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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » MEMO to Mr Corbyn: Most GE2017 LAB voters think the Russian Go

SystemSystem Posts: 5,841
edited April 16 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » MEMO to Mr Corbyn: Most GE2017 LAB voters think the Russian Government is a force for evil in the world

We have seen since the general election that there is an increasing divide between the views of team Corbyn and those who voted for the party at the last general election on Brexit. Overwhelmingly LAB GE2017 voters believe that the decision to leave the EU was wrong which appears out of line with the policies being pursued by the opposition front bench under Mr Corbyn.

Read the full story here


«1345

Comments

  • Corbyn is getting flayed alive in the Commons: by his OWN backbenchers.

    And what now of the pb stance on this?!

    https://news.sky.com/story/poll-nearly-half-of-britons-support-uk-taking-part-in-airstrikes-11333862
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 8,298
    2nd like Spurs in the PL......
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 980
    Corbyn won't care. He has Blair's level of righteousness for his own outlook.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 955
    Great news that the Home Office has backed down now in the case of Dr Ong. Their stance was increasingly idiotic but then they had worked for 7 years under a political leader who's sole criterion of a good immigration policy was chuck out as many as the nasty foreigners as you can.

    Rudd is no better.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 13,922
    I feel like a Corbyn in the pocket of Putin would be a fairly effective attack poster. Not sure how many votes would change over it though.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547
    edited April 16
    I think the "assad is a very nice man, he's a doctor", lady needs another posting...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,314

    Corbyn is getting flayed alive in the Commons: by his OWN backbenchers.

    And what now of the pb stance on this?!

    https://news.sky.com/story/poll-nearly-half-of-britons-support-uk-taking-part-in-airstrikes-11333862

    You're looking for 'the' PB stance?
    The PB Tory stance is that there isn't such a thing, only splendidly multifarious, robustly argued opinions.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547
    MaxPB said:

    OMG.

    Also as the son/grandson of Doctors all I can say is Harold Shipman.

    You really need to watch the video of this woman.

    With friends like these..
    She is that mad, she makes Alex Jones look sane....
  • I think the "assad is a very nice man, he's a doctor", lady needs another posting...

    OMG.

    Also as the son/grandson of Doctors all I can say is Harold Shipman.

    You really need to watch the video of this woman.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,483

    Corbyn is getting flayed alive in the Commons: by his OWN backbenchers.

    And what now of the pb stance on this?!

    https://news.sky.com/story/poll-nearly-half-of-britons-support-uk-taking-part-in-airstrikes-11333862

    So they have all resigned the whip and will announce a new grouping tomorrow, yes?

    Perhaps not.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,866
    Never go full Corbynista....
  • On topic with Brexit and the resurgence of the hard unpatriotic left I'm struggling to recognise my country.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469
    It is resssuring that 58% of Labour voters can still see the bleeding obvious regardless of what the Jezaster and some of the weirdos behind him say.

    There is hope for British democracy, if not very much.
  • I think the "assad is a very nice man, he's a doctor", lady needs another posting...

    OMG.

    Also as the son/grandson of Doctors all I can say is Harold Shipman.

    You really need to watch the video of this woman.

    And that Dr. Mengele, he was awfully nice, wasn't he?

    What an absolute zoomer.
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,239

    MaxPB said:

    OMG.

    Also as the son/grandson of Doctors all I can say is Harold Shipman.

    You really need to watch the video of this woman.

    With friends like these..
    She is that mad, she makes Alex Jones look sane....
    And a bunch of Labour MPs at the demo in support of Assad - Williamson, Dent- Coad, etc
  • Oh and Chris Williamson has gone off the reservation which is saying something.



  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547
    edited April 16
    felix said:

    MaxPB said:

    OMG.

    Also as the son/grandson of Doctors all I can say is Harold Shipman.

    You really need to watch the video of this woman.

    With friends like these..
    She is that mad, she makes Alex Jones look sane....
    And a bunch of Labour MPs at the demo in support of Assad - Williamson, Dent- Coad, etc
    Well when your leader suggests that perhaps the chemical attacks were faked....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,483

    I think the "assad is a very nice man, he's a doctor", lady needs another posting...

    OMG.

    Also as the son/grandson of Doctors all I can say is Harold Shipman.

    You really need to watch the video of this woman.

    Acted without the prior consent of Parliament, murdered children with nerve agents and phosphates. Its all a moral equivalence really, isn't it?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469

    I think the "assad is a very nice man, he's a doctor", lady needs another posting...

    OMG.

    Also as the son/grandson of Doctors all I can say is Harold Shipman.

    You really need to watch the video of this woman.

    And that Dr. Mengele, he was awfully nice, wasn't he?

    What an absolute zoomer.
    Robert Ley as well.

    Dr Crippen had his moments too.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547

    Oh and Chris Williamson has gone off the reservation which is saying something.

    twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/985949748690595840

    twitter.com/WikiGuido/status/985950667381592064

    Well when your leader suggests that perhaps the chemical attacks were faked....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469

    On topic with Brexit and the resurgence of the hard unpatriotic left I'm struggling to recognise my country.

    It's OK TSE, majority opinion still opposes pineapple on pizza. All is not yet lost.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,482

    On topic with Brexit and the resurgence of the hard unpatriotic left I'm struggling to recognise my country.

    TSE - there are people on the centre-right who are against the Syria war including myself, so please do not just label this as Corbynista's who are against it. Follow the money and you'll see straight through the official narrative. For a government which has never told us the true reason behind the ongoing Syria conflict, (wishing to build an oil and gas pipeline from Qatar to western Europe to reduce dependence on Russian energy) why you and other cheerleaders on here believe them so unthinkingly is beyond me.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 17,873

    I think the "assad is a very nice man, he's a doctor", lady needs another posting...

    OMG.

    Also as the son/grandson of Doctors all I can say is Harold Shipman.

    You really need to watch the video of this woman.

    Is that Eric Idle?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,483

    I think the "assad is a very nice man, he's a doctor", lady needs another posting...

    OMG.

    Also as the son/grandson of Doctors all I can say is Harold Shipman.

    You really need to watch the video of this woman.

    And that Dr. Mengele, he was awfully nice, wasn't he?

    Not really....
  • ydoethur said:

    On topic with Brexit and the resurgence of the hard unpatriotic left I'm struggling to recognise my country.

    It's OK TSE, majority opinion still opposes pineapple on pizza. All is not yet lost.
    Nah, 53% of voters like pineapple on pizza.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/12/24/reviewing-2017-the-polling-that-made-me-think-53-of-the-electorate-should-be-denied-the-vote/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547
    It really is scary as shit...these nutjobs used to be a tiny minority who people rightly ignored as they ranted about their alternative reality...now they are within striking distance of taking power.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469

    ydoethur said:

    On topic with Brexit and the resurgence of the hard unpatriotic left I'm struggling to recognise my country.

    It's OK TSE, majority opinion still opposes pineapple on pizza. All is not yet lost.
    Nah, 53% of voters like pineapple on pizza.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/12/24/reviewing-2017-the-polling-that-made-me-think-53-of-the-electorate-should-be-denied-the-vote/
    OK, I'm persuaded. We're fucked.
  • ydoethur said:

    On topic with Brexit and the resurgence of the hard unpatriotic left I'm struggling to recognise my country.

    It's OK TSE, majority opinion still opposes pineapple on pizza. All is not yet lost.
    Nah, 53% of voters like pineapple on pizza.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/12/24/reviewing-2017-the-polling-that-made-me-think-53-of-the-electorate-should-be-denied-the-vote/
    Respect my mandate. The people have spoken.

    Also Williamson is quite the idiot, isn't he? Never heard of him until this last year, but he's astonishingly poor.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469

    I think the "assad is a very nice man, he's a doctor", lady needs another posting...

    OMG.

    Also as the son/grandson of Doctors all I can say is Harold Shipman.

    You really need to watch the video of this woman.

    Is that Eric Idle?
    She's definitely over the hill...and far away, intellectually speaking.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 5,206

    I think the "assad is a very nice man, he's a doctor", lady needs another posting...

    OMG.

    Also as the son/grandson of Doctors all I can say is Harold Shipman.

    You really need to watch the video of this woman.

    Is that Eric Idle?
    You’re a very naughty boy...

  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 3,030
    MaxPB said:

    I feel like a Corbyn in the pocket of Putin would be a fairly effective attack poster. Not sure how many votes would change over it though.

    Why not test it in a snap election this June ?
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 3,309

    Oh and Chris Williamson has gone off the reservation which is saying something.



    If true as a report - dear God.

    What are the many many decent Labour MPs doing with these loons in charge? Umunna, Kinnock, Benn, Phillips (who made a good speech today) and many more, I am sure, would be no more comfortable with the likes of Milne prowling about as eminence grise and conceivably with great influence in the future over our foreign policy and security, with Corbyn in charge of keeping us safe, than I am.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547
    welshowl said:

    Oh and Chris Williamson has gone off the reservation which is saying something.



    If true as a report - dear God.

    What are the many many decent Labour MPs doing with these loons in charge? Umunna, Kinnock, Benn, Phillips (who made a good speech today) and many more, I am sure, would be no more comfortable with the likes of Milne prowling about as eminence grise and conceivably with great influence in the future over our foreign policy and security, with Corbyn in charge of keeping us safe, than I am.
    There is video...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,483
    Another unfortunate accident: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43781351

    Being a journalist in Russia is a seriously dangerous occupation. No end of accidents might befall you.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 999
    keep digging jezza
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547
    More useful idiots,

    Church leaders have been slammed for meeting Syrian officials and praising the country a day after the UK launched military strikes against chemical weapons sites.

    A British delegation including Anglican vicars Andrew Ashdown and Giles Fraser and peers Baroness Cox and Lord Dykes have been holding meetings with the Assad regime.

    And they have been tweeting pictures praising how pretty the city is and condemning the airstrikes launched by Britain, the US and France.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5620467/British-church-leaders-slammed-visiting-Syria-talks-Assad-regime.html
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 6,816
    Re the Sky Data posted earlier. They were also the only ones to pretty much show support for or against the strikes level pegging last week - all the others showed a more sceptical attitude to the strikes, so I’d look out for other polls to see what they say.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 8,102
    I'm not looking for a bet, but would anyone like to have a go at working out the probability the Premier League title not being retained for the next eight seasons?

    The reason I ask is that this is ninth season in a row that it has not been retained. This equals the run from 1984-85 to 1992-93, but it is still eight short of the record of 17 set between 1959-60 and 1975-76.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,549

    I think the "assad is a very nice man, he's a doctor", lady needs another posting...

    OMG.

    Also as the son/grandson of Doctors all I can say is Harold Shipman.

    You really need to watch the video of this woman.

    It is the fleck of white spittle in the corner of her mouth that really seals the deal.

    Totally potty
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,482
    Very sensible comments from the Bolivian ambassador to the UN today at 10.30 minutes in on this video:



    He's quite right that international law has been violated. Note May described the action as conforming to 'International norms' ie not International Law. When has it become the international norm to defy international law?

    And even better, have a look at the CNN report at 29 minutes in - a reported smelling the clothes at the alleged site of the chemical weapons attack! How pathetic can you get! If you want a proper chemical weapons attack, look at the coverage of the Sarin attack on the Tokyo underground back in 1995 where no reporters were allowed anywhere near the site, and all the investigators were wearing proper full body chemical protection suits. And the sad thing given the state of mainstream media reporting today is that they think everyone will accept the official narrative unthinkingly.

    Even if we take the Prime Minister at her word that "large part of chemical regime 'destroyed' by missiles" - then how has the bombing destroyed these chemical weapons without risking deadly chemicals being released from the bombs used, potentially killing and maiming the Syrian people unlucky enough to be near these alleged sites? Well predictably there's been no answer on that one......or for that matter any mainstream journalist brave enough to ask the question.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 13,195
    Speaker grants emergency debate on Syria tomorrow.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 3,030
    Good day for May , spoiled by the Windrush generation treatment by the Home Office.Which has led all the news bulletins.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 999
    Bercow coordinating with Labour again
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,866
    hunchman said:

    Very sensible comments from the Bolivian ambassador to the UN today at 10.30 minutes in on this video:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bGyf_aKPhE

    He's quite right that international law has been violated. Note May described the action as conforming to 'International norms' ie not International Law. When has it become the international norm to defy international law?

    Waiting for the investigation? That was blocked by Russia, wasn't it?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,549

    Re the Sky Data posted earlier. They were also the only ones to pretty much show support for or against the strikes level pegging last week - all the others showed a more sceptical attitude to the strikes, so I’d look out for other polls to see what they say.

    Could it just be that as the fuller picture emerges and people are appraised of the level of international support and nature of the legal basis, support for this legitimate action has grown?

    It takes time to educate and inform. Though some would prefer to smear and misdirect.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 64,315
    edited April 16
    I love Matthew Parris even more.

    He described Enoch Powell/The Rivers of Blood speech as a stupid person's idea of someone clever.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 13,195
    Dr Sunil and Dr Andrea too .... :smiley:
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,483
    JackW said:

    Speaker grants emergency debate on Syria tomorrow.

    And what was today? Weird.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,866
    JackW said:

    Dr Sunil and Dr Andrea too .... :smiley:

    *ahem*
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,549
    hunchman said:

    Very sensible comments from the Bolivian ambassador to the UN today at 10.30 minutes in on this video:



    He's quite right that international law has been violated. Note May described the action as conforming to 'International norms' ie not International Law. When has it become the international norm to defy international law?

    And even better, have a look at the CNN report at 29 minutes in - a reported smelling the clothes at the alleged site of the chemical weapons attack! How pathetic can you get! If you want a proper chemical weapons attack, look at the coverage of the Sarin attack on the Tokyo underground back in 1995 where no reporters were allowed anywhere near the site, and all the investigators were wearing proper full body chemical protection suits. And the sad thing given the state of mainstream media reporting today is that they think everyone will accept the official narrative unthinkingly.

    Even if we take the Prime Minister at her word that "large part of chemical regime 'destroyed' by missiles" - then how has the bombing destroyed these chemical weapons without risking deadly chemicals being released from the bombs used, potentially killing and maiming the Syrian people unlucky enough to be near these alleged sites? Well predictably there's been no answer on that one......or for that matter any mainstream journalist brave enough to ask the question.

    The UN isn't the sole arbiter of what constitutes international law and certainly comments from a Bolivian ambassador don't constitute a full legal analysis of what went on
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 3,309
    Yorkcity said:

    Good day for May , spoiled by the Windrush generation treatment by the Home Office.Which has led all the news bulletins.

    Indeed. The Windrush issue is an enormous cock up that needs fixing immediately, generously, and with apology to those wrongly caught up.
  • RobD said:

    JackW said:

    Dr Sunil and Dr Andrea too .... :smiley:

    *ahem*
    We're talking about real doctors, not non medical doctors.

    :lol:
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,549
    DavidL said:

    JackW said:

    Speaker grants emergency debate on Syria tomorrow.

    And what was today? Weird.
    Today was a chance to ask questions and get answers. A debate is a chance to bloviate.

    I would prefer far more extended question sessions and far fewer debates. Most HoC debates achieve very, very little. Forensic questioning can achieve a lot more.
  • If you want your irony meters calibrating.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,866

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    Dr Sunil and Dr Andrea too .... :smiley:

    *ahem*
    We're talking about real doctors, not non medical doctors.

    :lol:
    It's why I typically fly under my other title....
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 6,816

    Re the Sky Data posted earlier. They were also the only ones to pretty much show support for or against the strikes level pegging last week - all the others showed a more sceptical attitude to the strikes, so I’d look out for other polls to see what they say.

    Could it just be that as the fuller picture emerges and people are appraised of the level of international support and nature of the legal basis, support for this legitimate action has grown?

    It takes time to educate and inform. Though some would prefer to smear and misdirect.
    Support could have risen for the strikes, but as I said, I’d wait for other polls to reflect that. At the time when the first YouGov poll came out the Sky Data poll was used as counter to it, until all the other polls came from ComRes, Opinium Survation etc. which to varying degrees showed the same picture as YouGov.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 999
    DavidL said:

    JackW said:

    Speaker grants emergency debate on Syria tomorrow.

    And what was today? Weird.
    We've got an extra debate today on it now.

    The debate tomorrow is just a fatuous jawing about whether the executive needs to go to parliament to be allowed to do anything
  • JackWJackW Posts: 13,195
    Emergency debate on Syria now by acclamation of the HoC
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    Dr Sunil and Dr Andrea too .... :smiley:

    *ahem*
    We're talking about real doctors, not non medical doctors.

    :lol:
    It's why I typically fly under my other title....
    Professor?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,271

    I love Matthew Parris even more.

    He described Enoch Powell/The Rivers of Blood speech as a stupid person's idea of someone clever.

    I have heard that said about Stephen Fry.

    My idea of someone stupid, is someone who nearly drowns swimming the Thames for want of a grasp of the difference between GMT and BST.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,483
    hunchman said:

    Very sensible comments from the Bolivian ambassador to the UN today at 10.30 minutes in on this video:



    He's quite right that international law has been violated. Note May described the action as conforming to 'International norms' ie not International Law. When has it become the international norm to defy international law?

    I was thinking when Moses brought plagues on Egypt for not releasing the Hebrews, but there are probably earlier examples. Where is @MorrisDancer when you need him?

    And, FWIW, IANAE, my understanding is that the components of chemical weapons are not mixed until they are about to be deployed and are much less dangerous in that state.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 13,195
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    Dr Sunil and Dr Andrea too .... :smiley:

    *ahem*
    We're talking about real doctors, not non medical doctors.

    :lol:
    It's why I typically fly under my other title....
    Titles are so overrated .... :sunglasses:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    Dr Sunil and Dr Andrea too .... :smiley:

    *ahem*
    We're talking about real doctors, not non medical doctors.

    :lol:
    The irony being of course that most medics called 'Dr' are not, in fact, real doctors like Sunil and me...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 19,340

    If you want your irony meters calibrating.

    You should always bow to experts in such matters ...
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,482
    RobD said:

    hunchman said:

    Very sensible comments from the Bolivian ambassador to the UN today at 10.30 minutes in on this video:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bGyf_aKPhE

    He's quite right that international law has been violated. Note May described the action as conforming to 'International norms' ie not International Law. When has it become the international norm to defy international law?

    Waiting for the investigation? That was blocked by Russia, wasn't it?
    When the US, France and the UK bombed the alleged sites the day before the OPCW inspectors were going to go there, I don't think we're in any position to lecture the Russians on this?

    And what happened to the inconvenient findings by the independent Swiss laboratory that the nerve agent used was BZ, which fits in with Yulia Skripal's recovery, and the fact that Sergei Skripal was going to be dead within days when it was alleged that military grade Novichok was used. And Russia has never produced BZ nerve agent unlike Porton Down, that couldn't conclusively prove that it was Russia .....because they had no Russian sample of Novichok with which to compare.

    You really couldn't make all this **** up could you!
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,549
    DavidL said:

    hunchman said:

    Very sensible comments from the Bolivian ambassador to the UN today at 10.30 minutes in on this video:



    He's quite right that international law has been violated. Note May described the action as conforming to 'International norms' ie not International Law. When has it become the international norm to defy international law?

    I was thinking when Moses brought plagues on Egypt for not releasing the Hebrews, but there are probably earlier examples. Where is @MorrisDancer when you need him?

    And, FWIW, IANAE, my understanding is that the components of chemical weapons are not mixed until they are about to be deployed and are much less dangerous in that state.
    You share my understanding about the nature of chemical weapons and how they can be destroyed with minimal risk. It was certainly discussed in the press in those terms over the weekend.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,866

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    Dr Sunil and Dr Andrea too .... :smiley:

    *ahem*
    We're talking about real doctors, not non medical doctors.

    :lol:
    It's why I typically fly under my other title....
    Professor?
    A more modest Mr. :p
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 9,478
    hunchman said:

    Very sensible comments from the Bolivian ambassador to the UN today at 10.30 minutes in on this video:



    He's quite right that international law has been violated. Note May described the action as conforming to 'International norms' ie not International Law. When has it become the international norm to defy international law?

    And even better, have a look at the CNN report at 29 minutes in - a reported smelling the clothes at the alleged site of the chemical weapons attack! How pathetic can you get! If you want a proper chemical weapons attack, look at the coverage of the Sarin attack on the Tokyo underground back in 1995 where no reporters were allowed anywhere near the site, and all the investigators were wearing proper full body chemical protection suits. And the sad thing given the state of mainstream media reporting today is that they think everyone will accept the official narrative unthinkingly.

    Even if we take the Prime Minister at her word that "large part of chemical regime 'destroyed' by missiles" - then how has the bombing destroyed these chemical weapons without risking deadly chemicals being released from the bombs used, potentially killing and maiming the Syrian people unlucky enough to be near these alleged sites? Well predictably there's been no answer on that one......or for that matter any mainstream journalist brave enough to ask the question.

    Can you tell us about the Russian equivalent of Companies House; presumably you're all over those files? Might actually be something newsworthy to find there...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,866
    hunchman said:

    RobD said:

    hunchman said:

    Very sensible comments from the Bolivian ambassador to the UN today at 10.30 minutes in on this video:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bGyf_aKPhE

    He's quite right that international law has been violated. Note May described the action as conforming to 'International norms' ie not International Law. When has it become the international norm to defy international law?

    Waiting for the investigation? That was blocked by Russia, wasn't it?
    When the US, France and the UK bombed the alleged sites the day before the OPCW inspectors were going to go there, I don't think we're in any position to lecture the Russians on this?

    And what happened to the inconvenient findings by the independent Swiss laboratory that the nerve agent used was BZ, which fits in with Yulia Skripal's recovery, and the fact that Sergei Skripal was going to be dead within days when it was alleged that military grade Novichok was used. And Russia has never produced BZ nerve agent unlike Porton Down, that couldn't conclusively prove that it was Russia .....because they had no Russian sample of Novichok with which to compare.

    You really couldn't make all this **** up could you!
    There was a tweet earlier suggesting Russia had been to the suspected chemical weapons sites in the days after the attack. Removing evidence before the OPCW inspectors arrived, no doubt.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469
    edited April 16
    Can we please refrain from feeding the paranoid conspiracy theories of Mr Putin's latest bot? With luck, he(?) might give up and go away if we all ignore him.

    It's even less interesting than the endless discussions we had about Brexit last year and that is saying something.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 21,629

    Oh and Chris Williamson has gone off the reservation which is saying something.



    Question for PBers: which Williamson is more dangerous?

    The one with the crazy views, or the one in government?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,549
    hunchman said:

    RobD said:

    hunchman said:

    Very sensible comments from the Bolivian ambassador to the UN today at 10.30 minutes in on this video:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bGyf_aKPhE

    He's quite right that international law has been violated. Note May described the action as conforming to 'International norms' ie not International Law. When has it become the international norm to defy international law?

    Waiting for the investigation? That was blocked by Russia, wasn't it?
    When the US, France and the UK bombed the alleged sites the day before the OPCW inspectors were going to go there, I don't think we're in any position to lecture the Russians on this?

    And what happened to the inconvenient findings by the independent Swiss laboratory that the nerve agent used was BZ, which fits in with Yulia Skripal's recovery, and the fact that Sergei Skripal was going to be dead within days when it was alleged that military grade Novichok was used. And Russia has never produced BZ nerve agent unlike Porton Down, that couldn't conclusively prove that it was Russia .....because they had no Russian sample of Novichok with which to compare.

    You really couldn't make all this **** up could you!
    The primary aim of the OPCW investigation is to gather data from the sites where the weapons were deployed.

    Sites which they are being prevented from accessing by Syria and Russia.

    The only people making stuff up are apologists for these regimes.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,271

    hunchman said:

    Very sensible comments from the Bolivian ambassador to the UN today at 10.30 minutes in on this video:



    He's quite right that international law has been violated. Note May described the action as conforming to 'International norms' ie not International Law. When has it become the international norm to defy international law?

    And even better, have a look at the CNN report at 29 minutes in - a reported smelling the clothes at the alleged site of the chemical weapons attack! How pathetic can you get! If you want a proper chemical weapons attack, look at the coverage of the Sarin attack on the Tokyo underground back in 1995 where no reporters were allowed anywhere near the site, and all the investigators were wearing proper full body chemical protection suits. And the sad thing given the state of mainstream media reporting today is that they think everyone will accept the official narrative unthinkingly.

    Even if we take the Prime Minister at her word that "large part of chemical regime 'destroyed' by missiles" - then how has the bombing destroyed these chemical weapons without risking deadly chemicals being released from the bombs used, potentially killing and maiming the Syrian people unlucky enough to be near these alleged sites? Well predictably there's been no answer on that one......or for that matter any mainstream journalist brave enough to ask the question.

    The UN isn't the sole arbiter of what constitutes international law and certainly comments from a Bolivian ambassador don't constitute a full legal analysis of what went on
    International law is hokum, it's something you make up ad hoc after winning a war as a pretext for getting medieval on the asses of the conquered. Also, I am pretty sure that running your entire national economy on the illegal drugs trade is a breach of it.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,483
    edited April 16
    rcs1000 said:

    Oh and Chris Williamson has gone off the reservation which is saying something.



    Question for PBers: which Williamson is more dangerous?

    The one with the crazy views, or the one in government?
    Tricky....

    Actually, I'm going for the one in government. He can do things. Chris Williamson will always be on the lunatic fringe with no power.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 1,818

    OMG.

    Also as the son/grandson of Doctors all I can say is Harold Shipman.

    You really need to watch the video of this woman.

    To be fair, Dr Shipman was always willing to do housecalls...
  • JackWJackW Posts: 13,195
    rcs1000 said:

    Oh and Chris Williamson has gone off the reservation which is saying something.



    Question for PBers: which Williamson is more dangerous?

    The one with the crazy views, or the one in government?
    Or the one with crazy views in the government ?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,247

    hunchman said:

    RobD said:

    hunchman said:

    Very sensible comments from the Bolivian ambassador to the UN today at 10.30 minutes in on this video:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bGyf_aKPhE

    He's quite right that international law has been violated. Note May described the action as conforming to 'International norms' ie not International Law. When has it become the international norm to defy international law?

    Waiting for the investigation? That was blocked by Russia, wasn't it?
    When the US, France and the UK bombed the alleged sites the day before the OPCW inspectors were going to go there, I don't think we're in any position to lecture the Russians on this?

    And what happened to the inconvenient findings by the independent Swiss laboratory that the nerve agent used was BZ, which fits in with Yulia Skripal's recovery, and the fact that Sergei Skripal was going to be dead within days when it was alleged that military grade Novichok was used. And Russia has never produced BZ nerve agent unlike Porton Down, that couldn't conclusively prove that it was Russia .....because they had no Russian sample of Novichok with which to compare.

    You really couldn't make all this **** up could you!
    The primary aim of the OPCW investigation is to gather data from the sites where the weapons were deployed.

    Sites which they are being prevented from accessing by Syria and Russia.

    The only people making stuff up are apologists for these regimes.
    Hunchman - given the OPCW confirmed that the nerve agent used in Salisbury was Novichock, surely they have be a biased an unreliable source in your eyes. What good could they do in Syria?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 64,315
    edited April 16
    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    Dr Sunil and Dr Andrea too .... :smiley:

    *ahem*
    We're talking about real doctors, not non medical doctors.

    :lol:
    The irony being of course that most medics called 'Dr' are not, in fact, real doctors like Sunil and me...
    When I was working out what degree to choose for university one of the long term routes I looked at was getting a doctorate in history of physics.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469
    rcs1000 said:

    Oh and Chris Williamson has gone off the reservation which is saying something.



    Question for PBers: which Williamson is more dangerous?

    The one with the crazy views, or the one in government?
    The one who looks at hedgehogs, or the one who looks like a hog's head the night Jeremy Corbyn was a guest at the Piers Gaveston society?
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,196

    I think the "assad is a very nice man, he's a doctor", lady needs another posting...

    OMG.

    Also as the son/grandson of Doctors all I can say is Harold Shipman.

    You really need to watch the video of this woman.

    It is the fleck of white spittle in the corner of her mouth that really seals the deal.

    Totally potty
    I assume she's never heard of Josef Mengele.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,469

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    Dr Sunil and Dr Andrea too .... :smiley:

    *ahem*
    We're talking about real doctors, not non medical doctors.

    :lol:
    The irony being of course that most medics called 'Dr' are not, in fact, real doctors like Sunil and me...
    When I was working out what degree to choose for university one of the long term routes I looked at was getting a doctorate in history of physics.
    Which pathway? Physics or history?
  • rcs1000 said:

    Oh and Chris Williamson has gone off the reservation which is saying something.



    Question for PBers: which Williamson is more dangerous?

    The one with the crazy views, or the one in government?
    The one who notionally commands our nuclear subs.

    You know he'll do what he thinks is the best for making him Theresa's successor.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,549
    Ishmael_Z said:

    hunchman said:

    Very sensible comments from the Bolivian ambassador to the UN today at 10.30 minutes in on this video:



    He's quite right that international law has been violated. Note May described the action as conforming to 'International norms' ie not International Law. When has it become the international norm to defy international law?

    And even better, have a look at the CNN report at 29 minutes in - a reported smelling the clothes at the alleged site of the chemical weapons attack! How pathetic can you get! If you want a proper chemical weapons attack, look at the coverage of the Sarin attack on the Tokyo underground back in 1995 where no reporters were allowed anywhere near the site, and all the investigators were wearing proper full body chemical protection suits. And the sad thing given the state of mainstream media reporting today is that they think everyone will accept the official narrative unthinkingly.

    Even if we take the Prime Minister at her word that "large part of chemical regime 'destroyed' by missiles" - then how has the bombing destroyed these chemical weapons without risking deadly chemicals being released from the bombs used, potentially killing and maiming the Syrian people unlucky enough to be near these alleged sites? Well predictably there's been no answer on that one......or for that matter any mainstream journalist brave enough to ask the question.

    The UN isn't the sole arbiter of what constitutes international law and certainly comments from a Bolivian ambassador don't constitute a full legal analysis of what went on
    International law is hokum, it's something you make up ad hoc after winning a war as a pretext for getting medieval on the asses of the conquered. Also, I am pretty sure that running your entire national economy on the illegal drugs trade is a breach of it.
    That is unfair - it is not a fully codified system but there are a whole range of treaties, conventions and rulings by the International Court of Justice which come together to form the basis of what we term International Law.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 10,788

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    Dr Sunil and Dr Andrea too .... :smiley:

    *ahem*
    We're talking about real doctors, not non medical doctors.

    :lol:
    The irony being of course that most medics called 'Dr' are not, in fact, real doctors like Sunil and me...
    When I was working out what degree to choose for university one of the long term routes I looked at was getting a doctorate in history of physics.
    Can cause embarrassment and difficulty for pharmacists who hold doctorates in various subjects.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 19,483
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh and Chris Williamson has gone off the reservation which is saying something.



    Question for PBers: which Williamson is more dangerous?

    The one with the crazy views, or the one in government?
    The one who looks at hedgehogs, or the one who looks like a hog's head the night Jeremy Corbyn was a guest at the Piers Gaveston society?
    I think that there is an argument that having a slightly curious obsession with hedgehogs is different from being an apologist for a mass murderer like Assad (or just a common or garden murderer like Putin). It was weird though.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 10,769
    Will Parliament be voting on Syria tonight/tomorrow?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 64,315
    edited April 16
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    Dr Sunil and Dr Andrea too .... :smiley:

    *ahem*
    We're talking about real doctors, not non medical doctors.

    :lol:
    The irony being of course that most medics called 'Dr' are not, in fact, real doctors like Sunil and me...
    When I was working out what degree to choose for university one of the long term routes I looked at was getting a doctorate in history of physics.
    Which pathway? Physics or history?
    The history way, I was always fascinated by the religious history of the persecution of the likes of Galileo/Copernicus.

    Plus I loved physics too, really proud of my A in A Level physics.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 13,195

    I think the "assad is a very nice man, he's a doctor", lady needs another posting...

    OMG.

    Also as the son/grandson of Doctors all I can say is Harold Shipman.

    You really need to watch the video of this woman.

    It is the fleck of white spittle in the corner of her mouth that really seals the deal.

    Totally potty
    I assume she's never heard of Josef Mengele.
    That's a Jewish conspiracy.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,866
    edited April 16

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    Dr Sunil and Dr Andrea too .... :smiley:

    *ahem*
    We're talking about real doctors, not non medical doctors.

    :lol:
    The irony being of course that most medics called 'Dr' are not, in fact, real doctors like Sunil and me...
    When I was working out what degree to choose for university one of the long term routes I looked at was getting a doctorate in history of physics.
    Which pathway? Physics or history?
    The history way, I was always fascinated by the religious history of the persecution of the likes of Galileo/Copernicus.

    Plus I loved physics too, really proud of my A in A Level physics.
    Ah, now we know where the lewd Heisenberg jokes come from!
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,482
    Mortimer said:

    hunchman said:

    Very sensible comments from the Bolivian ambassador to the UN today at 10.30 minutes in on this video:



    He's quite right that international law has been violated. Note May described the action as conforming to 'International norms' ie not International Law. When has it become the international norm to defy international law?

    And even better, have a look at the CNN report at 29 minutes in - a reported smelling the clothes at the alleged site of the chemical weapons attack! How pathetic can you get! If you want a proper chemical weapons attack, look at the coverage of the Sarin attack on the Tokyo underground back in 1995 where no reporters were allowed anywhere near the site, and all the investigators were wearing proper full body chemical protection suits. And the sad thing given the state of mainstream media reporting today is that they think everyone will accept the official narrative unthinkingly.

    Even if we take the Prime Minister at her word that "large part of chemical regime 'destroyed' by missiles" - then how has the bombing destroyed these chemical weapons without risking deadly chemicals being released from the bombs used, potentially killing and maiming the Syrian people unlucky enough to be near these alleged sites? Well predictably there's been no answer on that one......or for that matter any mainstream journalist brave enough to ask the question.

    Can you tell us about the Russian equivalent of Companies House; presumably you're all over those files? Might actually be something newsworthy to find there...
    That's interesting you say that Mortimer. First you should look where Yukos UK and its subsidiary companies such as Yukos Services were launched out of, and then follow where that leads to - here's a clue, a large island in the eastern Mediterranean.
  • glwglw Posts: 4,211
    edited April 16
    hunchman said:

    And what happened to the inconvenient findings by the independent Swiss laboratory that the nerve agent used was BZ, which fits in with Yulia Skripal's recovery, and the fact that Sergei Skripal was going to be dead within days when it was alleged that military grade Novichok was used. And Russia has never produced BZ nerve agent unlike Porton Down, that couldn't conclusively prove that it was Russia .....because they had no Russian sample of Novichok with which to compare.

    Your last sentence is simply fucking wrong and not even worth debating again.

    As to the rest of it, it seems that there is in fact a good explanation for other agents being found. It looks like the Russians are bullshitting again, by this time omitting some important context.

    Apparently when the OPCW test a sample to identify what it contains they also send some control samples. They don't tell the people testing which sample is which, the OPCW send three (or more) unidentified samples. One is real, one is a false negative (nothing), one is a false positive (a known agent, BZ perhaps in this case as Novichok is only in stockpiles in Russia and Iran). This is in order to ensure the samples are tested fairly and properly. i.e. The lab results aren't simply a fabricated positive or negative result, if done correctly the false negative and false positives will come back as expected.

    So what the Russians are saying is "they found BZ, so it's not Novichok", when in reality the BZ might simply be the false positive control sample, as would be expected. This is part of the testing protocol and irrelevant to the actual real sample result.

    Basically the Russians are now using OPCW procedures to undermine the organisation itself.
  • RobD said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    Dr Sunil and Dr Andrea too .... :smiley:

    *ahem*
    We're talking about real doctors, not non medical doctors.

    :lol:
    The irony being of course that most medics called 'Dr' are not, in fact, real doctors like Sunil and me...
    When I was working out what degree to choose for university one of the long term routes I looked at was getting a doctorate in history of physics.
    Which pathway? Physics or history?
    The history way, I was always fascinated by the religious history of the persecution of the likes of Galileo/Copernicus.

    Plus I loved physics too, really proud of my A in A Level physics.
    Ah, now we know where the lewd Heisenberg jokes come from!
    Just think an entire generation of schoolchildren/studentw could have been educated by me.

    Not sure who dodged a bullet there.

    I realised at an early age I was temperamentally unsuited to be a teach/lecturer.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,423
    Been out to dinner with the lovely lady wife, and just catching up. Mrs May isn’t the best public speaker in the world, and struggles to find her words sometimes when on her feet rather than reading a statement, but her performance in the Commons today was very good indeed, possibly the best I’ve seen her as PM.

    The less said about the apologist for Assad and Putin that was sitting opposite her, the better. Hopefully Labour MPs will take the opportunity to do something about this danger to the country before he gets the chance of power.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,482
    Very telling that not one of you can provide a satisfactory response to my questions on Syria.

    As for Chris Williamson, i hope you all know the real reason why he resigned as the Shadow Fire Minister? And no, don't go looking anywhere in the mainstream press to find out because you simply won't find it.

    Mr Williamson has a number of difficulties, not least his historic association with the UCATT trade union. Once again, follow the money.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 27,547
    edited April 16
    Don't feed the trolls conspiracy loons...
  • How come the government that can oversee that vast conspiracy at Finchley Road which only PBers are aware of can make a complete Horlicks over the Windrush generation?

    I mean Amber Rudd is involved in both isn't she?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 31,866
    hunchman said:

    Very telling that not one of you can provide a satisfactory response to my questions on Syria.

    As for Chris Williamson, i hope you all know the real reason why he resigned as the Shadow Fire Minister? And no, don't go looking anywhere in the mainstream press to find out because you simply won't find it.

    Mr Williamson has a number of difficulties, not least his historic association with the UCATT trade union. Once again, follow the money.

    Is it possible to provide conspiracy theorists such as yourself with satisfactory answers? I doubt it.
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,196
    JackW said:

    I think the "assad is a very nice man, he's a doctor", lady needs another posting...

    OMG.

    Also as the son/grandson of Doctors all I can say is Harold Shipman.

    You really need to watch the video of this woman.

    It is the fleck of white spittle in the corner of her mouth that really seals the deal.

    Totally potty
    I assume she's never heard of Josef Mengele.
    That's a Jewish conspiracy.
    I have a horrible feeling that if you told her that, she'd actually believe you.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,271

    Ishmael_Z said:

    hunchman said:

    Very sensible comments from the Bolivian ambassador to the UN today at 10.30 minutes in on this video:



    He's quite right that international law has been violated. Note May described the action as conforming to 'International norms' ie not International Law. When has it become the international norm to defy international law?

    And even better, have a look at the CNN report at 29 minutes in - a reported smelling the clothes at the alleged site of the chemical weapons attack! How pathetic can you get! If you want a proper chemical weapons attack, look at the coverage of the Sarin attack on the Tokyo underground back in 1995 where no reporters were allowed anywhere near the site, and all the investigators were wearing proper full body chemical protection suits. And the sad thing given the state of mainstream media reporting today is that they think everyone will accept the official narrative unthinkingly.

    Even if we take the Prime Minister at her word that "large part of chemical regime 'destroyed' by missiles" - then how has the bombing destroyed these chemical weapons without risking deadly chemicals being released from the bombs used, potentially killing and maiming the Syrian people unlucky enough to be near these alleged sites? Well predictably there's been no answer on that one......or for that matter any mainstream journalist brave enough to ask the question.

    The UN isn't the sole arbiter of what constitutes international law and certainly comments from a Bolivian ambassador don't constitute a full legal analysis of what went on
    International law is hokum, it's something you make up ad hoc after winning a war as a pretext for getting medieval on the asses of the conquered. Also, I am pretty sure that running your entire national economy on the illegal drugs trade is a breach of it.
    That is unfair - it is not a fully codified system but there are a whole range of treaties, conventions and rulings by the International Court of Justice which come together to form the basis of what we term International Law.
    True, but it lacks the interpretability (by judges and juries) and enforceability (via depriving you of your property and/or liberty) which are key features of real law.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 13,195
    I note Bristol's return to the Aviva Rugby Premiership has prompted them to seek the support of gay hirsute men in the west country. Will other parts of the LGBT community throw their rainbow scatter cushions up in gay abandon ?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43784221
This discussion has been closed.