders.
    Yep. She needs to review the evidence as a minimum.

    A lot of the complaints we know are going to be difficult to prosecute (his MO was Rohypnol and similar drugs) but at the time it was thought that the specimen charges would be enough to lock him away for life. To say that the CPS won’t even review the evidence - when requested by the victims - needs to be explained.
    Because they've already been reviewed and it was decided most of them didn't meet the charging/evidential test.

    I saw a figure of 14 mentioned the other day.
    Which should mean I is remitted to police for evidence gathering, now that we know that it would make a difference to outcomes.
    Is it possible for John Worboys to get a fair trial now ?
    Rolf Harris went through the courts a second time IIRC and was found not guilty after sttrenous efforts by the prosecution to obtain a conviction.
    To be accurate he wasn’t found not guilty, the jury failed to agree.Twice.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 275
    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    The popinjays seem to be sticking together on this one.
    At least my pin number isn't 1690.
    Bobby Sands PIN number was 8080...

    Is this you?

  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 2,539

    Mr Corbyn has provided leadership and a cool head in this matter,as he has historically shown within the Labour party on foreign policy, and has invited Mr Trump to visit Finsbury Park mosque so he can see there are no "no-go" areas in the UK.I assume the invitation is still open and I hope Mr Trump accepts Mr Corbyn's kind invitation.As a bonus for Mr Trump,they could then visit Mr Corbyn's allotment to get to know each other,share jam and de-escalate tension.

    They could both go to a nice vegetarian restaurant in London.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 30,922
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duterte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    I am against a visit. It is not worth the security nightmare and massive, and I mean massive, police costs.
    Surely their brand new embassy has a roof that can take the weight of one of their Marine One helicopters?

    I’m always in awe of the route the PM takes from Heathrow or Northolt into town. Lots of traffic lights sequenced by the convoy, that travels on both sides of the road and are gone before you realised why you got stopped. Very efficient.
    According to the Telegraph article, the new embassy doesnt have a helipad on the roof. Instead, they’ve got a bunch of solar panels.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 275

    Extraordinary allegations of racist bullying at Chelsea FC in the 1990s. Horrific.

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jan/12/graham-rix-gwyn-williams-accused-racism-bullying-chelsea

    The Glasgow Rangers of the South.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 9,947
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duterte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    I am against a visit. It is not worth the security nightmare and massive, and I mean massive, police costs.
    Surely their brand new embassy has a roof that can take the weight of one of their Marine One helicopters?

    I’m always in awe of the route the PM takes from Heathrow or Northolt into town. Lots of traffic lights sequenced by the convoy, that travels on both sides of the road and are gone before you realised why you got stopped. Very efficient.
    According to the Telegraph article, the new embassy doesnt have a helipad on the roof. Instead, they’ve got a bunch of solar panels.
    Used, long, long long ago when Oxford St was the start of the A40, to be able to that along there.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 2,539

    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    Your family hasn't even been in this country as long as HM has been on the throne. And she was kind enough to welcome your ancestors to immigrate here. People like you should not be allowed to agitate to remove a monarchy that has served the indigenous people of this country very well for many hundreds of years.

    (if you insist on doing a poundshop impression of SeanT don't be surprised if others do the same)
    I’m not quite sure how ‘the indigenous people of this country' is defined. I can probably trace virtually all my ancestors on one side, and around half of them on the other, to the people who were here when the Romans came, but I believe that there were others who were here even earlier.
    So, who are these indigenes?
    And I’d quite like to see a republic too, if it’s all the same to you!
    Fine by me , born to be head of state is anachronism in a mature democratic state.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 18,051
    More attention for Nigel Farage today, but this time I doubt he'll be enjoying it:

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,202
    Yorkcity said:

    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    Your family hasn't even been in this country as long as HM has been on the throne. And she was kind enough to welcome your ancestors to immigrate here. People like you should not be allowed to agitate to remove a monarchy that has served the indigenous people of this country very well for many hundreds of years.

    (if you insist on doing a poundshop impression of SeanT don't be surprised if others do the same)
    I’m not quite sure how ‘the indigenous people of this country' is defined. I can probably trace virtually all my ancestors on one side, and around half of them on the other, to the people who were here when the Romans came, but I believe that there were others who were here even earlier.
    So, who are these indigenes?
    And I’d quite like to see a republic too, if it’s all the same to you!
    Fine by me , born to be head of state is anachronism in a mature democratic state.
    It may be anachronistic but it works pretty well. The Monarch can be a unifying figure that a politician can not.

    Head of Government is what matters. Head of State is an ornament
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 40,050
    Mr. Charles, quite.
  • Charles said:

    Yorkcity said:

    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    Your family hasn't even been in this country as long as HM has been on the throne. And she was kind enough to welcome your ancestors to immigrate here. People like you should not be allowed to agitate to remove a monarchy that has served the indigenous people of this country very well for many hundreds of years.

    (if you insist on doing a poundshop impression of SeanT don't be surprised if others do the same)
    I’m not quite sure how ‘the indigenous people of this country' is defined. I can probably trace virtually all my ancestors on one side, and around half of them on the other, to the people who were here when the Romans came, but I believe that there were others who were here even earlier.
    So, who are these indigenes?
    And I’d quite like to see a republic too, if it’s all the same to you!
    Fine by me , born to be head of state is anachronism in a mature democratic state.
    It may be anachronistic but it works pretty well. The Monarch can be a unifying figure that a politician can not.

    Head of Government is what matters. Head of State is an ornament
    You really think King George VII really is going to be a unifying figure ?
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 2,539
    Charles said:

    Yorkcity said:

    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    Your family hasn't even been in this country as long as HM has been on the throne. And she was kind enough to welcome your ancestors to immigrate here. People like you should not be allowed to agitate to remove a monarchy that has served the indigenous people of this country very well for many hundreds of years.

    (if you insist on doing a poundshop impression of SeanT don't be surprised if others do the same)
    I’m not quite sure how ‘the indigenous people of this country' is defined. I can probably trace virtually all my ancestors on one side, and around half of them on the other, to the people who were here when the Romans came, but I believe that there were others who were here even earlier.
    So, who are these indigenes?
    And I’d quite like to see a republic too, if it’s all the same to you!
    Fine by me , born to be head of state is anachronism in a mature democratic state.
    It may be anachronistic but it works pretty well. The Monarch can be a unifying figure that a politician can not.

    Head of Government is what matters. Head of State is an ornament
    It has worked well with this Queen , not always the case.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 40,050
    Mr. City, the PM isn't always terrible good. That isn't a reason to abolish the position.
  • Mr. City, the PM isn't always terrible good. That isn't a reason to abolish the position.

    But we can vote the duff PM out.

    Tell me how we get rid of a duff Monarch?

    I vote to take back control from our unelected rulers.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,202

    Charles said:

    Yorkcity said:

    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    Your family hasn't even been in this country as long as HM has been on the throne. And she was kind enough to welcome your ancestors to immigrate here. People like you should not be allowed to agitate to remove a monarchy that has served the indigenous people of this country very well for many hundreds of years.

    (if you insist on doing a poundshop impression of SeanT don't be surprised if others do the same)
    I’m not quite sure how ‘the indigenous people of this country' is defined. I can probably trace virtually all my ancestors on one side, and around half of them on the other, to the people who were here when the Romans came, but I believe that there were others who were here even earlier.
    So, who are these indigenes?
    And I’d quite like to see a republic too, if it’s all the same to you!
    Fine by me , born to be head of state is anachronism in a mature democratic state.
    It may be anachronistic but it works pretty well. The Monarch can be a unifying figure that a politician can not.

    Head of Government is what matters. Head of State is an ornament
    You really think King George VII really is going to be a unifying figure ?
    Yes. He’s stopped saying silly things. People who still hate him for divorcing a someone who has been dead for 20 years are a small minority
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 2,539

    Mr. City, the PM isn't always terrible good. That isn't a reason to abolish the position.

    Yes but if the head of state is not suitable you can not vote them out of that position.
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Yorkcity said:

    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    Your family hasn't even been in this country as long as HM has been on the throne. And she was kind enough to welcome your ancestors to immigrate here. People like you should not be allowed to agitate to remove a monarchy that has served the indigenous people of this country very well for many hundreds of years.

    (if you insist on doing a poundshop impression of SeanT don't be surprised if others do the same)
    I’m not quite sure how ‘the indigenous people of this country' is defined. I can probably trace virtually all my ancestors on one side, and around half of them on the other, to the people who were here when the Romans came, but I believe that there were others who were here even earlier.
    So, who are these indigenes?
    And I’d quite like to see a republic too, if it’s all the same to you!
    Fine by me , born to be head of state is anachronism in a mature democratic state.
    It may be anachronistic but it works pretty well. The Monarch can be a unifying figure that a politician can not.

    Head of Government is what matters. Head of State is an ornament
    You really think King George VII really is going to be a unifying figure ?
    Yes. He’s stopped saying silly things. People who still hate him for divorcing a someone who has been dead for 20 years are a small minority
    Those black spider memos seem to suspect indicate otherwise.

    He also believes in homeopathy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,025
    edited January 12
    The vertiginous rise

    Alright, good start, you've already got my attention.
    Yorkcity said:

    Charles said:

    Yorkcity said:

    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    Your e)
    I’m not quite sure how ‘the indigenous people of this country' is defined. I can probably trace virtually all my ancestors on one side, and around half of them on the other, to the people who were here when the Romans came, but I believe that there were others who were here even earlier.
    So, who are these indigenes?
    And I’d quite like to see a republic too, if it’s all the same to you!
    Fine by me , born to be head of state is anachronism in a mature democratic state.
    It may be anachronistic but it works pretty well. The Monarch can be a unifying figure that a politician can not.

    Head of Government is what matters. Head of State is an ornament
    It has worked well with this Queen , not always the case.
    And until it doesn't work well, there's no harm (previous instances which didn't work well were resolved, one way or another, hence the system being retained). When it doesn't work well, you can be damn sure there will be a quick reaction. It is technically possible for royal assent to be refused, apparently, but if it ever was you can be damn sure that possibility would be removed, as it has in some other places I believe. If the person in the role stepped out of line from what is expected and permitted, feeling would turn against the system quickly because we all know the role is an anachronism. Who would side with a royal trying to rule, not just reign, over elected officials?

    That battle was won a long time ago. Republicans may well go all the way in the future, but anyone crying about the system in a very histrionic fashion is clearly just having some fun pitching for a reaction.
  • HHemmeligHHemmelig Posts: 347

    Mr. City, the PM isn't always terrible good. That isn't a reason to abolish the position.

    But we can vote the duff PM out.

    Tell me how we get rid of a duff Monarch?

    I vote to take back control from our unelected rulers.
    I vote you be deported to India for treasonous postings....they have a very unifying elected head of state I hear.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 275

    Charles said:

    Yorkcity said:

    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    Your family hasn't even been in this country as long as HM has been on the throne. And she was kind enough to welcome your ancestors to immigrate here. People like you should not be allowed to agitate to remove a monarchy that has served the indigenous people of this country very well for many hundreds of years.

    (if you insist on doing a poundshop impression of SeanT don't be surprised if others do the same)
    I’m not quite sure how ‘the indigenous people of this country' is defined. I can probably trace virtually all my ancestors on one side, and around half of them on the other, to the people who were here when the Romans came, but I believe that there were others who were here even earlier.
    So, who are these indigenes?
    And I’d quite like to see a republic too, if it’s all the same to you!
    Fine by me , born to be head of state is anachronism in a mature democratic state.
    It may be anachronistic but it works pretty well. The Monarch can be a unifying figure that a politician can not.

    Head of Government is what matters. Head of State is an ornament
    You really think King George VII really is going to be a unifying figure ?
    At four years of age is he already exhibiting divisive tendencies??
  • Anazina said:

    Charles said:

    Yorkcity said:

    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    Your family hasn't even been in this country as long as HM has been on the throne. And she was kind enough to welcome your ancestors to immigrate here. People like you should not be allowed to agitate to remove a monarchy that has served the indigenous people of this country very well for many hundreds of years.

    (if you insist on doing a poundshop impression of SeanT don't be surprised if others do the same)
    I’m not quite sure how ‘the indigenous people of this country' is defined. I can probably trace virtually all my ancestors on one side, and around half of them on the other, to the people who were here when the Romans came, but I believe that there were others who were here even earlier.
    So, who are these indigenes?
    And I’d quite like to see a republic too, if it’s all the same to you!
    Fine by me , born to be head of state is anachronism in a mature democratic state.
    It may be anachronistic but it works pretty well. The Monarch can be a unifying figure that a politician can not.

    Head of Government is what matters. Head of State is an ornament
    You really think King George VII really is going to be a unifying figure ?
    At four years of age is he already exhibiting divisive tendencies??
    George is the Regnal name that Charles is thinking of using.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 4,228
    I'd like to think there is more to HMQ than meets the eye, and when PMs go to see her it's rather like Neo visiting the Oracle. Sadly not the case, probably.

    So if we don't like heredity, and we don't like overachieving political weasels, and the position doesn't require any talents that a motorised waxwork wouldn't have, surely selection by lot is the answer? I can't think of anything more democratic, fair and leveling, nor more likely to command popular support than each and every citizen being able to look at the monarch and think "That could have been me, I was a contender!"
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,142
    HHemmelig said:

    Mr. City, the PM isn't always terrible good. That isn't a reason to abolish the position.

    But we can vote the duff PM out.

    Tell me how we get rid of a duff Monarch?

    I vote to take back control from our unelected rulers.
    I vote you be deported to India for treasonous postings....they have a very unifying elected head of state I hear.
    The chap in the USA seems to have the whole country behind him too!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 33,851
    @SkyNewsBreak: Reuters: U.S. ambassador to Panama has written a letter to the State Department announcing his resignation saying he resigns on principle and can no longer serve the Trump administration
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 275
    Yorkcity said:

    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    Your family hasn't even been in this country as long as HM has been on the throne. And she was kind enough to welcome your ancestors to immigrate here. People like you should not be allowed to agitate to remove a monarchy that has served the indigenous people of this country very well for many hundreds of years.

    (if you insist on doing a poundshop impression of SeanT don't be surprised if others do the same)
    I’m not quite sure how ‘the indigenous people of this country' is defined. I can probably trace virtually all my ancestors on one side, and around half of them on the other, to the people who were here when the Romans came, but I believe that there were others who were here even earlier.
    So, who are these indigenes?
    And I’d quite like to see a republic too, if it’s all the same to you!
    Fine by me , born to be head of state is anachronism in a mature democratic state.
    It is also cruel. I pity the royal family. Born into the public glare, a privacy-free goldfish bowl of misery. The children are paraded around like show ponies for the entertainment of weirdo royal-watchers from age three.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 275

    Anazina said:

    Charles said:

    Yorkcity said:

    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump's only true international supporters are Netanyahu, Orban and maybe the Polish government and President Duharte of the Philippines. However if even Trudeau and Macron can engage with Trump and in Macron's case roll out the red carpet for him on his visit to Paris, then so can we

    We have much higher standards than the French, the French collaborate with anyone.

    Why do you hate the Queen so much that you’d inflict Donald Trump on her?
    The Queen has met Ceaucescu, Nixon, George W Bush, Putin, Mugabe and Hirihito. I am sure she can meet Trump
    What an awful woman the Queen is, is there a fascist/dictator she doesn't like.

    If she was a force for good she'd had refused to meet most of those.

    #AbolishTheMonarchy
    Your family hasn't even been in this country as long as HM has been on the throne. And she was kind enough to welcome your ancestors to immigrate here. People like you should not be allowed to agitate to remove a monarchy that has served the indigenous people of this country very well for many hundreds of years.

    (if you insist on doing a poundshop impression of SeanT don't be surprised if others do the same)
    I’m not quite sure how ‘the indigenous people of this country' is defined. I can probably trace virtually all my ancestors on one side, and around half of them on the other, to the people who were here when the Romans came, but I believe that there were others who were here even earlier.
    So, who are these indigenes?
    And I’d quite like to see a republic too, if it’s all the same to you!
    Fine by me , born to be head of state is anachronism in a mature democratic state.
    It may be anachronistic but it works pretty well. The Monarch can be a unifying figure that a politician can not.

    Head of Government is what matters. Head of State is an ornament
    You really think King George VII really is going to be a unifying figure ?
    At four years of age is he already exhibiting divisive tendencies??
    George is the Regnal name that Charles is thinking of using.
    Oh. Why not just use Charles??
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 275
    Ishmael_Z said:

    I'd like to think there is more to HMQ than meets the eye, and when PMs go to see her it's rather like Neo visiting the Oracle. Sadly not the case, probably.

    So if we don't like heredity, and we don't like overachieving political weasels, and the position doesn't require any talents that a motorised waxwork wouldn't have, surely selection by lot is the answer? I can't think of anything more democratic, fair and leveling, nor more likely to command popular support than each and every citizen being able to look at the monarch and think "That could have been me, I was a contender!"

    Ishmael_Z said:

    I'd like to think there is more to HMQ than meets the eye, and when PMs go to see her it's rather like Neo visiting the Oracle. Sadly not the case, probably.

    So if we don't like heredity, and we don't like overachieving political weasels, and the position doesn't require any talents that a motorised waxwork wouldn't have, surely selection by lot is the answer? I can't think of anything more democratic, fair and leveling, nor more likely to command popular support than each and every citizen being able to look at the monarch and think "That could have been me, I was a contender!"

    Thus recreating the system we already have, albeit with a wider gene pool.
This discussion has been closed.