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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » So far the questions over the Leave campaign funding haven’t i

SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited March 26 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » So far the questions over the Leave campaign funding haven’t impacted on the betting

The big Brexit development over the weekend have been the revelations about the Leave campaign funding and whether the law was followed. Those pushing this forward are clearly hoping that this could impede the Brexit process and de-legitimise the Referendum outcome.

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • TomsToms Posts: 1,498
    edited March 26
    Well, the overspending wouldn't be Cricket, would it?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,645
    'Despite Brexit' London remains the world's financial centre, just ahead of New York a new study shows. Hong Kong is third, Singapore 4th and Tokyo 5th.

    Frankfurt meanwhile is down 9 places to 20th.

    http://www.cityam.com/282918/london-remains-top-world-global-financial-services-says
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 5,429
    Toms said:

    Well, the overspending wouldn't be Cricket, would it?

    .. in Australia.. it would be ;)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,695
    HYUFD said:

    'Despite Brexit' London remains the world's financial centre, just ahead of New York a new study shows. Hong Kong is third, Singapore 4th and Tokyo 5th.

    Frankfurt meanwhile is down 9 places to 20th.

    http://www.cityam.com/282918/london-remains-top-world-global-financial-services-says

    Let's see what the position is once Britain has actually left and we have some idea of the basis on which the financial sector can trade with the EU.

  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,542
    There are questions over how both sides managed their finances throughout the process.

    When it is a plague on both your houses situation then people are going to quite rightly react with a resounding 'meh'

  • Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Despite Brexit' London remains the world's financial centre, just ahead of New York a new study shows. Hong Kong is third, Singapore 4th and Tokyo 5th.

    Frankfurt meanwhile is down 9 places to 20th.

    http://www.cityam.com/282918/london-remains-top-world-global-financial-services-says

    Let's see what the position is once Britain has actually left and we have some idea of the basis on which the financial sector can trade with the EU.

    Bah, what do you know about the Financial Services & Banking Sector :lol:
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,103
    Re thread - why should it - it is a non story
  • TomsToms Posts: 1,498
    edited March 26

    Re thread - why should it - it is a non story

    I believe there might be a legal issue. non?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,383
    A train believed to be carrying a senior North Korean official has arrived in Beijing, Japanese media report.

    Bloomberg news said the visitor was North Korea's leader Kim Jong-un himself, citing three unnamed sources

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-43547044
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,513
    I continue to back Leaving on time at this price, which is still generous.

    I presume some punters are still concerned at the passage of the EU withdrawal bill in the Lords, which will all kick off in the next few weeks, and whether the Commons will vote through the Withdrawal deal post October.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,645
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Despite Brexit' London remains the world's financial centre, just ahead of New York a new study shows. Hong Kong is third, Singapore 4th and Tokyo 5th.

    Frankfurt meanwhile is down 9 places to 20th.

    http://www.cityam.com/282918/london-remains-top-world-global-financial-services-says

    Let's see what the position is once Britain has actually left and we have some idea of the basis on which the financial sector can trade with the EU.

    At most London will fall to second behind New York and even that might be avoided if the UK gets a 'Canada+' FTA with the EU.

    London will still be the financial centre of Europe whatever happens with Brexit.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,103
    Toms said:

    Re thread - why should it - it is a non story

    I believe there might be a legal issue. non?
    All bubble stuff - voters are saying just get on with it
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 581

    Toms said:

    Re thread - why should it - it is a non story

    I believe there might be a legal issue. non?
    All bubble stuff - voters are saying just get on with it
    Does not seem like the bubble is very interested in the story today.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,138
    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,103

    Toms said:

    Re thread - why should it - it is a non story

    I believe there might be a legal issue. non?
    All bubble stuff - voters are saying just get on with it
    Does not seem like the bubble is very interested in the story today.
    Bigger news stories today
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,268
    FPT
    Charles said:


    I once convinced someone that the etymology of bungalow was this.

    Some builders were building a two storey house, but half way through the client ran out of money, and only had one storey built, so hey told the builders to 'bung a low' roof on the building and he'd live in a one storey house.

    Thus the word 'bungalow' was born.

    I once convinced someone that pumpernickel was a corruption of “pain pour Nickel” and recorded Napoleons reaction to a filthy peasant bread as he fed it to his horse Nickel.
    The real meaning of devil's fart bread is much better!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,436
    Toms said:

    Well, the overspending wouldn't be Cricket, would it?

    I fear that phrase is on the endangered list. Which is a shame, however much amusement the convicts are giving at the moment.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,103

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    Alastair - nobody will change your views on Brexit no matter what happens
  • TomsToms Posts: 1,498
    DavidL said:

    Toms said:

    Well, the overspending wouldn't be Cricket, would it?

    I fear that phrase is on the endangered list. Which is a shame, however much amusement the convicts are giving at the moment.
    Agreed. And my sad irony was intended.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,268

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    Some remainiacs are worrying about how leavers are going to make it up with them (special cuddles?), everyone else is getting on with shit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,645

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    52% of the voters and 401 out of 632 constituencies voted Leave.

    Leavers don't need to persuade anyone, just hold what they got, it is Remainers who need to do the persuading if they are ever going to get a majority to stay in the single market and customs union, let alone to reverse Brexit and stay in the EU
  • glwglw Posts: 4,197
    edited March 26
    FPT:
    marke09 said:

    Leanne Wood leader of Plaid Cymru is a disgrace - she wont back Russian actions as she doesn't believe a word the Tories say without evidence as they have form

    It's an argument that doesn't make any sense to me.

    The US case for Iraqi WMD as presented by Colin Powell at the UN was based on one major defector, satellite imagery, and signals intelligence intercepts. The UK intelligence community presumably had very similar information. Fundamentally it was an assessment of things that were remote, covert, and fragmentary. It was mostly wrong, although there were a few remants of previous Iraqi WMD programmes found after the war.

    The UK intelligence assessment of the nerve agent attack is based on first-hand analysis of the agent and its effects, and likely includes some very clever chemical forensics capability that we have built up since the Litvinenko murder. The identification was so prompt that I think we have surprised the Russians by our capabilities.

    I get why people are suspicious post Iraq, but it's really not a like for like comparable issue.


  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,138

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    Alastair - nobody will change your views on Brexit no matter what happens
    Note, I am a relative moderate. I don’t want to stop Brexit, I don’t agree with the idea of a second referendum. The pool of the persuadable is small and shrinking. But somehow Leave are going to need to build at least a sullen acquiescence. They haven’t started yet and have gone backwards in the last 18 months.
  • A train believed to be carrying a senior North Korean official has arrived in Beijing, Japanese media report.

    Bloomberg news said the visitor was North Korea's leader Kim Jong-un himself, citing three unnamed sources

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-43547044

    So now he's playing with his train set?
  • franklynfranklyn Posts: 120
    I went to the demonstration in Parliament Square today. It was a civilized and polite affair and I hope that Corbyn gets the message, but doubt that he will. My thanks to the Labour MPs who attended to show their support, and was interested to see two Conservatives, including a minister (there may have been more, just two with recognisable faces). The two community organisations which spoke out are normally very restrained, and the fact that they wrote in the terms that they did speaks volumes.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,138
    HYUFD said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    52% of the voters and 401 out of 632 constituencies voted Leave.

    Leavers don't need to persuade anyone, just hold what they got, it is Remainers who need to do the persuading if they are ever going to get a majority to stay in the single market and customs union, let alone to reverse Brexit and stay in the EU
    Old voters die. If Leavers don’t replace their pool of voters, they’re going to be outnumbered sooner rather than later. This is very much Leave’s problem.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 679

    A train believed to be carrying a senior North Korean official has arrived in Beijing, Japanese media report.

    Bloomberg news said the visitor was North Korea's leader Kim Jong-un himself, citing three unnamed sources

    Maybe he's come to seek asylum?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,436
    glw said:

    FPT:

    marke09 said:

    Leanne Wood leader of Plaid Cymru is a disgrace - she wont back Russian actions as she doesn't believe a word the Tories say without evidence as they have form

    It's an argument that doesn't make any sense to me.

    The US case for Iraqi WMD as presented by Colin Powell at the UN was based on one major defector, satellite imagery, and signals intelligence intercepts. The UK intelligence community presumably had very similar information. Fundamentally it was an assessment of things that were remote, covert, and fragmentary. It was mostly wrong, although there were a few remants of previous Iraqi WMD programmes found after the war.

    The UK intelligence assessment of the nerve agent attack is based on first-hand analysis of the agent and its effects, and likely includes some very clever chemical forensics capability that we have built up since the Litvinenko murder. The identification was so prompt that I think we have surprised the Russians by our capabilities.

    I get why people are suspicious post Iraq, but it's really not a like for like comparable issue.


    Whilst all of this is true the damage that Blair and Campbell did to the credibility of a British PM really cannot be underestimated. It is shameful and every subsequent government has paid and will continue to pay the price for their dishonesty.
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 659
    HYUFD said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    52% of the voters and 401 out of 632 constituencies voted Leave.

    Leavers don't need to persuade anyone, just hold what they got, it is Remainers who need to do the persuading if they are ever going to get a majority to stay in the single market and customs union, let alone to reverse Brexit and stay in the EU
    Exactly. Do you think remainers would have given a d**n about what leave voters thought or wanted had remain won?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,798
    brendan16 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    52% of the voters and 401 out of 632 constituencies voted Leave.

    Leavers don't need to persuade anyone, just hold what they got, it is Remainers who need to do the persuading if they are ever going to get a majority to stay in the single market and customs union, let alone to reverse Brexit and stay in the EU
    Exactly. Do you think remainers would have given a d**n about what leave voters thought or wanted had remain won?
    Yes, because it's quite likely a narrow Remain win would have led to an SNP effect and party politics would be dramatically different.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,542
    glw said:

    FPT:

    marke09 said:

    Leanne Wood leader of Plaid Cymru is a disgrace - she wont back Russian actions as she doesn't believe a word the Tories say without evidence as they have form

    It's an argument that doesn't make any sense to me.

    The US case for Iraqi WMD as presented by Colin Powell at the UN was based on one major defector, satellite imagery, and signals intelligence intercepts. The UK intelligence community presumably had very similar information. Fundamentally it was an assessment of things that were remote, covert, and fragmentary. It was mostly wrong, although there were a few remants of previous Iraqi WMD programmes found after the war.

    The UK intelligence assessment of the nerve agent attack is based on first-hand analysis of the agent and its effects, and likely includes some very clever chemical forensics capability that we have built up since the Litvinenko murder. The identification was so prompt that I think we have surprised the Russians by our capabilities.

    I get why people are suspicious post Iraq, but it's really not a like for like comparable issue.


    Her position is even more confused as the Tories were not involved in the Iraq process at all...
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 957
    HYUFD said:

    'Despite Brexit' London remains the world's financial centre, just ahead of New York a new study shows. Hong Kong is third, Singapore 4th and Tokyo 5th.

    Frankfurt meanwhile is down 9 places to 20th.

    http://www.cityam.com/282918/london-remains-top-world-global-financial-services-says

    Ah but that's because we haven't invoked Article 50 yet.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,103

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    Alastair - nobody will change your views on Brexit no matter what happens
    Note, I am a relative moderate. I don’t want to stop Brexit, I don’t agree with the idea of a second referendum. The pool of the persuadable is small and shrinking. But somehow Leave are going to need to build at least a sullen acquiescence. They haven’t started yet and have gone backwards in the last 18 months.
    But you do not help by your own tone. I do respect you for many of your contributions but on Brexit you are so predictable and do not attempt to cross the divide yourself.

    While I voted remain we have to leave and I hope the relationship TM has with EU leaders will result in a fair deal. Only time will tell
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,436

    glw said:

    FPT:

    marke09 said:

    Leanne Wood leader of Plaid Cymru is a disgrace - she wont back Russian actions as she doesn't believe a word the Tories say without evidence as they have form

    It's an argument that doesn't make any sense to me.

    The US case for Iraqi WMD as presented by Colin Powell at the UN was based on one major defector, satellite imagery, and signals intelligence intercepts. The UK intelligence community presumably had very similar information. Fundamentally it was an assessment of things that were remote, covert, and fragmentary. It was mostly wrong, although there were a few remants of previous Iraqi WMD programmes found after the war.

    The UK intelligence assessment of the nerve agent attack is based on first-hand analysis of the agent and its effects, and likely includes some very clever chemical forensics capability that we have built up since the Litvinenko murder. The identification was so prompt that I think we have surprised the Russians by our capabilities.

    I get why people are suspicious post Iraq, but it's really not a like for like comparable issue.


    Her position is even more confused as the Tories were not involved in the Iraq process at all...
    The only reason to listen to Leanne Wood is her delightful lilting accent. Focussing on the words is just a waste of time.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,828
    https://order-order.com/2018/03/26/shahmir-smoking-gun-no/

    lol, what, exactly, are the electoral commission supposed to be investigating?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 10,102

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    AM

    Out of interest are your views widely shared among your real-world acquaintances ?

    I'm curious because in my little part of the world people rarely mention politics and even less so with any fervency.

    Certainly they might not like politician X or policy Y but they accept them and get on with their own lives.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,138

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    Alastair - nobody will change your views on Brexit no matter what happens
    Note, I am a relative moderate. I don’t want to stop Brexit, I don’t agree with the idea of a second referendum. The pool of the persuadable is small and shrinking. But somehow Leave are going to need to build at least a sullen acquiescence. They haven’t started yet and have gone backwards in the last 18 months.
    But you do not help by your own tone. I do respect you for many of your contributions but on Brexit you are so predictable and do not attempt to cross the divide yourself.

    While I voted remain we have to leave and I hope the relationship TM has with EU leaders will result in a fair deal. Only time will tell
    Of course I don’t attempt to cross the divide. The Leave advocates on here are in denial about the xenophobic lies they fell in behind. This is disgusting and not to be compromised with. Until the nature of the campaign is acknowledged, there’s mo common ground to be found.

    I understand that Conservative Remain supporters feel obliged to identify with their captors. I have no need to do so,
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 2,716

    A train believed to be carrying a senior North Korean official has arrived in Beijing, Japanese media report.

    Bloomberg news said the visitor was North Korea's leader Kim Jong-un himself, citing three unnamed sources

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-43547044

    I have money with Ladbrokes that any meeting between Kim and Trump will be in China. I was going to top up but the market seems to have disappeared.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,470
    @Charles - I'd love not to have had to listen to that EU INTA/IMCO debate, but the EU are with this legislation, unless modified significantly, going to crucify the rare book industry.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 2,028
    edited March 26
    DavidL said:

    Toms said:

    Well, the overspending wouldn't be Cricket, would it?

    I fear that phrase is on the endangered list. Which is a shame, however much amusement the convicts are giving at the moment.
    Not cricket was, however, originally sarcastic. Referring to the widespread cheating, match-fixing, gambling, prostitution, drinking and fighting associated with the game as the first professional sport.

    Edit: Amongst players and spectators.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 2,716

    I continue to back Leaving on time at this price, which is still generous.

    I presume some punters are still concerned at the passage of the EU withdrawal bill in the Lords, which will all kick off in the next few weeks, and whether the Commons will vote through the Withdrawal deal post October.

    I'm surprised that you can 20 on Betfair on an exit date in Q2 next year. I would have thought there is fair chance there is a few days slippage.
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 957

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    Alastair - nobody will change your views on Brexit no matter what happens
    Note, I am a relative moderate. I don’t want to stop Brexit, I don’t agree with the idea of a second referendum. The pool of the persuadable is small and shrinking. But somehow Leave are going to need to build at least a sullen acquiescence. They haven’t started yet and have gone backwards in the last 18 months.
    But you do not help by your own tone. I do respect you for many of your contributions but on Brexit you are so predictable and do not attempt to cross the divide yourself.

    While I voted remain we have to leave and I hope the relationship TM has with EU leaders will result in a fair deal. Only time will tell
    Out of Remain supporterd I know in real life, about a third aren't too bothered, a third are unhappy but grudgingly accept they lost, and a third are in Meeks-like implacable anger at Leave voters. The idea that the latter are "moderates" is amusing.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,103

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    Alastair - nobody will change your views on Brexit no matter what happens
    Note, I am a relative moderate. I don’t want to stop Brexit, I don’t agree with the idea of a second referendum. The pool of the persuadable is small and shrinking. But somehow Leave are going to need to build at least a sullen acquiescence. They haven’t started yet and have gone backwards in the last 18 months.
    But you do not help by your own tone. I do respect you for many of your contributions but on Brexit you are so predictable and do not attempt to cross the divide yourself.

    While I voted remain we have to leave and I hope the relationship TM has with EU leaders will result in a fair deal. Only time will tell
    Of course I don’t attempt to cross the divide. The Leave advocates on here are in denial about the xenophobic lies they fell in behind. This is disgusting and not to be compromised with. Until the nature of the campaign is acknowledged, there’s mo common ground to be found.

    I understand that Conservative Remain supporters feel obliged to identify with their captors. I have no need to do so,
    No one captures me and that statement demonstrates your own prejeudices, sadly
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,645
    Elliot said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Despite Brexit' London remains the world's financial centre, just ahead of New York a new study shows. Hong Kong is third, Singapore 4th and Tokyo 5th.

    Frankfurt meanwhile is down 9 places to 20th.

    http://www.cityam.com/282918/london-remains-top-world-global-financial-services-says

    Ah but that's because we haven't invoked Article 50 yet.
    We have invoked it, we did so last March
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 2,631
    Elliot said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Despite Brexit' London remains the world's financial centre, just ahead of New York a new study shows. Hong Kong is third, Singapore 4th and Tokyo 5th.

    Frankfurt meanwhile is down 9 places to 20th.

    http://www.cityam.com/282918/london-remains-top-world-global-financial-services-says

    Ah but that's because we haven't invoked Article 50 yet.
    Tomorrow never comes for you does it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,645

    brendan16 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    52% of the voters and 401 out of 632 constituencies voted Leave.

    Leavers don't need to persuade anyone, just hold what they got, it is Remainers who need to do the persuading if they are ever going to get a majority to stay in the single market and customs union, let alone to reverse Brexit and stay in the EU
    Exactly. Do you think remainers would have given a d**n about what leave voters thought or wanted had remain won?
    Yes, because it's quite likely a narrow Remain win would have led to an SNP effect and party politics would be dramatically different.
    A narrow Remain win would have led to a UKIP surge in all likelihood certainly
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,436
    dixiedean said:

    DavidL said:

    Toms said:

    Well, the overspending wouldn't be Cricket, would it?

    I fear that phrase is on the endangered list. Which is a shame, however much amusement the convicts are giving at the moment.
    Not cricket was, however, originally sarcastic. Referring to the widespread cheating, match-fixing, gambling, prostitution, drinking and fighting associated with the game as the first professional sport.
    Really? I didn't know that. There is nothing new under the sun is there?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,138

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    AM

    Out of interest are your views widely shared among your real-world acquaintances ?

    I'm curious because in my little part of the world people rarely mention politics and even less so with any fervency.

    Certainly they might not like politician X or policy Y but they accept them and get on with their own lives.
    Brexit is alive like no other political topic. I’m not joking when I say I’m a moderate.

    I was travelling on a train from Birmingham to London last week (second class because I’m a man of the people). Behind me an old man fell into conversation with his neighbour. The old boy, who turned out to be in his 90s, told his neighbour that he had felt the same sense of dread about the referendum vote that he had felt on the outbreak of World War Two. A Scottish friend of his had burst into tears on the news.

    In work meetings it is a routine topic of conversation (one I avoid because it arouses too many passions in others). In London you see personal ads where writers specify no Leave voters.

    This is as live and raw as it was when the vote came out. The mood in London is not far off a city under occupation.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,645

    HYUFD said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    52% of the voters and 401 out of 632 constituencies voted Leave.

    Leavers don't need to persuade anyone, just hold what they got, it is Remainers who need to do the persuading if they are ever going to get a majority to stay in the single market and customs union, let alone to reverse Brexit and stay in the EU
    Old voters die. If Leavers don’t replace their pool of voters, they’re going to be outnumbered sooner rather than later. This is very much Leave’s problem.
    Given the average age at which someone voted Leave rather than Remain was between 45 to 50 you are going to have to wait some time before there is a clear Remain majority through demographics alone, by which time our position outside the EU will have been secured
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 2,716
    HYUFD said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    52% of the voters and 401 out of 632 constituencies voted Leave.

    Leavers don't need to persuade anyone, just hold what they got, it is Remainers who need to do the persuading if they are ever going to get a majority to stay in the single market and customs union, let alone to reverse Brexit and stay in the EU
    It is MPs they have to persuade. 70%+ of MPs are Remainers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,645
    brendan16 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    52% of the voters and 401 out of 632 constituencies voted Leave.

    Leavers don't need to persuade anyone, just hold what they got, it is Remainers who need to do the persuading if they are ever going to get a majority to stay in the single market and customs union, let alone to reverse Brexit and stay in the EU
    Exactly. Do you think remainers would have given a d**n about what leave voters thought or wanted had remain won?
    They wouldn't but Leave voters would
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,645
    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    52% of the voters and 401 out of 632 constituencies voted Leave.

    Leavers don't need to persuade anyone, just hold what they got, it is Remainers who need to do the persuading if they are ever going to get a majority to stay in the single market and customs union, let alone to reverse Brexit and stay in the EU
    It is MPs they have to persuade. 70%+ of MPs are Remainers.
    498 MPs voted to invoke Article 50, only 114 MPs voted against doing so, they know who keeps them in their jobs
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,383
    edited March 26

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    AM

    Out of interest are your views widely shared among your real-world acquaintances ?

    I'm curious because in my little part of the world people rarely mention politics and even less so with any fervency.

    Certainly they might not like politician X or policy Y but they accept them and get on with their own lives.
    Brexit is alive like no other political topic. I’m not joking when I say I’m a moderate.

    I was travelling on a train from Birmingham to London last week (second class because I’m a man of the people). Behind me an old man fell into conversation with his neighbour. The old boy, who turned out to be in his 90s, told his neighbour that he had felt the same sense of dread about the referendum vote that he had felt on the outbreak of World War Two. A Scottish friend of his had burst into tears on the news.

    In work meetings it is a routine topic of conversation (one I avoid because it arouses too many passions in others). In London you see personal ads where writers specify no Leave voters.

    This is as live and raw as it was when the vote came out. The mood in London is not far off a city under occupation.
    I think you need to get out of the London bubble a bit more....I hardly meet anybody who talks Brexit, certainly not in the way a "moderate" such as yourself does day in day out and I interact with a profession who probably voted 99% Remain.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,470

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    AM

    Out of interest are your views widely shared among your real-world acquaintances ?

    I'm curious because in my little part of the world people rarely mention politics and even less so with any fervency.

    Certainly they might not like politician X or policy Y but they accept them and get on with their own lives.
    Interestingly my almost 100% remain, 100% metropolitan mates have accepted that we're leaving, and many have since defended the Brexit position as the democratic necessity.

    Only one person that I know actively advocates not Leaving. He is far older than me.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,451
    Mr Meek’s claims to be a moderate are laughable. His jihad against 17 plus million of his of countrymen is depressing and a sad reflection of a chap unable to come to terms with being in a minority view.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 20,666

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    AM

    Out of interest are your views widely shared among your real-world acquaintances ?

    I'm curious because in my little part of the world people rarely mention politics and even less so with any fervency.

    Certainly they might not like politician X or policy Y but they accept them and get on with their own lives.
    Brexit is alive like no other political topic. I’m not joking when I say I’m a moderate.

    I was travelling on a train from Birmingham to London last week (second class because I’m a man of the people). Behind me an old man fell into conversation with his neighbour. The old boy, who turned out to be in his 90s, told his neighbour that he had felt the same sense of dread about the referendum vote that he had felt on the outbreak of World War Two. A Scottish friend of his had burst into tears on the news.

    In work meetings it is a routine topic of conversation (one I avoid because it arouses too many passions in others). In London you see personal ads where writers specify no Leave voters.

    This is as live and raw as it was when the vote came out. The mood in London is not far off a city under occupation.
    You are no moderate, and talking about a city under occupation is ludicrous.

    You lost, and you have refused to behave like an adult about it.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 2,631

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    AM

    Out of interest are your views widely shared among your real-world acquaintances ?

    I'm curious because in my little part of the world people rarely mention politics and even less so with any fervency.

    Certainly they might not like politician X or policy Y but they accept them and get on with their own lives.
    Harvey is always very attentive.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 6,373
    edited March 26

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    Most Remainers already think the Leave case was dishonest. I don't think further revelations will make much difference to them either. I suppose it slightly undermines the "suck it up losers, get over it" line, which I think is Leave's best argument post referendum. We're certainly not leaving the EU because it will do any good.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 5,488
    Elliot said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    Alastair - nobody will change your views on Brexit no matter what happens
    Note, I am a relative moderate. I don’t want to stop Brexit, I don’t agree with the idea of a second referendum. The pool of the persuadable is small and shrinking. But somehow Leave are going to need to build at least a sullen acquiescence. They haven’t started yet and have gone backwards in the last 18 months.
    But you do not help by your own tone. I do respect you for many of your contributions but on Brexit you are so predictable and do not attempt to cross the divide yourself.

    While I voted remain we have to leave and I hope the relationship TM has with EU leaders will result in a fair deal. Only time will tell
    Out of Remain supporterd I know in real life, about a third aren't too bothered, a third are unhappy but grudgingly accept they lost, and a third are in Meeks-like implacable anger at Leave voters. The idea that the latter are "moderates" is amusing.
    In my office no one who voted no mentions it - they just get on with their lives.

    My brother who was passionate about remaining pre vote has accepted the result and never mentions it.

    Some people will never be prepared to move on - that really is their problem and no one elses.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 2,631

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    Alastair - nobody will change your views on Brexit no matter what happens
    Note, I am a relative moderate. I don’t want to stop Brexit, I don’t agree with the idea of a second referendum. The pool of the persuadable is small and shrinking. But somehow Leave are going to need to build at least a sullen acquiescence. They haven’t started yet and have gone backwards in the last 18 months.
    But you do not help by your own tone. I do respect you for many of your contributions but on Brexit you are so predictable and do not attempt to cross the divide yourself.

    While I voted remain we have to leave and I hope the relationship TM has with EU leaders will result in a fair deal. Only time will tell
    Of course I don’t attempt to cross the divide. The Leave advocates on here are in denial about the xenophobic lies they fell in behind. This is disgusting and not to be compromised with. Until the nature of the campaign is acknowledged, there’s mo common ground to be found.

    I understand that Conservative Remain supporters feel obliged to identify with their captors. I have no need to do so,
    Bigoted twerp
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,138
    Sean_F said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    AM

    Out of interest are your views widely shared among your real-world acquaintances ?

    I'm curious because in my little part of the world people rarely mention politics and even less so with any fervency.

    Certainly they might not like politician X or policy Y but they accept them and get on with their own lives.
    Brexit is alive like no other political topic. I’m not joking when I say I’m a moderate.

    I was travelling on a train from Birmingham to London last week (second class because I’m a man of the people). Behind me an old man fell into conversation with his neighbour. The old boy, who turned out to be in his 90s, told his neighbour that he had felt the same sense of dread about the referendum vote that he had felt on the outbreak of World War Two. A Scottish friend of his had burst into tears on the news.

    In work meetings it is a routine topic of conversation (one I avoid because it arouses too many passions in others). In London you see personal ads where writers specify no Leave voters.

    This is as live and raw as it was when the vote came out. The mood in London is not far off a city under occupation.
    You are no moderate, and talking about a city under occupation is ludicrous.

    You lost, and you have refused to behave like an adult about it.
    You revel in xenophobic lies. That is not something to passively accept.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 2,716
    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    52% of the voters and 401 out of 632 constituencies voted Leave.

    Leavers don't need to persuade anyone, just hold what they got, it is Remainers who need to do the persuading if they are ever going to get a majority to stay in the single market and customs union, let alone to reverse Brexit and stay in the EU
    It is MPs they have to persuade. 70%+ of MPs are Remainers.
    498 MPs voted to invoke Article 50, only 114 MPs voted against doing so, they know who keeps them in their jobs
    They were whipped into that vote. The vote on a Customs Union is going to be close.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,149
    Mortimer said:

    @Charles - I'd love not to have had to listen to that EU INTA/IMCO debate, but the EU are with this legislation, unless modified significantly, going to crucify the rare book industry.

    Buying opportunity?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,149
    Mortimer said:

    @Charles - I'd love not to have had to listen to that EU INTA/IMCO debate, but the EU are with this legislation, unless modified significantly, going to crucify the rare book industry.

    Buying opportunity?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 5,488
    franklyn said:

    I went to the demonstration in Parliament Square today. It was a civilized and polite affair and I hope that Corbyn gets the message, but doubt that he will. My thanks to the Labour MPs who attended to show their support, and was interested to see two Conservatives, including a minister (there may have been more, just two with recognisable faces). The two community organisations which spoke out are normally very restrained, and the fact that they wrote in the terms that they did speaks volumes.

    was it this guy?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/03/26/sad-day-british-jews-feel-have-come-westminster-make-stand/
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 581
    edited March 26
    FF43 said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    Most Remainers already think the Leave case was dishonest. I don't think further revelations will make much difference to them either. I suppose it slightly undermines the "suck it up losers, get over it", which I think is Leave's best argument post referendum. We're certainly not leaving the EU because it will do any good.
    Most Leavers think the Remain case (such that it was) was dishonest too. Project Fear's economic projections were so exaggerated the public saw them for what they were.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 20,666

    Sean_F said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    AM

    Out of interest are your views widely shared among your real-world acquaintances ?

    I'm curious because in my little part of the world people rarely mention politics and even less so with any fervency.

    Certainly they might not like politician X or policy Y but they accept them and get on with their own lives.
    Brexit is alive like no other political topic. I’m not joking when I say I’m a moderate.

    I was travelling on a train from Birmingham to London last week (second class because I’m a man of the people). Behind me an old man fell into conversation with his neighbour. The old boy, who turned out to be in his 90s, told his neighbour that he had felt the same sense of dread about the referendum vote that he had felt on the outbreak of World War Two. A Scottish friend of his had burst into tears on the news.

    In work meetings it is a routine topic of conversation (one I avoid because it arouses too many passions in others). In London you see personal ads where writers specify no Leave voters.

    This is as live and raw as it was when the vote came out. The mood in London is not far off a city under occupation.
    You are no moderate, and talking about a city under occupation is ludicrous.

    You lost, and you have refused to behave like an adult about it.
    You revel in xenophobic lies. That is not something to passively accept.
    You're a bigot. But, the rest of us manage to put up with it.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,222


    I think you need to get out of the London bubble a bit more....I hardly meet anybody who talks Brexit, certainly not in the way a "moderate" such as yourself does day in day out and I interact with a profession who probably voted 99% Remain.

    Well, I think it's cut through much more than politics usually does. I have a fairly diverse social circle (in Surrey) and it's often mentioned, in much the same way as the weather - wry jokes, gloomy prognostications. It's rarely intense but it's common in a way that, say, the aftermath of the 2015 election really wasn't.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,149

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    AM

    Out of interest are your views widely shared among your real-world acquaintances ?

    I'm curious because in my little part of the world people rarely mention politics and even less so with any fervency.

    Certainly they might not like politician X or policy Y but they accept them and get on with their own lives.
    Brexit is alive like no other political topic. I’m not joking when I say I’m a moderate.

    I was travelling on a train from Birmingham to London last week (second class because I’m a man of the people). Behind me an old man fell into conversation with his neighbour. The old boy, who turned out to be in his 90s, told his neighbour that he had felt the same sense of dread about the referendum vote that he had felt on the outbreak of World War Two. A Scottish friend of his had burst into tears on the news.

    In work meetings it is a routine topic of conversation (one I avoid because it arouses too many passions in others). In London you see personal ads where writers specify no Leave voters.

    This is as live and raw as it was when the vote came out. The mood in London is not far off a city under occupation.
    I live in London (well zone 2) and my experience is diametrically opposite. No one gets upset. No one discusses it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,383
    edited March 26


    I think you need to get out of the London bubble a bit more....I hardly meet anybody who talks Brexit, certainly not in the way a "moderate" such as yourself does day in day out and I interact with a profession who probably voted 99% Remain.

    Well, I think it's cut through much more than politics usually does. I have a fairly diverse social circle (in Surrey) and it's often mentioned, in much the same way as the weather - wry jokes, gloomy prognostications. It's rarely intense but it's common in a way that, say, the aftermath of the 2015 election really wasn't.
    I am not sure Surrey counts as much out of the London bubble...
  • Floater said:

    Elliot said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    Alastair - nobody will change your views on Brexit no matter what happens
    Note, I am a relative moderate. I don’t want to stop Brexit, I don’t agree with the idea of a second referendum. The pool of the persuadable is small and shrinking. But somehow Leave are going to need to build at least a sullen acquiescence. They haven’t started yet and have gone backwards in the last 18 months.
    But you do not help by your own tone. I do respect you for many of your contributions but on Brexit you are so predictable and do not attempt to cross the divide yourself.

    While I voted remain we have to leave and I hope the relationship TM has with EU leaders will result in a fair deal. Only time will tell
    Out of Remain supporterd I know in real life, about a third aren't too bothered, a third are unhappy but grudgingly accept they lost, and a third are in Meeks-like implacable anger at Leave voters. The idea that the latter are "moderates" is amusing.
    In my office no one who voted no mentions it - they just get on with their lives.

    My brother who was passionate about remaining pre vote has accepted the result and never mentions it.

    Some people will never be prepared to move on - that really is their problem and no one elses.
    I understand that Mr Meeks feels raw about the situation. It is a form of bereavement when part of your world is changed and you cannot control that. Let's try and keep being kind to each other though.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 2,631

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    AM

    Out of interest are your views widely shared among your real-world acquaintances ?

    I'm curious because in my little part of the world people rarely mention politics and even less so with any fervency.

    Certainly they might not like politician X or policy Y but they accept them and get on with their own lives.
    Brexit is alive like no other political topic. I’m not joking when I say I’m a moderate.

    I was travelling on a train from Birmingham to London last week (second class because I’m a man of the people). Behind me an old man fell into conversation with his neighbour. The old boy, who turned out to be in his 90s, told his neighbour that he had felt the same sense of dread about the referendum vote that he had felt on the outbreak of World War Two. A Scottish friend of his had burst into tears on the news.

    In work meetings it is a routine topic of conversation (one I avoid because it arouses too many passions in others). In London you see personal ads where writers specify no Leave voters.

    This is as live and raw as it was when the vote came out. The mood in London is not far off a city under occupation.
    That is utter tosh. AM speaking for London. He really is up his own arse isn't he.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,413

    Floater said:

    Elliot said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    Alastair - nobody will change your views on Brexit no matter what happens
    Note, I am a relative moderate. I don’t want to stop Brexit, I don’t agree with the idea of a second referendum. The pool of the persuadable is small and shrinking. But somehow Leave are going to need to build at least a sullen acquiescence. They haven’t started yet and have gone backwards in the last 18 months.
    But you do not help by your own tone. I do respect you for many of your contributions but on Brexit you are so predictable and do not attempt to cross the divide yourself.

    While I voted remain we have to leave and I hope the relationship TM has with EU leaders will result in a fair deal. Only time will tell
    Out of Remain supporterd I know in real life, about a third aren't too bothered, a third are unhappy but grudgingly accept they lost, and a third are in Meeks-like implacable anger at Leave voters. The idea that the latter are "moderates" is amusing.
    In my office no one who voted no mentions it - they just get on with their lives.

    My brother who was passionate about remaining pre vote has accepted the result and never mentions it.

    Some people will never be prepared to move on - that really is their problem and no one elses.
    I understand that Mr Meeks feels raw about the situation. It is a form of bereavement when part of your world is changed and you cannot control that. Let's try and keep being kind to each other though.
    Hope you would feel the same way if these move on funding succeed in impeding Brexit. If the funding rules were broken then we could see a whole new ball game.
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 957
    Charles said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    AM

    Out of interest are your views widely shared among your real-world acquaintances ?

    I'm curious because in my little part of the world people rarely mention politics and even less so with any fervency.

    Certainly they might not like politician X or policy Y but they accept them and get on with their own lives.
    Brexit is alive like no other political topic. I’m not joking when I say I’m a moderate.

    I was travelling on a train from Birmingham to London last week (second class because I’m a man of the people). Behind me an old man fell into conversation with his neighbour. The old boy, who turned out to be in his 90s, told his neighbour that he had felt the same sense of dread about the referendum vote that he had felt on the outbreak of World War Two. A Scottish friend of his had burst into tears on the news.

    In work meetings it is a routine topic of conversation (one I avoid because it arouses too many passions in others). In London you see personal ads where writers specify no Leave voters.

    This is as live and raw as it was when the vote came out. The mood in London is not far off a city under occupation.
    I live in London (well zone 2) and my experience is diametrically opposite. No one gets upset. No one discusses it.
    Perhaps you mix in circles socially adept enough to not need to rely on personal ads to find a date.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 2,028
    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    DavidL said:

    Toms said:

    Well, the overspending wouldn't be Cricket, would it?

    I fear that phrase is on the endangered list. Which is a shame, however much amusement the convicts are giving at the moment.
    Not cricket was, however, originally sarcastic. Referring to the widespread cheating, match-fixing, gambling, prostitution, drinking and fighting associated with the game as the first professional sport.
    Really? I didn't know that. There is nothing new under the sun is there?
    The first professional teams were formed by high-stakes gamblers. Matches were somewhat festivals of bacchanalia. Attracting all kinds of reprobates. The players themselves were looked down on as they were not "gentlemen amateurs".
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,070
    Charles said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    AM

    Out of interest are your views widely shared among your real-world acquaintances ?

    I'm curious because in my little part of the world people rarely mention politics and even less so with any fervency.

    Certainly they might not like politician X or policy Y but they accept them and get on with their own lives.
    Brexit is alive like no other political topic. I’m not joking when I say I’m a moderate.

    I was travelling on a train from Birmingham to London last week (second class because I’m a man of the people). Behind me an old man fell into conversation with his neighbour. The old boy, who turned out to be in his 90s, told his neighbour that he had felt the same sense of dread about the referendum vote that he had felt on the outbreak of World War Two. A Scottish friend of his had burst into tears on the news.

    In work meetings it is a routine topic of conversation (one I avoid because it arouses too many passions in others). In London you see personal ads where writers specify no Leave voters.

    This is as live and raw as it was when the vote came out. The mood in London is not far off a city under occupation.
    I live in London (well zone 2) and my experience is diametrically opposite. No one gets upset. No one discusses it.
    Zone 2? (Shrugs shoulders..)
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 581

    Floater said:

    Elliot said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    Alastair - nobody will change your views on Brexit no matter what happens
    Note, I am a relative moderate. I don’t want to stop Brexit, I don’t agree with the idea of a second referendum. The pool of the persuadable is small and shrinking. But somehow Leave are going to need to build at least a sullen acquiescence. They haven’t started yet and have gone backwards in the last 18 months.
    But you do not help by your own tone. I do respect you for many of your contributions but on Brexit you are so predictable and do not attempt to cross the divide yourself.

    While I voted remain we have to leave and I hope the relationship TM has with EU leaders will result in a fair deal. Only time will tell
    Out of Remain supporterd I know in real life, about a third aren't too bothered, a third are unhappy but grudgingly accept they lost, and a third are in Meeks-like implacable anger at Leave voters. The idea that the latter are "moderates" is amusing.
    In my office no one who voted no mentions it - they just get on with their lives.

    My brother who was passionate about remaining pre vote has accepted the result and never mentions it.

    Some people will never be prepared to move on - that really is their problem and no one elses.
    I understand that Mr Meeks feels raw about the situation. It is a form of bereavement when part of your world is changed and you cannot control that. Let's try and keep being kind to each other though.
    Hope you would feel the same way if these move on funding succeed in impeding Brexit. If the funding rules were broken then we could see a whole new ball game.
    What whole new ball game?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 10,102

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    AM

    Out of interest are your views widely shared among your real-world acquaintances ?

    I'm curious because in my little part of the world people rarely mention politics and even less so with any fervency.

    Certainly they might not like politician X or policy Y but they accept them and get on with their own lives.
    Brexit is alive like no other political topic. I’m not joking when I say I’m a moderate.

    I was travelling on a train from Birmingham to London last week (second class because I’m a man of the people). Behind me an old man fell into conversation with his neighbour. The old boy, who turned out to be in his 90s, told his neighbour that he had felt the same sense of dread about the referendum vote that he had felt on the outbreak of World War Two. A Scottish friend of his had burst into tears on the news.

    In work meetings it is a routine topic of conversation (one I avoid because it arouses too many passions in others). In London you see personal ads where writers specify no Leave voters.

    This is as live and raw as it was when the vote came out. The mood in London is not far off a city under occupation.
    Yet you seem to be the only person talking this way.

    Other PB Remain voters aren't.

    I don't see any BBC or Guardian articles referring to London being in the mood of a city under occupation.
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 957

    Floater said:

    Elliot said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    Alastair - nobody will change your views on Brexit no matter what happens
    Note, I am a relative moderate. I don’t want to stop Brexit, I don’t agree with the idea of a second referendum. The pool of the persuadable is small and shrinking. But somehow Leave are going to need to build at least a sullen acquiescence. They haven’t started yet and have gone backwards in the last 18 months.
    But you do not help by your own tone. I do respect you for many of your contributions but on Brexit you are so predictable and do not attempt to cross the divide yourself.

    While I voted remain we have to leave and I hope the relationship TM has with EU leaders will result in a fair deal. Only time will tell
    Out of Remain supporterd I know in real life, about a third aren't too bothered, a third are unhappy but grudgingly accept they lost, and a third are in Meeks-like implacable anger at Leave voters. The idea that the latter are "moderates" is amusing.
    In my office no one who voted no mentions it - they just get on with their lives.

    My brother who was passionate about remaining pre vote has accepted the result and never mentions it.

    Some people will never be prepared to move on - that really is their problem and no one elses.
    I understand that Mr Meeks feels raw about the situation. It is a form of bereavement when part of your world is changed and you cannot control that. Let's try and keep being kind to each other though.
    Hope you would feel the same way if these move on funding succeed in impeding Brexit. If the funding rules were broken then we could see a whole new ball game.
    Given Remain spent more in every camaign category and also spent £9m of taxpayers' money on it, I doubt £600k will be the game changer you are hoping for.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 5,488

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    AM

    Out of interest are your views widely shared among your real-world acquaintances ?

    I'm curious because in my little part of the world people rarely mention politics and even less so with any fervency.

    Certainly they might not like politician X or policy Y but they accept them and get on with their own lives.
    Brexit is alive like no other political topic. I’m not joking when I say I’m a moderate.

    I was travelling on a train from Birmingham to London last week (second class because I’m a man of the people). Behind me an old man fell into conversation with his neighbour. The old boy, who turned out to be in his 90s, told his neighbour that he had felt the same sense of dread about the referendum vote that he had felt on the outbreak of World War Two. A Scottish friend of his had burst into tears on the news.

    In work meetings it is a routine topic of conversation (one I avoid because it arouses too many passions in others). In London you see personal ads where writers specify no Leave voters.

    This is as live and raw as it was when the vote came out. The mood in London is not far off a city under occupation.
    Do give over lol
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,470
    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    @Charles - I'd love not to have had to listen to that EU INTA/IMCO debate, but the EU are with this legislation, unless modified significantly, going to crucify the rare book industry.

    Buying opportunity?
    Perhaps the opposite; the legislation seeks to make import of any book over 250 years more difficult (import licenses, import declarations that leave importers open to perjure themselves as it will be in many cases impossible to know the history of goods in free circulation for centuries) than today, and introduce unnecessary bureaucratic burdens. Some fools want to make it 100 years.

    When you bear in mind that most Antiquarian books printed before 1768 were:

    - printed in Europe
    - printed in hundreds or thousands of copies
    - still relatively cheap, many in the tens of pounds
    - and perhaps most importantly, not involved in terror financing

    it is an utterly bonkers draft law....

    Hilariously, also included in the cultural goods restrictions are postage stamps and photographs. Good luck finding c18th examples of those....
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,070
    edited March 26
    On topic: Nah. This latest brouhaha is not going to make any difference, for the very good reasons which Tim Shipman (who knows a thing or two about the subject, and who voted Remain, as it happens) has already pointed out:


  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,798
    Elliot said:

    Floater said:

    Elliot said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    Alastair - nobody will change your views on Brexit no matter what happens
    Note, I am a relative moderate. I don’t want to stop Brexit, I don’t agree with the idea of a second referendum. The pool of the persuadable is small and shrinking. But somehow Leave are going to need to build at least a sullen acquiescence. They haven’t started yet and have gone backwards in the last 18 months.
    But you do not help by your own tone. I do respect you for many of your contributions but on Brexit you are so predictable and do not attempt to cross the divide yourself.

    While I voted remain we have to leave and I hope the relationship TM has with EU leaders will result in a fair deal. Only time will tell
    Out of Remain supporterd I know in real life, about a third aren't too bothered, a third are unhappy but grudgingly accept they lost, and a third are in Meeks-like implacable anger at Leave voters. The idea that the latter are "moderates" is amusing.
    In my office no one who voted no mentions it - they just get on with their lives.

    My brother who was passionate about remaining pre vote has accepted the result and never mentions it.

    Some people will never be prepared to move on - that really is their problem and no one elses.
    I understand that Mr Meeks feels raw about the situation. It is a form of bereavement when part of your world is changed and you cannot control that. Let's try and keep being kind to each other though.
    Hope you would feel the same way if these move on funding succeed in impeding Brexit. If the funding rules were broken then we could see a whole new ball game.
    Given Remain spent more in every camaign category and also spent £9m of taxpayers' money on it, I doubt £600k will be the game changer you are hoping for.
    If it was done illegally and results in fines or prosecutions it will reduce the legitimacy of the 2016 at the same time as we approach the crunch decisions, which increases the political feasibility of a second referendum.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,470

    Charles said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    AM

    Out of interest are your views widely shared among your real-world acquaintances ?

    I'm curious because in my little part of the world people rarely mention politics and even less so with any fervency.

    Certainly they might not like politician X or policy Y but they accept them and get on with their own lives.
    Brexit is alive like no other political topic. I’m not joking when I say I’m a moderate.

    I was travelling on a train from Birmingham to London last week (second class because I’m a man of the people). Behind me an old man fell into conversation with his neighbour. The old boy, who turned out to be in his 90s, told his neighbour that he had felt the same sense of dread about the referendum vote that he had felt on the outbreak of World War Two. A Scottish friend of his had burst into tears on the news.

    In work meetings it is a routine topic of conversation (one I avoid because it arouses too many passions in others). In London you see personal ads where writers specify no Leave voters.

    This is as live and raw as it was when the vote came out. The mood in London is not far off a city under occupation.
    I live in London (well zone 2) and my experience is diametrically opposite. No one gets upset. No one discusses it.
    Zone 2? (Shrugs shoulders..)
    I have just come from the Groucho*. Didn't hear a peep about Brexit.

    * a gig held there, anyway.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,383
    Darren Lehmann to announce resignation as Australia coach as board considers 12-month bans for Steve Smith and David Warner

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2018/03/26/darren-lehmann-announce-resignation-australia-coach-board-considers/

    LOCK'EM UP...LOCK'EM UP....LOCK'EM UP
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 5,488

    Floater said:

    Elliot said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    Alastair - nobody will change your views on Brexit no matter what happens
    Note, I am a relative moderate. I don’t want to stop Brexit, I don’t agree with the idea of a second referendum. The pool of the persuadable is small and shrinking. But somehow Leave are going to need to build at least a sullen acquiescence. They haven’t started yet and have gone backwards in the last 18 months.
    But you do not help by your own tone. I do respect you for many of your contributions but on Brexit you are so predictable and do not attempt to cross the divide yourself.

    While I voted remain we have to leave and I hope the relationship TM has with EU leaders will result in a fair deal. Only time will tell
    Out of Remain supporterd I know in real life, about a third aren't too bothered, a third are unhappy but grudgingly accept they lost, and a third are in Meeks-like implacable anger at Leave voters. The idea that the latter are "moderates" is amusing.
    In my office no one who voted no mentions it - they just get on with their lives.

    My brother who was passionate about remaining pre vote has accepted the result and never mentions it.

    Some people will never be prepared to move on - that really is their problem and no one elses.
    I understand that Mr Meeks feels raw about the situation. It is a form of bereavement when part of your world is changed and you cannot control that. Let's try and keep being kind to each other though.
    Let me know when he starts
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 581
    It's becoming difficult to take Meeks seriously when he describes London in the way he has. Brexit really seems to have unhinged him. It's a real shame given the quality of some of his contributions to the site.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 2,631


    I think you need to get out of the London bubble a bit more....I hardly meet anybody who talks Brexit, certainly not in the way a "moderate" such as yourself does day in day out and I interact with a profession who probably voted 99% Remain.

    Well, I think it's cut through much more than politics usually does. I have a fairly diverse social circle (in Surrey) and it's often mentioned, in much the same way as the weather - wry jokes, gloomy prognostications. It's rarely intense but it's common in a way that, say, the aftermath of the 2015 election really wasn't.
    I am not sure Surrey counts as much out of the London bubble...
    I wonder who NP's circle in the Surrey bubble comprises, champagne socialists presumably.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 10,102

    Charles said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    AM

    Out of interest are your views widely shared among your real-world acquaintances ?

    I'm curious because in my little part of the world people rarely mention politics and even less so with any fervency.

    Certainly they might not like politician X or policy Y but they accept them and get on with their own lives.
    Brexit is alive like no other political topic. I’m not joking when I say I’m a moderate.

    I was travelling on a train from Birmingham to London last week (second class because I’m a man of the people). Behind me an old man fell into conversation with his neighbour. The old boy, who turned out to be in his 90s, told his neighbour that he had felt the same sense of dread about the referendum vote that he had felt on the outbreak of World War Two. A Scottish friend of his had burst into tears on the news.

    In work meetings it is a routine topic of conversation (one I avoid because it arouses too many passions in others). In London you see personal ads where writers specify no Leave voters.

    This is as live and raw as it was when the vote came out. The mood in London is not far off a city under occupation.
    I live in London (well zone 2) and my experience is diametrically opposite. No one gets upset. No one discusses it.
    Zone 2? (Shrugs shoulders..)
    I'm disappointed that Charles even knows what public transport is.

    :wink:
  • We talk about Brexit pretty much non stop in the office, apart from the times we discuss MiFID II.

    The loss of the passport is going to damage the financial services industry so much.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,138

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    AM

    Out of interest are your views widely shared among your real-world acquaintances ?

    I'm curious because in my little part of the world people rarely mention politics and even less so with any fervency.

    Certainly they might not like politician X or policy Y but they accept them and get on with their own lives.
    Brexit is alive like no other political topic. I’m not joking when I say I’m a moderate.

    I was travelling on a train from Birmingham to London last week (second class because I’m a man of the people). Behind me an old man fell into conversation with his neighbour. The old boy, who turned out to be in his 90s, told his neighbour that he had felt the same sense of dread about the referendum vote that he had felt on the outbreak of World War Two. A Scottish friend of his had burst into tears on the news.

    In work meetings it is a routine topic of conversation (one I avoid because it arouses too many passions in others). In London you see personal ads where writers specify no Leave voters.

    This is as live and raw as it was when the vote came out. The mood in London is not far off a city under occupation.
    Yet you seem to be the only person talking this way.

    Other PB Remain voters aren't.

    I don't see any BBC or Guardian articles referring to London being in the mood of a city under occupation.
    Look at the swings to Labour in London last year. That’s the sea change in votes.
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,031
    The leavers are salty because they know that we will have little more than BINO and even that will be swiftly reversed in the coming years.
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 957

    Elliot said:

    Floater said:

    Elliot said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    Alastair - nobody will change your views on Brexit no matter what happens
    ths.
    time will tell
    Out of Remain supporterd I know in real life, about a third aren't too bothered, a third are unhappy but grudgingly accept they lost, and a third are in Meeks-like implacable anger at Leave voters. The idea that the latter are "moderates" is amusing.
    In my office no one who voted no mentions it - they just get on with their lives.

    My brother who was passionate about remaining pre vote has accepted the result and never mentions it.

    Some people will never be prepared to move on - that really is their problem and no one elses.
    I understand that Mr Meeks feels raw about the situation. It is a form of bereavement when part of your world is changed and you cannot control that. Let's try and keep being kind to each other though.
    Hope you would feel the same way if these move on funding succeed in impeding Brexit. If the funding rules were broken then we could see a whole new ball game.
    Given Remain spent more in every camaign category and also spent £9m of taxpayers' money on it, I doubt £600k will be the game changer you are hoping for.
    If it was done illegally and results in fines or prosecutions it will reduce the legitimacy of the 2016 at the same time as we approach the crunch decisions, which increases the political feasibility of a second referendum.
    Increasing it off a miniscule base. Both the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition have no interest in a second referendum. The only way we will still be in the EU in ten years' time is if it turns out VoteLeave worked woth the Russians or if we rejoin pending Chuka Umunna's new Progressives party barnstorming to power.
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 581

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    AM

    Out of interest are your views widely shared among your real-world acquaintances ?

    I'm curious because in my little part of the world people rarely mention politics and even less so with any fervency.

    Certainly they might not like politician X or policy Y but they accept them and get on with their own lives.
    Brexit is alive like no other political topic. I’m not joking when I say I’m a moderate.

    I was travelling on a train from Birmingham to London last week (second class because I’m a man of the people). Behind me an old man fell into conversation with his neighbour. The old boy, who turned out to be in his 90s, told his neighbour that he had felt the same sense of dread about the referendum vote that he had felt on the outbreak of World War Two. A Scottish friend of his had burst into tears on the news.

    In work meetings it is a routine topic of conversation (one I avoid because it arouses too many passions in others). In London you see personal ads where writers specify no Leave voters.

    This is as live and raw as it was when the vote came out. The mood in London is not far off a city under occupation.
    Yet you seem to be the only person talking this way.

    Other PB Remain voters aren't.

    I don't see any BBC or Guardian articles referring to London being in the mood of a city under occupation.
    Look at the swings to Labour in London last year. That’s the sea change in votes.
    Are Labour going to reverse Brexit then?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,273
    edited March 26

    glw said:

    FPT:

    marke09 said:

    Leanne Wood leader of Plaid Cymru is a disgrace - she wont back Russian actions as she doesn't believe a word the Tories say without evidence as they have form

    It's an argument that doesn't make any sense to me.

    The US case for Iraqi WMD as presented by Colin Powell at the UN was based on one major defector, satellite imagery, and signals intelligence intercepts. The UK intelligence community presumably had very similar information. Fundamentally it was an assessment of things that were remote, covert, and fragmentary. It was mostly wrong, although there were a few remants of previous Iraqi WMD programmes found after the war.

    The UK intelligence assessment of the nerve agent attack is based on first-hand analysis of the agent and its effects, and likely includes some very clever chemical forensics capability that we have built up since the Litvinenko murder. The identification was so prompt that I think we have surprised the Russians by our capabilities.

    I get why people are suspicious post Iraq, but it's really not a like for like comparable issue.


    Her position is even more confused as the Tories were not involved in the Iraq process at all...
    Apart from IDS being gung ho for Iraq intervention before the dodgy dossier was a twinkle in A.Campbell's eye, & Con mps proportionally the strongest supporters of any party in the Iraq vote, yeah, not involved at all.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 5,488

    Floater said:

    Elliot said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    Alastair - nobody will change your views on Brexit no matter what happens
    Note, I am a relative moderate. I don’t want to stop Brexit, I don’t agree with the idea of a second referendum. The pool of the persuadable is small and shrinking. But somehow Leave are going to need to build at least a sullen acquiescence. They haven’t started yet and have gone backwards in the last 18 months.
    But you do not help by your own tone. I do respect you for many of your contributions but on Brexit you are so predictable and do not attempt to cross the divide yourself.

    While I voted remain we have to leave and I hope the relationship TM has with EU leaders will result in a fair deal. Only time will tell
    Out of Remain supporterd I know in real life, about a third aren't too bothered, a third are unhappy but grudgingly accept they lost, and a third are in Meeks-like implacable anger at Leave voters. The idea that the latter are "moderates" is amusing.
    In my office no one who voted no mentions it - they just get on with their lives.

    My brother who was passionate about remaining pre vote has accepted the result and never mentions it.

    Some people will never be prepared to move on - that really is their problem and no one elses.
    I understand that Mr Meeks feels raw about the situation. It is a form of bereavement when part of your world is changed and you cannot control that. Let's try and keep being kind to each other though.
    Hope you would feel the same way if these move on funding succeed in impeding Brexit. If the funding rules were broken then we could see a whole new ball game.
    I understand remain have questions to answer over spending.

    At other elections the Lib Dems and other parties have broken spending rules - As a society we punish the rule breakers and that is it - we do not overturn results.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,383
    edited March 26

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    AM

    Out of interest are your views widely shared among your real-world acquaintances ?

    I'm curious because in my little part of the world people rarely mention politics and even less so with any fervency.

    Certainly they might not like politician X or policy Y but they accept them and get on with their own lives.
    Brexit is alive like no other political topic. I’m not joking when I say I’m a moderate.

    I was travelling on a train from Birmingham to London last week (second class because I’m a man of the people). Behind me an old man fell into conversation with his neighbour. The old boy, who turned out to be in his 90s, told his neighbour that he had felt the same sense of dread about the referendum vote that he had felt on the outbreak of World War Two. A Scottish friend of his had burst into tears on the news.

    In work meetings it is a routine topic of conversation (one I avoid because it arouses too many passions in others). In London you see personal ads where writers specify no Leave voters.

    This is as live and raw as it was when the vote came out. The mood in London is not far off a city under occupation.
    Yet you seem to be the only person talking this way.

    Other PB Remain voters aren't.

    I don't see any BBC or Guardian articles referring to London being in the mood of a city under occupation.
    Look at the swings to Labour in London last year. That’s the sea change in votes.
    Was that Brexit or was that because Corbyn offered a load of stuff that sounded like it would address issues many of the young population of London have? Student loans, housing, minimum wage.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 5,429
    edited March 26

    Darren Lehmann to announce resignation as Australia coach as board considers 12-month bans for Steve Smith and David Warner

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2018/03/26/darren-lehmann-announce-resignation-australia-coach-board-considers/

    LOCK'EM UP...LOCK'EM UP....LOCK'EM UP

    That should be a de minimus.(the bans) Lehman has to carry the can
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,070

    Charles said:

    Boris Johnson could have been caught on camera taking roubles from Vladimir Putin in return for abolishing democracy after Brexit and Leavers would still want to press ahead. This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    AM

    Out of interest are your views widely shared among your real-world acquaintances ?

    I'm curious because in my little part of the world people rarely mention politics and even less so with any fervency.

    Certainly they might not like politician X or policy Y but they accept them and get on with their own lives.
    Brexit is alive like no other political topic. I’m not joking when I say I’m a moderate.

    I was travelling on a train from Birmingham to London last week (second class because I’m a man of the people). Behind me an old man fell into conversation with his neighbour. The old boy, who turned out to be in his 90s, told his neighbour that he had felt the same sense of dread about the referendum vote that he had felt on the outbreak of World War Two. A Scottish friend of his had burst into tears on the news.

    In work meetings it is a routine topic of conversation (one I avoid because it arouses too many passions in others). In London you see personal ads where writers specify no Leave voters.

    This is as live and raw as it was when the vote came out. The mood in London is not far off a city under occupation.
    I live in London (well zone 2) and my experience is diametrically opposite. No one gets upset. No one discusses it.
    Zone 2? (Shrugs shoulders..)
    I'm disappointed that Charles even knows what public transport is.

    :wink:
    I thought I was unshockable, having come across a Hapsburg prince who has to work for a living (albeit not very hard). Now I find that Charles lives in Zone 2. Whatever next?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,542

    Floater said:

    Elliot said:

    This story won’t stop Brexit.

    It might, however, make Leavers’ already difficult job of persuading the sceptical that bit harder. But Leavers seem quite clueless about how they are going to get Brexit to stick.

    Alastair - nobody will change your views on Brexit no matter what happens
    Note, I am a relative moderate. I don’t want to stop Brexit, I don’t agree with the idea of a second referendum. The pool of the persuadable is small and shrinking. But somehow Leave are going to need to build at least a sullen acquiescence. They haven’t started yet and have gone backwards in the last 18 months.
    But you do not help by your own tone. I do respect you for many of your contributions but on Brexit you are so predictable and do not attempt to cross the divide yourself.

    While I voted remain we have to leave and I hope the relationship TM has with EU leaders will result in a fair deal. Only time will tell
    Out of Remain supporterd I know in real life, about a third aren't too bothered, a third are unhappy but grudgingly accept they lost, and a third are in Meeks-like implacable anger at Leave voters. The idea that the latter are "moderates" is amusing.
    In my office no one who voted no mentions it - they just get on with their lives.

    My brother who was passionate about remaining pre vote has accepted the result and never mentions it.

    Some people will never be prepared to move on - that really is their problem and no one elses.
    I understand that Mr Meeks feels raw about the situation. It is a form of bereavement when part of your world is changed and you cannot control that. Let's try and keep being kind to each other though.
    Hope you would feel the same way if these move on funding succeed in impeding Brexit. If the funding rules were broken then we could see a whole new ball game.
    Only if it can be demonstrated to have actually altered the result. Given that, according to Electoral Commission figures, Remain spent £19 million compared to Leave's £13.4 million, it would seem that the amounts being talked about would not have made a significant difference - given how Remain spent more than £5 million more than Leave and still lost.

    But given both campaigns have been subject to scrutiny over the management of their finances, I can easily see why people are just not getting engaged over this. Remain spent more and lost
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