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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New Survation CON voter poll finds that 50% say Brexit should

SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited March 19 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New Survation CON voter poll finds that 50% say Brexit should go ahead even if the deal threatened jobs and living standad

There’s a new 1,507 sample Survation poll, restricted just to GE2015/GE2017 Conservative voters, which seeks to get their views on Brexit and related issues. Fieldwork took place last week.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 64,284
    edited March 19
    Q13 cheers me up
  • Oh and primus inter pares
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 387
    Would be fascinated to know the age breakdown on this.
  • FPT
    Pulpstar said:

    May did say there'd have to be some give and take.

    Arlene hasn't piped up yet so far today, the DUP showing admirable restraint perhaps ?

    I think the DUP have gone into conclave on how they are going to sell making Corbyn PM to their voters/members.

    David Davis and Theresa May really have shafted the DUP today.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,860

    Q13 cheers me up

    Yes, and if it happened for real I suspect support would be even higher as the loyalists got behind the PM.
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,194

    Q13 cheers me up

    Brenda from Bristol wouldn't be happy though.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 3,254
    FTP

    DavidL said:

    I am confused, is the criticism of the government by the continuity Remainers that it has been too inflexible, or not inflexible enough?

    The government is trying to implement a policy against the national interest, and therefore cannot win whatever it does. I'm sorry if this pains you.
    It doesn't pain me, I think that they are making a sensible job of implementing a (mistaken) decision by the British people. It just amuses me to see the logical contortions of the government's critics on the Remain side, who seem to get more and more shrill when Mrs May and DD show some flexibility as they've suggested, rather than going the full Rees-Mogg.
    The frustration of those who told us with such certainty that there would be no deal, that we were heading for a diamond hard Brexit on WTO terms, that May could not deliver her party for anything else and that the loons were in charge of the asylum dooming us all to whatever calamity was getting their attention at that particular moment is palpable.

    Is it too early to hope that the Tories have rediscovered their pragmatism? I hope not.
    The odd thing is that you'd expect the criticism to be coming from the ultra-Brexiteers, but they mostly seem to be taking the sensible line on this. It's a funny old world, to be sure.
    The ultra-Brexiteers live on shifting sands. They've quietly accepted a situation they were lambasting as vassal statehood only a few weeks ago. Gutless wonders. In a sense I'm not bothered by their capitulation - nay, I even welcome it! - but an apology for the hassle they put the rest of us through for no good reason wouldn't go amiss.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,108
    Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,860

    FPT

    Pulpstar said:

    May did say there'd have to be some give and take.

    Arlene hasn't piped up yet so far today, the DUP showing admirable restraint perhaps ?

    I think the DUP have gone into conclave on how they are going to sell making Corbyn PM to their voters/members.

    David Davis and Theresa May really have shafted the DUP today.
    Ian Paisley is probably suggesting he can ask his new best mate Donald Trump to intervene.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 64,284
    edited March 19

    Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.

    3 Option referendum would be my preference.

    i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU

    ii) Accept the deal

    iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 1,973

    FTP

    DavidL said:

    I am confused, is the criticism of the government by the continuity Remainers that it has been too inflexible, or not inflexible enough?

    The government is trying to implement a policy against the national interest, and therefore cannot win whatever it does. I'm sorry if this pains you.
    It doesn't pain me, I think that they are making a sensible job of implementing a (mistaken) decision by the British people. It just amuses me to see the logical contortions of the government's critics on the Remain side, who seem to get more and more shrill when Mrs May and DD show some flexibility as they've suggested, rather than going the full Rees-Mogg.
    The frustration of those who told us with such certainty that there would be no deal, that we were heading for a diamond hard Brexit on WTO terms, that May could not deliver her party for anything else and that the loons were in charge of the asylum dooming us all to whatever calamity was getting their attention at that particular moment is palpable.

    Is it too early to hope that the Tories have rediscovered their pragmatism? I hope not.
    The odd thing is that you'd expect the criticism to be coming from the ultra-Brexiteers, but they mostly seem to be taking the sensible line on this. It's a funny old world, to be sure.
    The ultra-Brexiteers live on shifting sands. They've quietly accepted a situation they were lambasting as vassal statehood only a few weeks ago. Gutless wonders. In a sense I'm not bothered by their capitulation - nay, I even welcome it! - but an apology for the hassle they put the rest of us through for no good reason wouldn't go amiss.
    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 6,957
    edited March 19

    FTP

    DavidL said:

    I am confused, is the criticism of the government by the continuity Remainers that it has been too inflexible, or not inflexible enough?

    The government is trying to implement a policy against the national interest, and therefore cannot win whatever it does. I'm sorry if this pains you.
    It doesn't pain me, I think that they are making a sensible job of implementing a (mistaken) decision by the British people. It just amuses me to see the logical contortions of the government's critics on the Remain side, who seem to get more and more shrill when Mrs May and DD show some flexibility as they've suggested, rather than going the full Rees-Mogg.
    The frustration of those who told us with such certainty that there would be no deal, that we were heading for a diamond hard Brexit on WTO terms, that May could not deliver her party for anything else and that the loons were in charge of the asylum dooming us all to whatever calamity was getting their attention at that particular moment is palpable.

    Is it too early to hope that the Tories have rediscovered their pragmatism? I hope not.
    The odd thing is that you'd expect the criticism to be coming from the ultra-Brexiteers, but they mostly seem to be taking the sensible line on this. It's a funny old world, to be sure.
    The ultra-Brexiteers live on shifting sands. They've quietly accepted a situation they were lambasting as vassal statehood only a few weeks ago. Gutless wonders. In a sense I'm not bothered by their capitulation - nay, I even welcome it! - but an apology for the hassle they put the rest of us through for no good reason wouldn't go amiss.
    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
    No ,the biggest fraud was joining a common market.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 43,050

    Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.

    3 Option referendum would be my preference.

    i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU

    ii) Accept the deal

    iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms
    Arrow's theorem tells us this question may be unresolvable if three options are given.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 43,050
    Feeling OK today, JacobRees@GardenWalker ?
  • glwglw Posts: 4,207

    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.

    You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.

    3 Option referendum would be my preference.

    i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU

    ii) Accept the deal

    iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms
    Arrow's theorem tells us this question may be unresolvable if three options are given.
    Well if you're arguing that the three option referendum should be conducted under AV then I won't object.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 4,273

    Pulpstar said:

    Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.

    3 Option referendum would be my preference.

    i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU

    ii) Accept the deal

    iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms
    Arrow's theorem tells us this question may be unresolvable if three options are given.
    Well if you're arguing that the three option referendum should be conducted under AV then I won't object.
    How does AV work again? We need more threads on voting systems.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,463
    Why were you worrying about the WIndies?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 1,973
    edited March 19
    glw said:

    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.

    You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
    Yes.

    Because they won the referendum on a platform of lies, have made a series of promises they had no intention of keeping, have slandered their opponents left, right and centre, and now pretend they are models of sobriety.

    Whereas all they have done is bow to the inevitable.

    PS it’s not a soft Brexit. It’s still a hard Brexit (ex-single market, customs union).
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,463
    glw said:

    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.

    You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
    He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 678
    More evidence that no price is too high for many brexiteers – Brexit is a cult whereby negative economic and societal consequences are considered trifling collateral damage.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,859
    Anorak said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.

    3 Option referendum would be my preference.

    i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU

    ii) Accept the deal

    iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms
    Arrow's theorem tells us this question may be unresolvable if three options are given.
    Well if you're arguing that the three option referendum should be conducted under AV then I won't object.
    How does AV work again? We need more threads on voting systems.
    I can’t even remember what AV stands for anymore....
  • Anorak said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.

    3 Option referendum would be my preference.

    i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU

    ii) Accept the deal

    iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms
    Arrow's theorem tells us this question may be unresolvable if three options are given.
    Well if you're arguing that the three option referendum should be conducted under AV then I won't object.
    How does AV work again? We need more threads on voting systems.
    In a little over two months I begin a near three week stint as editor of PB I’ll do regular threads on AV for you.

    If you’re lucky I’ll do daily threads on AV.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 4,273
    RobD said:

    Anorak said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.

    3 Option referendum would be my preference.

    i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU

    ii) Accept the deal

    iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms
    Arrow's theorem tells us this question may be unresolvable if three options are given.
    Well if you're arguing that the three option referendum should be conducted under AV then I won't object.
    How does AV work again? We need more threads on voting systems.
    I can’t even remember what AV stands for anymore....
    Arsey voters, I think.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 127

    Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.

    3 Option referendum would be my preference.

    i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU

    ii) Accept the deal

    iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms
    Conducted under AV, or two stage exhaustive ballot?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 14,430
    glw said:

    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.

    You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
    Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.

    Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 4,273
    edited March 19
    DavidL said:

    glw said:

    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.

    You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
    He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.
    Makes you wonder why we're even bothering, doesn't it.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 6,957
    Anazina said:

    More evidence that no price is too high for many brexiteers – Brexit is a cult whereby negative economic and societal consequences are considered trifling collateral damage.

    Before we joined the common market,what was our cult then ?
  • DavidL said:

    Why were you worrying about the WIndies?
    They were trying to hit every ball for six and getting out.

    They lost 4 for 20 and their captain was out second ball for six.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 678

    FTP

    DavidL said:

    I am confused, is the criticism of the government by the continuity Remainers that it has been too inflexible, or not inflexible enough?

    The government is trying to implement a policy against the national interest, and therefore cannot win whatever it does. I'm sorry if this pains you.
    It doesn't pain me, I think that they are making a sensible job of implementing a (mistaken) decision by the British people. It just amuses me to see the logical contortions of the government's critics on the Remain side, who seem to get more and more shrill when Mrs May and DD show some flexibility as they've suggested, rather than going the full Rees-Mogg.
    The frustration of those who told us with such certainty that there would be no deal, that we were heading for a diamond hard Brexit on WTO terms, that May could not deliver her party for anything else and that the loons were in charge of the asylum dooming us all to whatever calamity was getting their attention at that particular moment is palpable.

    Is it too early to hope that the Tories have rediscovered their pragmatism? I hope not.
    The odd thing is that you'd expect the criticism to be coming from the ultra-Brexiteers, but they mostly seem to be taking the sensible line on this. It's a funny old world, to be sure.
    The ultra-Brexiteers live on shifting sands. They've quietly accepted a situation they were lambasting as vassal statehood only a few weeks ago. Gutless wonders. In a sense I'm not bothered by their capitulation - nay, I even welcome it! - but an apology for the hassle they put the rest of us through for no good reason wouldn't go amiss.
    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.
    No ,the biggest fraud was joining a common market.
    Er, why?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 1,973
    DavidL said:

    glw said:

    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.

    You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
    He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.
    You’ll have to dig out that inevitable calamity post, I’m afraid. You’ve addled yourself again.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,570
    DavidL said:

    glw said:

    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.

    You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
    He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.
    There is some pretty desperate spinning going on today.

    All that matters is to note that both the UK and EU have made the necessary compromises to agree a transition deal, now, so they can move onto the substance of trade discussions.

    Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 14,430
    Anorak said:

    DavidL said:

    glw said:

    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.

    You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
    He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.
    Makes you wonder why we're even bothering, doesn't it.
    Nope.
  • glwglw Posts: 4,207

    Because they won the referendum on a platform of lies, have made a series of promises they had no intention of keeping, have slandered their opponents left, right and centre, and now pretend they are models of sobriety.

    The behaviour of many Remainers has been no better. Ever since the vote we've had endless "the thick old racists don't know what's good for them" from people who should know better.

    Now when the government shows some pragmatism, because they aren't going to be able to please everyone, we get moaning about that, and howls of betrayal on behalf of people that the die-hard Remainers routinely abuse.

    Moderates, and most of the public are within that group, should be reasonably happy with today's events.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 43,050

    Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.

    3 Option referendum would be my preference.

    i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU

    ii) Accept the deal

    iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms
    Conducted under AV, or two stage exhaustive ballot?
    I'd have thought ranked-pairs would be the most suitable voting system for this.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 1,973

    glw said:

    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.

    You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
    Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.

    Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.
    You sound like a cult leader.

    Remainers don’t need your praise, support and understanding; they need you to do “a Williamson”.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,570
    On topic, question 13 simply shows the loyalty of Conservative voters in supporting the official position of the Conservative Government.

    It doesn't tell us very much about whether Conservative voters support a second referendum in the abstract, to which the first question listed is probably more instructive.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 21,607
    FPT:
    RobD said:

    Anorak said:
    Easy to capture awkward looking stills from a video. The two seem to get on quite well, from what I have seen.
    I don't think Barnier and Davis will ever be bosom buddies, but their relationship is professional. Below the top level, when you get to the guys and gals actually negotiating much of the detail, the relationships are actually pretty good.

    There is a world of difference between the tweets from politicians, and the actual detail of the negotiation. Yes there are sticking points, but there is a genuine belief on both sides that no deal is not a viable option.

    Could we have done a better job in these negotiations? Yes. I think we started with the tone all wrong and lost six months of progress because of that. However, things seem to be moving in very much the right direction now.

    Things I would have done differently: I'd have had a more explicit staggered transition period, with the customs union part ending last (simply because two years is not a lot of time to replicate existing deals, and makes us the desperate party in negotiations). But other than that, I think things have gone OK.

    Now, of course, the focus is going to move to Dr Fox.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 12,493

    glw said:

    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.

    You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
    Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.

    Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.
    What about those who appreciate that all of the shenanigans amounts to a hill of beans. Substantially nothing will change, we will still be de facto members until further notice, and be under the auspices of the EU. Yes, trade deals with Tonga notwithstanding. It will be BINO, which is great, but our overwhelming reaction is: all that for what? It is the sheer pointlessness of it that make true patriots despair.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 20,730

    glw said:

    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.

    You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
    Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.

    Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.
    It's similar to the way some posters were simultaneously complaining that we were provoking Russia, at the same time as being insufficiently bellicose.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 873

    DavidL said:

    glw said:

    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.

    You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
    He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.
    There is some pretty desperate spinning going on today.

    All that matters is to note that both the UK and EU have made the necessary compromises to agree a transition deal, now, so they can move onto the substance of trade discussions.

    Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.
    Does the draft deal roll over all our existing trade deals as part of the EU, through the transition period? And we'd then have to negotiate them continuing or not from 2021 onwards? If so that seems a pretty good summary.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,860

    Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.

    You need to digest the Northern Ireland deal (and think about the practical realities of EU-GB trade generally). The only UK-EU trade deal that would be viable in 2020 consists of the single market and customs union plus other political elements. It's Norway plus plus plus, or Remain.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,570

    glw said:

    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.

    You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
    Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.

    Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.
    You sound like a cult leader.

    And you don't? Why would any Leave voter listen to you when you argue your case with such disdain for theirs?
  • glwglw Posts: 4,207

    Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.

    Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.

    I can't get my head round the "you haven't done the terrible thing we've been warning about" arguments. Is being proved "right" that important to them?

    Anyway another step was taken towards leaving the EU, and that's what actually matters.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,860
    edited March 19
    rcs1000 said:

    Things I would have done differently: I'd have had a more explicit staggered transition period, with the customs union part ending last (simply because two years is not a lot of time to replicate existing deals, and makes us the desperate party in negotiations). But other than that, I think things have gone OK.

    Now, of course, the focus is going to move to Dr Fox.

    When Fox's interlocutors ask him which customs territory he is negotiating for, what should he answer?

    By the way your position has changed 180 degrees from before the referendum when you backed the idea of blackmailing our way into the EEA by rejoining EFTA, something that, even if it could be done, would leave us outside the customs union overnight.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,465

    Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.

    3 Option referendum would be my preference.

    i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU

    ii) Accept the deal

    iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms
    We'll give you that on one condition: the electorate is restricted to those who voted to Leave....
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 6,957
    glw said:

    Because they won the referendum on a platform of lies, have made a series of promises they had no intention of keeping, have slandered their opponents left, right and centre, and now pretend they are models of sobriety.

    The behaviour of many Remainers has been no better. Ever since the vote we've had endless "the thick old racists don't know what's good for them" from people who should know better.

    Now when the government shows some pragmatism, because they aren't going to be able to please everyone, we get moaning about that, and howls of betrayal on behalf of people that the die-hard Remainers routinely abuse.

    Moderates, and most of the public are within that group, should be reasonably happy with today's events.
    Add plebs,gutless wonders and brexitloons to the insults ,that's just today. ;-)

    I'm not happy with the immigration result from today and something must be put in place that it won't be a free for all in the transition period.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,179
    edited March 19
    It seems all those who want to remain have attempted to make mischief with the transistion deal because, once in a legal agreement, enshrines Brexit in UK - EU law and ends their hopes of stopping it
  • glwglw Posts: 4,207

    Add plebs,gutless wonders and brexitloons to the insults ,that's just today. ;-)

    I'm not happy with the immigration result from today and something must be put in place that it won't be a free for all in the transition period.

    Personally I don't care what the transition period amounts to providing it is not too long. So I'm happy enough with what's been drafted. The main thing is that we can now move on to the stuff that really matters.
  • So no wonder Jez isn’t prepared to blame Russia, Mrs May isn’t giving him all the information.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,465
    glw said:

    Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.

    Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.

    I can't get my head round the "you haven't done the terrible thing we've been warning about" arguments. Is being proved "right" that important to them?

    Anyway another step was taken towards leaving the EU, and that's what actually matters.
    +1
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 678
    edited March 19

    Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.

    You need to digest the Northern Ireland deal (and think about the practical realities of EU-GB trade generally). The only UK-EU trade deal that would be viable in 2020 consists of the single market and customs union plus other political elements. It's Norway plus plus plus, or Remain.
    Indeed there is now plenty of time in the system to work towards such a deal. A very good day for eurosanity.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,465

    So no wonder Jez isn’t prepared to blame Russia, Mrs May isn’t giving him all the information.
    You are Seamus Milne and I claim my five roubles.....
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,136

    Anorak said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Q13 is completely meaningless unless you know what the alternative on offer would be.

    3 Option referendum would be my preference.

    i) Reject the deal and Remain in the EU

    ii) Accept the deal

    iii) Reject the deal and Leave the EU on WTO terms
    Arrow's theorem tells us this question may be unresolvable if three options are given.
    Well if you're arguing that the three option referendum should be conducted under AV then I won't object.
    How does AV work again? We need more threads on voting systems.
    In a little over two months I begin a near three week stint as editor of PB I’ll do regular threads on AV for you.

    If you’re lucky I’ll do daily threads on AV.
    You aren't telling us that OGH is away on holiday, surely? That's a guarantee of interesting times.

    Good afternoon, everyone.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,463

    DavidL said:

    Why were you worrying about the WIndies?
    They were trying to hit every ball for six and getting out.

    They lost 4 for 20 and their captain was out second ball for six.
    Possibly an unsuccessful attempt to improve their NRR but they brought it home safely enough.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 1,973

    glw said:

    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.

    You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
    Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.

    Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.
    You sound like a cult leader.

    And you don't? Why would any Leave voter listen to you when you argue your case with such disdain for theirs?
    They don’t have a case, though.
    That’s the whole problem with Leaving.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,418
    Note. I've added another finding from the poll to the heafer
  • Awb683Awb683 Posts: 21
    The most important thing about Brexit is that it happens ASAP.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,465
    Crazy snowy still out in the Devon lanes today. It's like the Cresta Run going to the shops - to find that they are nearly all closed, because the lanes are, er, like the Cresta Run.....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,463

    So no wonder Jez isn’t prepared to blame Russia, Mrs May isn’t giving him all the information.
    Would you? Would you trust him with sensitive information about our security? That really is the problem.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,860

    Note. I've added another finding from the poll to the header

    The wording of the question is so convoluted it might as well say, "If your MP could find a way for us to save face while agreeing to stay in the EU, would you support such an arrangement?"
  • So no wonder Jez isn’t prepared to blame Russia, Mrs May isn’t giving him all the information.
    You are Seamus Milne and I claim my five roubles.....
    Absolutely not, Seumas Milne read PPE, I read a real degree.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 5,792
    He'll have received a briefing direct from Putin. He'll know more than May.
  • DavidL said:

    So no wonder Jez isn’t prepared to blame Russia, Mrs May isn’t giving him all the information.
    Would you? Would you trust him with sensitive information about our security? That really is the problem.
    My biggest issue is that he's thick.

    He's the sort of idiot that would blurt out sensitive information in an interview or over the despatch box not realising what he was doing.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 678
    Awb683 said:

    The most important thing about Brexit is that it happens ASAP.


    Three years away and counting.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,859
    Anazina said:

    Awb683 said:

    The most important thing about Brexit is that it happens ASAP.


    Three years away and counting.
    Two years and nine months... how time flies!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,570
    The eagle-eyed (not many on here) will have noticed that the Northern Ireland protocol refers to *a* common regulatory area for goods for Northern Ireland, and protecting north-south co-operation, not membership of *the* Single Market and *the* Customs Union.

    Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:

    Goods in Annex 2.1
    Customs legislation in annex 2.2
    VAT in annex 2.3
    Excise in annex 2.4
    Sanitary/phytosanitary on annex 2.5
    Agriculture/fisheries on annex 2.6
    Electricity on annex 2.7
    Environment on annex 2.8
    State aid in annex 2.9

    As far as I can tell, these annexes are not populated yet. That's almost certainly because it's impossible to finalise the Northern Irish border question - even for its transition - until the trade deal itself is agreed.

    However, it's a useful pointer to where negotiations may be heading: the UK will want a shorter list in those annexes than in the EU, but it looks broadly in line with Theresa's Mansion House speech to me.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 678

    glw said:

    Because they won the referendum on a platform of lies, have made a series of promises they had no intention of keeping, have slandered their opponents left, right and centre, and now pretend they are models of sobriety.

    The behaviour of many Remainers has been no better. Ever since the vote we've had endless "the thick old racists don't know what's good for them" from people who should know better.

    Now when the government shows some pragmatism, because they aren't going to be able to please everyone, we get moaning about that, and howls of betrayal on behalf of people that the die-hard Remainers routinely abuse.

    Moderates, and most of the public are within that group, should be reasonably happy with today's events.
    Add plebs,gutless wonders and brexitloons to the insults ,that's just today. ;-)

    I'm not happy with the immigration result from today and something must be put in place that it won't be a free for all in the transition period.
    Not going to happen. The wording is clear that EU nationals arriving in the transitionary period will command the same rights as those who arrive before. A rather business friendly settlement – about 50% of our employees are EU nationals and I would rather not reduce their recruitment rate.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,334
    Off-topic:

    I just went to pick up the little 'un from preschool, and received a letter to say that theirs was one of the schools that got a bomb threat this morning:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43457548

    I wonder what this little hoax cost the authorities?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,860

    Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:

    This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,179
    Anazina said:

    glw said:

    Because they won the referendum on a platform of lies, have made a series of promises they had no intention of keeping, have slandered their opponents left, right and centre, and now pretend they are models of sobriety.

    The behaviour of many Remainers has been no better. Ever since the vote we've had endless "the thick old racists don't know what's good for them" from people who should know better.

    Now when the government shows some pragmatism, because they aren't going to be able to please everyone, we get moaning about that, and howls of betrayal on behalf of people that the die-hard Remainers routinely abuse.

    Moderates, and most of the public are within that group, should be reasonably happy with today's events.
    Add plebs,gutless wonders and brexitloons to the insults ,that's just today. ;-)

    I'm not happy with the immigration result from today and something must be put in place that it won't be a free for all in the transition period.
    Not going to happen. The wording is clear that EU nationals arriving in the transitionary period will command the same rights as those who arrive before. A rather business friendly settlement – about 50% of our employees are EU nationals and I would rather not reduce their recruitment rate.
    I have no problem with the transistion agreement
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 678
    Scott_P said:
    Straw Jr is right – but also wrong (in tone). This is a fair compromise – the best criticism that can be laid at the door of the government is that it should have been secured months ago without all the hot air and business uncertainty. It is now within the realms of possibility that the country will grow so used to this transition we will never truly leave.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 27,693

    Note. I've added another finding from the poll to the header

    The wording of the question is so convoluted it might as well say, "If your MP could find a way for us to save face while agreeing to stay in the EU, would you support such an arrangement?"
    Agree

    It was commissioned by a body called Citizens for Britain which is a grass roots organisation of stop Brexit Tories.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 678

    Anazina said:

    glw said:

    Because they won the referendum on a platform of lies, have made a series of promises they had no intention of keeping, have slandered their opponents left, right and centre, and now pretend they are models of sobriety.

    The behaviour of many Remainers has been no better. Ever since the vote we've had endless "the thick old racists don't know what's good for them" from people who should know better.

    Now when the government shows some pragmatism, because they aren't going to be able to please everyone, we get moaning about that, and howls of betrayal on behalf of people that the die-hard Remainers routinely abuse.

    Moderates, and most of the public are within that group, should be reasonably happy with today's events.
    Add plebs,gutless wonders and brexitloons to the insults ,that's just today. ;-)

    I'm not happy with the immigration result from today and something must be put in place that it won't be a free for all in the transition period.
    Not going to happen. The wording is clear that EU nationals arriving in the transitionary period will command the same rights as those who arrive before. A rather business friendly settlement – about 50% of our employees are EU nationals and I would rather not reduce their recruitment rate.
    I have no problem with the transistion agreement
    Good. Not that I ever suggested you did!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,179
    Anazina said:

    Scott_P said:
    Straw Jr is right – but also wrong (in tone). This is a fair compromise – the best criticism that can be laid at the door of the government is that it should have been secured months ago without all the hot air and business uncertainty. It is now within the realms of possibility that the country will grow so used to this transition we will never truly leave.
    The only problem with your view is that when transistion is formally agreed the date of 31st December 2020 will be UK-EU law
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,859

    Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:

    This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
    So let’s get on and agree something then.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 678

    Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:

    This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
    It also means that any solution that would lead to a hard(er) border on the Foyle prevents the whole UK leaving the single market i.e. the sanctity of a borderless Ireland is preeminent over leaving the EU.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,570

    glw said:

    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.

    You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
    Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.

    Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.
    You sound like a cult leader.

    And you don't? Why would any Leave voter listen to you when you argue your case with such disdain for theirs?
    They don’t have a case, though.
    That’s the whole problem with Leaving.
    You make my point for me.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 678

    Anazina said:

    Scott_P said:
    Straw Jr is right – but also wrong (in tone). This is a fair compromise – the best criticism that can be laid at the door of the government is that it should have been secured months ago without all the hot air and business uncertainty. It is now within the realms of possibility that the country will grow so used to this transition we will never truly leave.
    The only problem with your view is that when transistion is formally agreed the date of 31st December 2020 will be UK-EU law
    Please explain/elaborate. I genuinely didn't understand your post there.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 3,254
    Scott_P said:
    Moan, moan, moan, moan, moan... Why do IDS and the Leavers have to be such moaning minnies on this glorious day? Just rejoice at the news and congratulate our Theresa and DD!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,570

    Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.

    You need to digest the Northern Ireland deal (and think about the practical realities of EU-GB trade generally). The only UK-EU trade deal that would be viable in 2020 consists of the single market and customs union plus other political elements. It's Norway plus plus plus, or Remain.
    I've digested more than you have.

    And I discount anything you say on the subject, because you're a fanatic that has a bizarre obsession with what I say on the subject.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 678
    RobD said:

    Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:

    This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
    So let’s get on and agree something then.

    Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 5,792

    So no wonder Jez isn’t prepared to blame Russia, Mrs May isn’t giving him all the information.
    You are Seamus Milne and I claim my five roubles.....
    Absolutely not, Seumas Milne read PPE, I read a real degree.
    You only read? For PPE you have to do some writing too. And draw graphs in the Economics exams.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,570
    tpfkar said:

    DavidL said:

    glw said:

    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.

    You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
    He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.
    There is some pretty desperate spinning going on today.

    All that matters is to note that both the UK and EU have made the necessary compromises to agree a transition deal, now, so they can move onto the substance of trade discussions.

    Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.
    Does the draft deal roll over all our existing trade deals as part of the EU, through the transition period? And we'd then have to negotiate them continuing or not from 2021 onwards? If so that seems a pretty good summary.
    Yes, I believe so.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,859
    Anazina said:

    RobD said:

    Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:

    This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
    So let’s get on and agree something then.

    Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
    That’s not going to happen.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 12,493
    edited March 19
    Anazina said:

    Scott_P said:
    Straw Jr is right – but also wrong (in tone). This is a fair compromise – the best criticism that can be laid at the door of the government is that it should have been secured months ago without all the hot air and business uncertainty. It is now within the realms of possibility that the country will grow so used to this transition we will never truly leave.
    The attack lines for Lab at the next GE are writing themselves. However accurate those charges are, they will be used time and again to criticise the Cons.
  • wallyglen and the Meekoid,
    You're not singing any more.
    You're not singing any more!

    Who are yah, who are yah?
    Are you Kiwis in disguise?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 1,973

    glw said:

    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.

    You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
    Remaniacs like Gardenwalker would have complained no matter what the news today and no matter what the deal eventually obtained. They are completely opposed to the fundamental principle of Brexit and will look for any and all excuses to moan and complain.

    Those many Remain voters who have resigned themselves to Brexit and now want to see it work out for the best for the sake of the country deserve great praise, support and understanding. Those who continue to rail against it and try to undermine it deserve nothing but disdain and ridicule.
    You sound like a cult leader.

    And you don't? Why would any Leave voter listen to you when you argue your case with such disdain for theirs?
    They don’t have a case, though.
    That’s the whole problem with Leaving.
    You make my point for me.
    But you don’t have one. You are pointless.
    Bereft of reason, Brexiters now only applaud that the end of the tunnel is nearing - one day at a time.

    Except for blue passports of course.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 35,339

    Moan, moan, moan, moan, moan... Why do IDS and the Leavers have to be such moaning minnies

    That appears to be their default state of being...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,860

    tpfkar said:

    DavidL said:

    glw said:

    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.

    You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
    He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.
    There is some pretty desperate spinning going on today.

    All that matters is to note that both the UK and EU have made the necessary compromises to agree a transition deal, now, so they can move onto the substance of trade discussions.

    Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.
    Does the draft deal roll over all our existing trade deals as part of the EU, through the transition period? And we'd then have to negotiate them continuing or not from 2021 onwards? If so that seems a pretty good summary.
    Yes, I believe so.
    The EU will ask third countries to pretend we're still in the EU.
    image
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 678
    RobD said:

    Anazina said:

    RobD said:

    Free movement is, of course, taken care of via the Common Travel Area, but the areas that fall in scope of this common regulatory area (CRA?) for the purposes of the transition period are listed as follows, all to be governed by a Special Committee between UK/EIRE and the EU:

    This is not just for the purposes of the transition period. It's permanent until agreed otherwise, which means in practice that nothing can be agreed for Northern Ireland that is less than the backstop solution
    So let’s get on and agree something then.

    Indeed. Permanent membership of the single market will do the trick.
    That’s not going to happen.
    Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.

    Many a europhobe red line breached already. Three more years to make the case for the single market.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 1,973
    edited March 19

    tpfkar said:

    DavidL said:

    glw said:

    Quite. This is what is annoying Remainers.
    Not so much the deal, because Brexit is getting softer by the day - although vassalage is a bitter pill - but the ongoing collapse of the Brexit argument wholesale, with nary an apology for the costume changes.

    It’s the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the U.K. public.

    You are complaining that Brexiteers are now supporting a transition, soft Brexit, and a slow divergence from the EU, instead of crashing out?
    He is complaining because he has been telling us for weeks that this was an inevitable calamity and now it looks like a very damp squib that the vast majority will not even notice.
    There is some pretty desperate spinning going on today.

    All that matters is to note that both the UK and EU have made the necessary compromises to agree a transition deal, now, so they can move onto the substance of trade discussions.

    Nothing more, nothing less. We will still be leaving on 29th March 2019. And a full UK-EU trade deal will come into effect on 31st December 2020.
    Does the draft deal roll over all our existing trade deals as part of the EU, through the transition period? And we'd then have to negotiate them continuing or not from 2021 onwards? If so that seems a pretty good summary.
    Yes, I believe so.
    The other countries have to agree to this, but in practice hopefully no one could be arsed to relitigate for the sake of two years trade advantage.
This discussion has been closed.