Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » EU/Europe: The issue that’s cost the last 3 CON PMs their jobs

SystemSystem Posts: 3,967
edited February 14 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » EU/Europe: The issue that’s cost the last 3 CON PMs their jobs. Will TMay be next?

Britain's interest in Europe appears to rise (and fall) when the Conservatives are in (and out) of government. @ipsosmori pic.twitter.com/DKlfcFIepI

Read the full story here


Comments

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,872
    Labour are red.
    Tories are blue.
    Who'll win next time?
    Haven't a clue.

    And first?
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 4,835
    edited February 14
    Never write a meaningful first post on a new thread.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 18,555
    Europe devours Conservative leaders. Perhaps they are the babies.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 8,497
    It already has cost her her job. She just hasn't resigned yet to make it official.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 5,487
    A cunning plan. Get everyone to focus on Europe and they won't notice that the Tories are screwing up our public services and lining the pockets of their fat cat mates.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 5,487
    ydoethur said:

    It already has cost her her job. She just hasn't resigned yet to make it official.

    She's out-lasted another one. However her chances of out-lasting Merkel have diminished.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 492
    I always remember that Cameron pre-2010 said that backbench Tories should not bang on about Europe as it will prevent them from being elected to Government. Shame he did not follow his own advice a few years later as history will not look kindly on him I fear!

    Over a decade ago I remember talking to a lady and her husband about the country and where it was heading. They said we would likely have a civil war due to immigration, I think the referendum of 2016 was a mainly non - combatant civil war. I do not think the issue is resolved and politicians need to get real with the public on the reason the UK will need immigration in future years. It is all about demographics and the number of workers compared to those who are reliant on the state. Immigration is the only way to square this circle without doing painful things like putting up taxes or cutting services.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,116
    FPT:

    Mortimer said:

    FF43 said:

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    SunnyJim said:

    I think leavers are worrying slightly unnecessarily about Brexit initially leaving us a little more aligned with the EU than they would have preferred.


    The ratchet will only turn one way and with each passing GE there will be a move away rather than towards, especially if economically we are outperforming the EU.

    It may take the annihilation of the first party to offer re-joining in a GE manifesto to prove the point.

    This is a truism because if you are 100% aligned you can only become less aligned. Nevertheless I think the UK will be aligned with the EU in many ways where it doesn't merely shadow EU regulation because it thinks the specific regulation is a good idea or it doesn't care. The UK will need to commit to every part of the EU regulation, as it exists now and as it is brought in and changed in the future. The whole point of that alignment is to get national treatment in the EU and other countries that have signed up to the EU system. You won't get national treatment without committing to full alignment now and as the regulation changes.

    Effectively we commit to doing what we are told, which is very different from collective decision-making as we have as members of the European Union.
    In the same way Canada does what they are told?
    What's Canada got to do with it? We are not Canada, Timbuktoo or North Korea.
    Indeed not. We're far better customers of the EU than any of them.

    More seriously, 'close alignment' is the latest in a LONG list of things Remainers are stating must be retained. So far we've had SM and CU; I suspect the latest ditch will go the way of
    The last two.
    I think one of the things that isn't helping us is this idea that we MUST do this or that. There's no moral imperative here. Why can't people just tell us what their own preference is and argue the case for it - clean break/close alignment/second referendum.
    That is a tremendously astute point - and actually one that too many establishment Remainers haven't realised they're doing...
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 492

    ydoethur said:

    It already has cost her her job. She just hasn't resigned yet to make it official.

    She's out-lasted another one. However her chances of out-lasting Merkel have diminished.
    Another one is Arlene Foster - What on earth is somebody like her given her catastrophic waste of tax payer money still doing in the job?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 18,555
    Mortimer said:

    FPT:

    Mortimer said:

    FF43 said:

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    SunnyJim said:

    I think leavers are worrying slightly unnecessarily about Brexit initially leaving us a little more aligned with the EU than they would have preferred.


    The ratchet will only turn one way and with each passing GE there will be a move away rather than towards, especially if economically we are outperforming the EU.

    It may take the annihilation of the first party to offer re-joining in a GE manifesto to prove the point.

    This is a truism because if you are 100% aligned you can only become less aligned. Nevertheless I think the UK will be aligned with the EU in many ways where it doesn't merely shadow EU regulation because it thinks the specific regulation is a good idea or it doesn't care. The UK will need to commit to every part of the EU regulation, as it exists now and as it is brought in and changed in the future. The whole point of that alignment is to get national treatment in the EU and other countries that have signed up to the EU system. You won't get national treatment without committing to full alignment now and as the regulation changes.

    Effectively we commit to doing what we are told, which is very different from collective decision-making as we have as members of the European Union.
    In the same way Canada does what they are told?
    What's Canada got to do with it? We are not Canada, Timbuktoo or North Korea.
    Indeed not. We're far better customers of the EU than any of them.

    More seriously, 'close alignment' is the latest in a LONG list of things Remainers are stating must be retained. So far we've had SM and CU; I suspect the latest ditch will go the way of
    The last two.
    I think one of the things that isn't helping us is this idea that we MUST do this or that. There's no moral imperative here. Why can't people just tell us what their own preference is and argue the case for it - clean break/close alignment/second referendum.
    That is a tremendously astute point - and actually one that too many establishment Remainers haven't realised they're doing...
    It’s the Leavers who are using MUST.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 16,995
    Is Soubry a heavy smoker ? Just been on ITV with the yellowest teeth I’ve seen since the ‘70s.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 20,877
    Mugabe and Zuma out of office within 85 days of each other. I wonder what other leaders in that part of the world are thinking at the moment.
  • ydoethur said:

    It already has cost her her job. She just hasn't resigned yet to make it official.

    She's out-lasted another one. However her chances of out-lasting Merkel have diminished.
    Report tonight Merkel could have to face a new election. Concerns the coalition deal will fall
  • ydoethur said:

    It already has cost her her job. She just hasn't resigned yet to make it official.

    She's out-lasted another one. However her chances of out-lasting Merkel have diminished.
    Another one is Arlene Foster - What on earth is somebody like her given her catastrophic waste of tax payer money still doing in the job?
    Because she was voted into office, and by the way the DUP have not had any tax payers money pending an agreement on Stormont
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 8,497

    ydoethur said:

    It already has cost her her job. She just hasn't resigned yet to make it official.

    She's out-lasted another one. However her chances of out-lasting Merkel have diminished.
    Another one is Arlene Foster - What on earth is somebody like her given her catastrophic waste of tax payer money still doing in the job?
    Because she was voted into office, and by the way the DUP have not had any tax payers money pending an agreement on Stormont
    I think that was a reference to the scandal that led McGuinness to resign. Wasn't it £6 billon or some such figure spent inappropriately?
  • I always remember that Cameron pre-2010 said that backbench Tories should not bang on about Europe as it will prevent them from being elected to Government. Shame he did not follow his own advice a few years later as history will not look kindly on him I fear!

    Over a decade ago I remember talking to a lady and her husband about the country and where it was heading. They said we would likely have a civil war due to immigration, I think the referendum of 2016 was a mainly non - combatant civil war. I do not think the issue is resolved and politicians need to get real with the public on the reason the UK will need immigration in future years. It is all about demographics and the number of workers compared to those who are reliant on the state. Immigration is the only way to square this circle without doing painful things like putting up taxes or cutting services.

    What happens when the immigrants get old ?

    Get even more immigrants in perhaps ?

    Immigrants who are net recipients of money / users of public services / consumers of wealth do not square the circle, they instead make the circle even larger.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,116

    ydoethur said:

    It already has cost her her job. She just hasn't resigned yet to make it official.

    She's out-lasted another one. However her chances of out-lasting Merkel have diminished.
    Report tonight Merkel could have to face a new election. Concerns the coalition deal will fall
    I'm not surprised. Even the coalition talks have cost the SPD poll points...
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 492

    ydoethur said:

    It already has cost her her job. She just hasn't resigned yet to make it official.

    She's out-lasted another one. However her chances of out-lasting Merkel have diminished.
    Another one is Arlene Foster - What on earth is somebody like her given her catastrophic waste of tax payer money still doing in the job?
    Because she was voted into office, and by the way the DUP have not had any tax payers money pending an agreement on Stormont
    No, I am not talking about her deal to prop up May in the UK Parliament. You may not be aware of what I am referring too.

    I am talking about The Renewable Heat Incentive scandal (RHI scandal)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_Heat_Incentive_scandal

    She set it up and it has cost Taxpayers circa £500 Million.

  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    It already has cost her her job. She just hasn't resigned yet to make it official.

    She's out-lasted another one. However her chances of out-lasting Merkel have diminished.
    Another one is Arlene Foster - What on earth is somebody like her given her catastrophic waste of tax payer money still doing in the job?
    Because she was voted into office, and by the way the DUP have not had any tax payers money pending an agreement on Stormont
    I think that was a reference to the scandal that led McGuinness to resign. Wasn't it £6 billon or some such figure spent inappropriately?
    I think that is disputed but fair point
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,006
    Although Cameron lost his job because he lost the EU referendum, Thatcher lost her job because of the Poll Tax, and her "NO, NO NO" speech was only the trigger for Howe's resignation which in turn set in motion the chain of events leading to her departure. Equally, Major's government had been weakened by EU divisions, but the real cause of his departure was defeat in a general election cause by the popularity of Blair..

    Labour was in power when Wilson called the 1975 referendum, and Jeremy Corbyn is a key figure in bringing about Brexit. His failure to campaign effectively for Remain after 30 years of opposing the EU was a major cause of Brexit's victory.

    Labour has a lot to lose from Brexit. History shows that when people feel economically insecure they tend to support the Conservatives. Remainers are ironically making people fell insecure by predicting economic disaster and ironically may be helping the Tories.

    Labour has often had the bad luck of being in power at a time of economic crisis through no fault of its own. It collapsed in 1931 because of the World Depression. It lost power in 1951 because of the austerity it was forced to pursue after the Second World War. It was blamed for the inflation caused by the oil crisis in the 70s. It was blamed for the Banking Crisis 2008-10.

    In the unlikely event that Labour forms a government in 2022, and if Brexit leads to an economic downturn, Labour could well be blamed for it, especially if it is led by incompetents like Corbyn and McDonnell already pursuing hard left economic policies likely to damage the economy.
  • ydoethur said:

    It already has cost her her job. She just hasn't resigned yet to make it official.

    She's out-lasted another one. However her chances of out-lasting Merkel have diminished.
    Another one is Arlene Foster - What on earth is somebody like her given her catastrophic waste of tax payer money still doing in the job?
    Because she was voted into office, and by the way the DUP have not had any tax payers money pending an agreement on Stormont
    No, I am not talking about her deal to prop up May in the UK Parliament. You may not be aware of what I am referring too.

    I am talking about The Renewable Heat Incentive scandal (RHI scandal)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_Heat_Incentive_scandal

    She set it up and it has cost Taxpayers circa £500 Million.

    Yes I did misunderstand you but that issue is disputed I believe
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 4,745
    dixiedean said:

    Labour are red.
    Tories are blue.
    Who'll win next time?
    Haven't a clue.

    And first?

    Bravo on both scores

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 4,745
    Was it on his bike ride behind the iron curtain??

    With Comrade Diane
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 492

    I always remember that Cameron pre-2010 said that backbench Tories should not bang on about Europe as it will prevent them from being elected to Government. Shame he did not follow his own advice a few years later as history will not look kindly on him I fear!

    Over a decade ago I remember talking to a lady and her husband about the country and where it was heading. They said we would likely have a civil war due to immigration, I think the referendum of 2016 was a mainly non - combatant civil war. I do not think the issue is resolved and politicians need to get real with the public on the reason the UK will need immigration in future years. It is all about demographics and the number of workers compared to those who are reliant on the state. Immigration is the only way to square this circle without doing painful things like putting up taxes or cutting services.

    What happens when the immigrants get old ?

    Get even more immigrants in perhaps ?

    Immigrants who are net recipients of money / users of public services / consumers of wealth do not square the circle, they instead make the circle even larger.
    Don't shoot the messenger.
    I used to be against immigration until I realised I had been mislead for years by politicians. Tory Brexit politicians like Boris, Davis and Fox all agree on liberalised Immigration. Why do you think they advocate this? It is going to carry on and you are correct to say it is just deferring the problem, maybe we will get lucky and AI will replace the need for human migration?

    I am afraid you will become disillusioned with politics when you realise many politicians just say things to get elected and it is often the case they say things to one group of people and something entirely different to another set of people.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 16,995
    Jezza an enemy of the Uk -is this news ?
  • TGOHF said:

    Jezza an enemy of the Uk -is this news ?

    fake news.....
  • RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 277
    Floater said:

    Was it on his bike ride behind the iron curtain??

    With Comrade Diane
    His Stasi file still hasn't turned up...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 16,719
    I'm not sure this kind of stuff on Corbyn doesn't glamorise him.
  • My question is, sun splash, why now?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 10,511
    edited February 14
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 492

    I'm not sure this kind of stuff on Corbyn doesn't glamorise him.

    If I were Corbyn and it were not true I would invite all the journalists to a Revolution bar and give a press conference on it ( Revolution has a communist star as its sign). It would show he has a sense of humour and would not do him any harm with the 18 - 30 age group in my opinion. To be honest most people under 40 have very little understanding of how ruthless the Stasi and KGB were under Soviet rule.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,872

    My question is, sun splash, why now?

    The underwhelming reaction to BoJo's speech? Speculation on my part, but they gave him lots of gushing coverage today to be met with a collective meh.
    So pivot the narrative?
  • RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 277

    My question is, sun splash, why now?

    Does someone else have it? Perhaps this was a use-it-or-loose-it deal.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,116
    Mortimer said:

    ydoethur said:

    It already has cost her her job. She just hasn't resigned yet to make it official.

    She's out-lasted another one. However her chances of out-lasting Merkel have diminished.
    Report tonight Merkel could have to face a new election. Concerns the coalition deal will fall
    I'm not surprised. Even the coalition talks have cost the SPD poll points...
    The delegate conference only passed by less than 50-something %. Since then, they have dropped furthe rin the polls. The membership vote might be even closer....
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 4,646
    Outstanding cover from the Sun. They've uncovered that Corbyn was very left wing in his youth.

    Pause.

    I can't help thinking this was meant to be more incendiary... :(
  • viewcode said:

    Outstanding cover from the Sun. They've uncovered that Corbyn was very left wing in his youth.

    Pause.

    I can't help thinking this was meant to be more incendiary... :(

    Just in his youth ?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,116

    I'm not sure this kind of stuff on Corbyn doesn't glamorise him.

    Tipping off foreign spies about an impending clampdown on their activities? Very glamourous....

    Of course, when Trump is alleged to be in cahoots with Russians, those very same people who will be so relaxed about Corbyn are lighting the burning brands and collecting their pitchforks to drive the President from office.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 20,877
    Newsnight report:

    More gender-equal societies have less women in engineering and science occupations.
  • I always remember that Cameron pre-2010 said that backbench Tories should not bang on about Europe as it will prevent them from being elected to Government. Shame he did not follow his own advice a few years later as history will not look kindly on him I fear!

    Over a decade ago I remember talking to a lady and her husband about the country and where it was heading. They said we would likely have a civil war due to immigration, I think the referendum of 2016 was a mainly non - combatant civil war. I do not think the issue is resolved and politicians need to get real with the public on the reason the UK will need immigration in future years. It is all about demographics and the number of workers compared to those who are reliant on the state. Immigration is the only way to square this circle without doing painful things like putting up taxes or cutting services.

    What happens when the immigrants get old ?

    Get even more immigrants in perhaps ?

    Immigrants who are net recipients of money / users of public services / consumers of wealth do not square the circle, they instead make the circle even larger.
    Immigration is a mechanism to expand the economy. Another is to delay the retirement age. I wonder which is less palatable.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 492
    edited February 14
    dixiedean said:

    My question is, sun splash, why now?

    The underwhelming reaction to BoJo's speech? Speculation on my part, but they gave him lots of gushing coverage today to be met with a collective meh.
    So pivot the narrative?
    Why would the Czechs be interested in a non entity like Corbyn? Harold Wilson who was an MP from 1945 I could understand, I mention Wilson because rumours about him circulated for many years and Czech defectors were the source of information at the time. But Corbyn wasn't an MP until 1983 and he is hardly someone who could be described as a high achiever or destined for greatness.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Wilson_conspiracy_theories

    Sounds like it has been made up or they are using the old rumours from Wilsons time as a framework to undermine Corbyn. If it works that would be good as a moderate Labour leader may appear and save us from the political extremes that seem to have overpowered the political system.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 4,646
    viewcode said:

    Outstanding cover from the Sun. They've uncovered that Corbyn was very left wing in his youth.

    Pause.

    I can't help thinking this was meant to be more incendiary... :(

    Am I correct in thinking that the Conservative members of this noble burgh think that this is a killing blow to Corbyn, whereas for the more unaligned folk it's a bit...meh?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,116
    viewcode said:

    Outstanding cover from the Sun. They've uncovered that Corbyn was very left wing in his youth.

    Pause.

    I can't help thinking this was meant to be more incendiary... :(

    You could be very left wing without actively helping our enemies though.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 4,646

    viewcode said:

    Outstanding cover from the Sun. They've uncovered that Corbyn was very left wing in his youth.

    Pause.

    I can't help thinking this was meant to be more incendiary... :(

    Just in his youth ?
    We'll have to discuss Cantor's hierarchy of infinities again, I think... :)
  • I always remember that Cameron pre-2010 said that backbench Tories should not bang on about Europe as it will prevent them from being elected to Government. Shame he did not follow his own advice a few years later as history will not look kindly on him I fear!

    Over a decade ago I remember talking to a lady and her husband about the country and where it was heading. They said we would likely have a civil war due to immigration, I think the referendum of 2016 was a mainly non - combatant civil war. I do not think the issue is resolved and politicians need to get real with the public on the reason the UK will need immigration in future years. It is all about demographics and the number of workers compared to those who are reliant on the state. Immigration is the only way to square this circle without doing painful things like putting up taxes or cutting services.

    What happens when the immigrants get old ?

    Get even more immigrants in perhaps ?

    Immigrants who are net recipients of money / users of public services / consumers of wealth do not square the circle, they instead make the circle even larger.
    Immigration is a mechanism to expand the economy. Another is to delay the retirement age. I wonder which is less palatable.
    An increased number of people expands the economy even if the extra people do nothing other than eat, sleep and shit.

    There is a difference between increasing GDP and increasing GDP per head.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 16,116
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Outstanding cover from the Sun. They've uncovered that Corbyn was very left wing in his youth.

    Pause.

    I can't help thinking this was meant to be more incendiary... :(

    Am I correct in thinking that the Conservative members of this noble burgh think that this is a killing blow to Corbyn, whereas for the more unaligned folk it's a bit...meh?
    Just pushes the floaters a little further away..... But as everyone is already polarised, there are so few floaters.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 25,690
    edited February 14
    Not sure if any of you have seen Star Trek: Discovery on Netflix yet, let alone enjoyed it (I did, BTW!)

    Of course in the Star Trek "Mirror Universe", we don't have an EU and a referendum about Britain leaving it.

    What we have instead is the Brexit Empire, "a fascistic culture described as oppressive, racist and xenophobic, predicated on an unconditional hatred and rejection of anything and everything "other"." Despite covering the entire continent of Europe (not just the EU27 of our universe), The Empire is the antithesis of the EU in every way.

    Heroically standing up to the Brexit Empire are Emmanuel Macron of the French Resistance, and Angela Merkel of the German Resistance, along with Ambassadors Barnier and Juncker, who collectively coordinate efforts by Resistance cells all over Europe, with the eventual aim of restoring Freedom to all the occupied nations.

    Key among the Brexit Empire personnel include Captain Michael Burnham Smithson, Admiral Anna Soubry and Commissar Nick Clegg. But who is the head honcho of the Brexit Empire in this Mirror Universe? Who might be turned on by all this oppression, racism and xenophobia in an alternate dimension?

    Easy: our very own Alastair Meeks.

    Sorry, make that - Emperor Alastair Meeks Augustus Hungaricus Centaurius, Father of the Motherland, Overlord of France, Dominus of Germany, Rex Hispania.

    Anyway, just for a bit of harmless fun - most of you probably have no idea what I mean by "mirror universe". But remember, "Context is for Kings" :)
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 3,157
    dixiedean said:

    My question is, sun splash, why now?

    The underwhelming reaction to BoJo's speech? Speculation on my part, but they gave him lots of gushing coverage today to be met with a collective meh.
    So pivot the narrative?
    Yes, I was fully expecting The Sun to headline with Boris after all their preceding hype. This feels like a deliberate snub. Normally The Sun would have the self-confidence to big up a speech as epoch defining even if it wasn't really. They seem to be saying here, 'Go away Boris and come back when you've got something worthwhile.' I think they were expecting a lot more from Boris.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 4,646

    viewcode said:

    Outstanding cover from the Sun. They've uncovered that Corbyn was very left wing in his youth.

    Pause.

    I can't help thinking this was meant to be more incendiary... :(

    You could be very left wing without actively helping our enemies though.
    Indeed. But the Russians do not hold the same status as The Big Bad as it did in, say, the 80's. If the Sun had accused him of being in the pay of, say, Juncker, it would have been more damaging. It also begs the question that if Corbyn giving data to Russia is a crime, then how do we assess Trump, who has been accused of far worse?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 16,995

    I'm not sure this kind of stuff on Corbyn doesn't glamorise him.

    Depends how many pro-Democracy Czechs were caught and liquidated based on his info.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 5,892
    That's not surprising. Johnson is rowing back to May's unfortunate speech at Lancaster House, while May has moved on and become more realistic
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 4,646

    Not sure if any of you have seen Star Trek: Discovery on Netflix yet, let alone enjoyed it (I did, BTW!)

    Of course in the Star Trek "Mirror Universe", we don't have an EU and a referendum about Britain leaving it.

    What we have instead is the Brexit Empire, "a fascistic culture described as oppressive, racist and xenophobic, predicated on an unconditional hatred and rejection of anything and everything "other"." Despite covering the entire continent of Europe (not just the EU27 of our universe), The Empire is the antithesis of the EU in every way.

    Heroically standing up to the Brexit Empire are Emmanuel Macron of the French Resistance, and Angela Merkel of the German Resistance, along with Ambassadors Barnier and Juncker, who collectively coordinate efforts by Resistance cells all over Europe, with the eventual aim of restoring Freedom to all the occupied nations.

    Key among the Brexit Empire personnel include Captain Michael Burnham Smithson, Admiral Anna Soubry and Commissar Nick Clegg. But who is the head honcho of the Brexit Empire in this Mirror Universe? Who might be turned on by all this oppression, racism and xenophobia in an alternate dimension?

    Easy: our very own Alastair Meeks.

    Sorry, make that - Emperor Alastair Meeks Augustus Hungaricus Centaurius, Father of the Motherland, Overlord of France, Dominus of Germany, Rex Hispania.

    Anyway, just for a bit of harmless fun - most of you probably have no idea what I mean by "mirror universe". But remember, "Context is for Kings" :)

    Unfortunately I got all of that, even down to the Mirror Universe Imperial naming convention (incidentally, what did you think of the cameo from the USS Enterprise in the finale?) But did you really mean to depict OGH as a twentysomething black woman? Because....that's quite impressive, if a whole new world of crazy... :)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 16,719
    FF43 said:

    That's not surprising. Johnson is rowing back to May's unfortunate speech at Lancaster House, while May has moved on and become more realistic
    Just posting a couple more.

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 5,892
    edited February 14
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Outstanding cover from the Sun. They've uncovered that Corbyn was very left wing in his youth.

    Pause.

    I can't help thinking this was meant to be more incendiary... :(

    Am I correct in thinking that the Conservative members of this noble burgh think that this is a killing blow to Corbyn, whereas for the more unaligned folk it's a bit...meh?
    Corbyn mixed up with Cold War spies and digging up his personnel record at the Czech spy agency is a good old-fashioned newspaper scoop. The Sun deserves to put it on the front page.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 16,995
    edited February 14
    FF43 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Outstanding cover from the Sun. They've uncovered that Corbyn was very left wing in his youth.

    Pause.

    I can't help thinking this was meant to be more incendiary... :(

    Am I correct in thinking that the Conservative members of this noble burgh think that this is a killing blow to Corbyn, whereas for the more unaligned folk it's a bit...meh?
    Corbyn mixed up with Cold War spies and digging up his personnel record at the Czech spy agency is a good old-fashioned newspaper scoop. The Sun deserves to put it on the front page.
    It’s not a game changer but another drip to add to the others.

    Voters of a certain age will take more notice. And Le Carre readers.

    Also makes a nice change from endless piffle from Brexit deniers.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 3,157
    In hindsight, it would have been better for Theresa if Boris had gone rogue. By doing a 'Number Ten approved' effort that was also a bit crap, Boris has shifted the focus on to the government's Brexit failings. But perhaps that was his plan all along.
  • Floater said:
    Wrong question. Should be 'Anyone bothered?'
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 4,646
    Decimalisation was planned five years ahead of time, with an executive board appointed in the mid-60's and parallel coinage run side-by-side for a number of years until Decimal Day, with leaflets sent out and lessons in schools with toy coinage

    We are less that fourteen months from Brexit Day and Boris is wiffwhaffing generalities.

    I know that there are people on here who applaud Brexit on principle and those who deprecate it on same. But very few are looking at the logistics: what do we do, who do we need to employ, where do we need to deploy them? If we are to build a fence, where do we buy the chainlink from and who bangs in the concrete posts? Thousands of decisions like that need to be taken, and the possibility that they just aren't is beginning to worry me, as I've said a couple of times now.


  • FF43FF43 Posts: 5,892
    edited February 14
    I don't think the government will settle their Brexit position until well after we leave the EU. In the meantime, the amount of investment that is diverting from the UK to the continent is scary. FDIs were down 90% in 2017 compared with 2016 - idiot Liam Fox claimed it was a record-breaking year in 2017. Investment in motor manufacturing is down a half and these are supposedly boom times. Andreas Drombet the Bundesbank chief who was all for keeping the City in the European system for continuity has now given up and told banks based in Britain just get it over with and move to the rEU, there's no point hanging on

    FF43 said:

    That's not surprising. Johnson is rowing back to May's unfortunate speech at Lancaster House, while May has moved on and become more realistic
    Just posting a couple more.

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 4,530
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Outstanding cover from the Sun. They've uncovered that Corbyn was very left wing in his youth.

    Pause.

    I can't help thinking this was meant to be more incendiary... :(

    Am I correct in thinking that the Conservative members of this noble burgh think that this is a killing blow to Corbyn, whereas for the more unaligned folk it's a bit...meh?
    I don't remember a time when it was possible to call someone a "commie" without sounding risibly archaic, and I am 55. I imagine half the electorate couldn't say what it is short for.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 4,646
    FF43 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Outstanding cover from the Sun. They've uncovered that Corbyn was very left wing in his youth.

    Pause.

    I can't help thinking this was meant to be more incendiary... :(

    Am I correct in thinking that the Conservative members of this noble burgh think that this is a killing blow to Corbyn, whereas for the more unaligned folk it's a bit...meh?
    Corbyn mixed up with Cold War spies and digging up his personnel record at the Czech spy agency is a good old-fashioned newspaper scoop. The Sun deserves to put it on the front page.
    Which makes me wonder...who did the digging? The Sun don't have the staff nor inclination for digging of that type (not being funny, but journalism requiring researching archives is a dying art, if not actually dead)
  • viewcode said:

    Not sure if any of you have seen Star Trek: Discovery on Netflix yet, let alone enjoyed it (I did, BTW!)

    Of course in the Star Trek "Mirror Universe", we don't have an EU and a referendum about Britain leaving it.

    What we have instead is the Brexit Empire, "a fascistic culture described as oppressive, racist and xenophobic, predicated on an unconditional hatred and rejection of anything and everything "other"." Despite covering the entire continent of Europe (not just the EU27 of our universe), The Empire is the antithesis of the EU in every way.

    Heroically standing up to the Brexit Empire are Emmanuel Macron of the French Resistance, and Angela Merkel of the German Resistance, along with Ambassadors Barnier and Juncker, who collectively coordinate efforts by Resistance cells all over Europe, with the eventual aim of restoring Freedom to all the occupied nations.

    Key among the Brexit Empire personnel include Captain Michael Burnham Smithson, Admiral Anna Soubry and Commissar Nick Clegg. But who is the head honcho of the Brexit Empire in this Mirror Universe? Who might be turned on by all this oppression, racism and xenophobia in an alternate dimension?

    Easy: our very own Alastair Meeks.

    Sorry, make that - Emperor Alastair Meeks Augustus Hungaricus Centaurius, Father of the Motherland, Overlord of France, Dominus of Germany, Rex Hispania.

    Anyway, just for a bit of harmless fun - most of you probably have no idea what I mean by "mirror universe". But remember, "Context is for Kings" :)

    Unfortunately I got all of that, even down to the Mirror Universe Imperial naming convention (incidentally, what did you think of the cameo from the USS Enterprise in the finale?) But did you really mean to depict OGH as a twentysomething black woman? Because....that's quite impressive, if a whole new world of crazy... :)

    It was an unexpected cameo, but interesting none the less. I do note with interest that it was the Shatner-era movie style Enterprise (or very similar).

    BTW there was a real fungus called Prototaxites, about 400 million years back - and it grew to tree-like proportions!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototaxites
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,116

    dixiedean said:

    My question is, sun splash, why now?

    The underwhelming reaction to BoJo's speech? Speculation on my part, but they gave him lots of gushing coverage today to be met with a collective meh.
    So pivot the narrative?
    Yes, I was fully expecting The Sun to headline with Boris after all their preceding hype. This feels like a deliberate snub. Normally The Sun would have the self-confidence to big up a speech as epoch defining even if it wasn't really. They seem to be saying here, 'Go away Boris and come back when you've got something worthwhile.' I think they were expecting a lot more from Boris.
    Like I said last night, little the Sun have predicted politically has really come to fruition recently
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 16,719
    Mortimer said:

    dixiedean said:

    My question is, sun splash, why now?

    The underwhelming reaction to BoJo's speech? Speculation on my part, but they gave him lots of gushing coverage today to be met with a collective meh.
    So pivot the narrative?
    Yes, I was fully expecting The Sun to headline with Boris after all their preceding hype. This feels like a deliberate snub. Normally The Sun would have the self-confidence to big up a speech as epoch defining even if it wasn't really. They seem to be saying here, 'Go away Boris and come back when you've got something worthwhile.' I think they were expecting a lot more from Boris.
    Like I said last night, little the Sun have predicted politically has really come to fruition recently
    None of the papers have led with Boris, not even the Telegraph. It really was a flop.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,116
    FF43 said:

    I don't think the government will settle their Brexit position until well after we leave the EU. In the meantime, the amount of investment that is diverting from the UK to the continent is scary. FDIs were down 90% in 2017 compared with 2016 - idiot Liam Fox claimed it was a record-breaking year in 2017. Investment in motor manufacturing is down a half and these are supposedly boom times. Andreas Drombet the Bundesbank chief who was all for keeping the City in the European system for continuity has now given up and told banks based in Britain just get it over with and move to the rEU, there's no point hanging on

    FF43 said:

    That's not surprising. Johnson is rowing back to May's unfortunate speech at Lancaster House, while May has moved on and become more realistic
    Just posting a couple more.

    And yet they haven't....
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 1,872
    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Outstanding cover from the Sun. They've uncovered that Corbyn was very left wing in his youth.

    Pause.

    I can't help thinking this was meant to be more incendiary... :(

    Am I correct in thinking that the Conservative members of this noble burgh think that this is a killing blow to Corbyn, whereas for the more unaligned folk it's a bit...meh?
    I don't remember a time when it was possible to call someone a "commie" without sounding risibly archaic, and I am 55. I imagine half the electorate couldn't say what it is short for.
    Indeed, Thought the headline itself very ill-judged.
    "Commie Corbyn" is the rhetoric of the bloke at closing time that everyone backs away from.
    Rather like the Mail's 14 pages on Election Day.
    A good headline enhances the story. It intrigues the casual reader to investigate further.
    This deflects from it, in the sense that it only re-inforces pre-existing prejudices.
  • I am going to guess that corbyn wasn’t very important to the commie spies because after meeting with him they realised despite being a willing supporter he was as thick as pig shit and of limited use.
  • Of course the Czechs got a slightly more useful idiot in John Stonehouse.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 4,646
    edited February 15

    I do note with interest that it was the Shatner-era movie style Enterprise (or very similar).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototaxites

    Oh, I know some people who would argue with that... :)



    Unlike the spaceship designs in the early episodes of Disco which were all over the place - the D7 in "Chose your Pain" was so badly out it lends credence to the theory that the showrunners don't have the rights to the original designs - the Enterprise in "Will You Take My Hand" was tantalizingly close.

    Disco has reached 2257 but the TOS episode "The Cage" was set in 2254 so the designs should line up. And to my pleasure and surprise, the DIS Enterprise is pretty close, even down to stuff like the three not-windows at the front of the disk and the solid deflector dish. And some of the differences (the nacelles) can be retconned as a callback to Archer's Enterprise. If the redesigns were this good from the beginning, Disco wouldn't have caused so much crazy shit in the past year.

    [The pylons are still wrong, tho... :)]
  • Of course the Czechs got a slightly more useful idiot in John Stonehouse.

    You need Czechs and balances, natch.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,296
    GIN1138 said:
    Half price beef roasting joint. Anyone know a site where I can read page 6
  • viewcode said:

    I do note with interest that it was the Shatner-era movie style Enterprise (or very similar).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototaxites

    Oh, I know some people who would argue with that... :)



    Unlike the spaceship designs in the early episodes of Disco which were all over the place - the D7 in "Chose your Pain" was so badly out it lends credence to the theory that the showrunners don't have the rights to the original designs - the Enterprise in "Will You Take My Hand" was tantalizingly close.

    Disco has reached 2257 but the TOS episode "The Cage" was set in 2254 so the designs should line up. And to my pleasure and surprise, the DIS Enterprise is pretty close, even down to stuff like the three not-windows at the front of the disk and the solid deflector dish. And some of the differences (the nacelles) can be retconned as a callback to Archer's Enterprise. If the redesigns were this good from the beginning, Disco wouldn't have caused so much crazy shit in the past year.

    [The pylons are still wrong, tho... :)]


    The D7 class Klingon battle cruiser was used during the 2256 Federation-Klingon War, although some versions, such as those used as prison ships, had a different hull configuration to ones used in the following decade despite using the same designation. (DIS: "Choose Your Pain")


    http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/D7_class
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 4,646

    viewcode said:

    I do note with interest that it was the Shatner-era movie style Enterprise (or very similar).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototaxites

    Oh, I know some people who would argue with that... :)



    Unlike the spaceship designs in the early episodes of Disco which were all over the place - the D7 in "Chose your Pain" was so badly out it lends credence to the theory that the showrunners don't have the rights to the original designs - the Enterprise in "Will You Take My Hand" was tantalizingly close.

    Disco has reached 2257 but the TOS episode "The Cage" was set in 2254 so the designs should line up. And to my pleasure and surprise, the DIS Enterprise is pretty close, even down to stuff like the three not-windows at the front of the disk and the solid deflector dish. And some of the differences (the nacelles) can be retconned as a callback to Archer's Enterprise. If the redesigns were this good from the beginning, Disco wouldn't have caused so much crazy shit in the past year.

    [The pylons are still wrong, tho... :)]


    The D7 class Klingon battle cruiser was used during the 2256 Federation-Klingon War, although some versions, such as those used as prison ships, had a different hull configuration to ones used in the following decade despite using the same designation. (DIS: "Choose Your Pain")


    http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/D7_class
    Cough cough retcon cough cough... :)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,200
    Good morning everyone. Beautiful one here, just outside Bangkok.

    'Is there a man with soul so dead/who was not in his twenties, red?

    TBH, I'm not at all surprised that Corbyn, being the age he is, and in the job he did, and with the opinions he held, was, 40-50 years ago, approached by 'Agents of Moscow'.

    Or one could find someone to say that he had been!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 26,048
    edited February 15

    Good morning everyone. Beautiful one here, just outside Bangkok.

    'Is there a man with soul so dead/who was not in his twenties, red?

    TBH, I'm not at all surprised that Corbyn, being the age he is, and in the job he did, and with the opinions he held, was, 40-50 years ago, approached by 'Agents of Moscow'.

    Or one could find someone to say that he had been!

    in 1986....so 30 years ago, as an MP and 38 years old. So not a naive 18 year old in college.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 20,877
    edited February 15

    Good morning everyone. Beautiful one here, just outside Bangkok.

    'Is there a man with soul so dead/who was not in his twenties, red?

    TBH, I'm not at all surprised that Corbyn, being the age he is, and in the job he did, and with the opinions he held, was, 40-50 years ago, approached by 'Agents of Moscow'.

    Or one could find someone to say that he had been!

    Hello Bangkok.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,200

    Good morning everyone. Beautiful one here, just outside Bangkok.

    'Is there a man with soul so dead/who was not in his twenties, red?

    TBH, I'm not at all surprised that Corbyn, being the age he is, and in the job he did, and with the opinions he held, was, 40-50 years ago, approached by 'Agents of Moscow'.

    Or one could find someone to say that he had been!

    in 1986....so 30 years ago, as an MP and 38 years old. So not a naive 18 year old in college.
    Having looked at what appears to be the story, still not surprised. Or that he met the guy three times. Into, brief discussion, goodbye.
    Non story.

    As someone currently in Thailand, and with family and friends who live here, I'm much more concerned about the Blond Buffoon's' remark about the country in his speech, and how they may be interpreted here.

    Official Thailand is prickly about the unsavoury activities of some tourists, and some, it has to admitted, Thais.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,200
    AndyJS said:

    Good morning everyone. Beautiful one here, just outside Bangkok.

    'Is there a man with soul so dead/who was not in his twenties, red?

    TBH, I'm not at all surprised that Corbyn, being the age he is, and in the job he did, and with the opinions he held, was, 40-50 years ago, approached by 'Agents of Moscow'.

    Or one could find someone to say that he had been!

    Hello Bangkok.
    Hello London! Sadly, last full day here.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 1,172


    Official Thailand is prickly about the unsavoury activities of some tourists, and some, it has to admitted, Thais.

    Had a fabulous run ashore in Bangkok in the mid 90s when we trying to sell the FA2 to the Thai Navy. It ended with a 5am James Bond style tuk tuk chase through the streets (SK crew vs SHAR drivers), official complaints from the Thai police to the embassy, meeting without coffee with the Captain, notes pinned to personnel files, etc. Happy days...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 42,370

    I always remember that Cameron pre-2010 said that backbench Tories should not bang on about Europe as it will prevent them from being elected to Government. Shame he did not follow his own advice a few years later as history will not look kindly on him I fear!

    Over a decade ago I remember talking to a lady and her husband about the country and where it was heading. They said we would likely have a civil war due to immigration, I think the referendum of 2016 was a mainly non - combatant civil war. I do not think the issue is resolved and politicians need to get real with the public on the reason the UK will need immigration in future years. It is all about demographics and the number of workers compared to those who are reliant on the state. Immigration is the only way to square this circle without doing painful things like putting up taxes or cutting services.

    What happens when the immigrants get old ?

    Get even more immigrants in perhaps ?

    Immigrants who are net recipients of money / users of public services / consumers of wealth do not square the circle, they instead make the circle even larger.
    Don't shoot the messenger.
    I used to be against immigration until I realised I had been mislead for years by politicians. Tory Brexit politicians like Boris, Davis and Fox all agree on liberalised Immigration. Why do you think they advocate this? It is going to carry on and you are correct to say it is just deferring the problem, maybe we will get lucky and AI will replace the need for human migration?

    I am afraid you will become disillusioned with politics when you realise many politicians just say things to get elected and it is often the case they say things to one group of people and something entirely different to another set of people.
    I guess politicians look at the taxes a migrant generates and economic activity when they arrive. The 25 yr old Pole arriving here will take 40 years to get old by which time the politician won't care...
    Fundamentally though surely our dreadful productivity needs tackling tbh
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 26,048
    edited February 15
    the Oxfam official who replaced Mr van Hauwermeiren as the charity's Haiti country director was himself dismissed last year for 'inappropriate behaviour'. Damien Berrendorf was fired last year for mismanagement after allegations by whistleblowers – although they did not relate to sexual misconduct.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5393035/Pictured-Haiti-disgraced-Oxfam-director.html
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 20,877
    New opinion poll:

    "BMG’s latest voting intention poll finds Labour and Conservatives neck and neck on 40% of the vote. Conducted between 6th and 9th February, the exclusive survey on behalf of the Independent represents a three-point increase for the Conservatives from our last publicly reported poll in December, with no change to Labour’s figures – all changes within the margin of error."

    http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/bmg-independent-conservatives-labour-neck-neck-latest-voting-intention-poll/
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,200
    AndyJS said:

    New opinion poll:

    "BMG’s latest voting intention poll finds Labour and Conservatives neck and neck on 40% of the vote. Conducted between 6th and 9th February, the exclusive survey on behalf of the Independent represents a three-point increase for the Conservatives from our last publicly reported poll in December, with no change to Labour’s figures – all changes within the margin of error."

    http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/bmg-independent-conservatives-labour-neck-neck-latest-voting-intention-poll/

    I suggest that what the poll says is that we, the voting public, want our MP's to get on and do the job we pay them to do, and not fart about.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 4,334
    The EU have dropped their ridiculous 'punishment clause' from the draft transistion arrangements.
    Being spun as a U.K. win, of course, when it could realistically be interpreted as the EU giving a concession on a deliberate overreach that was merely put in there to be conceded during negotiation.

    We don't seem to get this negotiating lark....
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,095
    AndyJS said:

    New opinion poll:

    "BMG’s latest voting intention poll finds Labour and Conservatives neck and neck on 40% of the vote. Conducted between 6th and 9th February, the exclusive survey on behalf of the Independent represents a three-point increase for the Conservatives from our last publicly reported poll in December, with no change to Labour’s figures – all changes within the margin of error."

    http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/bmg-independent-conservatives-labour-neck-neck-latest-voting-intention-poll/

    This was the poll which Nick Palmer claimed was Labour coming back.!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 4,334
    Warren is still clearly pursuing a 2020 run...
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/02/elizabeth-warren-addresses-pocahontas-controversy-in-surprise-speech.html?
    ... and she handles the Native American ancestry controversy rather deftly.
  • AndyJS said:

    New opinion poll:

    "BMG’s latest voting intention poll finds Labour and Conservatives neck and neck on 40% of the vote. Conducted between 6th and 9th February, the exclusive survey on behalf of the Independent represents a three-point increase for the Conservatives from our last publicly reported poll in December, with no change to Labour’s figures – all changes within the margin of error."

    http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/bmg-independent-conservatives-labour-neck-neck-latest-voting-intention-poll/

    I suggest that what the poll says is that we, the voting public, want our MP's to get on and do the job we pay them to do, and not fart about.
    Ten out of Ten !
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 1,517
    Pulpstar said:

    I always remember that Cameron pre-2010 said that backbench Tories should not bang on about Europe as it will prevent them from being elected to Government. Shame he did not follow his own advice a few years later as history will not look kindly on him I fear!

    Over a decade ago I remember talking to a lady and her husband about the country and where it was heading. They said we would likely have a civil war due to immigration, I think the referendum of 2016 was a mainly non - combatant civil war. I do not think the issue is resolved and politicians need to get real with the public on the reason the UK will need immigration in future years. It is all about demographics and the number of workers compared to those who are reliant on the state. Immigration is the only way to square this circle without doing painful things like putting up taxes or cutting services.

    What happens when the immigrants get old ?

    Get even more immigrants in perhaps ?

    Immigrants who are net recipients of money / users of public services / consumers of wealth do not square the circle, they instead make the circle even larger.
    Don't shoot the messenger.
    I used to be against immigration until I realised I had been mislead for years by politicians. Tory Brexit politicians like Boris, Davis and Fox all agree on liberalised Immigration. Why do you think they advocate this? It is going to carry on and you are correct to say it is just deferring the problem, maybe we will get lucky and AI will replace the need for human migration?

    I am afraid you will become disillusioned with politics when you realise many politicians just say things to get elected and it is often the case they say things to one group of people and something entirely different to another set of people.
    I guess politicians look at the taxes a migrant generates and economic activity when they arrive. The 25 yr old Pole arriving here will take 40 years to get old by which time the politician won't care...
    Fundamentally though surely our dreadful productivity needs tackling tbh
    Productivity is the key thing. But it is hard so people prefer panaceas like Brexit.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 1,517
    Report on R4 right now saying that most small and medium sized businesses want to stay in the single market and customs union and to keep EU regulations.

    If you find this result surprising you don't understand business.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 2,038

    Report on R4 right now saying that most small and medium sized businesses want to stay in the single market and customs union and to keep EU regulations.

    If you find this result surprising you don't understand business.

    Indeed, wholesale change benefits larger companies who have the resources to adapt better to changed regulations. It’s a bit like how the smaller teams in F1 always fall behind in years where there are substantial changes to the rules and do better in years that are reasonably stable
  • Pulpstar said:

    I always remember that Cameron pre-2010 said that backbench Tories should not bang on about Europe as it will prevent them from being elected to Government. Shame he did not follow his own advice a few years later as history will not look kindly on him I fear!

    Over a decade ago I remember talking to a lady and her husband about the country and where it was heading. They said we would likely have a civil war due to immigration, I think the referendum of 2016 was a mainly non - combatant civil war. I do not think the issue is resolved and politicians need to get real with the public on the reason the UK will need immigration in future years. It is all about demographics and the number of workers compared to those who are reliant on the state. Immigration is the only way to square this circle without doing painful things like putting up taxes or cutting services.

    What happens when the immigrants get old ?

    Get even more immigrants in perhaps ?

    Immigrants who are net recipients of money / users of public services / consumers of wealth do not square the circle, they instead make the circle even larger.
    Don't shoot the messenger.
    I used to be against immigration until I realised I had been mislead for years by politicians. Tory Brexit politicians like Boris, Davis and Fox all agree on liberalised Immigration. Why do you think they advocate this? It is going to carry on and you are correct to say it is just deferring the problem, maybe we will get lucky and AI will replace the need for human migration?

    I am afraid you will become disillusioned with politics when you realise many politicians just say things to get elected and it is often the case they say things to one group of people and something entirely different to another set of people.
    I guess politicians look at the taxes a migrant generates and economic activity when they arrive. The 25 yr old Pole arriving here will take 40 years to get old by which time the politician won't care...
    Fundamentally though surely our dreadful productivity needs tackling tbh
    Productivity is the key thing. But it is hard so people prefer panaceas like Brexit.
    Or increasing immigration.

    And increased immigration of unskilled workers (let alone non-working layabouts) reduces productivity.

    Yet you regularly hear / read people saying "we need more unskilled immigrants to do the jobs".
  • Report on R4 right now saying that most small and medium sized businesses want to stay in the single market and customs union and to keep EU regulations.

    If you find this result surprising you don't understand business.

    Indeed, wholesale change benefits larger companies who have the resources to adapt better to changed regulations. It’s a bit like how the smaller teams in F1 always fall behind in years where there are substantial changes to the rules and do better in years that are reasonably stable
    LOL.

    Based on Ed Balls personally interviewing 80 small and medium sized businesses all of whom trade with the EU - unlike most SMEs which have no trade with the EU. Only 8% of UK businesses export directly to the EU and a further 14% are in a supply chain which ultimately exports to the EU.

    Not exactly meeting the exacting standards of a normal opinion poll.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 1,344

    Report on R4 right now saying that most small and medium sized businesses want to stay in the single market and customs union and to keep EU regulations.

    If you find this result surprising you don't understand business.

    Indeed, wholesale change benefits larger companies who have the resources to adapt better to changed regulations. It’s a bit like how the smaller teams in F1 always fall behind in years where there are substantial changes to the rules and do better in years that are reasonably stable
    LOL.

    Based on Ed Balls personally interviewing 80 small and medium sized businesses all of whom trade with the EU - unlike most SMEs which have no trade with the EU. Only 8% of UK businesses export directly to the EU and a further 14% are in a supply chain which ultimately exports to the EU.

    Not exactly meeting the exacting standards of a normal opinion poll.
    Tyndall’s Patent Autarchy.
    Coming to an Economy Near You!
This discussion has been closed.