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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Despite 34% voters thinking Jeremy Corbyn personally has anti-

SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited April 8 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Despite 34% voters thinking Jeremy Corbyn personally has anti-Semitic views Boris Johnson’s approval ratings are near identical to Corbyn

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  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,788
    edited April 8
    First?

    And I don’t think JC is anti-semitic, though he may well be critical of Israel.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,307

    (FPT) I prefer Capitalism to Socialism, but stories of greed like this sicken me:

    The mother-of-two planned to buy the freehold, priced at £5,000, as soon as she had the money. But a year later the property developer sold it to an offshore investment company which repriced it at £50,000.

    https://news.sky.com/story/rip-off-leasehold-reforms-dont-go-far-enough-say-campaigners-11322160

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 29,695
    edited April 8
    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Since the plan, such as it exists, seems to not directly try for sitting MP defections, and if the leader of a new group were to be ex-tory or ex-labour it would immediately be seen as being just for that group, a complete political unknown might even be a better option to Front things, famous and charismatic but not obviously one or the other. God knows who fits the bill.
    .

    Eddie Izzard?
    'Not one or the other' . I think it is pretty clear Mr Izzard is a Labour man, even if only us anoraks knew prior to a week or so ago.
    TBH, I suspect that only us anoraks know today!
    Probably, but it at least got a mention in the mainstream news, briefly, when he got on to the NEC.

    >

    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Can we all agree that the cliche "useful idiot" has been fucked to death? Nobody should use it until they have read and fully parsed Volkogonov's "Lenin:A New Biography" in order to properly understand its context.

    Words and phrases take on their own popular meaning, which can be completely at odds with its original purpose.
    Quite so. I think its generally used form now is understood.
    Absolutely.
    It's very easily understood as a phrase righties throw out when they want to associate lefties with Marxist Leninism and the excesses of the Soviet Union (which by some miracle of transmutation are still defining qualities of Putin's Russia).
    On the contrary - I think it can be used generically to refer to people who through their actions, and idiocy, aid people hostile to their own interests.

    I'm very much in favour of de-partisan-ing insults. It's why I think snowflake applies to both right and left. Ans useful idiot is a useful enough phrase to be restricted solely to one side of the spectrum or ties to marxism.

    Which is not to say people don't use it in the manner you describe, but getting one's panties in a twist about it seems like an overreaction. Nor does some people overusing it mean it can never apply to anyone.

    Politics evolves, political language evolves as well, you don't have to be stuck in a 1980s mindset and assume everyone else is, even if some clearly are.

    Edit - and you are right, Boris's example clearly was in that context. But I think we can co-opt it to wider use.

    Some might say Boris is in some ways a useful idiot.

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,247
    FPT

    Turnout in Hungary at 42%, about 8pp higher than four years ago (which would place total turnout at approx. 70%). However EuropeElects is forecasting 72-76%, which is higher still. Don't know if they have aother reason for believing that.

    The Betfair over/under line is 67.5%; I would stay close to evens myself. (It's currently 1.3 on "over". It was 1.12 on "under" earlier in the week!)

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,247


    (FPT) I prefer Capitalism to Socialism, but stories of greed like this sicken me:

    The mother-of-two planned to buy the freehold, priced at £5,000, as soon as she had the money. But a year later the property developer sold it to an offshore investment company which repriced it at £50,000.

    https://news.sky.com/story/rip-off-leasehold-reforms-dont-go-far-enough-say-campaigners-11322160

    There's a statutory formula which provides an effective cap on the amount being charged.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,788


    (FPT) I prefer Capitalism to Socialism, but stories of greed like this sicken me:

    The mother-of-two planned to buy the freehold, priced at £5,000, as soon as she had the money. But a year later the property developer sold it to an offshore investment company which repriced it at £50,000.

    https://news.sky.com/story/rip-off-leasehold-reforms-dont-go-far-enough-say-campaigners-11322160

    I thought there’d been a clean up of leasehoilding after problems emerrged in industrial South Wales forty or so years ago.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,247


    (FPT) I prefer Capitalism to Socialism, but stories of greed like this sicken me:

    The mother-of-two planned to buy the freehold, priced at £5,000, as soon as she had the money. But a year later the property developer sold it to an offshore investment company which repriced it at £50,000.

    https://news.sky.com/story/rip-off-leasehold-reforms-dont-go-far-enough-say-campaigners-11322160

    I thought there’d been a clean up of leasehoilding after problems emerrged in industrial South Wales forty or so years ago.
    Housebuilders came up with another disgraceful scheme to trap the unwary.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,307


    (FPT) I prefer Capitalism to Socialism, but stories of greed like this sicken me:

    The mother-of-two planned to buy the freehold, priced at £5,000, as soon as she had the money. But a year later the property developer sold it to an offshore investment company which repriced it at £50,000.

    https://news.sky.com/story/rip-off-leasehold-reforms-dont-go-far-enough-say-campaigners-11322160

    There's a statutory formula which provides an effective cap on the amount being charged.


    These are individual homes, not blocks of flats. (They should never have been leasehold in the first place.)

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 20,754
    One thing we've learned in recent years is that unpopular candidates can win, if people think the alternative is worse. There are people who so dislike the Conservatives for austerity, or Brexit, that they'd vote for Nick Griffin if he was the only alternative. Right now, Corbyn is the only alternative for such voters.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 1,420
    kle4 said:



    Some might say Boris is in some ways a useful idiot.

    Well, you're half right.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,247


    (FPT) I prefer Capitalism to Socialism, but stories of greed like this sicken me:

    The mother-of-two planned to buy the freehold, priced at £5,000, as soon as she had the money. But a year later the property developer sold it to an offshore investment company which repriced it at £50,000.

    https://news.sky.com/story/rip-off-leasehold-reforms-dont-go-far-enough-say-campaigners-11322160

    There's a statutory formula which provides an effective cap on the amount being charged.


    These are individual homes, not blocks of flats. (They should never have been leasehold in the first place.)

    You still have a right (outside the collective enfranchment model associated with blocks of flats) to buy the freehold for its market value. It may well be the second, higher figure, is closer to the market value, but it may not be.

    I agree that we should not be in this position, however.

    In the vast majority of cases, the leasehold was entirely unnecessary; in any event, the idea of a ground rent doubling every ten years was not appropriate. It was disproportionate to the costs (if any) it was designed to cover.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 10,769
    FPT

    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    Since the plan, such as it exists, seems to not directly try for sitting MP defections, and if the leader of a new group were to be ex-tory or ex-labour it would immediately be seen as being just for that group, a complete political unknown might even be a better option to Front things, famous and charismatic but not obviously one or the other. God knows who fits the bill.
    .

    Alan Sugar.
    On the basis of this tweet Sugar seems barely Trump-level literate.




    His Lordship appears to be channeling his inner Donald there! :D
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 1,676


    (FPT) I prefer Capitalism to Socialism, but stories of greed like this sicken me:

    The mother-of-two planned to buy the freehold, priced at £5,000, as soon as she had the money. But a year later the property developer sold it to an offshore investment company which repriced it at £50,000.

    https://news.sky.com/story/rip-off-leasehold-reforms-dont-go-far-enough-say-campaigners-11322160

    There's a statutory formula which provides an effective cap on the amount being charged.

    True, but there's still the problem (as I suspect the actual situation was in this case) of developers massively underestimating what the formula will calculate when people considering new builds ask. The value was probably always up to £50k, but the developer may well have said it was around £5k during the house sale.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 10,769
    Therea's doing OK.

    Poor old Dr Vince! :D
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 1,754
    Sean_F said:

    One thing we've learned in recent years is that unpopular candidates can win, if people think the alternative is worse. There are people who so dislike the Conservatives for austerity, or Brexit, that they'd vote for Nick Griffin if he was the only alternative. Right now, Corbyn is the only alternative for such voters.

    I am sure I am in a minority but I doubt I am totally unique. I am currently in punish the Tories for Brexit mode, and will vote for whoever I perceive is most likely to get them out of office. I identified the Lib Dems as the best stick in my particular constituency, where they were in second place. I switched to Labour when opinion polls showed them doing well.

    I don't know how long this mood will last but it feels pretty much like it will be with me for the next few years.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 20,754


    (FPT) I prefer Capitalism to Socialism, but stories of greed like this sicken me:

    The mother-of-two planned to buy the freehold, priced at £5,000, as soon as she had the money. But a year later the property developer sold it to an offshore investment company which repriced it at £50,000.

    https://news.sky.com/story/rip-off-leasehold-reforms-dont-go-far-enough-say-campaigners-11322160

    I thought there’d been a clean up of leasehoilding after problems emerrged in industrial South Wales forty or so years ago.
    Housebuilders came up with another disgraceful scheme to trap the unwary.
    It's shitty behaviour. Typically, ground rents are doubled over 25 years, rather than 10.

    Re Yougov I see May now leads 39/26 as best PM, and her rating is 41% to 31% for Corbyn.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 10,769
    edited April 8
    When's Dr Cable going to hand over the Lib-Dem leadership to Jo Swinson?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 20,754

    Sean_F said:

    One thing we've learned in recent years is that unpopular candidates can win, if people think the alternative is worse. There are people who so dislike the Conservatives for austerity, or Brexit, that they'd vote for Nick Griffin if he was the only alternative. Right now, Corbyn is the only alternative for such voters.

    I am sure I am in a minority but I doubt I am totally unique. I am currently in punish the Tories for Brexit mode, and will vote for whoever I perceive is most likely to get them out of office. I identified the Lib Dems as the best stick in my particular constituency, where they were in second place. I switched to Labour when opinion polls showed them doing well.

    I don't know how long this mood will last but it feels pretty much like it will be with me for the next few years.

    Very much a minority, but not a trivial one.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,247
    Sean_F said:


    (FPT) I prefer Capitalism to Socialism, but stories of greed like this sicken me:

    The mother-of-two planned to buy the freehold, priced at £5,000, as soon as she had the money. But a year later the property developer sold it to an offshore investment company which repriced it at £50,000.

    https://news.sky.com/story/rip-off-leasehold-reforms-dont-go-far-enough-say-campaigners-11322160

    I thought there’d been a clean up of leasehoilding after problems emerrged in industrial South Wales forty or so years ago.
    Housebuilders came up with another disgraceful scheme to trap the unwary.
    It's shitty behaviour. Typically, ground rents are doubled over 25 years, rather than 10.

    Re Yougov I see May now leads 39/26 as best PM, and her rating is 41% to 31% for Corbyn.
    That would have been about 3% per annum - in line with inflation - rather than 8%.

    That being said there really is no reason for them to go up at all save for the invention of the secure long-term income funding stream.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 10,769
    edited April 8

    Sean_F said:

    One thing we've learned in recent years is that unpopular candidates can win, if people think the alternative is worse. There are people who so dislike the Conservatives for austerity, or Brexit, that they'd vote for Nick Griffin if he was the only alternative. Right now, Corbyn is the only alternative for such voters.

    I am sure I am in a minority but I doubt I am totally unique. I am currently in punish the Tories for Brexit mode, and will vote for whoever I perceive is most likely to get them out of office. I identified the Lib Dems as the best stick in my particular constituency, where they were in second place. I switched to Labour when opinion polls showed them doing well.

    I doubt your alone... But keep in mind Brexit would never have happened without Jezza's failure (success? ;) ) to get Lab voters in Wales, the Midlands and the north to turn out for REMAIN!
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 1,676

    Sean_F said:


    (FPT) I prefer Capitalism to Socialism, but stories of greed like this sicken me:

    The mother-of-two planned to buy the freehold, priced at £5,000, as soon as she had the money. But a year later the property developer sold it to an offshore investment company which repriced it at £50,000.

    https://news.sky.com/story/rip-off-leasehold-reforms-dont-go-far-enough-say-campaigners-11322160

    I thought there’d been a clean up of leasehoilding after problems emerrged in industrial South Wales forty or so years ago.
    Housebuilders came up with another disgraceful scheme to trap the unwary.
    It's shitty behaviour. Typically, ground rents are doubled over 25 years, rather than 10.

    Re Yougov I see May now leads 39/26 as best PM, and her rating is 41% to 31% for Corbyn.
    That would have been about 3% per annum - in line with inflation - rather than 8%.

    That being said there really is no reason for them to go up at all save for the invention of the secure long-term income funding stream.
    Given long leases have separate service charges and managing agent fees - there's no reason for the ground rent to exist at all above a nominal sum for legalities. And for a long time it was thus. Alas, someone somewhere realised more money could be gained, and all it would do was screw over large numbers of people over a long period of time.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 150
    GIN1138 said:

    When's Dr Cable going to hand over the Lib-Dem leadership to Jo Swinson?

    The assumptions been when Jo's back from maternity leave so probably some time in 2019.

  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 1,754
    edited April 8
    GIN1138 said:

    Sean_F said:

    One thing we've learned in recent years is that unpopular candidates can win, if people think the alternative is worse. There are people who so dislike the Conservatives for austerity, or Brexit, that they'd vote for Nick Griffin if he was the only alternative. Right now, Corbyn is the only alternative for such voters.

    I am sure I am in a minority but I doubt I am totally unique. I am currently in punish the Tories for Brexit mode, and will vote for whoever I perceive is most likely to get them out of office. I identified the Lib Dems as the best stick in my particular constituency, where they were in second place. I switched to Labour when opinion polls showed them doing well.

    I doubt your alone... But keep in mind Brexit would never have happened without Jezza's failure (success? ;) ) to get Lab voters in Wales, the Midlands and the north to turn out for REMAIN!
    I am sure you are right but it is the Conservatives I blame and it's them I want to kick.

    (I don't have to be logical.)
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 1,420

    Sean_F said:

    One thing we've learned in recent years is that unpopular candidates can win, if people think the alternative is worse. There are people who so dislike the Conservatives for austerity, or Brexit, that they'd vote for Nick Griffin if he was the only alternative. Right now, Corbyn is the only alternative for such voters.

    I am sure I am in a minority but I doubt I am totally unique. I am currently in punish the Tories for Brexit mode, and will vote for whoever I perceive is most likely to get them out of office. I identified the Lib Dems as the best stick in my particular constituency, where they were in second place. I switched to Labour when opinion polls showed them doing well.

    I don't know how long this mood will last but it feels pretty much like it will be with me for the next few years.

    Moi aussi. I’ll vote Labour to give the Tories a Brexit punishment beating. We are not the only ones.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 20,754
    Quincel said:

    Sean_F said:


    (FPT) I prefer Capitalism to Socialism, but stories of greed like this sicken me:

    The mother-of-two planned to buy the freehold, priced at £5,000, as soon as she had the money. But a year later the property developer sold it to an offshore investment company which repriced it at £50,000.

    https://news.sky.com/story/rip-off-leasehold-reforms-dont-go-far-enough-say-campaigners-11322160

    I thought there’d been a clean up of leasehoilding after problems emerrged in industrial South Wales forty or so years ago.
    Housebuilders came up with another disgraceful scheme to trap the unwary.
    It's shitty behaviour. Typically, ground rents are doubled over 25 years, rather than 10.

    Re Yougov I see May now leads 39/26 as best PM, and her rating is 41% to 31% for Corbyn.
    That would have been about 3% per annum - in line with inflation - rather than 8%.

    That being said there really is no reason for them to go up at all save for the invention of the secure long-term income funding stream.
    Given long leases have separate service charges and managing agent fees - there's no reason for the ground rent to exist at all above a nominal sum for legalities. And for a long time it was thus. Alas, someone somewhere realised more money could be gained, and all it would do was screw over large numbers of people over a long period of time.
    TBH, there's no reason for a ground rent to be anything other than £1. I wouldn't object if the government stipulated that for all new leases, and gave tenants the right to buy out existing ground rents for say, 10 times the annual value.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,247
    Sean_F said:

    Quincel said:

    Sean_F said:


    (FPT) I prefer Capitalism to Socialism, but stories of greed like this sicken me:

    The mother-of-two planned to buy the freehold, priced at £5,000, as soon as she had the money. But a year later the property developer sold it to an offshore investment company which repriced it at £50,000.

    https://news.sky.com/story/rip-off-leasehold-reforms-dont-go-far-enough-say-campaigners-11322160

    I thought there’d been a clean up of leasehoilding after problems emerrged in industrial South Wales forty or so years ago.
    Housebuilders came up with another disgraceful scheme to trap the unwary.
    It's shitty behaviour. Typically, ground rents are doubled over 25 years, rather than 10.

    Re Yougov I see May now leads 39/26 as best PM, and her rating is 41% to 31% for Corbyn.
    That would have been about 3% per annum - in line with inflation - rather than 8%.

    That being said there really is no reason for them to go up at all save for the invention of the secure long-term income funding stream.
    Given long leases have separate service charges and managing agent fees - there's no reason for the ground rent to exist at all above a nominal sum for legalities. And for a long time it was thus. Alas, someone somewhere realised more money could be gained, and all it would do was screw over large numbers of people over a long period of time.
    TBH, there's no reason for a ground rent to be anything other than £1. I wouldn't object if the government stipulated that for all new leases, and gave tenants the right to buy out existing ground rents for say, 10 times the annual value.
    If you asked homeowners if they would like £10,000 now, for £100pa doubling every ten years for 250 years, I think the FCA would be on to you very quickly.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 10,769
    DM_Andy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    When's Dr Cable going to hand over the Lib-Dem leadership to Jo Swinson?

    The assumptions been when Jo's back from maternity leave so probably some time in 2019.

    Interesting. I think Lib-Dems will do better with Jo leading them. They need a fresh face.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,247
    Look slike a last minute poll in Hungary:

    Fidesz 44%, Jobbik 21% MSZP 14% giving Orban 142 of 199 seats and a supermajority.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,423
    GIN1138 said:

    DM_Andy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    When's Dr Cable going to hand over the Lib-Dem leadership to Jo Swinson?

    The assumptions been when Jo's back from maternity leave so probably some time in 2019.

    Interesting. I think Lib-Dems will do better with Jo leading them. They need a fresh face.
    They need fresh ideas as well as the fresh face. Their only policy now seems to be opposing Brexit, and that will be redundant a year from now.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 901
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sean_F said:

    One thing we've learned in recent years is that unpopular candidates can win, if people think the alternative is worse. There are people who so dislike the Conservatives for austerity, or Brexit, that they'd vote for Nick Griffin if he was the only alternative. Right now, Corbyn is the only alternative for such voters.

    I am sure I am in a minority but I doubt I am totally unique. I am currently in punish the Tories for Brexit mode, and will vote for whoever I perceive is most likely to get them out of office. I identified the Lib Dems as the best stick in my particular constituency, where they were in second place. I switched to Labour when opinion polls showed them doing well.

    I don't know how long this mood will last but it feels pretty much like it will be with me for the next few years.

    Moi aussi. I’ll vote Labour to give the Tories a Brexit punishment beating. We are not the only ones.
    Interesting. So you're going to punish the Tories for implementing the results of a decision that was delegated to the electorate, by voting for a party that promised to implement said decision in its last manifesto, led by a known eurosceptic? Well it's an opinion.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,340
    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    DM_Andy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    When's Dr Cable going to hand over the Lib-Dem leadership to Jo Swinson?

    The assumptions been when Jo's back from maternity leave so probably some time in 2019.

    Interesting. I think Lib-Dems will do better with Jo leading them. They need a fresh face.
    They need fresh ideas as well as the fresh face. Their only policy now seems to be opposing Brexit, and that will be redundant a year from now.
    But to be fair, the government doesn't seem to have any policies aside from 'Brexit means Brexit'. Which is why the Russian attack has proven so useful to them: not only have they handled it well, but it gives another dimension to the government.

    If I was to launch a new party (if I did, it probably wouldn't even get my vote), I'd ignore Brexit as much as possible and develop a platform of policies for a post-Brexit country.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 20,754
    O/T, I felt great sympathy for Sarah Montague, writing in the Sunday Times, who is "incandescent with rage" at being paid £133,000 by the BBC.

    It must be a constant struggle to get by on such an income.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,247
    Sean_F said:

    O/T, I felt great sympathy for Sarah Montague, writing in the Sunday Times, who is "incandescent with rage" at being paid £133,000 by the BBC.

    It must be a constant struggle to get by on such an income.

    Sean, I know many of my colleagues, on pay packets between £70,000 and £130,000 say the same.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 1,754
    kyf_100 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sean_F said:

    One thing we've learned in recent years is that unpopular candidates can win, if people think the alternative is worse. There are people who so dislike the Conservatives for austerity, or Brexit, that they'd vote for Nick Griffin if he was the only alternative. Right now, Corbyn is the only alternative for such voters.

    I am sure I am in a minority but I doubt I am totally unique. I am currently in punish the Tories for Brexit mode, and will vote for whoever I perceive is most likely to get them out of office. I identified the Lib Dems as the best stick in my particular constituency, where they were in second place. I switched to Labour when opinion polls showed them doing well.

    I don't know how long this mood will last but it feels pretty much like it will be with me for the next few years.

    Moi aussi. I’ll vote Labour to give the Tories a Brexit punishment beating. We are not the only ones.
    Interesting. So you're going to punish the Tories for implementing the results of a decision that was delegated to the electorate, by voting for a party that promised to implement said decision in its last manifesto, led by a known eurosceptic? Well it's an opinion.
    The referendum result can't be undone. If I somehow became prime minister tomorrow I'd have to implement that decision too. I blame the Tories for getting us in this situation in the first place.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 10,769
    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    DM_Andy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    When's Dr Cable going to hand over the Lib-Dem leadership to Jo Swinson?

    The assumptions been when Jo's back from maternity leave so probably some time in 2019.

    Interesting. I think Lib-Dems will do better with Jo leading them. They need a fresh face.
    They need fresh ideas as well as the fresh face. Their only policy now seems to be opposing Brexit, and that will be redundant a year from now.
    Presumably they'll campaign to rejoin?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469
    Sean_F said:

    O/T, I felt great sympathy for Sarah Montague, writing in the Sunday Times, who is "incandescent with rage" at being paid £133,000 by the BBC.

    It must be a constant struggle to get by on such an income.

    If she's not happy, I'll cheerfully swap with her.

    I'm sure I could find a way to struggle by on that even after Hammond has stolen taxed a large chunk of it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,423

    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    DM_Andy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    When's Dr Cable going to hand over the Lib-Dem leadership to Jo Swinson?

    The assumptions been when Jo's back from maternity leave so probably some time in 2019.

    Interesting. I think Lib-Dems will do better with Jo leading them. They need a fresh face.
    They need fresh ideas as well as the fresh face. Their only policy now seems to be opposing Brexit, and that will be redundant a year from now.
    But to be fair, the government doesn't seem to have any policies aside from 'Brexit means Brexit'. Which is why the Russian attack has proven so useful to them: not only have they handled it well, but it gives another dimension to the government.

    If I was to launch a new party (if I did, it probably wouldn't even get my vote), I'd ignore Brexit as much as possible and develop a platform of policies for a post-Brexit country.
    I’m not too sure the government has a lot of choice for the next year or so, although we do know the PM has some good ideas, particularly around inter generational unfairness which she’s mentioned in speeches.

    Agree completely that any political movement needs to develop policies for a post-Brexit world. I know this is an unpopular view but I think, like with the Russian situation, that everyone in politics now needs to come together and seek to take advantage of the opportunities of Brexit.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,247
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DaBdP6NW4AE1TfF.jpg:large

    Anyone recognise this poster up today in Hungary????
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 20,754

    Sean_F said:

    O/T, I felt great sympathy for Sarah Montague, writing in the Sunday Times, who is "incandescent with rage" at being paid £133,000 by the BBC.

    It must be a constant struggle to get by on such an income.

    Sean, I know many of my colleagues, on pay packets between £70,000 and £130,000 say the same.
    My household income just about gets into six figures. That enables us to live well, but not lavishly. I wouldn't dream of complaining this is somehow unjust.
    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    O/T, I felt great sympathy for Sarah Montague, writing in the Sunday Times, who is "incandescent with rage" at being paid £133,000 by the BBC.

    It must be a constant struggle to get by on such an income.

    If she's not happy, I'll cheerfully swap with her.

    I'm sure I could find a way to struggle by on that even after Hammond has stolen taxed a large chunk of it.
    98% of earners would cheerfully swap.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    O/T, I felt great sympathy for Sarah Montague, writing in the Sunday Times, who is "incandescent with rage" at being paid £133,000 by the BBC.

    It must be a constant struggle to get by on such an income.

    Sean, I know many of my colleagues, on pay packets between £70,000 and £130,000 say the same.
    My household income just about gets into six figures. That enables us to live well, but not lavishly. I wouldn't dream of complaining this is somehow unjust.
    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    O/T, I felt great sympathy for Sarah Montague, writing in the Sunday Times, who is "incandescent with rage" at being paid £133,000 by the BBC.

    It must be a constant struggle to get by on such an income.

    If she's not happy, I'll cheerfully swap with her.

    I'm sure I could find a way to struggle by on that even after Hammond has stolen taxed a large chunk of it.
    98% of earners would cheerfully swap.
    And quite a number of freeloaders probably would as well.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 6,816
    Panic and fury? This is a reach from Hodges.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 150
    The first sentence is true which makes that tweet better than the average Dan Hodges tweet.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,788
    Sean_F said:

    O/T, I felt great sympathy for Sarah Montague, writing in the Sunday Times, who is "incandescent with rage" at being paid £133,000 by the BBC.

    It must be a constant struggle to get by on such an income.

    To be fair to Ms Montague I don’t think she’s "incandescent with rage" at being paid £133,000 but at the fact that others doing the same job are, apparently, being paid £233,000.

    Or something like that.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,340
    DM_Andy said:

    The first sentence is true which makes that tweet better than the average Dan Hodges tweet.
    I don't think there will be a new party, but I think there is a need for one, and a number of 'potential' markets (which in itself is a problem).

    Another issue is that the people who are talking most about setting one up are people who are distinctly unfresh.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,247

    The Donald tweets:


    Many dead, including women and children, in mindless CHEMICAL attack in Syria. Area of atrocity is in lockdown and encircled by Syrian Army, making it completely inaccessible to outside world. President Putin, Russia and Iran are responsible for backing Animal Assad. Big price...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 14,120
    Chilling. Seems the Cult are starting to think about 'reform' of the BBC.



    We know what that will mean.

    As has been pointed out on here many times - the blessed church of St. Jeremy will not broke any criticism or adverse comment concerning the anointed one. Pravda here we come...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,423


    The Donald tweets:


    Many dead, including women and children, in mindless CHEMICAL attack in Syria. Area of atrocity is in lockdown and encircled by Syrian Army, making it completely inaccessible to outside world. President Putin, Russia and Iran are responsible for backing Animal Assad. Big price...

    Bloody hell, Trump outright criticising Putin and Russia. Fair play to him.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 3,030
    edited April 8
    DM_Andy said:

    The first sentence is true which makes that tweet better than the average Dan Hodges tweet.
    Yes he is a bitter loser.The Mail always gives Labour critics a voice.To be fair the right wing press gave Livingstone a platform to shout about Blair back in the day.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,247
    In major news I can tell you that the Hungarian for exit poll is "exit poll" or "exitpoll"
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,632
    I am in a terrible Panic

    And will be furious if the Blairites form a new party!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,697
    edited April 8
    The last Survation poll comparing Tory voteshare under May, Boris and Hammond and Rudd and Davis had only Boris getting a higher voteshare than May against Corbyn so I don't think this necessarily holds at all. At the end of the day it is whether each candidate will get voters to vote Tory that matters not whether Labour or LD voters like them or not.

    In any case according to yougov Hammond has a net approval rating of -44%, worse than Boris' -41%. Though Rees Mogg has a higher approval rating than both at -37%

    https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/Philip_Hammond

    https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/Boris_Johnson

    https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/Jacob_Rees_Mogg
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 150

    Chilling. Seems the Cult are starting to think about 'reform' of the BBC.



    We know what that will mean.

    As has been pointed out on here many times - the blessed church of St. Jeremy will not broke any criticism or adverse comment concerning the anointed one. Pravda here we come...

    I would be happy for them just to report honestly, the constant bias is wearisome.

  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 1,676

    In major news I can tell you that the Hungarian for exit poll is "exit poll" or "exitpoll"

    What's the translation for 'John Curtice'?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,247
    Quincel said:

    In major news I can tell you that the Hungarian for exit poll is "exit poll" or "exitpoll"

    What's the translation for 'John Curtice'?
    As it approaches 6PM our time, when polls close, I might tune in and find out...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 5,206
    Young Verstappen is a bit of a thug....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,697
    edited April 8
    HYUFD said:

    The last Survation poll comparing Tory voteshare under May, Boris and Hammond and Rudd and Davis had only Boris getting a higher voteshare than May against Corbyn so I don't think this necessarily holds at all. At the end of the day it is whether each candidate will get voters to vote Tory that matters not whether Labour or LD voters like them or not.

    In any case according to yougov Hammond has a net approval rating of -44%, worse than Boris' -41%. Though Rees Mogg has a higher approval rating than both at -37%

    https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/Philip_Hammond

    https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/Boris_Johnson

    https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/Jacob_Rees_Mogg

    Of course if you put all your faith in these ratings May will not be replaced as she has the highest of the lot and will lead the Tories into the next general election
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 64,315
    HYUFD said:

    The last Survation poll comparing Tory voteshare under May, Boris and Hammond and Rudd and Davis had only Boris getting a higher voteshare than May against Corbyn so I don't think this necessarily holds at all. At the end of the day it is whether each candidate will get voters to vote Tory that matters not whether Labour or LD voters like them or not.

    In any case according to yougov Hammond has a net approval rating of -44%, worse than Boris' -41%. Though Rees Mogg has a higher approval rating than both at -37%

    https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/Philip_Hammond

    https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/Boris_Johnson

    https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/Jacob_Rees_Mogg

    Those aren't approval ratings, but positivity ratings.

    They aren't cited in their normal polling.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,423
    Nigelb said:

    Young Verstappen is a bit of a thug....

    And again, it costs him a hatful of points.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 64,315
    Nigelb said:

    Young Verstappen is a bit of a thug....

    I cheered when he got a puncture.

    He's a right Dutch shunt (sic)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Young Verstappen is a bit of a thug....

    And again, it costs him a hatful of points.
    He's not quite got the Max out of his car yet.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,759
    Afternoon all :)

    So we see why any new party is going to struggle to get off the ground.

    On the one side, you have a substantial bloc of the electorate who think Jeremy Corbyn is evil incarnate and the Labour Party the most incompetent, unpleasant and frightening group the world has ever seen whose sole aim is to reduce the country and themselves to penury. The only way to prevent this nightmare is to stay resolutely with Theresa May and the Conservatives.

    On the other hand, you have a substantial bloc of the electorate who regard Theresa May as the most uncaring, selfish and narrow-minded Prime Minister in the country's history. She surrounds herself with the likes of Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees Mogg who are interested only in the plight of the wealthy. The sole aim of the Conservative Party is to reduce both themselves and their community to penury and make the bulk of the population little more than slaves. The only way to end this nightmare is to stay resolutely with Jeremy Corbyn and Labour.

    For those of us who agree with either both propositions or neither it's a uniquely depressing prospect.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,643
    I'm glad Vince has that strongly negative rating but surprised enough people cared enough to give an opinion on him.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469
    Essexit said:

    I'm glad Vince has that strongly negative rating but surprised enough people cared enough to give an opinion on him.

    Perhaps they thought it was James Vince who was one of the lowest points of a winter not noted for high spots...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469

    Nigelb said:

    Young Verstappen is a bit of a thug....

    I cheered when he got a puncture.

    He's a right Dutch shunt (sic)
    Well he doesn't seem to have damaged Hamilton's car to judge by the charge he's on.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,423

    Nigelb said:

    Young Verstappen is a bit of a thug....

    I cheered when he got a puncture.

    He's a right Dutch shunt (sic)
    ;)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 5,206

    Nigelb said:

    Young Verstappen is a bit of a thug....

    I cheered when he got a puncture.

    He's a right Dutch shunt (sic)
    Remarkably talented, but he seems to display less judgment with every race.
    Sometime he’s going to cause a really big shunt.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,805
    FPT
    justin124 said:

    » show previous quotes
    I don't bet but I do not recall your prediction of 21 SNP losses in 2017.

    LOL, I offer a bet and the snowflake Tory hurls an insult. You cretinous cowardly half-witted dullard , go F**** yourself
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 5,206
    Essexit said:

    I'm glad Vince has that strongly negative rating but surprised enough people cared enough to give an opinion on him.

    Perhaps a mark of the desire for a credible third party. Vince has become a bedblocker.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,805
    DM_Andy said:

    Chilling. Seems the Cult are starting to think about 'reform' of the BBC.



    We know what that will mean.

    As has been pointed out on here many times - the blessed church of St. Jeremy will not broke any criticism or adverse comment concerning the anointed one. Pravda here we come...

    I would be happy for them just to report honestly, the constant bias is wearisome.

    Worth voting for Labour just to get the BBC propaganda unit shut down or completely neutered at least.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 64,315
    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    justin124 said:

    » show previous quotes
    I don't bet but I do not recall your prediction of 21 SNP losses in 2017.

    LOL, I offer a bet and the snowflake Tory hurls an insult. You cretinous cowardly half-witted dullard , go F**** yourself

    In which universe is Justin a Tory?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,340

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    justin124 said:

    » show previous quotes
    I don't bet but I do not recall your prediction of 21 SNP losses in 2017.

    LOL, I offer a bet and the snowflake Tory hurls an insult. You cretinous cowardly half-witted dullard , go F**** yourself

    In which universe is Justin a Tory?
    We are all PB Tories now, comrade! ;)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 64,315
    I think Everton fans must feel like Liverpool fans when we had Roy Hodgson as manager.



    (Yes, in the second leg Herr Klopp would have rested the likes of Firmino, Salah, Ox, Trent A-A, and Robbo)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,805
    edited April 8

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    justin124 said:

    » show previous quotes
    I don't bet but I do not recall your prediction of 21 SNP losses in 2017.

    LOL, I offer a bet and the snowflake Tory hurls an insult. You cretinous cowardly half-witted dullard , go F**** yourself

    In which universe is Justin a Tory?
    He is an arse at best, needs to learn some social skills.
    PS: I could not think of a bigger insult than Tory
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 64,315
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    justin124 said:

    » show previous quotes
    I don't bet but I do not recall your prediction of 21 SNP losses in 2017.

    LOL, I offer a bet and the snowflake Tory hurls an insult. You cretinous cowardly half-witted dullard , go F**** yourself

    In which universe is Justin a Tory?
    He is an arse at best, needs to learn some social skills.
    Says the guy who seems incapable of going two posts without calling people turnips or telling people to go f*** themselves.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,314
    'I want to be absolutely clear on this..'

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,805
    edited April 8

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    justin124 said:

    » show previous quotes
    I don't bet but I do not recall your prediction of 21 SNP losses in 2017.

    LOL, I offer a bet and the snowflake Tory hurls an insult. You cretinous cowardly half-witted dullard , go F**** yourself

    In which universe is Justin a Tory?
    He is an arse at best, needs to learn some social skills.
    Says the guy who seems incapable of going two posts without calling people turnips or telling people to go f*** themselves.
    I have many thousands of posts without insults, it is supposed to be a betting site. If you do not wish to take the wager there is no excuse for insults. I reply in kind. You seem also to have lost your sense of humour , I have not used "turnips" for years and even then most people took it as the joke it was meant to be. Have a look in the mirror.
    PS , you missed a * out , mine deliberately had 4, pay attention next time you have to try and help your buddy
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 803
    Looking at the proposal for a new party, and seeing the same thing again and again - "we need a centre ground party" (with the unspoken "but not the Lib Dems because they're still a bit toxic"). They're not defining what it's for but what it's against .

    That's no formula for any party, and it's a misdiagnosis anyway. It's just disliking being given only two choices, (or only one choice if you decide the other is unacceptable). This leads to either reluctant voting for something you don't really want, or weighing up two things you dislike to choose which one you least despise.

    Unsurprisingly, this leads to people believing neither of those two choices actually represent them, and leads to disillusionment with politics and politicians and, occasionally, a call for an alternative. From about 1980 to 2010, the Lib Dems harnessed that discontent, but lost it when they accepted some real power.

    People even go further and diagnose the political system, which promotes only two choices.

    I think it's further than that. There are two views on democratic government: "adversarial" and "consensual", and those who hold either view often find the other completely foreign to their thinking.

    "Adversarial" is majoritarian: run an election, whichever choice gets more votes than any other, "wins", and puts its views into practice untramelled by anyone else. Everyone who loses has to suck it up; they'll get another chance soon enough. As it's rare for any choice to get a proper majority (over 50% of votes), even with the polarisation you see in majoritarian electoral systems, most people feel unrepresented to a significant degree - even many of those who voted for "the winner", as they feel almost coerced into voting for a less-bad choice. Advocates say "what you see is what you get" and feel it's faster to react. And as party members tend to have the strongest ideological support for any party, they'll least like the idea of compromising.

    "Consensual" is proportional: run an election, and build a government from compromise between the views in an attempt to represent the views of as many as possible. Doesn't always work that way, but does tend to end up with people feeling better represented. Advocates point out that people can vote more "honestly" for their own views, and governments represent more of the population and do so better. On the other hand, you acn argue that no-one gets exactly what they voted for (a counter to that is that the Government's supposed to represent everyone, not just those who voted for Party X).

    You can get that wider choice in the latter forms of Government, and I think that wider choice is what's being wanted. It can't be provided by any one party, whether a new one, the Lib Dems, or the existing Big Two.

    Without a different electoral system and the associated view becoming embedded, this will continue to happen, and we'll continue to get resentment and polarisation.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 20,754

    Why am I getting an advert for "Mature Women Who Always Say Yes" when I log in?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 5,206
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    justin124 said:

    » show previous quotes
    I don't bet but I do not recall your prediction of 21 SNP losses in 2017.

    LOL, I offer a bet and the snowflake Tory hurls an insult. You cretinous cowardly half-witted dullard , go F**** yourself

    In which universe is Justin a Tory?
    He is an arse at best, needs to learn some social skills....
    I’m looking forward to the opening of malc’s finishing school for young gentlemen....

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 64,315
    Sean_F said:


    Why am I getting an advert for "Mature Women Who Always Say Yes" when I log in?

    Blame your own browsing history.

    The adverts you see is based on what you've been looking searching for.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,480
    Bloody hell, I knew things were bad for Corbyn, but only 2% better than Cable? Maybe time to tend his allotment full time.....
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 5,815
    Sean_F said:


    Why am I getting an advert for "Mature Women Who Always Say Yes" when I log in?

    Must be something to do with a second Scottish Independence referendum.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 20,754

    Sean_F said:


    Why am I getting an advert for "Mature Women Who Always Say Yes" when I log in?

    Blame your own browsing history.

    The adverts you see is based on what you've been looking searching for.
    Russian Dating comes up a lot on UK Polling Report.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 7,754

    Sean_F said:


    Why am I getting an advert for "Mature Women Who Always Say Yes" when I log in?

    Blame your own browsing history.

    The adverts you see is based on what you've been looking searching for.
    Yes but now everyone's browsing history includes reading about Sean_F's ...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,314
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:


    Why am I getting an advert for "Mature Women Who Always Say Yes" when I log in?

    Blame your own browsing history.

    The adverts you see is based on what you've been looking searching for.
    Russian Dating comes up a lot on UK Polling Report.
    That would be 'Mature Women Who Always Say Da' wouldn't it?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,805
    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    justin124 said:

    » show previous quotes
    I don't bet but I do not recall your prediction of 21 SNP losses in 2017.

    LOL, I offer a bet and the snowflake Tory hurls an insult. You cretinous cowardly half-witted dullard , go F**** yourself

    In which universe is Justin a Tory?
    He is an arse at best, needs to learn some social skills....
    I’m looking forward to the opening of malc’s finishing school for young gentlemen....

    Nigel, I will be sure to give you a large discount as you will only need minimal teaching.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 5,206
    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    justin124 said:

    » show previous quotes
    I don't bet but I do not recall your prediction of 21 SNP losses in 2017.

    LOL, I offer a bet and the snowflake Tory hurls an insult. You cretinous cowardly half-witted dullard , go F**** yourself

    In which universe is Justin a Tory?
    He is an arse at best, needs to learn some social skills....
    I’m looking forward to the opening of malc’s finishing school for young gentlemen....

    Nigel, I will be sure to give you a large discount as you will only need minimal teaching.
    You are indeed a gentleman.
    :smile:
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 5,815
    Looks like we need a Fascist Party to represent these poor souls.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,759

    Looking at the proposal for a new party, and seeing the same thing again and again - "we need a centre ground party" (with the unspoken "but not the Lib Dems because they're still a bit toxic"). They're not defining what it's for but what it's against .

    That's no formula for any party, and it's a misdiagnosis anyway. It's just disliking being given only two choices, (or only one choice if you decide the other is unacceptable). This leads to either reluctant voting for something you don't really want, or weighing up two things you dislike to choose which one you least despise.

    Unsurprisingly, this leads to people believing neither of those two choices actually represent them, and leads to disillusionment with politics and politicians and, occasionally, a call for an alternative. From about 1980 to 2010, the Lib Dems harnessed that discontent, but lost it when they accepted some real power.

    People even go further and diagnose the political system, which promotes only two choices.

    I think it's further than that. There are two views on democratic government: "adversarial" and "consensual", and those who hold either view often find the other completely foreign to their thinking.

    Apologies for the snip, Andy, and thanks for an excellent and coherent contribution.

    I think even if we had a proportional system we'd have a recognisable centre-right bloc and a recognisable centre-left bloc of parties. There would be smaller parties outside the blocs - some would join one bloc or another periodically and others would always sit beyond the two blocs.

    The core task for any new party is, as you say, to define what it is, what it stands for. In doing so, it will automatically lose a swathe of the electorate who will simply not agree with it. The lazier commentators will try and pigeon hole it in terms of "left" and "right" but hopefully it will be beyond that and be its own thing. In the same way seeing everything through the prism of A50 and EU withdrawal doesn't help.

    Trying to come up with solutions to the problems of the 2020s and beyond is a real challenge - we've scarcely got to grips with the big issues (housing, demographics) and bigger ones (Artificial Intelligence) are looming. The parties that invest time and effort in thinking now will reap the reward in the longer term.

    Ostensibly, the centre and centre-left has failed to respond intellectually to the events of 2008 when a decade of cheap food, cheap fuel, cheap money and rising asset values came to a violent end on their watch. Was it their fault ? To a point, yes, but the economic battlefield was abandoned to the extremes be it austerity or reckless borrowing. Neither of these work, we all know that, but plotting a clear economic path in the future is and remains a huge series of questions.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 21,415
    "Roy Hattersley, Labour’s former deputy leader, has reignited the party’s feuding by claiming it is “in danger of disintegration” as extremists take over.

    Labour is in “a much more dangerous situation” than during the Militant Tendency insurgency of the 1980s because left-wing activists are “increasingly in control” he claimed."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-latest-danger-disintegration-roy-hattersley-warns-a8294721.html
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 5,815
    'German police have foiled an alleged plot to attack Sunday's half-marathon in Berlin.

    They said six men were arrested over plans to carry out a "violent crime".'

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43690192
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 64,315
    Oh no Kimi/Ferrari.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,805
    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    justin124 said:

    » show previous quotes
    I don't bet but I do not recall your prediction of 21 SNP losses in 2017.

    LOL, I offer a bet and the snowflake Tory hurls an insult. You cretinous cowardly half-witted dullard , go F**** yourself

    In which universe is Justin a Tory?
    He is an arse at best, needs to learn some social skills....
    I’m looking forward to the opening of malc’s finishing school for young gentlemen....

    Nigel, I will be sure to give you a large discount as you will only need minimal teaching.
    You are indeed a gentleman.
    :smile:
    I think it is that time of day when a Gentleman needs a refreshment, I will bid you good day.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,340

    Oh no Kimi/Ferrari.

    That was nasty.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 21,415
    edited April 8
    "Immigration has put up house prices by 20% over the past 25 years and Britain’s post-Brexit border rules must take account of demand for affordable homes, the new housing minister has declared."

    "Housing Minister Dominic Raab told The Sunday Times that: “Based on the ONS data, the advice to me from the department is that in the last 25 years we have seen immigration put house prices up by something like 20%.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/tory-housing-minister-dominic-raab-warns-that-immigration-has-pushed-up-house-prices-n27b7lq8j
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 1,468
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:


    :
    .

    Eddie Izzard?
    'Not one or the other' . I think it is pretty clear Mr Izzard is a Labour man, even if only us anoraks knew prior to a week or so ago.
    TBH, I suspect that only us anoraks know today!
    Probably, but it at least got a mention in the mainstream news, briefly, when he got on to the NEC.

    >

    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Can we all agree that the cliche "useful idiot" has been fucked to death? Nobody should use it until they have read and fully parsed Volkogonov's "Lenin:A New Biography" in order to properly understand its context.

    Words and phrases take on their own popular meaning, which can be completely at odds with its original purpose.
    Quite so. I think its generally used form now is understood.
    Absolutely.
    It's very easily understood as a phrase righties throw out when they want to associate lefties with Marxist Leninism and the excesses of the Soviet Union (which by some miracle of transmutation are still defining qualities of Putin's Russia).
    On the contrary - I think it can be used generically to refer to people who through their actions, and idiocy, aid people hostile to their own interests.

    I'm very much in favour of de-partisan-ing insults. It's why I think snowflake applies to both right and left. Ans useful idiot is a useful enough phrase to be restricted solely to one side of the spectrum or ties to marxism.

    Which is not to say people don't use it in the manner you describe, but getting one's panties in a twist about it seems like an overreaction. Nor does some people overusing it mean it can never apply to anyone.

    Politics evolves, political language evolves as well, you don't have to be stuck in a 1980s mindset and assume everyone else is, even if some clearly are.

    Edit - and you are right, Boris's example clearly was in that context. But I think we can co-opt it to wider use.

    Some might say Boris is in some ways a useful idiot.

    The reason that the phrase can be justified, is that there is a long established tradition of people who, on any given topic, will take the Russian side of any dispute.

    The phrase has been applied to other areas - during the troubles, there was a small group of MPs who would simply regurgitate the excuses published in An Phoblacht whenever the PIRA did something a bit OTT.
  • sladeslade Posts: 544
    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    DM_Andy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    When's Dr Cable going to hand over the Lib-Dem leadership to Jo Swinson?

    The assumptions been when Jo's back from maternity leave so probably some time in 2019.

    Interesting. I think Lib-Dems will do better with Jo leading them. They need a fresh face.
    They need fresh ideas as well as the fresh face. Their only policy now seems to be opposing Brexit, and that will be redundant a year from now.
    In fact there is quite a lot of new thinking going on in the Lib Dems at the moment. There was a pamphlet published recently by Howarth and Greaves which attempts to set out the agenda.
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