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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Even Arron Banks now thinks we are heading for a second refere

SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited February 22 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Even Arron Banks now thinks we are heading for a second referendum

What I find interesting is that some Brexiteers seem to want one https://t.co/rxkbyCiWvx

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Can't see it myself
  • I could see a referendum on the deal though.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,676
    Banks and Farage never really wanted Leave to win anyway. They wanted a narrow Remain win that would lead to a UKIP surge. A second EU referendum with a small Remain winning margin would be ideal for them
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044

    There wont be a second referendum.

    These things will not be decided by the likes of Farage or Banks.

    In fact, there wont be one BECAUSE they say there will be one.

    I think its cruel to get remoaners hopes up only to dash them.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,179
    edited February 22
    What an inspiration Tessa Jowell is - as TM has responded to her appeal for more funding for brain cancer
  • Leave 52%
    Remain 48%

    :innocent:
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 20,386

    I could see a referendum on the deal though.

    Yes. The question is: what will be the question? Take the Deal or No Deal? Or Take the Deal or Remain?



  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 64,284
    edited February 22
    SeanT said:

    I could see a referendum on the deal though.

    Yes. The question is: what will be the question? Take the Deal or No Deal? Or Take the Deal or Remain?



    The following options

    1) Reject the deal and Remain

    2) Reject the deal and leave with no deal

    3) Accept the deal

    Conducted under AV
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 666
    stevef said:


    There wont be a second referendum.

    These things will not be decided by the likes of Farage or Banks.

    In fact, there wont be one BECAUSE they say there will be one.

    I think its cruel to get remoaners hopes up only to dash them.

    May won't want one as it will split her party.

    Corbyn won't want one as it will split him from his party - he was nearly toppled by the first one

    Arlene Foster won't want one as she backs a hardish Brexit

    As you say it doesn't matter what Banks or Farage or Adonis or Campbell thinks - the people likely to have the power to require one don't want one.

    And that assumes anyone could even agree on the question. Deal or no deal but either way we leave can surely be the only option on the ballot paper - we have already voted to leave and it will be too late to stop it.

    We are leaving - it's just how that is to be decided.
  • SeanT said:

    I could see a referendum on the deal though.

    Yes. The question is: what will be the question? Take the Deal or No Deal? Or Take the Deal or Remain?



    The following options

    1) Reject the deal and Remain

    2) Reject the deal and leave with no deal

    3) Accept the deal

    Conducted under AV
    Adult Videos? :open_mouth:
  • TSE have you ever googled "Japanese AV idol"?

    Suffice to say, it's NSFW :lol:
  • I am shocked.

    May U-turns on EU migrant rights.

    Any EU citizens who move to the UK during the transition will be allowed to stay permanently.
  • I am shocked.

    May U-turns on EU migrant rights.

    Any EU citizens who move to the UK during the transition will be allowed to stay permanently.

    Good
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 666
    edited February 22

    SeanT said:

    I could see a referendum on the deal though.

    Yes. The question is: what will be the question? Take the Deal or No Deal? Or Take the Deal or Remain?



    The following options

    1) Reject the deal and Remain

    2) Reject the deal and leave with no deal

    3) Accept the deal

    Conducted under AV
    What is the deal if we remain?

    The EU today are already talking about removing our rebate if transition goes on too long - what is to say they won't demand concessions if we decide to withdraw article 50 and remain. The other 27 think the rebate is unfair - and if we went cap in hand grovelling to stay in humiliating fashion why wouldn't they extract their pound of flesh. The status quo may well not be an option - so we might need a third vote if 1 won.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,306

    I am shocked.

    May U-turns on EU migrant rights.

    Any EU citizens who move to the UK during the transition will be allowed to stay permanently.


    That picture of the owl needs a caption competition.

  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 6,793

    I am shocked.

    May U-turns on EU migrant rights.

    Any EU citizens who move to the UK during the transition will be allowed to stay permanently.

    For someone as cautious as Mrs May is, she also seems to have a habit of just blurting things out before she's thought through whether she can actually deliver them.
  • I am shocked.

    May U-turns on EU migrant rights.

    Any EU citizens who move to the UK during the transition will be allowed to stay permanently.


    That picture of the owl needs a caption competition.

    Wonderful photograph
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 6,793

    I am shocked.

    May U-turns on EU migrant rights.

    Any EU citizens who move to the UK during the transition will be allowed to stay permanently.


    That picture of the owl needs a caption competition.

    "Theresa May at 10pm on 8th June 2017"
  • I am shocked.

    May U-turns on EU migrant rights.

    Any EU citizens who move to the UK during the transition will be allowed to stay permanently.


    That picture of the owl needs a caption competition.

    "I am not a number - I am a FREE OWL!"
  • Danny565 said:

    I am shocked.

    May U-turns on EU migrant rights.

    Any EU citizens who move to the UK during the transition will be allowed to stay permanently.

    For someone as cautious as Mrs May is, she also seems to have a habit of just blurting things out before she's thought through whether she can actually deliver them.
    Why can't she deliver that promise
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,629
    Hopefully the leaked documents are from a more reliable force than the Czech Spy.

    Could Sun Politics check if EU is claiming to have organised Live Aid?
  • Lets wait and see rather than taking rumours as fact. I await TM speech in the next few days
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,465
    Another Referendum would just crystallize what many - Remain voters amongst them - really, really fucking hate about the EU.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,465

    I am shocked.

    May U-turns on EU migrant rights.

    Any EU citizens who move to the UK during the transition will be allowed to stay permanently.


    That picture of the owl needs a caption competition.

    Labour delivers!
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,466
    I just finished reading 'Fall Out' and all I want to do is curl up in the foetal position and wait for our political masters to destroy the country. May or Corbyn, I don't care, 'tis all one to me now.

    Superb book.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 1,788
    edited February 22
    FPT:

    AndyJS said:
    So out of all the 1000s of genuine cases, the authorities manage to pick a case that isn't....
    Not as simple as that.

    Last year only 137 FGM cases were recorded in under 18's (table 2.2), and 159 done in the UK (table 2.7) apparantly many either unproven (as in this case) or labial piercings.

    87% of recorded FGM cases are reported by midwives, with an average age age of presentation of 31 years, with the FGM having occurred decades previously in East Africa.

    137 is too many but we should base our discussions on facts.

    https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30015
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,086

    Lets wait and see rather than taking rumours as fact. I await TM speech in the next few days
    ROFLMAO... Please keep up the comedy. .
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 43,050

    I could see a referendum on the deal though.

    I can't.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 2,028
    Please God no 2nd referendum. If we get one it will however not be the EU's fault but ours. We voted Leave without any agreed plan or destination in mind. The endless debate on here ought to have been had before we voted.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,629
    John Prescott OMG

    Just retire now your day has been and gone.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 1,788
    dixiedean said:

    Please God no 2nd referendum. If we get one it will however not be the EU's fault but ours. We voted Leave without any agreed plan or destination in mind. The endless debate on here ought to have been had before we voted.

    Quite right. It is not the EU calling for another vote, it is British politicians.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,629
    Maidenhead LD gain

    Where were the National Bocialists
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,860

    Maidenhead LD gain

    Where were the National Bocialists

    Maidenhead or Minehead?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 6,425
    edited February 22
    Divergence doesn't make sense as a policy. You are either compliant with the other party's regulation for goods and services, or you are not. If compliant you can demand your goods and services are treated the same way as the other party's. If you are not compliant you can apply whatever regulation you want but you won't get national treatment on your goods and services.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 2,028
    Old Leake and Wrangle has to be a serious contender for Ward name of the Year! Con hold btw.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,713

    What an inspiration Tessa Jowell is - as TM has responded to her appeal for more funding for brain cancer

    + 100
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,476
    edited February 22
    Foxy said:

    FPT:

    AndyJS said:
    So out of all the 1000s of genuine cases, the authorities manage to pick a case that isn't....
    Not as simple as that.

    Last year only 137 FGM cases were recorded in under 18's (table 2.2), and 159 done in the UK (table 2.7) apparantly many either unproven (as in this case) or labial piercings.

    87% of recorded FGM cases are reported by midwives, with an average age age of presentation of 31 years, with the FGM having occurred decades previously in East Africa.

    137 is too many but we should base our discussions on facts.

    https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30015
    England had 5,700 recorded cases of FGM in 2015-16, figures show

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/21/england-fgm-cases-recorded-2015-2016

    Yes there are issues with this higher number, but I don't think anybody really believe it is just 150 a year.

    I am not going to debate this further, as we know your opinion on this over many many posts arguing with SeanT.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,475
    FF43 said:

    Divergence doesn't make sense as a policy. You are either compliant with the other party's regulation for goods and services, or you are not. If compliant you can demand your goods and services are treated the same way as the other party's. If you are not compliant you can apply whatever regulation you want but you won't get national treatment on your goods and services.
    Divergence makes lots of sense when a huge proportion of your businesses produce for domestic consumption.

    Divergence makes lots of sense when you're one of the biggest economies in the world and need to be able to use governmental and regulatory levers to preserve and progress this

    And, of course, the ability to diverge makes lots of sense when the party you're discussing with are petrified of you diverging.



  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,475
    Not often I say this, but everyone on newsnight tonight is speaking well, relatively respectfully, having engaged minds.

    Prezza has a tremendous sense of humour. He has lost two referenda on the EU, poor chap!
  • Why have QT got a "journalist" from a Corbyn loony left website which was recently struck off by Companies House for non-compliance?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 1,788
    edited February 22

    Foxy said:

    FPT:

    AndyJS said:
    So out of all the 1000s of genuine cases, the authorities manage to pick a case that isn't....
    Not as simple as that.

    Last year only 137 FGM cases were recorded in under 18's (table 2.2), and 159 done in the UK (table 2.7) apparantly many either unproven (as in this case) or labial piercings.

    87% of recorded FGM cases are reported by midwives, with an average age age of presentation of 31 years, with the FGM having occurred decades previously in East Africa.

    137 is too many but we should base our discussions on facts.

    https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30015
    England had 5,700 recorded cases of FGM in 2015-16, figures show

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/21/england-fgm-cases-recorded-2015-2016

    Yes there are issues with this higher number, but I don't think anybody really believe it is just 150 a year.

    I am not going to debate this further, as we know your opinion on this over many many posts arguing with SeanT.
    Just look at the official figures rather than a second hand report. The figures that I quoted were last years, and only 137 cases recorded in the UK in under 18's.

    https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30015

    If you have a source substantiating a figure of thousands of children per year then please cite it. As I pointed out the vast majority of recorded cases are recorded decades later by midwives at an average age of 31.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,476
    edited February 22
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT:

    AndyJS said:
    So out of all the 1000s of genuine cases, the authorities manage to pick a case that isn't....
    Not as simple as that.

    Last year only 137 FGM cases were recorded in under 18's (table 2.2), and 159 done in the UK (table 2.7) apparantly many either unproven (as in this case) or labial piercings.

    87% of recorded FGM cases are reported by midwives, with an average age age of presentation of 31 years, with the FGM having occurred decades previously in East Africa.

    137 is too many but we should base our discussions on facts.

    https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30015
    England had 5,700 recorded cases of FGM in 2015-16, figures show

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/21/england-fgm-cases-recorded-2015-2016

    Yes there are issues with this higher number, but I don't think anybody really believe it is just 150 a year.

    I am not going to debate this further, as we know your opinion on this over many many posts arguing with SeanT.
    Just look at the official figures rather than a second hand report. The figures that I quoted were last years, and only 137 cases recorded in the UK in under 18's.

    https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30015

    If you have a source substantiating a figure of thousands of children per year then please cite it. As I pointed out the vast majority of recorded cases are recorded decades later by midwives at an average age of 31.
    Your figures are only those people presenting themselves to the NHS.

    We know you don't think it is a big issue, many others disagree with you.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,629

    Why have QT got a "journalist" from a Corbyn loony left website which was recently struck off by Companies House for non-compliance?

    Why not?
  • Spin me right round...right round baby...

    Cabinet Brexiters are happy following today’s Chequers summit, with one senior Brexiter telling Guido: “Divergence has won”.

    https://order-order.com/2018/02/22/cabinet-brexiters-happy-chequers-agreement-divergence/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 1,788

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT:

    AndyJS said:
    So out of all the 1000s of genuine cases, the authorities manage to pick a case that isn't....
    Not as simple as that.

    Last year only 137 FGM cases were recorded in under 18's (table 2.2), and 159 done in the UK (table 2.7) apparantly many either unproven (as in this case) or labial piercings.

    87% of recorded FGM cases are reported by midwives, with an average age age of presentation of 31 years, with the FGM having occurred decades previously in East Africa.

    137 is too many but we should base our discussions on facts.

    https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30015
    England had 5,700 recorded cases of FGM in 2015-16, figures show

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/21/england-fgm-cases-recorded-2015-2016

    Yes there are issues with this higher number, but I don't think anybody really believe it is just 150 a year.

    I am not going to debate this further, as we know your opinion on this over many many posts arguing with SeanT.
    Just look at the official figures rather than a second hand report. The figures that I quoted were last years, and only 137 cases recorded in the UK in under 18's.

    https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30015

    If you have a source substantiating a figure of thousands of children per year then please cite it. As I pointed out the vast majority of recorded cases are recorded decades later by midwives at an average age of 31.
    Your figures are only those people presenting themselves to the NHS.

    We know you don't think it is a big issue, many others disagree with you.
    There is mandatory recording of FGM cases on this register for all cases recorded by all agencies. Are you suggesting that some official bodies are breaking the law by failing to report? If so, what is your evidence?

    I know that there is an "everybody know there are thousands" meme amongst right wing populists, but I do not regard that as evidence.

    137 is too many, but perhaps accounts for why trials are rare.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,476
    edited February 22

    Why have QT got a "journalist" from a Corbyn loony left website which was recently struck off by Companies House for non-compliance?

    Why not?
    Well for starters their "journalists" were involved in spreading untruths about the government cover ups about Grenfell tower.

    https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20170617/281500751241946

    I thought the BBC were against giving those spreading Fake News a platform.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,476
    edited February 22
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT:

    AndyJS said:
    So out of all the 1000s of genuine cases, the authorities manage to pick a case that isn't....
    Not as simple as that.

    Last year only 137 FGM cases were recorded in under 18's (table 2.2), and 159 done in the UK (table 2.7) apparantly many either unproven (as in this case) or labial piercings.

    87% of recorded FGM cases are reported by midwives, with an average age age of presentation of 31 years, with the FGM having occurred decades previously in East Africa.

    137 is too many but we should base our discussions on facts.

    https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30015
    England had 5,700 recorded cases of FGM in 2015-16, figures show

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/21/england-fgm-cases-recorded-2015-2016

    Yes there are issues with this higher number, but I don't think anybody really believe it is just 150 a year.

    I am not going to debate this further, as we know your opinion on this over many many posts arguing with SeanT.
    Just look at the official figures rather than a second hand report. The figures that I quoted were last years, and only 137 cases recorded in the UK in under 18's.

    https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30015

    If you have a source substantiating a figure of thousands of children per year then please cite it. As I pointed out the vast majority of recorded cases are recorded decades later by midwives at an average age of 31.
    Your figures are only those people presenting themselves to the NHS.

    We know you don't think it is a big issue, many others disagree with you.
    There is mandatory recording of FGM cases on this register for all cases recorded by all agencies. Are you suggesting that some official bodies are breaking the law by failing to report? If so, what is your evidence?

    I know that there is an "everybody know there are thousands" meme amongst right wing populists, but I do not regard that as evidence.

    137 is too many, but perhaps accounts for why trials are rare.
    By right wing populists, you are including the Guardian? I don't think it is a right / left thing. The likes of the Guardian and BBC have been big on topic.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 2,028

    Why have QT got a "journalist" from a Corbyn loony left website which was recently struck off by Companies House for non-compliance?

    Why not?
    Well for starters their "journalists" were involved in spreading untruths about the government cover ups about Grenfell tower.

    https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20170617/281500751241946

    I thought the BBC were against giving those spreading Fake News a platform.
    They'll be banning Sun journalists next.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT:

    AndyJS said:
    So out of all the 1000s of genuine cases, the authorities manage to pick a case that isn't....
    Not as simple as that.

    Last year only 137 FGM cases were recorded in under 18's (table 2.2), and 159 done in the UK (table 2.7) apparantly many either unproven (as in this case) or labial piercings.

    87% of recorded FGM cases are reported by midwives, with an average age age of presentation of 31 years, with the FGM having occurred decades previously in East Africa.

    137 is too many but we should base our discussions on facts.

    https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30015
    England had 5,700 recorded cases of FGM in 2015-16, figures show

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/21/england-fgm-cases-recorded-2015-2016

    Yes there are issues with this higher number, but I don't think anybody really believe it is just 150 a year.

    I am not going to debate this further, as we know your opinion on this over many many posts arguing with SeanT.
    Just look at the official figures rather than a second hand report. The figures that I quoted were last years, and only 137 cases recorded in the UK in under 18's.

    https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30015

    If you have a source substantiating a figure of thousands of children per year then please cite it. As I pointed out the vast majority of recorded cases are recorded decades later by midwives at an average age of 31.
    Your figures are only those people presenting themselves to the NHS.

    We know you don't think it is a big issue, many others disagree with you.
    There is mandatory recording of FGM cases on this register for all cases recorded by all agencies. Are you suggesting that some official bodies are breaking the law by failing to report? If so, what is your evidence?

    I know that there is an "everybody know there are thousands" meme amongst right wing populists, but I do not regard that as evidence.

    137 is too many, but perhaps accounts for why trials are rare.
    Are The Guardian and the Royal College of Nursing "right wing populists"? They're the sourced credited with the thousands quote: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/21/england-fgm-cases-recorded-2015-2016
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,476
    edited February 22
    dixiedean said:

    Why have QT got a "journalist" from a Corbyn loony left website which was recently struck off by Companies House for non-compliance?

    Why not?
    Well for starters their "journalists" were involved in spreading untruths about the government cover ups about Grenfell tower.

    https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20170617/281500751241946

    I thought the BBC were against giving those spreading Fake News a platform.
    They'll be banning Sun journalists next.
    Do they have the Sun on?...I never watch QT these days, as it seems most week they appear to have some z-list celeb on who knows f##k all about f##k all.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,224

    I am shocked.

    May U-turns on EU migrant rights.

    Any EU citizens who move to the UK during the transition will be allowed to stay permanently.


    That picture of the owl needs a caption competition.

    Labour delivers!
    Lol! Funny.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 1,788

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT:

    AndyJS said:
    So out of all the 1000s of genuine cases, the authorities manage to pick a case that isn't....
    Not as simple as that.

    https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30015
    England had 5,700 recorded cases of FGM in 2015-16, figures show

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/21/england-fgm-cases-recorded-2015-2016

    Yes there are issues with this higher number, but I don't think anybody really believe it is just 150 a year.

    I am not going to debate this further, as we know your opinion on this over many many posts arguing with SeanT.
    Just look at the official figures rather than a second hand report. The figures that I quoted were last years, and only 137 cases recorded in the UK in under 18's.

    https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30015

    If you have a source substantiating a figure of thousands of children per year then please cite it. As I pointed out the vast majority of recorded cases are recorded decades later by midwives at an average age of 31.
    Your figures are only those people presenting themselves to the NHS.

    We know you don't think it is a big issue, many others disagree with you.
    There is mandatory recording of FGM cases on this register for all cases recorded by all agencies. Are you suggesting that some official bodies are breaking the law by failing to report? If so, what is your evidence?

    I know that there is an "everybody know there are thousands" meme amongst right wing populists, but I do not regard that as evidence.

    137 is too many, but perhaps accounts for why trials are rare.
    By right wing populists, you are including the Guardian?
    Their headline figure is correct if you include all cases presenting decades later as adults. Do you think these 31 year olds should have their elderly parents prosecuted? Even though the FGM occurred decades before in another country?

    If we look at new suspected FGM cases in children, that could be regarded as possible child abuse cases, there were 137 last year. That is why prosecutions are rare, not some bizarre cover up.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,476
    edited February 23
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT:

    AndyJS said:
    So out of all the 1000s of genuine cases, the authorities manage to pick a case that isn't....
    Not as simple as that.

    https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30015
    England had 5,700 recorded cases of FGM in 2015-16, figures show

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/21/england-fgm-cases-recorded-2015-2016

    Yes there are issues with this higher number, but I don't think anybody really believe it is just 150 a year.

    I am not going to debate this further, as we know your opinion on this over many many posts arguing with SeanT.
    Just look at the official figures rather than a second hand report. The figures that I quoted were last years, and only 137 cases recorded in the UK in under 18's.

    https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30015

    If you have a source substantiating a figure of thousands of children per year then please cite it. As I pointed out the vast majority of recorded cases are recorded decades later by midwives at an average age of 31.
    Your figures are only those people presenting themselves to the NHS.

    We know you don't think it is a big issue, many others disagree with you.
    There is mandatory recording of FGM cases on this register for all cases recorded by all agencies. Are you suggesting that some official bodies are breaking the law by failing to report? If so, what is your evidence?

    I know that there is an "everybody know there are thousands" meme amongst right wing populists, but I do not regard that as evidence.

    137 is too many, but perhaps accounts for why trials are rare.
    By right wing populists, you are including the Guardian?
    Their headline figure is correct if you include all cases presenting decades later as adults. Do you think these 31 year olds should have their elderly parents prosecuted? Even though the FGM occurred decades before in another country?

    If we look at new suspected FGM cases in children, that could be regarded as possible child abuse cases, there were 137 last year. That is why prosecutions are rare, not some bizarre cover up.

    Don't put words in my mouth, I never suggested some bizarre cover up. Difficult problem to identify and incompetence.

    End of discussion on this. As I don't want to get put on the naughty step as others who have been previously.
  • SeanT said:

    I could see a referendum on the deal though.

    Yes. The question is: what will be the question? Take the Deal or No Deal? Or Take the Deal or Remain?



    The following options

    1) Reject the deal and Remain

    2) Reject the deal and leave with no deal

    3) Accept the deal

    Conducted under AV
    Three options referendum is far too complicated for the great unwashed to compute.


    It is better that we muddle on through to cliff edge Brexit. If it works and we agree fantastic unilateral trade deals - great! If it is the fiasco we Remainers predict, a more enlightened future government goes cap in hand to the EU and asks if we can rejoin, albeit on worse terms than we left, maybe a decade after we leave.

    If we are ever to row back on June 2016 the Brexit experiment has to be seen to have well and truly failed. If by some remote chance it works great!

    As a Brexit related anecdotal aside I have spent the week in Lisburn, general consensus is Arlene has all but killed the Good Friday Agreement to the joy of Unionists. Nationalists tended to agree but without the enthusiasm. The blame for them was placed firmly at the feet of Mrs May and this is twofold, her inability to stand up to the DUP, and her inability to control the JRM/Boris faction. The Nationalists I spoke to detest Arlene but suggest she has run rings around Theresa. General understanding from both camps is Mrs May has wildly underestimated the ramifications of getting Northern Ireland wrong. Republicans and people who just want to get on with life consider Mrs May to be very politically naive.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 1,788

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT:

    AndyJS said:
    So out of all the 1000s of genuine cases, the authorities manage to pick a case that isn't....
    Not as simple as that.

    Last year only 137 FGM cases were recorded in under 18's (table 2.2), and 159 done in the UK (table 2.7) apparantly many either unproven (as in this case) or labial piercings.

    87% of recorded FGM cases are reported by midwives, with an average age age of presentation of 31 years, with the FGM having occurred decades previously in East Africa.

    137 is too many but we should base our discussions on facts.

    https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30015
    England had 5,700 recorded cases of FGM in 2015-16, figures show

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/21/england-fgm-cases-recorded-2015-2016

    Yes there are issues with this higher number, but I don't think anybody really believe it is just 150 a year.

    I am not going to debate this further, as we know your opinion on this over many many posts arguing with SeanT.
    Just look at the

    https://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30015

    If you have a source substantiating a figure of thousands of children per year then please cite it. As I pointed out the vast majority of recorded cases are recorded decades later by midwives at an average age of 31.
    Your figures are only those people presenting themselves to the NHS.

    We know you don't think it is a big issue, many others disagree with you.
    There is mandatory recording of FGM cases on this register for all cases recorded by all agencies. Are you suggesting that some official bodies are breaking the law by failing to report? If so, what is your evidence?

    I know that there is an "everybody know there are thousands" meme amongst right wing populists, but I do not regard that as evidence.

    137 is too many, but perhaps accounts for why trials are rare.
    Are The Guardian and the Royal College of Nursing "right wing populists"? They're the sourced credited with the thousands quote: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/21/england-fgm-cases-recorded-2015-2016
    Thousands a year PRESENTING AS ADULTS!

    If you have a reliable source that thousands of UK CHILDREN are having FGM, then I would be interested to read it.

    Adults are worth recording so social workers can protect the next generation.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 2,028

    dixiedean said:

    Why have QT got a "journalist" from a Corbyn loony left website which was recently struck off by Companies House for non-compliance?

    Why not?
    Well for starters their "journalists" were involved in spreading untruths about the government cover ups about Grenfell tower.

    https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20170617/281500751241946

    I thought the BBC were against giving those spreading Fake News a platform.
    They'll be banning Sun journalists next.
    Do they have the Sun on?...I never watch QT these days, as it seems most week they appear to have some z-list celeb on who knows f##k all about f##k all.
    Me neither. Who watches it? I lost interest in QT years ago, and I opine on a niche political gambling site...right or left, leave or remain, QT is a waste of space would appear to be a rare point of agreement.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,476
    edited February 23
    Even Gerald Ratner didn't manage to do this much damage to a company in less than 140 characters...

    Reality TV star Kylie Jenner wiped $1.3bn (£1bn) off the stock market value of Snapchat after tweeting that she no longer used its messaging app.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43163544

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,676
    edited February 23
    George Galloway praises the Rees-Mogg position on Brexit on 'This Week' and urges his friend Corbyn to follow suit and leave the fading EU to 'embrace the world' (or more particularly Russia and Iran)
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Why have QT got a "journalist" from a Corbyn loony left website which was recently struck off by Companies House for non-compliance?

    Why not?
    Well for starters their "journalists" were involved in spreading untruths about the government cover ups about Grenfell tower.

    https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20170617/281500751241946

    I thought the BBC were against giving those spreading Fake News a platform.
    They'll be banning Sun journalists next.
    Do they have the Sun on?...I never watch QT these days, as it seems most week they appear to have some z-list celeb on who knows f##k all about f##k all.
    Me neither. Who watches it? I lost interest in QT years ago, and I opine on a niche political gambling site...right or left, leave or remain, QT is a waste of space would appear to be a rare point of agreement.
    Stopped watching it years ago

    May I wish everyone a pleasant nights rest as I bid good night to all
  • Even Gerald Ratner didn't manage to do this much damage to a company in less than 140 characters...

    Reality TV star Kylie Jenner wiped $1.3bn (£1bn) off the stock market value of Snapchat after tweeting that she no longer used its messaging app.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43163544

    Amazon wiped 34 billion off Walmart yesterday
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 127

    Maidenhead LD gain

    Where were the National Bocialists

    Unfortunately, that is Minehead, and I think the Conservatives held the seat (Graham Chapman).
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,860
    HYUFD said:

    George Galloway praises the Rees-Mogg position on Brexit and urges his friend Corbyn to follow suit and leave the fading EU to 'embrace the world' (or more particularly Russia and Iran)

    He also said Brexit will lead to a socialist Pax Britannica as Corbyn leads the world...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,676

    HYUFD said:

    George Galloway praises the Rees-Mogg position on Brexit and urges his friend Corbyn to follow suit and leave the fading EU to 'embrace the world' (or more particularly Russia and Iran)

    He also said Brexit will lead to a socialist Pax Britannica as Corbyn leads the world...
    Perhaps followed by Bernie Sanders in his view
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 5,184
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,476
    edited February 23
    HYUFD said:
    The Lib Whos? Are they a small regional party?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,465

    HYUFD said:
    The Lib Whos? Are they a small regional party?
    They are now! Although, so small, nobody can say for sure which region......
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 4,524
    Per the Guardian:

    "The amendment to the trade bill is expected to win the backing of other Conservatives who inflicted defeated on the government last year on the EU withdrawal bill, including Dominic Grieve, Stephen Hammond, Jeremy Lefroy, Antoinette Sandbach and Jonathan Djanogly — all of whom had signed up to a similar amendment calling for the government to remain in “the” customs union."

    I think minimum 9 Con MPs required to defeat the Govt as Field and Hoey will back Govt for certain.

    If Govt loses, what happens?

    It's only an amendment - so would they brush it of and say they'll reverse it later?

    Or would it mean collapse of Govt?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/22/jeremy-corbyn-could-back-remaining-in-eu-customs-union
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 3,819
    MikeL said:

    Per the Guardian:

    "The amendment to the trade bill is expected to win the backing of other Conservatives who inflicted defeated on the government last year on the EU withdrawal bill, including Dominic Grieve, Stephen Hammond, Jeremy Lefroy, Antoinette Sandbach and Jonathan Djanogly — all of whom had signed up to a similar amendment calling for the government to remain in “the” customs union."

    I think minimum 9 Con MPs required to defeat the Govt as Field and Hoey will back Govt for certain.

    If Govt loses, what happens?

    It's only an amendment - so would they brush it of and say they'll reverse it later?

    Or would it mean collapse of Govt?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/22/jeremy-corbyn-could-back-remaining-in-eu-customs-union

    Where do the DUP stand on this?
    Presumably they would be okay with a customs union provided the rest of the UK does as well?

    If true - this article does explode the idea that there is no difference between a Corbyn and a May Brexit.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 3,819

    I am shocked.

    May U-turns on EU migrant rights.

    Any EU citizens who move to the UK during the transition will be allowed to stay permanently.

    JRM asked David Davies what was the point of this transition period and the response was so we can get a headstart on trade deals. I can’t see how that’s enough for leavers and certainly not the Leave voting public.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 5,184
    rkrkrk said:

    I am shocked.

    May U-turns on EU migrant rights.

    Any EU citizens who move to the UK during the transition will be allowed to stay permanently.

    JRM asked David Davies what was the point of this transition period and the response was so we can get a headstart on trade deals. I can’t see how that’s enough for leavers and certainly not the Leave voting public.
    And what would you regard as "enough for the Leave voting public" ?


  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 3,819
    Nigelb said:

    rkrkrk said:

    I am shocked.

    May U-turns on EU migrant rights.

    Any EU citizens who move to the UK during the transition will be allowed to stay permanently.

    JRM asked David Davies what was the point of this transition period and the response was so we can get a headstart on trade deals. I can’t see how that’s enough for leavers and certainly not the Leave voting public.
    And what would you regard as "enough for the Leave voting public" ?

    My guess would be the leave voting public would see the end of FOM as a sufficient step.

    They can swallow having to accept EU rules with no say for 2 years, they can even live with continued membership payments for 2 years...

    If the reason for the delay is just trade deals - I don't think:
    a) the public cares
    b) 2 years will be enough anyway
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,570
    FPT - can someone please explain to me what a Home Assistant actually does?

    Does it help with dusting, hoovering, tidying up or washing up? Or prepping vegetables?

    As far as I can tell it sits there on a table listening in to your conversations, ocassionally googles something or flips to a Netflix channel for you.

    I can really do that myself.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 3,819

    FPT - can someone please explain to me what a Home Assistant actually does?

    Does it help with dusting, hoovering, tidying up or washing up? Or prepping vegetables?

    As far as I can tell it sits there on a table listening in to your conversations, ocassionally googles something or flips to a Netflix channel for you.

    I can really do that myself.

    Based on a sample of 1 family member - it's used as a radio and a 'what is the weather going to be like today?' machine.

    But much preferred to having to use a computer and google.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,570
    Danny565 said:

    I am shocked.

    May U-turns on EU migrant rights.

    Any EU citizens who move to the UK during the transition will be allowed to stay permanently.


    That picture of the owl needs a caption competition.

    "Theresa May at 10pm on 8th June 2017"
    Good one.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,570
    edited February 23
    On topic, Farage and Banks are both narcissists who just want a bit of attention.

    Next.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    There is mandatory recording of FGM cases on this register for all cases recorded by all agencies. Are you suggesting that some official bodies are breaking the law by failing to report? If so, what is your evidence?

    I know that there is an "everybody know there are thousands" meme amongst right wing populists, but I do not regard that as evidence.

    137 is too many, but perhaps accounts for why trials are rare.

    Are The Guardian and the Royal College of Nursing "right wing populists"? They're the sourced credited with the thousands quote: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/21/england-fgm-cases-recorded-2015-2016
    Thousands a year PRESENTING AS ADULTS!

    If you have a reliable source that thousands of UK CHILDREN are having FGM, then I would be interested to read it.

    Adults are worth recording so social workers can protect the next generation.
    Those adults were children once. Plus the article mentions how it only comes to light during pregnancy (where its visible for obvious reasons) - how many "UK CHILDREN" are pregnant?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,570
    rkrkrk said:

    FPT - can someone please explain to me what a Home Assistant actually does?

    Does it help with dusting, hoovering, tidying up or washing up? Or prepping vegetables?

    As far as I can tell it sits there on a table listening in to your conversations, ocassionally googles something or flips to a Netflix channel for you.

    I can really do that myself.

    Based on a sample of 1 family member - it's used as a radio and a 'what is the weather going to be like today?' machine.

    But much preferred to having to use a computer and google.
    I'd rather have my family quietly looking up such things on their phones rather than barking at a 'pod' on the table, and disturbing everyone else.

    Colour me unconvinced.
  • rkrkrk said:

    MikeL said:

    Per the Guardian:

    "The amendment to the trade bill is expected to win the backing of other Conservatives who inflicted defeated on the government last year on the EU withdrawal bill, including Dominic Grieve, Stephen Hammond, Jeremy Lefroy, Antoinette Sandbach and Jonathan Djanogly — all of whom had signed up to a similar amendment calling for the government to remain in “the” customs union."

    I think minimum 9 Con MPs required to defeat the Govt as Field and Hoey will back Govt for certain.

    If Govt loses, what happens?

    It's only an amendment - so would they brush it of and say they'll reverse it later?

    Or would it mean collapse of Govt?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/22/jeremy-corbyn-could-back-remaining-in-eu-customs-union

    Where do the DUP stand on this?
    Presumably they would be okay with a customs union provided the rest of the UK does as well?

    If true - this article does explode the idea that there is no difference between a Corbyn and a May Brexit.

    As I said yesterday, Corbyn going with Brexit for PMQs this week was the most significant political development we’ve had. Something is shifting in Labour’s approach.

  • FPT - can someone please explain to me what a Home Assistant actually does?

    Does it help with dusting, hoovering, tidying up or washing up? Or prepping vegetables?

    As far as I can tell it sits there on a table listening in to your conversations, ocassionally googles something or flips to a Netflix channel for you.

    I can really do that myself.

    It works great as a reminder service.

    It’s a bit like hiring a violinist for romantic dinner date in a restaurant.

    Fun at the start but the novelty wears off after a few minutes.

    It you have an iPhone and an Apple Watch, Siri does most of what a home pod does already.

    Home Assistants are very annoying when you have young children.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,768

    rkrkrk said:

    FPT - can someone please explain to me what a Home Assistant actually does?

    Does it help with dusting, hoovering, tidying up or washing up? Or prepping vegetables?

    As far as I can tell it sits there on a table listening in to your conversations, ocassionally googles something or flips to a Netflix channel for you.

    I can really do that myself.

    Based on a sample of 1 family member - it's used as a radio and a 'what is the weather going to be like today?' machine.

    But much preferred to having to use a computer and google.
    I'd rather have my family quietly looking up such things on their phones rather than barking at a 'pod' on the table, and disturbing everyone else.

    Colour me unconvinced.
    Snap! (as a change from +1)
  • Mortimer said:

    FF43 said:

    Divergence doesn't make sense as a policy. You are either compliant with the other party's regulation for goods and services, or you are not. If compliant you can demand your goods and services are treated the same way as the other party's. If you are not compliant you can apply whatever regulation you want but you won't get national treatment on your goods and services.
    Divergence makes lots of sense when a huge proportion of your businesses produce for domestic consumption.

    Divergence makes lots of sense when you're one of the biggest economies in the world and need to be able to use governmental and regulatory levers to preserve and progress this

    And, of course, the ability to diverge makes lots of sense when the party you're discussing with are petrified of you diverging.

    The UK’s starting position seems to be that it wants the right to diverge in some circumstances at some point in time. The EU27 will decide whether to allow this. But as with citizens’ rights for those coming to the UK during the transition, the likelihood is that the government will be backing down at some stage. It does seem as if slowly but surely the loons are being sidelined.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,768

    Mortimer said:

    FF43 said:

    Divergence doesn't make sense as a policy. You are either compliant with the other party's regulation for goods and services, or you are not. If compliant you can demand your goods and services are treated the same way as the other party's. If you are not compliant you can apply whatever regulation you want but you won't get national treatment on your goods and services.
    Divergence makes lots of sense when a huge proportion of your businesses produce for domestic consumption.

    Divergence makes lots of sense when you're one of the biggest economies in the world and need to be able to use governmental and regulatory levers to preserve and progress this

    And, of course, the ability to diverge makes lots of sense when the party you're discussing with are petrified of you diverging.

    The UK’s starting position seems to be that it wants the right to diverge in some circumstances at some point in time. The EU27 will decide whether to allow this. But as with citizens’ rights for those coming to the UK during the transition, the likelihood is that the government will be backing down at some stage. It does seem as if slowly but surely the loons are being sidelined.

    You mean realism is prevailing?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,184
    I'm in no hurry to install Google Surveillance or Amazon Spy in my home.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,188

    FPT - can someone please explain to me what a Home Assistant actually does?

    Does it help with dusting, hoovering, tidying up or washing up? Or prepping vegetables?

    As far as I can tell it sits there on a table listening in to your conversations, ocassionally googles something or flips to a Netflix channel for you.

    I can really do that myself.

    There was an article a few months ago about someone who put Siri and Alexa in a room together.

    They started talking to each other and ignoring him...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 21,607

    I'm in no hurry to install Google Surveillance or Amazon Spy in my home.

    If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear.
  • I'm in no hurry to install Google Surveillance or Amazon Spy in my home.

    Luddite.

    They already hold that info on you anyway.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 1,788
    edited February 23

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    There is mandatory recording of FGM cases on this register for all cases recorded by all agencies. Are you suggesting that some official bodies are breaking the law by failing to report? If so, what is your evidence?

    I know that there is an "everybody know there are thousands" meme amongst right wing populists, but I do not regard that as evidence.

    137 is too many, but perhaps accounts for why trials are rare.

    Are The Guardian and the Royal College of Nursing "right wing populists"? They're the sourced credited with the thousands quote: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/21/england-fgm-cases-recorded-2015-2016
    Thousands a year PRESENTING AS ADULTS!

    If you have a reliable source that thousands of UK CHILDREN are having FGM, then I would be interested to read it.

    Adults are worth recording so social workers can protect the next generation.
    Those adults were children once. Plus the article mentions how it only comes to light during pregnancy (where its visible for obvious reasons) - how many "UK CHILDREN" are pregnant?
    The mean age at presentation last year was 31. The usual age of FGM is under 10 years old. That is why prosecutions are so rare, which is where this discussion started.

    The simple fact is that there were only 137 cases of suspected FGM in children in the most recent annual data, despite active mandatory multi agency reporting. Certainly there are likely to be unrecorded cases, but the numbers are pure speculation.

    Posters here often imply that prosecution is so rare because of collusion or "political correctness". In reality it is because of presentation decades later. The appropriate intervention at the point of presentation in a midwifery unit is educational and via social workers to protect the next generation.
  • Mortimer said:

    FF43 said:

    Divergence doesn't make sense as a policy. You are either compliant with the other party's regulation for goods and services, or you are not. If compliant you can demand your goods and services are treated the same way as the other party's. If you are not compliant you can apply whatever regulation you want but you won't get national treatment on your goods and services.
    Divergence makes lots of sense when a huge proportion of your businesses produce for domestic consumption.

    Divergence makes lots of sense when you're one of the biggest economies in the world and need to be able to use governmental and regulatory levers to preserve and progress this

    And, of course, the ability to diverge makes lots of sense when the party you're discussing with are petrified of you diverging.

    The UK’s starting position seems to be that it wants the right to diverge in some circumstances at some point in time. The EU27 will decide whether to allow this. But as with citizens’ rights for those coming to the UK during the transition, the likelihood is that the government will be backing down at some stage. It does seem as if slowly but surely the loons are being sidelined.

    You mean realism is prevailing?

    That’s what I’m hoping. The problem is, though, that every time there seems to be an outbreak of realism, the PM’s fear of the loons and terror of negative coverage in the right wing press leads her to backtrack. That said, with the clock ticking there is reducing scope for putting decisions off.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,184

    I'm in no hurry to install Google Surveillance or Amazon Spy in my home.

    Luddite.

    They already hold that info on you anyway.
    Anything that is activated by one word can be made to listen in to every sound.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,466

    I'm in no hurry to install Google Surveillance or Amazon Spy in my home.

    Luddite.

    They already hold that info on you anyway.
    Anything that is activated by one word can be made to listen in to every sound.
    It doesn't need to be activated by you. That's why you're right to be leary.
  • SeanT said:

    I could see a referendum on the deal though.

    Yes. The question is: what will be the question? Take the Deal or No Deal? Or Take the Deal or Remain?



    The following options

    1) Reject the deal and Remain

    2) Reject the deal and leave with no deal

    3) Accept the deal

    Conducted under AV
    Three options referendum is far too complicated for the great unwashed to compute.


    It is better that we muddle on through to cliff edge Brexit. If it works and we agree fantastic unilateral trade deals - great! If it is the fiasco we Remainers predict, a more enlightened future government goes cap in hand to the EU and asks if we can rejoin, albeit on worse terms than we left, maybe a decade after we leave.

    If we are ever to row back on June 2016 the Brexit experiment has to be seen to have well and truly failed. If by some remote chance it works great!

    As a Brexit related anecdotal aside I have spent the week in Lisburn, general consensus is Arlene has all but killed the Good Friday Agreement to the joy of Unionists. Nationalists tended to agree but without the enthusiasm. The blame for them was placed firmly at the feet of Mrs May and this is twofold, her inability to stand up to the DUP, and her inability to control the JRM/Boris faction. The Nationalists I spoke to detest Arlene but suggest she has run rings around Theresa. General understanding from both camps is Mrs May has wildly underestimated the ramifications of getting Northern Ireland wrong. Republicans and people who just want to get on with life consider Mrs May to be very politically naive.
    I keep thinking that Northern Ireland is probably the biggest impediment to BREXIT....and yet it seems to remain a parochial matter for the over-interested.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,859

    FPT - can someone please explain to me what a Home Assistant actually does?

    Does it help with dusting, hoovering, tidying up or washing up? Or prepping vegetables?

    As far as I can tell it sits there on a table listening in to your conversations, ocassionally googles something or flips to a Netflix channel for you.

    I can really do that myself.

    You can ask Alexa to put on some soothing cat purring noises.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 1,788

    FPT - can someone please explain to me what a Home Assistant actually does?

    Does it help with dusting, hoovering, tidying up or washing up? Or prepping vegetables?

    As far as I can tell it sits there on a table listening in to your conversations, ocassionally googles something or flips to a Netflix channel for you.

    I can really do that myself.

    It works great as a reminder service.

    It’s a bit like hiring a violinist for romantic dinner date in a restaurant.

    Fun at the start but the novelty wears off after a few minutes.

    It you have an iPhone and an Apple Watch, Siri does most of what a home pod does already.

    Home Assistants are very annoying when you have young children.
    They are very good for frail elderly people. I was visiting a ninety-something blind, and immobile friend a few weeks back. He loves it to change his channel, play music and look up share prices and other news.
This discussion has been closed.