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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » DefSec & ex-chief whip, Gavin Williamson, – a good bet at 7/1

SystemSystem Posts: 3,967
edited January 29 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » DefSec & ex-chief whip, Gavin Williamson, – a good bet at 7/1 for next cabinet exit?

The latest of TMay's favourite's G Williamson under pressure over what happened at fireplace firm https://t.co/ODNt4ubCnu

Read the full story here


«134

Comments

  • TomsToms Posts: 1,471
    Double, double toil and trouble;
    Fire burn, and cauldron bubble.
  • Gwwnbpm
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 1,172
    I don't think he'll go. GW is a glycol blooded psycho who doesn't give a fuck what people think and May can't sack him as that would the end of her too.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 4,334
    If the implication of the Guardian story is correct, he's going to have to Fallon his sword...
    Should have stayed as chief whip in a back room with his spider.
  • O/T France (Sorry, very long post and only for those interested in continental politics.)

    First round of two by-elections since last year's general elections. The two constituencies in question were reliably right-wing before last year. In June, the Macron-supporting candidates did very well there: one won easily in Val d'Oise (54.5/45.5) and the other just lost in Belfort (49.2 to 50.7).
    No candidate reached 50% in either constituency and thus there will be second rounds between the top two candidates next week.


    Val d'Oise
    Qualified for second round: LREM (Macron's party) 29.3 (-6.7) and LR (right) 23.67 (+5.9)

    Eliminated: FI (far-left) 11.47 (+1,3), FN (Le Pen) 10.11 (-5.2) Socialists 6.88 (+1.4) Greens 6.2 (+2.3) DLF (eurosceptic right) 4.3 (+4.3) and 5 others 8.08 (+2.5)

    It does not look like a very easy second round for the LREM incumbent and it could be quite close. Two losers here LREM and FN. LREM apparently lost some votes on both sides, but mostly to the right. Le Pen's party used to do well in by-elections but this time it lost ground both to DLF and to small outfits run by former FN executives expelled from the party (PDF and Patriotes).

    Belfort
    Quakified for second round: LR 39.0 (+15.3) and LREM 26.7 (-5.1)

    Eliminated: FI 11.6 (-2) FN 7.7 (-9.8) Greens 4.5 (+4.5) DLF 3.8 (3.8) Socialists 2.6 (-6.5) Patriotes 2 (+2) 2 others 2.2 (+0.4)

    Very strong result for the sitting MP who will almost certainly be reelected. Terrible result for the FN, paying the price for its internal problems and their feuding with the Patriotes. It is also probably one of the worst results for a socialist candidate ever (in a seat they held from 1997 to 2002)

    In national terms, these results seem to show that LR is slowly regaining some strength, despite its impopular leader (Laurent Wauquiez), while the socialists (and the left in general) are still in very bad shape. The FN appears to be in crisis and divided again but they have time to regain strength before the Euro elections next year.
    LREM remains in a strong position, but more because of its centrist position (giving it strength in two-round contests) than by its very large base.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 4,334
    Don't apologise - your posts are some of the most valuable on the site.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 4,334
    This is beginning to smell a bit like Major's back to basics debacle.

    Although May announced no official campaign, her zero tolerance of anything which might be considered a history of harassment (while in many respects far more admirable than Major's risible gambit) has reaped relatively few political gains at some considerable cost.
    Meanwhile, Labour gets away with similar embarrassments by taking a more complacent attitude,.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 991
    Didn't the Whips Office check up to see if there were any skeletons rattling around in Williamson's cupboard before he got offered a cabinet seat.... Oh! Wait a minute.....
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 7,369
    Nigelb said:

    This is beginning to smell a bit like Major's back to basics debacle.

    Although May announced no official campaign, her zero tolerance of anything which might be considered a history of harassment (while in many respects far more admirable than Major's risible gambit) has reaped relatively few political gains at some considerable cost.
    Meanwhile, Labour gets away with similar embarrassments by taking a more complacent attitude,.

    Labour is not in government. To put it bluntly, Labour is not news. That is also why no-one gives a damn that Labour is at least as muddled on Brexit as the Conservatives. Williamson matters because he might be Prime Minister by Easter, as might Boris or Hammond or even, dare whisper it, Theresa May.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,668
    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,116
    So does Williamson know who is briefing against him - and make a targeted response? Or does he just start flinging shit at anyone who might be trying to get in his way?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 7,695
    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    It's the alleged cover up that's serious. Talking about Russia to deflect attention from his personal life is a pretty dumb thing to do.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 18,494
    Anything Williamson did here happened before he was an MP, let alone a Minister so the Ministerial Code is not relevant (unlike the Green case). If he has not done anything silly in the intelligence briefing he will remain in office. At the moment that looks like the Guardian adding 2 and 2 and getting about 8.

    May has few enough allies. She will not choose to lose another. Of course this may damage his prospects of succeeding May but that is a different issue altogether.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 8,497
    Charles said:


    How is that not stalking?

    You might very well think that, he couldn't possibly comment.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 18,555
    Never dip your pen in the company inkwell.
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 332
    FF43 said:



    You're right in your analysis that the "transition" simply moves the cliff edge out by twenty months. I may have been slightly hyperbolic about the impossibility of rejecting the transition. But not much. The transition is going ahead as is.

    Mrs May is in a predicament. She can't tell her warring factions the truth. Brexit can't be stopped ; neither can it be delivered.

    Another bold statement - Brexit cannot be delivered. Why on Earth not? You talk as if no country in the World was independent, managed its own borders and made its own trade deal or used WTO rules where no treaty was in place.

    Of course Brexit can be delivered. The problem is that the establishment does not want to deliver it.

    Also, in relation to the points made elsewhere (by others) that there is no majority for hard Brexit in the HoC, it doesn't matter at all. The HoC cannot negotiate with the EU - they can only reject or accept any deal proposed by the Government. If they reject, you get hard Brexit anyway. So soft Brexit depends on the Govt agreeing that with the EU. And although the Leavers are not a majority in the HoC or even in the Tory party, they probably have the numbers to ensure that May is tossed out and in that case it is overwhelmingly likely that a Leaver will end up as Tory leader. So explain to me whether it matters what the majority in the HoC think?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,668
    DavidL said:

    Anything Williamson did here happened before he was an MP, let alone a Minister so the Ministerial Code is not relevant (unlike the Green case). If he has not done anything silly in the intelligence briefing he will remain in office. At the moment that looks like the Guardian adding 2 and 2 and getting about 8.

    May has few enough allies. She will not choose to lose another. Of course this may damage his prospects of succeeding May but that is a different issue altogether.

    It’s very relevant.

    Character matters in a PM.

    Getting drunk and being silly at a party is one thing. Pursuing it to the point of upsetting the object of your affections is quite another
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,304
    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 18,494

    Never dip your pen in the company inkwell.

    Sound advice but not much to do with his conduct as a Minister.

    The "cover up" allegation at the moment is risible. In Green's case he lied (whilst a Minister) about what the police had told him at the time of the original investigation. All we have here is that it was a "distraction" at a time when the MoD, along with other departments, are seeking to keep/increase their budget for the coming year. How on earth could running such a story prevent the original story from coming out? By increasing Williamson's profile it simply made it marginally more newsworthy.

    At the moment it seems to me yet another example of why only certain peculiar personality types would think politics was worth the candle.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 18,494
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Anything Williamson did here happened before he was an MP, let alone a Minister so the Ministerial Code is not relevant (unlike the Green case). If he has not done anything silly in the intelligence briefing he will remain in office. At the moment that looks like the Guardian adding 2 and 2 and getting about 8.

    May has few enough allies. She will not choose to lose another. Of course this may damage his prospects of succeeding May but that is a different issue altogether.

    It’s very relevant.

    Character matters in a PM.

    Getting drunk and being silly at a party is one thing. Pursuing it to the point of upsetting the object of your affections is quite another
    I agree that whoever has unearthed this episode has undermined his case for taking over from May. Which was presumably the intention.

    If the Tories continue this level of blue on blue the government just might fall. It has already ceased to function in any meaningful way.
  • Gavin Williamson will never be PM/Tory Leader*

    He’s a bit paranoid, accusing Boris and Phil Hammond of briefing against him.

    I can see why Phil Hammond nicknamed Gavin Williamson ‘Private Pike’

    *My betting position hopes so.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 11,975
    The ultimate AGA Saga I see.

    As to what he did, it is the power imbalance that is the issue. He was MD and she a subordinate from reading the reports. That is likely to hide a multitude of sins.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 13,295
    :lol:

    Being thrown out of the Cabinet for an affair at work isn't part of the House of Cards plot as far as I recall. So, something has gone badly wrong with Williamson.
  • Mrs May and her favourites, further proof that Theresa May is the fecal Midas
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 18,494
    TOPPING said:

    The ultimate AGA Saga I see.

    As to what he did, it is the power imbalance that is the issue. He was MD and she a subordinate from reading the reports. That is likely to hide a multitude of sins.

    In fairness Aga seem to come out of this quite well. Its not every company who would lose their MD because he was embarrassing a junior member of staff.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 11,975
    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    The ultimate AGA Saga I see.

    As to what he did, it is the power imbalance that is the issue. He was MD and she a subordinate from reading the reports. That is likely to hide a multitude of sins.

    In fairness Aga seem to come out of this quite well. Its not every company who would lose their MD because he was embarrassing a junior member of staff.
    Thinking of its customer demographic maybe.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 13,295
    Sunday papers reckon there are 40 letters in already.

    With things this bad, surely there's a good chance that another 8 will arrive as MPs gather back at Westminster over next couple of days?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 18,494
    Carillion back in the news: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42853895

    Apparently the company deferred pension contributions because of "cash flow restraints". Which would be understandable if they weren't paying out dividends and substantial bonuses to senior staff at the same time. Frank Field is on their case. Surely director disqualification proceedings are not going to be long delayed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 8,497
    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    The ultimate AGA Saga I see.

    As to what he did, it is the power imbalance that is the issue. He was MD and she a subordinate from reading the reports. That is likely to hide a multitude of sins.

    In fairness Aga seem to come out of this quite well. Its not every company who would lose their MD because he was embarrassing a junior member of staff.
    Especially not given that as he claims he was well lit at the time they could have used him as an advertising slogan.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 18,494
    This is interesting: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42747342

    There was no "youthquake" in 2017.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,116
    edited January 29

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    It's good to know that if the Guardian asked you a bunch of questions about your love life before you were running pb.com, you would feel honour bound to answer them - and not tell them to piss off.

    We are getting to the point where nobody but maiden aunts will be able to take up politics. Just those whose biggest act of stupid is running through a cornfield. And look how well that worked out.

    What were criminal actions at the time shouldn't be excused. But stuff which is part of learning about life - and where lessons have been learned - do require a level of moving on.

    Anyway, just off to write a list of questions to be put to all Guardian journalists, to see how many of them can carry on in their careers....
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,668

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    If he can betray his wife, then he can betray his country.

    He needs to quit as Defence Secretary.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 18,494
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    A drunken kiss at a party is cheating now? Blimey.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 62,086
    edited January 29
    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    A drunken kiss at a party is cheating now? Blimey.
    Yup.

    I get into trouble for just looking at another woman.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,668
    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    The ultimate AGA Saga I see.

    As to what he did, it is the power imbalance that is the issue. He was MD and she a subordinate from reading the reports. That is likely to hide a multitude of sins.

    In fairness Aga seem to come out of this quite well. Its not every company who would lose their MD because he was embarrassing a junior member of staff.
    Just to be clear, he was MD of a *subsidiary* of Aga (presumably a sales office) not of Aga itself.

    The woman in question went to the parent company which shows how serious it was
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 5,368

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    If he can betray his wife, then he can betray his country.

    He needs to quit as Defence Secretary.
    John Major Didn't and he was PM.. There was talk of Blair and his crystal ball lady, I forget her name, and he didn't)...

    I guess its ok if you don't get found out
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,014
    edited January 29
    One has to allow a bit for journalistic rivalry here - the Guardian will be miffed that he attempted to spike their story by going to another paper. But the combination of issues described suggests at least bad judgment. Can't see him resigning, but add him to the list of people who won't be PM. If I was a Cabinet heavyweight, I'd be starting to wonder if the way that each potential successor to May is undermined isn't forming a pattern.

    But yes, as DavidL says, the Government does not appear to be functioning in any meaningful way. Apart from Gove and maybe Javid, almost nobody seems to be attending to their jobs (maybe Hunt? But what is he actually doing?), while the Cabinet as a whole stares at the approaching Brexit choice like a rabbit in the headlights, unable to move in either direction. There was a recent article in a German paper where it said that the EU has given up on getting a clear indication from Britain of what exactly we want to happen (within the limits of what is possible), so they've come to the conclusion that they simply need to give us a binary choice, essentially Norway or Canada without significant pluses or minuses.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 18,494
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    The ultimate AGA Saga I see.

    As to what he did, it is the power imbalance that is the issue. He was MD and she a subordinate from reading the reports. That is likely to hide a multitude of sins.

    In fairness Aga seem to come out of this quite well. Its not every company who would lose their MD because he was embarrassing a junior member of staff.
    Just to be clear, he was MD of a *subsidiary* of Aga (presumably a sales office) not of Aga itself.

    The woman in question went to the parent company which shows how serious it was
    Yes, I got that but my experience, certainly back then, was that it was usually the junior member of staff who ended up leaving, often with a cheque to soften the blow. Aga do seem to have behaved properly and in a commendable way.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,668
    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    A drunken kiss at a party is cheating now? Blimey.
    The pursuit afterwards is cheating not the drunken kiss.

    Whether or not he achieved his objective is immaterial. He’d broken his pledge of fidelity
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 9,543

    One has to allow a bit for journalistic rivalry here - the Guardian will be miffed that he attempted to spike their story by going to another paper. But the combination of issues described suggests at least bad judgment. Can't see him resigning, but add him to the list of people who won't be PM. If I was a Cabinet heavyweight, I'd be starting to wonder if the way that each potential successor to May is undermined isn't forming a pattern.

    But yes, as DavidL says, the Government does not appear to be functioning in any meaningful way. Apart from Gove and maybe Javid, almost nobody seems to be attending to their jobs (maybe Hunt? But what is he actually doing?), while the Cabinet as a whole stares at the approaching Brexit choice like a rabbit in the headlights, unable to move in either direction. There was a recent article in a German paper where it said that the EU has given up on getting a clear indication from Britain of what exactly we want to happen (within the limits of what is possible), so they've come to the conclusion that they simply need to give us a binary choice, essentially Norway or Canada without significant pluses or minuses.

    Canada and Norway were from the beginning the only realistic choices, at least for the medium term. Canada requires a bit more work, which the government doesn't seem capable of doing right now, so a Norway-style transitional period is likely whilst the government (or a new one) sorts itself out.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,116

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    A drunken kiss at a party is cheating now? Blimey.
    Yup.

    I get into trouble for just looking at another woman.
    But you've got form?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 1,172
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    The ultimate AGA Saga I see.

    As to what he did, it is the power imbalance that is the issue. He was MD and she a subordinate from reading the reports. That is likely to hide a multitude of sins.

    In fairness Aga seem to come out of this quite well. Its not every company who would lose their MD because he was embarrassing a junior member of staff.
    Just to be clear, he was MD of a *subsidiary* of Aga (presumably a sales office) not of Aga itself.

    The woman in question went to the parent company which shows how serious it was
    A degree in Social Sciences from the University of Bradford to being in charge of the brochures at a fireplace company to MP to Chief Whip to DefSec to never being PM is quite the career trajectory.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 11,975
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    The ultimate AGA Saga I see.

    As to what he did, it is the power imbalance that is the issue. He was MD and she a subordinate from reading the reports. That is likely to hide a multitude of sins.

    In fairness Aga seem to come out of this quite well. Its not every company who would lose their MD because he was embarrassing a junior member of staff.
    Just to be clear, he was MD of a *subsidiary* of Aga (presumably a sales office) not of Aga itself.

    The woman in question went to the parent company which shows how serious it was
    And he was MD of it so might have felt she would not be listened to at the subsidiary. Sounds like more than a snog.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 18,494
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    A drunken kiss at a party is cheating now? Blimey.
    The pursuit afterwards is cheating not the drunken kiss.

    Whether or not he achieved his objective is immaterial. He’d broken his pledge of fidelity
    If you are not being entirely serious you are hiding it quite well. The man behaved stupidly. He paid the price. Any other considerations are really a matter for his wife to whom he is still married. Not much thought being given to her though.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 2,694

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    If he can betray his wife, then he can betray his country.

    He needs to quit as Defence Secretary.
    Well I suppose we could get rid of Boris in a job lot.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 4,334
    edited January 29

    So does Williamson know who is briefing against him - and make a targeted response? Or does he just start flinging shit at anyone who might be trying to get in his way?

    Well there is a piece in today's Times where 'friends of' the Def Sec call it a smear campaign by one or more cabinet rivals.

    (Also claimed he was offered another post at the company, but declined it.)
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,014
    Grim, absorbing account of living under ISIS, with upsides as well as horrors and a clear-eyed view of why people put up with this kind of regime:

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/jan/29/bureaucracy-evil-isis-run-city-mosul
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 4,334

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    Surely you've heard of the have you stopped beating your wife question ?

  • TonyETonyE Posts: 936
    DavidL said:

    This is interesting: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42747342

    There was no "youthquake" in 2017.

    People who remember the 1970's Vote Tory shocker.
  • alex. said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    If he can betray his wife, then he can betray his country.

    He needs to quit as Defence Secretary.
    Well I suppose we could get rid of Boris in a job lot.

    Bonus.

    Plus Boris went to Oxford, that place is a nest of traitors.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/kgbs-oxford-spy-recruiter-unmasked/news-story/eab1d3dd134f2528b036dff98da1f4a3
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 11,975

    Grim, absorbing account of living under ISIS, with upsides as well as horrors and a clear-eyed view of why people put up with this kind of regime:

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/jan/29/bureaucracy-evil-isis-run-city-mosul

    Did they get the trains to run on time?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 4,334
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    A drunken kiss at a party is cheating now? Blimey.
    The pursuit afterwards is cheating not the drunken kiss.

    Whether or not he achieved his objective is immaterial. He’d broken his pledge of fidelity
    Which, to be fair, he has freely acknowledged.

    If that were it, then there is no story.
    The implied story is harassment; whether is real substance to it is entirely speculative at this point.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 2,707
    edited January 29
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    The ultimate AGA Saga I see.

    As to what he did, it is the power imbalance that is the issue. He was MD and she a subordinate from reading the reports. That is likely to hide a multitude of sins.

    In fairness Aga seem to come out of this quite well. Its not every company who would lose their MD because he was embarrassing a junior member of staff.
    Just to be clear, he was MD of a *subsidiary* of Aga (presumably a sales office) not of Aga itself.

    The woman in question went to the parent company which shows how serious it was
    And he was MD of it so might have felt she would not be listened to at the subsidiary. Sounds like more than a snog.
    It does , sounds a lot more complicated .
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 4,334

    alex. said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    If he can betray his wife, then he can betray his country.

    He needs to quit as Defence Secretary.
    Well I suppose we could get rid of Boris in a job lot.

    Bonus.

    Plus Boris went to Oxford, that place is a nest of traitors.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/kgbs-oxford-spy-recruiter-unmasked/news-story/eab1d3dd134f2528b036dff98da1f4a3
    Unlike the other place ?
    Which even has its own Wikipedia page.....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 40,653
    Good morning, everyone.

    Odds a bit short for my taste, particularly as he appears favoured by May to succeed her.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,116
    Nigelb said:

    alex. said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    If he can betray his wife, then he can betray his country.

    He needs to quit as Defence Secretary.
    Well I suppose we could get rid of Boris in a job lot.

    Bonus.

    Plus Boris went to Oxford, that place is a nest of traitors.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/kgbs-oxford-spy-recruiter-unmasked/news-story/eab1d3dd134f2528b036dff98da1f4a3
    Unlike the other place ?
    Which even has its own Wikipedia page.....
    Cambridge? Who are they?

    How many Prime Ministers?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 4,334

    Grim, absorbing account of living under ISIS, with upsides as well as horrors and a clear-eyed view of why people put up with this kind of regime:

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/jan/29/bureaucracy-evil-isis-run-city-mosul

    Upsides ?

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 11,975
    No youthquake = Cons should be worried.

    If it denotes that the age around which people are supposed to gravitate towards the Conservatives is rising.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,014
    DavidL said:

    This is interesting: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42747342

    There was no "youthquake" in 2017.

    Yes, that's interesting. Apparently Labour increased in all age groups except the over-70s, who went heavily Tory.

    It is possible, though, that there was a disproportionate increase in young voters who were enthused by Corbyn, matched by an actual fall in youth turnout among voters who thought all the parties were rubbish. That fits the model of a particularly sharp rise in Labour support among the young without any rise in youth turnout.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,014
    Nigelb said:

    Grim, absorbing account of living under ISIS, with upsides as well as horrors and a clear-eyed view of why people put up with this kind of regime:

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/jan/29/bureaucracy-evil-isis-run-city-mosul

    Upsides ?

    Apparently more efficient and less corrupt than their predecessors, according to the article. Clearly not a compensation for being really hideous tyrants but the willingness of the author to note things that worked makes the whole article more credible.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 18,668
    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    A drunken kiss at a party is cheating now? Blimey.
    The pursuit afterwards is cheating not the drunken kiss.

    Whether or not he achieved his objective is immaterial. He’d broken his pledge of fidelity
    If you are not being entirely serious you are hiding it quite well. The man behaved stupidly. He paid the price. Any other considerations are really a matter for his wife to whom he is still married. Not much thought being given to her though.
    It’s not a sacking offence.

    But how can you trust a man that cheats on his wife to lead the country?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 791

    Nigelb said:

    Grim, absorbing account of living under ISIS, with upsides as well as horrors and a clear-eyed view of why people put up with this kind of regime:

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/jan/29/bureaucracy-evil-isis-run-city-mosul

    Upsides ?

    Apparently more efficient and less corrupt than their predecessors, according to the article. Clearly not a compensation for being really hideous tyrants but the willingness of the author to note things that worked makes the whole article more credible.
    It is why people have supported other tyrannies, such as the Taliban or Communists. Harsh rule beats corruption and kleptocracy for the average punter, at least for a while.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 7,369

    alex. said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    If he can betray his wife, then he can betray his country.

    He needs to quit as Defence Secretary.
    Well I suppose we could get rid of Boris in a job lot.

    Bonus.

    Plus Boris went to Oxford, that place is a nest of traitors.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/kgbs-oxford-spy-recruiter-unmasked/news-story/eab1d3dd134f2528b036dff98da1f4a3
    It was never really clear whether the Oxford spies were so inept they were discovered almost immediately or so skilled they were never discovered. The unanswered question about the Cambridge spies is why the KGB was so relaxed about exposing Burgess and Philby, neither of whom had been under suspicion. Who did the KGB have even higher up the establishment?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 40,653
    Mr. Palmer, that seems like saying an upside of getting your arm cut off is losing weight to me, or praising King John for keeping the coffers filled (by extortionate taxes and fines).
  • Nigelb said:

    alex. said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    If he can betray his wife, then he can betray his country.

    He needs to quit as Defence Secretary.
    Well I suppose we could get rid of Boris in a job lot.

    Bonus.

    Plus Boris went to Oxford, that place is a nest of traitors.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/kgbs-oxford-spy-recruiter-unmasked/news-story/eab1d3dd134f2528b036dff98da1f4a3
    Unlike the other place ?
    Which even has its own Wikipedia page.....
    The Five were always working for The UK.

    They duped the KGB.

    One day the truth about Burgess, Maclean, Philby, and Blunt will come out and we will say they were true British patriots.

    The Russians knew if you wanted to get control of the most influential people you needed to target the best uni in the country.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 38,256
    Williamson will stay, the kiss story is all a bit of a storm in a teacup considering it all happened before he was an MP, warning about Russia is nothing new and the Tory membership like his opposition to further defence cuts
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 38,256
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    A drunken kiss at a party is cheating now? Blimey.
    The pursuit afterwards is cheating not the drunken kiss.

    Whether or not he achieved his objective is immaterial. He’d broken his pledge of fidelity
    If you are not being entirely serious you are hiding it quite well. The man behaved stupidly. He paid the price. Any other considerations are really a matter for his wife to whom he is still married. Not much thought being given to her though.
    It’s not a sacking offence.

    But how can you trust a man that cheats on his wife to lead the country?
    He did not actually sleep with her and if rumours are to be believed 3 out of the last 6 PMs cheated on their wives at least once
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 26,638
    Ms Greening playing a very straight bat on R4 supporting the PM.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 4,530

    Nigelb said:

    alex. said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    If he can betray his wife, then he can betray his country.

    He needs to quit as Defence Secretary.
    Well I suppose we could get rid of Boris in a job lot.

    Bonus.

    Plus Boris went to Oxford, that place is a nest of traitors.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/kgbs-oxford-spy-recruiter-unmasked/news-story/eab1d3dd134f2528b036dff98da1f4a3
    Unlike the other place ?
    Which even has its own Wikipedia page.....
    The Five were always working for The UK.

    They duped the KGB.

    One day the truth about Burgess, Maclean, Philby, and Blunt will come out and we will say they were true British patriots.

    The Russians knew if you wanted to get control of the most influential people you needed to target the best uni in the country.
    If that's the accuracy of their targeting, I'm retrospectively much less fussed about the Cold War.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 26,638

    Nigelb said:

    alex. said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    If he can betray his wife, then he can betray his country.

    He needs to quit as Defence Secretary.
    Well I suppose we could get rid of Boris in a job lot.

    Bonus.

    Plus Boris went to Oxford, that place is a nest of traitors.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/kgbs-oxford-spy-recruiter-unmasked/news-story/eab1d3dd134f2528b036dff98da1f4a3
    Unlike the other place ?
    Which even has its own Wikipedia page.....
    The Five were always working for The UK.

    They duped the KGB.
    Which is why some of them ran away to Moscow?
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 991
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    A drunken kiss at a party is cheating now? Blimey.
    The pursuit afterwards is cheating not the drunken kiss.

    Whether or not he achieved his objective is immaterial. He’d broken his pledge of fidelity
    If you are not being entirely serious you are hiding it quite well. The man behaved stupidly. He paid the price. Any other considerations are really a matter for his wife to whom he is still married. Not much thought being given to her though.
    It’s not a sacking offence.

    But how can you trust a man that cheats on his wife to lead the country?
    Hmm! Well that's Boris' chances gone, not just once but many, many times over, under, sideways.... Allegedly!.... On second thoughts, didn't he and Ken Livingston have a bonk boasting competition once?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 18,494
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    A drunken kiss at a party is cheating now? Blimey.
    The pursuit afterwards is cheating not the drunken kiss.

    Whether or not he achieved his objective is immaterial. He’d broken his pledge of fidelity
    If you are not being entirely serious you are hiding it quite well. The man behaved stupidly. He paid the price. Any other considerations are really a matter for his wife to whom he is still married. Not much thought being given to her though.
    It’s not a sacking offence.

    But how can you trust a man that cheats on his wife to lead the country?
    Lloyd George did ok. So did Clinton. And FDR. Even Major did alright. Not sure the correlation you are referring to is made out.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 7,369

    Mr. Palmer, that seems like saying an upside of getting your arm cut off is losing weight to me, or praising King John for keeping the coffers filled (by extortionate taxes and fines).

    No, but perhaps it is like saying Mussolini got the trains to run on time. Most people (in any country) do not want to overthrow the government, so most people have nothing to fear from Vladimir or Saddam's secret police or China's ubiquitous cctv and tapping, or even the version some ministers want here -- whereas widespread petty corruption does directly impact the man in the street who needs frequently to grease the palms of the traffic police, for instance.
  • Nigelb said:

    alex. said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    If he can betray his wife, then he can betray his country.

    He needs to quit as Defence Secretary.
    Well I suppose we could get rid of Boris in a job lot.

    Bonus.

    Plus Boris went to Oxford, that place is a nest of traitors.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/kgbs-oxford-spy-recruiter-unmasked/news-story/eab1d3dd134f2528b036dff98da1f4a3
    Unlike the other place ?
    Which even has its own Wikipedia page.....
    The Five were always working for The UK.

    They duped the KGB.
    Which is why some of them ran away to Moscow?
    All part of the act.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 38,256
    OchEye said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    A drunken kiss at a party is cheating now? Blimey.
    The pursuit afterwards is cheating not the drunken kiss.

    Whether or not he achieved his objective is immaterial. He’d broken his pledge of fidelity
    If you are not being entirely serious you are hiding it quite well. The man behaved stupidly. He paid the price. Any other considerations are really a matter for his wife to whom he is still married. Not much thought being given to her though.
    It’s not a sacking offence.

    But how can you trust a man that cheats on his wife to lead the country?
    Hmm! Well that's Boris' chances gone, not just once but many, many times over, under, sideways.... Allegedly!.... On second thoughts, didn't he and Ken Livingston have a bonk boasting competition once?
    It would also have ruled out half the presidents of France and the USA from the top job
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 38,256
    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    A drunken kiss at a party is cheating now? Blimey.
    The pursuit afterwards is cheating not the drunken kiss.

    Whether or not he achieved his objective is immaterial. He’d broken his pledge of fidelity
    If you are not being entirely serious you are hiding it quite well. The man behaved stupidly. He paid the price. Any other considerations are really a matter for his wife to whom he is still married. Not much thought being given to her though.
    It’s not a sacking offence.

    But how can you trust a man that cheats on his wife to lead the country?
    Lloyd George did ok. So did Clinton. And FDR. Even Major did alright. Not sure the correlation you are referring to is made out.
    Plus JFK and LBJ of course
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 26,638

    Nigelb said:

    alex. said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    If he can betray his wife, then he can betray his country.

    He needs to quit as Defence Secretary.
    Well I suppose we could get rid of Boris in a job lot.

    Bonus.

    Plus Boris went to Oxford, that place is a nest of traitors.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/kgbs-oxford-spy-recruiter-unmasked/news-story/eab1d3dd134f2528b036dff98da1f4a3
    Unlike the other place ?
    Which even has its own Wikipedia page.....
    The Five were always working for The UK.

    They duped the KGB.
    Which is why some of them ran away to Moscow?
    All part of the act.
    Citation required......
  • Nigelb said:

    alex. said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    If he can betray his wife, then he can betray his country.

    He needs to quit as Defence Secretary.
    Well I suppose we could get rid of Boris in a job lot.

    Bonus.

    Plus Boris went to Oxford, that place is a nest of traitors.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/kgbs-oxford-spy-recruiter-unmasked/news-story/eab1d3dd134f2528b036dff98da1f4a3
    Unlike the other place ?
    Which even has its own Wikipedia page.....
    The Five were always working for The UK.

    They duped the KGB.
    Which is why some of them ran away to Moscow?
    All part of the act.
    Citation required......
    It’ll be confirmed to be true within the next decade or so.

    I’m more confident about this than I was about Mrs May being crap before the rest of the country caught up.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 26,638

    Nigelb said:

    alex. said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    If he can betray his wife, then he can betray his country.

    He needs to quit as Defence Secretary.
    Well I suppose we could get rid of Boris in a job lot.

    Bonus.

    Plus Boris went to Oxford, that place is a nest of traitors.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/kgbs-oxford-spy-recruiter-unmasked/news-story/eab1d3dd134f2528b036dff98da1f4a3
    Unlike the other place ?
    Which even has its own Wikipedia page.....
    The Five were always working for The UK.

    They duped the KGB.
    Which is why some of them ran away to Moscow?
    All part of the act.
    Citation required......
    It’ll be confirmed to be true within the next decade or so.

    I’m more confident about this than I was about Mrs May being crap before the rest of the country caught up.
    Mrs May’s ratings are on par with Corbyn’s and miles ahead of Blair & Cameron’s lows.....
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 398
    OchEye said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    A drunken kiss at a party is cheating now? Blimey.
    The pursuit afterwards is cheating not the drunken kiss.

    Whether or not he achieved his objective is immaterial. He’d broken his pledge of fidelity
    If you are not being entirely serious you are hiding it quite well. The man behaved stupidly. He paid the price. Any other considerations are really a matter for his wife to whom he is still married. Not much thought being given to her though.
    It’s not a sacking offence.

    But how can you trust a man that cheats on his wife to lead the country?
    Hmm! Well that's Boris' chances gone, not just once but many, many times over, under, sideways.... Allegedly!.... On second thoughts, didn't he and Ken Livingston have a bonk boasting competition once?
    Mr Johnson is exempt from this and many other codes of practice.'Boris will be Boris' is an undisputed defence.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 40,653
    In superb news, I have won a raffle to acquire a 1390/1400 Bohemian silver denar. Yes, I knew you'd all be excited :p

    [I used to collect coins as a child, so I can add it to my collection. It'll be the oldest by about 300-400 years].
  • Nigelb said:

    alex. said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    If he can betray his wife, then he can betray his country.

    He needs to quit as Defence Secretary.
    Well I suppose we could get rid of Boris in a job lot.

    Bonus.

    Plus Boris went to Oxford, that place is a nest of traitors.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/kgbs-oxford-spy-recruiter-unmasked/news-story/eab1d3dd134f2528b036dff98da1f4a3
    Unlike the other place ?
    Which even has its own Wikipedia page.....
    The Five were always working for The UK.

    They duped the KGB.
    Which is why some of them ran away to Moscow?
    All part of the act.
    Citation required......
    It’ll be confirmed to be true within the next decade or so.

    I’m more confident about this than I was about Mrs May being crap before the rest of the country caught up.
    Mrs May’s ratings are on par with Corbyn’s and miles ahead of Blair & Cameron’s lows.....
    It took Tony Blair a decade to see his ratings fall, Mrs May managed it in months.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 4,334

    Ms Greening playing a very straight bat on R4 supporting the PM.

    Yes, she has rather more class than the PM.
  • On topic, Gavin Williamson is toast if this woman comes out and publicly condemns him for inappropriate behaviour.

    As far I can see she’s kept her counsel.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 5,780
    Nigelb said:

    Ms Greening playing a very straight bat on R4 supporting the PM.

    Yes, she has rather more class than the PM.
    Hopefully she has a future chance in government. I haven't understood why May got rid of her at all.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,386
    Also if the Tory vote went up for over 50s, maybe the triple lock pension misstep didn't have any impact.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 1,172

    On topic, Gavin Williamson is toast if this woman comes out and publicly condemns him for inappropriate behaviour.

    As far I can see she’s kept her counsel.

    Some newspaper will back the money truck up to her front door.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 7,369

    Nigelb said:

    alex. said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    If he can betray his wife, then he can betray his country.

    He needs to quit as Defence Secretary.
    Well I suppose we could get rid of Boris in a job lot.

    Bonus.

    Plus Boris went to Oxford, that place is a nest of traitors.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/kgbs-oxford-spy-recruiter-unmasked/news-story/eab1d3dd134f2528b036dff98da1f4a3
    Unlike the other place ?
    Which even has its own Wikipedia page.....
    The Five were always working for The UK.

    They duped the KGB.
    Which is why some of them ran away to Moscow?
    All part of the act.
    Citation required......
    It is known that the KGB never fully trusted the Cambridge spies, who supplied literally incredible amounts of high-grade material. Apparently most of it was never even translated. After Burgess and Maclean fled, they were kept under more-or-less house arrest in an obscure resort for years before being moved to Moscow, and even there their flats were bugged and they were followed, and under curfew.

    Btw, on Youtube there are a couple of clips of Guy Burgess being interviewed and his strangulated vowels seem remarkable even for those decades. He sounds posher than the Queen.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 11,975

    Ms Greening playing a very straight bat on R4 supporting the PM.

    Negotiating Brexit is an impossible task.

    Straight bat indeed.
  • Nigelb said:

    Ms Greening playing a very straight bat on R4 supporting the PM.

    Yes, she has rather more class than the PM.
    Of course Justine Greening has more class, she’s from Yorkshire.

    The class people from Yorkshire show is only matched by our intelligence and modesty.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 13,295

    Nigelb said:

    Ms Greening playing a very straight bat on R4 supporting the PM.

    Yes, she has rather more class than the PM.
    Hopefully she has a future chance in government. I haven't understood why May got rid of her at all.
    Because she wouldn't go along with Timonthy's ideas about grammar schools and tuition fees?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 7,369

    alex. said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    If he can betray his wife, then he can betray his country.

    He needs to quit as Defence Secretary.
    Well I suppose we could get rid of Boris in a job lot.

    Bonus.

    Plus Boris went to Oxford, that place is a nest of traitors.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/kgbs-oxford-spy-recruiter-unmasked/news-story/eab1d3dd134f2528b036dff98da1f4a3
    Hold on. Arthur Wynn (for it is he) may have been the Oxford recruiter but his own first degree was from Cambridge.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 13,295
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Piecing things together - and this is a mixture of gossip, speculation and rumour:

    GW and the woman in question got drunk and snogged at a staff party

    He took it to mean more than it did and began sending her flowers. Lots of flowers.

    She was very upset and complained to her managers

    He chose to resign (sorry “part amicably”) rather than be fired

    How is that not stalking?

    So why has he refused to answer the Guardian's question if it was all straightforward.
    I don’t know what the Guardian’s question was.

    But the way he told it, it’s the tragic but ultimately redemptive story of a hero who strays from the path of righteousness but is forgiven by his pregnant wife.

    Sorry forgot: he didn’t mention his wife was pregnant when he cheated on her did he?
    A drunken kiss at a party is cheating now? Blimey.
    The pursuit afterwards is cheating not the drunken kiss.

    Whether or not he achieved his objective is immaterial. He’d broken his pledge of fidelity
    If you are not being entirely serious you are hiding it quite well. The man behaved stupidly. He paid the price. Any other considerations are really a matter for his wife to whom he is still married. Not much thought being given to her though.
    It’s not a sacking offence.

    But how can you trust a man that cheats on his wife to lead the country?
    Lloyd George did ok. So did Clinton. And FDR. Even Major did alright. Not sure the correlation you are referring to is made out.
    Plus JFK and LBJ of course
    We live in different times.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 13,295
    Surely the mistake here is that it perhaps wasn't the over 60s who were dismayed over dementia tax, but their middle aged children?

  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 991

    Nigelb said:

    This is beginning to smell a bit like Major's back to basics debacle.

    Although May announced no official campaign, her zero tolerance of anything which might be considered a history of harassment (while in many respects far more admirable than Major's risible gambit) has reaped relatively few political gains at some considerable cost.
    Meanwhile, Labour gets away with similar embarrassments by taking a more complacent attitude,.

    Labour is not in government. To put it bluntly, Labour is not news. That is also why no-one gives a damn that Labour is at least as muddled on Brexit as the Conservatives. Williamson matters because he might be Prime Minister by Easter, as might Boris or Hammond or even, dare whisper it, Theresa May.
    It looks more like Labour does not want to be in the news. Every time one of the papers comes out with an anti-LP line, they've managed it pretty well or ignored it, meanwhile the media spotlight remains sharply focused on the Tories, and that isn't a pretty sight.....
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 5,780

    Surely the mistake here is that it perhaps wasn't the over 60s who were dismayed over dementia tax, but their middle aged children?

    Well for a lot of people in their 30s/40s, they are banking on their parents dosh to retire on, so wouldn't suprise me. There's a risk that GenX become forgotten between the babyboomers and the Millenials.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 34,506
    @bbclaurak: Senior Brexiteer shop steward out trying to calm backbench nerves
This discussion has been closed.