Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Introducing the Universal Ballot Database – A map which lets y

SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited March 27 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Introducing the Universal Ballot Database – A map which lets you zoom in and get ward level election results

On PB we always like to hear about innovative means of getting election and other data. Well let me alert you to Lawrence Ware’s grandly titled Universal Ballot Database which enables the user to zoom in, see the mapping of every individual ward n England and Wales and the results.

Read the full story here


«1345

Comments

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,145
    You can click on the map above to go to it by the way...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,645
    Will be useful for keeping tabs of the local election results as they come in in May
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 43,033
    Election anoraks can spend hours with this

    Where can one find these people ?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,429
    What is the penis in the Bristol Channel?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 43,033
    Ooh I'll be living in a Tory ward in 2 days time..
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,413

    You can click on the map above to go to it by the way...

    I've now put a link in the body text as well.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 5,657
    "The map below shows the highest placed candidate in the last stored local election held for the ward."
    Looks like it's from the main elections rather than by-elections - based on one ward I know of.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,138
    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,645

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    As did most polls before the actual referendum....
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 679

    What is the penis in the Bristol Channel?

    City of Bristol UA includes some of the islands in the Bristol Channel and the boundary of the district as shown on OS maps is drawn out to encompass them. I guess it follows that they are officially in one of Bristol's wards, although I think they're uninhabited.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 21,371

    What is the penis in the Bristol Channel?

    Avonmouth.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 43,033
    Going to have a look at my facebook data, all 3.5 GB apparently..
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664

    What is the penis in the Bristol Channel?


    It's the boundary of Bristol City Council – takes in a large sandbar in the Bristol Channel which is English territory. Almost touches the island of Flat Holm*, which is entirely Welsh territory albeit with its waters to the South West entirely in England.

    *Wales' most southerly point.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 27,669
    edited March 27

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    As Mr Glenn would say....The trend is your friend a 3 point narrowing to a 7 point gap.....tick tock.....
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,219
    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    Is that why the lead has dropped 3 points?
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664
    felix said:

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    Is that why the lead has dropped 3 points?
    MOE. The overall trend is for Remain being ahead.

    Very interesting indeed.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664

    What is the penis in the Bristol Channel?


    Jacob Rees-Mogg?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,145
    Anazina said:

    felix said:

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    Is that why the lead has dropped 3 points?
    MOE. The overall trend is for Remain being ahead.

    Very interesting indeed.
    "The Independent also reported updated figures for BMG’s EU Referendum tracker; reporting top-line figures of 53% for Remain, and 47% for Leave if a referendum were held today. The results show that 95% of Leave voters and 93% of Remain voters say that they have not changed their mind since the EU referendum."

    53/47 is of course a squeeze - it's the other number that do not point to any meaningful shift at all.
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,219
    Anazina said:

    felix said:

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    Is that why the lead has dropped 3 points?
    MOE. The overall trend is for Remain being ahead.

    Very interesting indeed.
    Lol - how's life on planet denial ?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 27,669
    Anazina said:

    felix said:

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    Is that why the lead has dropped 3 points?
    MOE. The overall trend is for Remain being ahead.

    Very interesting indeed.
    The results show that 95% of Leave voters and 93% of Remain voters say that they have not changed their mind since the EU referendum. Nearly all the top-line change since 2016 has come from those who did not vote at the referendum (73% Remain, 27% Leave).

    http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/bmg-poll-independent-public-say-will-short-term-pain-long-term-gain/
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,138
    The detail of the poll is noteworthy. No one really is changing their minds. The change is among those who didn’t vote in 2016, who are decisively breaking for Remain. This is the short term protection and the long term risk for Leave.

    But for some reason Leavers aren’t beginning to think about how to win new converts.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664

    The detail of the poll is noteworthy. No one really is changing their minds. The change is among those who didn’t vote in 2016, who are decisively breaking for Remain. This is the short term protection and the long term risk for Leave.

    But for some reason Leavers aren’t beginning to think about how to win new converts.

    Winning the battle, losing the war.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,513
    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664
    edited March 27

    Anazina said:

    felix said:

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    Is that why the lead has dropped 3 points?
    MOE. The overall trend is for Remain being ahead.

    Very interesting indeed.
    The results show that 95% of Leave voters and 93% of Remain voters say that they have not changed their mind since the EU referendum. Nearly all the top-line change since 2016 has come from those who did not vote at the referendum (73% Remain, 27% Leave).

    http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/bmg-poll-independent-public-say-will-short-term-pain-long-term-gain/
    Very interesting indeed. Youngsters and DNVs breaking heavily for Remain. Very bad news long term for turncoat neobrexiteers like yourself.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664
    felix said:

    Anazina said:

    felix said:

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    Is that why the lead has dropped 3 points?
    MOE. The overall trend is for Remain being ahead.

    Very interesting indeed.
    Lol - how's life on planet denial ?
    I wouldn't know, you tell me.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 12,470
    fpt

    Leavers used extremely unpleasant xenophobic lies to achieve their aim.

    Fine, the end justifies the means so what's all this complaining about.

    Except, there was a self-fulfilling prophecy element about the process. Those posters became emblematic and contributed in some way to the debate such that people endorsed, whether while holding their nose or not, a UK that didn't just want to take back control (weasel words used as an excuse in particular by those on here) but a UK that was actively xenophobic and a place which endorsed those posters and the ideology behind them.

    Leavers on here were happy, together with reclaiming their blessed sovereignty (we were always sovereign, of course) to contribute to the ideology, the perception, and the expectation that the UK is xenophobic and dislikes foreigners.

    It is in that light that one is entitled to ask: was it worth it?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,138

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems delusional.
    A minor edit for accuracy.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 27,669
    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    felix said:

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    Is that why the lead has dropped 3 points?
    MOE. The overall trend is for Remain being ahead.

    Very interesting indeed.
    The results show that 95% of Leave voters and 93% of Remain voters say that they have not changed their mind since the EU referendum. Nearly all the top-line change since 2016 has come from those who did not vote at the referendum (73% Remain, 27% Leave).

    http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/bmg-poll-independent-public-say-will-short-term-pain-long-term-gain/
    Very bad news long term for turncoat neobrexiteers like yourself.
    Condescension & name calling!

    That's the way to do it!

    Worked so well last time.....

    At least some of us learn as we progress through life....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 27,669

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664

    Anazina said:

    felix said:

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    Is that why the lead has dropped 3 points?
    MOE. The overall trend is for Remain being ahead.

    Very interesting indeed.
    "The Independent also reported updated figures for BMG’s EU Referendum tracker; reporting top-line figures of 53% for Remain, and 47% for Leave if a referendum were held today. The results show that 95% of Leave voters and 93% of Remain voters say that they have not changed their mind since the EU referendum."

    53/47 is of course a squeeze - it's the other number that do not point to any meaningful shift at all.
    Yes, Remain is consistently ahead. As you say, no shift.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    felix said:

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    Is that why the lead has dropped 3 points?
    MOE. The overall trend is for Remain being ahead.

    Very interesting indeed.
    The results show that 95% of Leave voters and 93% of Remain voters say that they have not changed their mind since the EU referendum. Nearly all the top-line change since 2016 has come from those who did not vote at the referendum (73% Remain, 27% Leave).

    http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/bmg-poll-independent-public-say-will-short-term-pain-long-term-gain/
    Very bad news long term for turncoat neobrexiteers like yourself.
    Condescension & name calling!

    That's the way to do it!

    Worked so well last time.....

    At least some of us learn as we progress through life....
    Yes you had clearly learned the last time you posted such hypocritical sanctimonious garbage when in your very next post you referred to committed pro-Europeans as "Remainiacs".
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 957
    If there is a "next time" it will not be Leave vs Remain but Rejoin or Don't rejoin after the 2025 election. And rejoin will require much higher membership fees and likely entry into Schengen and the Euro.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,451
    Any polling on support for "xenophobic lies" ?

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 43,033
    Elliot said:

    If there is a "next time" it will not be Leave vs Remain but Rejoin or Don't rejoin after the 2025 election. And rejoin will require much higher membership fees and likely entry into Schengen and the Euro.

    A good point, the question changes after March 2019.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,138

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,513
    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems delusional.
    A minor edit for accuracy.
    But, that works both ways: if I'm right, and you're wrong, you'll end up with serious egg on your face; any reaccession to the EU will be off the agenda for decades.

    When the numbers are that tight both sides need to appeal to the other.

    Telling those you disagree with to go f*ck themselves might not be the best way to win them over.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,513

    Anazina said:

    felix said:

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    Is that why the lead has dropped 3 points?
    MOE. The overall trend is for Remain being ahead.

    Very interesting indeed.
    "The Independent also reported updated figures for BMG’s EU Referendum tracker; reporting top-line figures of 53% for Remain, and 47% for Leave if a referendum were held today. The results show that 95% of Leave voters and 93% of Remain voters say that they have not changed their mind since the EU referendum."

    53/47 is of course a squeeze - it's the other number that do not point to any meaningful shift at all.
    "A" referendum, or "The" referendum?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 12,784

    The detail of the poll is noteworthy. No one really is changing their minds. The change is among those who didn’t vote in 2016, who are decisively breaking for Remain. This is the short term protection and the long term risk for Leave.

    But for some reason Leavers aren’t beginning to think about how to win new converts.

    Because they don't need to win converts. Remain ceases to exist as an option on 29/3/2019 and realistically ceases to be an option long before then.

    After that rejoin needs to win enough converts to overtake inertia.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664
    Pulpstar said:

    Elliot said:

    If there is a "next time" it will not be Leave vs Remain but Rejoin or Don't rejoin after the 2025 election. And rejoin will require much higher membership fees and likely entry into Schengen and the Euro.

    A good point, the question changes after March 2019.
    A big assumption, possibly accurate, possibly not. But conjecture.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 27,669

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time.
    Didn't the poll show that the public believe in decreasing numbers that Brexit is a mistake?
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 664

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time.
    Didn't the poll show that the public believe in decreasing numbers that Brexit is a mistake?
    I would explain MOE to you but I suspect the zeal of your conversion has eclipsed any remaining numeracy.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 43,033
    Anazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Elliot said:

    If there is a "next time" it will not be Leave vs Remain but Rejoin or Don't rejoin after the 2025 election. And rejoin will require much higher membership fees and likely entry into Schengen and the Euro.

    A good point, the question changes after March 2019.
    A big assumption, possibly accurate, possibly not. But conjecture.
    Tipped up by Meeks on Betfair, and currently odds on. So likely.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,451
    Remain would need to be polling 65% + to change the government approach.

    Or some sort of suicide mission by Labour to deny the result in the happy knowledge they would get smashed at the polls in 2022 for the u-turn.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 27,669
    edited March 27
    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time.
    Didn't the poll show that the public believe in decreasing numbers that Brexit is a mistake?
    I would explain MOE to you but I suspect the zeal of your conversion has eclipsed any remaining numeracy.
    Are you planning on converting to 'democracy' any time soon?

    Oh, and by the way:

    https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/do-you-think-there-should-be-a-second-referendum-on-whether-britain-remains-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-not/?removed
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,138

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time.
    Didn't the poll show that the public believe in decreasing numbers that Brexit is a mistake?
    Taken on an 18 month time horizon, no. By now Leave should be far ahead. But it has made next to no converts from Remain and is decisively losing in the pool of new available voters. This should seriously worry thoughtful Leavers. But that appears to be an oxymoron.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 27,669

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time.
    Didn't the poll show that the public believe in decreasing numbers that Brexit is a mistake?
    By now Leave should be far ahead.
    I think you win the prize for today's 'straw man'.

    I'd have thought it would be Remainers in search of a second referendum that should be seriously worried....

    https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/do-you-think-there-should-be-a-second-referendum-on-whether-britain-remains-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-not/?removed
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,731
    Totally O/t but has anyone seen this on the BBC
    'A bride and groom's bid to surprise guests by having a owl deliver their wedding rings did not go quite to plan.
    The bird was spooked by one of the seated best men pointing at it - and dived towards the individual.’
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-wales-43553909/bride-and-groom-s-owl-plans-are-a-hoot

    Which is of course what happens when you have free owls.
  • HHemmeligHHemmelig Posts: 572

    The detail of the poll is noteworthy. No one really is changing their minds. The change is among those who didn’t vote in 2016, who are decisively breaking for Remain. This is the short term protection and the long term risk for Leave.

    But for some reason Leavers aren’t beginning to think about how to win new converts.

    Even with almost no minds changed, two years of deaths, youngsters joining the electoral roll and immigrants gaining citizenship will surely have had an impact on the margin.

    In my own family my devout Brexiteer step-grandmother sadly died last year, whilst a couple of teenagers not old enough to vote in 2016 have now joined the legions of those likely to oppose Brexit at the ballot box. A story likely replicated in millions of families countrywide.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 2,631

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.
    tomorrow never comes
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 43,033
    Roses are red
    Violets are blue.
    If Corbyn wins
    There'll be no vote on the EU.
  • Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.
    tomorrow never comes
    Tomorrow belongs to me.

    You’re all assuming a new referendum on rejoining.

    A party or parties that had a manifesto commitment to take us back win a majority in Parliament could do it.

    Might happen in 2027, we’ll have been out for six years and if Brexit turns out to be an (economic) mistake, and that should be long enough for the public to make up their mind on whether Brexit was a path to the sunlit uplands or not.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,138

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time.
    Didn't the poll show that the public believe in decreasing numbers that Brexit is a mistake?
    By now Leave should be far ahead.
    I think you win the prize for today's 'straw man'.

    I'd have thought it would be Remainers in search of a second referendum that should be seriously worried....

    https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/do-you-think-there-should-be-a-second-referendum-on-whether-britain-remains-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-not/?removed
    It is normal for controversial policies to gain in popularity after being adopted.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,268
    People come up to me and say "Oh, what a lovely baby..", then they get a closer look...

    Then he wakes up and starts screaming "WAAAAH! XENEPHOBIC LIES! XENEPHOBIC LIES! WAAAAAAH!"

    And they all change the way they voted.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,695

    Totally O/t but has anyone seen this on the BBC
    'A bride and groom's bid to surprise guests by having a owl deliver their wedding rings did not go quite to plan.
    The bird was spooked by one of the seated best men pointing at it - and dived towards the individual.’
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-wales-43553909/bride-and-groom-s-owl-plans-are-a-hoot

    Which is of course what happens when you have free owls.

    A rough rule of thumb of mine is that the more elaborate and over the top the wedding the less likely the marriage is to endure. There are relationships where you feel that the people concerned are playing at being husband and wife rather than really having a solid relationship.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 2,631

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.
    tomorrow never comes
    Tomorrow belongs to me.

    You’re all assuming a new referendum on rejoining.

    A party or parties that had a manifesto commitment to take us back win a majority in Parliament could do it.

    Might happen in 2027, we’ll have been out for six years and if Brexit turns out to be an (economic) mistake, and that should be long enough for the public to make up their mind on whether Brexit was a path to the sunlit uplands or not.
    As a former player and now commentator once observed, "you cannot be serious". 2027!!!???
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,268
    Personally, I'm really disappointed that Meeks seems to have forgotten that we Leavers murdered Jo Cox and beat up a load of foreigners in order to win the referendum.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 2,631

    People come up to me and say "Oh, what a lovely baby..", then they get a closer look...

    Then he wakes up and starts screaming "WAAAAH! XENEPHOBIC LIES! XENEPHOBIC LIES! WAAAAAAH!"

    And they all change the way they voted.

    But will those ignorant bastards who voted Leave know what XENEPHOBIC means? Best to use language they would understand ....RACIST! That's the way to do it!
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 13,658
    Anazina said:

    felix said:

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    Is that why the lead has dropped 3 points?
    MOE. The overall trend is for Remain being ahead.

    Very interesting indeed.
    The overall trend is for Britain to leave the EU a year on Thursday.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 23,513

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time.
    By now Leave should be far ahead.
    I think you win the prize for today's 'straw man'.

    I'd have thought it would be Remainers in search of a second referendum that should be seriously worried....

    https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/do-you-think-there-should-be-a-second-referendum-on-whether-britain-remains-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-not/?removed
    All of the difficulties of Leave are currently apparent, and none of the benefits have yet been realised, so I'm not surprised. Some people will naturally worry.

    That said, I did underestimate how vitriolic the aftermath would be and I think some of the Government's PR from c. July 2016 to c. May 2017 was a mistake, which further soiled the bed, so that's a lesson too.

    But, there are no "certainties" about the UK for the next few decades, or GE2022, or even the next few months.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,731
    Cyclefree said:

    Totally O/t but has anyone seen this on the BBC
    'A bride and groom's bid to surprise guests by having a owl deliver their wedding rings did not go quite to plan.
    The bird was spooked by one of the seated best men pointing at it - and dived towards the individual.’
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-wales-43553909/bride-and-groom-s-owl-plans-are-a-hoot

    Which is of course what happens when you have free owls.

    A rough rule of thumb of mine is that the more elaborate and over the top the wedding the less likely the marriage is to endure. There are relationships where you feel that the people concerned are playing at being husband and wife rather than really having a solid relationship.
    At least in this case the bride was saying something about laughing so much it hurt, and how everyone was all laughing about afterwards.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,103
    Whoever would have thought that Theresa May in two short weeks would become the de facto leader of the West facing down Putin
  • . This should seriously worry thoughtful Leavers. But that appears to be an oxymoron.


    Mr Meeks. I really have to react to your constant sneering of people who are pro-Brexit as being either xenophobic or stupid. Your blind spot on this is unbelievable and for someone who I have often admired on this site for years I am staggered that you don't see that your intolerance and generalisation is no different from those you seem to despise (stupid xenophobes).

    I am pro-Brexit and I am neither a xenophobe or stupid. I lived and worked in Switzerland and France for many years and am pretty much fluent in French, I have worked my whole career with international clients and have had a great relationship with the majority spending large amounts of time with them in both a business and social capacity. I still talk every day to people of many nationalities for business and am able to adapt to the cultural differences and appreciate the similarities. I was educated with my peers of many nationalities and to this day count them as friends. I was married to a Slovak lady in my twenties, my last partner was French and my current is Portuguese. I hope that in some way this allows me to disabuse the notion of me being xenophobic by your high standards.

    I was educated at a school regarded to be one of the hardest to enter academically and went on to a University consistently ranked in the global top ten. I ran a private bank at 27 and am sought out to solve complicated problems for global individuals. I hope that this allows me to reach somewhere near your own levels of intellectual standing....

    I believe in Brexit as I feel that it will allow Britain to be more flexible and adaptable in a constantly changing global economy and geo-political world, and over time be able to agree trade agreements weighted nearer to the requirements of Britain with its different economy, resources, business practices, than where currently our position as one of many in the EU means that we are at risk of trade deals being weighted to the needs of others. I accept that this will take time but good things take time.

    I also believe that for the EU to work it needs to become a United States of Europe which is fine and I wish them well but I personally do not feel that the way Britain "works" culturally and from a business perspective fits in to the continental "way" and having worked in and with continental Europe I always found that there was a different way of looking at things compared to the Brits which will likely always be there.

    I do hope you will one day see that us brexiters are not evil xenophobes and stupid racists but, in the same way that those on the left and right simply often have equal good intentions but different paths to a solution, just truly believe from our own experience and calculations that there is a different "way".
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 6,373
    edited March 27


    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.

    tomorrow never comes
    We will either be de facto rule takers of the EU with the same obligations and most of the benefits or we will be full members participating in decision making. My guess is for the former, as ironically I don't think most Leavers actually want sovereignty. That's more a Remainer concern. To be clear this isn't a Remoaner comment,. Full membership makes sense to me.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 13,658

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.
    The public have very little to do with it. As in 1975 and 2016, it'll be tactical party considerations that matter most. And the considerations at the moment are that neither the Tory nor Labour leaderships have the slightest interest in reopening a question that's been answered, and every incentive not to do so. So it won't be.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,645
    edited March 27

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.
    tomorrow never comes
    Tomorrow belongs to me.

    You’re all assuming a new referendum on rejoining.

    A party or parties that had a manifesto commitment to take us back win a majority in Parliament could do it.

    Might happen in 2027, we’ll have been out for six years and if Brexit turns out to be an (economic) mistake, and that should be long enough for the public to make up their mind on whether Brexit was a path to the sunlit uplands or not.
    Given the Tories will almost certainly never agree to that and nor will Corbyn Labour that would require say Chuka Umunna to have replaced Corbyn as Labour leader by then and for him to then win the 2027 general election on a manifesto commitment to rejoin the EU (or more likely the EEA)
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 13,658
    Pulpstar said:

    Anazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Elliot said:

    If there is a "next time" it will not be Leave vs Remain but Rejoin or Don't rejoin after the 2025 election. And rejoin will require much higher membership fees and likely entry into Schengen and the Euro.

    A good point, the question changes after March 2019.
    A big assumption, possibly accurate, possibly not. But conjecture.
    Tipped up by Meeks on Betfair, and currently odds on. So likely.
    And still value. Should be about 1/4.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,125
    Love the map, it's great.

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Seems to me the whole sequence of polls going back to ~1979 demonstrate conclusively that, had the In/Out referendum been held at any other time than the day it was actually held, Remain would have won.

    Good evening, everybody.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,731

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.
    The public have very little to do with it. As in 1975 and 2016, it'll be tactical party considerations that matter most. And the considerations at the moment are that neither the Tory nor Labour leaderships have the slightest interest in reopening a question that's been answered, and every incentive not to do so. So it won't be.
    I think that’s probably true. At the moment, anyway. If even some of the more unpleasant ‘threats’ of the Remainers come to pass....... especially those directly impinging on the general public and, especially again, those within 25 miles of Central London then the picture will change very quickly.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 13,658

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.
    The public have very little to do with it. As in 1975 and 2016, it'll be tactical party considerations that matter most. And the considerations at the moment are that neither the Tory nor Labour leaderships have the slightest interest in reopening a question that's been answered, and every incentive not to do so. So it won't be.
    I think that’s probably true. At the moment, anyway. If even some of the more unpleasant ‘threats’ of the Remainers come to pass....... especially those directly impinging on the general public and, especially again, those within 25 miles of Central London then the picture will change very quickly.
    That's possible. But by then, the UK will be out and as others have said, the question would be Rejoin, not Remain.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 41,833
    Good afternoon, Miss JGP.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,731

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.
    The public have very little to do with it. As in 1975 and 2016, it'll be tactical party considerations that matter most. And the considerations at the moment are that neither the Tory nor Labour leaderships have the slightest interest in reopening a question that's been answered, and every incentive not to do so. So it won't be.
    I think that’s probably true. At the moment, anyway. If even some of the more unpleasant ‘threats’ of the Remainers come to pass....... especially those directly impinging on the general public and, especially again, those within 25 miles of Central London then the picture will change very quickly.
    That's possible. But by then, the UK will be out and as others have said, the question would be Rejoin, not Remain.
    Indeed. I hope I live to see it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,299

    Whoever would have thought that Theresa May in two short weeks would become the de facto leader of the West facing down Putin

    It appears the whole sorry mess has been handled very well by the government from the beginning - the main sad issue being the infection of the police officer, which may have happened before they had much of a clue what was going on.

    I'm not their greatest fan, but May and Boris have gone up on my estimation.

    Putin would have got off with no censure if Corbyn has been in charge: he'd be busy blaming our own people.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 41,833
    Mr. Jessop, indeed. I'm surprised by the scale of the diplomatic response, and it's good that Corbyn's willingness to trust the Russian authorities over the British authorities has now, to some degree at least, been seen by the public.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 2,631

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.
    The public have very little to do with it. As in 1975 and 2016, it'll be tactical party considerations that matter most. And the considerations at the moment are that neither the Tory nor Labour leaderships have the slightest interest in reopening a question that's been answered, and every incentive not to do so. So it won't be.
    I think that's spot on but then I'm for Leave.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 13,103

    Whoever would have thought that Theresa May in two short weeks would become the de facto leader of the West facing down Putin

    It appears the whole sorry mess has been handled very well by the government from the beginning - the main sad issue being the infection of the police officer, which may have happened before they had much of a clue what was going on.

    I'm not their greatest fan, but May and Boris have gone up on my estimation.

    Putin would have got off with no censure if Corbyn has been in charge: he'd be busy blaming our own people.
    And at a time Corbyn is mired in anti Semitic accusations, has his MP's openly attacking him, and an actual demonstration on the streets of London condemning him
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,429
    Elliot said:

    If there is a "next time" it will not be Leave vs Remain but Rejoin or Don't rejoin after the 2025 election. And rejoin will require much higher membership fees and likely entry into Schengen and the Euro.

    A point I have been making for a long time. The question of Rejoiners will be “so which hospitals are you going to close to pay to Rejoin? What taxes are you going to put up? How many billions will changing to the Euro cost?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,138


    I am pro-Brexit and I am neither a xenophobe or stupid. I lived and worked in Switzerland and France for many years and am pretty much fluent in French, I have worked my whole career with international clients and have had a great relationship with the majority spending large amounts of time with them in both a business and social capacity. I still talk every day to people of many nationalities for business and am able to adapt to the cultural differences and appreciate the similarities. I was educated with my peers of many nationalities and to this day count them as friends. I was married to a Slovak lady in my twenties, my last partner was French and my current is Portuguese. I hope that in some way this allows me to disabuse the notion of me being xenophobic by your high standards.

    I was educated at a school regarded to be one of the hardest to enter academically and went on to a University consistently ranked in the global top ten. I ran a private bank at 27 and am sought out to solve complicated problems for global individuals. I hope that this allows me to reach somewhere near your own levels of intellectual standing....

    I believe in Brexit as I feel that it will allow Britain to be more flexible and adaptable in a constantly changing global economy and geo-political world, and over time be able to agree trade agreements weighted nearer to the requirements of Britain with its different economy, resources, business practices, than where currently our position as one of many in the EU means that we are at risk of trade deals being weighted to the needs of others. I accept that this will take time but good things take time.

    I also believe that for the EU to work it needs to become a United States of Europe which is fine and I wish them well but I personally do not feel that the way Britain "works" culturally and from a business perspective fits in to the continental "way" and having worked in and with continental Europe I always found that there was a different way of looking at things compared to the Brits which will likely always be there.

    I do hope you will one day see that us brexiters are not evil xenophobes and stupid racists but, in the same way that those on the left and right simply often have equal good intentions but different paths to a solution, just truly believe from our own experience and calculations that there is a different "way".

    I see today that 18 months ago you voted for a xenophobic campaign. You have enabled the contamination of British politics in order to pursue a matter of second order importance. Britain will not develop in a positive direction until Leavers confront their own choice and stop hiding behind what they claim to have wanted. What they claim to have wanted was not on offer.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 10,714

    Whoever would have thought that Theresa May in two short weeks would become the de facto leader of the West facing down Putin

    Funny old world isn't it? :D
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,138

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.
    The public have very little to do with it. As in 1975 and 2016, it'll be tactical party considerations that matter most. And the considerations at the moment are that neither the Tory nor Labour leaderships have the slightest interest in reopening a question that's been answered, and every incentive not to do so. So it won't be.
    If the public decisively turn against Brexit it will soon become in someone's interest to hold a referendum.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,429


    I am pro-Brexit and I am neither a xenophobe or stupid. I lived and worked in Switzerland and France for many years and am pretty much fluent in French, I have worked my whole career with international clients and have had a great relationship with the majority spending large amounts of time with them in both a business and social capacity. I still talk every day to people of many nationalities for business and am able to adapt to the cultural differences and appreciate the similarities. I was educated with my peers of many nationalities and to this day count them as friends. I was married to a Slovak lady in my twenties, my last partner was French and my current is Portuguese. I hope that in some way this allows me to disabuse the notion of me being xenophobic by your high standards.

    I was educated at a school regarded to be one of the hardest to enter academically and went on to a University consistently ranked in the global top ten. I ran a private bank at 27 and am sought out to solve complicated problems for global individuals. I hope that this allows me to reach somewhere near your own levels of intellectual standing....

    I believe in Brexit as I feel that it will allow Britain to be more flexible and adaptable in a constantly changing global economy and geo-political world, and over time be able to agree trade agreements weighted nearer to the requirements of Britain with its different economy, resources, business practices, than where currently our position as one of many in the EU means that we are at risk of trade deals being weighted to the needs of others. I accept that this will take time but good things take time.

    I also believe that for the EU to work it needs to become a United States of Europe which is fine and I wish them well but I personally do not feel that the way Britain "works" culturally and from a business perspective fits in to the continental "way" and having worked in and with continental Europe I always found that there was a different way of looking at things compared to the Brits which will likely always be there.

    I do hope you will one day see that us brexiters are not evil xenophobes and stupid racists but, in the same way that those on the left and right simply often have equal good intentions but different paths to a solution, just truly believe from our own experience and calculations that there is a different "way".

    I see today that 18 months ago you voted for a xenophobic campaign. You have enabled the contamination of British politics in order to pursue a matter of second order importance. Britain will not develop in a positive direction until Leavers confront their own choice and stop hiding behind what they claim to have wanted. What they claim to have wanted was not on offer.
    You are quite deranged by Brexit.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 10,714

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Remain was further ahead (10%) than that with Populas... On 23rd June 2016! ;)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,357
    Cyclefree said:

    Totally O/t but has anyone seen this on the BBC
    'A bride and groom's bid to surprise guests by having a owl deliver their wedding rings did not go quite to plan.
    The bird was spooked by one of the seated best men pointing at it - and dived towards the individual.’
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-wales-43553909/bride-and-groom-s-owl-plans-are-a-hoot

    Which is of course what happens when you have free owls.

    A rough rule of thumb of mine is that the more elaborate and over the top the wedding the less likely the marriage is to endure. There are relationships where you feel that the people concerned are playing at being husband and wife rather than really having a solid relationship.
    Quite. Those who think the wedding is more important than the marriage are those who end up divorced not long afterwards.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 2,775

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is that in any second referendum a chunk of the soft eurosceptic Remainers would peel off to endorse the original decision. The irreconcilables would vote Remain so hard that their pencils made a hole in the ballot paper, but they'd probably lose by a bigger margin than before, not least because their antics would turn people off.
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.
    The public have very little to do with it. As in 1975 and 2016, it'll be tactical party considerations that matter most. And the considerations at the moment are that neither the Tory nor Labour leaderships have the slightest interest in reopening a question that's been answered, and every incentive not to do so. So it won't be.
    If the public decisively turn against Brexit it will soon become in someone's interest to hold a referendum.
    No static position was on offer A choice of starting points to move from were on offer.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,413
    GIN1138 said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Remain was further ahead (10%) than that with Populas... On 23rd June 2016! ;)
    So what.
  • Torby_FennelTorby_Fennel Posts: 187
    edited March 27



    I see today that 18 months ago you voted for a xenophobic campaign. You have enabled the contamination of British politics in order to pursue a matter of second order importance. Britain will not develop in a positive direction until Leavers confront their own choice and stop hiding behind what they claim to have wanted. What they claim to have wanted was not on offer.

    Please stop this... it's getting a bit embarrassing to read now. :( I bow to nobody in my horror and disappointment at the referendum result but the truth is that both campaigns were terrible. The vast majority of people who voted on both sides were not and are not bad people. If they were then all of us would have to condemn and insult members of our own families and circle of friends in order to be consistent. I see no malice in my loved ones who voted against what I believe to be the national interest and therefore no reason to assume bad intentions in people I don't know either.



  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 27,669
    RT live feed of Mrs May with the Liaison Ctte:

  • notmenotme Posts: 2,371

    Whoever would have thought that Theresa May in two short weeks would become the de facto leader of the West facing down Putin

    It appears the whole sorry mess has been handled very well by the government from the beginning - the main sad issue being the infection of the police officer, which may have happened before they had much of a clue what was going on.

    I'm not their greatest fan, but May and Boris have gone up on my estimation.

    Putin would have got off with no censure if Corbyn has been in charge: he'd be busy blaming our own people.
    And at a time Corbyn is mired in anti Semitic accusations, has his MP's openly attacking him, and an actual demonstration on the streets of London condemning him
    It's been the Government and May's best couple of weeks since the release of the Tory Mainfesto. Its not only been good for her its been utterly awful for Labour and Corbyn. It has that familiar feeling of Corbyn lurching from crisis to crisis as a party leader in the way he did before he defied all expectations to lose the last General Election a lot better than expected.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 12,470



    I see today that 18 months ago you voted for a xenophobic campaign. You have enabled the contamination of British politics in order to pursue a matter of second order importance. Britain will not develop in a positive direction until Leavers confront their own choice and stop hiding behind what they claim to have wanted. What they claim to have wanted was not on offer.

    Please stop this... it's getting a bit embarrassing to read now. :( I bow to nobody in my horror and disappointment at the referendum result but the truth is that both campaigns were terrible. The vast majority of people who voted on both sides were not and are not bad people. If they were then all of us would have to condemn and insult members of our own families and circle of friends in order to be consistent. I see no malice in my loved ones who voted against what I believe to be the national interest and therefore no reason to assume bad intentions in people I don't know either.

    Those who voted for a Leave campaign which included those posters implicitly agreed with, and contributed to the direction of the country towards a more xenophobic attitude. They said: yes, this is fine, this is the kind of country I want to be in. They endorsed that xenophobic, hateful campaign and they were prepared to do this because they had some nebulous idea of sovereignty (which we always were, btw).

    That I imagine is why Alastair won't let it go, and quite right that he shouldn't, IMO.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 14,400
    GIN1138 said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Remain was further ahead (10%) than that with Populas... On 23rd June 2016! ;)
    But you do need to compare like with like.

    The last BMG online poll 8 days before the referendum had a 10% lead for Leave. That is really the only valid comparison with pre referendum polls that can be made with this one.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 41,833
    Mr. Topping, ironic to see you making comments of xenophobia after your comments on the Jews the other day.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,268
    TOPPING said:



    I see today that 18 months ago you voted for a xenophobic campaign. You have enabled the contamination of British politics in order to pursue a matter of second order importance. Britain will not develop in a positive direction until Leavers confront their own choice and stop hiding behind what they claim to have wanted. What they claim to have wanted was not on offer.

    Please stop this... it's getting a bit embarrassing to read now. :( I bow to nobody in my horror and disappointment at the referendum result but the truth is that both campaigns were terrible. The vast majority of people who voted on both sides were not and are not bad people. If they were then all of us would have to condemn and insult members of our own families and circle of friends in order to be consistent. I see no malice in my loved ones who voted against what I believe to be the national interest and therefore no reason to assume bad intentions in people I don't know either.

    Those who voted for a Leave campaign which included those posters implicitly agreed with, and contributed to the direction of the country towards a more xenophobic attitude. They said: yes, this is fine, this is the kind of country I want to be in. They endorsed that xenophobic, hateful campaign and they were prepared to do this because they had some nebulous idea of sovereignty (which we always were, btw).

    That I imagine is why Alastair won't let it go, and quite right that he shouldn't, IMO.
    You can cover his comfort breaks when, decades from now, he's still ranting about xenophobia from a plinth at Speakers' Corner
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,125
    TOPPING said:



    I see today that 18 months ago you voted for a xenophobic campaign. You have enabled the contamination of British politics in order to pursue a matter of second order importance. Britain will not develop in a positive direction until Leavers confront their own choice and stop hiding behind what they claim to have wanted. What they claim to have wanted was not on offer.

    Please stop this... it's getting a bit embarrassing to read now. :( I bow to nobody in my horror and disappointment at the referendum result but the truth is that both campaigns were terrible. The vast majority of people who voted on both sides were not and are not bad people. If they were then all of us would have to condemn and insult members of our own families and circle of friends in order to be consistent. I see no malice in my loved ones who voted against what I believe to be the national interest and therefore no reason to assume bad intentions in people I don't know either.

    Those who voted for a Leave campaign which included those posters implicitly agreed with, and contributed to the direction of the country towards a more xenophobic attitude. They said: yes, this is fine, this is the kind of country I want to be in. They endorsed that xenophobic, hateful campaign and they were prepared to do this because they had some nebulous idea of sovereignty (which we always were, btw).

    That I imagine is why Alastair won't let it go, and quite right that he shouldn't, IMO.
    Nobody voted for a campaign. It wasn't a BGT show.

    It was a decision on whether or not to Remain In or Leave the EU. That was what was on the ballot paper, and that's what people voted on.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 14,400
    TOPPING said:



    I see today that 18 months ago you voted for a xenophobic campaign. You have enabled the contamination of British politics in order to pursue a matter of second order importance. Britain will not develop in a positive direction until Leavers confront their own choice and stop hiding behind what they claim to have wanted. What they claim to have wanted was not on offer.

    Please stop this... it's getting a bit embarrassing to read now. :( I bow to nobody in my horror and disappointment at the referendum result but the truth is that both campaigns were terrible. The vast majority of people who voted on both sides were not and are not bad people. If they were then all of us would have to condemn and insult members of our own families and circle of friends in order to be consistent. I see no malice in my loved ones who voted against what I believe to be the national interest and therefore no reason to assume bad intentions in people I don't know either.

    Those who voted for a Leave campaign which included those posters implicitly agreed with, and contributed to the direction of the country towards a more xenophobic attitude. They said: yes, this is fine, this is the kind of country I want to be in. They endorsed that xenophobic, hateful campaign and they were prepared to do this because they had some nebulous idea of sovereignty (which we always were, btw).

    That I imagine is why Alastair won't let it go, and quite right that he shouldn't, IMO.
    Those who voted for a Remain campaign that included people who believed we should join a Federalist EU and adopt the Euro implicitly agreed with the federalist, pro Euro agenda.

    That at least is the logical conclusion of your claims.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 1,758

    Anazina said:

    Meanwhile, another poll shows Remain well ahead of Leave:

    Yes, people have come to the conclusion that Brexit just isn't worth it.
    The topline numbers are 53% Remain and 47% Leave, but once again nearly all that change comes from people who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum.

    You might want to hang your hat on non-voters, but it's a very confident strategist who thinks they'll be decisive given they didn't vote in the biggest vote of all time 2 years ago. At the very best it's a gamble everyone, now, feels the same way you do.

    Also, that same poll shows the public think we'll be more prosperous in the long-term, with only a short-term hit, from Brexit. And there's another poll this week showing that people think that Brexit should go ahead by 57%/22%, so how the campaign was framed would be very influential over the final result.

    My view is .
    You seem to think your own side’s antics are going to be more wholesome than last time. That seems optimistic.
    The optimism is in this charming delusion that there will be a 'next time'
    If the public believe in increasing numbers that Brexit was a mistake there will be a next time. Right now Leavers are doing their best to ensure that.
    The public have very little to do with it. As in 1975 and 2016, it'll be tactical party considerations that matter most. And the considerations at the moment are that neither the Tory nor Labour leaderships have the slightest interest in reopening a question that's been answered, and every incentive not to do so. So it won't be.
    Well, it won't be, until the leaderships change, and that is likely in the next five years. It wouldn't take much for Labour to go that direction, for the Tories it may take a little more. If the UK turns away from free trade, towards tariffs and economic protectionism, the liberal wing of the Conservatives may start to fancy that the grass is greener on the other side.

    I think that the country will be bored of Brexit by the next election, but will increasingly be aware of what they have lost, with the ashes of sovereignty tasting pretty poorly in their mouths. It will start to become an issue again by the late 2020's. Both the UK and the EU will look different by then. The Conservatives may well be the party that takes us back in, returning to its postwar position of pro-Europeanism.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,268
    How about if all the Leavers just claim we never saw either of the posters?

    Why didn't Remainers just retweet them a few more times, then we might have noticed how racist they were..
This discussion has been closed.