Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB plan to give free bus travel to those of 25 and younger

SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited April 12 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB plan to give free bus travel to those of 25 and younger

It is being reported that Corbyn’s Labour is planning a big measure to help those under 25 if it should win the next election with transport costs. The plan is to offer a free bus pass to those in that age group which can be used on those services which are wholly or partly provided by public bodies.

Read the full story here


«13456

Comments

  • PeterMannionPeterMannion Posts: 246
    First, like Stagecoach?
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 4,895

    First, like Stagecoach?

    You'd be lucky.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 6,804
    Meanwhile, Trump looks like he's rowing back on Syria.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 27,715
    But is it more about municipalising buses than helping the young?

    Rumbled.....
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,500

    But is it more about municipalising buses than helping the young?

    Rumbled.....

    Perhaps an expert on EU laws can clarify if this will constitute state aid ?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,340
    As I've said passim about railway renationalisation: if Labour get in and renationalise the railways, expect fares to be artificially reduced (and hence the process a 'success') by moving some of the burden from the traveller to general taxation.

    The pensioners' bus pass policy has proved to be a disaster for local services, meaning many have a bus pass but no bus service. This wizard wheeze will cause exactly the same problems - in the end, someone has to pay.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 27,715
    Tyne & Wear used to have an excellent integrated transport system built around metro, buses, through ticketing and interchanges - but when the Tories privatised it, they did not extent the central control they afforded London to other metropolitan centres - a major muck up.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 811
    So if the young and old get free bus travel what about those in-between?

    The middle always gets squeezed hardest under Labour.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 19,213
    Jonn Elledge's view in the New Statesman:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/2018/04/labour-s-free-bus-travel-under-25s-decent-policy-political-masterstroke

    I agree to a point. It's not a humongous masterstroke because the Tories have already decided to back the old against the young, but it certainly helps reinforce that dividing line.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,632
    Novochick or no novochick
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 3,030
    edited April 12
    jonny83 said:

    So if the young and old get free bus travel what about those in-between?

    The middle always gets squeezed hardest under Labour.

    Londoners at 60 , get free travel .Have a public sector bus services.In the north it is at pension age 66 and rising , with a very limited service in many cases.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 4,895
    Danny565 said:

    Meanwhile, Trump looks like he's rowing back on Syria.

    This is not the parallel with Obama I was hoping for.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,340

    Novochick or no novochick

    Is that 'independent' enough for you, or are you going to find some other excuse to prevaricate?
  • Can we call buses by their proper name, peasant wagons
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 6,804

    Boris:

    Ha, I was googling to see if "iris" had a meaning which I wasn't aware of (before your edit) :D
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 1,818

    As I've said passim about railway renationalisation: if Labour get in and renationalise the railways, expect fares to be artificially reduced (and hence the process a 'success') by moving some of the burden from the traveller to general taxation.

    The pensioners' bus pass policy has proved to be a disaster for local services, meaning many have a bus pass but no bus service. This wizard wheeze will cause exactly the same problems - in the end, someone has to pay.

    Yes, that has been the case in Leics too. The Adult sigle fare from my house to the City Centre is £3.80, and apparently the bus company gets about a pound for each pensioner journey, meaning that the only people paying are the commuters. During the day no one pays at all. As such the route is less profitable, and was cut to 2 hourly from hourly. Several villages further out lost their busses completely.

    The Isle of Wight suffers from this too. It has a reasonable bus network, but may of the users are freeloading mainland pensioner tourists, subsidised by the IoW council tax payer. IoW has a per capita income substantially below the national average.

    I am all in favour of subsidised public transport, to allow people to get to work affordably, and cut congestion and pollution, but the mechanism and outcomes of these subsidies do need better evaluation.





  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547

    Well that's clear then......

    twitter.com/JamesTapsfield/status/984389843093479424

    With leadership like that....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 27,715
    Danny565 said:

    Boris:

    Ha, I was googling to see if "iris" had a meaning which I wasn't aware of (before your edit) :D
    Autocorrect....I suspect I missed the 'B'.....
  • FPT

    I know I tipped Raab, but now might be the time to start laying him.

    Housing minister Dominic Raab today faced mounting pressure as the UK statistics watchdog demanded he publish evidence for a controversial claim blaming surging house prices on immigrants.

    The UK Statistics Authority is calling for the model he used to claim property prices spiralled by 20 per cent over 25 years because of immigration to be made available to the public.

    Ed Humpherson, head of the watchdog’s Office for Statistics Regulation, said: “Where analysis is quoted in public debate, the UK Statistics Authority believes it is essential that it be made equally available to all.

    “We have been speaking to officials at the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government about the minister’s statements on migration and housing.”

    Mr Humpherson is preparing to write to officials at MHCLG today to request the analysis is released publicly.

    Mr Raab has come under fire amid reports the claim relied on analysis from a quango which shut down eight years ago. Independent fact-checking organisation Full Fact said it had been unable to find any evidence in the public domain to support his comments, published in the Sunday Times.


    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/dominic-raab-urged-to-make-immigration-house-price-data-public-a3812346.html
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547

    Can we call buses by their proper name, peasant wagons

    Or in Liverpool, target practice.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547
    edited April 12

    But is it more about municipalising buses than helping the young?

    Rumbled.....

    Paid for by taking the money allocated for road repairs...I can't see that being an issue.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 14,440
    FPT

    What concerns me is that even after a chemical weapon is used on our own shores by a foreign power, people still seem to think that the chemical weapons treaties are not worth upholding.

    It is not a case of saying it is not worth upholding. It is a case of saying that we are utterly incapable of taking any action that would make any difference - unless of course you really do want to have US and UK pilots shooting down Russian aircraft - and even then it would almost certainly fail to make any difference. We can and will only make things worse, not better.

    (Snip)
    If we do not act when they are used, we are not upholding the treaties and they are worthless.

    The Treaties have been worthless for decades. At least since we in the West allowed our proxy in the Middle East to use them against his neighbours and his own people.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469
    edited April 12

    As I've said passim about railway renationalisation: if Labour get in and renationalise the railways, expect fares to be artificially reduced (and hence the process a 'success') by moving some of the burden from the traveller to general taxation.

    The pensioners' bus pass policy has proved to be a disaster for local services, meaning many have a bus pass but no bus service. This wizard wheeze will cause exactly the same problems - in the end, someone has to pay.

    Except they have already sworn blind that the money from the currently private profits will go to new rolling stock. And they cannot see the contradiction.

    This happened in the 1940s as well, when many Labour MPs including Dalton talked about using the profits to spend on the railways, keep ticket prices low and cut taxes - and only after nationalisation discovered that all railway companies ran at an operating loss. (They should have known, all the information was available - they were just wilfully blind to it.)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547
    edited April 12

    twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/984391189469319168
    twitter.com/RTUKnews/status/984390008739115008

    Tin foil hats at the ready...



  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,632

    Novochick or no novochick

    Is that 'independent' enough for you, or are you going to find some other excuse to prevaricate?
    Depends. Do they specifically say Novochick from Russia or not?

    I am in snooker and my fingers tapping my phone is too much noise.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,340
    Foxy said:

    As I've said passim about railway renationalisation: if Labour get in and renationalise the railways, expect fares to be artificially reduced (and hence the process a 'success') by moving some of the burden from the traveller to general taxation.

    The pensioners' bus pass policy has proved to be a disaster for local services, meaning many have a bus pass but no bus service. This wizard wheeze will cause exactly the same problems - in the end, someone has to pay.

    Yes, that has been the case in Leics too. The Adult sigle fare from my house to the City Centre is £3.80, and apparently the bus company gets about a pound for each pensioner journey, meaning that the only people paying are the commuters. During the day no one pays at all. As such the route is less profitable, and was cut to 2 hourly from hourly. Several villages further out lost their busses completely.

    The Isle of Wight suffers from this too. It has a reasonable bus network, but may of the users are freeloading mainland pensioner tourists, subsidised by the IoW council tax payer. IoW has a per capita income substantially below the national average.

    I am all in favour of subsidised public transport, to allow people to get to work affordably, and cut congestion and pollution, but the mechanism and outcomes of these subsidies do need better evaluation.
    We need honesty. Someone has to pay. That is a split between the traveller and the taxpayer; if the traveller pays nothing, then the taxpayer needs to pick up the tab. And it needs making clear that isn't just 'the rich': it is everyone.

    I also think that taking it out of the roads budget is madness.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547
    edited April 12

    Novochick or no novochick

    Is that 'independent' enough for you, or are you going to find some other excuse to prevaricate?
    Depends. Do they specifically say Novochick from Russia or not?

    I am in snooker and my fingers tapping my phone is too much noise.

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jezza's only approved newspaper, the Morning Star says this...

    “Today, the pretext for escalating Britain’s military involvement in Syria is that the Assad regime — the internationally recognised, legitimate and elected government in Damascus — is guilty of a poison gas attack on the citizens of Douma. Film of the aftermath, broadcast across the world in recent days, shows a troupe of very camera-conscious young men washing down the victims, all of whom are children, most of them looking more bewildered than wounded or incapacitated, and without a distressed parent or relative in sight.”

    Even by the remarkably low standards of the Morning Star, the bits I have bolded are pretty shocking lies. Do they think anyone with an IQ of more than 4 believes them?

    It's also quite striking that as good Communists they are supporting the corrupt rich rather than the downtrodden poor...
    Scarily people are believing all this misinformation, see the doubts over nerve agent attack, and bizarrely pushing the same agenda as the right wing loons at places like InfoWars.
    But surely - even if people believe the second bit - nobody with access to the internet would accept the first part? It's sheer lunacy to suggest the Ba'ath party is in any way democratic or indeed widely internationally recognised. Most states have broken off diplomatic relations.
    I just don't know anymore...see some posters on here who keep linking to these Fake News websites and it takes 10+ posts from others providing evidence from reputable sources showing that the original link isn't correct, before there is even a partial admittance that perhaps things might not be 100% on the up and up.
  • twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/984391189469319168
    twitter.com/RTUKnews/status/984390008739115008

    Tin foil hats at the ready...



    Forget Iraq, Blair's worst mistake was making Craig Murray an Ambassador.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547
    edited April 12

    Foxy said:

    As I've said passim about railway renationalisation: if Labour get in and renationalise the railways, expect fares to be artificially reduced (and hence the process a 'success') by moving some of the burden from the traveller to general taxation.

    The pensioners' bus pass policy has proved to be a disaster for local services, meaning many have a bus pass but no bus service. This wizard wheeze will cause exactly the same problems - in the end, someone has to pay.

    Yes, that has been the case in Leics too. The Adult sigle fare from my house to the City Centre is £3.80, and apparently the bus company gets about a pound for each pensioner journey, meaning that the only people paying are the commuters. During the day no one pays at all. As such the route is less profitable, and was cut to 2 hourly from hourly. Several villages further out lost their busses completely.

    The Isle of Wight suffers from this too. It has a reasonable bus network, but may of the users are freeloading mainland pensioner tourists, subsidised by the IoW council tax payer. IoW has a per capita income substantially below the national average.

    I am all in favour of subsidised public transport, to allow people to get to work affordably, and cut congestion and pollution, but the mechanism and outcomes of these subsidies do need better evaluation.
    We need honesty. Someone has to pay. That is a split between the traveller and the taxpayer; if the traveller pays nothing, then the taxpayer needs to pick up the tab. And it needs making clear that isn't just 'the rich': it is everyone.

    I also think that taking it out of the roads budget is madness.
    No such thing as free lunch, just like the free student fees. Everybody is going to pay more, despite what John the Marxist says.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 27,715

    Novochick or no novochick

    Is that 'independent' enough for you, or are you going to find some other excuse to prevaricate?
    Depends. Do they specifically say Novochick from Russia or not?

    I am in snooker and my fingers tapping my phone is too much noise.
    'the OPCW team confirm the findings of the United Kingdom relating to the identity of the toxic chemical used.......[and] notes that the toxic chemical was of high purity [with] almost complete absence of impurities'

    https://e3.365dm.com/18/04/1096x616/skynews-skripal-opcw_4280468.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20180412115458
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 8,102
    edited April 12
    Proportion saying that these measures would help the less well off more:

    Reducing train ticket prices: 29
    Cutting taxes on petrol/diesel: 21

    Admittedly the difference is mostly accounted for by more people thinking the latter would help both groups equally, but this seems wrong to me.

    Thanks to the irritating statistical disclosure control for the 2011 Census, we can only look at driving v train/tram/bus. But here's the job split in the composition of the two groups (train/tram/bus first). I reckon the difference would be more pronounced for just train users, but I think cutting train ticket prices would benefit the well off more.

    NS-SeC v (Train, underground, metro, light rail, tram, bus, minibus or coach) (Driving a car or van)
    1. Higher managerial, administrative and professional occupations 17% 14%
    2. Lower managerial, administrative and professional occupations 26% 28%
    3. Intermediate occupations 17% 15%
    4. Small employers and own account workers 4% 10%
    5. Lower supervisory and technical occupations 6% 9%
    6. Semi-routine occupations 15% 13%
    7. Routine occupations 8% 10%
    L15 Full-time students 7% 2%
  • Behind the paywall but you can access one free article a week if you sign up to The Times.

    Is an interesting read. I wish we had a scandal like this today.

    Jeremy Thorpe tried to kill me — Norman Scott on the scandal that shook Seventies Britain

    A new drama is about to reignite interest in Britain’s biggest political sex scandal of the Seventies. The man at its centre explains how close he came to being murdered


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/times2/jeremy-thorpe-tried-to-kill-me-norman-scott-on-the-scandal-that-shook-seventies-britain-2bzq0lnk8
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,113
    Hmmm - Mike writes an entire article about the policy without even considering how much it might cost, and whether there might be a better use for the money.

    To govern is to choose. Is this a good choice, compared with other possible uses for the money?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547
    edited April 12

    Novochick or no novochick

    Is that 'independent' enough for you, or are you going to find some other excuse to prevaricate?
    Depends. Do they specifically say Novochick from Russia or not?

    I am in snooker and my fingers tapping my phone is too much noise.
    'the OPCW team confirm the findings of the United Kingdom relating to the identity of the toxic chemical used.......[and] notes that the toxic chemical was of high purity [with] almost complete absence of impurities'

    https://e3.365dm.com/18/04/1096x616/skynews-skripal-opcw_4280468.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20180412115458
    skwawkbox is helpfully pushing a new conspiracy theory...

    FOUR CURIOSITIES IN YULIA SKRIPAL’S ‘OFFICIAL’ STATEMENT - It contains a number of ‘curiosities’ that are fuelling public distrust among those who doubt its authenticity

    The InfoWars approach has been imported to the UK.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469

    twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/984391189469319168
    twitter.com/RTUKnews/status/984390008739115008

    Tin foil hats at the ready...



    The secret is to bang the rocks together, guys...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,632

    Novochick or no novochick

    Is that 'independent' enough for you, or are you going to find some other excuse to prevaricate?
    Depends. Do they specifically say Novochick from Russia or not?

    I am in snooker and my fingers tapping my phone is too much noise.

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jezza's only approved newspaper, the Morning Star says this...

    “Today, the pretext for escalating Britain’s military involvement in Syria is that the Assad regime — the internationally recognised, legitimate and elected government in Damascus — is guilty of a poison gas attack on the citizens of Douma. Film of the aftermath, broadcast across the world in recent days, shows a troupe of very camera-conscious young men washing down the victims, all of whom are children, most of them looking more bewildered than wounded or incapacitated, and without a distressed parent or relative in sight.”

    Even by the remarkably low standards of the Morning Star, the bits I have bolded are pretty shocking lies. Do they think anyone with an IQ of more than 4 believes them?

    It's also quite striking that as good Communists they are supporting the corrupt rich rather than the downtrodden poor...
    Scarily people are believing all this misinformation, see the doubts over nerve agent attack, and bizarrely pushing the same agenda as the right wing loons at places like InfoWars.
    But surely - even if people believe the second bit - nobody with access to the internet would accept the first part? It's sheer lunacy to suggest the Ba'ath party is in any way democratic or indeed widely internationally recognised. Most states have broken off diplomatic relations.
    I just don't know anymore...see some posters on here who keep linking to these Fake News websites and it takes 10+ posts from others providing evidence from reputable sources showing that the original link isn't correct, before there is even a partial admittance that perhaps things might not be 100% on the up and up.
    You mean Bloomberg are fake news now.

    Novochick or no Novochick
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 1,818

    twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/984391189469319168
    twitter.com/RTUKnews/status/984390008739115008

    Tin foil hats at the ready...



    Forget Iraq, Blair's worst mistake was making Craig Murray an Ambassador.
    The tale of his sacking is entertaining. Some legitimate objections to tyrannical 'stan dictators combined with interesting personal behaviour.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 1,948

    twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/984391189469319168
    twitter.com/RTUKnews/status/984390008739115008

    Tin foil hats at the ready...



    Forget Iraq, Blair's worst mistake was making Craig Murray an Ambassador.
    Yet more evidence that we should scrap the FCO and start again.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 20,754

    twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/984391189469319168
    twitter.com/RTUKnews/status/984390008739115008

    Tin foil hats at the ready...



    Forget Iraq, Blair's worst mistake was making Craig Murray an Ambassador.
    Craig Murray may not have been mad, when he was appointed.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,480
    Someone tell Corbyn: Buses? Yer what? The under-25s are holding out for free BMWs.....
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,113
    Even the Guardian are in on the conspiracy:

    Britain’s claims about the type of nerve agent used to poison the Russian double agent Sergeir Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury have been upheld by the UN’s Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2018/apr/12/uk-russia-tensions-rise-over-syria-attack-and-salisbury-poisoning-live-updates
  • Novochick or no novochick

    Is that 'independent' enough for you, or are you going to find some other excuse to prevaricate?
    Depends. Do they specifically say Novochick from Russia or not?

    I am in snooker and my fingers tapping my phone is too much noise.
    'the OPCW team confirm the findings of the United Kingdom relating to the identity of the toxic chemical used.......[and] notes that the toxic chemical was of high purity [with] almost complete absence of impurities'

    https://e3.365dm.com/18/04/1096x616/skynews-skripal-opcw_4280468.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20180412115458
    skwawkbox is helpfully pushing a new conspiracy theory...

    FOUR CURIOSITIES IN YULIA SKRIPAL’S ‘OFFICIAL’ STATEMENT - It contains a number of ‘curiosities’ that are fuelling public distrust among those who doubt its authenticity

    The InfoWars approach has been imported to the UK.
    Nah, until skwawkbox until produce a video/advert like this, they are nothing like InforWars.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,632

    Novochick or no novochick

    Is that 'independent' enough for you, or are you going to find some other excuse to prevaricate?
    Depends. Do they specifically say Novochick from Russia or not?

    I am in snooker and my fingers tapping my phone is too much noise.
    'the OPCW team confirm the findings of the United Kingdom relating to the identity of the toxic chemical used.......[and] notes that the toxic chemical was of high purity [with] almost complete absence of impurities'

    https://e3.365dm.com/18/04/1096x616/skynews-skripal-opcw_4280468.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20180412115458
    skwawkbox is helpfully pushing a new conspiracy theory...

    FOUR CURIOSITIES IN YULIA SKRIPAL’S ‘OFFICIAL’ STATEMENT - It contains a number of ‘curiosities’ that are fuelling public distrust among those who doubt its authenticity

    The InfoWars approach has been imported to the UK.
    You really can't keep away from Skwawkbox can you

    Your definition of fake news is anyone who doesn't agree with FO propaganda isn't it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547
    edited April 12

    Novochick or no novochick

    Is that 'independent' enough for you, or are you going to find some other excuse to prevaricate?
    Depends. Do they specifically say Novochick from Russia or not?

    I am in snooker and my fingers tapping my phone is too much noise.

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jezza's only approved newspaper, the Morning Star says this...

    “Today, the pretext for escalating Britain’s military involvement in Syria is that the Assad regime — the internationally recognised, legitimate and elected government in Damascus — is guilty of a poison gas attack on the citizens of Douma. Film of the aftermath, broadcast across the world in recent days, shows a troupe of very camera-conscious young men washing down the victims, all of whom are children, most of them looking more bewildered than wounded or incapacitated, and without a distressed parent or relative in sight.”

    Even by the remarkably low standards of the Morning Star, the bits I have bolded are pretty shocking lies. Do they think anyone with an IQ of more than 4 believes them?

    It's also quite striking that as good Communists they are supporting the corrupt rich rather than the downtrodden poor...
    Scarily people are believing all this misinformation, see the doubts over nerve agent attack, and bizarrely pushing the same agenda as the right wing loons at places like InfoWars.
    But surely - even if people believe the second bit - nobody with access to the internet would accept the first part? It's sheer lunacy to suggest the Ba'ath party is in any way democratic or indeed widely internationally recognised. Most states have broken off diplomatic relations.
    I just don't know anymore...see some posters on here who keep linking to these Fake News websites and it takes 10+ posts from others providing evidence from reputable sources showing that the original link isn't correct, before there is even a partial admittance that perhaps things might not be 100% on the up and up.
    You mean Bloomberg are fake news now.

    Novochick or no Novochick
    What is novochick?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,483
    FPT


    Pulpstar said:
    Looks like Trump has been comprehensively outplayed by Putin.

    I said
    Quite the opposite actually. Putin said if you send missiles we will shoot them down. Trump said good luck with that. Russia said there will be consequences. Trump said yes indeedy and have you seen what's happened to your currency recently? Russia said, well, if you are going to do this would you mind awfully if we got our people out of harm's way first. Trump said yes, but be quick. Now he says, well its going to happen but not necessarily when. So do the inbedded Russians stay out of harm's way effectively neutered or do they go back to war and
    take their chances?

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547
    edited April 12

    Novochick or no novochick

    Is that 'independent' enough for you, or are you going to find some other excuse to prevaricate?
    Depends. Do they specifically say Novochick from Russia or not?

    I am in snooker and my fingers tapping my phone is too much noise.
    'the OPCW team confirm the findings of the United Kingdom relating to the identity of the toxic chemical used.......[and] notes that the toxic chemical was of high purity [with] almost complete absence of impurities'

    https://e3.365dm.com/18/04/1096x616/skynews-skripal-opcw_4280468.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20180412115458
    skwawkbox is helpfully pushing a new conspiracy theory...

    FOUR CURIOSITIES IN YULIA SKRIPAL’S ‘OFFICIAL’ STATEMENT - It contains a number of ‘curiosities’ that are fuelling public distrust among those who doubt its authenticity

    The InfoWars approach has been imported to the UK.
    You really can't keep away from Skwawkbox can you

    Your definition of fake news is anyone who doesn't agree with FO propaganda isn't it.
    I am interested in what the left wing fake news sites are pushing to try and aid Corbyn. Same as I used to look at InfoWars to see what they were pushing to try and help Trump.

    The fact you buy the stuff they post, despite being debunked time and time again, is actually rather sad.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,480
    I assume the Russians are running with the line:

    "The OPCW are a joke. How can they say these are Novichok? We have ensured they have never had any samples of the Novichok nerve agents we produce at our secret facility in....

    Oh. Ooops."
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 14,120

    FPT

    I know I tipped Raab, but now might be the time to start laying him.

    Housing minister Dominic Raab today faced mounting pressure as the UK statistics watchdog demanded he publish evidence for a controversial claim blaming surging house prices on immigrants.

    The UK Statistics Authority is calling for the model he used to claim property prices spiralled by 20 per cent over 25 years because of immigration to be made available to the public.

    Ed Humpherson, head of the watchdog’s Office for Statistics Regulation, said: “Where analysis is quoted in public debate, the UK Statistics Authority believes it is essential that it be made equally available to all.

    “We have been speaking to officials at the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government about the minister’s statements on migration and housing.”

    Mr Humpherson is preparing to write to officials at MHCLG today to request the analysis is released publicly.

    Mr Raab has come under fire amid reports the claim relied on analysis from a quango which shut down eight years ago. Independent fact-checking organisation Full Fact said it had been unable to find any evidence in the public domain to support his comments, published in the Sunday Times.


    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/dominic-raab-urged-to-make-immigration-house-price-data-public-a3812346.html

    Sounds like he has messed up. But probably survivable.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 39,697
    edited April 12
    A helpful move maybe but under 25s are already strongly Labour and as many are students or living at home it is actually 25 to 65 year olds who face the most pressures in terms of rents and mortgage costs, travel bills etc
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547

    I assume the Russians are running with the line:

    "The OPCW are a joke. How can they say these are Novichok? We have ensured they have never had any samples of the Novichok nerve agents we produce at our secret facility in....

    Oh. Ooops."

    I remember my Facebook filling up with the first part of that spin line when the attack happened.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469
    edited April 12
    Sean_F said:

    twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/984391189469319168
    twitter.com/RTUKnews/status/984390008739115008

    Tin foil hats at the ready...



    Forget Iraq, Blair's worst mistake was making Craig Murray an Ambassador.
    Craig Murray may not have been mad, when he was appointed.
    There is however a certain irony in a man who spent all his time undiplomatically denouncing the government he was accredited to for Fascism, torture, murder and corruption is now a full-blown propagandist for Vladimir Putin.

    He's not likely to see the irony though. That would require self-awareness and intelligence. The cohort for the civil service exam that year must have been really weak if he was at number 3.
  • currystarcurrystar Posts: 787

    Hmmm - Mike writes an entire article about the policy without even considering how much it might cost, and whether there might be a better use for the money.

    To govern is to choose. Is this a good choice, compared with other possible uses for the money?

    Exactly. To me this is a daft proposal, someone has to pay for a bus ride. It cant just be people having free rides
  • RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 331
    If Corbyn thinks the Uber generation want to hang around with bus-people then he's in for a shock.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547
    Sean_F said:

    twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/984391189469319168
    twitter.com/RTUKnews/status/984390008739115008

    Tin foil hats at the ready...



    Forget Iraq, Blair's worst mistake was making Craig Murray an Ambassador.
    Craig Murray may not have been mad, when he was appointed.
    But he is definitely a sandwich short of a picnic these days.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,632

    Novochick or no novochick

    Is that 'independent' enough for you, or are you going to find some other excuse to prevaricate?
    Depends. Do they specifically say Novochick from Russia or not?

    I am in snooker and my fingers tapping my phone is too much noise.

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jezza's only approved newspaper, the Morning Star says this...

    “Today, the pretext for escalating Britain’s military involvement in Syria is that the Assad regime — the internationally recognised, legitimate and elected government in Damascus — is guilty of a poison gas attack on the citizens of Douma. Film of the aftermath, broadcast across the world in recent days, shows a troupe of very camera-conscious young men washing down the victims, all of whom are children, most of them looking more bewildered than wounded or incapacitated, and without a distressed parent or relative in sight.”

    Even by the remarkably low standards of the Morning Star, the bits I have bolded are pretty shocking lies. Do they think anyone with an IQ of more than 4 believes them?

    It's also quite striking that as good Communists they are supporting the corrupt rich rather than the downtrodden poor...
    Scarily people are believing all this misinformation, see the doubts over nerve agent attack, and bizarrely pushing the same agenda as the right wing loons at places like InfoWars.
    But surely - even if people believe the second bit - nobody with access to the internet would accept the first part? It's sheer lunacy to suggest the Ba'ath party is in any way democratic or indeed widely internationally recognised. Most states have broken off diplomatic relations.
    I just don't know anymore...see some posters on here who keep linking to these Fake News websites and it takes 10+ posts from others providing evidence from reputable sources showing that the original link isn't correct, before there is even a partial admittance that perhaps things might not be 100% on the up and up.
    You mean Bloomberg are fake news now.

    Novochick or no Novochick
    What is novochick?
    A younger sexier version of a well known nerve agent of the type .......
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 14,120
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469

    Novochick or no novochick

    Is that 'independent' enough for you, or are you going to find some other excuse to prevaricate?
    Depends. Do they specifically say Novochick from Russia or not?

    I am in snooker and my fingers tapping my phone is too much noise.
    'the OPCW team confirm the findings of the United Kingdom relating to the identity of the toxic chemical used.......[and] notes that the toxic chemical was of high purity [with] almost complete absence of impurities'

    https://e3.365dm.com/18/04/1096x616/skynews-skripal-opcw_4280468.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20180412115458
    skwawkbox is helpfully pushing a new conspiracy theory...

    FOUR CURIOSITIES IN YULIA SKRIPAL’S ‘OFFICIAL’ STATEMENT - It contains a number of ‘curiosities’ that are fuelling public distrust among those who doubt its authenticity

    The InfoWars approach has been imported to the UK.
    You really can't keep away from Skwawkbox can you

    Your definition of fake news is anyone who doesn't agree with FO propaganda isn't it.
    Hi BJO

    Didn't know you played snooker. Do you fancy a match sometime?

    Would probably not be in the next few weeks given work commitments.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,247

    I assume the Russians are running with the line:

    "The OPCW are a joke. How can they say these are Novichok? We have ensured they have never had any samples of the Novichok nerve agents we produce at our secret facility in....

    Oh. Ooops."

    I remember my Facebook filling up with the first part of that spin line when the attack happened.
    Corbyn visits the site of the Salisbury attack, only to be poisoned.

    Dying a little while later, he swiftly arrives at the pearly gates.

    "Jeremy Bernard Corbyn" St Peter recites. "Born, 26 May 1949 in Chippenham. Died, 12 April 2018. Cause of death, accidental poisoning by Russian government".

    "Woah", interjects Jeremy. "You're being a bit hasty there is suggesting my death was *definitely the Russians".
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469
    I'm sure she's wrong. Surely we'd have heard if the buses were being repeatedly hit by trams? The old Elf 'n Safety mob would have been on the case...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547
    Lawyers for Sir Cliff Richard have told the High Court the BBC's coverage of a police raid on the singer's home was a "very serious invasion" of his privacy.

    The BBC is being sued over its footage showing officers searching the star's Berkshire apartment in 2014 after a claim of historical sexual assault.

    Sir Cliff, 77, was not charged with any offence and says he suffered "profound and long-lasting damage".

    The BBC argues its coverage was in the public interest.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43740665

    I can't see this ending well...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 14,120
    ydoethur said:

    I'm sure she's wrong. Surely we'd have heard if the buses were being repeatedly hit by trams? The old Elf 'n Safety mob would have been on the case...
    :lol:
  • Lawyers for Sir Cliff Richard have told the High Court the BBC's coverage of a police raid on the singer's home was a "very serious invasion" of his privacy.

    The BBC is being sued over its footage showing officers searching the star's Berkshire apartment in 2014 after a claim of historical sexual assault.

    Sir Cliff, 77, was not charged with any offence and says he suffered "profound and long-lasting damage".

    The BBC argues its coverage was in the public interest.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43740665

    I can't see this ending well...

    The Bolshevik Broadcasting Corporation are happy to smear innocents with allegations of paedophilia but ignore all the evidence of the paedo under their own house Jimmy Savile.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 1,402

    Lawyers for Sir Cliff Richard have told the High Court the BBC's coverage of a police raid on the singer's home was a "very serious invasion" of his privacy.

    The BBC is being sued over its footage showing officers searching the star's Berkshire apartment in 2014 after a claim of historical sexual assault.

    Sir Cliff, 77, was not charged with any offence and says he suffered "profound and long-lasting damage".

    The BBC argues its coverage was in the public interest.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43740665

    I can't see this ending well...

    For the license fee payers.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,632
    ydoethur said:

    Novochick or no novochick

    Is that 'independent' enough for you, or are you going to find some other excuse to prevaricate?
    Depends. Do they specifically say Novochick from Russia or not?

    I am in snooker and my fingers tapping my phone is too much noise.
    'the OPCW team confirm the findings of the United Kingdom relating to the identity of the toxic chemical used.......[and] notes that the toxic chemical was of high purity [with] almost complete absence of impurities'

    https://e3.365dm.com/18/04/1096x616/skynews-skripal-opcw_4280468.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20180412115458
    skwawkbox is helpfully pushing a new conspiracy theory...

    FOUR CURIOSITIES IN YULIA SKRIPAL’S ‘OFFICIAL’ STATEMENT - It contains a number of ‘curiosities’ that are fuelling public distrust among those who doubt its authenticity

    The InfoWars approach has been imported to the UK.
    You really can't keep away from Skwawkbox can you

    Your definition of fake news is anyone who doesn't agree with FO propaganda isn't it.
    Hi BJO

    Didn't know you played snooker. Do you fancy a match sometime?

    Would probably not be in the next few weeks given work commitments.
    I am at World Qualifiers I used to play but not very well.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547
    Rochdale’s recently resigned council leader is facing a police investigation after an official inquiry concluded that he lied over evidence he gave about child sexual abuse allegations.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/12/resigned-rochdale-council-leader-richard-farnell-lied-to-child-abuse-inquiry
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,632
    ydoethur said:

    I'm sure she's wrong. Surely we'd have heard if the buses were being repeatedly hit by trams? The old Elf 'n Safety mob would have been on the case...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,725
    The bus policy looks superficially attractive but there could be confusion if someone gets on and is told that this is the wrong type of bus for free travel.

    Still it succeeds in casting Corbyn as in favour of the young and the Tories not so may work in the short term. Whether it is a sensible use of money is another matter.

    On Syria, what would be the point of the UK joining any military action and what would be the plan? I hope May does not overplay her hand and I don’t see that there is anything wrong with getting Parliamentary approval first.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,483
    They're right of course. We should just let Assad and Putin murder everyone who opposes them without interference. Then we can have peace.
  • Via another PB

    Nominative Determinism Of The Week: the Sussex policeman working as a prostitute while on sick leave, Detective Constable... Dick Holder.

    https://nypost.com/2018/04/10/cop-named-dick-holder-is-fired-for-moonlighting-as-a-prostitute/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469

    ydoethur said:

    Novochick or no novochick

    Is that 'independent' enough for you, or are you going to find some other excuse to prevaricate?
    Depends. Do they specifically say Novochick from Russia or not?

    I am in snooker and my fingers tapping my phone is too much noise.
    'the OPCW team confirm the findings of the United Kingdom relating to the identity of the toxic chemical used.......[and] notes that the toxic chemical was of high purity [with] almost complete absence of impurities'

    https://e3.365dm.com/18/04/1096x616/skynews-skripal-opcw_4280468.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20180412115458
    skwawkbox is helpfully pushing a new conspiracy theory...

    FOUR CURIOSITIES IN YULIA SKRIPAL’S ‘OFFICIAL’ STATEMENT - It contains a number of ‘curiosities’ that are fuelling public distrust among those who doubt its authenticity

    The InfoWars approach has been imported to the UK.
    You really can't keep away from Skwawkbox can you

    Your definition of fake news is anyone who doesn't agree with FO propaganda isn't it.
    Hi BJO

    Didn't know you played snooker. Do you fancy a match sometime?

    Would probably not be in the next few weeks given work commitments.
    I am at World Qualifiers I used to play but not very well.
    Ah. My misunderstanding.

    Not that I play very well either!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547
    “I’m not one of those people that goes on about the liberal elite in London, but I don’t think he understands what makes the working classes tick outside of London and that is just hardcore industries. We’ve operated at our optimum as people when jobs give us meaning, and in the post-industrial hinterlands, he doesn’t understand that. I remember somebody at a meeting down in south Wales, an old guy, ex-miner, wanted his son to have a proper, real, blue-collar job, and he was saying: ‘What do you expect us to do, Mr Corbyn, make fucking love spoons out of hemp?’ I don’t think Jezza gets it, I don’t think he connects with people on that level, which is part of the reason we’re having political problems in Wales.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/apr/12/manic-street-preachers-jobs-meaning-jeremy-corbyn-doesnt-understand-that-resistance-is-useless
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,500

    Rochdale’s recently resigned council leader is facing a police investigation after an official inquiry concluded that he lied over evidence he gave about child sexual abuse allegations.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/12/resigned-rochdale-council-leader-richard-farnell-lied-to-child-abuse-inquiry

    Labour council leader , Labour.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547
    edited April 12
    Universal Basic Income is clearly not enough...

    Labour’s new policy could be the first step towards a fairer allocation of resources and a tiptoe towards universal basic services

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/12/young-people-free-bus-passes-labour

    I was listening to a podcast the other week talking about UBI and the guests stated that while in favour in theory, in all likelihood by the time it went through the political sausage machine it wouldn't be all benefits replaced by UBI, it would end up with many of the existing benefits + UBI, so totally defeating the object.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,483
    On topic the problem with giving free stuff to people is that eventually someone has to pay for it. No, honestly, they do. Really.

    And even in London there are only so many bankers.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469

    Via another PB

    Nominative Determinism Of The Week: the Sussex policeman working as a prostitute while on sick leave, Detective Constable... Dick Holder.

    https://nypost.com/2018/04/10/cop-named-dick-holder-is-fired-for-moonlighting-as-a-prostitute/

    It gets better:

    'Chief Constable Giles York told the hearing Holder had struggled with “underperformance”'

    I think this has the hallmarks of a cock-up!
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 6,804

    “I’m not one of those people that goes on about the liberal elite in London, but I don’t think he understands what makes the working classes tick outside of London and that is just hardcore industries. We’ve operated at our optimum as people when jobs give us meaning, and in the post-industrial hinterlands, he doesn’t understand that. I remember somebody at a meeting down in south Wales, an old guy, ex-miner, wanted his son to have a proper, real, blue-collar job, and he was saying: ‘What do you expect us to do, Mr Corbyn, make fucking love spoons out of hemp?’ I don’t think Jezza gets it, I don’t think he connects with people on that level, which is part of the reason we’re having political problems in Wales.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/apr/12/manic-street-preachers-jobs-meaning-jeremy-corbyn-doesnt-understand-that-resistance-is-useless

    How come Corbyn did so well in the working-class areas of the North and Wales last year, then?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,500
    Rhubarb said:

    If Corbyn thinks the Uber generation want to hang around with bus-people then he's in for a shock.

    Well quite - autonomous cars will be in before a Maomentum government.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,805
    FPT
    ydoethur said:

    » show previous quotes
    Well, at least we can sure it wasn't the Ayrshire SNP. No turnips in sight.

    ydoethur, Ayrshire is full of them. Novichok would be a soft drink here.
  • TGOHF said:

    Rochdale’s recently resigned council leader is facing a police investigation after an official inquiry concluded that he lied over evidence he gave about child sexual abuse allegations.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/12/resigned-rochdale-council-leader-richard-farnell-lied-to-child-abuse-inquiry

    Labour council leader , Labour.
    All parties implicated though

    The report also criticised Margaret Thatcher’s “remarkable” decision to award a knighthood to the suspected child abuser Cyril Smith. It said the knighthood in 1988 showed the “unwillingness of those at the highest level” to believe his victims.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,805
    TGOHF said:

    But is it more about municipalising buses than helping the young?

    Rumbled.....

    Perhaps an expert on EU laws can clarify if this will constitute state aid ?
    Will be usual Labour , all wind and piss and never happen
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 14,120
    Cyclefree said:

    The bus policy looks superficially attractive but there could be confusion if someone gets on and is told that this is the wrong type of bus for free travel.

    Still it succeeds in casting Corbyn as in favour of the young and the Tories not so may work in the short term. Whether it is a sensible use of money is another matter.

    On Syria, what would be the point of the UK joining any military action and what would be the plan? I hope May does not overplay her hand and I don’t see that there is anything wrong with getting Parliamentary approval first.

    Er, because Parliament wouldn't give approval?

    Anyway, seems Trump is backtracking, probably following some behind the scenes discussions.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547
    TGOHF said:

    Rhubarb said:

    If Corbyn thinks the Uber generation want to hang around with bus-people then he's in for a shock.

    Well quite - autonomous cars will be in before a Maomentum government.
    We won't be having any self-driving anythings if Jezza gets in.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,805
    So no change , just a case of where it came from , not who invented it.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,500

    TGOHF said:

    Rochdale’s recently resigned council leader is facing a police investigation after an official inquiry concluded that he lied over evidence he gave about child sexual abuse allegations.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/12/resigned-rochdale-council-leader-richard-farnell-lied-to-child-abuse-inquiry

    Labour council leader , Labour.
    All parties implicated though

    The report also criticised Margaret Thatcher’s “remarkable” decision to award a knighthood to the suspected child abuser Cyril Smith. It said the knighthood in 1988 showed the “unwillingness of those at the highest level” to believe his victims.
    She perhaps shouldn't have listened to her "experts" ?
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 6,804

    Cyclefree said:

    The bus policy looks superficially attractive but there could be confusion if someone gets on and is told that this is the wrong type of bus for free travel.

    Still it succeeds in casting Corbyn as in favour of the young and the Tories not so may work in the short term. Whether it is a sensible use of money is another matter.

    On Syria, what would be the point of the UK joining any military action and what would be the plan? I hope May does not overplay her hand and I don’t see that there is anything wrong with getting Parliamentary approval first.

    Er, because Parliament wouldn't give approval?
    Isn't this a bit like saying "what was the point in Gordon Brown holding an election in 2010, when he was going to lose it"?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,805
    Yorkcity said:

    jonny83 said:

    So if the young and old get free bus travel what about those in-between?

    The middle always gets squeezed hardest under Labour.

    Londoners at 60 , get free travel .Have a public sector bus services.In the north it is at pension age 66 and rising , with a very limited service in many cases.
    Scotland it is free for all at age 60. Handy for picking up those free prescriptions, even if I have never applied and don't use bus.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,480
    malcolmg said:

    So no change , just a case of where it came from , not who invented it.
    So, give us the complete list of those who we know make Novichoks.

    I'll start you off:

    1. Russia.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 14,120
    Danny565 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    The bus policy looks superficially attractive but there could be confusion if someone gets on and is told that this is the wrong type of bus for free travel.

    Still it succeeds in casting Corbyn as in favour of the young and the Tories not so may work in the short term. Whether it is a sensible use of money is another matter.

    On Syria, what would be the point of the UK joining any military action and what would be the plan? I hope May does not overplay her hand and I don’t see that there is anything wrong with getting Parliamentary approval first.

    Er, because Parliament wouldn't give approval?
    Isn't this a bit like saying "what was the point in Gordon Brown holding an election in 2010, when he was going to lose it"?
    No. There is no rule that says Parliament votes on this kind of thing. Royal prerogative.

    Cameron started a convention, which May could ignore.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 9,725

    Cyclefree said:

    The bus policy looks superficially attractive but there could be confusion if someone gets on and is told that this is the wrong type of bus for free travel.

    Still it succeeds in casting Corbyn as in favour of the young and the Tories not so may work in the short term. Whether it is a sensible use of money is another matter.

    On Syria, what would be the point of the UK joining any military action and what would be the plan? I hope May does not overplay her hand and I don’t see that there is anything wrong with getting Parliamentary approval first.

    Er, because Parliament wouldn't give approval?

    Anyway, seems Trump is backtracking, probably following some behind the scenes discussions.
    If Parliament wouldn’t approve, we shouldn’t be doing it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,340
    edited April 12
    This isn't an area I've looked into deeply, but she might be.

    AIUI the Nottingham tram is losing many millions per year in running costs (citation below), and with the recent western extension, it is important for it to be seen as a success. Therefore price the rides so more people go on t'tram than t'bus, especially as both services probably get council subsidies.

    Then there's the issue of the budget not being infinite, and the money spent subsidising the tram might be coming from services that would otherwise run to settlements away from the tram network.

    Edit: http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/nottingham-tram-operator-records-losses-of-48m-following-network-expansion
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 6,804
    edited April 12
    I can't for the life of me understand what people think a full military campaign in Syria is going to achieve. What can come of it, other than giving ISIS (or something similar) a way back? Are the people who will be killed by Western air strikes somehow more justified than the deaths caused by Assad's bombs?

    It might make us all feel better to feel that we're Doing Something, but sometimes surely we do have to just realise that doing nothing is better than making things worse.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 43,090
    If the US changes its mind on bombing Syria, does May ?
This discussion has been closed.