Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB / Polling Matters podcast: How favourable are Brits tow

SystemSystem Posts: 3,967
edited January 26 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB / Polling Matters podcast: How favourable are Brits towards different countries and how old is ‘too old’ to be PM?

On this week’s podcast Keiran and Leo look at some polling by Opinium that asks how favourable or unfavourable the British public is towards the following countries with some interesting differences by Brexit vote and age.  A summary of the results can be found below:

Read the full story here


«134

Comments

  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,292
    First :)
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 8,392
    Good to see none of them add up to more than 75%, showing there's a healthy number of people out there responding "Favourable or unfavourable to an entire country of millions of people um wtf"
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 26,638
    Second! Like Remain, Corbyn & Australia. So much for the “Britain stuck in WWII mindset” narrative...
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 227
    I've been thinking about the age thing in regards to Corbyn and this seems like a good topic to mention it.

    Corbyn could fall to ill health or death, he has had however a fairly privileged start to his life and then a pretty good standard of living all the way through. Combine this with a very healthy lifestyle is probably one of the perfect candidates in terms of chances of keeping on going a lot longer than others.

    Corbyn could decide he is too old, he doesn't have the energy and wants to go back to his garden. Without a fairly significant turnaround in circumstances this seems incredibly unlikely. Imagine if your life cause was politics, you cared about your politics beliefs so deeply you divorced the mother of your children because of them. You had fought your case, mostly failing for decades when out of nowhere a small opening appears. Within then the space of a couple of years you are the figurehead pushing your politics into the mainstream, a huge wave of excitement builds around you and the movement you are now leading, young people chant your name and for the first time in decades your political views have a chance of leading the country.

    Can anybody in that situation imagine getting a bit tired of it all and packing it in?

    The idea sounds more like wishful thinking than a realistic prospect.

    About to listen to the podcast, usually enjoy them.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 2,689
    Why England will continue to struggle to win major championships...

    When they’re good, they’re very very good, when they’re bad they’re horrendous.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 16,097
    alex. said:

    Why England will continue to struggle to win major championships...

    When they’re good, they’re very very good, when they’re bad they’re horrendous.

    At least the crap performance comes after we won the series though.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 22,864
    France is far too high in that list.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 2,689
    edited January 26

    France is far too high in that list.

    Wonder how the results would change if you replaced the countries with the people. New Zealanders, Australians, French, Americans etc
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,543

    France is far too high in that list.

    France is close behind Spain as number two holiday destination for the British, and is number one for holiday visits to the UK.
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 1,684
    order order's "Tory MP declined to attend a party" story really is quite the weakest of weak gruel, isn't it?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,095

    France is far too high in that list.

    Although to be fair to those asked, France has more unfavourables than Germany.

    Germany, that we fought two World Wars against in the last century....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,095
    Expensive joke eh, Mr. Humphreys and Mr. Sopel?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42827333
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,190
    TBH I'm surprised Japan's as high as it is. Memories must have died.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,095
    Bloody hell - 4 of our top 6 were out for a duck?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 8,497

    Bloody hell - 4 of our top 6 were out for a duck?

    Their shots were completely quackers.

    I'll get my coat.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,190

    Bloody hell - 4 of our top 6 were out for a duck?

    Aussies haven't batted yet.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 779

    France is far too high in that list.

    Although to be fair to those asked, France has more unfavourables than Germany.

    Germany, that we fought two World Wars against in the last century....

    TBH I'm surprised Japan's as high as it is. Memories must have died.

    It does seem that Britons are, after three quarters of a century, finally no longer viewing countries through the prism of WW2. They have moved on, and it seems that we have done so too, at last.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 16,701

    Bloody hell - 4 of our top 6 were out for a duck?

    Do you have a favourable opinion of Australia this morning?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,190
    Foxy said:

    France is far too high in that list.

    Although to be fair to those asked, France has more unfavourables than Germany.

    Germany, that we fought two World Wars against in the last century....

    TBH I'm surprised Japan's as high as it is. Memories must have died.

    It does seem that Britons are, after three quarters of a century, finally no longer viewing countries through the prism of WW2. They have moved on, and it seems that we have done so too, at last.
    Argentina's still not popular though.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,246
    Good morning all.

    I used to think I hated the French, until I spent more time there. Then I realised I only hate Parisians.
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,094
    The difference between the antipodean scores and those for European countries goes a long way to explain the Brexit result. The British are still fairly neutral on the latter. I guess you'd have to blame both sides for this.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 34,492
    @MattChorley: Hammond blows up truce on Brexit. So who is sent on to the Today programme to explain the government's European policy? The health secretary
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 779
    edited January 26

    Foxy said:

    France is far too high in that list.

    Although to be fair to those asked, France has more unfavourables than Germany.

    Germany, that we fought two World Wars against in the last century....

    TBH I'm surprised Japan's as high as it is. Memories must have died.

    It does seem that Britons are, after three quarters of a century, finally no longer viewing countries through the prism of WW2. They have moved on, and it seems that we have done so too, at last.
    Argentina's still not popular though.
    As well as the Falklands being more recent, there os the 1986 World Cup to feud over.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 5,885
    I am quite favourable towards Iran, apart from the government's dire record on human rights. This is in grounds of culture, having good friends from there, but also for diplomatic realpolitik. Iran is a powerful regional player that wants to do a deal. Saudi Arabia, Russia, Turkey and to some extent Israel aren't necessarily promoting our interest and the peace and stability of the region.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 779
    Scott_P said:

    @MattChorley: Hammond blows up truce on Brexit. So who is sent on to the Today programme to explain the government's European policy? The health secretary

    Interesting tweet by Hunt yesterday on the #BawaGawa case and its implications for junior doctors covering rota gaps:



    It looks as if he is trying to rebuild some bridges.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,286
    If this were a Scottish poll would England be below Russia but above Iran.

    Malc.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 5,885
    edited January 26
    The main takeaway from the table is the very high number of "no opinions" for most countries. For example you would expect at least half the sample to have an opinion about China if they have one about Australia.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,190
    edited January 26
    felix said:

    The difference between the antipodean scores and those for European countries goes a long way to explain the Brexit result. The British are still fairly neutral on the latter. I guess you'd have to blame both sides for this.

    A lot of us have relatives who emigrated to Oz and EnZed to make new lives for themselves, often very successfully. Those 'friends and relatives' who have gone to Spain and Portugal though....

    Edited for FFS
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 11,961
    edited January 26
    Scott_P said:
    Any right thinking patriotic Brit should be furious at the Brexiters for diminishing us. I certainly am.

    Brexiters think it is a huge victory. They are cowards and fools.

    C***s.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,095
    Scott_P said:
    If "Britain's stature on the world stage has diminshed", that of the USA needs an electron microscope - after electing Trump.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,095
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    Any right thinking patriotic Brit should be furious at the Brexiters for diminishing us. I certainly am.

    Brexiters think it is a huge victory. They are cowards and fools.

    C***s.

    Smug and angry is not a good look on most people.

    But you wear it well.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 2,689
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    France is far too high in that list.

    Although to be fair to those asked, France has more unfavourables than Germany.

    Germany, that we fought two World Wars against in the last century....

    TBH I'm surprised Japan's as high as it is. Memories must have died.

    It does seem that Britons are, after three quarters of a century, finally no longer viewing countries through the prism of WW2. They have moved on, and it seems that we have done so too, at last.
    Argentina's still not popular though.
    As well as the Falklands being more recent, there os the 1986 World Cup to feud over.
    And 2002
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 1,637
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    Any right thinking patriotic Brit should be furious at the Brexiters for diminishing us. I certainly am.

    Brexiters think it is a huge victory. They are cowards and fools.

    C***s.

    One might say it’s rather cowardly to have one’s feelings about one’s own country so affected by an article in the New York Times. As for fools, every disastrous prediction about Brexit has been utterly wrong so far. Before you say we haven’t left yet, the Treasury’s predictions of disaster were predicated on the referendum outcome rather than actually leaving.

    I see you can’t even call us Brexiteers. Full marks for compliance with the Remainer style guide.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 20,007
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    Any right thinking patriotic Brit should be furious at the Brexiters for diminishing us. I certainly am.

    Brexiters think it is a huge victory. They are cowards and fools.

    C***s.

    Diddums.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,107

    Scott_P said:
    If "Britain's stature on the world stage has diminshed", that of the USA needs an electron microscope - after electing Trump.
    Apparently our economy has 'sagged', too.

    Oh, wait....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 16,097
    Rule #1 of limited overs cricket, is that you have to use all your overs with the bat.

    197 is the easiest run chase the Aussies have had in a long time. It’s a 50 over match, not a 20/20.
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,094

    felix said:

    The difference between the antipodean scores and those for European countries goes a long way to explain the Brexit result. The British are still fairly neutral on the latter. I guess you'd have to blame both sides for this.

    A lot of us have relatives who emigrated to Oz and EnZed to make new lives for themselves, often very successfully. Those 'friends and relatives' who have gone to Spain and Portugal though....

    Edited for FFS
    Well my relatives back in the UK love my Spanish homes visiting me every year since 2009 way more than I saw them when I lived in London. I have many friends here with similar experiences.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,190
    felix said:

    felix said:

    The difference between the antipodean scores and those for European countries goes a long way to explain the Brexit result. The British are still fairly neutral on the latter. I guess you'd have to blame both sides for this.

    A lot of us have relatives who emigrated to Oz and EnZed to make new lives for themselves, often very successfully. Those 'friends and relatives' who have gone to Spain and Portugal though....

    Edited for FFS
    Well my relatives back in the UK love my Spanish homes visiting me every year since 2009 way more than I saw them when I lived in London. I have many friends here with similar experiences.
    Fair enough; I've met more dodgy Brits in bars in Spain and Portugal than in the Antipodes, though.
    I've probably met more in bars in Thailand, though.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 40,642
    Good morning, everyone.

    I think age is a factor, but more perception than reality. Ming Campbell's younger than Paddy Ashdown, but as leader he came across as decades older. If you're still sharp and seem physically able, I don't think it's a problem for people.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,095
    Mortimer said:

    Scott_P said:
    If "Britain's stature on the world stage has diminshed", that of the USA needs an electron microscope - after electing Trump.
    Apparently our economy has 'sagged', too.

    Oh, wait....
    But then we can't all be lucky enough to live in Trump's powerhouse....
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 265
    edited January 26
    Hammond playing silly buggers again in Davos.

    He needs to spend more time in his garden and with his family. I can't understand how he's still in the post but if Theresa doesn't remove him sharpish then it is her who is going to be the one tending to tulips.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 2,689

    Good morning, everyone.

    I think age is a factor, but more perception than reality. Ming Campbell's younger than Paddy Ashdown, but as leader he came across as decades older. If you're still sharp and seem physically able, I don't think it's a problem for people.

    Not disagreeing overall, but Ashdown was 58 when he left office, Campbell was 65 when he started!
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,002
    edited January 26
    Would like to share a non-political story. For family reasons I need to keep up a good income so I do interpretation and translation on the side from my day job. I was asked to interpret for a Dane who has been blind for 30 years despite no fewer than 40 operations: there is a revolutionary new treatment in Brighton which he was willing to try; the Danish Health Service financed his trip (and my interpretation, as it was critical that his condition and health symptoms were accurately understood, but my role was extremely minor). The operation carried a risk of death and a a further risk that the very limited sense of light and dark that he did have would be lost.He is a brave, philosophical chap with a rich sense of humour (he went joking into the operation (told the anaesthetist that if he could see again he trusted she'd be blonde and under 30...).

    Last night I heard that it had worked and he can see again. It's just wonderful.

    The op, which seems very weird, is described here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteo-odonto-keratoprosthesis

    https://health.howstuffworks.com/medicine/surgeries-procedures/tooth-in-eye-surgery.htm
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,094

    felix said:

    felix said:

    The difference between the antipodean scores and those for European countries goes a long way to explain the Brexit result. The British are still fairly neutral on the latter. I guess you'd have to blame both sides for this.

    A lot of us have relatives who emigrated to Oz and EnZed to make new lives for themselves, often very successfully. Those 'friends and relatives' who have gone to Spain and Portugal though....

    Edited for FFS
    Well my relatives back in the UK love my Spanish homes visiting me every year since 2009 way more than I saw them when I lived in London. I have many friends here with similar experiences.
    Fair enough; I've met more dodgy Brits in bars in Spain and Portugal than in the Antipodes, though.
    I've probably met more in bars in Thailand, though.
    Brit bars the world over are often dodgy - we go Spanish.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 8,497

    Would like to share a non-political story. For family reasons I need to keep up a good income so I do interpretation and translation on the side from my day job. I was asked to interpret for a Dane who has been blind for 30 years despite no fewer than 40 operations: there is a revolutionary new treatment in Brighton which he was willing to try; the Danish Health Service financed his trip (and my interpretation, as it was critical that his condition and health symptoms were accurately understood, but my role was extremely minor). The operation carried a risk of death and a a further risk that the very limited sense of light and dark that he did have would be lost.He is a brave, philosophical chap with a rich sense of humour (he went joking into the operation (told the anaesthetist that if he could see again he trusted she'd be blonde and under 30...).

    Last night I heard that it had worked and he can see again. It's just wonderful.

    The op, which seems very weird, is described here:

    https://health.howstuffworks.com/medicine/surgeries-procedures/tooth-in-eye-surgery.htm

    Wow.

    That is some story. And your client sounds like a truly amazing character.

    Thank you for sharing. Would you mind if I used it as a news item in tutor time?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 40,642
    Mr. Alex, aye, but if you compared them during Campbell's time as leader, Ashdown came across as younger and Campbell a bit doddery.

    Mr. Palmer, that's great news :)

    It must be very odd for the chap in question. In a fantastic way, of course.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,002
    ydoethur said:



    Wow.

    That is some story. And your client sounds like a truly amazing character.

    Thank you for sharing. Would you mind if I used it as a news item in tutor time?

    No, do. He's a wonderful man, with much more to it than I can say in public.

    Incidentally, I was dead impressed with the hospital's careful preparation, which included an interview with a psychiatrist to ensure that he understood the risks and was prepared to both risk dying and risk failure.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,190
    felix said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    The difference between the antipodean scores and those for European countries goes a long way to explain the Brexit result. The British are still fairly neutral on the latter. I guess you'd have to blame both sides for this.

    A lot of us have relatives who emigrated to Oz and EnZed to make new lives for themselves, often very successfully. Those 'friends and relatives' who have gone to Spain and Portugal though....

    Edited for FFS
    Well my relatives back in the UK love my Spanish homes visiting me every year since 2009 way more than I saw them when I lived in London. I have many friends here with similar experiences.
    Fair enough; I've met more dodgy Brits in bars in Spain and Portugal than in the Antipodes, though.
    I've probably met more in bars in Thailand, though.
    Brit bars the world over are often dodgy - we go Spanish.
    Very true. But the characters one meets can be 'interesting'! Pinch of salt frequently necessary of course!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 8,497

    ydoethur said:



    Wow.

    That is some story. And your client sounds like a truly amazing character.

    Thank you for sharing. Would you mind if I used it as a news item in tutor time?

    No, do. He's a wonderful man, with much more to it than I can say in public.

    Incidentally, I was dead impressed with the hospital's careful preparation, which included an interview with a psychiatrist to ensure that he understood the risks and was prepared to both risk dying and risk failure.
    Thank you Dr Palmer. Much appreciated. It's a very inspiring story.

    Must dash. I hope everyone has a great day.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,095

    Hammond playing silly buggers again in Davos.

    He needs to spend more time in his garden and with his family. I can't understand how he's still in the post but if Theresa doesn't remove him sharpish then it is her who is going to be the one tending to tulips.

    I am thinking Hammond's departure is going to be the price for May staying as PM until the end of March 2019. The pair of them together do seem to be achieving a toxic critical mass.....

    She either gets rid of one - or both go. Not too difficult a choice, is it Theresa? Then move Hunt to CoE? I doubt he could refuse that move from Health....
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 16,701

    Hammond playing silly buggers again in Davos.

    He needs to spend more time in his garden and with his family. I can't understand how he's still in the post but if Theresa doesn't remove him sharpish then it is her who is going to be the one tending to tulips.

    I am thinking Hammond's departure is going to be the price for May staying as PM until the end of March 2019. The pair of them together do seem to be achieving a toxic critical mass.....

    She either gets rid of one - or both go. Not too difficult a choice, is it Theresa? Then move Hunt to CoE? I doubt he could refuse that move from Health....
    Maybe Gove as CoE wouldn't be such a bad idea. He could implement some of the 'bold' ideas the Treasury has sitting on the shelf and he might also go native on the single market.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 13,287
    Hammond next out of Cabinet?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,095

    Hammond next out of Cabinet?

    Looking likely.

    It really needs to be a Leaver in the post of Chancellor, however much of a Johnny-come-lately to the cause.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,253
    Corbyn seems in good shape, so not too old, some could handle it some couldn't .
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,107

    Hammond next out of Cabinet?

    Not before time...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 13,287
    :lol:

    Just clicked to an article on Independent website, and the full page video advert that fires up is for... The new-look Guardian.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,095
    61-2 looks a bit more of a fight....
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,107

    Hammond playing silly buggers again in Davos.

    He needs to spend more time in his garden and with his family. I can't understand how he's still in the post but if Theresa doesn't remove him sharpish then it is her who is going to be the one tending to tulips.

    I am thinking Hammond's departure is going to be the price for May staying as PM until the end of March 2019. The pair of them together do seem to be achieving a toxic critical mass.....

    She either gets rid of one - or both go. Not too difficult a choice, is it Theresa? Then move Hunt to CoE? I doubt he could refuse that move from Health....
    Maybe Gove as CoE wouldn't be such a bad idea. He could implement some of the 'bold' ideas the Treasury has sitting on the shelf and he might also go native on the single market.
    Or, maybe, he won't.

    We're leaving the single market. Every single pronouncement has said so.

    Rejoice!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 28,253
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    Any right thinking patriotic Brit should be furious at the Brexiters for diminishing us. I certainly am.

    Brexiters think it is a huge victory. They are cowards and fools.

    C***s.

    Or you could calm the heck down, it's not even 9am yet.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 265

    Hammond playing silly buggers again in Davos.

    He needs to spend more time in his garden and with his family. I can't understand how he's still in the post but if Theresa doesn't remove him sharpish then it is her who is going to be the one tending to tulips.

    I am thinking Hammond's departure is going to be the price for May staying as PM until the end of March 2019. The pair of them together do seem to be achieving a toxic critical mass.....

    She either gets rid of one - or both go. Not too difficult a choice, is it Theresa? Then move Hunt to CoE? I doubt he could refuse that move from Health....
    Indeed.

    Does Hammond have a following in the party? Not as far as I can tell.
    Will removing him change the parliamentary dynamics? Very little I imagine.
    Is he good at his job? Not based on the evidence of the last 18 months.
    Is he a good communicator and/or liked by the public? No he has very little appeal and if he's not even seen as competent, then zero appeal.
    Why is he still there? Answers on a postcard to Theresa or if you prefer, Graham Brady
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 1,637

    Would like to share a non-political story. For family reasons I need to keep up a good income so I do interpretation and translation on the side from my day job. I was asked to interpret for a Dane who has been blind for 30 years despite no fewer than 40 operations: there is a revolutionary new treatment in Brighton which he was willing to try; the Danish Health Service financed his trip (and my interpretation, as it was critical that his condition and health symptoms were accurately understood, but my role was extremely minor). The operation carried a risk of death and a a further risk that the very limited sense of light and dark that he did have would be lost.He is a brave, philosophical chap with a rich sense of humour (he went joking into the operation (told the anaesthetist that if he could see again he trusted she'd be blonde and under 30...).

    Last night I heard that it had worked and he can see again. It's just wonderful.

    The op, which seems very weird, is described here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteo-odonto-keratoprosthesis

    https://health.howstuffworks.com/medicine/surgeries-procedures/tooth-in-eye-surgery.htm

    Thanks for sharing :smile: what wonderful news!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 34,492
    Sacking Hammond would presumably add at least one more letter to Brady's sack.

    Can May afford that?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 38,234
    No surprise that New Zealand tops the poll, it is probably closer culturally to the UK than any other country in the world. The countries that come bottom, Russia and Iran, are seen as threats to the West while Argentina cones third from bottom with concerns still over the Falklands despite a more amenable current government
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 7,365
    Is Fleet Street missing the real story here? In the past couple of days we've had Hammond slapped down and Boris slapped down so either Number 10 has hired a new SpAd to tweet slapdowns or someone is on manoeuvres -- but who?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,107
    Scott_P said:

    Sacking Hammond would presumably add at least one more letter to Brady's sack.

    Can May afford that?

    And might lead to others taking their's back....
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 265
    Scott_P said:

    Sacking Hammond would presumably add at least one more letter to Brady's sack.

    Can May afford that?

    Simple way to fix that. Take one Brexiteer letter out of the sack, put one Remainer letter in.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 11,961

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    Any right thinking patriotic Brit should be furious at the Brexiters for diminishing us. I certainly am.

    Brexiters think it is a huge victory. They are cowards and fools.

    C***s.

    Smug and angry is not a good look on most people.

    But you wear it well.
    Just telling it as it is.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 11,961
    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    Any right thinking patriotic Brit should be furious at the Brexiters for diminishing us. I certainly am.

    Brexiters think it is a huge victory. They are cowards and fools.

    C***s.

    Or you could calm the heck down, it's not even 9am yet.
    I decided to forego my usual 30 mins do I really want to send that period.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 13,973
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    Any right thinking patriotic Brit should be furious at the Brexiters for diminishing us. I certainly am.

    Brexiters think it is a huge victory. They are cowards and fools.

    C***s.

    Bitcearly to be hitting the bottle isn't it?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 7,365

    Hammond playing silly buggers again in Davos.

    He needs to spend more time in his garden and with his family. I can't understand how he's still in the post but if Theresa doesn't remove him sharpish then it is her who is going to be the one tending to tulips.

    I am thinking Hammond's departure is going to be the price for May staying as PM until the end of March 2019. The pair of them together do seem to be achieving a toxic critical mass.....

    She either gets rid of one - or both go. Not too difficult a choice, is it Theresa? Then move Hunt to CoE? I doubt he could refuse that move from Health....
    Maybe Gove as CoE wouldn't be such a bad idea. He could implement some of the 'bold' ideas the Treasury has sitting on the shelf and he might also go native on the single market.
    Gove wants to reform the entire civil service. Installing him in Number 11 would give him the freedom to blow up Whitehall in the middle of Brexit negotiations.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 2,689
    Chancellor should be sacked for making sure his every public announcement is designed to reassure the markets with a message of “not much will change”? It’s a view I suppose.

    Hell we could be going full frontal Hard Brexit, no trade treaties, 100% tariffs on everything, and I would expect the Chancellor to be publicly claiming “nothing much will change”.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 779

    Would like to share a non-political story. For family reasons I need to keep up a good income so I do interpretation and translation on the side from my day job. I was asked to interpret for a Dane who has been blind for 30 years despite no fewer than 40 operations: there is a revolutionary new treatment in Brighton which he was willing to try; the Danish Health Service financed his trip (and my interpretation, as it was critical that his condition and health symptoms were accurately understood, but my role was extremely minor). The operation carried a risk of death and a a further risk that the very limited sense of light and dark that he did have would be lost.He is a brave, philosophical chap with a rich sense of humour (he went joking into the operation (told the anaesthetist that if he could see again he trusted she'd be blonde and under 30...).

    Last night I heard that it had worked and he can see again. It's just wonderful.

    The op, which seems very weird, is described here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteo-odonto-keratoprosthesis

    https://health.howstuffworks.com/medicine/surgeries-procedures/tooth-in-eye-surgery.htm

    Good luck to him!

    It is part of the human experience that we focus on the failings within our systems and fail to focus on the real progress over the years.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 25,648
    edited January 26
    Deleted - double post
  • I do question how so many media commentators say that 48 letters will trigger a leadership contest.

    48 letters will trigger a vote of no confidence in her that she is likely to win. That is not a leadership contest.

    On Corbyn - if his health remains ok, and if (and it is a huge if) he arrives at no 10 the question should be as to how long he would last in post - he is entirely unsuited to the role and when the media spotlight puts him under daily attack, as they will, his inadequacy is likely to overwhelm him
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,095
    Already done to death down thread!
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 3,508
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    Any right thinking patriotic Brit should be furious at the Brexiters for diminishing us. I certainly am.

    Brexiters think it is a huge victory. They are cowards and fools.

    C***s.

    I feel regret far more than anger at Brexit. Some anger towards certain dishonest individuals. But anger towards the public for their decision? That way lies near perpetual unhappiness as the public are always going to make decisions I don’t like at some point...

    I’d also observe - this stuff about loss of influence and international standing - I think we in Remain overestimated how effective that argument would be. It just doesn’t feel tangible to people.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 779

    Hammond playing silly buggers again in Davos.

    He needs to spend more time in his garden and with his family. I can't understand how he's still in the post but if Theresa doesn't remove him sharpish then it is her who is going to be the one tending to tulips.

    I am thinking Hammond's departure is going to be the price for May staying as PM until the end of March 2019. The pair of them together do seem to be achieving a toxic critical mass.....

    She either gets rid of one - or both go. Not too difficult a choice, is it Theresa? Then move Hunt to CoE? I doubt he could refuse that move from Health....
    Indeed.

    Does Hammond have a following in the party? Not as far as I can tell.
    Will removing him change the parliamentary dynamics? Very little I imagine.
    Is he good at his job? Not based on the evidence of the last 18 months.
    Is he a good communicator and/or liked by the public? No he has very little appeal and if he's not even seen as competent, then zero appeal.
    Why is he still there? Answers on a postcard to Theresa or if you prefer, Graham Brady
    Hammond can be rather Eeyore-ish, but has had a pretty good run as Chancellor. He has a rather reassuring, unflappable old school personality, which is rather attractive in a world full of ADHD like populists. I can understand why the swivel-eyed loons do not like him.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,095
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    Any right thinking patriotic Brit should be furious at the Brexiters for diminishing us. I certainly am.

    Brexiters think it is a huge victory. They are cowards and fools.

    C***s.

    Smug and angry is not a good look on most people.

    But you wear it well.
    Just telling it as it is.
    In your little world.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 25,648

    Scott_P said:
    If "Britain's stature on the world stage has diminshed", that of the USA needs an electron microscope - after electing Trump.

    Yep - two countries rapidly pissing away all the soft power they have accumulated over many long years. The US will remain relevant because of its hard power. Can't say the same for us.

  • rkrkrk said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    Any right thinking patriotic Brit should be furious at the Brexiters for diminishing us. I certainly am.

    Brexiters think it is a huge victory. They are cowards and fools.

    C***s.

    I feel regret far more than anger at Brexit. Some anger towards certain dishonest individuals. But anger towards the public for their decision? That way lies near perpetual unhappiness as the public are always going to make decisions I don’t like at some point...

    I’d also observe - this stuff about loss of influence and international standing - I think we in Remain overestimated how effective that argument would be. It just doesn’t feel tangible to people.
    A very good post
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 25,648

    France is far too high in that list.

    People that like France are very fond of it indeed.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 13,287

    I do question how so many media commentators say that 48 letters will trigger a leadership contest.

    48 letters will trigger a vote of no confidence in her that she is likely to win. That is not a leadership contest.

    On Corbyn - if his health remains ok, and if (and it is a huge if) he arrives at no 10 the question should be as to how long he would last in post - he is entirely unsuited to the role and when the media spotlight puts him under daily attack, as they will, his inadequacy is likely to overwhelm him

    I can't see May winning a No Confidence vote. Not anymore. Maybe a couple of months ago or so. But not now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 38,234
    edited January 26

    Deleted - double post

    If you think the Brexit vote was a vote to get a bigger audience for the UK PM in Davos you need to go back to the drawing board, as recent elections have showed it is not as if other western countries do not have rising anti immigration and anti capitalism and anti globalisation movements too
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 34,492
    rkrkrk said:

    I’d also observe - this stuff about loss of influence and international standing - I think we in Remain overestimated how effective that argument would be. It just doesn’t feel tangible to people.

    The flipside of that argument is the Brexiteers yearning for the return of Empire.

    In their minds we can increase our Global influence by retreating to the past.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,246
    rkrkrk said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    Any right thinking patriotic Brit should be furious at the Brexiters for diminishing us. I certainly am.

    Brexiters think it is a huge victory. They are cowards and fools.

    C***s.

    I feel regret far more than anger at Brexit. Some anger towards certain dishonest individuals. But anger towards the public for their decision? That way lies near perpetual unhappiness as the public are always going to make decisions I don’t like at some point...

    I’d also observe - this stuff about loss of influence and international standing - I think we in Remain overestimated how effective that argument would be. It just doesn’t feel tangible to people.
    We're what, 1% of the global population? About 3.4% of global GDP? I'm not sure what people expect us to achieve on the world stage. We're important, but in no way a colossus - those days are long gone.

    We'll be slipping down the economic league tables this century - India is likely to overtake both France and the UK this year. However, this doesn't mean we can't prosper in relative terms; it's not as if our recent overseas adventures have generated any political capital.

    If Brexit forces us to spend a bit more time sorting out domestic issues, rather than grandstanding in some post-Imperial spasm, it will be for the good.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 3,508

    I do question how so many media commentators say that 48 letters will trigger a leadership contest.

    48 letters will trigger a vote of no confidence in her that she is likely to win. That is not a leadership contest.

    On Corbyn - if his health remains ok, and if (and it is a huge if) he arrives at no 10 the question should be as to how long he would last in post - he is entirely unsuited to the role and when the media spotlight puts him under daily attack, as they will, his inadequacy is likely to overwhelm him

    I think we can safely say we’ve seen how Corbyn responds under daily media attack.

    If he reaches #10 I suspect he would only serve one term. That perception is likely to be destabilising IMO - from the moment he is in the door people would be jostling to be in line to replace him.

    Super speculative but - I suspect he would try to line up some quick wins on tuition fees, higher taxation on the wealthy, more money for the NHS, a few apologies for colonial atrocities and then he’d be tempted to stand down if he could guarantee a leftie on the ballot. I’m unconvinced he could get the utility nationalisations through Parliament even with a majority - but I think we’d see train franchises coming back to public ownership.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 34,492
    John_M said:

    If Brexit forces us to spend a bit more time sorting out domestic issues, rather than grandstanding in some post-Imperial spasm, it will be for the good.

    Except the entire domestic agenda has been sacrificed on the altar of Brexit.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 40,642
    Mr. P, those ardent Remain supporters are the ones who keep banging on about the Empire.

    It's Cathy Newmanesque.

    "I want the UK to leave the EU."

    "So you're saying we should conquer Africa?"
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 11,961

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    Any right thinking patriotic Brit should be furious at the Brexiters for diminishing us. I certainly am.

    Brexiters think it is a huge victory. They are cowards and fools.

    C***s.

    Bitcearly to be hitting the bottle isn't it?
    I have five types of gin in my freezer I'm spoilt for choice.
  • Scott_P said:

    rkrkrk said:

    I’d also observe - this stuff about loss of influence and international standing - I think we in Remain overestimated how effective that argument would be. It just doesn’t feel tangible to people.

    The flipside of that argument is the Brexiteers yearning for the return of Empire.

    In their minds we can increase our Global influence by retreating to the past.
    Utter rubbish. Having a global outlook is not returning to the past, much as you would like to try to paint the picture of Empire
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,543

    I do question how so many media commentators say that 48 letters will trigger a leadership contest.

    48 letters will trigger a vote of no confidence in her that she is likely to win. That is not a leadership contest.

    On Corbyn - if his health remains ok, and if (and it is a huge if) he arrives at no 10 the question should be as to how long he would last in post - he is entirely unsuited to the role and when the media spotlight puts him under daily attack, as they will, his inadequacy is likely to overwhelm him

    I can't see May winning a No Confidence vote. Not anymore. Maybe a couple of months ago or so. But not now.
    On balance I agree. A lot of the MPs would want her to see Brexit through, and they will know how damaging a leadership election would be right now. There will also be a fair few of them fearing getting lumbered with Boris or RM. However these are reasons not to send in letters; once we reach the point where a vote is publicly declared, half the damage is done, and May's premiership cannot take much more damage. A narrow result in a confidence vote isn't a sustainable position, and so they then might as well vote her out and take their chances,
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,246
    Scott_P said:

    John_M said:

    If Brexit forces us to spend a bit more time sorting out domestic issues, rather than grandstanding in some post-Imperial spasm, it will be for the good.

    Except the entire domestic agenda has been sacrificed on the altar of Brexit.
    There has to be some truth in that, though from my experience in public service, you're overstating your case. May is in trouble because even in areas with no direct connection to Brexit (e.g. housing) little is being accomplished.
  • rkrkrk said:

    I do question how so many media commentators say that 48 letters will trigger a leadership contest.

    48 letters will trigger a vote of no confidence in her that she is likely to win. That is not a leadership contest.

    On Corbyn - if his health remains ok, and if (and it is a huge if) he arrives at no 10 the question should be as to how long he would last in post - he is entirely unsuited to the role and when the media spotlight puts him under daily attack, as they will, his inadequacy is likely to overwhelm him

    I think we can safely say we’ve seen how Corbyn responds under daily media attack.

    If he reaches #10 I suspect he would only serve one term. That perception is likely to be destabilising IMO - from the moment he is in the door people would be jostling to be in line to replace him.

    Super speculative but - I suspect he would try to line up some quick wins on tuition fees, higher taxation on the wealthy, more money for the NHS, a few apologies for colonial atrocities and then he’d be tempted to stand down if he could guarantee a leftie on the ballot. I’m unconvinced he could get the utility nationalisations through Parliament even with a majority - but I think we’d see train franchises coming back to public ownership.
    Some talk of Grayling bringing the East Coast back in house pending a new franchise in 2020. Corbyn succeeding in public ownership of train franchises may well be obstructed by the length of the franchise
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 13,287
    IanB2 said:

    I do question how so many media commentators say that 48 letters will trigger a leadership contest.

    48 letters will trigger a vote of no confidence in her that she is likely to win. That is not a leadership contest.

    On Corbyn - if his health remains ok, and if (and it is a huge if) he arrives at no 10 the question should be as to how long he would last in post - he is entirely unsuited to the role and when the media spotlight puts him under daily attack, as they will, his inadequacy is likely to overwhelm him

    I can't see May winning a No Confidence vote. Not anymore. Maybe a couple of months ago or so. But not now.
    On balance I agree. A lot of the MPs would want her to see Brexit through, and they will know how damaging a leadership election would be right now. There will also be a fair few of them fearing getting lumbered with Boris or RM. However these are reasons not to send in letters; once we reach the point where a vote is publicly declared, half the damage is done, and May's premiership cannot take much more damage. A narrow result in a confidence vote isn't a sustainable position, and so they then might as well vote her out and take their chances,
    There is also the factor that if there is to be vote, she simply takes soundings and withdraws before the vote. She's only carrying on out of duty.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 20,007
    Scott_P said:

    rkrkrk said:

    I’d also observe - this stuff about loss of influence and international standing - I think we in Remain overestimated how effective that argument would be. It just doesn’t feel tangible to people.

    The flipside of that argument is the Brexiteers yearning for the return of Empire.

    In their minds we can increase our Global influence by retreating to the past.
    When I was born, the Empire amounted to Belize, Hong Kong, Aden, and a number of islands in the West Indies and Pacific. I'm not yearning for a return to those glory days.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 11,961
    John_M said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    Any right thinking patriotic Brit should be furious at the Brexiters for diminishing us. I certainly am.

    Brexiters think it is a huge victory. They are cowards and fools.

    C***s.

    I feel regret far more than anger at Brexit. Some anger towards certain dishonest individuals. But anger towards the public for their decision? That way lies near perpetual unhappiness as the public are always going to make decisions I don’t like at some point...

    I’d also observe - this stuff about loss of influence and international standing - I think we in Remain overestimated how effective that argument would be. It just doesn’t feel tangible to people.
    We're what, 1% of the global population? About 3.4% of global GDP? I'm not sure what people expect us to achieve on the world stage. We're important, but in no way a colossus - those days are long gone.

    We'll be slipping down the economic league tables this century - India is likely to overtake both France and the UK this year. However, this doesn't mean we can't prosper in relative terms; it's not as if our recent overseas adventures have generated any political capital.

    If Brexit forces us to spend a bit more time sorting out domestic issues, rather than grandstanding in some post-Imperial spasm, it will be for the good.
    Brexit will force us to try to make trade deals with Tonga, won't it. Not sure the denizens of Bourne gain a great deal thereby.
This discussion has been closed.